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B
Welcome to the slam and jam here on the Athletic NBA Daily. On today's show, we're talking to Law Murray briefly about the Clippers, but mostly talking surprise teams. Guys, it's time to talk surprise teams again for the 2025, 26 season. I cannot wait to give my surprise team. I'm very excited and then we will do some trivia. With me, as always, is my good friend Alex Spears. Alex, what's up?
- [02:25]
C
Hi, Andrew.
- [02:26]
B
Hi. And Law Murray of the Athletic, who he, you know, he writes about the Clippers, but he writes about everything. I mean anything and everything NBA related. You can get it from Law Murray.
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D
Law.
- [02:40]
B
How's it going, man?
- [02:42]
D
I miss summer already.
- [02:47]
B
Listen, I. You're a Clippers beat writer and that, that, that, that's a. It's a loaded term, I would say, right now in the NBA. But just one question. How excited are you for media day? And how eventful will this media day be?
- [03:04]
D
It's gonna feel like a Jordan Peele movie.
- [03:10]
C
Is that a good thing? He makes really good movies.
- [03:14]
D
I mean, if you're talking about get out, that's a bad way to describe the media today. If you're talking about anything else, that's a bad way to describe a Jordan Peele movie. So we've got to find some things out.
- [03:29]
B
Yeah. Must be just the strangest place to be because you're supposed to be. Supposed to be covering a basketball team. But there's a lot of other things going on around the Clippers right now, which stay. Stay locked into Law Murray on media day. That's what I'll have. That's what I have to say, because law will keep you guys covered on. On Monday. But we're here to talk about surprise teams. We're not here to talk about aspiration and apples and all these things. We're here to talk about surprise teams. So, Al, walk us through. What is this, our fifth, Our fourth surprise year.
- [04:11]
C
The first year was the year that Cleveland was good. Evan Moby's rookie year. So that was that. 2022.
- [04:18]
B
Yeah, 22.
- [04:19]
C
Yeah.
- [04:19]
B
Yeah.
- [04:20]
C
So we've been doing it since then, and that was the only year I did well. It's been bad ever since. But we're gonna get back this year.
- [04:28]
B
Okay.
- [04:29]
D
I've got a little franchise going.
- [04:31]
B
Year four. Year four of surprise teams.
- [04:34]
C
So surprise teams. If you've never listened to the show before, this is a big deal, folks, okay? You've turned into a big episode. This is honestly only episode I care about all season right now. Now, how surprise teams works is that each year I look at the over unders and I look at teams that have an over under below 36. And the reason I do that is because 36 roughly translates to teams that Las Vegas doesn't think has any chance to make the playoffs. Going back to the year 1999. The 99. 2000 season. So that's 26 seasons since then. There have been 46 teams who have had a preseason over under of 36 or less and have not just exceeded their over under. They've won 10 plus more games than that over under. So, for example, last season, me and me and Andrew did terrible. There were nine options. And for only the second time in surprise team history, four surprise teams revealed themselves by the end of the season. So for instance, the Detroit Pistons.
- [05:42]
B
Yeah.
- [05:43]
C
They have an over under last season of 24 and a half. They end up winning 44 games. 19 and a half more games than they're over under one. One of the biggest surprise teams we've ever big one. Portland, 22 and a half was there. Over under. They won 36 games. Chicago 27 and a half. Over under. They won 39 games. And then the Clippers. Hey, shout out to Law. Now this was a funky one because this actually didn't become true until after that preseason report that Kawhi Leonard was going to be out indefinitely. And their over under got chopped down to 35 and a half right before the season started. They end up winning 50 games, exceeded by 14 and a half. We have only had two seasons over the last 26 years. We've had four surprise teams and they just happen to be two of the last three seasons. Isn't that something?
- [06:40]
B
Yeah, that's wild.
- [06:42]
C
Parody.
- [06:43]
B
Huh? Parody.
- [06:45]
C
Now the other the, the season in between. So that was the 2223 season, 2425 season, the 2324 season. We had no surprise teams. Now, that has happened four times in the last 26 years. But most seasons you're getting at least one. And on average, we get 1.8 surprise teams per season. So what we're going to do today is I'm going to go through the candidates. We have nine candidates this year, nine teams who have a preseason over under below 36. I'm going to tell you what their target wins are, and then I am going to give you the top three reasons to choose this team as your surprise team for the upcoming 2526 season. And then after each team, I'll open it up to you and you can tell me why I. I shouldn't pick this team. Okay.
- [07:36]
B
Did you, did you say who our surprise teams were last year?
- [07:40]
C
I was hoping we could avoid it, Andrew. But yes, I chose the Toronto Raptors. And thank God. God, they're over under. This season is too high for them to be included, so I wouldn't be tempted again.
- [07:52]
B
Not too tempted.
- [07:53]
C
Yeah, they're over under is 39 and a half. Thank you, Vegas. Not tempted. Andrew chose the Hawks, which you were wrong. But like, you kind of see it now, huh?
- [08:04]
B
Yeah.
- [08:05]
C
A year later.
- [08:06]
B
Yeah. There weren't injuries. I think they get there.
- [08:09]
C
Maybe. Yeah. And for me, if the Raptors were good. Yeah, maybe they would have.
- [08:14]
B
They were better at basketball.
- [08:16]
C
Yeah, maybe.
- [08:18]
B
It's possible.
- [08:19]
C
Okay, now, before I get into the teams, I do want to Make a just a general observation that I do think is interesting and could affect your choices. So last season the bottom seven teams all controlled their own pick with some Philly needing to get a certain spot to keep their pick. I think that this likely artificially lowered some of the records last season because so many teams were actively tanking at once.
- [08:43]
B
Yeah.
- [08:43]
C
This season I think it's important to point out two of the teams that are projected to be in the bottom six, Phoenix and New Orleans, do not control their own picks. And a third team that is volatile, Philadelphia again only keeps their pick if it's top four. In other words, there might be less downward pressure on the bottom of the standings because there's going to be fewer teams with an incentive to lose. So just something to think about. Okay, so maybe these over unders, maybe we should go a little higher just in general whether they end up being surprises or not. Okay, so are you both ready?
- [09:16]
B
Ready.
- [09:17]
C
We're gonna start at the bottom with the lowest over under which this season is the Utah Jazz, who have an over under of 18 and a half. Now last season they won 17 games. In order to be a surprise team, they need to win 29 games. Here's my pitch. Number one, that over under very low. It is the lowest win total since the 1415 Sixers. Only nine teams over the last decade have finished with 18 or fewer wins. Shout out to John Hollinger. None of those teams had a healthy all star caliber player such as Lowry Markkanen. And because there are fewer teams with incentive to tank, Utah could win 29 games and still have a bottom four record. Like currently the projected fifth worst team in the league is the Pelicans and they're over under 30 and a half. So the Jazz could still, they could win 29 games and still be a bottom 14. Theoretically number two of the three worst teams, the Jazz obviously have the best player in marketing and they have the best center in Walker Kessler. And when those two were on the floor together, the Jazz had a net rating closer to a 27 win team. Okay, nothing crazy, but 27 wins better than 17. And my third pitch is that if the Jazz have any interest in trading marking in either this season or next summer, which we don't know. To be clear, they will be incentivized to play him more and help him restore his value with that contract to the player that we recently saw in Eurobasket. So I'm thinking maybe we get a big season from Larry Markin. Now, any thoughts about why I shouldn't choose the Utah Jazz as my surprise team.
- [11:05]
B
I have like a hundred thoughts about why you shouldn't choose the Jazz as your surprise team.
- [11:09]
C
Interesting.
- [11:11]
B
For one, I think that they have a very clear direction that they're trying to go in, and I think they let go of a lot of players in order to play these young guys and young guys lose games. That's just a hard and fast rule in the NBA is that when you're playing young guys, especially young guys with as many question marks as the players on the Utah Jazz, you're gonna lose games. And so to me, that's. That's the number one reason. Law. What do you got?
- [11:42]
D
Well, you alluded to this, Andrew, but who's the team that the. That will get the Jazz pick if it is outside of the top eight?
- [11:54]
C
Oh, oh, I forgot about that. That would be the Oklahoma City Thunder.
- [11:58]
D
It's always the Oklahoma City Thunder, man. It's always the Thunder. Like the funniest thing, this dude, Austin Ainge really got introduced and was like, we're not gonna tank as if we don't see these future picks and who controls them. So like, like, even if they try to win games, like we saw what they did last year, they weren't as bad as they should have been last year from a win loss total. This team got fined for not even being creative enough to hold Larry Markin and out of games. Like, forget trades, forget performance from some of the young guys. Like that front office is going to do everything it can to. To bubble wrap these dudes. Like, they have good players and they want to make sure those players are part of the next good Jazz team or the next ascending Jazz team.
- [12:57]
B
It's.
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D
They're waiting one more year, One more year, one more lottery pick after that. I think they want to give Will Hardy a chance to actually win games just like Brett Brown got a chance to finally win after half, Damn near half a decade of the process. The Jazz have not gotten the blue chip guy yet. I mean, they might have that guy in Ace Bailey, but there's, you know, let's just be real. They. They would like one more chance at one more bite of the apple there. And so that's, that's just a good reason for them to not win too many games.
- [13:35]
C
For both of you, who's your favorite Jazz young player?
- [13:40]
B
I was just thinking, this is it, Ace. I'm into Walter Clayton. Like, I would like to see what Walter Clayton can do this year. I think that he's interesting. I think kind of in that Jazz system I think that he could. He could be one that thrives.
- [13:57]
D
Man, Kyle Filipowski had a great summer watching, watching him in Las Vegas, I. I unfortunately asked out loud, how did this guy slip out of the first round? And then someone told me about, you know, the reasons why he might have.
- [14:15]
B
Slipped up the first round.
- [14:17]
D
Yeah, there. There were reasons, you know, we don't need to discuss him here, but that guy's really good and he should play the most minutes of any of their bigs outside of marketing and Kessler.
- [14:29]
C
Yeah. And we found this week that. Found out this week that Kessler and the Jazz have not reached any decision on a contract extension. So get that money Walker for Kessler. Okay, let's move on to the Brooklyn Nets, who have an over under of 20 and a half. Last season, they won't. They won more than that. They won 26 games. So this season, to be a surprise team, they need to win 31 games. So here's my pitch for Brooklyn, the Brooklyn Nets. I'm going to tell you right now, some of these were harder than others.
- [15:01]
B
He said pitch with such attitude.
- [15:04]
C
All right, number one, head coach Jordy Fernandez, already shown the ability to maximize his roster. Last season, Brooklyn's expected wins based on their net rating was 21.8, but they won 26 games. That's pretty good. Number two, last year the Nets showed us that they were not committed to going all out for tanking. They are willing to accept some extra wins for development, I would say, based on what we saw last year. And number three, with their future draft picks from the McHale Bridges trade, large contracts and young players, the Nets remain a strong candidate for a star trade. And I would ask if the opportunity for a star trade or trades arose during the season, would the Nets really pass on it? Would they pass on it just because they have to maximize this pick? I don't know. So, yeah. So maybe the nets can win 31 games. Any arguments against that? Amazing case I just made.
- [16:07]
B
You don't believe a thing that you're saying right now, Al.
- [16:09]
C
No, that was the toughest one.
- [16:11]
B
You don't believe one word of what you're saying. Yeah, the Nets are not going to win very many games at all. Even if there was a star trade available and you got a star onto this team, what star is winning games with this supporting cast?
- [16:26]
D
We've seen stars be on that team and them not win a single playoff game.
- [16:31]
B
We've seen multiple stars beyond this wear this jersey and not win games. How's one star gonna win With MPJ and Drew Timmy. Like how's that happening?
- [16:43]
C
Okay now Drew Timmy did look. I mean he was one of the best players in summer league. Andrew.
- [16:47]
B
Yeah. It's because he's one of the oldest guys in summer league. Like of course it's gonna, he's gonna look good.
- [16:53]
D
So piggyback off of Andrew's point. This is a team that used all five first round picks which is like insane unless you are intentionally trying to do what again, going back to a point that Andrew previously made. Stock your rotation with young players who will absolutely sabotage winning efforts. You can have a great coach like Jordy Fernandez and you know that coach is going to find a way to win games if he has competent players at his disposal. So the only way to combat a good coach, which Utah is very familiar with as well, is to give him players that are going to learn the hard way game in and game out. Like their point guards were three of those first round picks. San Versini, a guy I love how he assesses the draft was prepared for the possibility that Jagor Damon was not going to be a lottery pick. Well, the team that used a top 10 pick on him is also the team that has arguably the least interested in winning games in the entire conference. That guy is likely starting and will touch the ball more than any of the players on the team. Even probably more than Cam Thomas being that when Cam Thomas touches it, the ball ain't coming out. So I just feel like they have a way they're gonna have a whale of a time trying to score points with all those mistake prone ball handlers. That's the key them in Utah, the. The two teams that have the youngest players at the place starter position.
- [18:38]
C
Well, I disagree with both of you. I think I made a great case for the Nets and I like when teams do what I do in 2k which is just collect as many first round picks for the upcoming draft and just draft every single player that is available. I think it's a good idea.
- [18:53]
B
I don't, I don't, I don't mind that strategy. Also we have qualifying offer Cam Thomas.
- [18:58]
C
Which strongest player in the league.
- [19:01]
B
I'm really looking forward to it.
- [19:04]
D
They're not passing the ball at all in Brooklyn, man. Him and mpj.
- [19:10]
B
Yeah, they've got an agenda. They got to get those numbers up, man.
- [19:14]
D
The. My turn. Who's the third leading scorer on that team? Seriously? And do they, do they, do they even get to double figures?
- [19:25]
B
Let's see. Who would that turn?
- [19:27]
C
See, I mean Terence Mann, his Like career high is probably like around 12 or something.
- [19:31]
B
Oh, Terrence, man, as.
- [19:34]
D
As someone who covered Terence, and I love Terence, but yeah, Terrence is only average double figures in his career once and it took a biblical wave of injuries just to get there.
- [19:49]
B
Okay, is it Claxton just because of the minutes?
- [19:53]
C
Yeah. What's his career high? So he averaged 12.61 season. Okay.
- [20:01]
B
Yeah, I don't.
- [20:04]
C
I don't know if we have an answer for you.
- [20:05]
B
I'll. I'll go Claxton.
- [20:07]
C
Okay, you know what? I. And an equally interesting question is who. Who do you think is going to be the best of their rookies? Like when we get to the end of this season, which of their rookies do you think is. Is most likely to make an all rookie team or something like that?
- [20:26]
D
Even if it better be Damon. Yeah, it better be Damon.
- [20:30]
B
See, I better be Jaegor. He's gonna get the opportunity. Who else? Like, I don't. I don't. I mean Danny Wolf could be interesting and maybe he's a little. Maybe he's a little bit more ready. But like some of these other guys, I really don't know how like Drake Powell will look as an NBA player. And I really don't know enough about Trey Ore or Ben Serif to say so. I mean, I would bet on. On Jaegor.
- [20:59]
C
Okay, let's move on to the Washington Wizards. The Wizards, they didn't win very many games last year. This year they're over. Under is 21 and a half and. Which means they need to win 32 games to be the surprise team. The Washington Wizards do. Wow, 32. Okay, so here's my pitch. Number one, the Wizards traded away Jordan Poole this summer. When he was on the court. Last season, the wizards had a -14 net rating. When he was off the court, the Wizards improved to a -10.5 net rating. He is being replaced by CJ McCollum. Even though the Pelicans were awful last season, they were still more than three points per 100 possessions. Better when C.J. was on the court in his 1800 minutes. Something. Number two, it's going to be pretty difficult to be worse than the Wizards were last season. While the Wizards actually won fewer games two seasons ago, they had a much worse net rating last season. Last season, the wizards had a -12.7 net rating compared to a -9.7 net rating two seasons ago. Last year they had the expected wins of a 14 win team. They can only get better, right? Why is there over. Under 21 and a half. All right. Number three. Washington has several young players to get excited about. I mean we talked about Brooklyn's young players. It's like eh. Maybe some of these guys look at Washington. Keyshawn George, Bilal, Kulabali, Cam Whitmore, Alex Saar, Trey Johnson, Bub Carrington. If this OKC linked front office is as good as OKC was at drafting, I feel like we should expect some big jumps coming as soon as this year. And here's a little bonus one. They still have some vets on the team. I mentioned Cedar Calm. They still have Chris Middleton. Is there any chance you guys are buying the 32 win Washington Wizards?
- [23:04]
D
Did you say 32? A three and a two.
- [23:06]
C
That's what they need to. Yeah, that's what they would need to win.
- [23:09]
D
Yeah. Here's the thing. Even though they have a couple of adults in the room and it literally like is just those guys, I don't, I don't think they'll be on the team at the end of the season. They're gonna trigger on a try extra hard at the pawn and see last year the strategy was they needed to get adults in the room. They were horrible starting last season as you mentioned the priority was let's get guys like McCollum and Middleton. And they also had Marcus Smart who they parted ways with Marcus this offseason. I think it's the opposite approach this year. You know, get these guys to learn how to work in camp, get off to. I don't know if respectable is the right word but they're going to obviously be incentivized to give Khris Middleton and CJ McCollum a chance to show that they are not completely washed and that they can help a team sometime later in the winter. And then when they had their fire sale it will be an aggressive race to the bottom because once again not interested in winning games this year.
- [24:17]
B
Yeah, they're not. And they're. And they're doing the, the stealth tank. Let's not have any bigs at all thing where it's like Marvin, Marvin Bagley and Tristan Vuksovich is the. Are there two bigs. That's it. And I mean Sar maybe Sars hurt.
- [24:36]
D
By the way and cool Abali and.
- [24:38]
B
Yeah they're both hurt also like I, I don't know if Sar is a center. He's certainly not somebody who's locking down the rim. So I, I think that their defense is going to be so bad and they are going to be working in a creator and Trey Johnson that needs A lot of touches and needs a lot of reps and guys like that just don't win NBA games. I'm a big Trey Johnson believer. I think he's going to have a great career. It just takes some time to get the train on the tracks for those kind of guys. So, yeah, they're going to lose. They'll gladly lose. Hopefully they'll get a top three pick.
- [25:16]
C
Can't believe how negative you both are. It's disgusting.
- [25:21]
B
Disgusting.
- [25:22]
C
I can see it. I can see it. The 32 in Washington Wizards team ends up with the eighth pick. Yeah, I can see that.
- [25:30]
B
Looking at this roster, I somehow believe more in the Jazz.
- [25:35]
C
I'll be honest. Okay, listen, I'm not gonna pick the Jazz, but I will say doing this exercise, there were a few teams where I was like, you know what? I am much more confident. And they're over now. Yeah, like I, I kind of understand that Jazz is over argument much better than I did like a week ago.
- [25:51]
B
Yeah, same.
- [25:53]
C
Okay. Now it's okay. Fine. Those three, you hated them. I heard you.
- [25:57]
B
Fine.
- [25:58]
C
I feel, I feel like there's a tear break. There actually is a tear break. Because the Wizards had an over under of 21 and a half. Our next team, the Charlotte Hornets, have an over under of 27 and a half. So big jump here. Last season they won 19 games. To be this year's surprise team, they need to win 38 games. Now, my arguments for the Charlotte Hornets. Number one, the last time LaMelo played more than 51 games, the Hornets won 43 games. And this Hornets team continues to be significantly better when he's on the court. Last season when Lamello was on the court, The Hornets were a plus 9.5. Among players who played at least 1500 minutes last season, that was the eighth biggest swing in the NBA. Only Jokic, Zubots, Christian Brown, Franz Siakam, Giannis and Wemby had a bigger positive swing when they were on the court.
- [26:51]
B
Wow.
- [26:52]
C
Thank you. Number two, this team is more talented than last year's team. For Vests, they got Colin Sexton, Pat Connaughton, Mason Plumlee. They've also added a really promising class of rookies with con canipple, Liam McNeely, Ryan Kalkbrenner, scion James. And number three, to go along with those additions, they have a lot of guys coming back from injury that are going to help. Lamelo had surgeries on his right wrist and right ankle that will hopefully help him stay on the court this season. Grant Williams, he's going to be Back after a torn acl. Brandon Miller is going to be back after undergoing surgery for a wrist injury. Well, Lamelo and Brandon Miller have been on the court together the last two seasons. The Hornets have had a minus 2.89 net rating, which roughly translates to a 37ish win team. Does that do anything for you?
- [27:46]
B
You didn't mention the year that Lamelo last played that many games. What year was that?
- [27:52]
C
Okay, it was. It was a while ago. I know that. I think it was his second season.
- [27:58]
B
It was 20, 21, 22 season.
- [28:01]
C
Okay, so it's been a minute.
- [28:04]
B
Okay. Another question. Who starts at center for this team?
- [28:10]
C
This is easy. You keep bringing this up. It's Musa Diabot. Diabate.
- [28:15]
B
Okay.
- [28:15]
C
He's. He's gonna be a sleeper in fantasy. You gotta pick him up.
- [28:19]
B
Okay. Who's the backup?
- [28:22]
C
I guess I don't really know. My. My interest in the Hornets stops after that.
- [28:30]
B
Yeah, I just. That's. That's. To me that it's. It's a stealth tank move. Just don't have bigs and like, you'll lose games, you know, I do.
- [28:39]
C
You. You will admit they. They like have to be better than they were last year. Just getting guys back healthy.
- [28:45]
B
Yeah, I mean, Vegas thinks they'll be better than they were last year. Based on what they're over.
- [28:50]
C
Under is like 30 wins wouldn't shock me. I don't know if I can go 38, but 30 wins wouldn't shock me.
- [28:55]
B
Yeah, 30 wins, I think is very doable for this squad. They need their best players to be healthy, certainly. And I do like the direction they're going in. I like some of the players that they picked up in the off season. I think that they've got. I think they're heading in the right direction. And I think that they also know that they need to really hit in the lottery. You know, I don't think. I think there was certainly a tear break here, but I also think that this is another team that has an awareness of who they are and what they need to do. And I mean, if I'm them, I'm not banking on Lamello leading me anywhere. I'm hoping that we find that guy in the draft, in this next draft, and maybe you can move forward with Brandon Miller and whoever you draft next year and Khan and whoever else pops great. But, like, that would be my core if I'm moving forward with this Hornets team.
- [29:58]
D
Yeah, my. My biggest issue with Charlotte comes down to not even the supporting cast. I think they spent. They did A really good job this off season with an emphasis on supporting players and professionals. You know, like one thing about Colin Sexton, you know that guy is going to play hard. Like Dinwiddie is a point guard who's been around. He can, he can reach guys. Mason Plumlee is a guy who at the center position, like he's going to have a good relationship with the, with the bigs on that team. It's just that your team is led by the decision making of Lamelo Ball, Brandon Miller and Miles Bridges like we're talking about respectively. 41%, 40%, 43% from the field. From the three guys who are most likely to take double digit shots per game. That is crazy. Two of those guys jack up double digit threes per game despite the fact that they're Nowhere close to 40% guys. They play insane basketball offensively. And until that improves, you're going to love playing the Charlotte Hornets because I mean when they're hot, it's going to be entertaining. But more often than not they're, they're going to shoot themselves right out of several games. I wouldn't, I would not recommend hitching your wagon to these guys just yet.
- [31:20]
B
Yeah, I mean that's a Charles Lee thing too. I mean he came in, I think that he really tried to get Brandon Miller to take a ton of threes, you know, and he successfully did it. Good job.
- [31:34]
C
Okay. All right. I'm not, I'm not gonna give away my choice, but I will say that the Hornets did make my final four. Okay, just let you know right now. Four, my final. Yeah, I had to narrow it down.
- [31:49]
B
Okay.
- [31:49]
D
Man, ain't a final four. That's a fatal four, bro.
- [31:52]
C
No. Okay, next team, New Orleans Pelicans. Last year they won 21 games. This year they're over. Under is 30 and a half. Which means they need to win 41 games. They have to go 500. Argument number one, the Pelicans have zero incentive to lose games this season after their draft night trade with Atlanta. If they end up going under 30 and a half, it won't be because they're not interested in winning. Okay?
- [32:21]
B
Right.
- [32:22]
C
It would just because of their bad. Number two, the Pelicans won 49 games two seasons ago. They won 21, 21 games last year, 49 the year before, and they still have the leading scorer from that team, the best defender from that team, and I wanted to say the best three point shooter, but actually CJ McCollum had a crazy shooting year that year. He shot like 44% like eight attempts per game. So the second best three point shooter, but still very high volume. Trey Murphy. When those three have been on the court for the Pelicans. Zion, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy. New Orleans has had a plus five net rating over the last three seasons combined. They've been very good. When those three have been on the court, number three, Zion Williamson. He's coming into the season, arguably the best shape of his NBA career. He was quoted this week saying, quote, I haven't felt like this since college, high school, just where I can walk into a gym and I feel good. If Zion's healthy and we get a full season from Zion, forget, forget surprise team, okay? Just forget it for a second. If we get a full season from Zion, like this team is probably going to be close to 41. They'll probably be like mid to upper 30s as, as a floor. So why not pick them?
- [33:41]
B
I mean, it really all hinges on Zion Williamson. And that's not been something that I think that you can count on. I mean that's basically the argument, right? I mean it's, it's just been, I mean, he's played one season where they won 70 games.
- [33:57]
C
They won 70.
- [33:58]
B
Not once.
- [33:59]
C
Oh my gosh.
- [34:00]
B
Oh yeah.
- [34:01]
D
Zion played 70 playing 70. And that season, that season is the year that Alex, you're referring to. They won 49 games and Zion didn't. He got hurt in the playing tournament. They survived. He was. And you know what? Like they, you know, got swept by the Thunder in the first round this time last year. Look, I looked at that Pelicans team with all the talent that they had, no center, but all the talents at other positions. And I was like, that team, I think can break through in the West. The year they had last year was embarrassing. It was humiliating. It cost David Griffin his job and the pieces that are left makes you feel horrible for the, the fans that they have left because they're not the same team. Alex, let me tell you something. You want to bring up the 49 win team from two years ago? They're not that team no more, bro. They had five guys who played a thousand plus minutes left and three of those guys are Jose Alvarado, Jordan Hawkins and, and, and, and our guy Herb, like Herbs great Trey Murphy's design, Williams. How many games are those guys going to play together? They already have Dejounte, who's coming back for an Achilles. They already have the rookie who made that trade that incentivizes them to be better this season because they don't have a lottery pick. To spare. That guy is hurt too right now. Like sometimes your organization is your organization. And there's no reason to think that the Pelicans are going to overcome things when they really haven't made a habit of that this entire era With Zion on the team.
- [35:52]
B
Yeah, I just don't like the glue guys that they have left. When you mentioned that team that nearly won 50 games, they had a lot of really good glue guys that played a significant amount of minutes for them. And I just don't know that I like the guys that are going to be filling in there like C.J. look at that second unit player. Yeah, it's a weird second. It's gonna be a really weird second unit. You know, Dyson Daniels played a ton for that team and was really good for them. Larry Nance played a huge role for them. Najee Marshall, I just think that they had. They had guys that knew how to glue the superstars together on that team. And looking at the roster now, I just don't know that you have those pieces to get there. Could they be a surprise team if Zion is healthy? It's possible, but I just don't know that you can sell me on the supporting cast being nearly what that one was.
- [36:46]
C
All right, well, I'm gonna go back and try again with the Phoenix Suns, who last year won 36 games. They're over under this season, 31 and a half. Which means they only need to win 42 games. That's not too much. 42 and 40. Number one argument. Number one, similar to the Pelicans, the Suns have zero incentive to lose games this season after trading away everything they own to win six playoff games. Number two, of all the potential surprise teams we're going to discuss today, the Suns have the best player. Devin Booker is a consensus top 20 player in the league. He's been one of the most consistent scorers in the league. Did you know that among active players under 30 years old, no one has more seasons scoring 25 plus points per game than Devin Booker? Makes sense. He was super young. He even had a season where he scored like 24.8. I didn't even count that. And he still has the most 25.5 seasons. Number three. Last season the Suns had the fourth worst defense in the league ahead of only Washington, Utah and New Orleans. Now they've bolstered their center rotation, which was one of, if not the worst, center rotation league. They've added Mark Williams, Common, Malwatch. They've also added Dylan Brooks, who outside of his rookie season has basically Never been on a bad defensive team. Anything there for you. Am I getting excited about the Phoenix Suns?
- [38:14]
B
Well, the. The quote from their owner, Matt Ishbia. This one got me excited. I hope. I hope we win more games than last year.
- [38:22]
C
Okay, stop the quote there. That sounds great. So we're going Suns over, but the.
- [38:27]
B
Truth is it's not going to be measured in wins and losses this year.
- [38:31]
C
Well, it is.
- [38:32]
B
It's going to be measured in success.
- [38:36]
C
Yeah. Okay.
- [38:38]
B
So does that get you fired up? Hmm.
- [38:40]
C
So he's kind of presenting like an alternative to wins that we could judge this upcoming season by.
- [38:46]
B
So, like, I don't know what that means.
- [38:49]
C
So they could be a surprise success team. We don't know.
- [38:52]
B
Yeah.
- [38:52]
C
Kind of what the scale is.
- [38:54]
B
Success. What happened? I don't know. I don't know how you measure success if not by wins and losses. Yeah, this is a weird team. This is a really weird team. I'm not really sure what the offense is going to look like between Booker and Jalen Green as the guys that are going to be their primary shot takers. Also, congratulations. You now have last year's Hornets center rotation. I'm not sure that that gets you anywhere either. I. I don't know. This is a very strange team. I don't believe in them at all. And I think the Dylan Brooks argument might be the only good one out there. That might be. That might be your best one.
- [39:44]
D
Well, for one, the bar for them to be a surprise team, it's pretty high. Like 42 wins in the. In the west after what the Suns gave us last year. That's pretty rough. I mean, and Devin Booker, he actually played 75 games last year when they did not have Kevin Durant. I want to say that the Suns won like two games the whole year. Now you have Jalen Green, bro. If Devin misses two weeks, this thing falls apart fast. And that's the thing. Devin has had to play so many roles for so many coaches, and I'm a Devin Booker fan. That guy can get buckets, but that guy does not elevate the performance of a team by himself. He's had outstanding, great teammates in the years that his team overperformed or made the playoffs or were competent. He's not playing with Chris Paul. He's not playing with Kevin Durant. His relief is literally Jalen Green and Dillon Brooks. That is a team that is ripe to be, at best, average offensively. And I don't know how this team is going to defend with the centers that they have. Mark Williams is one of the worst rim protectors in the league at the center position. Maliwak does not look like he's ready to play and Nick Richards is good, but they're going to need Nick Richards to play because the I I just don't believe in the readiness of Malawak or the durability of Mark Williams.
- [41:22]
C
Man. All right. Moving on to the Chicago Bulls, who last year won 39 games over under is 32 and a half, so they would need to win 43 games last year. Argument number one. The Bulls won 39 games, only four off their surprise team total for this upcoming season. Per John Schumann of NBA.com Only Minnesota and OKC are returning a greater percentage of minutes from last season, with Chicago returning 84 of their regular season minutes from last year. Now they're a 39 win team, but for the purposes of this, that sounds pretty good. Number two, in their final 21 games of last season, the Bulls went 15 6. Seven of those wins came over playoff teams. If you go back farther to February 3rd, the day after Zach Levine's last game, they were still 18 and 14 to close the season with a plus 1.4 net rating. That's the pace of a 44 win team number three. An important piece that I don't feel like is discussed enough was the addition of Kevin Herter, who Chicago acquired in the Zach Levine deal. In his short 26 game run to end the season with Chicago, Herter completely made up the loss of Levine's volume of three pointers, taking 7.6 per game while hitting 38% after so many seasons at the bottom of the league in terms of three point volume, Chicago was third in three point attempts per game last season. And bringing back Herter to continue that three point shooting. Arguments against silence Hear that?
- [43:04]
D
This is going to make us look so negative. Like this is a mean podcast. Alex, you realize.
- [43:10]
C
No, it's not. I'm. I'm positive. I'm positive you're the negative ones.
- [43:15]
D
You're. You're manipulative. That's what you are. My, my, my biggest, my, my biggest thing with the Bulls, they, I feel like they played fast to mask the fact that though they don't have true go to guys, they don't have guys who really put pressure on you individually in the half court. And to mask that, they had to go fast. I think when you finish the season like that, that's one thing to try and do that all season long, especially with the guys they have. I mean if they're fully healthy that's one thing. But again, there's not a lot of guys on this team who you look at as true bucket getters. They have some of the worst free throw attempt rates at their respective positions and that's fully healthy. Things change big time if some of those third stringers have to start playing rotation minutes.
- [44:13]
B
Yeah, I don't believe in their defense either. They really. I mean, you talked about pace like they're going to give up a ton of points this year. I think this team is going to give up a ton of points.
- [44:24]
C
So did you know that they're adding a Hall of Fame coach this season?
- [44:27]
B
It's true. Adding him.
- [44:30]
C
Well, he wasn't last year.
- [44:32]
B
It's true.
- [44:32]
C
He is now.
- [44:33]
B
It's true.
- [44:34]
C
Billy D. Billy D. Okay, you know what? That, that was pretty negative, but actually I started to feel like a little bit of hope. So maybe as we go into these final couple of teams, I'm starting to feel out where you guys might be leaning. We'll see. We'll see. Okay, next team. We have two teams left. Portland Trailblazers. My hometown team, by the way. Modus center, they just redid the big screen in the middle. We got new screens on either side. It's gonna be a new era. Come on down. Of course it's bigger. Do you know what? Not only is it bigger, I wish you could have seen what they looked like. They were the same ones from like the 70s. Yeah, they're like hustle stat. Things at either end. Yeah, yeah, they replaced those. I love them. I thought they were cute, but. But yeah, they're all. They're all nice. They're all big screens now. I haven't seen them, but I assume. Okay, Portland Trailblazers, here we go. By the way, I got all their commemorative glasses last year. Yeah, they had four commemorative glasses, folks. If you got them, don't put them in the dishwasher. I've ruined all of them.
- [45:37]
B
Really?
- [45:38]
C
Oh, come off my shade in my scoot.
- [45:42]
B
That's terrible, bro.
- [45:44]
C
Yeah. My blaze the Trail Cat. Okay, the Blazers have an over under 34 and a half. They need to win 45 games to be this year's surprise team. Listen to this point number one. In their final 50 games of the season, Portland was 25 and 25. That's 500. Playing at the pace of a 44 win team by net rating. They were even stronger down the stretch of the season. But it's more notable because this wasn't just a Mickey Mouse March type of thing, as you could maybe say. About the Bulls. Portland played like a.500 team for more than half of last season. Point number two during that 50 game stretch, Portland was the seventh best defense per cleaning the glass in the league. They traded away their worst regular rotation. Defender Anthony Simons replaced him with Jrue Holiday. In fact, it's important to know that for both Simons and Ayton, who are both no longer on the team, the Blazers were more than six points worse per 100 possessions when either Simons or Ayton were were on the court last season. And a big part of that defense was rookie Donovan Clingan. The Blazers went from a -4.7 net rating to neutral when Clingan was on the court in his 1300 minutes last season as a rookie, and it was largely driven by how much the defense improved when he was on the court. Number three. With Dame and Drew on board, the Blazers have set up the ideal development environment for the young backcourt with Scoot and Shaden. If those guys are going to do anything, you can't blame the Blazers for not putting them in a amazing position to succeed. Moving on from Simons bringing in the best mentorship team of guards you could possibly ask for. So what do you have against the Blazers?
- [47:24]
B
That's just what Scoot's just been waiting to get mentored. He's just been, he's just been looking around saying who's going to mentor me? Maybe how am I supposed to be good without being mentored?
- [47:35]
C
They do have Chauncey Billups as their.
- [47:36]
B
Head coach, but still, yeah, he's like, that's not good enough, Mr. Big Shot. That's not good enough. I need somebody else to mentor me so I can really shine.
- [47:44]
C
I need triple all star guard.
- [47:46]
B
I need, I need three good guards so I can be mentored properly.
- [47:52]
C
That's all it takes.
- [47:53]
B
When has this ever been a thing for a top three pick in the draft? Ever, ever been a thing? I just think it's the weirdest. I mean it's, it's cool. I do think like that kind of stuff is good, but when is this ever been a thing in the NBA where it's like, man, I mean, we're just waiting on mentorship to be good.
- [48:15]
C
I mean, SGA gives a lot of credit to Chris.
- [48:18]
B
He was already good. He was already good. Like he. Sure. But.
- [48:26]
D
I'm dying because I just saw him. Y' all didn't, y' all didn't think I'd have a Jordan pool tie in for this one, but oh, that's what this Is, bro. Yo, they brought. They brought Damien Lillard back to introduce Scoot to the seven circles of hell, man.
- [48:46]
C
I hope so. And it's gonna work too.
- [48:51]
D
Yo. Hey, yo, I'm sweating right now. Yo, Portland's. Portland's offense is going to be so bad, bro.
- [48:59]
C
It was bad last year. It was 20.
- [49:02]
D
Exactly, Alex.
- [49:04]
C
How much worse could it be?
- [49:05]
D
Alex, we have come. We have come to an understanding. It was bad last year. Ain't gonna be better this year, man. Yeah, yeah.
- [49:13]
C
But. But the defense, I think that's. I think that's a top 10 defense and I think it has upside from there.
- [49:20]
B
They do have an identity.
- [49:22]
C
I looked.
- [49:23]
D
Yeah, the identity is firm.
- [49:25]
C
Yeah, that sounded rude. Okay. Two seasons ago, the Magic and the Heat both had like top six or seven defenses, awful offenses, and both won more than 45 games. So. I'm just saying it could happen. We've seen versions of this team that are.
- [49:45]
D
What conference were those dudes playing?
- [49:47]
C
Well, you know, that's not. That's not super.
- [49:49]
D
The east was strong two years ago, okay?
- [49:53]
C
Oh, no, it wasn't. Oh, well. Okay. Whatever. Final. Hey, hey, you. You're. You're crapping on all these teams. Here's the fact. Last season, four surprise teams happened. Okay? Can you even. I actually can't imagine four of these nine teams we've talked about. It'd be wild beating their over under by 10 plus games.
- [50:11]
B
I can't believe you didn't mention young Hansen.
- [50:14]
C
Well, I didn't. I didn't want to bring up young Hanson because one, it's kind of arguments against the defense. I mean, I know he blocks shots, but I'm really worried about his. His defense.
- [50:22]
B
Yeah.
- [50:23]
C
But also I'm. I'm trying to. I'm trying to be realistic. You know, I'm not. I'm not projecting that Jan Hansen's just going to come on the scene and break out as a rookie. I'm trying to focus on what they have. And what they have is a really good defensive team right now.
- [50:35]
B
Who's their best offensive player?
- [50:38]
C
Who cares?
- [50:39]
B
I'm just. I'm just asking the question.
- [50:41]
C
I mean, I'd say Denny Abia.
- [50:45]
D
It better be Denny.
- [50:47]
B
Okay?
- [50:47]
D
I would make the whole plane out of Denny.
- [50:49]
B
Right.
- [50:50]
D
I really would.
- [50:51]
C
You don't like Shaden? I'm a big Shane fan.
- [50:54]
D
I don't know if Shaden's gonna start. And that's not even Shaden's fault. Like it's. They have a Jeremy Grant problem and everything I saw from that was a huge Concern and he makes, you know, they. They were able to get off of Aiden. They were able to get off assignments. I bet you they would have loved to have found a solution and, and found a new home for Jeremy Grant. And that dude's contract is arguably the worst in basketball right now.
- [51:22]
C
Yeah, it's not great, I will say. How much worse can it get? I mean, his stats last season, the.
- [51:28]
B
Argument is they were.
- [51:30]
C
I mean, his stats last season were unbelievable. Even for a down year. He shot 38% from two. What? What? All right, final team. Ninth and final team. We've reached the ninth circle of hell. Sacramento Kings last season won 40 games over under 35 and a half. They need to win 46 games. All right, point number one post, De' Aaron Fox. Trade. The Kings were 16 and 18 to close the season. Now, that's not great, obviously, but it wasn't like they completely fell off the cliff. They were one win from being a 500 team during that period, and that included two overtime losses. Number two, that team that was basically a.500 team after losing to Aaron Fox, is at least adding Dennis Schroeder, EuroBasket MVP. And Nick Clifford, an older rookie who looks ready to contribute, at least based on his summer league performance. And based on the reporting this week, there have been renewed talks with Golden State about Jonathan Kaminga. And regardless of what you think about Kaminga, it definitely would help them balance out their roster. Definitely. They have a lot of guards right now. All right, number three. Winning 46 games wouldn't represent that much of a jump for this Kings team. Over the last three seasons, they've won 48, 46 and 40 games. Average of 45 wins per season. With a lot of these other teams, you're asking them to take a huge jump and do something they've never done. This win total is at least in the general range of where the Kings have been. So why not pick the Kings?
- [53:04]
B
Yeah. You talk about the Kaminga balancing out their roster. The problem is, like, you're bringing in like, this, the style of play. Like what, Hooper, what is this? What is happening here? I just don't. I just don't get this. I just don't understand the guys that they're bringing in as, like, the. Andrew.
- [53:27]
C
It's what. It's what we call in the business a talent play. Okay, we're making a talent play.
- [53:31]
B
Yeah. I just. I think it's the wrong way to build a basketball team. I just don't. I don't like anything they're doing. Yes. This is the most talented team that we've talked about so far. Like, it's not even close. As far as, like, if you're stacked up there, two K ratings, like, yeah, this is the most talented team. But there's, like, there's no fit. There's no real plan here in Sacramento. Like, they're. They are just. Just grabbing talent and putting it and just like, hoping that it all works together. But none of it makes sense. This roster makes no sense.
- [54:08]
D
I can't believe they were the best offense in basketball just two years ago.
- [54:13]
C
Once upon a time.
- [54:14]
D
And it's like demonic Sabonis wasn't playing with Dennis Schroeder, Zach Levine, DeMar DeRozan for that. He was playing with Keegan Murray. And Keegan Murray's been just minimized to a guy who has to be a three. Indeed to cover for all those other dudes. Like, Kiki Murray's really good. Why is this team chasing Jonathan Kaminga? Why has that been a conversation in the chat for months? This team does not need another ball in hand guy with a complete lack of supporting skill. This is the worst thing.
- [54:51]
C
Yes.
- [54:52]
D
The Kings are literally the basketball team that you make a terrible B movie that goes straight to DVD for. And I mean straight to dvd. A device that no one uses anymore. Like, that's this basketball team. Like, they have so many guys who you don't have to worry about cooking for themselves, you know, creating their own shot, and they have just a complete lack of supporting skill that leads to winning on both ends of the floor. So, yeah, I guess Kaminga does make the most sense.
- [55:23]
C
To answer your question about why Kaminga, I would. I would say a quote from maybe a soon to be king, Russell Westbrook. Why not? Why not? And why not add Russ as well? Okay, so that brings us.
- [55:37]
B
Why not bring Russ into the fold?
- [55:40]
C
Okay, so as negative as you guys have been. Oh, my gosh.
- [55:44]
D
Here's the actual Freezing Cold takes podcast right here.
- [55:49]
C
You. You have to pick one of these teams. Now, before we do that, I just want to tell you about a few teams that just missed the cut. The Miami Heat have an over under of 37 and a half. That would have been fun to talk about. The Indiana Pacers. That would have been fun to talk about 38 and a half. And then the Raptors, 39 and a half. Raptors over. Under so high they would need to win 50 games to be. But they don't qualify. Okay, so how we're gonna do this is. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna Count down from three. Okay, I'm gonna say three, two, one. All at the same time. We're gonna say the name of the city of the team we are going to select as the surprise team for the 20, 25, 26 season. This is a team that we believe can win 10 plus more games than they're over under. Are you all ready?
- [56:39]
B
Yes.
- [56:39]
C
Okay. Three, two, one. And then we're gonna say, okay, here we go. Three, two, one.
- [56:46]
D
Chicago.
- [56:48]
C
Really? Let's go Bulls. Bulls are back.
- [56:52]
D
B. This was, this was, this was. I was not expecting, I was not expecting y' all to agree with me on that one.
- [57:09]
B
I, I thought maybe you go with your hometown Blazers, Al. But yeah, the Chicago makes the most sense to me. One, they're in the Eastern Conference. They have, they have an identity now with the way that their roster looks like they have a pretty balanced roster for the most part. And a lot of, a lot of this will hinge on like Josh Giddy's ability to continue to facilitate like he did and score like he did. But I think that he's going to continue to get better. They have a decent center rotation. They've got some developing wings. Kevin Herder is like a perfect fit for, for Giddy on the wing. So I'm, I'm a fan of this Bulls team. They were, they were actually a really fun basketball team last year. And I think that they're.
- [57:55]
C
Oh, their game against my uncle who doesn't even watch the NBA, I made him watch the entire end of that Lakers game.
- [58:02]
B
That was amazing.
- [58:04]
D
I was in New York when that game happened and I was dying. But look, they finished last year post All Star break. Okay? They were 17 and 10. Now that means that they were one of 11 teams to win at least 60% of their games after the All Star break. The other 10 teams made the playoffs last year. Now, if you want to go back the year before post All Star break, teams that won at least 60% of their games, there were some teams that, you know, they, they won 6% of their post All Star break games. They didn't make the 20, 24 playoffs, but they went on and carried the momentum into the next year and they made the playoffs. I'm talking about the Golden State warriors and I'm talking about the Houston Rockets. And the Rockets were a two seed. However fake that two seat was, they were the two seed in the west after finishing last year or the season before as strong as they did. Chicago is the only one of those teams in the east that you gave us Alex, that are not incentivized to tank because the Bulls never tank. They probably couldn't take even if you told them that that was the only thing that they could do. So we're going to give them some credit in this little exercise that you have that's going to make us look terrible in about six months. And we're going to apply some logic and say that in a very thin Eastern Conference, that team should have a great chance to over go way over their win total.
- [59:35]
C
See, I think this was a gift from Vegas because they won 39 games last year. Why is it 32 and a half? If it was 35 and a half, I would not feel nearly as confident. But 32 and a half, 32 feels so low when they win 39 games. And the east consensus, everyone agrees it got worse. The east is worse than it was last year. So why are the Bulls. Why is there over under dropping by so much when they're the the third team behind Minnesota and OKC in terms of bringing back the biggest percentage of minutes from last season? I don't get.
- [60:09]
B
Makes no sense. Also, Kobe White is a, is a really good player that I think you can kind of pigeonhole guys like him into like these like scorer only guys. But I don't really think that's the way Kobe plays. I think that he's way more of a team player than a lot of the guys that are this archetype. So I, I think that he, and he's playing for a contract too. And so I do think that this could be a really big year for Kobe White. So I like, I kind of like this Bulls team. I don't think they're going to be some awesome team, but I think that they could, you know, sneak into the playoffs and just be kind of this young, frisky team.
- [60:46]
D
Yeah, it all comes down to Josh Giddey. Like if I'm playing fantasy, I am betting super hard that that Josh Giddey that you saw post Zach Levine trade is the Zach Giddey or is the Josh Giddey that can play the full season like that? We're talking 21 points, 10 rebounds, nine assists per game. And he had like an eight steel game in there. Like the shooting was still rickety, but the dude shot 50, 40, 80 after the all Star break. So if you get that Josh Giddey over the course of a full season and if you get that Josh Giddy over the course of the new contract that the Bulls gave him, see the Bulls and jerk him around like Kamingen Quentin Grimes or even Cam Thomas. The Bulls are like, all right, we're paying you. The vibes are good. And sometimes for a basketball team, there are average talented teams that overperform just because guys want to play and guys want to be on the same team as each other.
- [61:50]
C
And we didn't even mention year two modus pizzealous.
- [61:53]
B
True.
- [61:54]
C
Who I'm excited about because, you know, a lot of rookies, when they're on the court, their teams are bad, even when they're showing flashes. I looked it up his on off numbers. The Bulls were basically the same team when he was on or off the court, which is pretty encouraging for a rookie that he wasn't a huge negative on the court. So I'm excited about him, too.
- [62:11]
B
Yeah, it's great. Wow.
- [62:13]
C
We all, we all picked the same team.
- [62:15]
B
It's exciting, I think. Is that the first time ever in our. Yes. Four years of surprise teams. Wow. Yes. That's wonderful. Something else that's wonderful is trivia, which we're gonna do right after the quick break.
- [62:44]
A
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- [64:37]
B
After that quick break, Al what's it time for.
- [64:42]
C
It is time for Andrew versus the bed.
- [64:45]
D
Our weekly trippy show.
- [64:46]
C
Ranger goes head to head against NBA beat Raider. In this case, it's Law Murray of the Law Angeles Clippers. And Law, in honor of you being here, all of these questions are about new Clippers, all about players that have been added to the Clippers in this off season. So each question will be about a different player that was added. And yes, there were at least eight because I came up with eight questions. So how this works. You'll choose a number between one and eight correspond to a question. Some are easy, some are hard. You get it right, you'll get at least two points. If you get it wrong, Andrew, I have a chance to steal. And we'll go back and forth until all the questions have been asked and answered. So Law, to start us off, I just need a number between one and eight.
- [65:25]
D
Hey, let's go with eight.
- [65:28]
C
Question number eight. The Clippers signed undrafted rookie Zach Fremantle from Xavier University. Fremantle was a four star recruit. He chose Xavier over Pittsburgh, where Mark Cuban went to school. Did you know that? Can you name two other NBA players who played at Xavier University? They don't have to be active players. Could be at any point during NBA history.
- [65:56]
D
Yeah.
- [65:57]
C
Okay.
- [65:58]
D
David West. Tyrone Hill.
- [66:00]
B
David West.
- [66:01]
C
Wow. Okay, congrats.
- [66:03]
B
Yeah.
- [66:03]
C
Two points now.
- [66:05]
B
I'll be honest, Christian.
- [66:07]
C
That is true. Any others? Keep going.
- [66:11]
B
Jordan Crawford.
- [66:13]
C
Yeah, there's two current players.
- [66:16]
B
Do you know, I think Marshall went.
- [66:18]
C
To Z Marshall and Colby Jones. I don't think you'd get that.
- [66:24]
B
I think James Posey went to Xavier.
- [66:26]
C
James Posey did go. Wow, look at you two now. Andrew, you're getting zero points right now, but still very impressive.
- [66:33]
B
Ghost points.
- [66:34]
C
Derek Brown. Brian Grant. Edmund Sumner. Sumner Eminence. Eminem's Edmonds summoner. Okay, Andrew, board is yours.
- [66:46]
B
Number one.
- [66:47]
C
Question number one. Ty. Ty Washington Jr. Signed a one year deal with the Clippers for the upcoming season. Much like a tree that hasn't been planted, Tai Tai is still waiting for his career to find solid footing. What is Ty. Ty Washington junior's career high in points? And you get to choose who answers first. Andrew, you can make Law answer first and then you can go higher, lower. Or you can answer first.
- [67:11]
D
Gosh.
- [67:11]
C
And then Law can go higher, lower.
- [67:13]
B
He's played so few games.
- [67:19]
C
56. Somewhere around there.
- [67:21]
B
Yeah. Goodness. I'm gonna answer. Okay. It cannot be very high though. I don't know.
- [67:35]
C
You don't think he's had a 40 burger?
- [67:37]
B
No. I don't know.
- [67:39]
C
2222 low. Would you like to go higher or lower than 20?
- [67:43]
D
Lower.
- [67:45]
C
Correct answer is 20.
- [67:50]
B
I went two two for Ty. Ty. Just. You know, just for. For good luck. But.
- [67:56]
C
Okay. Law, you're up. Three. Zip board is yours.
- [67:59]
B
Oh boy.
- [68:00]
D
Three.
- [68:01]
C
Question number three. The sun circumvented Bradley Beals no trade clause this summer by waving and stretching his contract, allowing him to join the Clippers. While Beal's infamous no trade clause is no more. The Clippers have two players with implicit no trade clauses, meaning they can't be traded this season without their permission. Who are those two players? One point per correct answer.
- [68:29]
D
Oh, man. So you're saying the Clippers basically have two players that can't be traded because of the situation of their contract.
- [68:38]
C
Correct. They have to get their permission.
- [68:42]
D
Gonna go with James Harden and Nicholas.
- [68:45]
C
Correct. That is correct. Five. Zero.
- [68:48]
B
Man.
- [68:49]
C
Law is up. Andrew.
- [68:52]
B
Okay, this is not so good. Number two.
- [68:56]
C
Question number two. How old is Chris Paul? Not the question. He's so old. The opponent he's played the most games against in his career has been a no show since March 2019 when he played his final NBA game. Who is it?
- [69:16]
B
March 2019.
- [69:19]
C
Yeah. The player Chris Paul has played the most games against has been a no show since March 2019.
- [69:37]
B
Oh gosh. I have no idea who this is. Most games that Chris Paul. Let's see.
- [69:47]
C
And it will probably change this year. If he's healthy, he'll play Steph Curry two more games.
- [69:52]
B
Yeah.
- [69:53]
C
And that. And he'll pass. That will be his most common opponent.
- [69:56]
B
Okay. But for now, Tim Duncan.
- [69:59]
C
That is incorrect. Law, any guesses?
- [70:05]
D
2019.
- [70:12]
B
Damn.
- [70:17]
D
N. I don't got it.
- [70:20]
C
What if I told you the last team he played for in March 2019 was the Charlotte Hornets, A team he was on with Nicholas Batum.
- [70:37]
D
Oh my God. I'm gonna. I'm. I'm literally going to bang my head against this desk.
- [70:44]
C
Andrew, you were close. It was Tony Parker.
- [70:48]
B
Oh, TP. Dang it.
- [70:50]
C
Tony Parker.
- [70:52]
B
I think it's probably a spur, but.
- [70:55]
C
Okay. Law, you still have a commanding five to zero lead. Where would you like to go next?
- [71:01]
D
Number seven.
- [71:02]
C
Question number seven. There is some circumstantial evidence that the Clippers aren't very good at drafting. But maybe things will be different for Yannick Niederhauser, who the Clippers selected with the last pick in the first round. Who were the last two first round picks drafted by the Clippers other than SGA that got a second contract in the NBA and you get one point Per correct answer.
- [71:29]
D
Okay.
- [71:30]
C
And this has to be a real contract, not a two way right?
- [71:36]
D
Now when you say first round pick by the Clippers.
- [71:40]
C
Yeah.
- [71:41]
D
Does that include draft rights or does, is or, or are we being weird here about.
- [71:48]
C
No. They had to play as a rookie. As a Clipper.
- [71:51]
D
As a first round pick.
- [71:53]
C
Yes.
- [71:53]
D
The last two. Damn. And I mean. And you mean us. A real second contract. There aren't a lot of guys like that.
- [72:08]
B
Huh?
- [72:09]
D
I'm gonna, I'm, I'm gonna botch this one way or the other. I just, I, I just feel that's how it's going to go. I want to say Keon Johnson.
- [72:17]
C
That is correct.
- [72:20]
D
And I got one more. Yeah.
- [72:22]
C
Although I'm realizing it's not true. So good luck.
- [72:28]
D
Good luck guessing. I mean, I guess we could say Jerome Robinson.
- [72:33]
C
Did he get a second contract? Did he really?
- [72:41]
D
I don't remember if it was a.
- [72:43]
C
Two way or not, but no, he didn't. I feel like he got a two way with Golden State.
- [72:47]
B
Yeah.
- [72:48]
C
I'm gonna give you both points because the name I actually had was Landry Shamit. But he was drafted. He did play as a rookie with the Clippers, but was not a first round pick, which I'm just now realizing. So you still get the points though, and that's all that matters because now you're up seven to zero. Well, I'll be really going back. Okay, Andrew, you're down by seven. As a reminder, Andrew lost the last time we played by 13. So let's see if you can keep it closer.
- [73:19]
D
Andrew also had a massive comeback when he played me on one of these, so there's that.
- [73:23]
C
Yeah, well, I don't think it's possible.
- [73:28]
B
It's not looking possible.
- [73:32]
C
Four, question number four. Since his rookie season in 2017-18, John Collins has been a board man. Collins has totaled 145 career double doubles since entering the league. There are only five players with more double doubles than Collins during that time span while also never making an All Star game. Name two.
- [73:56]
B
Never making an All Star Game.
- [73:58]
C
Yeah. So this is since John Collins came in the league. Five other players who also have never made an All Star game but have more double doubles during that time. Spanish than John Collins. Okay. Named two of them. There's five names.
- [74:10]
B
Wow, that is a tough question.
- [74:17]
C
Can he get on the board?
- [74:18]
B
Folks, when you throw in the, the All Stars thing, they've never made an All Star team. Not.
- [74:25]
C
Yeah, none of these guys have ever made an All Star team.
- [74:28]
B
Wow. Shoot.
- [74:35]
C
Actually I take that back. There's four names now. Name two.
- [74:42]
B
Okay. Jonas Valentunas.
- [74:49]
C
Yes, that is correct. Andrew. For one point. The name that made me go down was Andre Drummond. I realized, oh, yeah, he's been All Star. Yeah, it's just a long time ago.
- [75:02]
B
Drummond. Wow. God, be great to get one of these.
- [75:09]
C
Be so good.
- [75:10]
B
Zubots.
- [75:11]
C
There you go. Current Clipper Zubots. Any guesses at the other two names? They're bigs.
- [75:23]
B
Golly. Just so many All Stars that get so many bounds.
- [75:27]
C
That's true.
- [75:29]
B
I heart.
- [75:31]
C
No, it was Clint Capella. Makes sense.
- [75:34]
B
Okay.
- [75:35]
C
And Yusuf Nurkic. Yusuf.
- [75:40]
B
Okay. Wow.
- [75:42]
C
Also has a five by five. Okay.
- [75:44]
B
Law.
- [75:45]
C
Two questions left, five or six?
- [75:47]
D
Five.
- [75:49]
C
Question number five. Brook Lopez was a good big early in his career, but he aspired for more. So during the 201617 season, he started shooting threes and he started making them, hitting over a thousand three pointers in the intervening years. There are only four other seven footers in NBA history to hit a thousand threes. Can you name all four? And you get one point for each two names that you get. So if you get a pair, you get a point.
- [76:19]
D
All right, let's go with Dirk.
- [76:21]
C
Okay, that's one name.
- [76:25]
D
7Ft tall thousand threes. Damn it, man. I know I should have paid more attention to tall dudes shooting threes.
- [76:41]
C
You've been sleeping on them.
- [76:43]
D
Kevin. Kevin Durant should be on here, but we all know he don't like calling himself a seven footer, so. That's not a guess reference.
- [76:51]
C
I know.
- [76:51]
D
Not. Not a guess. Just a.
- [76:53]
C
Just, just a. I did. I did click on his name just to make sure it hasn't been updated in basketball reference, but nope, still 611.
- [77:00]
D
Still 611. Oh, my God. Who is tall makes threes besides Dirk? Nicole is not six. Eleven. Or he's. He's not seven. Not a true seven footer.
- [77:19]
C
I'm about to.
- [77:20]
D
I'm about to just punt and just say, I gotta get one more 7ft tall thousand threes. Screw it. I ain't got it in me.
- [77:32]
C
Oh, Andrew, could this be the start of your comeback? That can't happen technically. But could it be? Can you name all four? Cat, that is one name. You have to give me a second name to get to get the first point.
- [77:50]
B
Okay. Embiid.
- [77:54]
C
No. Why didn't you say Dirk? You could have said Dirk and gotten a point.
- [78:01]
B
I can say Dirk again?
- [78:03]
C
Yes, because you only get a point for each two names you get.
- [78:06]
B
I didn't know I could say Dirk again.
- [78:09]
C
Although as you Say Embiid. How has he not hit a thousand threes? What he.
- [78:12]
B
What is he not?
- [78:13]
C
Let's see here. He has hit 532. Not as many as you'd think.
- [78:17]
B
That's really not even close to what I thought.
- [78:19]
C
The other two names, Larry Markkinen. Kind of forget he's seven foot.
- [78:24]
B
But he is seven feet.
- [78:26]
C
That's what it says on Basketball Reference. And Channing Fry.
- [78:29]
B
Chaining Fry.
- [78:30]
C
And the other name.
- [78:34]
B
I would have not. I would have not gotten a Channing Fry.
- [78:37]
C
What about poor Zingus? Because he actually has 950.
- [78:40]
B
Oh, wow. Zinger.
- [78:42]
C
Yeah, Zinger. Okay, Andrew, last pick goes to you. You can cut it to seven to four as the final score.
- [78:49]
B
Okay.
- [78:50]
C
Okay. Question number six. The Clippers invested the 50th pick in this year's draft in Kobe Sanders, who is the first NBA player with the last name Sanders since Larry Sanders. One of my favorite players of all time. Larry Sanders finished seventh in Defensive Player of the Year voting in 2013. We're going to name the six players who finished ahead of him. All right, so how this works, Andrew, you're going to give me a name. Then Law will give me a name. We'll go back and forth to one of you stumbles. So this is 2013 defensive player of the year. Larry Sanders was seventh. We're going to name the top six vote getters.
- [79:29]
B
Wow, this is. This is nuts. What am I. What am I naming again?
- [79:41]
C
I mean, you could name who won Defensive player of the year in 2013 if you want to, but you could also name who got second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth.
- [79:49]
B
Okay. Dwight Howard.
- [79:50]
C
No.
- [79:51]
B
Oh, wait, no, this is 13. No, too late.
- [79:54]
C
Andrew bad.
- [79:55]
B
Dang it.
- [79:56]
C
Okay, Law, you just have to name one name.
- [79:59]
D
Just gotta name one.
- [80:02]
B
Why did I say Dwight Howard?
- [80:06]
D
2013. 2013.
- [80:07]
B
That's when he's on the Lakers.
- [80:10]
D
Marcus. Embarrassing.
- [80:12]
C
Yes. This was the Mark Gasol year. No. There we go. Final score, 8 to 2. Andrew, over the last two times we've played. Yeah, I think the score is like 213 or something. That sounds like a score for your Oklahoma State Cowboys the way they've been playing.
- [80:35]
B
Why do you got to bring that into this? That's so rude, dude. Why you got to bring this into this? And. And.
- [80:42]
D
Hey, Andrew. Hey. We were talking about being 40.
- [80:49]
B
Yeah, I know.
- [80:51]
C
The other names, if you're interested. Defensive Player of the year 2013. LeBron was second that year.
- [80:56]
B
Wow.
- [80:57]
C
Serge Ibaka, third. Joaquim Noah, fourth. Tony Allen, fifth. And Tim Duncan in Sixth.
- [81:03]
B
And of course, Larry Sanders. These are good names. Larry Sanders. Did he make the all defense team?
- [81:12]
C
I think he did.
- [81:14]
B
Larry Sanders made the all defense team.
- [81:16]
C
Let me see. Let me see. I'm going to his. No, he didn't. Sorry.
- [81:20]
B
Those are weird. That's so weird that you can be fifth and deep boy and not.
- [81:25]
C
Oh, he was seven. Yeah, he had a great season though. He, he was basically 10 and 10 and he had three blocks per game. It was a great season.
- [81:34]
B
Wow.
- [81:34]
D
He played 55 games the rest of his career after that.
- [81:38]
C
By choice though.
- [81:39]
B
Yeah.
- [81:40]
C
He has to get out of his contract. He's in. He's in. I looked him up because I wanted to see where he was. He's in Taiwan. He joined the Taiwan Basketball League.
- [81:48]
B
Wow. That's awesome. That's awesome. Hey, something else. That's awesome. Training camp starts this next week in the NBA. Be sure to follow law. For all the exciting things happening around the Los Angeles Clippers, we know that there will be things said on Monday with the Los Angeles Clippers.
- [82:14]
D
Law.
- [82:14]
B
Thanks so much for joining us. Hey, please leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts. We would very much appreciate that. We're really close to being back every single week. We will not be back next week, but the following week. And then we'll be super close to starting Slammin Jam every week with the NBA Daily back in full swing. So stick with us as we get through all of our season previews. We'll have a season preview for every single team, so you can check that out on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, all those places. So please check those out and we'll talk to you guys again in two weeks.
- [83:04]
A
Trimble knows that in the industries we all depend on where speed counts, every turn matters. Trimble is the technology company that connects your physical and digital worlds so you can see what's coming. Take intelligent action and get hard work done faster than you ever thought possible. Check them out@trimble.com ready to turn data points into decision points, turn deadlines into finish lines and turn possibilities into profits. Then turn to Trimble. Trimble confidence at every turn only.
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Boost Mobile. Boost Mobile will give you a free year of service. Free year when you buy a new 5G phone. New 5G phone.
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Enough.
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But I'm your hype man. When you purchase an eligible device, you get $25 off every month for 12.
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Months with credits totaling one year of free service.
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Taxes extra for the device and service plan online only.
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Hey, it's Maya and Sim from the.
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Girls that Invest Podcast if you are an IT or security pro, you know.
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