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- [00:00]
Jake Stauch
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com creditcard thank you for calling
- [00:25]
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- [00:54]
Jake Stauch
I'm Jake Stauch, co founder and CEO of Serval. We built Cerval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding password resets, access to applications. My laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. It desperately wants to automate this work and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Cerval, it becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run it. We guarantee you'll automate 50% of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four week pilot. Go to servil.com acast that's S E-R-V-A-L.com acast.
- [01:53]
Jason Gallagher
Foreign.
- [02:04]
Andrew Schlect
Welcome to the morning shoot around here on the athletic NBA Daily. We're live. This is a much different vibe than, than, than typical. Here we've got me, your host Andrew Schlect. Also Jason Gallagher joining us today for the pod, which is very exciting. This is an Emmy award winning director. He's of course the, the producer for Mind the game with Lebron James, Steve Nash. Also you do like the pod with Sue Bird and Old man in the three. And you've, you've done lots of things Halle Luca.
- [02:45]
Jason Gallagher
That's right. It was sung on the broadcast the other night. Yeah.
- [02:48]
Andrew Schlect
Okay, How Did. How did that even come to be?
- [02:51]
Jason Gallagher
Yeah, I actually don't know. Jamal Crawford said he was sort of talking about the spurs and the way that their fan base sort of shows up for the Mavs. What up?
- [03:04]
Andrew Schlect
S is with us now.
- [03:07]
Jason Gallagher
Anyways, and so, and so they were like, yeah, Dallas used to do something similar where a group of fans would sing Hallelujah, which is false. A group of one fan saying, hello, me. Yeah, and. And that's how that went. But he sang it Shout Out. It always makes me a little sad when that song comes up.
- [03:25]
Andrew Schlect
But, yeah, we move as it. As it should make you feel that way.
- [03:30]
Co-host/Analyst
So I have a suggestion for another song.
- [03:33]
Jason Gallagher
Oh, yeah, let's do.
- [03:35]
Co-host/Analyst
Has nothing to do with okc, though, unfortunately.
- [03:37]
Andrew Schlect
Okay, that's okay.
- [03:38]
Co-host/Analyst
Okay, Dave. Dave and I have thought of American Jokic for Derek Queen. All right. And we've been waiting to pitch this to you. It's been years. We've been waiting to pitch this to you in the, in the, in the. In the realm of, like, American Woman.
- [03:57]
Jason Gallagher
Yeah, I got that.
- [03:57]
Co-host/Analyst
But. Okay. All right. There you go. So think about it. Just, Just, you know, let it, let it. While you're sipping on your tea, let it ruminate, you know, think about American Yokage.
- [04:09]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah.
- [04:09]
Co-host/Analyst
Anyways, you hear it?
- [04:10]
Jason Gallagher
I hear it. I hear it. I love it. I hope lives up to that.
- [04:14]
Andrew Schlect
I know, I know.
- [04:15]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, I know. How Luca was special. It was a special moment. I agree.
- [04:19]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah. It's still pretty special. So, Jason, I ran into you at the. At game five the other night.
- [04:26]
Jason Gallagher
Yeah.
- [04:27]
Andrew Schlect
And you just told me you need to be. You need to be on a pod. We need to. We need to talk about some, Some discourse. And so I wanted. I was like, okay, I need to give you a proper stage. I want you to talk the people of the NBA Daily. So here we are this morning. We've got. We've got you for maybe, like, another 20 minutes, so let's discuss what's. What's on your mind.
- [04:51]
Jason Gallagher
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, here's the deal. I, I what, what's particularly interesting to me about, it's teaching me more about society as a whole, which is I get on NBA Twitter, you know, in the mornings, and I'll. And I'll read, and I'll see a lot of aggregate clipping from the ESPN morning shows. And a lot of my NBA timeline is people dunking on the discourse and saying, like, wow, how pathetic. Blah, blah, blah. Obviously, ESPN is in the business of, of growing in their platform and getting clicks and getting views and that's why they target those things. And then I get on NBA Twitter after say a Thunder spurs game, particularly if the Thunder win and it basically turns into first take. And I've just kind of come to the realization that that is why first takes never going to go away is because none of us are actually better than first take. We all have it in our bloodstream to crave these salacious top. Because the truth of the matter is that this is one of my favorite basketball series I've ever watched. The adjustments game to game actually make me excited to watch the next game. You can trace it back to game one in which they allowed a ton of physicality and get both games one and two and game one, ho hum, what an amazing series. I'll let you guess who won that one. Game two, same kind of level of physicality, maybe a little bit more on Wimby when it came to Hartenstein. And then all of a sudden there was an NBA crisis afoot. And the crisis was I can't believe we're allowing this level of physicality, which is ironic in itself because we've all claimed we want that. And then yeah, yeah, we earned in games three and four, the refs got heavily involved and in that, that sort of became the. What the series started to become about. And then game five obviously culminated with, as far as I could tell, the end of basketball as we knew it. And we have reached the levels of if the Thunder win, the NBA is going to have a problem on its hands. And that's when I've realized none of us, a lot of people that claim to love basketball, some of them are MVP voters by the way. Yeah, love basketball. And if you were to go down their timeline and if you were to check and see how much of the basketball are you actually talking about, how much of the adjustments gained a game? How much are you looking forward to seeing if Wimby can try to crack what the Thunder have done to him defensively, like inoffensively, to be honest. How, how much of that are they talking about? Because the game is 48 minutes long and I promise you the majority of the game there is unbelievable basketball going on. Okay? And then sometimes Tony Brothers gets involved and hey, fine. But also, have you never watched Tony Brothers? This happens. This just happens. It just, it just happens. He's such a, like I remember going to a game last playoffs in which he had a bad call against the Thunder and they put the camera on him and he looked at the camera like Jim Halpert, he Just kind of went like, the guy is. He did. That was. And so I just am at the point now where I'm like, you know what I hope. I hope first take goes on forever, because that's what we deserve. That is the. That is the kind of program we. We deserve as an NBA society. And I think that the discourse becoming about everything but the basketball is a. Is a shame. And it's a shame to. Honestly, to the NBA media that this is. This is what they're doing. It's just. It's just pathetic in every. Every freaking way. And you know what? I would just. Just assume. Let me just wrap up. Bill Simmons had Chuck Closerman on his podcast a couple months ago. And I'm a. I'm a fervent Luca defender. You all know this. And he said, I don't like Luka Doncic. You'd think I would, but I don't. I don't like him. And Dallas fans lost their mind. I much prefer that kind of discourse, to be honest. You don't like the guy? Just effing. Just say it. Just say it.
- [09:30]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah.
- [09:31]
Jason Gallagher
Stop acting like you love basketball. You're some sort of purist. You're not. If you are a purist, you would love this series, full stop.
- [09:38]
Co-host/Analyst
Yep.
- [09:39]
Jason Gallagher
Both teams have been amazing. Both.
- [09:41]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah. As if, like, they're trying to save basketball by what, tweeting about the refs?
- [09:48]
Jason Gallagher
Losers. I'm sorry.
- [09:50]
Co-host/Analyst
It's actually funny you say that. So there was. There was a tweet. I saw a shout out to Nikais Duncan, but Nikais tweeted. You saw the tweet too. So he was complaining about Tony Brothers and the call, and he's like, it's funny that the tweet that I made about Tony Brothers gained six times as much engagement as if I were to tweet about, hey, watch this play. Watch Wemby do this. Like, it just.
- [10:13]
Jason Gallagher
He actually.
- [10:13]
Jake Stauch
Right.
- [10:14]
Jason Gallagher
He actually said that his tweet about Tony Brothers got more engagement than all of his other tweets combined.
- [10:21]
Andrew Schlect
That's insane.
- [10:22]
Jason Gallagher
And he's been breaking down the series. Exactly. I mean, it's like. It's like this is sort of what we want. And it's. It's algorithm driven. It's. It's all that stuff. And what really drives me bananas are the. Are the ones that aren't. You know, you want to complain about a ref call, fine. I. We've all done it. Whatever. But when that's exclusively what you're talking about, I just, like, I. I've Kind of had enough. I'm like. And then. And then to see Stefan Castle engaging in it, and it's like, that's how, you know, the chips start to really fall is when the players start to get involved. And you know what? At least they have an excuse. Their emotional whatever. But I just am like, I can't believe that one of the best series I've seen a long time has been devolved into all of this mess.
- [11:08]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah.
- [11:08]
Jason Gallagher
And for talking about how a team is being treated unfairly versus another. But the. But the team that's. That's benefiting from it somehow shoots less free throws than every. Like, I just. I'm like, I don't get what's happening here.
- [11:23]
Co-host/Analyst
But it's psychosis.
- [11:25]
Jason Gallagher
It's psychosis. Andrew will tell you because he's at the games. I'm at the games. When you're at the games, you don't really feel it. Now, granted. But my situation is, is that I usually sit around where the opposing team's families sit. That's usually where I'm plopped and shout out the Vassell family because they are a hoot to sit next to crash in the best way possible. And they're always dapping up the fans and blah, blah, blah. When Stefan Castle dunked on Hardenstein, I believe.
- [11:59]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah.
- [12:00]
Jason Gallagher
They turned around and they made everyone high five them. They were like, you know, that was awesome. Like, they were. They were the best and cool. At no point is there a conversation about, like, oh, boy, something. Something terrible is afoot here. Like, no, everybody's watching basketball into it. I don't even see, like, Mitch Johnson lost his mind. I would say, like, that's fine, but, like, you're not seeing the coaches, like, overly freak out on some of these calls. Like, they're. It's. It's just a good basketball series, and it's really, really weird. It's really, really frustrating. I don't. I don't personally get it at all. So, yeah, that's it.
- [12:39]
Co-host/Analyst
Jason, I'm kind of curious because, you know, you already alluded to it with, like, the. The media first take approach of this, and I wonder if it's because, like, why does this only happen in basketball? Because if you. I don't necessarily watch a ton of football content, but if you watch football content, it's like, there is a heavy focus on what happened in the game, how this guy performed.
- [13:00]
Andrew Schlect
Sure.
- [13:01]
Co-host/Analyst
There is the big topic conversations of, oh, this guy doesn't deserve mvp, or there was this offensive interference or defensive interference, whatever. But it doesn't feel like it's, as, I guess, saturated with ref talk and hot take phenomenon as basketball is. Why do you think NBA somehow lends itself to that conversation more? I don't know if you have a theory, but I'm just curious.
- [13:27]
Jason Gallagher
It's a, it's a little bit of a. A weird theory, but. And it's not original to, to me. I can't believe I'm referencing Chuck Klosterman again, but I'm gonna. He. He has, he has a book about American football and its impact on. On the country and the culture, basically. And he used to say. He said this on, on one of Bill's podcasts not long ago. And that he used to believe like a decade ago he believed that the NBA would one day surpass the NFL because of the personalities involved. And then it flipped for him. He was basically like, no. By the NFL making its fans like, fall in love with the team, the, the color of the helmet rather than who's under the helmet. That's how you get the consistency of, of fandom and love and viewership and engagement from NFL fans. And I think that translates to media too, is that they don't have to dig deep in their bag when it's not necessarily about what somebody's made of versus bubble. Now they still engage in it, but I don't think they need to p that as frequently.
- [14:43]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, as often.
- [14:43]
Jason Gallagher
The NBA, it's such a personality driven league that you start to sort of treat it like, in my opinion, you start to sort of treat it like it's a Real Housewives thing, especially when you don't have the caliber of personality. And, and this was sort of getting to his point where it's like. Well, he believes that, that, you know, the NBA sort of been lacking in like strong dominant personalities. Especially when you look at like the two best players in the league being Jokic and Shay. I mean that, by the way, they are the pointed two best players in the NBA and frankly, they're not like the most charismatic personalities. And so what do you do? You have to dig deep in your bag and figure out, I mean, there's a reason why LeBron's still like a first take topic right now, even though you're not playing and we're in the conference finals. So. And I think that they're going to have, they're gonna, they have to dig deep into these like, weird, salacious storylines to get people engaged. And you see it across the board and man, I could go on and on about this. But I just think it's like legit problem if this is like the way that the NBA is being talked about. And I do see it trickle down. You know, Stephen A. Smith makes a lot of money, but there's a lot of NBA media members that don't. And life is scary. AI is scary. They need clicks, they need engagement, they need it like lifeblood, you know. And so I'm sorry, but like, I do believe that all of that is intertwined and tied in. And sometimes I'm very empathetic to people that, you know, have to engage in that to just stay relevant. I mean, I ran a. I, I've run many basketball YouTube channels. Yeah. You know, it's. Yeah. JJ and I used to have a rule where I was like, funny because he's the coach at Lakers. But I used to be like, you gotta talk about the Lakers because we need a little. And he'll be like, I want to talk about the Magic defense. I'm like, right, but we would like people to put on video. Can you talk about the. And we used to have kind of a one for you, one for me kind of thing.
- [16:50]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like a. That's like a Hollywood actor. It's like I do one for me and do one for the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [16:56]
Jason Gallagher
Now I found a cheat code to this. You ready? Get LeBron James to host the podcast.
- [17:01]
Co-host/Analyst
Very good cheat code.
- [17:03]
Jason Gallagher
All of a sudden it might help
- [17:06]
Andrew Schlect
that he plays for the Lakers too, you know?
- [17:08]
Jason Gallagher
Exactly. So I just, I don't know, man. I think that, I think that these, like, I really do believe that there is that the NBA media, it being so personality driven, it just causes you to really reach at times. And we start not. I did not intend on plugging Mind the Game, but genuinely the conversation when it started was, look, we're not always perfect with our approach. By no means but that, but the central focus is that we are going to celebrate basketball. Yeah. A lot of people will say it's an X's no show. It's really not. It's. It's more of a. We want to, we want to talk about what the good things of basketball and the reality of basketball and what makes basketball awesome. That's what makes it awesome. Yeah. So that's why you won't really. You normally don't see, you know, anyone on the show bashing players unless it's Ron harper, I guess, LeBron kind of. But I, I just, I, I think it's a really big need and I, and I'VE really appreciated some of the newer shows, you know, the, the NBA on prime broadcast. I really like that have chosen to take the route of like, at least attempt. I know that they, you know, they also talk about some of this discourse stuff, but there is an attempt to educate, there's an attempt to appreciate. And that to me is like really cool. And I, I just, I don't know. I, I really, I really was hoping that after Game 1, the spurs won and I was really hoping, like, oh man, this is going to be fun. Time to be a basketball fan. And by game five, it's been like, I can't get on the Internet.
- [18:47]
Co-host/Analyst
I can't get somehow unplug yourself from the Internet and the discourse. It's really fun, but it's awesome. It's impossible, it's almost impossible in our field of work to do that. And also, you know, I deserve credit, Castle.
- [19:02]
Jason Gallagher
The way they defended Shay and made his life hard. He. His life is hard out there.
- [19:07]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, he's actually. This is the best I've seen anybody guard Shay.
- [19:11]
Jason Gallagher
Yeah. In his determination to continue to play the role he's playing, like he played some of that last game, the start to that game was one of the worst I've seen. And he was in his head. And it wasn't just the missed shots, it was the turnovers. It was, it was everything that made his life hard. What I appreciated about his performance is that even if his, even if the outcome doesn't go his way, his approach never really changed. It was like, I have to be head of Snake. Like, I have to do this and you know, but, but again, it's a chess match that is like, really, really cool to watch. And I'm, I'm like genuinely so excited. I, I personally want the Thunder to win because our town is much, much, much more fun when they're in the finals. But yeah, it's, it's like, I don't get it. I, I like, I wish people were like looking forward to seeing if the Thunder, if the spurs come out aggressively instead of like, well, Scott Foster's reffing the game. So like, you know, and it's like, oh my go.
- [20:14]
Co-host/Analyst
I'm a sucker for the storytelling aspect of sports. And even if you just like the stories, like the fact that the Thunder are going to be potentially in back to back finals for the first time since the warriors did it is a story in itself. It like above everything else. Even if you're like, okay, I don't necessarily know the basketball side as much as I want to. Hopefully, I'll learn. If you just want the stories, there are good stories out there to, like, follow and attach yourself to. It's funny you mentioned the Desperate Housewives thing. My wife loves housewives stuff. And so when I was watching OKC San Antonio, she's like, is. Is that Spurs Thunder? And then she's kind of doing the thing I do when the housewives are on standing and watching and then slowly creeps up and, like, sits on the couch. So someone who doesn't even like basketball is geared into this series maybe for a bad reason, because of. Of. Of the discourse. You know, as weird as that sounds, it's.
- [21:13]
Jason Gallagher
Well, I mean, look at the numbers.
- [21:14]
Andrew Schlect
Look at the numbers for the series. Like, people are. Are watching these games.
- [21:18]
Jason Gallagher
They're watching the hell out of these games. And look, if you're a fan, and let me. Let me peel one thing back. If you're a fan, go. Go online, say, it's rigged. That's your job. True. That's what you should be doing. I would do it if I was, like, that passionate about something from a fan perspective. But, like, if you're just, like, watching from la, like, give. Give me a effing break. I'm sorry, but, like, it's not. It's not. The basketball has much more do with. To do with the outcome than the refs. That is full stop. I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. It is. It is clearly why they're winning. Both teams are extremely physical. Like, let's get that out of the. Both teams are extremely physical. Yeah, both of their superstars sell calls. I, I. Shea falls. Wimby turns into the floppy, inflatable, like, guy at the outside of a car dealership. If he gets touched, I watch him. You watch him. And it's the. His move is the hands in the air, which is, again, not that dissimilar from Luca falling down or whatever people talk about falling down. Lucas, my guy, and he ended the 2024 playoffs with bandages on, like, every knee and elbow, everything, because he fell down so much. Like, this is not unique. Anything we're watching is unique. These two teams are hilariously similar, which is just really funny.
- [22:41]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, they're mirror images.
- [22:42]
Jason Gallagher
And there are going to be games where one is called a little bit more than the other. Now, the one thing that I think that the fans haven't. Again, if you're gonna gripe about. If you're gonna gripe about the refs, like, instead of enjoying the basketball, fine. Every player in the NBA has said the same thing. They've talked about it on Mind the Game. It's really just the inconsistency from game to game. Yeah, that's probably what the most frustrating thing is, and where there's a valid conversation to be had about, how do you. How can we come to a place where there's an actual letter of the law so we know how to play basketball? Stefan Castle said that thing about Shea, and maybe he felt that way in that one game, but, like, I watched the game. I watched Game 4, and he was allowed to do all of that stuff. So in some ways, I understand why it's frustrating when he's like, there's nine minutes left. I have five fouls, and I've been playing defense the same way I've been playing the entire series. Why is that the case? That's a legitimate gripe, but it's also, like, not unique to the Spurs. Every team complains about that exact thing. Yeah, you don't know how to defend. You don't know how to defend people. And Scott Foster's reffing tonight, and I'll be interested to see if he lets Hartenstein get away with stuff. But, like, it's it. That's the bummer of the NBA right now in terms of officiating is the inconsistency at night, at night, in and out.
- [24:00]
Andrew Schlect
Now, that's always been a thing, though. And that's where, like, the veteran teams understand, like, as you get like, five or six minutes into the game, like, how's this being called? How do we need to adjust to keep our guys on the court or to gain an advantage? And the Thunder, we're able to figure that out. Some of the reason that the spurs happen is because they haven't been through this. You know, that should be part of, like, this. Like, this. We should be able to tell stories about what's happening and not, like, talk about the refs. I totally agree. And, like, we have two of the best players to, like, ever touch a basketball playing in this series right now. We have, like, two of, like, the best supporting cast, Two of the best young supporting casts in the history of the game are playing against each other right now. Like, we want to talk about, like, the spurs age. The Thunder are really young, too.
- [24:45]
Gradient FC Sponsor
Yeah.
- [24:45]
Andrew Schlect
And, like, for what's happening, for these two teams to be at the top of the league, and I don't know where they both rank as far as, like, average age goes, I'd be interested to see the average age of, like, the guys who are Actually playing the minutes just because the spurs have, like, so many old guys at the end of the bench. But, like, it's got. I mean, they have to be, like, top as far as young.
- [25:06]
Co-host/Analyst
As far as teams that have gotten this far, they're like, the youngest ever.
- [25:09]
Jason Gallagher
I mean.
- [25:09]
Co-host/Analyst
I mean, that's.
- [25:10]
Jason Gallagher
Yeah, it's so cool to watch, and. But the Thunder were that way, too. In their. In their previous runs. They were the youngest ever.
- [25:17]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah.
- [25:17]
Jason Gallagher
If I was storytelling this series, honestly, this is. Sorry for getting nerdy. This is the lightsaber fight between Obi Wan and Anakin happening right. Versus Master and everything that the spurs are trying to build. Basically, the Thunder did it just a little bit before them. And you're seeing before I'm watching the spurs, and I'm going in my head, I'm going, they need Caruso. They need. I'm not sure the Thunder would have a ring without Caruso. That's bad.
- [25:48]
Andrew Schlect
I don't think they would. I don't think.
- [25:50]
Jason Gallagher
Exactly. So I think that, like, you're seeing this. What. What Andrew said, you have. You have an amazing superstar. An amazing superstar talent around. And what's interesting about the talent is the perimeter defender for the Spurs. People can say that's the Thunder play style is to play physical. Watch the Spurs. They're trying to emulate what the Thunder are doing stylistically. Stylistically, yeah. Especially defensively. And what we're discovering just is that some of that veteran tough. You know, toughness actually really comes into play sometimes. And you're seeing that lacking in the Spurs. Granted, they still could win this series, but, like. And that's what makes this such an amazing clash and why I do compare it to one of my favorite Star wars scenes ever, is because can. Can the. The. The Padawan actually defeat the Master? Can Mitch Johnson out. Tactician Mark Dagnault. The. That's the story that should be being told, not let's find the super slow mo. By the way, I know I have to go. If you ever put a super slow mo video on me playing basketball, I would. It would look like I was a murderer there because I have no control over my limbs. I am so old, I fall on people all the time. It's. I've stopped closing out on shots because I can't stop if they fake, I've discovered. So I just kind of put a hand up in the air. And I'm just saying that, like, the idea that either of these teams are actually trying to hurt the other is crazy. Except for Plumly. Let's Be real.
- [27:23]
Andrew Schlect
But.
- [27:23]
Jason Gallagher
Yeah, but it's just. It's just a. It's crazy. I'm really looking forward to game six tonight, I think.
- [27:30]
Co-host/Analyst
Who's. Who's Padme in this situation?
- [27:33]
Andrew Schlect
Who's Padme?
- [27:35]
Jason Gallagher
Who is Padme? I don't know.
- [27:40]
Andrew Schlect
Lindy Waters. Yeah.
- [27:41]
Co-host/Analyst
Lindy Waters is Padman.
- [27:43]
Jason Gallagher
Yeah, exactly.
- [27:44]
Co-host/Analyst
Oh, that's true. He played football, you know.
- [27:45]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah.
- [27:46]
Co-host/Analyst
Why not? Yeah.
- [27:47]
Jason Gallagher
Yeah. I love that. Okay, I've gotta go. Thanks for having me, y'. All. Thanks for letting me just yell.
- [27:52]
Andrew Schlect
Thank you, Jason.
- [27:53]
Jason Gallagher
Nonsensical. But what else?
- [27:55]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, no, thanks for coming on, man.
- [27:56]
Andrew Schlect
Thanks, Jason.
- [27:57]
Jason Gallagher
Boys.
- [27:57]
Andrew Schlect
Appreciate it. Yep. All right, we're gonna take a break. We come back, gonna run through a couple more numbers, preview this game a little bit more, and maybe try to get us to talk about the Raptors. I don't know.
- [28:12]
Jason Gallagher
We'll be right back.
- [28:12]
Co-host/Analyst
Nah.
- [28:17]
Jake Stauch
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- [30:33]
Andrew Schlect
And we're back after that quick break. You know, I got triggered earlier today as I saw the stat of Shay having more free throws made than field goals made.
- [30:45]
Co-host/Analyst
I saw that as well. I saw your tweet, your subsequent tweet.
- [30:48]
Andrew Schlect
People are acting like that is like something that is like, never happened. And people are quote, tweeting it, saying how shameful it is. It's like, do you not know how many times this has happened in the history of the league? Even.
- [31:01]
Co-host/Analyst
This is part of the psychosis thing that we were talking about earlier.
- [31:03]
Andrew Schlect
It really is.
- [31:04]
Co-host/Analyst
There's just. You take information, if it tells you what you want it to, you keep it as. As close to your heart as possible. You know, it's.
- [31:13]
Jason Gallagher
It's crazy.
- [31:14]
Andrew Schlect
There's a long list of players that have done this, including Manu Ginobili, who played for the San Antonio Spurs. I don't.
- [31:21]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah.
- [31:21]
Andrew Schlect
And obviously, like, Twitter didn't exist then. No one was freaking out about it then. Like, I get that. But like, Manu did this. Chauncey Billups, a player that I don't think anybody would have guessed that did this.
- [31:33]
Co-host/Analyst
No.
- [31:34]
Andrew Schlect
Six times.
- [31:35]
Co-host/Analyst
That's shocking to me, honestly, is. I can't remember. I can't think of Chauncey Billups as a free throw merchant. I know that's not what I think of when I think. Think of Johnson.
- [31:43]
Andrew Schlect
Six times he made more free throws than field goals in the playoffs in 03.04, 06, 07, 08, 09.
- [31:50]
Co-host/Analyst
That's crazy.
- [31:51]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah.
- [31:52]
Co-host/Analyst
That's insane.
- [31:52]
Andrew Schlect
Dirk did it in 06. Jimmy. Jimmy Butler did it in the bubble. James Harden, which I don't think. I think he would have been like, maybe the first person that people would guess he did it. He's done it three times. One was when he was on the Thunder in 12, and they did it in 15 and 17. David Robinson did it in 99. Alonzo Morning, Patrick Ewing did it in 2000, Mutombo in 01, Tim Duncan in 02, and Paul Pearson 03. So, like, this has happened a lot.
- [32:23]
Co-host/Analyst
Yep.
- [32:23]
Andrew Schlect
And it's really not happened all that much recently. Which, like, 2020 was, like, the most recently that this happened. But it's just funny to me that this was, like, how shameful this is, that this is happening right now. This is something that's happened throughout the history of the league. And if you could, I can't pull it back all the way past 97 on NBA.com, but there's got to be a way to. To find those earlier stats where, like, I'm sure it happened a lot throughout the history of the league. Now, Michael Jordan didn't do it and Kobe Bryant didn't do it. Part of the reason they didn't, because they took a ton of shots like these guys. I mean, right Now, Shea's taking 18 per game. MJ took 25 a game. Yep. Yeah, so that's absurd. Yeah. Some of it is just, like, the pure volume because they. They took up. Those guys took a ton of free throws, but, like, the volume of shots that they got dwarfed what Shay's doing right now. But, yeah, I don't know.
- [33:20]
Jason Gallagher
This is a great series.
- [33:21]
Andrew Schlect
What. Okay, what about, like, the. The actual basketball are you most looking forward to tonight when it comes to Thunder Spurs?
- [33:29]
Co-host/Analyst
Just Wemby and how he can solve the problem of the Thunder? Uh, I mean, I. I think especially in game five, you saw what they did with Hartenstein in that short roll area, like, him settling into those floaters. What that did for. For Wemby defensively, again, just moving him a few feet this way or a few feet that way makes it so that when guys are attacking the basket, like, let's say it's Case and Wallace attacking a closeout, or it's Alex Caruso attacking a closeout that Wemby has to move to get to the point to block their shot. And I. I think that's a huge difference when it comes to one, drawing fouls and two, getting Wemby out of position so that other guys can create open looks, too. So that aspect defensively, like, how much are they going to. Because the counter to that is like, hey, Isaiah hartenstein, go score 25 points on us. Sure, we'll live with the short roll jump shots. I know those are almost automatic for him. I think he might be shooting, like, 80% on those. I don't know what the actual number is, but the counter to that is just living with Hartenstein hitting those floaters and just saying, fine, we'll accept the fact that Hartenstein is going to score 25, but we will make sure Wemby is camped out in the pain as Always. And then on the other side, it's like offensively, I really do think how much he's able to get to his three point shot will open up so much for him. All of the good games he's had in the series have been games where he started out with a really great first quarter that was based on three point shooting. Like especially in game four, like he knocked down a couple of triples to start the game. In game one, he knocked down a couple triples to start the game. And you see how that can create rhythm for him. So I think that's the thing. It's like what version of Wemby do we get? Because we've talked about it over the last couple of days. The cardio aspect is clearly there. It's definitely not. He looks tired, you know, especially in game five, he looked tired. How do you, how do you get him going in this all important game? That's probably the best question. Both sides, offense and defense.
- [35:32]
Andrew Schlect
I, I expect a huge game from Wimby tonight. Yeah, I expect him to like really show up. I think it's going to be a really, really big game and it's going to be about like the spurs have done a good job adjusting to the Thunder and vice versa. And the, the Thunder found, I mean one way the Thunder kind of like offensively found like a wrinkle is like they would start like they were running like a traditional horn set where you're bringing the two bigs up and then once they like started their on ball possession where like Wimby's guarding on ball, they would flip the ball over to the, to the other big on the other side of the court and then they would run a DHO with that, with that big. So it was like, it's like hearts taking the screen. But then they flip the ball over to Jay Will who is like then now running a Dho for Jared McCain. So it like starts off as this like Shay Dho, you know, pick and roll situation on one side, they flip it quickly and Wimby's on the other side. And so now the Thunder are in an advantage. There was a, there's a play that I think was, it was a very cool play where Jay Will got the ball in the middle of the court, you know, on this dho and he like touched past it back to the corner, you know, for a three and like that was off of that action. And so I'm like, like curious to see how. Because the Thunder basically ran that play like a ton of times in the game. So, like, they. They like to have the double bigs in there for the purposes of kind of, like, spamming that play. And so I'm curious to see if they try to run that again. And how do the spurs, like, counter that? Because, like, you don't necessarily want to counter it with Wimby, like, staying in the middle of the floor waiting for the other side, because then you could just run. Like, they could kind of read it with, like, okay, is Wimby guarding this one or is he guarding that one? Yeah, like, it's going to be hard for him to guard both. So that, that to me is like a tactical adjustment that the Thunder have made throughout this series that's like, really helped them kind of flip the floor a little bit when Wimby's the defender. And so, like, there's going to be, like, little things here and there. There's not going to be, like, any giant things that are going to happen between these two teams. They've played now 10 times.
- [37:42]
Co-host/Analyst
Yep. And so an exhausting amount of times they've played. They've played so much that they know each other in Trinity.
- [37:47]
Andrew Schlect
They know each other too well. And I talked a minute, several of the players about it after the game. It's like, yeah, we, we know each other now. It's just about, like, who can bring the energy and, like, who is going to defensively bring it offensively, who's going to be the aggressor. It feels like they've taken turns being the aggressor almost throughout this whole series and now, like, tonight. And I actually, I agreed with Dave. You guys talked about, like, who needs to.
- [38:15]
Co-host/Analyst
Oh, who needs. Who needs to step up the most?
- [38:17]
Andrew Schlect
I kind of am with Dave. I think that Shay needs to have a big game. This, like, it. He hasn't had, like, a. In this particular run. Now, Shea had had many games like this in the, like, people maybe forget the finals where the Thunder were down in Game 4. They're about to go down 3:1 to the Pacers, and Shay was, like, unbelievable down the stretch. Like, that was like, one of, like, the legacy defining games for him. Like, can Shea have a legacy defining game tonight, or does Wimby have the legacy defining game tonight? Like, to me, that's what I would like to see from one or the other is like, do we. Do we get, like, an epic game between these, like, two Titans and that it's not necessarily like, McCain and Caruso and Hartenstein, like, lifting them up where, like, Shay's had good games. He hasn't had, like, a legacy game, you know, throughout this, this run so far.
- [39:13]
Co-host/Analyst
Who do you think, what team do you think has done a better job against the other star? Because I would say the spurs have done a better job against Shea than the Thunder have done against Wemby. Although, you know, we just talked about what the counters that OKC has done to get Wemby out a little bit. But what do you think?
- [39:30]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah, I mean, like, you can look at just the scoring from Shea, which is like, what is special about him. He hasn't really been able to do it. And so, yeah, I think they've done a tremendous job on Shea. I think that they. Castle makes things so hard for Shay that he has to, like, go find free throws, you know, I mean, and you can think that's shameful or whatever, but the fact is, like, part of the reason Thunder won this last game in Game 5 was that Shea found the free throw line a lot and he was able to get there. And you're. You need to win in whatever way you can. When you're in the conference finals and a battle like this, if you win because you shoot 20 free throws, so be it. Like, none of those guys care. I mean, like, I'm spending time, like, around these players, around people that are closer to these teams. Like, no one's sitting around, like, man, you know, I. I like that we won, but I wish that it was on less free throws, you know, by
- [40:27]
Co-host/Analyst
the way, no one will remember, I mean, from the point that you made earlier about free throw rate and the field goals versus free throws thing, no one's going to remember. No one's going to care about this free throw stuff at all. Yeah, so actually, while you were talking, I just wanted to search it up. I wanted to see how comparable it was. So Shea, in this playoff run has taken over 18 shots per game. His free throw rate is 46%, which means he gets to the free throw line, you know, quite a bit, obviously. He also takes 10 free throw attempts per game. How many players do you think in NBA history have done that? So taken over 18 shots, had a free throw rate of 46 or more, and taken over 10 free throw attempts per game.
- [41:11]
Andrew Schlect
Just.
- [41:11]
Jason Gallagher
Can you.
- [41:12]
Co-host/Analyst
Can you guess maybe not how many players, but how many times that's happened?
- [41:16]
Andrew Schlect
I don't know, 26, 50. 50 times.
- [41:21]
Co-host/Analyst
50 times it's happened.
- [41:22]
Jason Gallagher
Wow.
- [41:22]
Co-host/Analyst
The amount of players is so. There's like, Bob Cousy has done it three times. LeBron James has done it six times. Michael Jordan has done it three times. Oscar Robertson has done it three times. Jerry west did it six times. Russell Westbrook did it once. Jerry Stackhouse did it once. Bernard King did it once. These are all, these are all guards and wings, by the way. I excluded the big men because big men obviously draw free throws much more. You know, and so my point here is that a lot of the greatest players of all time, James Harden, Allen Iverson, those are guys in there too. A lot of the greatest scoring guards and wings of all time have done exactly this and arguably sometimes worse. You know, like for example, in the 1984, 1985 season, Michael Jordan took 20 shots per game. Okay. Do you know of the 20 shots he took, how many free throws he drew? No, it was only a four game series. They got swept. The Bulls got swept in that. But he took 16 free throws a game.
- [42:27]
Andrew Schlect
Oh my gosh.
- [42:29]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, he had a 74 free throw rate, so, you know, nobody was talking about him. LeBron James in the 2008, 2009 season took 22 shots per game. He had a free throw. He took 14 free throws a game. 63% free throw rate.
- [42:48]
Andrew Schlect
Wow.
- [42:48]
Co-host/Analyst
So, like they're just guys who very clearly are very good at basketball. All time players, right? Michael Jordan, LeBron. People think of them as the two greatest players of all time. They got a lot of free throws.
- [43:02]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah, that's been.
- [43:03]
Co-host/Analyst
Because it was hard to stop them.
- [43:05]
Andrew Schlect
It's been part of the game. And like teams are going to sell out like physically to stop these guys. And part of the way that you become unstoppable is that as you're doing that, as you're taking away shots, as you're taking away like the spots that they want to get to, they get there anyways and you foul them. Like that's just part, that's been part of the league for so long and it continues to be part of the league with this archetype of player. You know, like a lot of the guys that you mentioned are like these like, like on ball guards that are just like masters of getting to their spots. And like Shay is like the next evolution of that.
- [43:45]
Co-host/Analyst
Yep, exactly. Anyways, Michael Jordan was a free throw merchant. Let's, let's re, re.
- [43:54]
Andrew Schlect
Make the shirt. Make the shirt. Michael Jordan was a free throw merchant. You think he's the goat, but listen.
- [44:00]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, it's a, it's a free throw merchant. Exactly.
- [44:02]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah. But yeah, in closing, just try to enjoy the basketball tonight because like, it's, it's, it's, it is incredible basketball. The Fan bases are like, both incredible. I got to experience the spurs fan base who was. It was the craziest, like, post game experience I've ever had. And I saw a championship one in my city. And I'll tell you, the spurs after game four celebrated as if they won the final championship to ever exist in the NBA. Like, I had never seen a. A city celebrate like that. It was unbelievable. Like, the every. I don't know how many. I mean, they were selling like a ton of flags. Like, they had the. Everyone had giant flags and they're hanging out of their cars. There was a. A Spurs muppet that was just like hanging out the window. Somebody's just like having this Muppet cheer out the window. It's just like what happening, like, is. It was. Honestly, it was amazing. It was so cool to see, like, how passionate they are. And then like in Paycom for game five, it was so loud. Like, the crowd was so into it. It was amazing to experience that. So, like, we have these elite crowds, we have these elite teams. We have great coaching on both sides. I feel like both of these, like, young, up and coming coaches are already two of the best in the league.
- [45:26]
Jason Gallagher
So it's.
- [45:26]
Andrew Schlect
It's. Along with the superstars and the role players, all of it. And the Thunder have been building toward this for a long time. Presti in like 22, like at. Whenever the Thunder, after the Thunder lost, talked so much about physicality and how like, the Thunder aren't physical enough. Like, in order to win at the level they want to, like, they need to be more physical. They need to go get more physicality, which they did with Caruso and Hartenstein. But then like, internally they need to be more physical. And like, the spurs know that too. This is an organization that's won multiple championships. And like, go watch some of those spurs teams. Like, they were extremely physical and you just have to be in order to win at the highest level. That's just the way that like, the game is.
- [46:08]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah. My main takeaway from this series is that this is how these two teams are like the pinnacle of the sport right now. Every. Every all 28 teams that are watching this right now from home, except the New York Knicks are saying we need to build our rosters like this and maybe they fall into the trap of doing that. It's really hard to replicate what these two teams have done. But physicality, size on the wings, incredible perimeter defense, of course, shot blocking and rim protection. But size and being able to play bigger are all like, in just baked into how Basketball is played now. And you talk about. I mean, all season, we've talked about the high pace and how fast teams are playing and the amount of ground coverage that has truthfully forced a lot of injuries around the NBA. These two teams do it at the very best. Like, it's. It's not even close, you know, and there's a reason they won, what, 64 and 62 games respectively. These two teams dominated. And I agree. This is going to be awesome. Can I also ask you one thing? I've been to OKC for a game now, NBA Finals. It was incredible. Very loud. I think it was one of the loudest arenas that I've been a part of. You know, I've seen 2019 Finals Raptors. That's a very loud crowd that I was a part of, too. What is with the music selection in Oklahoma City?
- [47:30]
Andrew Schlect
Oh, boy.
- [47:31]
Co-host/Analyst
I don't know, because I know you're. You're a big titanium guy.
- [47:35]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah, listen, Titanium is very unique when it comes to the. The song selection. It has, like, a meaning behind it. And I. Oh, does it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:45]
Co-host/Analyst
Okay, okay. All right.
- [47:46]
Andrew Schlect
I. So I Talked to the DJ in OKC, the head DJ there. Shout out, MC1,
- [47:56]
Co-host/Analyst
shout out.
- [47:56]
Andrew Schlect
And I was like, okay, like, what's the deal? Like, are you. Are you deciding? So. So this is what happens. So Titanium has become, like, a thing. You guys all know the song Titanium Bulletproof? Anyways. Yeah, they play it after, like, a really big moment has happened. Mm. So, like, in this feels like the
- [48:18]
Co-host/Analyst
song they play when they know they're gonna win.
- [48:20]
Andrew Schlect
It's like the Kill Shot.
- [48:22]
Co-host/Analyst
Yes.
- [48:22]
Andrew Schlect
Song.
- [48:23]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah.
- [48:23]
Andrew Schlect
When they feel like, like they're up 12, there was just a big shot. The opposing team calls a timeout. It's titanium time. So here in Oklahoma, like, there's a lot.
- [48:34]
Co-host/Analyst
Have they ever played it more than once in a game? Sorry, that's another.
- [48:37]
Andrew Schlect
I don't think so. Not that I remember some. Well, I will say that to start some of the games last year in the playoffs, they would play it, like, pre game to get people hyped, but then they would save it for the titanium moment later.
- [48:50]
Co-host/Analyst
Okay. Okay.
- [48:52]
Andrew Schlect
So the way that MC1 explained it to me, he's like, in Oklahoma, and in the. Where there's tornadoes, you have like, your tornado watch, which is like, listen, there's conditions that could be favorable for a tornado. He's like, there's a titanium watch that's happening, and then there's like a titanium warning where it's like the thunder have like gained such momentum and if they hit a three here in the next, like couple possessions, it's going to be titanium time. So he said it's kind of like the, the tornado watch and the tornado warning happening.
- [49:28]
Co-host/Analyst
Wow.
- [49:29]
Jason Gallagher
Okay.
- [49:29]
Co-host/Analyst
Okay.
- [49:30]
Andrew Schlect
Aside from that, which I do very much approve of titanium. Of titanium.
- [49:34]
Co-host/Analyst
I like titanium. Yeah, Keep titanium.
- [49:36]
Jason Gallagher
Oh, it's great.
- [49:38]
Andrew Schlect
They've been playing an outrageous amount of new metal.
- [49:42]
Co-host/Analyst
Okay.
- [49:43]
Andrew Schlect
In you metal. And I just don't get it. I just, I just straight up don't understand.
- [49:51]
Co-host/Analyst
Maybe MC1 is going through a phase.
- [49:53]
Andrew Schlect
Dude, they were playing an outrageous amount of Papa Roach. And the complaining that happened from me about Papa Roach.
- [50:00]
Co-host/Analyst
Yeah, that's. That's bizarre.
- [50:01]
Andrew Schlect
I, I'm not here to say that I made Papa Roach stop, but I complained enough about it. They didn't play it in the last game.
- [50:11]
Co-host/Analyst
And so MC1 is listening.
- [50:13]
Andrew Schlect
MC1 might be listening. And I do. I do not want to hear any more Papa Roach being played. Now. They did play Linkin park, which is like a step in the right direction.
- [50:24]
Co-host/Analyst
Sure.
- [50:25]
Andrew Schlect
But it's like, why are we like, why are we obsessed with like 2007 to 2011 new metal right now? Like, what's happening?
- [50:34]
Co-host/Analyst
Anyways, he's going through a phase. Spotify gave him a playlist recommendation and he's like, I. This happens to me all the time. Yeah, I understand.
- [50:42]
Andrew Schlect
Yeah. So anyways, we're. We're trying to. To flush the new metal out of okc. So we'll. We'll see if that happens. I. I think we're getting a game seven and so I believe so as well.
- [50:53]
Jason Gallagher
I think we are getting.
- [50:54]
Andrew Schlect
Might be seeing, you know, we'll talk about the new metal ratio maybe, you know, later on after, after game seven.
- [51:04]
Co-host/Analyst
Okay.
- [51:05]
Andrew Schlect
Anyways, that's way too in the weeds on.
- [51:10]
Co-host/Analyst
No, I needed to know that because there was, there was online discussion and, and trying to figure out what is going on with OKC's song selections. I'm glad we got that sorted out. Thank you.
- [51:24]
Andrew Schlect
Thank you for watching and listening to the morning shoot around. Thank you to Jason for joining us. Very much appreciate that. Hope you guys are doing great. And we will talk to you guys again post game after game six.
- [51:47]
Jason Gallagher
You.
- [51:53]
Jake Stauch
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com creditcard when you manage procurement
- [52:18]
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