Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: Steph Curry over LeBron? | Top 25 NBA players of the 21st century

Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Fred Katz, Esperance A Henny

Episode Overview

This episode dives into The Athletic’s just-released list of the Top 25 NBA Players of the 21st Century (since 2000), sparking debate over player rankings, legacies, and the criteria used for selection. The hosts debate the most contentious points at the top of the list—particularly Steph Curry vs. LeBron James—ponder the placement of modern stars like Nikola Jokic and Luka Dončić, dissect the ongoing point guard debates, and address overlooked greats and honorable mentions.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Top 5 Players of the 21st Century

• List Order:
  1. LeBron James
  2. Steph Curry
  3. Tim Duncan
  4. Kobe Bryant
  5. Nikola Jokic
     (02:30)
• Curry vs. LeBron Debate:
  • Esperance: Puts Curry ahead of LeBron, citing Curry’s “evolution of the sport at every level,” his offensive gravity, and the fear he instills in defenses. Emphasizes Curry’s revolutionary impact:

    “He caused an evolution of the sport at every single level. And he’s the most dangerous person to ever step on an NBA basketball court ever.” (03:04 - Esperance)

  • Fred’s Rebuttal: Fiercely argues LeBron is #1, citing his longevity, all-around dominance, and ability to exceed the "chosen one" hype:

    “LeBron is one of the two best players of all time, maybe the best player of all time… Certainly has done it in terms of longevity. He is the best player ever to touch a basketball.” (04:39 - Fred)

  • Dave: Highlights that no player has ever met and exceeded such high expectations from day one:

    “He’s the chosen one and somehow… became the one or two greatest players of all time… that’s something.” (06:56 - Dave)

2. Peak vs. Longevity, and Defense

• Hosts agree: LeBron’s Defense in Miami and two-way play is unmatched among modern stars:

  “Prime LeBron defensively was ridiculous. Was an all-defensive caliber guy. Steph is solid, sure, …not as good of a rebounder as LeBron.” (06:30 - Fred)

3. Kobe vs. Jokic for Spots 4 and 5

• Kobe gets the nod for longevity and championships:

  “Jokic, when he continues to do this for more time… then, Kobe gets that mantle.” (09:45 - Fred)

• Jokic’s Offense: Hosts acknowledge Jokic's historic offensive peak, but ring counts still sway the argument for now:

  “The difference… is the ring, kind of winning it. At some point it has to be more than just putting up the triple doubles and winning the MVPs.” (10:30 - Esperance)

4. How Many Rings Can Jokic Win?

• Nuggets’ Contest Window:

  “I think he can win this year. I think the Nuggets are poised to try and win this year… this is a very good opportunity.” (11:34 - Dave)

• Thunder and Parity:

  “Denver… fought like hell against Oklahoma City last year, gave them the toughest time during their entire playoff run…” (12:14 - Fred)

5. Point Guards: Ranking Russ, Paul, Nash, Harden

• Russell Westbrook at 16 sparks debate about greatness vs. divisiveness:

  “I think probably no one is happy with Russ being at 16, which is exactly the way it should be…” (18:10 - Fred) “He’s probably the best rebounding guard of all time… one of the best energy players of all time.” (18:57 - Fred)

• Chris Paul (13), Steve Nash (15), James Harden (added to discussion):
  • Peak vs. Longevity:

    “If you go peak for peak, you could argue James Harden had the highest peak…” (20:02 - Dave)
    “Longevity, and I would probably say Chris Paul…” (20:36 - Dave)

  • Steve Nash’s MVPs and Influence:

    “One of the things I see too often is people crapping on Steve Nash’s two MVPs… He changed the league.” (22:00, 22:54 - Fred) “If they name something after you… you’ve done it.” (23:18 - Esperance)

• Allen Iverson’s Poetic Placement Behind Westbrook:

  “I’ve always thought of Westbrook as kind of the Iverson of his generation…” (23:38 - Fred) “Probably no one defines [‘go get your own bucket’ basketball] more than Allen Iverson…” (24:10 - Dave)

6. Modern Superstars: Luka Doncic vs. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA)

• Shea at 25, Luka at 19:
  Hosts challenge the ranking, noting SGA’s historic 2024–25 MVP, ring, scoring title and two-way play against Luka’s cumulative All-NBAs and playoff heroics.

  “Luka has not had a season like SGA had last year… basically a clean sweep for Shea. A perfect season in all regards…” (26:03 - Dave) “Shea’s such a good defender that I think it pushes him a little bit over the top…” (27:50 - Fred)

• Fred’s Admission:

  “You had Luka Doncic at 19, and you did not rank Shea in your top 25.”
  “If I’m being honest, that just sounds like a royal mess up.” (29:12 - Dave & Fred)

7. Honorable Mentions, Near Misses & Underappreciated Stars

• Draymond Green at 27:

  “To me, we left him off. Guys, this is the greatest defender of his generation… another person who caused an evolution in the sport…” (31:53 - Esperance)

• Other names discussed: Tracy McGrady, Manu Ginobili ("talent-wise, you could argue him over Melo"), Pau Gasol, Vince Carter (received the last vote):

  “Vince Carter was phenomenal… put aside the fact he was a legit superstar… and later became an awesome late career role player…” (34:05, 34:39 - Fred) “The ability to have that sort of awareness and to be able to adjust is very rare in human beings—not just in basketball players.” (36:30 - Fred)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments (by Timestamp)

• Curry vs. LeBron, Fear Factor:

  “You have to guard him 94 feet… defense is running scared… Steph Curry just puts the fear of everything in you.” (03:04 - Esperance)

• Fred’s LeBron Defense:

  “You have not seen fear or danger until you see my reaction to you not having LeBron number one on this list…” (03:55 - Fred)

• On Kobe vs. Jokic:

  “Peak for peak, you could argue that Jokic… has been better than Kobe Bryant’s peak. But, defense matters.” (09:45 - Dave)

• On Steve Nash’s Place in History:

  “The Nash dribble… has changed basketball at every single level because keeping your dribble alive is super important.” (23:18 - Esperance)

• Comparing Westbrook & Iverson:

  “I’ve always thought of Westbrook as kind of the Iverson of his generation… lower efficiency guard, who is so much better than just the efficiency says…” (23:38 - Fred)

• Luka vs. Shea, Honesty in Rankings:

  “If I’m being honest, that just sounds like a royal mess up.” (29:20 - Fred)

• On aging gracefully (Vince Carter):

  “The ability to have that sort of awareness and to be able to adjust is very rare in human beings.” (36:30 - Fred)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:48 — Introduction & purpose of episode
• 02:29 — Reveal of Top 5 players (LeBron, Steph, Duncan, Kobe, Jokic)
• 03:04-06:49 — Curry vs. LeBron debate
• 07:20-10:30 — Kobe vs. Jokic for top 5; championship context
• 11:34-12:59 — Jokic’s title window, parity conversation
• 12:59-18:10 — Point guard segment: Russ, Paul, Nash, Harden
• 18:10-20:54 — Fixing Russ’ ranking, polarizing player debate
• 20:54-24:52 — Peak vs. longevity for point guards, Nash’s MVP legacy
• 24:52-25:31 — Comparing Iverson & Westbrook, context of past eras
• 25:53-29:14 — Luka vs. SGA, modern superstars and ranking challenges
• 31:53-33:41 — Draymond Green as a snub, Manu Ginobili’s underrated greatness
• 34:00-37:33 — Vince Carter, aging gracefully, late-career transformations
• 37:39-38:02 — MVPs that made Top 25 without winning MVP & wrap-up remarks

Conclusion

This lively, insightful episode showcases the passion and nuance behind player ranking debates, reflecting on how legacies are shaped by not just stats and rings but by impact, context, and even personality. The hosts are candid about their biases, hiccups in voting, and the inherent challenges in comparing eras and careers. The episode is an engaging listen for anyone seeking perspective on NBA greatness beyond mere numbers.

Read the full rankings and player profiles at The Athletic.