Spurs vs. Knicks NBA Finals Preview

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily — Spurs vs. Knicks NBA Finals Preview (June 1, 2026)

Hosts: Zena Caida, Esfandiar (“S”) Baraheni, Dave DuFour
Episode Theme: A comprehensive preview of the 2026 NBA Finals between the San Antonio Spurs and the New York Knicks, with deep analysis on matchups, recent history, star power, X-factors, and what each team must do to win. The crew also does a quick post-mortem on the Oklahoma City Thunder and discusses their offseason.

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Episode Overview

The hosts celebrate the start of the NBA Finals, breaking down how both the Spurs and Knicks reached this point, and providing an in-depth look at what to expect from this championship series. The conversation is packed with tactical insight, player focus, and predictions—all from the perspective of seasoned hoops insiders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How the Spurs Reached the Finals (02:35–06:00)

• Victor Wembanyama’s Ascension:
  • Praised for his “inspiring” Game 7 performance against OKC, especially for digging deep in the final moments when “he had zero gas left in the tank, and yet he's selling out on every single possession.” (Dave, 03:24)
  • Late-game example: Contesting a Jared McCain corner three “from half court.” (“He's got that thing that great players always have.” —Dave, 03:11)
• Spurs' Edge: Depth, Wemby's dominance, exploiting OKC's injuries.
• Notable Quote:
  • “One of the best basketball series that I’ve ever gotten to watch, especially since I’ve been covering the NBA now for 10 years.” (Dave, 03:16)

2. Knicks vs. Spurs: Season Series and the NBA Cup (06:00–09:00)

• Split season series:
  • Spurs win in San Antonio on Dec. 31 (“Julian Champagnie went off from three… 11 three-pointers” —Zena, 05:21).
  • Knicks win at Madison Square Garden in March.
• NBA Cup Final as prelude: High stakes, early glimpse at both teams’ makeups.
  • “These are the contenders… the NBA Cup game was indicative of some of what we're about to see in these finals.” (Zena, 07:22)
  • Early-season chemistry, secondary ballhandling: Tyler Kolek’s Cup performance highlighted.

3. Tactical Matchup: Knicks’ Offense vs. Spurs’ Defense (09:00–14:50, 16:16–17:15)

• Who Guards Jalen Brunson?
  • Expect De’Aaron Fox as primary, but “the Knicks are going to hunt the switch… especially Stefan Castle, who gets into a lot of foul trouble.” (Zena, 14:51)
  • Spurs comfortable with switching, but discipline issues with Castle/Vassell could favor NY.
• X-Factor: Carl Anthony Towns as a Hub
  • “He’s fulfilled the promises of the trade… in March opened my eyes to a lot of stuff with the Knicks.” (Dave, 06:21)
• Knicks’ offensive flexibility: “Every single guy on the Knicks can put the ball down, make a read, make a shot… that’s a nice weapon to have, different from OKC.” (S, 08:11)
• Spurs’ challenge: Knicks have “more spacing,” are superior offensively to OKC.
• Key stat: “Knicks have been scoring absurdly well over the last 11 games.” (Dave, 09:00)

4. Wembanyama Containment and Defensive Assignments (18:15–22:58)

• Wemby’s Impact: Not about stopping, it’s about containing.
• Knicks’ Plan:
  • “Start with Cat [Towns],” but S and Zena argue for OG Anunoby based on data:
    • “The guy who has allowed Wemby to score the least in the half court since he’s been drafted is OG Anunoby.” (S, 21:29)
  • Use Cat as helper off-ball (Timberwolves model); conserving his energy for offense if OG is primary.
• What’s key? Make post entries tough, force outside shots, deny Wemby the paint, “wear him down.”

5. Physicality, Star Power & Series Intangibles (27:12–32:37)

• Physicality Matchup:
  • Can Knicks match the “battle-tested” grit Spurs showed vs. OKC?
    • “The Knicks are capable of being able to finesse both offensively and defensively.” (Zena, 29:39)
    • Caution about refereeing, as physical play could lead to “a long night of free throws for the Knicks.” (Dave, 28:33)
• Knicks’ “finesse” and ability to find offense, especially if Spurs’ outside shooting stalls.
• Spurs must “let their defense create their offense” — transition game vital, Spurs need to speed things up, Knicks to “stop it.”
• Notable Quote on Brunson:
  • “Last five minutes of the game… Jalen Brunson transforms into this just… unbelievable knockdown shooter that you just can’t stay in front of.” (Dave, 32:08)

6. How the Finals Could Play Out: Predictions & Role Players (33:10–47:12)

• All hosts pick the Spurs to win:
  • Dave: Spurs in 6 (“Wemby’s writing new rules.” —33:16)
  • Zena: Spurs in 7 (“He took the losses he needs to take… now he can win.” —33:34)
  • S: Spurs in 6, but calls Knicks a legit threat; “Wemby is a factor that they have to solve.” (37:15)
• Emotional side of Wembanyama:
  • “Caring is cool. Apathy is not very fun to root for.” (Dave & S, 35:34)
• Knicks’ depth concern especially if Mitchell Robinson’s hand injury limits his impact.
  • “I trust the Spurs’ big rotation more than the Knicks if Robinson can’t go.” (Zena, 39:24)
• Key role players for series-swinging games:
  • Knicks: Josh Hart (“If he knocks down a few shots, changes the geometry of the court.” —S, 43:10), OG Anunoby (Zena prediction: “30.6 three-pointers OG game.” —42:58), Mikal Bridges as a tertiary option.
  • Spurs: Julian Champagnie (Dave & S: “If his shot is falling, he can win them a game.” —45:28), Keldon Johnson (Zena—rebounding, dirty work), Devin Vassell (S: “If you get 15–20 from him on a given night, you’re probably going to win.” —47:02)
  • Discussion whether Dylan Harper counts as a “role player” or if he’s already a star.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Wemby’s Finals Narrative:
  • “I know that you’re supposed to lose before you win, but I don’t think Wimby is that guy. I think he’s writing new rules.” (Dave, 33:16)
  • “He took the losses he needs to take, okay? And he set them up for himself to lose, so now he can win.” (Zena, 33:34)
• On OG Anunoby’s Defensive Prowess:
  • “Since Wemby was drafted… OG Anunoby has allowed him to score the least in the half court…” (S, 21:29)
• The “Caring is Cool” Discussion:
  • “What makes sports cool is guys caring about it. A player of that magnitude caring… I hope that has a trickle down effect to other guys being willing to show their emotions.” (S, 35:34)
• Role Player X-Factor Framing:
  • “What if this is really just about Champagnie versus Hart scoring totals?” (Dave, 41:54)
• On Knicks’ offensive diversity:
  • “The biggest difference between this Knicks team and the Thunder… is: with Brunson, they can get him peeling off the corner, running a dribble handoff, running off different cuts. It’s a little more diversity for the Spurs to deal with.” (S, 12:57)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:00 – Wembanyama’s Game 7 heroics & “the stuff of greats”
• 06:18 – Breakdown of Spurs/Knicks regular season and NBA Cup clashes
• 09:00 – Knicks’ offensive weapons; Spurs defensive assignments on Brunson
• 14:51 – Foul trouble and Stefan Castle (“Knicks will hunt the switch”)
• 17:14 – Carl Anthony Towns’ impact, foul concerns
• 18:15 – How to “contain” Wembanyama; who guards him?
• 21:29 – OG Anunoby’s advanced stats vs. Wemby (Caitlin Cooper tweet cited)
• 27:12 – “Physicality” debate: can Knicks match what Spurs/Thunder brought?
• 33:10 – Finals predictions: who wins, in how many games, and why?
• 35:34 – “Caring is cool” segment on Wemby’s visible emotions, and why it matters
• 39:24 – Depth questions: Mitchell Robinson injury, Spurs’ bench pieces
• 41:54 – Role player X-factor game (Champagnie vs. Hart, Vassell, Keldon, OG)
• 47:12 – Finals MVP picks: Wemby and the “star power” thesis

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Lightning Round: Thunder’s Offseason Postmortem (49:50–56:53)

• OKC’s Playoff Exit:
  • “Spurs beat them in all aspects and had a little more gas at the end of the tank… more star power.” (Zena, 49:59)
• Roster Decisions:
  • Team options on Hartenstein, Dort, Kenrich Williams. Expect some “salary shedding.”
• Trade Rumors:
  • OKC unlikely to pursue Giannis, more intrigued by Evan Mobley. Discussion on Chet Holmgren's tough Game 7: only 4 points, 2 attempts.
• Draft & Team Development:
  • Thunder have picks 12 & 17; may try to trade up.
  • “This is still a championship-level roster. You don’t need to have a knee-jerk reaction to one series.” (Dave, 52:21)
  • Chet’s future: "He’s 24, these guys usually improve…" but “if you could get Mobley, not against it.” (Dave, 53:47)
• Key Insight:
  • “Every team needs health to make the Finals. They just didn’t have it this year.” (Dave, 54:09)

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Closing Thoughts

• All hosts predict Spurs win (2 in 6, 1 in 7)
• Finals MVP consensus: Victor Wembanyama
• Final Word:
  • “If the Knicks win, it’s because Brunson was awesome; if the Spurs win, it’s because Wemby was awesome. This is what the NBA has needed for a while.” (Dave, 47:21)
• NBA Cup’s rising importance noted: “This is stuff that the NBA should be promoting more—the Knicks are going for the first double.” (Dave, 48:15)

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Listen for:

• The best description of finals stakes, blending tactics and player personalities.
• Data-driven insights about role player impact and nuances of on-court matchups.
• Deep dive into how star power AND emotional leadership (see: Wemby’s “caring”) shape championship runs.

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Transcript

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[Zena Caida]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for June 1, 2026. I'm Zena Caida, joined by Esperahini and Dave DeFore and coming up we are going to be previewing the NBA Finals. Yes, we've officially made it. Plus, we gotta talk about what the Thunder are going to do. Good morning, everyone. What's up, S? What's up, Dave?

[Esper Heaney]

Giddy up.

[Dave DeFore]

We are here. We made it.

[Zena Caida]

Final stretch. Almost there. I was watching Wemby in the game seven, and in that first half, he started tapering off in the second quarter, and I was like, woo, he looks a little tired. And then he got a. Just, I don't know, a boost of energy in that second half. And I think that's what we need to do to get through these next pods because there's a lot coming up between.

[Dave DeFore]

He looked at the end of that game the way I feel sometimes at the end of a week when we've had all these games. But to be. You know, to be honest, it was such an inspiring performance because he's so clearly. And all of these guys, I mean, this. This is one of the best basketball series that. That I've ever gotten to watch, especially since I've been covering the NBA now for 10 years. But Wemby at the end of that game had zero gas left in the tank, and yet he's selling out on every single possession. There was that one corner, three in transition Jared McCain had, and Wemby's at half court when the pass is made and he somehow gets a good contest on it. And I'm thinking to myself, this guy is just. He's got that thing that, that the great players always have. He can dig down a little bit deeper. I think we saw that from Shea in game seven with. With the way that he hit shots. But, man, what a. What a game.

[Esper Heaney]

I kind of want to like. If you guys listen to any of Wemby's postgame press conference, I want to throw the ether beat behind it or like Eye of the Tiger or something. Or the Rocky soundtrack.

[Dave DeFore]

Soundtracks.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah, Rocky soundtrack or something. Just because all of it is like inspirational quotes that you would have on a fridge or something.

[Zena Caida]

You know, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm a little bit afraid now because I feel like every man I've ever dated, including my current fiance, has that Muhammad Ali float, Light of Butterfly. Like that one poster that's got the

[Esper Heaney]

quote where he's underwater, right?

[Zena Caida]

They got that one. Or they got the one where he's looking in the mirror and it's like, how is this in every man's home across the world? It's insane.

[Esper Heaney]

Scarface photo.

[Zena Caida]

It's the same ones. Okay, So I don't Know if we'll. I'm a little bit hesitant on taking Wemby's quotes from that perspective, but yes, you're absolutely right. He was.

[Dave DeFore]

A couple of years from now, people are going to definitely, definitely make fun of that. Right? Like, it's going to be a bit where people are like, wow, this guy's. Yeah.

[Zena Caida]

Well, right now I know that they are very excited for what the spurs just did. Defeating Oklahoma City Thunder 43 in the Western Conference finals. Had a great game seven victory. And the way they did it, they were able to overcome okc. They utilize their depth. They utilized Victor Weyama's complete dominance and they took advantage of some key injuries that OKC had. I think we cannot underestimate that as well. But now their new opponent, the New York Knicks, who they faced off with twice during the regular season and they actually split in those two. December 31st they beat the. Excuse me. Yes, they beat the Knicks in San Antonio. Julian Shampenny went off from three, if you guys remember that he had 11 three pointers in that game. And then they rematched in March of this year and the Knicks won in Madison Square Garden. And they had actually San Antonio came in with a winning streak at that

[Dave DeFore]

game and the Knicks undefeated February.

[Zena Caida]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And then Knicks game was a shocker. And part of it was. And I rewatched that game in preparation for. For this week and you know, it was. I think that was about the time where we were talking about the Knicks needing to change their starting lineup. I think we had just started to really chirp about that and they had this excellent offensive performance against the spurs defense, which we know is incredible and a lot of Carl Anthony Towns stuff. And so I think that like as we talk about this series, like Carl Anthony Towns over the course of this playoffs becomes such an important guy and he's fulfilled the, the promises, I think of the trade for Carl Anthony Towns and he's. We'll get to it. But that, that game in March opened my eyes to a lot of stuff with the Knicks.

[Esper Heaney]

Well, you guys are. You guys are forgetting a game here.

[Zena Caida]

Well, there's. This is. See, I'm trying to set you up, my brother, because there's a game that didn't happen, but did happen.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Zena Caida]

And that's exactly what I was going to ask you about. S is the NBA Cup. Of course, this is the game that I think everyone really looked at and said, okay, these are the contenders. These are the ones, you know, not only between OKC and the spurs, right before they ended up in the NBA. The NBA cup final. That game was, I think, indicative of some of what we're about to see in this final. So what did you take away from the NBA cup matchup between the spurs and the Knicks?

[Esper Heaney]

Well, look, we were all there in Vegas watching these two teams together and I. I think it's great to see the high stakes element and how both teams are able to play when the game matters the most. And of course, it's the NBA Cup. It's really early in the season, but both teams were trying to figure things out to look at the shot making. If you guys remember, Tyler Kolek was a big part of that game.

[Zena Caida]

Y.

[Esper Heaney]

He was really great with his secondary ball handling and everything like that. And now the Knicks obviously have Jose Alvarado and Jordan Clarkson, two guys who can really punch up and provide that for them in this series. I think that will be very important, just secondary ball handling against the spurs team. We saw it for okc. How much not having Jalen Williams and AJ Mitchell really impacted SGA and his ability to create. The Knicks will need to have multiple guys who can make decisions. And truthfully, again, we will get into this in that NBA cup game and in their game on December 31st. A couple of weeks later, we saw some of the. Every single guy on the Knicks can put the ball down on the floor, can make a decision, can make a read, can make a shot. And I think against this spurs team, that's a really nice weapon to have, which is different from what OKC has.

[Dave DeFore]

I was gonna say we just saw okc. They didn't have a second guy, much less third or fourth. And you think about it as you go down the line of Knicks. I mean, Josh Hart can dribble and make decisions for you. I mean, yeah, he's not been shooting well in the playoffs, although he did have that great game against the Cavs. He's shooting like 30% from three in the playoffs. But he could still, you know, if Wemby is going to be guarding him, which is my expectation, and they're sagging off, he can still penetrate and kind of make decisions. And the Knicks are such good cutters that I think that that gives them a slight edge. I mean, their offense is far superior to what the spurs just had to deal with. I mean, the way that they've been scoring over the last 11 games of the playoffs is pretty absurd.

[Zena Caida]

This is a really great starting point because, you know, you've. You've mentioned Josh Hart, you mentioned Jalen Brunson, O.J. anunoby was the leading scorer in that NBA cup game. 28 points, nine rebounds, three assists, five. Three pointers made. There was, there was a great distribution of talent in that NBA cup game for New York. And so let's start from the top. Who is going to be responsible for the Spurs? On the spurs, excuse me, for guarding Jalen Brunson.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, I think if. If the history is an indicator, the. The game they just played in March, they started out with de' Aaron Fox. And I think that, that it's part of it is because of where they're putting other guys on the defense. Right. I mentioned Wemby guarding Josh Hart. I think you're going to have Stefan Castle on Carl Anthony Towns. You know, he's able to just be strong enough that it's not a mismatch. And Darren Fox, I mean, he's so fast and he's so good at getting around screens that I think that, that you can have him on Brunson. But also I, you know, in watching that game, and we didn't see this in the Thunder series, the spurs were willing to switch on Brunson. And so, you know, you bring Carl Anthony Towns up to, to the level to set a screen, and your switch is, you know, Stefan Castle. It's not some big. And so I think that that's where we're going to get to see the real cat and mouse. Some of the stuff that the Knicks did, they like to run this little stacked pick and roll. So it's essentially two screens and you're screening for the screener and you wind up with a switch that you want, but it's, again, it's Stefan Castle or it's Devin Vassell, and I think the spurs are pretty comfortable with any of those guys up top on Brunson. The truth is, all the stuff is going to happen after Brunson gives up the ball. It's Ken, Carl, Anthony Towns create, you know, something out of whatever advantage he has going downhill. But I think that just to start the game, it's going to be Darren Fox straight up on Jalen Brunson. I doubt they double all that much, especially early on. It seemed like even in the Thunder series with Shea, they, they tried to just stay straight up as long as they could. Shay got hot, then they send the double. So I think we'll probably see the same thing with Brunson.

[Esper Heaney]

I was going to say, I think it'll be very similar to what we just saw with Shea. I mean, just coverage wise, I think the spurs are really confident in their point of attack. Defenders guarding Jalen Brunson they should be after. They just really made SGA struggle in that way. Brunson has a very similar game in terms of getting to the mid range area, obviously drawing a bunch of free throws and getting to the free throw line. I think Brunson, for what it's worth is a better and more talented pull up shooter from three, especially compared to sga and that changes. That's like a wrinkle pick and roll wise that I think will add an element for the Knicks compared to the spurs or versus the Thunder.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Esper Heaney]

You look at how they would play drop coverage or really it's going to be forcing Wemby to play a little bit higher at the level in those pick and roll situations. And if it's not Wemby when it's Hart the screener, it's going to be for example, Steph Castle on that switch like you mentioned, Dave, if they're switching that, guess who's another guy coming off of the bench who can switch for you consistently at the point of attack. Dylan Harper.

[Dave DeFore]

Dylan Harper.

[Esper Heaney]

That's the other aspect of this is like the spurs are very comfortable dealing with that one on one coverage against Brunson and like you said, if they decide that he's cooking and they want to get him off the ball, they will do that. Yeah, for what it's worth, we've seen like a lower usage rate for Brunson in these playoffs and he has been off ball more. So I'm curious if they lean into that, if the Knicks lean into that more often and have Cat be the ball handler, have Josh Hart be a ball handler more often. Run those flex flex actions that were really successful against the Hawks and the Sixers. Just give Brunson a different look and a different wrinkle. That's the biggest difference between this Knicks team and how they work Brunson in versus the the Thunder. With Shay it was a lot of like one on one above the break, pick and roll stuff and ISO stuff. And with Brunson they could get him peeling off of the corner. They can get him like running a dribble handoff. They run him off of different cuts and catch and shoot situations. It's a little bit more diversity for the spurs to have to deal with.

[Dave DeFore]

Knicks also have more spacing, right. Even like Josh Hart's the worst shooter that they're going to start and he can sometimes get hot and I think that that that changes the geometry of the court for them. Too. We saw the Spurs. I think one of the things that they were susceptible to against the Thunder was the weak side backdoor cut. And if you can get the ball to Josh Hart and Wimy has to step out to guard, now all of a sudden those are, those are open, especially for Carl Anthony Towns. I mean, he's just going to have the height advantage if he doesn't have the strength advantage over Stefan Castle. So I, I do think that the spurs are going to have a challenge to, to figure out how to guard the Knicks. And I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if the Knicks came out and won game one just because of the, the shock to the system that guarding a team like that is going to, is going to have for, for a young spurs team. I mean, you could not get more different of an offense from the Thunder to, to what the Knicks have. Yeah.

[Zena Caida]

So I'm going to jump in here and go to the point of who's going to guard Brunson. I absolutely think that, you know, Fox will start on him, but I think that the Knicks are going to hunt the switch. They're going to look for Stefan Castle specifically to end up on Brunson because one of the things that we saw in the Thunder series, one of the things that we've seen whenever the Knicks take on the spurs is that Stefan Castle fouls. He gets into a lot of foul trouble because he is so physical and he, he, he yearns to get in your grill and there. And Brunson is incredibly tactful about the way that he can exploit that. And so I imagine, especially if you have a situation where you have Stefan Castle maybe starting on Katie or you know, Devin Vassell starting on Kat, or you have something that's unorthodox in terms of a guard starting on Kat, which we can imagine is going to happen, they're going to hunt that switch all day long and they'll be fine with that, especially if that means that Kat can be backing down Darren Fox in the mid post. Right. Like Mike Brown is just going to be so X's and O's, I think in his approach to take advantage of the fact that Devin Vassell, Stefan Castle, they are not disciplined, even though they're incredibly forceful and they can dictate a point of attack, attacker, offensive player, they're, they aren't necessarily graceful all the time about the way that they use their physicality. And I think that's a really great opportunity for New York to take advantage. Now, Brunson. Oh, go ahead.

[Esper Heaney]

I Just wanted to add to that because I think that's an excellent point. And I also think that's something that will play a part offensively for the spurs, too. We saw Steph Castle, like, his level of aggression offensively, forced turnovers, like he had this run where he was turning the ball over a lot, especially to start this series against the Thunder. I think that's something that can really be a detriment to what they do against this Knicks team, too, because the Knicks have obviously Mikhail Bridges, they have Og Anunoby, they have Josh Hart, all of this length on the wings that can poke out balls, that can dig down on these drives, that can make driving lanes really difficult for you. And I know they just played the Thunder. The Thunder are an incredible defensive team, but specifically when it comes to Steph Castle on offense, how he's able to put his, I guess, imprint on this game, if the drives aren't there for him, I think that's going to be a big factor. Just. That's a really great point defensively. It'll. It'll apply the same offensively for.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, and speaking of foul trouble, Carl Anthony Towns being guarded by Stefan Castle, that's a, That's a. That's an issue.

[Esper Heaney]

That's like a foul trouble. Right.

[Dave DeFore]

How many times is Steph Castle going to. Going to draw a charge.

[Zena Caida]

Yeah. On Carl and that, that 134, 132 game in December, Carl, I think, fouled out. He had six fouls in that game. Like he was in trouble.

[Dave DeFore]

He.

[Zena Caida]

And he got fouls early in the game, which we've seen.

[Esper Heaney]

He did foul up.

[Zena Caida]

Yeah, We've seen Cat, like, get in foul trouble early, have to sit for a quarter or, you know, and seen

[Dave DeFore]

it in these playoffs.

[Zena Caida]

We've seen in these playoffs. Exactly. And so. And what's going to be interesting is, remember during the NBA cup, who was our star player for the Knicks? Of course, we talked about Tyler K. He had five assists and 15 points. He was doing all this thing. But who was the other person? We were like, dang, this dude is doing work. Mitchell Robinson.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah.

[Zena Caida]

15 rebounds. He's got the pinky thing. We'll see what happens, what happens with that.

[Esper Heaney]

But I feel like he'll play, man.

[Zena Caida]

He'll be.

[Dave DeFore]

He's going to play. But what's it going to be like?

[Zena Caida]

Exactly.

[Dave DeFore]

If his hands are his money? This is why I always taught players, never throw a punch. Your hands are your money. Like, that's. It's hard to play basketball with broken hands.

[Zena Caida]

On the bench, you're going to need Mitchell Robinson maybe a little bit more. And that in itself presents a potential defensive issue if the spurs decide to go four small, one big. And let's be real, when Wemby's on the floor and they go four small around them, that's pretty much five smalls, that's just abnormally large. But let's talk about this Wemby aspect and how can the Knicks contain him? Because they always say it's not about stopping Wemby, it's about containing him, minimizing the impact that you can have. And I thought that Jamal Crawford made a really great point going into the second half of game seven, that Wemby only had one assist at that point and he was getting doubled. And he said that that just shows you that he's not getting off the ball sooner and he's not taking advantage of those double teams. I can see the New York Knicks trying to throw a double team or trying to at least dig down who's on the. Who's the primary defender and who do they keep around them to, you know, try and dig in, or who's going to be the loose roaming one. And I feel like it's Mikhail Bridges, could be Josh Hart, but maybe think about this.

[Dave DeFore]

I'm assuming they start with Cat. I mean, you got to start with your biggest guy, right? And Cat's strong enough that he could give him. Give him a really hard time. You know, some of the stuff we saw out of the Thunder where, you know, they were kind of run blocking, you know, like a football block on Wimby to get the lane open. I think we see that the Knicks are really good at switching sides.

[Zena Caida]

New word for moving screen, y'.

[Dave DeFore]

All.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah, top screen, etc. Etc.

[Dave DeFore]

The Knicks are good on offense at switching sides of the ball. You know, getting the ball, hopping across the court, the skip pass and again the swing, swing hit the three like they're good at that. That's the trick against Wimy right now, is that you've got to make your shots. You make your shots.

[Zena Caida]

You.

[Dave DeFore]

He does have to pull out a little bit and guard more, and then you can do that wedge blocking scheme and get to the basket.

[Zena Caida]

A new word again. Wow, this is amazing. Continue.

[Dave DeFore]

You know, just mixing in the football terminology, because that's what we saw, I think, against, you know, in that Thunder, that Thunder series. But like, the. The defensive end is really where you got to neutralize him on offense. It's going to be a lot of. If he's hitting shots. You throw your hands up. I mean, he's, he's shooting 28 footers walking in. I just, those are unguardable shots. He's seven and a half feet tall. You don't want to put him on the line. So, you know, you have to just be careful there. And I think inside what we saw with the Thunder is again, that's another thing that the Knicks can learn from. Don't let them get behind your defense because that's a lob every single time. And just make sure that those, those pickup points, those are way higher than you expect. Do not let him get into the paint and just make every single post entry pass hard. You got to wear him down because that's when he's least effective.

[Esper Heaney]

I'm going to disagree here. I don't think it'll be Carl Anthony Towns. I think Carl will have matchups against Wemby, naturally. It's just there will be switches. There were cross matches that'll happen. You're thinking og it will be OGN

[Zena Caida]

and I think it's OG too.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah, I will. I'll throw out a tweet here from friend of the podcast Caitlin Cooper. She says since Wemby was Drafted, there are 20 players who have defended for at least 100 half court matchups. The players who have tallied the fewest player points per 100 matchups against his primary assignment. Basically, in layman's terms, the guy who has allowed Wemby to score the least in the half court since Wemby has been drafted is OG Anunoby.

[Zena Caida]

Wow.

[Esper Heaney]

That's the guy that's impressive. So I, I really do think that like we saw the Thunder try this with Jalen Williams in game one. J Dub wasn't healthy enough to be that primary defender on Wemby. And OG obviously has a little bit of strength on J Dub, a little bit of just muscle and sheer physicality on him. I think that length is still there. He has a 7:2 wingspan that matches up with Wemby incredibly well. I just think overall, one on one, I can see OG being there and then to the point of cat. You now have him as a helper, right? His size and his wingspan and like his ability to like muck things up will open things up. It reminds me a little bit of, of what the, the cat kind of like the Timberwolves used to do with cats, sometimes as the primary, sometimes helping off the ball when Go Bear was the, the main assignment. So yeah, that's what, that's my pick.

[Dave DeFore]

I Just, I don't know. I prefer OG as the helper personally.

[Esper Heaney]

That is fair.

[Zena Caida]

But you know what?

[Esper Heaney]

It reminds me of options here.

[Dave DeFore]

Right?

[Zena Caida]

It reminds me of what I think the Thunder we're trying to do with Hartenstein as the main defender and Chet and help. Unfortunately, Chet was taken advantage of in help quite a few times and I think the point was Chet is in help. His energy is not consumed by trying to keep up with Wemby. We can reserve all of that for Isaiah Hartenstein. Chet, you take all of that energy that you have now reserved from not having to be the primary defender or you go do something on the offensive end. Unfortunately, we didn't see that happen either in game seven for Chet, but that's going to be the question for Kat. If you're not going to be the primary defender on Wemby, that means everything that you are conserving, you need to be putting out on the offensive end. So we'll see what happens when it comes to that. And we're also going to go see what do we think is going to happen in terms of the awards, what our predictions are, and also, wait, we still have to kind of do a mini postmortem on the Thunder. Coming up after the break,

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[Zena Caida]

Alrighty, we gotta talk a little bit about the vibes going into the to this series and it's going to be informed by some of the things that we saw in the last series. First up, oh our favorite word. Physicality. What will the physicality of this series look like? We feel. I feel like we saw the highest point of physicality between the Thunder and Spurs and now the biggest question is can the Knicks match this physicality that just battled in the last Western Conference finals? Excuse me? I wonder if the Knicks are capable of this version of the spurs physicality that just got battle tested. And s I'm gonna start with you. Do you think that the Knicks are capable of matching it?

[Esper Heaney]

Absolutely. I think when they are at their best, and they are currently at their best, they can match the physicality. And boy, do those wings do a good job of being physical. That's why I think OG Anunoby's a really important part of the series. But like Cat can play physical, maybe to a fault sometimes with the foul baiting and all that stuff. But one thing I will say, spurs fans really hated watching SGA with the, with the free throw calling and all that stuff. Just wait until you see Jalen Brunson.

[Zena Caida]

The king, baby.

[Esper Heaney]

Because there it's, there's more where that came from, you know, so that's going to be a part of the discussion too.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. James Edwards said if Jalen Brunson played on the Thunder, he maybe be the most hated player in the league. We call that crafty when we like the guy. You know what I mean? Jalen Brunson is crafty. First team, they're. They are able to be physical without fouling depending on the referees. And I don't like, I don't. I'm hoping that this is not a referee discourse series, but it's inevitable because if the spurs play against the Knicks the way that they just played against the Thunder, could be a long night of free throws for the New York Knicks. This team is a veteran team that knows how to exploit physicality to their advantage and they are good in turn on the defensive end at being physical without fouling. Now, Mikhail Bridges, we give him a lot of, I think we've given him a hard time about how he avoids contact, but the way that he guarded James Harden in the Eastern Conference finals maxi before. Absolutely. I, I do, I do believe that they can rise to, to meet the same physicality as the Spurs. They just haven't had to yet.

[Zena Caida]

In New York, you know, that craftiness, we call it finesse. Okay. They like, they know how to finesse on the court and that's going to be interesting because the Knicks have a capability of being able to finesse both offensively and defensively. And as, as mentioned, they're doing it at their highest level and they're going to find offense. San Antonio sometimes can stall out when it comes to offense. What are they going to do if they're particularly outside shots don't fall, which we've seen.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. This is where they've got a. Their defense has to create their offense. They want to play faster anyway. That's why they, the, the free throw games are bad for them. That, that game where there were 70 combined free throws, it takes them completely out of the flow of their offense. They're not getting out in a transition and getting the easy buckets that they really rely on. It's similar to last year's Thunder team where if the, if the Knicks do a good job of not having Live ball turnovers. It's going to be a really tough series for the spurs just because their half court offense not nearly as effective as their transition offense or the fast break stuff. And so, you know, they don't get as many lobs in the half court obviously as they do in that semi transition against a scrambled defense. And in this series they're going to have a lot of cross matches, I think. So the transition game is going to be hugely important for the Spurs. And on, on the Converse, the Knicks need to stop it. Like they got to make sure they, they should go. Look at what the Pacers did against the Thunder last year and the way that they were able to stop all those fast break points. And so the, the Knicks again, this is where the being a veteran team,

[Esper Heaney]

they've played a lot of basketball and

[Dave DeFore]

they just, they know how to play different ways. We saw them, you know, they had all that success for six games or seven games with this new CAT offense on the, as a hub on the perimeter. It didn't work against the Cavs and they switch midstream and go back to the old ways and just start cooking again. That, that sort of flexibility comes with that experience. So I think San Antonio, you gotta run, you want to play fast, you gotta keep playing fast. And, and for the Knicks, you gotta stop it.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah. One of the interesting things about the Knicks in this postseason has been how good of a transition defense they've been. They've been fifth in transition defense in the playoffs so far. They've also been second in transition offense. So I'm curious to see whether they will be able to keep up and play as fast as San Antonio does. Because yes, you're right, the spurs want to, want to play as fast as possible. Live ball turnovers, get out and running. But maybe it'll be to the Knicks advantage too. Right.

[Dave DeFore]

Knicks want to play Bass, I think until the last five minutes of the game. And that's when Jaylen Brunson transforms into this just, I don't know, this unbelievable knockdown shooter that you just can't stay in front of. I mean he has something special in that last five minutes of the game. So that this is going to be fun. I think we're going to get a lot of short games actually. Like this is going to feel like a slog or like an old baseball game before they had the pitch clock.

[Zena Caida]

Okay, now let's look into what's going to actually happen. You talk about it being fun. I am excited to see if the New York Knicks come In and steal Game one. Because they've been chilling watching these two teams slug it out. And now they're like, all right, let's take a nice little trip in. They probably came in a day early. They're probably there now getting acclimated. I don't know. But the series tips off in San Antonio first. All right, y', all, how do we think this is going to play out? Seven games. Who wins and how many games?

[Dave DeFore]

As. You got to go first on this one, man.

[Esper Heaney]

What?

[Dave DeFore]

Why? I was waiting for you. All right, all right, I'll do it. I'll do it.

[Esper Heaney]

All right.

[Dave DeFore]

Ah, it's hard because I think this Knicks team is so good. Victor. Women. Yama just feels undeniable. I'm going spurs in six. I know that you're supposed to lose before you win, but I don't think Wimby is that guy. I think he's writing new rules. Spurs in six.

[Zena Caida]

You know what it is? I'm going to go. I'm going to go next, because I'm with you. And I think that the concept of you have to lose before you win occurs to the average person, not to the person that is dribbling up the Song Mountains with Shaolin monks. Not the person that sat in 90 minutes silent meditations, not the person that lost to Team USA and cried for the world to see. Not the person that was bent over his teammates, exasperated in tears and just such happiness having just won the Western Conference finals. That's not the average person. He took the losses he needs to take, okay? And he set them up for himself to lose. He put himself in situations to lose so that he could now win. And I agree with you. I do think, though, it's going to go seven. I think the Knicks are going to push us to seven, and it's going to be the Spurs. The spurs are going to win.

[Esper Heaney]

Wow.

[Zena Caida]

See where you at.

[Esper Heaney]

Wow. Before. Before I give you my prediction, just one more thing on Wemby. I absolutely love how nonchalant doesn't matter anymore. Caring matters. Show your emotions, and showing your emotions as a basketball player matters. And I think it's awesome how outward and just how open he is to showing how emotional he is at any point in time in his career, whether it's losing to Team USA when he was under 18, whether it was the Team USA stuff afterwards in the Olympics, or whether it's the.

[Dave DeFore]

The.

[Esper Heaney]

Honestly, the other times we've seen him lose and be frustrated, not speaking to the media, but also now winning in game seven and showing his emotion in that way, that's what makes sports cool. Guys caring about it and a player of that magnitude caring. I hope that has a trickle down effect to other guys being willing to show their emotion and just care. Caring is cool.

[Dave DeFore]

Apathy is not, not very fun to root for. Yeah, yeah, right. If I care, if I'm rooting from home and I care or seemingly care more about the outcome than you do, that's, that's a problem for your sport. So I agree with you. Yeah.

[Esper Heaney]

I mean look you, you look at like the greatest champions of all time. Like Michael Jordan, some of those iconic

[Dave DeFore]

things on the floor.

[Esper Heaney]

Exactly. He cared. He really cared about.

[Dave DeFore]

I would say that I, I think the NBA guys mostly care. I don't, I think most professional athletes really care. I don't think a lot of them are comfortable showing their emotions out loud because frankly, you think, you look at what happened with Joel Embiid when he cried over a loss. Yeah. And the way that he was vilified and, and picked on by small people. And so, you know, I, I do think more than anything, Wimby's pretty brave for just showing those emotions out loud. I don't think he's, I don't think he is special in that he has them, but maybe he's special for showing him out loud.

[Esper Heaney]

That's a great point.

[Dave DeFore]

And also, hey, this whole spurs organization and I think where the NBA is heading is toward guys like this. It's people who are thoughtful, willing to show their emotions and that they care.

[Esper Heaney]

So, yeah, it's really cool. I just love it. I think that's the only thing that's been in my mind over the last 24 hours. Watching all the content has been just how awesome it's been to have the best player in the world feel that way. I'm going to pick the spurs as well in six. So a clean NBA daily's calling it

[Zena Caida]

for the Spurs, y'.

[Dave DeFore]

All. We gotta walk around New York. You were supposed to split the difference for us.

[Esper Heaney]

Look, I actually really. Before I say why, I really do think the Knicks can win this series. I think they absolutely can win this series. And the reason I say spurs in six is just because Wembanyama is a factor that they have to solve. If game one happens. And I see that there are more problems that the Knicks can pose for Wembanyama than the Thunder did, then I'm very happy to change my prediction. But as we've seen, he's a really hard player to contain. Not just offensively, not Just the three point shooting and the fact that he can catch lobs like anybody else. It's the defense. He takes away an aspect of the sport from you, he removes it from the equation. And I think that's a really hard thing to deal with, especially for a Knicks team that again is good at getting to the paint, good at scoring in the paint. How do you deal with that?

[Dave DeFore]

He guards everything inside 16ft by himself. And they have these defensive guards that are able to chase you around on the perimeter. And part of why they're so good at it is because they've got this guy who's so different. Right. Shea said that yesterday in his. Yeah, the exit interview. He was like, you know, big difference is that guy. And when you get, you know, the two time MVP discussing you in the, in those, you know, you know, you're a major, major piece. I mean this guy is. He's something else. We've never seen anything like it.

[Zena Caida]

The thing that sticks out to me is obviously webanyama is a major factor, but for me, I'm also looking at the depth chart for both of these teams and who what you need in these finals in this moment with Mitchell Robinson being day to day, I'm not too worried about the Knicks guard situation. Landry Shamet comes on the floor, handles the ball pretty well. Jordan Clarkson as well, Miles McBride, like, we know that their guard situation is pretty solid, but when we're looking at past Mitchell Robinson bigs that I really trust for the Knicks tough mode, you

[Esper Heaney]

are not really big. Honestly, not even really a big.

[Dave DeFore]

Definitely not.

[Esper Heaney]

Ariel 40, Huck 40, maybe two minutes total.

[Zena Caida]

Fine. But like, I don't have anyone else that I'm really like, oh yeah, I trust you. So what I'm going to expect because of that is if Mitchell Robinson isn't producing in the way that you would expect him to because of this hand situation, there's going to be a lot of OG at the 5. Right. And so that. And that's going to be a whole different mixture of. While we just gave Knicks a lot of credit for the way they've been able to be flexible and the way they've been able to just, you know, show different faces to go with OG at the 5 for half the time. Right. Or even a third of the time because of the potential injuries, I don't think that that's going to hang up against the spurs, who Luke Cornett has been playing a lot better.

[Esper Heaney]

Chase down Luke.

[Zena Caida]

Right, Chase down Luke. That was a huge block at the end of the game. But guess who else is coming in? Harrison Barnes, who has won a championship, who's got that mentality as well. And I like the way that Keldon Johnson's been playing and Carter Bryant's been playing. These are, these are different quote unquote bigs. And I'm not even saying centers. I'm just talking about bigs that are coming in.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah.

[Zena Caida]

That gives me depth all the way around in a way for the spurs that I don't think the Knicks quite have.

[Dave DeFore]

And I think Luke Cornett is food. If he is in this game and Jalen Bronson's on the court, I think that's when they get into their work matchup hunting.

[Zena Caida]

But that's, but that's not what I'm. That's not necessarily what I'm looking at.

[Dave DeFore]

I know what you mean, though. You got to have someone who can rebound. Yeah, yeah. He's huge.

[Zena Caida]

I'm not looking at. When he's on. Yeah, agreed. I particularly am looking at when you put the second lineup out on the floor. Both starters, starting groups need a break, need a rest. And you specifically put out. I trust Luke Cornett and there's core of fours and fives and wings for the spurs than I do the rest of the crew for the Knicks. And that's just.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, I agree with you there.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah, I agree. I also like role player wise, I will say, even outside of the depth, like there's four guys outside of the stars. For the spurs, it's Devin Vassell, it's Julian Champagne, it's de' Aaron Fox, it's Steph Cast. And then for The Knicks, it's OG Anunoby, it's Josh Hart, it's Mikhail Bridges, it's Deuce McBride who hits more shots. It's a make or miss league. And like especially Josh Hart, especially Julian Champeny. We've seen when those two guys can knock down shots like Champagne over the last couple games in game six and game seven was massive for the Spurs. Right. If that shot making isn't there big questions.

[Dave DeFore]

What if this is really just about Champagne versus Hart scoring totals? You know what I mean? It could be like that.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Again, I'm not writing off the Knicks when I say spurs and six. I think that the Knicks could win.

[Zena Caida]

Yeah, it could.

[Esper Heaney]

It could be.

[Dave DeFore]

I also wait.

[Esper Heaney]

I think it could be easily Knicks and six.

[Zena Caida]

Let me ask you a question.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Zena Caida]

Because I've, I've liked this game since we, we played it a while ago. We're gonna do it for the spurs we're gonna do it for the Knicks, who we know for the Knicks. Let's start with the Knicks. You're gonna get some Jalen Brunson games. Gonna get some cat games.

[Esper Heaney]

Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

[Zena Caida]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

They're gonna have a game where they hit 20 some odd threes, right?

[Zena Caida]

Who is gonna give you that game that takes you over the edge? Is it gonna be og? Is it gonna be Mikhail Bridges? Is it gonna be Josh Hart because all three are capable or is it gonna be some random person?

[Dave DeFore]

I think it's gonna have to be Josh Hart. I think Josh Hart's gonna be the guy who they're gonna dare to beat him just like Alex Caruso.

[Zena Caida]

It's going to be very similar OG game. I'm calling a 30.6 three pointers OG game.

[Dave DeFore]

OG might just do that anyway, you know what I mean? I think that's part of their game. Yeah.

[Zena Caida]

Okay. That's where you at with this. The one, the role player that's going to make this big impact game and change this series for the Knicks.

[Esper Heaney]

If it's for the Knicks, it's Josh Hart. I agree, like he's shooting 30% from the playoffs, right? From three in the playoffs. But he shot 36% against the Cavs in the Eastern Conference finals. So maybe he's starting to figure it out a little bit more if he can knock down two or three threes a game. That does change the shape of the spurs defense a little bit. Makes it a little bit harder for them to guard this five out unit for the Knicks that can just shoot from anywhere. So yes, it's Josh Hart, but like if Mikhail Bridges is confident and giving you 20 a night and you know that guy that you spent five first round picks on is actually giving you the 20 points that you consistently need every single in this series. That also changes the complexion of this because now you have a tertiary off option that you can go to very consistently. So I don't know, I feel like

[Zena Caida]

we're going to start calling this the Alex Caruso.

[Esper Heaney]

The Alex Caruso because that was, that

[Zena Caida]

was the guy that kept the OKC in it for several games. Okay. For the spurs, who's a role player that's going to have that big game. We're going to have the biggest impact. And I think it's Dylan Harper.

[Dave DeFore]

Dylan Harper's a star. I think we just gotta, we gotta just start thinking about this the right way, right?

[Esper Heaney]

Like he is a star.

[Dave DeFore]

You watch the way he, he plays that scoop layup that he hit. In game seven, the big three.

[Esper Heaney]

In game seven, he put them up.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, he just, he's just got something about him where he. You can't speed him up and he can, he can play in so many different ways. So I, I don't know if we could think about him as a role player because they don't beat the Thunder if he's not a star in that series. I mean. And so when I'm thinking about role players for, for the spurs, obviously Julian Champagne is like the first guy that pops up because he is going to get shots. He is a good shooter but can be streaky and we saw it. He had a huge game seven in a series where he looked oftentimes unplayable. Similar, similar vibe. Right. Like with Josh Hart where it's like, hey, if you're not going to take shots, you can't play and if you don't make them at a certain point, we got to think about putting you on the bench. I think Champagne is going to be in that same situation. He's going to have to make shots because of the Spurs. Like who is the ball going to find for an open look? It's going to be Champagne.

[Zena Caida]

If we're not doing Dylan, then I'm going to switch mine to Keldon Johnson. They're going to need a big, you know, tons of rebounds. Being able to hit the shots that come off the sprays or just in the dunker spot. Getting those oboards and get, you know, getting those put backs. Yeah, Keldon Johnson has a big game just kind of flying under the radar and just doing cleanup work. I think that could be huge off of. You could do that 20 point, 21 point game. He had that game against Minnesota in game two. And yeah, anyhow, that's who I'll. I'll change my. To come.

[Dave DeFore]

That's a good call. They need, they need him to have a good game or two in the series.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah, I'll just say I think Devin Vassell has been so important to the spurs basically all playoff run and the combination of like secondary defensive playmaking. Like you guys remember that big block that he had on Chet Holmgren, but also knocking down his threes consistently. Being another guy who can create a shots very similar to Mikhail Bridges for the Knicks in the sense that if you get like 15 to 20 points from Devin Vassell on any given night, you're probably going to win that game just because like having again a tertiary guy to go to consistently to score. That's the thing that's going to be the. The difference maker for you. So I agree that champagne is going to be important. I think Keldon Johnson is going to be important. That's why you could have voted for any of these guys for like the six man of the year award. But it's. I think Vassell will be that other factor for them. That trio really just needs to knock down their shots consistently.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Zena Caida]

Okay. So we're all saying Spurs. We've got some different answers on the role players. I like that MVP feels obvious.

[Esper Heaney]

I would even like that spurs and six man.

[Zena Caida]

Yeah.

[Esper Heaney]

You know.

[Zena Caida]

Yeah. Okay. Obvious. Victor Webanyama.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Zena Caida]

For finals mvp. Okay.

[Dave DeFore]

It's a star series. You know, I think if the Knicks win, it's because Jalen Brunson was awesome and spurs win is because Victory Victor women Yama was awesome. And frankly, like, this is kind of what the NBA has needed, I think for a while.

[Zena Caida]

What I love is Victor Webanyama started that Western Conference final series having to watch Shea Gildrich Alexander win the MVP award for the regular season and then he walks away with the Western Conference finals mvp. Well, guess what? He has another opportunity to take a trophy in front of someone that got a trophy in the NBA cup with the New York Knicks and the way they were waving that thing around in Vegas. So that would be very interesting to watch. If he happens to do it again. Should they bring the banner?

[Dave DeFore]

Hang the banner. Oh, that's awesome.

[Esper Heaney]

You know, James Dolan has to do the funniest thing.

[Dave DeFore]

Andrew talked about this on our stream last night after Game 7. The NBA has not promoted the fact that the Knicks are going for the first double.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dave DeFore]

Nearly enough. Yeah, nearly enough.

[Zena Caida]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

The fact that. That three quarters of the NBA cup final four were in the final four of the NBA. I mean, this is stuff that I

[Zena Caida]

think that they on the WNBA side, that's been factual too. That's happened as well. What do you know are that people that are ending up in the WNBA Commissioners cup are ending up in the last four spots.

[Dave DeFore]

They've been through the fire already, Z. The fire of the NBA Cup.

[Zena Caida]

There's nothing like it.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zena Caida]

Okay, let's close this out really quickly. Okay. See Thunder close your season. Every time I was watching the game and I'm like yelling at my screen. Do y' all know y' all have three minutes until the NBA Finals? Give it your all. And ultimately it just wasn't enough. And Shay Gildas Alexander said this after the game that they didn't play well enough and Spurs Beat them in all aspects and had a little bit more gas at the end of the tank. And there was particularly more star power on the spurs side of things. So now the question is, is what do you do to get another star or to get better star power in OKC in this off season? Some team, some players have some team options and Shay said that he is going to allow the best GM in the league to do his job. He's not going to comment and have any input on what Sam Presti decides to do.

[Dave DeFore]

Probably the right call. That's it.

[Zena Caida]

Right. Case in Wallace has a team option.

[Esper Heaney]

Case is extension eligible. Yeah. So Isaiah Hartenstein has a team option for 28 and a half million dollars. Lou Dort has a team option for 17 and a half million dollars. Kenrich Williams has a team option for about $7 million. It's I guarantee you that the Thunder will be shedding salary this summer some way.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Esper Heaney]

And somehow I think that they will resign Isaiah Hartenstein on like a shorter deal or less value deal wise, but long term contract. It does feel like we've seen the last of Lou Dort on this Oklahoma City Thunder team. We'll see.

[Dave DeFore]

We'll see.

[Zena Caida]

Yes.

[Dave DeFore]

Seven when he probably shouldn't even have played.

[Esper Heaney]

Yeah, I agree with you. So I like personalities and everything. Maybe they just prioritize how important he is to them, culture wise, I don't know. But they do have a lot of options. They, they might end up trading an Isaiah Joe or Aaron Wiggins to again shed more salary. They have two picks in the top 20 of this NBA draft in the 12th pick and the 17th pick. Do they use that to move up? I would love for them to try and move up. I mean they have what it takes to try and go out and get another young, talented piece to add to this group. I think that would be very interesting. Adai Mara is a guy that I think would make sense for them in the draft if they do, you know, trade up. But then everybody brings up the big stuff, right. Do they go for Giannis, do they go for another player that might be out there. Is there a big difference maker for them to maybe level the playing field against the Spurs? I would personally I would argue that because they weren't healthy because they didn't have Jalen Williams for most of the season and most of this series and AJ Mitchell that the playing field is actually more level than you would think.

[Dave DeFore]

I agree.

[Esper Heaney]

They could have won this series if those guys were healthy.

[Dave DeFore]

They nearly did. They nearly got those guys. Yeah, it Was three, two.

[Esper Heaney]

Right.

[Zena Caida]

So Sam Amek did report that the Thunder are allegedly not interested in Giannis, but they might be interested in Evan Mobley and Dave, when you think about Chet ultimately having a no show game in game seven, four points. I mean two field goal attempts.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, two attempts.

[Zena Caida]

That's, that's tough. When you think about what OKC needed and what they needed in general throughout this series, some outside shooting, et cetera, what do you think are the biggest missing pieces for OKC to get back into the championship seat?

[Dave DeFore]

Well, listen, I think that the health is huge. Not having your second best player in Jalen Williams and then AJ Mitchell, who became probably their fourth most important player by the end of the season and was a perfect complement to Shay when they, when he was in the starting lineup. I thought, I think that's the biggest thing is can you, can you be healthy? Can we just get all these guys back? And I, I'm with you as I don't think you should have a knee jerk reaction to one series. Even Chet completely getting dominated and, and no showing for this series. Even in spite of the fact that the Thunder are going to have to now go through the San Antonio spurs and Victor Women Yama to win another title. This is still a championship level roster. Chad was an all NBA third team this year. He's an all star. I mean this is just not. He's 24 years old. These guys usually improve, they usually get better. They usually, you know, they figure stuff out over the summer especially. So I'm not willing to write them off. And also it seems like it would be a terrible time if you were going to trade chat. It feels like the value is about as low as it could get. That being said, if you could get Evan Mobley, I'm not against that. You know, I think he fits better than Giannis would. His ability to shoot is one thing. I mean Giannis is just not going to be any sort of a three

[Esper Heaney]

point theoretical shooting for Mobley.

[Dave DeFore]

But it's better than theoretical. But I think that with Shay, if you're playing with Shay and you're playing with A.J. mitchell and you're playing with J Dub that you're the, you're the guy that's going to be wide open if you're Evan Mobley like this is. Chet benefited from this. But once you get into the playoffs, Chet shots way too slow. He wasn't able to get it off and obviously there was a whole aggression thing with him that was missing which we've talked about with Evan Mobley from time to time.

[Zena Caida]

That's true.

[Dave DeFore]

There is no just obvious solution for them and they have to be very careful about their salaries and stuff. They're starting to get expensive now. S kind of alluded to that with needing to shed some stuff this summer. But I don't see any reason why you can't just do what the Thunder have done. Yeah. Use these picks, trade these picks, maybe consolidate to get a higher pick or a young, high level role player that is able to come fit a lot. Jared McCain. You know, and that's the other thing. They're going to have a full season of Jared McCain. I think that what he brings to the table for them, that movement, shooting, the ability to be a knockdown guy, I think that helps. They probably need to go out and get another shooter. Yeah. And, and other than that, I just don't think they've got a lot to do. They're going to have a lot of administrative stuff on the for the accountants to figure out. But this is a, this is a really great basketball team. Every team needs health to make the finals. Every single team. And they just didn't have it this year. Yeah.

[Esper Heaney]

And by the way, like you, you just mentioned like, you know, they're going to have to bump up against the Spurs. That's not even a given. You know, like yeah, the spurs could also get, you know, got knock on wood. But like that's just the part of what the NBA is now. We said the same thing about the Celtics and Nuggets and it's just the inevitability of some of these teams isn't necessarily there because of how incredibly injured teams can become. Now the other aspect is, and I know we're kind of getting into the trade weeds here, I would love for them to make a godfather offer to get into the top four of this draft because you talk about how expensive they are. A great way to make it easier for them to be inexpensive is get an incredible rookie on his rookie scale contract to add to this group. So imagine if there's anything that they

[Dave DeFore]

have that outside of trading Chat. I mean if you're telling me chat 1217, some future first that you've got

[Esper Heaney]

laying around like the Memphis Grizzlies for

[Dave DeFore]

the third pick, access to the, to the whitewater rafting facility there in Oklahoma City.

[Esper Heaney]

Hey, it's an Olympic facility now.

[Dave DeFore]

Season tickets to the OU softball games. Like how much stuff are you willing to give up to get into top four? These are foundational pieces potentially in the top four. Yeah, that's expensive. And especially now because this might be the last year that bad teams can even do it. The lottery odds changed everything. These are now very valuable.

[Zena Caida]

So now if you're someone like me, that's just like lottery and draft and Godfather offers, you're like, don't know anything about that. But I like basketball. Yeah, just keep it locked to the NBA Daily because we'll be covering all of that this summer and making sure that you understand what's coming up in this draft and why people were tanking and why it was such a big deal that lottery reform was necessary and all of the above.

[Esper Heaney]

It wasn't necessary. Wasn't necessary for that until I died.

[Zena Caida]

All right, well, see, this is what I'm talking about, guys. This, this kind of debate, this type of talk, this is what you're going to get here at the NBA Daily. But for now, we appreciate you tuning in, getting a little bit of a preview of this upcoming series between the New York Knicks and the San Antonio spurs, which kicks off on June 3rd. We will be in the building getting some live takes right after the game and ensure that you are subscribed, locked in wherever you are listening so you don't miss out on these particular episodes because they're we're closing out strong, y'.

[Monday.com Announcer]

All.

[Zena Caida]

We're closing out strong. All right, on behalf of Dave DeFore and Esper Heaney, I'm Zena K. Thanking you for listening and waking up with us. Please enjoy your day. Bye.

[Dave DeFore]

Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe or Follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it, drop a like, leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us.

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