The WAY TOO EARLY East Rankings

Summary

Podcast Summary: The WAY TOO EARLY East Rankings

Release Date: July 5, 2025 | The Athletic NBA Daily

In the July 5, 2025 episode of The Athletic NBA Daily, hosts Andrew Schlecht and Alex Spears delve into an early analysis of the Eastern Conference rankings for the upcoming NBA season. Despite the title's playful caution about the premature nature of their rankings, the hosts provide a comprehensive examination of team trajectories, player performances, and strategic moves that could shape the Eastern Conference landscape.

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1. Introduction to Eastern Conference Rankings

The episode kicks off with the hosts acknowledging the playful warning about the rankings being "way too early." They emphasize that these rankings are both tiers and specific team placements within those tiers, inviting listeners to engage and provide feedback on their assessments.

Andrew Schlecht states at [04:06] “We’ve done the west rankings. I thought that was really fun. Way too early. Way too early.” setting the tone for an in-depth yet speculative discussion.

2. Analyzing Tanking Teams

The conversation begins with identifying the teams expected to tank next season:

• Washington Wizards
• Brooklyn Nets
• Charlotte Hornets

Alex Spears argues that the Wizards will likely be the worst team in the East due to their strategic focus on tanking to secure a higher draft pick. At [07:24], he explains, “The Wizards will want to be the worst... they are going to do whatever they can to make sure they lose as many games as possible.” This approach is contrasted with the Nets, who despite having talented rookies, lack tanking experience and face uncertainty in their progression.

3. Play-In Team Contenders

Moving up the tiers, the hosts discuss teams on the cusp of the play-in tournament:

• Chicago Bulls
• Toronto Raptors
• Miami Heat

Andrew Schlecht reflects on the Bulls, noting their reliance on young talents like Josh Giddey and Kobe White. He mentions at [10:01], “I just have to say, as a Jew, it’s a little disappointing...” highlighting the team's drafting strategy and player performance concerns.

Alex Spears counters by highlighting the Bulls' strategic moves and player development, suggesting that Bobby Portis and Kevin Porter Jr. could be pivotal in elevating the team's performance.

4. Dark Horse Teams

The discussion shifts to Dark Horse contenders capable of surprising in the upcoming season:

• Detroit Pistons
• Atlanta Hawks
• Orlando Magic

Alex Spears showcases the potential of the Orlando Magic, emphasizing their defensive prowess and acquisition of Desmond Bain, who brings much-needed shooting and playmaking skills. He notes at [79:53], “They have a chance to be the best defense in the NBA teams.”

Conversely, the Atlanta Hawks are praised for their versatile roster and the integration of players like Trae Young with team-oriented supporters, making them a formidable league pass team.

5. Injured Dark Horse Tier

Addressing teams grappling with significant injuries, the hosts identify:

• Indiana Pacers
• Boston Celtics
• Philadelphia 76ers
• Milwaukee Bucks

Alex Spears underscores the Indiana Pacers' struggles stemming from injuries to key players like Tyrese Halliburton and Miles Turner. At [53:34], he expresses disappointment in the team's management decisions, particularly their reluctance to pay additional taxes to retain crucial players, stating, “I am so disappointed in their ownership group.”

The Boston Celtics are discussed as a wildcard, with Pascal Siakam receiving praise for his performance, despite the team's ongoing roster uncertainties.

6. Contenders on the Rise

Focusing on teams with championship potential, the hosts examine:

• Cleveland Cavaliers
• New York Knicks

Andrew Schlecht positions the Cavaliers slightly above the Knicks, citing their strong roster additions like Lonzo Ball and defensive strengths. He remarks at [93:16], “They are putting together a really fun basketball team...”

Alex Spears acknowledges Cleveland's potential but remains cautious about their playoff performance history and health issues, suggesting that both teams need to secure their spots in the Eastern Conference Finals to avoid internal upheaval.

7. Player Performance and Team Dynamics

Throughout the episode, Schlecht and Spears delve into individual player performances and their impact on team dynamics. Key points include:

• Giannis Antetokounmpo of the Milwaukee Bucks is highlighted for his potential MVP-caliber season, with Spears predicting significant improvements in his shooting and playmaking abilities.

  “Giannis could just be the MVP this year,” Spears asserts at [73:21].

• The Charlotte Hornets are scrutinized for their roster composition, particularly the synergy between players like LaMelo Ball and Jakob Poeltl.

• Defensive capabilities of teams like the Orlando Magic and Boston Celtics are emphasized as critical factors for their success in a defensively intense Eastern Conference.

8. Strategic Moves and Management Decisions

The hosts analyze recent trades and management decisions that could influence team performances:

• Charlotte Hornets' trade for Mason Plumlee is discussed as a strategic move to bolster their center position, despite potential concerns about player fit.

• Orlando Magic's acquisition of Desmond Bain is lauded for addressing their shooting deficiencies and enhancing their defensive strategies.

• The Brooklyn Nets' handling of young talent and their reliance on experience without sufficient development is critiqued as a potential hindrance to their progress.

9. Conclusion and Future Outlook

In wrapping up the episode, Schlecht and Spears reiterate the unpredictability of the Eastern Conference and the myriad factors—from player health to strategic trades—that will determine the final rankings. They stress the importance of team chemistry and the ability to capitalize on strengths while mitigating weaknesses.

Andrew Schlecht concludes at [99:37], “This is their shot to get to the NBA Finals. This is it.” encapsulating the high stakes and potential for significant shifts in the Eastern Conference standings.

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Notable Quotes

• Alex Spears [07:24]:
  “The Wizards will want to be the worst... they are going to do whatever they can to make sure they lose as many games as possible.”

• Andrew Schlecht [04:06]:
  “We’ve done the west rankings. I thought that was really fun. Way too early. Way too early.”

• Alex Spears [73:21]:
  “Giannis could just be the MVP this year.”

• Andrew Schlecht [93:16]:
  “They are putting together a really fun basketball team...”

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Final Thoughts

"The WAY TOO EARLY East Rankings" episode offers a thorough and engaging exploration of the Eastern Conference's upcoming NBA season. By combining statistical analysis with expert insights, Andrew Schlecht and Alex Spears provide listeners with a nuanced perspective on what to expect, making it a valuable listen for NBA enthusiasts keen on understanding the potential shifts and surprises in the Eastern Conference.

Transcript

[Andrew Schlecht]

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[Fred Katz]

As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM. This season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a 1500 dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least $10. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny467-369 In New York, call 1-800-next step in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico first bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager.

[Andrew Schlecht]

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[Alex Spears]

To be clear, Alex Spears is actually at America Ferreira's business school graduation party.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, that's.

[Alex Spears]

He's not at any July 4th festivities.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, that's right. Just, just to be clear about what's right.

[Alex Spears]

I just, it's, it's. If it were any other day, then I think people would know. Obviously everyone's been following America Ferreira's trek through business school.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

Naturally, to clarify.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, today that could be a little bit confusing. So I just wanted to make sure everybody got that. Got that right. I don't want any missing interpretations. I'd also like to apologize for not being Alex Spears. I feel like I've spent an unusual amount of my life apologizing to swaths of people for not being Alex Spears.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

Sorry.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

But you'll deal, you'll deal with America Ferreira references right off the bat.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right off the bat. If you want to see Alex Spears in person, he will be in Las Vegas and we will record Slam and Jam live. So I will put out some details about that on, on Twitter and Blue sky and all of that at some point. So we'd love for you guys to come watch us and we'll Also be doing trivia live on the concourse, so you may have a chance to be a Slam and jam contestant. Andrew. We're going to do Andrew versus the street out on the concourse in Las Vegas. So looking forward to that. Actually, I'm not looking forward to that at all. You should look forward to that. Should be very fun for you. Not fun for me. So today I wanted to just kind of tie a bow on. We did the west rankings. I thought that was really fun. Way too early. Way too early. Unnecessarily early to talk about rankings, but I thought it was pretty fun. And I, I, I thought it would be fun today to do the Eastern Conference. I feel like Fred is a great person to talk Eastern Conference with. Um, again, these, we're. These are tiers, but they're also going to be ranked within the tiers. I am not going to cop out like Seth Part now did. One more shot at Seth Part now for saying that. These are tiers. They're not rankings. These are both tiers and rankings. Okay. So take that into consideration. And if you're, if you're upset, you have the YouTube comments, just leave some comments down below. Let us know if any of these make you miffed or peeved. Okay. We're gonna start with the Tanking teams. Fred.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, we're going reverse.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We're going reverse. Yes.

[Alex Spears]

All right. I have to say, you did not send me that. These. I don't think you sent me.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I've given. I literally sent you. No preparation. I told you what the concept was, and I said.

[Alex Spears]

You said, just show up.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

So I have. I have six tiers, not five.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay. Okay.

[Alex Spears]

I've also named my tiers different than Tank playing Dark Horse Fringe. Contenders and Contenders, as you have. For the audio listeners who are not seeing that, you just put a graphic up on the screen.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

So instead of tank, my tier 6 is called the loser for boozer tier.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

Being a possible number one pick for next year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And, okay, so I. Am I starting? I have three teams here. Let's start with Am I starting? Let's start with am I starting at 15 or starting at 13?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Start at 15. Let's. Let's say who we think the worst team in the east is going to be next year.

[Alex Spears]

I think the worst team in the east because, gosh darn it, they're gonna want to be. It's the Washington Wizards.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You think it's the Wizards.

[Alex Spears]

Touch the Brooklyn.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I was grabbing at the Brooklyn Nets.

[Alex Spears]

Grabbing the Nets.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, we can throw up the Wizards, and then we can talk Nets, and then we can, we can talk about who should be in what spot. But, like, okay, talk me into the Wizards being the worst.

[Alex Spears]

I think the Wizards will be the worst because the Wizards will want to be the worst. They still owe a top eight protected pick out, and they are going to do whatever they can to make sure that pick is low and whatever they can to make sure they lose as many games as possible. And honestly, I didn't even consider the quality of players on either of these teams.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

I think the Wizards probably have. They certainly have better young talent than the Nets. Nets have a lot of.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I mean, rookies. Absolutely. Yes.

[Alex Spears]

True. Nets have too many young ball handlers. They're going to struggle like crazy on that sense.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

The reason I'm saying the Wizards over the Nets is because the Wizards proved last year to be really good tankers, and the Nets proved last year to be really bad tankers, and I, I'm choosing the. You know what? The Wizards have the tanking experience. They have. They, They've been through the grind of the tank.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

They know how to execute. I'm using all the playoff cliches that we use.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They have Will Dawkins, too, who watched an expert tank in Oklahoma City years ago. You know, participated in, participated in it. Like, like, are they gonna send Marcus Smart home like they did Al Horford? Like, what's, what's gonna happen here? I mean, like, yeah, I think despite the quality of players that might be on this team, I don't disagree that they, that they want to be in the top five, probably more than anybody. And the Nets have also shown that they kind of let things ride a little bit. You know, they have a really good coach, they have good systems in place, and sometimes that will win you basketball games, even. Even though, like, they shouldn't be. I, I don't know that they will this year, though. Like, I, I don't see, I don't see the path for the Nets. Like, I just, I frankly just don't see a path for them this next year or even moving forward. Like, they, they have to get lucky in the lottery in order to, like, have a viable path forward.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, they do.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm very, very low on the Nets. I'm very, very low on the Nets for the foreseeable future. I don't, I don't see it. I, I, Their draft was preposterous. Like, I just, I just, I have.

[Alex Spears]

To say, I have to say, as a Jew, it's a little disappointing when, When A team takes multiple Jewish guys for the first time since, like, Yeshiva's last recruiting class, and the reaction is just universally. Well, that was a disaster. It. It does not bode well for us in our athletic feats moving forward. It's a little disappointing.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They just took a bunch of dudes outside of Danny Wolf that just can't score and turn. Turns out that scoring the basketball is part of it. And also guys that really can't defend either. And also stopping guys from scoring is also a huge part of basketball. They pick guys that can kind of do all the in between stuff, and that is a terrifying proposition.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. I mean, one thing that I will say so much of. Of sucking is just the motivation. I mean, I was joking around about it before, but it is so true. Like, yeah, the reason the Jazz ended up with number one lottery positioning this year was because they literally wanted to lose so much that they got fined for it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

One of the reasons the Wizards were number two was because they were like, we have a protective first round pick and we are making sure we dive to the bottom and we want to capture the flag, and that is what we want to do. And that was why they went the direction they went. Another reason that the Nets won this year more than certainly they should have is because Jordy Fernandez is really good.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Jordy's good.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, he is really good. He. He has, you know, we don't know how he's gonna be if he coaches a team with vets and that's supposed to be a contender and all of that, because it's a different sort of coaching experience when you're coaching young guys in these sorts of developmental games than it is. He might be really good. I mean, he obviously has had coaching experience with Team Canada and has been extremely well respected since well before he even got the head coaching job in. In Brooklyn. He was, you know, a lot. You know, he's. He's very well credited for the success that Mike Brown had in Sacramento when he was on his staff there. He's really well respected. He is really good at just getting all of his guys to buy into whatever stuff they're running.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And I feel like on a team where there's not a lot of talent and there's a lot of youth buy in is just so important. Oh, the Nets last year played really well together. And I just. I just feel like we could be in for a world where the Nets start like. Like, just like 10 and 22, you know, which. And. And the Wizards are 5 and 27.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And. And they just can't make up that gap.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Throughout the rest of the year. I also think it's plausible the Wizards have over a hundred million dollars in cap space in the summer of 2026. Now, when I tweeted out that the Wizards were going to have over $100 million in cap space, people were like, yeah, but who's signing with the Wizards? No one's signing with the Wizards. I mean, someone might sign with the wizards, but like LeBron's not signing with the Wizards in 2026. That's not the point. They're going to be coming off another losing season, and chances are what they're going to be doing is they're going to be trying to take on bad money from other teams and they're going to take on sweeteners in order to take that bad money. So if someone is getting paid $35 million a year on, has three years left on his deal, and he's not worth that amount of money, then they're going to take on that player and they're going to get draft picks as well for the sake of taking that guy on. And that guy's team can dump them onto the Wizards and they don't have to take back money. They could speed up that process and they could do it in season because they've got some larger contracts. They've got Marcus Smart on the books. They've got Chris Middleton who's expiring at 30 some odd million dollars on the books. So we could see them trade Chris Middleton for a worse player who's on an expensive contract but is under contract for 26, 27 to get draft pick out of it. Like, I could see them. Chris Middleton still solid player. Like, I could see them making, making moves like that, treating their expiring guys like expiring guys. Same thing with Marcus Smart. Like, I could. Same thing with C.J. mcCollum. I could. I could see them making those moves, and that will not help them, you know.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

By the end of the year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, the whole tanking playbook is there for them. Like, like they've set it up really well. Like now all they really need to do is land the right guys in the draft. And it's not always the guys that are at 1, 2, and 3. Like, ideally, yes, you get a top three pick in the draft, like, that's very helpful. But like, if they, I mean, Trey Johnson could be one of their, one of their, like big pieces moving forward. We just don't know yet. But like, they've they just have to pick the right guys because they're. I think they're doing everything they should do. And even though you do everything you should do, it doesn't mean it always works out. And so it's. This is where like so much luck comes into play for the Wizards. And they are, that's the game that they're playing. And whenever you're a team that is trying to get better, Will Dawkins definitely is following the Sam Presti plan and like, hey, let's get a lot of assets. Let's, you know, draft guys as high as we can and have a good culture. And, you know, he's really trying to rebuild that, that whole, you know, institution there in, in Washington. Anybody else that you think is a, a tanking team, a loser for boozer.

[Alex Spears]

Sorry Charlotte.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, I'm sorry Charlotte.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, I, I don't disagree. I think this is probably the only other candidate here.

[Alex Spears]

Yes, I agree. They don't really have a center. Yeah, I mean they signed Mason Plumlee.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They did do that.

[Alex Spears]

They don't really have a center. No, he traded away Mark Williams.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I was gonna say they're, they're all in Phoenix. So.

[Alex Spears]

Yep. Traded away Nick Richards last year mid season. Traded away Yusuf Nurkic. Now to be clear, I'm not knocking them for any of those trades.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Like Mark Williams after he had failed his physical last year. Still getting one and a half first for him.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's great.

[Alex Spears]

That's fine.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's good business.

[Alex Spears]

With his injury history. And that's, that's a, that's a fine trade. I had no problem that trade for Charlotte whatsoever, especially when he's eligible for an extension this summer. Getting off the Nurkic deal.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's great.

[Alex Spears]

That's fine. I'm, I'm good with that move. There's no problem there.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'd rather play Nick Richard's deal. Rather play Nick Richards deal. Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Nick Richards deal. They did with, with Charlotte or we did with Phoenix mid season last year. They got all of Phoenix's remaining second round picks at the time. That was, that was a good deal for a backup center. Phoenix thought he could be a starter by about three weeks into his time with Phoenix. He was coming off the bench. That, that was a good, that was a good deal for Charlotte. Like they're all fine, but their roster is a bit like, I, I don't really know what they are. Brand. Brandon Miller could make a jump, but also Brandon Miller like had his moments of inefficiency last year. Lamelo, you Got to worry about health stuff. You also got to worry about him. Just like, is he going to play disciplined basketball or is this just going to be the Lamelo show? Which, you know, last year the numbers were obviously unbelievable, but that was the Lamelo show, and there are some people who have just written him off. I'm not doing that. He's too young. You don't score like that. You don't play with confidence like that. And you don't pass like that at that age without me sitting here thinking like, okay, well, let's see what happens. Let's see. People can mature, they can develop, they can evolve. He's super young.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, he'll turn 24 in August. So I don't. You should not give up on him yet.

[Alex Spears]

Yes, there. There. There are. There are people who are like, you know, talking about him the same way they talked about Devin Booker years ago, where it's like, oh, man, this guy's just totally empty stats, and he's a useless player. He's a good stats, bad team guy, and he always will be. I'm like, I'm not there. But last year he was that. Yeah, he can develop past that because of his talent level in various facets of the game. It's not like he's just got tunnel vision and that's it. Like, he's a tremendous passer, but he's got to play winning basketball in a different kind of way than he did last year. You know, we'll see. We'll see. They have a lot of guys who are, you know, Lamello's good and. And. And Knipple's good off the bat, and Brandon Miller takes a leap, which he's really talented, so maybe he will.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

Maybe this team is. Is a little bit better, but I think they're still relatively undisciplined. And I also feel like I think this needs to be said after all that I said about the Wizards just now about their dedication to the lifestyle of the tank. The dedication to the lifestyle, Andrew. The Charlotte Hornets were their white whale. The Wizards went O and 4 or 4. Oh, oh, and oh, and 4 against the Hornets. Wait, oh, and 4?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, it's the opposite.

[Alex Spears]

4 0. What am I saying?

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's the opposite. It's. When you're tanking, the wins feel like losses.

[Alex Spears]

That's why I confused myself. Yeah, The Wizards went 40 against the Hornets last year. So if I'm throwing the Wizards here and I don't think the Hornets got meaningfully better, I. I don't think I could put them in a different tier than the Wizards and I definitely. The next one you have is playing and I can't, I can't put them in plan.

[Andrew Schlecht]

No, they're not going to be competing for the play in and that's okay. Like, they're, they're not ready for that yet. They, they have to kind of reshape their roster in some ways and they shouldn't give up assets to try to get better this year. They shouldn't do any of that. You know, you've. Even though, like the east is really weird, they're not in position to, to do any damage in the Eastern Conference. Okay. I think this makes sense for like the teams that are tanking. Who, who's, who's up next for you? Who's a play in team? And there's, There are so many confusing teams here. The first one that I think of is this team right here, the Chicago Bulls as a play in team. Perpetually a play in team. I don't know what I mean. I assume they're going to resign Josh Giddey and they're going to kind of run back this crew that they have here, but they're kind of a confounding team in some ways, but also in other ways they're not. I think they're a playing team.

[Alex Spears]

Can you explain the Lonzo ball for a coral trade from the Bulls perspective?

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's an awesome question. I, I don't know how you can get this far down the road with Isaac Okoro and think like, oh, yeah, that's the kind of guy that we want on our team. You know, I just don't, I don't know how you get that far down the road. Because, I mean, what else, I guess I would want to know, like, what else could have been on the table for Lonzo? Could you have gotten like a protected, like highly protected first for him? Could you have found a different player that maybe fit a little bit better with what you want to do? I don't know. Like, how much does a Koro even. How much does he play for Chicago next year? Like, how much does he fit into the plans for them? How much of this is like, hey, we like, Lonzo wants to be in a winning situation. You know, I don't, I don't know exactly what that looks like to me. That probably makes, if I were to try to make sense of it, it would be like, hey, Lonzo's people really want him to be on a winning team and that. Could you help him get there it's like, okay, yeah, we'll see what we can find. You know, that to me, if I was to try to make sense of it, that makes the most sense. If they're just calling like, hey, we'd love to just get Isaac Cora. Like, that doesn't make sense to me. For the Chicago team.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. I mean, Isaac Okoro, every year come the postseason, is out of his team's rotation.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

However, that probably won't be a problem for the Pulse. So it's fine.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I guess It's. It'll be just fine. I don't know. There's. There's going to be some weird stuff that happens in the Eastern Conference playoffs play in this next year. There's going to be some weird.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, there's. I mean, look, the Bull. I'm very intrigued to see what the deal that Giddy gets is. I. I'm sure he'll end up. He's restricted right now. I'm sure he'll end up going back to Chicago for some price.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Very interested to see what that contract is going to be.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

The Bulls were good and fun after the All Star break last year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah, they were.

[Alex Spears]

Sometimes it is difficult to evaluate exactly what that means for the upcoming season because March and the first half of April, basketball in the NBA is often useless in terms of trying to project into the future.

[Andrew Schlecht]

There's a reason they call it Mickey Mouse March. All right? There's a reason for it. It's, it's, it's largely. There's a lot of weird stuff that happens. A lot of it is largely not real. So. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Yep. And is Mickey Mouse not real?

[Andrew Schlecht]

We'll have to talk about that after the show. Okay, Fred.

[Alex Spears]

So Giddy averaged almost a triple double, like a 20 point triple double over the last however many games of the year. He was, he was tremendous.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He was.

[Alex Spears]

At the end of the year, even got some little Mip. Mip combo after Kobe. White was really good. They play a really fast, really frantic style. They jack up threes and it kind of catches teams by surprise because people are like, whoa, the Bulls are playing at this pace. And the Bulls are just jacking up threes out of double teams with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. And they. These are the shots they want. What's going on here? And I think it kind of catches teams by surprise. I don't know if it'll catch teams by surprise as much next year when they've already spent a year seeing it, but it might because it's not like it's not like players who are coming into Chicago are spending the whole week being like, oh, God, we got the Bulls on Saturday. How are we gonna deal with that? And it just kind of catches them by surprise. I think they could be like, a little frisky here and there, and I think their future is written for them. I. I told you, I did my own tears. I, I named this tier that I have. Who else are you gonna put 9th and 10th in the east tier? Even though based on this, they might not be 9th and 10th in the east, because this is really 11th, but in spirit, 9th and 10th in the east. And, and based on that name, I think you can probably guess who else I'm putting in the play end here.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I. I think I can. I do want to say that I. I wonder about their draft a little bit because they took no S and gay, who's kind of this mystery box prospect that certainly needs a long Runway. And I wonder if that shows. I'm curious if it shows some self awareness on their part. They're like, hey, we have a long way to go. We're willing to take this guy that we think has the highest ceiling that is not ready to contribute next year, like, as a, As a guy that's going to help contribute to winning. And so I wonder if there's some self awareness there with Chicago and that there's. I wonder what they do with Luch. I wonder all of that, but I just wonder if there's like, hey, self awareness here. Like, this is the guy that has the highest ceiling. And even if it takes a couple years, you know, we're willing to take him because we're not necessarily in. We're not necessarily super competitive. So.

[Alex Spears]

All right, let me ask you a question. Let's say the Bulls are top eight in the East.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Which we have to account for because the east is something.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

We haven't really, really discussed that. But let's say the Bulls are top eight in the East.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

If. If you just don't follow the NBA season this year at all and then we talk again in April. I'm like, hey, the Bulls finished seventh in the East. What. What would be your guess as to how it happened?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Maybe like Gideon, Kobe, White take a step forward. Is. Is. And also maybe there's injuries to other teams. Is. Is how it happens. Like, we have these three teams at the bottom, and then there's other teams that have debilitating injuries that keep them, like maybe like siakam misses like 40 games or something, and Indiana Falls or something like that happens, you know, like that, that is, that is actually probably the most likely case is that there's debilitating injuries for other teams.

[Alex Spears]

That's a ruthless answer. So how do you think the Bulls got seventh? Oh my goodness. Everyone died. That's your response?

[Andrew Schlecht]

I, I'm not a huge fan of this Bulls roster, as you could tell with my answer. But I do think like there are, there's going to be opportunities and like what I talked about is that's a reality for every single NBA season is that there's somebody that gets hurt that we're. That's not expected rankings like this like end up just getting thrown out because something happens to somebody. And, and maybe some of that stuff has already happened like with the Celtics and whatnot. But yeah, that, that would be my guess because I just like a lot of these other teams a lot better.

[Alex Spears]

I'll. I'll give you my answer.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

It is what we saw from Giddy in the, you know, last third of this past season wasn't flukesh. He averages, you know, a really productive 19. Eight and a half. Eight and a half. And Kobe White is Kobe White.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

They get really hot from three for the entire season because they take a ton of threes and they were like, I think they were first in the. No, they weren't first, but they were, they were top five in the NBA in three point rate and I think they were first in the NBA in pace. I think they play this really fast and frantic style. They get really hot from three. Some of their guys who are maybe okay or solid three point shooters just have killer three point shooting seasons. And my other one is a guy we haven't spoken about really at all is, is modest Bouz Elis has a really nice second year breakout.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Sure.

[Alex Spears]

Like I'm not saying becomes an all star that I don't think that's realistic. But like the end of last season, he's another guy who, you know, he's playing 25, 26 minutes a game. He's scoring a super efficient 14 points. He's hitting his threes in that time. He's really good. Going to the rim. He's a really good cutter already. He was a really good rookie. He was a really good rookie. He's got a ton of potential and I think he could become a legit starter. And if he shows that in year two, which is on the table, then, you know, we're just talking about the Bulls rising above, you know, other teams that we're going to Name that are not exactly that much more inspiring.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Than Chicago.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. He shot. He shot 36% from three. He's. And after the All Star break, he was 13, five and two. You know, for a rookie. For a young rookie, I mean, that's. That's really good, you know? You know, his basketball reference nickname, Boozelith is no. Lil Boozy Vert.

[Alex Spears]

I could never in a million years have gotten that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's his only basketball reference nickname.

[Alex Spears]

Who would call him that?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Please let us know in the YouTube comments, on Twitter, anywhere if anyone has ever, ever called him that. Okay, I need to know. I need to know who you are, because. Yeah, I'm. I'm in agreement that I don't. I don't know. Okay. Where are we going next? I think we've spent way too much time on these bad teams.

[Alex Spears]

They're the most fun. All right, next up, also in my. Write them in for to the 9 and 10 seed tier, even though we don't really have them. 9 and 10. Based on this, this tier is Toronto.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay. Okay, I get that. I totally get that. But I. I am perplexed by this team in so many ways. I don't know what. I don't know what they're doing or where they're going because I just feel like they have too many unnecessarily good players that all play the same position and all do the same things. And like, they. They just. I don't mind the draft pick. I like Colin Murray Boyles a lot. I think he's a good player. I don't know what the path is for him to become the best player with the way that the roster is today. And I also don't know how they take this roster and change it over. Like, who's trading for RJ Barrett, I think is, like a question that I have for them. I. I don't. The Brandon Ingram trade is still just one of the more perplexing ones to me. And trade in extension. Because when you look at what they have, like, I just don't know how they believe that propels them forward. I just don't. I just don't get it. I just. I look at the roster, I just don't get it.

[Alex Spears]

Manual quickly is at his best when he's got the ball in his hands. He can create. He can run high, pick and roll.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

He can create for others. He can kick to the corners. He can pull up from three. He can get to his floater. He's a good player when he's at his best. RJ Barrett had the best season of his career last year. Certainly the best passing season. He was about 900 times better as a facilitator last year than he has ever been at any moment of his life. I thought he was genuinely one of the most improved players in the league last year, if only for his passing facilitating and decision making. Better around the rim. Part of the reason Raptors had injuries, RJ had to take over the offense.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

He was much better with the ball in his hands when he was able to facilitate. Brandon Ingram, really good ISO scorer. Can be good in picking roles. I actually think he's an underrated passer. He is an awesome crosscourt passer. He just sees things and he's able to pass over a defense incredibly well. Best when he has the ball on his hands. Yep, Scotty Barnes can do a lot of stuff without the ball. However, when you had OG Anunoby there and when you had Pascal Siakam there, part of the initiative was, okay, how can we turn this into Scotty's team? How can we get him the ball more? How can we figure out ways to use him? It's not happening. Scotty Barnes, not a shooter. Yeah, RJ Barrett, better shooter than he used to be, but also not good enough to where guys frantically try to close out on him on the perimeter. Yeah, Brandon Ingram doesn't shoot threes at a high enough volume to where he can space. And Jakob Hurdle is a solid player who I don't think is necessarily the defender that he was like four years ago as a rim protector. The analytics at least say that he's not the rim protector that he used to be. And he's gonna hang around the middle and he's a good player and he had a really nice year last year, but he's gonna hang around the middle. The spacing in that starting five is strange. The fact that you have four guys who would like to have the ball is just a stylistic contrast that no team needs. I don't see how it is going to work well. It's. It's. It. I agree with you that it's confounding because I roll through their roster and for the most part I'm like, Scotty Barnes, obviously a good player. Emmanuel Quickley, obviously a good player. RJ Barrett, vastly improved. I thought he was a good player.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Good player. He's a, He's a good pro. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, like RJ Barrett's a good player now, like, RJ Barrett has worked incredibly hard on, on fixing a lot of his Flaws and was not a black hole last year. It was just, he was, he was really good in transition. He was a really good transition passer. He had the most efficient, you know, the last two years have been the most efficient scoring seasons really since he went to Toronto. Most efficient scoring seasons of his career by a landslide. And he's like above the average efficiency now when he was constantly like well below it before. I covered him on a everyday basis for, you know, when he was with the Knicks. And he's an incredibly hard worker. So it's not shocking to me that it happened, but he's become a solid player. Ochaya Baji, I thought, had a really good year for them last year as a three and D guy off the bench. Grady Dick can shoot and, and has a lot of potential. I go through the roster and I'm like, all right. Like there's, there's a lot of good players and they all fit each other terribly. And, and basketball is not about overall talent. It's not baseball. You don't just put together a lineup and you're like, all right, we have a good lead off hitter, we have a number two hitter, we have number three hitter, we have a cleanup hitter. We're good to go. And they just kind of all do their own individual acts just lined up. It's not that you have to enhance each other and it's a bunch of players who don't do the opposite of enhance each other. I think they distract from each other. I think we saw that for a lot of last year and I think we will see that again this year. Even with the east being super downtrodden.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And they tough task for Darko Reakovich. It's tough.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's tough. And they just drafted a guy at 9 who is similar mold. Like good defensive player. Needs the basketball in his hands to be effective because passing is his best skill. You know, I just don't know how you, I just don't know how you, you make it all work. It is a, it is a very tough ask because the, the amount like there's, they basically have one guy who plays off ball and Grady Dick, like that's probably it a body, sure. But that, like that's not enough. That's not, that's not how you win basketball games.

[Alex Spears]

Okay. I think it's, it's not, it's not. And, and if I can add, I, I, I did not hear this myself, but it was reported by various other outlets. So sure, it's true that the trade that Atlanta did with New Orleans on draft night where they. Atlanta gave up 13 to New Orleans so New Orleans could move up from 23 to 13. And in order for Atlanta to give up that pick and move back 10 spots, they got the best of New Orleans's and Milwaukee's first round pick in 2026, which could be an insanely high pick.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

You know the reporting, the public reporting is that New Orleans was offering that package to a bunch of teams in front of Atlanta too, including Toronto. I don't know why Toronto didn't do that deal.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I don't know. I don't know why I wouldn't do that.

[Alex Spears]

I'm so confused. Like you can move back 14 spots, you get New Orleans his first round pick and maybe get Milwaukee seeing if, you know, see what happens Milwaukee this year. And you know, if something, they probably won't be worse New Orleans, but they could fall off a cliff. But even if they don't like New Orleans, New Orleans won 21 games last year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And the west is better.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Like honestly, if you're outside the top seven, like why wouldn't you do that deal?

[Alex Spears]

I can't believe they didn't do that deal.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Why didn't the Brooklyn do that deal? They took a guy that might have been there at 16 anyways. At 8.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. Yeah. And if they really wanted him, if he was going to be there at like, you know, if they really wanted him, they could have traded up with all their other picks.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They could have found.

[Alex Spears]

They could have just, they could have just packaged 23 and 27 and 28 and you get that and you get that back.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. It's crazy. I also have Miami in the play in range. I really don't know what Miami is. I don't know what they're going to be. I know they're going to be well coached. Bam. At a bio is a great player. Tyler Hero had a great year last year. Really, really nice year. Davion Mitchell, I think, I mean obviously had a great close to his season earn a contract. That's amazing. Like they've got pros. Andrew Wiggins, I just don't know. Like this is a, it's a very uninspiring team to me though. Like I think they're going to be in the playing range. It's possible they make the playoffs but I, I mean this is not a team I feel like can win around and so I don't, I don't know exactly where they're going.

[Alex Spears]

So the reason that I have six tiers instead of five is because we went through my tier five. My tier four is one team.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And the name of the tier is the. It feels disrespectful to group the Heat with the Bulls and Raptors.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It kind of does. It kind of does not. Maybe not for me. Maybe for you.

[Alex Spears]

Because I just feel like I never know. I just feel like I never know. And I also think the Heat are probably a little bit better than those teams, if only because you have Eric's Bolstra. Bam Adebayo had a really bad year last year. He had a really bad year last year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And I don't think it was because he got worse. I think he just had a really bad year. His jumper went away. He was much better in the second half. But his. His. His jumper went away. And as a scorer, I thought he fell off as a facilitator. I didn't think he was as good. He did not have a great year. He was really good defensively. He always is. That is a constant with Bam. It's just one of the best defenders in the NBA. But even, you know, there have been times where I thought Bam should have been defensive player of the year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And this year he was a guy who, like, I. I didn't have him on my all defense this year. Yeah, he was on the list. He was on the list. He was really close on the list. But I. I ended up not putting him on there. And I still think of him as one of the best defenders in the NBA. I would guess with a very good amount of confidence. I mean, feels like Bam's been around forever. He's only 27 years old. It's not like he looked old or anything. He just had a bad year. I would guess with a pretty supreme amount of confidence that Bam on a bio is going to have a significantly better year this year than he did last year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And I think that will. That will make them better and they won't have to deal with all the Jimmy drama which completely and utterly derailed everything.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's what I was about to say, isn't. It was not. It was not a stable work environment for anybody in Miami last year.

[Alex Spears]

People there were miserable last year. And I get it. Some of us, you know, Kevin Love came out and was like, we're not pissed at Jimmy, whatever else. But the whole situation just. I'm not. I'm not saying Kevin Love was. Was lying. I take his word at that. And. And I understand why he would feel that way, too. Jimmy's a friend. Of his. Like, I, I understand that not knocking him in the least, but that entire situation, whether because of Jimmy specifically for some people or because of just the environment that the Jimmy situation called or caused, just made it a really crappy work environment. People with the Heat were just a lot more miserable last year than they normally are. And, you know, teams talk all the time about they're not wanting to be distractions. Now distractions can hurt you. You will never, ever meet a player or a head coach who disagrees with that statement.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Sure.

[Alex Spears]

About how you never hear anybody say, man, distractions aren't a big deal.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Not that big of a deal. You've never heard that in my entire life from anyone. It doesn't matter who you are. And so I, I, they're not gonna have that this year. They're starting at a fresher spot and that'll be good for them.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And they're the Heat. You know, they could go into the playoffs with 42 wins and I'll be like, gotta watch out for the Heat, man.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Even without Jimmy. You feel that way?

[Alex Spears]

Yes. Because they have Eric Spolra.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. I don't know that I feel that way.

[Alex Spears]

Without Jimmy someone on that team. Andrew is gonna break out and we're gonna be like that guy. We're gonna be like, wait. Pill Larson is really good.

[Andrew Schlecht]

K Takes this massive jump.

[Alex Spears]

I mean, that, first of all, that, that will literally be true. He will take a ton of massive jumps and it could figuratively be true. He is quite good.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I like Ware a lot. I think that was, I think it was a great pick for them. He. He didn't shoot it that well last year from three, but he's a guy that projects to be able to really shoot it from 3. He protects the rim. He's giant. I, I think that's, it's a great guy to put next to bamboo as a, as a role playing center that can do the, a lot of the things that Bam doesn't do. So I think it's. I think it's great. That is a great pairing.

[Alex Spears]

I think. I think can make a bold call.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Make a bold call. This is your. This is your time. It's July 4th, man. Celebrate.

[Alex Spears]

I think a Nicola Jovic breakout is coming.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

I think that's coming.

[Andrew Schlecht]

What does that look like? What does that look like?

[Alex Spears]

It. I'm trying to think if there's a good Jokic joke to make. Looks like a dude who is taking a higher volume of threes. He is consistently now, like, really hitting from three.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

He's getting way more comfortable from there behind the arc. It's a dude who's able to do some more stuff out of the dribble, who's passing improves some, who's finishing around the rim is getting better. Whose post game is getting better? I, I and, and who is more comfortable within Miami's offense and sets better cutter, better off ball player. I think. I think he's gonna be. I, he's got a chance to really be a very, very solid player. And, and again, he's also been around for a while, but he's only 22.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I was gonna say he just turned 22, like, just right.

[Alex Spears]

Like, he was, was he 18 when he got drafted?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes. I mean, he was.

[Alex Spears]

He was 18.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He had to have been one of the youngest guys in that class.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. And so, like, man, he's very far from his prime. And he was sneakily, really solid for them last year. They won 37 games. They completely and utterly fell off a cliff at the end of the season.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Part of it was he didn't play too like, he was. He was out the second half of the season pretty much.

[Alex Spears]

I don't know. I just. I, I guess people will say to me, like, probably going to be a lot of people who are going to be like, oh, you're just, you're just counting on the jersey. I'm like, no, I'm really just counting on Eric Spoelstra. Yeah, just like, there's like, one coach in the NBA who I'm like, no, that dude is probably going to make these guys way better than I think they could be, because he literally does it every single year, no matter what. No exceptions.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And no, and there should be no distractions, too. Like, you get to start the year more professionally as an organization. You get to kind of ground yourself as to who you think you are and, like, move forward that way without having this, like, trade hanging over you all season. I do think that there's just value in that. I don't think that it's gonna get them higher than playing range. I mean, it's possible that it does, but I'm not. I wouldn't say that they're dark horses. I, I still think that this is a team that could make the play in, which means you could make the playoffs, which means you're probably going out in round one. You know, it's kind of the way that I think this team is structured, and they're probably just going to wait around until somebody either gets traded there or wants to go there. Or whatever. You know, they. They can. They deserve the benefit of the doubt to just kind of hang around because Miami is an amazing place to live.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, it's lovely.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, it is.

[Alex Spears]

That place is like heaven. It is amazing. People think of Miami is like, clubby and sceney and whatever else, but there are so many areas of Miami that are just gorgeous and peaceful and wonderful.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And I can't imagine. I can't imagine living in a nicer place. Miami is unbelievable.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Is amazing.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay. I am so curious as to where you go next, because, like, the teams that we have left. So let's just recap real quick. We've only done six teams here. We have Washington, Brooklyn, and Charlotte at the bottom. Losers for Boozer. We have our play in teams. I'm actually gonna. I think I like the Bulls a little better than Toronto. I just think they make a little bit more sense and the way that they're structured. So I'm going to put Toronto, Chicago, Miami. And now we've entered the dark horse realm here. And there are teams like, we have the injured Indiana Pacers, Halliburton, and no, Miles Turner. We have the 76ers here, which are a complete wild card as to what they could be. We have the Milwaukee Bucks there that have Miles Turner, but the rest of the roster is questionable. I mean, those may be the teams that we put in this range of the Boston Celtics, who have completely ripped their team apart. And is Luca Garza their center? You know, like, there's. You know, I don't know. Where. Where do you go next?

[Alex Spears]

Well, so I.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Can I.

[Alex Spears]

Can I just say the four teams that I have in this tier.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Because I feel like it's a conversation to be had about all them with the way that I tiered them.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Sure.

[Alex Spears]

So I guess technically this is above the plan, even though this is really my 6 through 10.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

In the east.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Or 6 through 9 or whatever. So, anyway, I named it the everyone's hurt tier.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. That's fair.

[Alex Spears]

And I put all the teams where everyone's hurt.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

From bottom to top. I had Indiana.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

I had Boston. I had Philadelphia. Even though everyone's not hurt now. But I just assume everyone will be hurt.

[Andrew Schlecht]

People are perpetually hurt in Philadelphia.

[Alex Spears]

Exactly.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

And I had Milwaukee.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Where technically Damian Lillard's on the roster anymore. But obviously Damien Lord tearing his Achilles shape their season.

[Andrew Schlecht]

There's a paycheck that says Milwaukee Bucks on it. That's going his direction.

[Alex Spears]

Yes, correct. And. And for me, the reason I Put the Pacers last is because they lost two of. They lost arguably their two most important, at least regular season pieces. Obviously Halliburton.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Is going to be there. And I don't think Miles Turner is their second best player. Pascal Siakam's their second best player. I voted for Pascal.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He's not their best player. Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. Pascal Siakam is so underrated. I voted for him for Eastern Conference finals mvp.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And took flak for not voting for Halliburton. And you know what? I. I stand by it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Was incredible in that series. He is great for the style that they play and whatever else. They're gonna have to play a different style without Tyrese Halliburton. I mean, he is the reason you play that style. The reason I say Miles Turner is maybe their other most important player is because Miles Turner's value, while he is obviously a good player, his value doesn't necessarily come in his quality as much as it comes in his skill set. Doesn't come in the skills. Comes in the skill set. And it's because he is an above average rim protector, an above average center with some scheme versatility, and he can shoot threes well enough to where you have to guard him on the three point arc. And there are very few centers in the league, especially ones who are not all stars. There are very few centers in the league who actually fit that description.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Can actually fill both of those roles. It is an incredibly small number of players who are able to do that.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And most of the ones who are able to do that, by the way, are like, you know, Joel embiId. They're like MVPs.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And all stars, whatever else.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And like unavailable to your franchise to acquire.

[Alex Spears]

Totally.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And they're gonna lose Turner. Or they're losing there. They lost Turner.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And it is going to be difficult for them to recover from those things. I feel similarly about Rick Carlisle as I do to eric spra and 100%.

[Andrew Schlecht]

100,000% like he was.

[Alex Spears]

But you know what, Andrew?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

I have to say, you know, you know, I'm not a very spiritual person. There is one. There's one shrine at which I do. I do worship, one altar at which I do worship. And it is the. It is. It is the altar of the basketball gods. And I think if you come one win away from making the finals and I get it. Tyrese Halliburton got hurt and you're not going to be a contender this year regardless. And to be clear, this is not a statement on Pacers ownership or Pacers management. I'm. I'm. Every single GM in the league would love to pay as many dollars as you possibly can. It's not them setting the budget.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

To not even climb a little bit into the tax and retain Miles Turner. Because two years from now, you still have a young roster and you have a group where they'll have continuity. And you try to keep it together, in two years from now, you might be able to win it all when Tyrese Halliburton's back.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And to lose Miles Turner, who we just described as someone with an archetype that is immensely improbable to replace if not for them impossible to replace. Someone with that skill set who can spread the floor so that your offense is going to be spread and you don't have somebody hanging in the middle. That is incredibly important for the way that they cut, for the way that they screen with all those ghost screens they have with Siakam. It is incredibly important to have a five who is not standing there in the middle. And it is incredibly important for them from a defensive standpoint to have a five who's at least. He's not an all defense defender, but he is good. He is an above average, good, solid defender who can block a shot. He can contest the rim, plays hard. You're not looking there. Being like Miles Turner is. Is dogging it today. Like you got scheme versatility. He's. He's mobile. Like your. Your chances are you are not going to be able to find another guy like that. The ideal center there. And to throw away possibly a chance at the 2027 title because you don't want to pay a little bit of tax this year after you came one win away from the finals this year. And when everyone was like, this was a true Cinderella story with the Pacers this year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

That had a different kind of vibe to it than most Cinderella stories. Most Cinderella stories are looked at. Wow, that was so fun. And that was adorable.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Butler makes the NCAA tournament final. We're like, that was awesome. And then we're like, do you think Butler is better than Kentucky? And they're like, no, what are you talking about? You know, the Pacers changed everyone's mind by. By the time it got to the finals, no one was like, wow, this is some flukish run. Everyone was like, wow, you know what? This team is awesome. This team is so good. This is. It was impossible to watch the. Their entire playoff run. And maybe it took you a little while to get on the train. But it was impossible to watch their playoff run and not have the reaction at some point of like, well, I, obviously I was totally wrong. Like, this. This team is just awesome. Like, unbelievably high caliber basketball that we saw right. All the way through the finals.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

Like, there weren't a lot of great games in the finals in terms of, like, down to the wire, other than game one and game four. Like, in terms of like, down to the wire. The reason it was a really good finals was because it was just unbelievable basketball.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

It was just two teams that are like. You watched it and you were like, these are the two teams that deserve to be here.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Like, this is unbelievable. High quality. One of the best played finals we've seen in a long time.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

In terms of the quality of basketball. And to break that up, I just think the basketball gods are going to be like, no, you don't get to avoid. You're going to be in the worst place you could possibly be in this year. They're going to be like, you don't get this. Also, for what it's worth, and I don't think I've seen anyone make this point. The NBA changed. In the new cba, the NBA changed the tax rules. They changed the rules on tax payments. And people have talked so much about the first apron and the second apron and how you have to pay so much money now when you go into the second apron because the tax multipliers are crazy when you go into the second apron and how because of that, plus the restrictions on the resources that you have in terms of team building, how those are going to double is turning the second apron into a hard cap. So many people have had that discussion. But there is another effect that the CBA did cap wise. And the rules were phased in. They were phased in a little bit in 20, 23, 24, then a little more in 24, 25. And this is the year where it's fully going into effect, which is that the teams that are just barely over the tax do not have to pay the same tax payment as the YouTube. They're actually paying less. So what this CBA was supposed to do was it was supposed to discourage teams essentially from going way over the tax, but encourage teams from going a little bit over the tax. This CBA was made, the rules starting in 25, 26 this season, right now, these rules were made to encourage a team in the exact situation that the Pacers are in to go into the tax.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, boy.

[Alex Spears]

And yet they chose not to And Herb Simon.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I just won't pay the tax. He just won't pay the tax.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. I'm just incredibly disappointed. Yeah, they were gonna. They were gonna pay the tax. If Tyrese Halliburton were healthy, there is no doubt to me that they would go into the tax. Yeah, they would have gone into the tax. If Tyres Halliburton were. If he were healthy. They. I was told all year they were going to do it. Told all year they wanted to resign. Miles Turner. They were going to do it. I am so. I'm just. Doesn't even make. I'm not angry about it. I'm just. I'm just so disappointed. I, I.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Which is much.

[Alex Spears]

I'm so disappointed in them. Like, I'm so disappointed in their ownership group. Like, what? Depriving. Depriving the basketball world of that team. What a amazing team they had this year.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

Like, emphasis on team. It was gorgeous. That was beautiful, watching people come together like that and just enhance each other in every way possible in the most unselfish fashion you could imagine.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

That was beautiful.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It was.

[Alex Spears]

They were unbelievable team with unbelievable vibes, and it is so disappointing that they didn't want to pay a little extra money to make sure they could keep that together. Maybe not for this year, because Tyres Halbern's hurt, but for two years from now when everyone's still young and healthy. And I just. I was. I hate. I hate. I just. I just hated that. I totally hated it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. You can make the argument that, that they could be. That they could be here and the. In the plan.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah. You know what? Throw them there.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We're throwing them down. They're no longer. No longer on the dark horse. Everybody's hurt. Who knows what's going to happen? Tier. I think it's. I think this is actually pretty fair. Like, I, I don't know. I don't know what else Boston is going to do but, like, Derrick White, Jalen Brown, like, that's a lot of teams that are down here would love to have the combination of those two, you know, as. As, like, their two best guys. And they're gonna have to figure it out with their big man position for sure. But I think those guys can at least, like, put a scare into somebody. You know, I think those guys are really good. And they get like, this is not going to be a wasted year for the Celtics. I think they're going to get a chance to kind of let those guys spread their wings a little bit and see what they can become, because there's still development to be had for those players. And so I'm. I'm interested to see what that looks like. The. The Sixers are. I mean, I am. I am just like, wait and see. On the Sixers, it is all on Joel Embiid shoulders and to a lesser extent, on Paul George's shoulders as to what they become. But they've got interesting young pieces there. And then Milwaukee is literally. It's all about Giannis. Like, what is Giannis capable of?

[Alex Spears]

Yep. The Sixers are. They have the largest gap, as they always do, between their floor and their ceiling of any team league. If the Sixers won 55 games, I'd be like, all right. I guess they could.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

If the Sixers won 27 games, I'd be like, well, they just did that. So.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

That's on the table, too.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

I don't know how many games Embiid is gonna play. I don't know how many games Paul George is gonna play. I don't know how it's gonna look. I'm very interested to see what happens with Quentin Grimes. Free agency.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

I'm very interested to see how they handle their guard rotation with Maxi and McCain back. I think. I think Jared McCannish is. Is really good. I think he has a chance to be really, really good.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, and Vijay, who's drafted third.

[Alex Spears]

I'm really curious to see how that goes. I think they're making a real effort to resign Quentin Grimes, and I would expect that he ends up resigned there. I don't know what that money is going to be. I know Tony Jones reported that he was asking for 25 a year. I don't think he'll get that, but we'll see. Normally, you ask for something, they retaliate, they respond with something, and then you meet in the middle. I just don't know if those guys are going to stay healthy, and I don't know if the culture is going to be strong enough to hold them up when those guys are out. And we'll see. So I have them here and Milwaukee. I'm. It's. I'm worried about the. The guard and wing play. Like, like, who are the. Are you like. Like, who's getting the ball to Giannis? Like Giannis And. And Miles Turner is a. Is a really good front court. Obviously, you've got the best player in the Eastern Conference, and I just described everything you need to know about Miles Turner. Bobby Portis is a really good next big man, just really solid. I am obsessed with Bobby Portis's relationship with the city of Milwaukee. I think it's fantastic. I love that that's where his career went. It's kind of like a Zach Randolph arc in terms of people being like, yeah, thinking the Bobby Portis is, is, you know, a problem. And then it turns out like when he punches mirror ditch. And you know, from everything that I heard, you know Bobby Portis pumping meritage or punching meritage, I, I don't blame him for punching him from everything that I've heard about that story. And, and when I covered Bobby Portis, he was like this beloved teammate. And I was a little surprised based on his reputation to see that. I'm like, everybody loves this guy. And it's, I just think it's great that his arc has completely changed.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. I thought you were about to say I'm obsessed with his relationship with Sean Hyken. That's what I thought you were going to say.

[Alex Spears]

But that I love. When I met Bobby Portis, he said, he just told me they love Sean iken. Shout out to. To. Sean Hyken does a great job covering the Blazers and Bobby Portis just is a huge Shawn Iken fan. It's so funny when a player just like is like a huge fan of, of, of a reading a beat writer. Like, it's so, it's so rare. Like it's. You never hear that. It's so, it is so, so it's so funny. Yeah. Bobby Portis upon when I met him for the first time, him just declaring within like two sentences of just like I love Sean Icon is amazing. It is so funny. Over under 30 Milwaukee. It's over.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Under 33 and a half per game for Giannis this year. Because listen, under. I don't know how, I don't know what I mean. Who takes all the shots for them because like they're bringing a guy. Miles Turner is obviously going to score for them. But like they're like, who is the second score for Milwaukee next year? Are you a business owner looking to grow your business? You did what most dream of doing. Start your own business. And now you're faced with the reality of how to make your small business run smoothly. Intuit QuickBooks can help. QuickBooks is a powerful AI driven all in one business solution. That means those day to day tasks, invoicing expenses, taxes, can be done effortlessly. But here's where it gets really good. You don't need to hire a team of analysts to find growth opportunities hiding in your business data. QuickBooks. QuickBooks can help with cash flow optimization, profit and loss analysis. It helps you see how your business is doing and uncover new ways to be more profitable. QuickBooks can help you unlock the growth of your business so that you can get back to enjoying your business. Manage and grow your business all in one place. Intuit QuickBooks your way to money get 90% off for 3 months limited time only terms and conditions apply. Money Movement services are provided by Intuit Payments Incorporated, licensed as a money Transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. As a salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool, it's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps provide professionals effectively prospect and engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or which accounts you should prioritize, and shows you hidden allies so that you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Whether you're looking for new clients or strengthening relationships of current accounts, LinkedIn Sales Navigator has new AI features to designed to help sellers find the right people and get right to the right conversations, all at scale. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at LinkedIn.com NBashow23 that's LinkedIn.com NBashow23 for a 60 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

[Fred Katz]

As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM. This season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a win a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY 467-369 in New York, call 1-800- NEXT STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 in Massachusetts, 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code the Athletic and you'll get a one year subscription subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like who's the real who's like Kevin porter?

[Alex Spears]

Kevin Porter Jr. Probably.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh boy.

[Alex Spears]

Probably Kevin Porter Jr. Well now you're.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wanting me to put, you're making me want to put Milwaukee in the playing tier.

[Alex Spears]

I mean it probably is. I mean he's, he's, he's going to run the offense. He's going to be the one getting him the ball. It's not going to be Ryan Rollins And Kevin Porter Jr. Is going to have the ball in his hands a lot. And, and the thing what is good for Giannis is that it went a little under the radar last year, I thought from a national level. Giannis got became a much, much better shooter last year and he wasn't training threes. However, Giannis's mid range shooting was significantly better last year than it has ever been.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

And, and the way you know that, I mean I can call up the percentages right here. Like Yana shot 44% on long twos last year, which was the highest percentage of his career. He took 15% of his shots from long two which is, is fine for a superstar player if he's hitting them. And that was the second highest number of his career. His second year of his career he took 19%. He, I mean 44% was his best by a long shot and then from the short mid range he was 48% which was also his best of his career by a long shot. He was way better at shooting off the dribble and more important than the percentages. And by the way those percentages went up with teams guarding him differently because they started to respect his mid range more. And that's what's way more important than the percentages. It is that the fact that teams were guarding him differently. Defenses started to respect the Fact that he got better shooting from the mid range. So what was happening was Giannis could take a guy, he could pump a guy after getting the ball and say, the high post. And it used to be okay, lay off of Giannis a little bit, not all the way, because then he's got steam going to the rim.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And he'll just dunk on you. And if you're 16ft out, then if you lay back all the way, then he's just gonna dunk on you. If you lay off a little bit and you just worry about the drive and the pass and not the shot, then you're okay. And if he takes the shot, you're like, whatever team started to contest the shot, they started to get into him a little bit more. And what you started to see is Giannis got away with some pump fakes and stuff from the mid range, and he'd get a guy to commit to the shot and then he'd just go to the rim. He's become a better creator for himself because of that. He's obviously become a better shooter by becoming a better shooter, but it's opened up more things for him in a more subtle kind of way than when guys like at, you know, Brook Lopez adds an extreme three point shot or something that will be very helpful for him this year. You know, Damian Lillard tearing his Achilles was so big, changed everything. I do think Miles Turner is an upgrade on Brook Lopez. I don't know if he's enough of an upgrade that it warrants paying him 27 million a year, plus paying Damian Lillard 22 million a year of dead cat money. Miles Turner for 27 years is fine on its face. It's. It's the dead money from stretching Lillard that hurts. But yeah, yeah, the bucks are not great, Bob.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Not. Not in great position.

[Alex Spears]

But Giannis is so amazing that, like, I don't know. Yeah, they just win 46 games because Giannis, like Giannis could just be the MVP this year, you know?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

Like, Giannis could just be the MVP and he could average 33 and 13 and 6 and play amazing defense and, you know, then they go nuts.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, I think that's totally possible. Like, this could be his. His Kobe year, you know, where it's like, Kobe's playing with Chris Mim and he's just like, leading the league in scoring. And like, maybe there is, like, they like, smush Parker to Kevin Porter Jr. Like, I'm actually liking this comp a little bit more. Like, this makes some sense. And then like, they're gonna have to figure out a way. A path forward from there, and I don't know what that looks like, but they're gonna have to figure it out. And they're. They're willing to be creative. They're willing to. I mean, it was audacious for them to do what they did with Dame. Like, it just. It's crazy. But if you're keeping Giannis, you have to do crazy stuff with the position that they're in, because the amount of draft picks they have, they don't have it. The amount of good players around him, they're all kind of gone. And so the fact that they were able to just manufacture a player in Miles Turner is pretty impressive. And I don't. I kind of hate the. Oh, well, he's not that much better than Brook Lopez. Like, he's. He's quite a bit better than Brook Lopez at this stage in both of their careers. So, like, I don't like people saying that. I think that is. That's not totally fair to the situation. I think that they are in a better position today than they were before. Are they closer to a title? No, Like, I don't think that they're, like, going to win the title. I don't think they're better than a lot of teams in the Eastern Conference, but I don't know what their other options were, you know, as far as, like, trying to contend. Okay, next tier.

[Alex Spears]

Can I. Can I just add.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

Eric Name. Eric Name made the great point. They just played in the first round playoff series. The Bucks and the Pacers.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And Miles Turner played Brook Lopez off the floor. And Brooke Lopez did not play Miles Turner off the floor.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

That's probably a good indicator of who the superior player is. Yeah, that's an Eric name point, and it was a very good one.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep, That's a very, very good point. I like that one. Okay, Fringe contenders. I think this is where I probably look at Detroit, who hasn't done much this off season, but if I were them, I wouldn't feel the need to. I think that there's a lot of development that needs to happen in Detroit. I think they're on the right track. I think that they made a lot of moves last off season that helped propel them to where they are, and I think staying the course makes sense. Who else do you have in this tier? I think I probably have. This is probably where I'm putting Atlanta and Orlando as well. And I don't. We can kind of quibble with who we have in these two spots because these are rankings within these tiers, but thoughts on these three? Is this who you'd have in this tier as well?

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, I feel pretty strongly about having Orlando as the number one team in that tier.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

But. But I have those three teams in that tier. Detroit is a little confusing for me because that team last year, such a huge part of that team was Malik Beasley just wrecking from three. I know was Tim Hardaway Jr. Getting hot from three. And at the end of the year because their offense went to crap after the IV injury when Cade was off the court and they were like 10 points per 100 possessions. Worse when Cade was off the court during that time and they brought in Dennis Schroeder. And Shooter was so important for them writing the ship. He was so important for them enough so that he would actually close games next to Cade as a second ball handler. And he was also really important for them defensively because he gave them an element of a full court press. And they could, they could. They could pressure you full court with him, and they could pressure your full court with Asar Thompson, and that was really big for them. All that being said, Kate is still really young, and I seriously doubt he's done getting better. I'm sure he will have the best year of his career this year, just like he's had the best year of his career every year of his career. I think Asar Thompson is this unbelievable talent and is going to be incredibly good. And my bold prediction, it's a bold prediction that I recognize as crazy, but I do actually believe it. Like, I'm not just saying it for effect. My bold prediction is that the Thompson twins will be the first pair of siblings to each win Defensive Player of the Year. I think they are both going to win Defensive Players of the Year during their careers.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They're very good. They're both extreme.

[Alex Spears]

They're extraordinary. And Asar, still a man, is farther along in a sar, and he's farther along as a defender. Asar is still learning discipline in a lot of places. He still has bad fouls. He still reaches too much. He's still, you know, foot placement or balance will be off, but oh, my goodness, the dude's a monster. And if he played enough last year, he would have been right there in, like, all defensive team contention. Not defensive player of the year contention, but all defensive team contention. And he is a unbelievable competitor and an insane talent. And the most absurd would be the best athlete in the world if, if, if, if God didn't make a actual copy of him. The only way that God could find somebody as athletic as a sar Thompson was like, well I guess the only choice is to just make two of them. I can only match it. I can't exceed it. I he's. I just, I love watching that dude play. And they've got a great identity, no question. And Bickerstaff did an awesome job with them last year and yeah, Isaiah Stewart had a great year for them.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

They, they were very impressive team last year. I do think Orlando is the way to go. They were playing at a 50 win pace until they had all the injuries.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

And then when Paolo came back they still really struggled. Desmond Bain is, is a great addition for them on both sides of the court.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

He's going to take a lot more playmaking duties and he's going to be able to shoot which is big for them and yeah, will help them offensively. They were compared to league average. I don't know what the numbers say but I am just going to say that that was the worst shooting team of all time last year. Compared to what like you should be in your era. That was just a disastrous three point shooting team. They were easily the worst three point shooting team in the NBA and it wasn't even. They weren't even close to 29. They weren't even close to 29. Nowhere near.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And I think 31.

[Alex Spears]

In some ways people are crazy. Yeah, in some ways people are talking about the Bane edition like it's like oh well now they got it. It's like no, they weren't even close to 29. They're still going to be a really bad shooting team. Yeah, like they're still going to be a really bad shooting team. But Bain will help a very large amount. He's a very good underrated player. Might be the best player in the NBA who's never made an all star team. And Tyus Jones I thought was a great signing. He's perfect. I thought he would have been great for them last year. They need the point guard. A lot of it will come down to the health of Jalen Suggs too because Suggs has been hurt a lot in his career and if he can stay healthy for a whole year, like he is so important to them in terms of running their offense, being able to be a point and then also being one of the best point of attack defenders in the NBA. That's tremendously important for them. They have a chance to be the best defense in the NBA teams. Team's good. I think they'll win 50 games.

[Andrew Schlecht]

There were six players on the Magic that took 200 or more threes who shot the best percentage, and what was it?

[Alex Spears]

Six players on the Magic who took 200 or more threes. So the players have got to be. Players have got to be Paulo, Bronze, Apollo and Franz.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep, that's Caldwell Pope, one and three. Yep, that's the top three. So Franz, KCP, Paulo, and then this is wild. Doug's only played 35 games. He's number four.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, I'm gonna say KCP was around 34, right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

I feel like it's either that or it's somebody, like, random that I'm gonna shock the world with. Like, it's like. It's like. Like Tristan De Silva or some.

[Andrew Schlecht]

De Silva was.

[Alex Spears]

Sorry, can I say no, no.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But Tristan de Silva was fifth. He took 239 threes. But he's not.

[Alex Spears]

You know what?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Not had the best.

[Alex Spears]

I'm gonna guess. I'm gonna guess that it's one of the two guys who they traded for Desmond Bain. I'm gonna guess that it's. It's. I think it's either Cole Anthony or it's. Or it's kcp. I'm gonna go kcp.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, you should have gone with the other one. It's Cole Anthony. He's sixth in attempts. And the shot 35.3%. That's the best for the team.

[Alex Spears]

And that's below league average.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes. So, like, Da Silva, 33%. Suggs, 31%, Paulo, 32%, KCP, 34%. Franz Wagner, who took 352 threes, was 29% from three. Like, they're not only like, did they need to get shooting, but there needs to be internal development with their shooting so badly if they're going to make this leap as a French contender. Like Franz. And Paulo and Suggs have to shoot better. Like, they just have to. It's not on everybody else, and it's great that they got Desmond Bain who's going. Who's going to help with the spacing. But those guys just flat out have to shoot better. Like, Franz Wagner has to rediscover his shot again, because if he doesn't, like, that's going to put a cap on this team, because I don't know how else they score. Because when you get to the playoffs, it's hard enough to score when you're an immensely talented team. I mean, the Thunder struggled to score in the playoffs in different spots a lot, and now it's like okay, how does that, how does this team that cannot find spacing score in the playoffs? I mean that, that to me is. Is a massive question. It's a massive question that they've got to answer.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, no question. I mean they've put a lot of stock in the creation of Paolo and Franz, but part of it is it's not just shooting threes, it's also creating threes. They were not great at creating good threes this year and I think that is something that Desmond Bain will help them with. That is. And he's a good pull up shooter too. That's something that ties Jones will probably help them with. And I think honestly the answer might just be like we're talking about the flaws offensively but we're calling them a 50 win team. And the reason why is because they are the best defensive team in the Eastern Conference. Yeah, everybody on that team guards when they're healthy. I mean Suggs is an all defense caliber guy.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh no, Apollo's good.

[Alex Spears]

Franz is good. They're absolutely huge. Wendell Carter, good team defender.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

Jonathan Isaac is like the best per minute defender in the Eastern Conference. But he can't play more than 15 minutes it seems. But he is insane when you put him out there. Just unbelievably versatile defensive player. And you, you go through the way they play, they are just so physical. They beat the hell out of you. Go, go. Batase is good guarding the rim. They have this Anthony Black. Yep. Anthony Black will full court press you. They play with energy. They're unbelievably physical. Bane is good. He knows how to play within a physical defense. He uses his chest well. He's b. Desmond Bane is the best negative wingspan defender in the NBA. And like you look at the way that they play defensively, it's like I think the way they're going to have to compensate for it offensively. If Zach Low says this all the time, they haven't had a top 10 offense since 20 or top 20 offense since 2012. Like the way that you get out of the bottom 10 in offense for the first time in a decade and a fraction is you get a whole ton of stops and then you go. Because Franz is very good in transition. Yeah, thugs can be good in transition. Bane can be good in transition. He can pull up threes in transition. He can flank to the wings and transition, hit threes from there. You maybe just have to go offensively when you get turnovers, when you get stops, when you get rebounds. One of the things that they can benefit from is the fact that they play a lot of bigs. Who are the guys who are getting. The boards are capable of just going. So maybe you're just like Paolo. Just. Just go. You get the board. Just go now, immediately get into a set 19 on the clock. Go attack a mismatch or try to score on the break. And that could be enough to hold up an offense.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

So that could. That could be something. That could be something. But we'll see. They don't have to be great offensively.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They just have to, like, get by regular season. Yes. I, I have a hard time seeing the. The playoffs is where I really need to see it, you know, because, like, what you're describing is. Is not always readily available in the playoffs. And so if they're going to be like a fringe contender, if they're going to win a round or two in the playoffs, they're going to have to find other ways, you know, to score. Because a lot of times it is you. You play in the mud. And when the Magic's offense gets in the mud, it usually just stays there. And.

[Alex Spears]

Yes.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Doesn't get out.

[Alex Spears]

Totally.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Atlanta. We haven't talked about Atlanta. And this is why, like, I would not be surprised if by the end of the season, Atlanta's above Orlando. Just because offensively, they could be super fun. Like, this could be a super, super fun team that just makes way more sense. I mean, they're. They're kind of like the anti Magic in a lot of ways.

[Alex Spears]

The dark magic.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The dark magic of the Atlanta Hawks. I. I think this team is.

[Alex Spears]

They're the Atlanta reality.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They're super. They're super fun. Man, I. I am really excited and really like, what. What they've done. I think they've. They have put together a really fun basketball team that I don't. I don't know exactly how good they're going to be, but this is at least going to be a league pass team.

[Alex Spears]

Oh, yeah. I'm gonna say a disclaimer before I make this comment.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

I do not expect them to trade Trey Young. Yeah, he's eligible for an extension. Yeah, I don't expect that to happen. That's not what I'm implying here at all. The Atlanta Hawks have a very obvious type, and that type is the exact opposite player of what Trae Young is.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, it's true.

[Alex Spears]

And they say it's not because, well, Trey brings a lot to the table, but also takes a lot off the table. And so you have to surround them with these guys who can compensate they say this is just the type we like. And so we're trying to bring those guys in. And it works around Trey because these are the types of guys who work around anyone. You could swap out Trey and replace him with anyone and these guys would fit. That's the whole reason we want them. They're versatile, team oriented players who can help you in any context. And it's a fair point. And I, I believe that to be true because it is. I mean, Kristaps Porzingis is another guy who. I feel like he took too much flack for a terrible playoff run and I. He had this, you know, disease that we don't. The virus that we. Yeah, we don't know about, but it's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Talk about it. I don't know what it was, but it was very weird.

[Alex Spears]

Yes. He says he's gonna be okay and we're talking about him like he's nothing now because he had a virus in the playoffs. When it's like, I don't know if we don't know what it is and he says he's okay, then like Chris Porzingis was great during the regular season. He was awesome. When he returned for the finals a couple years ago when the Celtics won the title and unbelievable. There were people who were genuinely trying to argue until like a few months ago there was a sect of Celtics people who tried to argue that their second best player, second most important player was not Jalen Brown and it was not Derrick White. It was Christops Porzingis because you couldn't replace what he gave them. Nikhil Alexander Walker, great fit. Dyson Daniels, best defensive guard in the NBA last season. Jalen Johnson is going to be back and he by the way is on a really nice contract. They signed him. 30 million a year. I think that's a really good number. And he's really talented. Did a lot more off the dribble last year. Better passer than ever. They were able to get off of the Terrence Mann long term money which I thought was a really underrated part of the Porzingis trade that they were able to do both those things getting off of of man and also still being able to acquire Porzingis. Luke Canard is, is a nice get for them. He's going to do stuff off the dribble like a Kongwu is, is a very versatile defender. They've got a lot of versatile defenders. I thought Risa Shea was really good for a defensive rookie last year. They, they, they got some, they got good players like that team. The team's good. Their books are relatively clean now. They, the best trade they made, the best acquisition they made this year wasn't even for players. It was the, the trade for the New Orleans unprotected.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. And they have that draft pick that, I mean, who knows what happens there like that that could help propel them to contender status in the Eastern Conference. You know that. Yeah, that is, that is a true reality for them. And so yeah, I think this is a good spot for them. Okay. So that leaves us with two contenders. We can talk about where to put these teams. I still probably would put Cleveland above the Knicks because there's just questions about what did the Knicks look like with a new head coach. And you know, I think there's, there's, I mean there's health questions with both teams certainly, but there's health questions with, with the Knicks. I don't know. I'm, I'm curious to see what your perspective is with, with these two teams and this is, or if this is how you would order these two.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, I struggle because I do think Cleveland is going to win more games in the regular season.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

Like for sure.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

They won 64 last year. They lost Ty Jerome. They added Lonzo Ball. Thought the Lonzo Ball move was good for them. He'll be, they could use that extra defensive minded guard considering Garland and, and, and Mitchell are at the top of their, their defense and Yep, Lonzo is still a very good defender.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

He's a really good spot up shooter. He's really just a spot up shooter now, but he's a really good spot up shooter and an unbelievably smart player and a great kick ad passer and he's still, you know, awesome when he can initiate transition, that kind of stuff. It's a really good role player and he just plays the game in the every right way. I, I thought that was a good move for them. Brought back Sam Merrill. They won 64 last year. The east is worse. Like if they don't annihilate this year. That's a concern. Yeah, that's a real concern. If they don't destroy this year. I'm not saying they have to win more than 64 games because more than 64 games is crazy. But they should annihilate the east this year. They really should.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

The thing that I keep coming back to with them is they keep flaming out of the playoffs in these epic fashions.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex Spears]

You know, and I get it. I get it. I know Cavs fans are going to say to Me, well, everyone was hurt last year. I don't know. They played.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, they played.

[Alex Spears]

They were on the court.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Everybody has these stories after. Whether you win or lose, there are stories. You know, Jalen Williams had to have surgery on his wrist this week, you know, and, and totally played through it. It's like ev. It's. This is not, it's not a unique thing to the Cavs. There are, there are teams that are not even going to tell you. Not that these guys are having surgery, but the guys are recovering right now from injuries that they sustain in the playoffs. Like, every single team has this.

[Alex Spears]

If you play, I got to evaluate you on how you play compared to how I. How what your normal standard is. And reality is the Cavs flamed out. And if they were a playoff juggernaut for, you know, years and years and then they flamed out, I'd have been like, okay, well, you know what, maybe I'd look at it a little differently, but because they, they won a first round series last year, but it was a somewhat uninspiring series against Orlando in a really ugly seven game series. And look, I mean, management there was unhappy enough with it that they got rid of J.B. bickerstaff in the process. That was two years ago. And the year before, they just got. I mean, they had home court advantage. They had the second best net rating in the Eastern Conference, and they just got. It was one of the greater butt kickings that you could have in a five game series. Like it was a five game series that felt like a sweep when they lost to the Knicks in that series where the Knicks just manhandled them. And you talk to teams around the league and people aren't shivering about Cleveland. I think they got to prove it. So that's where I'm a little confused about whether I put Cleveland one or two. The Knicks, meanwhile, were kind of the opposite of Cleveland, where all regular season I was like, this team is not operating at anywhere near max capacity. They cannot figure out how Brunson and Cat can't figure out how to make each other better than they already are. Mikhail Bridges does not look comfortable on either side of the ball. He has not been a good enough defender at the point of attack. They did not run as well. The offense after January 1st was 16th in points per possession. And it was supposed to be an elite offense. And they went three and a half months at 16th. They stopped running pick and rolls close to his offing with Cat and, and Brunson, as they did early in the year. And Then they get to the playoffs and they play in and they looked like a team who would not. They were an unphysical team. Yeah, they go in the playoffs, they play Detroit in a very physical series, and they went out in a physical battle. They go and they play Boston, who everybody and their mother thought that they would get destroyed by, and they win that series legitimately. Like, Tatum gets hurt, but they're about to fall down 3:1. Boston's about to fall down 3:1. When Tatum gets hurt, they win that. They win that series legitimately.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

And then they have a competitive series with Indiana where they lose. You know, game one will haunt them forever. But they lose. They lose four two. And I don't know what to make of this team now that Mike Brown's going to take over, because certain things will change, certain things won't, and I don't know what it'll be. Will Mikhail Bridges look more comfortable? I don't think he and Tibbs were a great fit there. Will Mitchell Robinson just be a greater presence for them all year? Because he was absolutely unbelievable in the playoffs, and that was one of the things that really drove their. Their postseason success. And they didn't have that in the regular season because he was hurt for essentially the whole year. And then when he came back, he was kind of recovering, wasn't himself until really the postseason run. If Mitchell Robinson's going to play like that the course of a full year, which he might not, because he. His health is always going to be a question, but if he is, how's that going to change the dynamic of the team? They signed Jordan Clarkson, they signed Gershon Yabuzeli. I think those both kind of fill a need defensively. They're both question marks on a team that already has defensive question marks with Kat and Brunson in their starting lineup.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So.

[Alex Spears]

I don't know what to make of which team should be where right now, but I. I will say that these are easily the two teams in the East. And I will also say that I think if either of these teams do not win the east, there will be massive disappointment in their spots.

[Andrew Schlecht]

No question.

[Alex Spears]

If Cleveland does not win the east, they are going to be so disappointed. And if the Knicks don't win the east after just firing their coach and then their. Their president putting out a statement in conjunction with the firing saying they are singularly focused on winning a championship and they didn't feel like Tom Thibodeau would be the guy to help him win a championship. And then they hire Mike Brown When. And they don't do it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep.

[Alex Spears]

They are going to be tremendously disappointed, too. Like, to the point that, like, then there could be moves depending on how it goes down. So, like, both those teams feel like, oh, if we don't win this conference, then we royally messed up.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. And like, and this is the year. Like, this is the year. The Pacers are gone, the Celtics are gone as we knew them. The Bucks don't have a squad around Giannis. Like, the teams that are in this French contender status are all young or have a ton of question marks. Like, this is the year for these teams for both franchises. This is their shot to get to the NBA Finals. This is it. If it doesn't. I agree. If this, if it doesn't happen this year, like the fan disappointment, the franchise disappointment, what happens internally with both squads is up in the air because, like, this is the most. I mean, this past year, the east was open. It is unquestionably open. This year. Like, it is. It is. Yeah. These teams both need to make the Easter Conference finals. And whoever loses is going to be extremely disappointed if it's not one of. If it's not both these teams in the east finals. If the Knicks lose early or if the Cavs lose early, I do think that there will be some upheaval going on in either city. Okay, to recap real quick, the contenders, the Cavs and Knicks. I have the Cavs over the Knicks, but it is like razor thin for. For me. Like, you could. You could talk me into the Knicks being over the Cavs, but I'm going to put the Cavs there. Then we go Magic, Atlanta, Detroit as French contenders with the Magic at the top. We have the dark horse teams. We have the Bucks, Sixers, Celtics, which is like the injured dark horse tier here where Bucks first, then the Sixers and then the Celtics. I actually think I might move the Celtics into the middle just because I. I don't know. The Sixers just terrify me. The play in range. We have the Pacers, Heat, Bulls, then the Raptors, and then the losers for Boozer, we have the Hornets, Nets, and then the Washington Wizards.

[Alex Spears]

Can I ask you a question?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex Spears]

Do you speak Hebrew?

[Andrew Schlecht]

No. What did I say?

[Alex Spears]

Because, I mean, so for our. Our people who are just listening on audio, Andrew's got his tears up here. He's got a little graphic on the screen.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Huh.

[Alex Spears]

And you've listed your rankings right to left instead of left to right. I was so confused. I'm like, he's got Nicks. Then Cavs. He's got Pistons, Hawks, magic. But you're reading it in the opposite direction.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I don't know why I'm doing that. Maybe. Maybe it is like this. Maybe I'm acquiring Hebrew through, like, osmosis.

[Alex Spears]

Yeah, you've been. You've been sitting around reading the Torah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

In its original form.

[Alex Spears]

I feel like I'm back in Hebrew school and I'm like, about to sing the Shema. I got the.

[Andrew Schlecht]

If you want to sing us out, maybe that would be a great way to end this pod. Fred, thanks for taking the time. Any. Anything you want to quibble with before we go? Besides the way that I do things.

[Alex Spears]

I mean, there are a lot of things I want to quibble with. If we're going to open that door, we could be here for a long time. No, I just wanted to apologize again for not being Alex Spears.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex Spears]

For. For taking up so much of your time. And this was fun. I always love potting with you.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, no, this is great. Appreciate you guys. Give you guys some July 4th weekend listening as you guys are traveling or whatever else. We will be. We'll be back next week with the full slate of shows and we will be in Vegas for summer league with the NBA Daily Crew and with the Slammin Jam crew and Fred will be there too. It'll be great. So please come check us out. We'll be. We'll have shows Friday and Saturday on the concourse at the arena, so we'd love to see you guys there. I'll list the times out on the shows next week and then also out on Twitter and everything. So there's a. There's a place where you can come on the concourse to watch the shows live if you would like to. We would appreciate that. And also again, Andrew versus the Street. If you're just walking around and you're wearing a jersey of a specific team, we may grab you to do some trivia. So would love to see you guys out there. Hope everybody's doing great. Leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts and we'll read it on the show. We'll be back next week with a live version of Slam and Jam. So really excited for that. I hope you guys have a great weekend, enjoy the basketball content, and we'll talk to you guys again next Saturday. If you're listening to this, you're ready.

[Alex Spears]

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[Andrew Schlecht]

Is Paige, the co host of Giggly Squad. I use Uber Eats for everything and I feel like people forget that you can truly order anything, especially living in New York City. It's why I love it. You can get Chinese food at any time of night, but it's not just for food. I order from CVS all the time. I'm always ordering from the grocery store. If a friend stops over I have to order champagne. I also have this thing that whenever I travel, if I'm ever in a hotel room, I never feel like I'm missing something because I'll just Uber Eats it. The amount of times I've had to Uber eats hair items like hairspray, deodorant, you name it, I've ordered it. On Uber Eats. You can get grocery alcohol everyday essentials in addition to restaurants and food you love. So in other words, get almost anything with Uber Eats. Order now for alcohol. You must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. The youth mental health crisis is growing.

[Alex Spears]

And social media is a major driver.

[Andrew Schlecht]

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[Alex Spears]

Studies show a linked to anxiety, depression.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And even suicidal thoughts. That's where Gab comes in. Gab offers safe phones and watches with no Internet or social media. Just the right tech at the right time. From smart watches for young kids to advanced parent managed phones for teens, Gab keeps kids connected safely. Visit gab.com getgab and use code getgab for a special offer that's G-A B B.com getgab Gab tech insteps independence for them, peace of mind for parents.