Thunder bounce back to tie WCF

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: Thunder bounce back to tie WCF (May 21, 2026)

Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita
Guests: Jared Weiss, Andrew Schlecht

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Episode Overview

This episode covers Game 2 of the Western Conference Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and San Antonio Spurs. The Thunder evened the series 1-1 with a gritty, physical win, marking a stark contrast to the blowout in Game 1. The hosts dive into the key adjustments, the evolving battle between stars like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Victor Wembanyama, a rash of injuries, and what both teams need to do heading into Game 3. There's also a robust discussion on the deeper themes of youth, fatigue, and defensive intensity that are shaping one of the most dynamic series in recent NBA memory.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Thunder’s Adjustment: Physicality and Rebounding

• Hartenstein’s Role:
  The biggest on-court adjustment for OKC was the decision to play Isaiah Hartenstein significant minutes against Wembanyama, providing much-needed physicality, especially on the glass.

  "Isaiah Hartenstein had 8 offensive rebounds, 10 extra shots for the Thunder on those rebounds...this is how you can get away with stuff against Wemby."
  — Dave DuFour (06:32)

• Contrast with Game 1:
  Thunder looked more composed and executed Mark Daigneault’s adjustments, while the Spurs’ intensity dipped, perhaps due to fatigue.

• Rebounding Battle:

  • Thunder: 41 rebounds (Game 2)
  • Spurs: Dropped from 61 (G1) to 45 (G2)

• The Thunder also swung the ball better, notching nine more assists in Game 2.

2. Shea Gilgeous-Alexander: Evolution Under Pressure

• Shea’s Resilience and Adaptation:
  After a tough Game 1, he responded with 30 points and 9 assists, showcasing an ability to adapt rather than be “unbothered.”

  "He still put up 30. I'm not saying it's wrecking his game. It's causing him to adjust...knowing that they were going to also send another guy...If you can touch Wemby, the corner was open."
  — Dave DuFour (07:44)

• Awareness vs. Unbothered Debate:
  Zena Keita distinguished “unbothered” from “aware,” praising Shea’s ability to absorb adversity and keep attacking, especially getting to his signature midrange spots.

3. Victor Wembanyama’s Impact and Spurs Adjustments

• Wemby’s Influence:

  • Even when not dominant, his presence warps OKC’s decision-making—players are constantly aware of where he is.
  • Defensive impact slightly less than Game 1 ("first half he really kind of coasted" — Dave).

• Adjustment Needed:
  Spurs need to find ways to keep Wemby fresher, get him better post position, and help their guards manage Thunder’s defensive ball pressure.

4. Turnovers, Injuries, and Depth

• Turnover Problems:

  • Spurs: 43 turnovers over two games, with Stephon Castle responsible for 20 (a postseason record for the first two games).
  • Despite this, the Spurs kept both games close, emphasizing their baseline talent and Wemby’s game-changing ability.

  "43 turnovers in the two games and...this game was still close with two minutes left and it should not have been."
  — Dave DuFour (11:56)

• Injuries Piling Up:

  • Spurs lost Dylan Harper (hamstring), creating an even bigger ball-handling void with De'Aaron Fox already out.
  • OKC’s Jalen Williams and AJ Mitchell also suffered knocks, but Thunder's experience with lineup shuffling better positions them for attrition.

• Depth and Next Man Up:
  Thunder have more flexibility with players who can step up, while the Spurs' options look limited if their top guards remain out.

5. Chet Holmgren's Continued Struggles

• Lack of Two-Way Impact:
  Despite flashes, Chet has yet to have a signature impact on either end.
  • Most of his points came with Wemby off the floor (13 points; 10 when Wemby sat).
  • Defensive presence not felt—no blocks in Game 2.

  "He's just not been very good on either end...I have to wonder if we don’t start seeing those minutes get cut a little further, even in favor of Hartenstein."
  — Dave DuFour (19:11)

  • Panel wonders: Does Chet need early offensive touches for confidence? Mark Daigneault may need to scheme for it.

6. Alex Caruso's Breakout and Thunder Bench

• Bench X-Factor:
  Caruso has been indispensable—second-best Thunder player in the series so far, unfazed by Spurs' rim protection.
  • Caruso: 17 points, 3/4 from three in Game 2.
  • Provides “reckless abandon,” in contrast to more reserved teammates against Wemby.

  "Alex Caruso been the Second best player for the Thunder in the series so far...he's just unafraid."
  — Dave DuFour (43:33)

• Other Bench Revelations:
  Kaysen Wallace praised for defense and timely three-point shooting; Jared McCain's movement shooting highlighted as a new Thunder weapon.

7. The Series' Physical and Mental Toll

• "This Series is Gonna Take Some Bodies":
  Both teams are young and physically relentless, but the style is exposing them to injury and fatigue. The hosts repeatedly note the difference between this series and the slower, older Eastern Conference Final.

8. Young Teams, Future Dynasty?

• High-Level Defense and Imperfect Offense:
  Defense is elite, offense still raw. These teams are still maturing; both the Thunder and Spurs are considered ahead of schedule.

  “If these teams stay together and they're able to stay healthy for like the next five years, it's hard to imagine like what both teams could look like.”
  — Jared Weiss (51:53)

• Coaching Chess Match:
  Both coaching staffs praised for rapid tactical moves—each game is a challenge-response scenario. Daignault’s Game 2 adjustments were especially lauded.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Adjusting to Wemby:

  “It’s like playing against an octopus out there. You don’t really have much of a chance.”
  — Dave DuFour (07:12)

• On Turnovers:

  “The number one headline would have been 11 turnovers for Stephon Castle...now that this game has been lost, we are looking at these little cracks.”
  — Zena Keita (15:34)

• On Hartenstein’s Minutes and Impact:

  “But Zay didn’t win the game on the glass, there’s a good chance the Spurs could have pulled that out.”
  — Andrew Schlecht (37:49)

• On the Series Tone:

  “This is two of the best basketball games I’ve maybe ever watched...the micro adjustments between these two coaching staffs—it’s some of the best coaching in the NBA right now.”
  — Dave DuFour (27:10)

• On Caruso’s Swagger:

  “That step-back midi on Wemby...who do you think you are? That was unbelievable...he’s goated right now.”
  — Jared Weiss (43:37, 43:26)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Thunder Adjustment & Physicality: 02:49 – 06:32
• Shea’s Response & Evolution: 03:17 – 10:17
• Injuries and Game Physicality: 04:46 – 06:31
• Turnover and Depth Discussion: 11:50 – 15:34
• Chet Holmgren’s Struggles: 19:03 – 25:25; 48:05 – 51:53
• Bench Performances & Caruso: 41:33 – 44:28; 43:26
• Fatigue, Youth & Series Outlook: 51:19 – 54:06
• Coaching and Defensive Chessmatch: 27:10; 46:13 – 47:59
• Preview & Adjustments for Game 3: 56:27 – 60:02

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Looking Ahead: Game 3 & Series Implications

• Star Health is Crucial:
  The series could tip based on which side is healthier, especially among ball-handlers (Fox, Harper for Spurs; Jalen Williams, Mitchell for Thunder).
• Thunder’s Versatility:
  With experience dealing with injuries, Thunder are favored if Spurs remain shorthanded.
• Adjustments Battle:
  Next round goes to Spurs coach Mitch Johnson—can he fix turnover issues and get more easy looks for Wemby?

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Summary

This episode encapsulates the tension, tactical chess match, and physical toll of one of the most energetic Conference Finals in recent history. The Thunder’s Game 2 victory was less about shooting luck and more about brute physicality, rebounding hustle, and making just enough offensive adjustments. For the Spurs, the loss exposed cracks—turnovers, overreliance on young guards, and the need to keep Wemby fresh amid a war of attrition. The hosts highlight the evolving narrative of Shea vs. Wemby, the significance of depth, and openly wonder if the winner will even have enough left for the Finals.

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Listeners get an honest, energizing, and insightful breakdown of the basketball being played, the personalities shaping the series, and what’s next as the WCF continues.

Transcript

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[Dave Dufour]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for May 21, 2026. I'm Dave Dufour here with Zena Keda. Coming up, Game two of the Western Conferen Finals did not go like Game one. Thunder. Even the series, we're going to hit it from all angles. Good morning everybody. What is up Xena? How are you?

[Zena Keda]

I'm doing well. I feel a little bit more settled after this game than I did after game one, but still a really good game that came down to the last minutes.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I mean, I think that settled is kind of a good place to start. The Thunder looked more settled in Game 2. Looked much more like the Thunder that we were used to. Shay Gildas Alexander was making shots. They were physical. I think, you know, the physicality helped them win this game big time. Especially Isaiah Hartenstein on. On Wimy.

[Zena Keda]

Agreed.

[Dave Dufour]

What, what's your main takeaway? Just first thing that jumps out for you from game two?

[Zena Keda]

Well, one, Shea Gildis Alexander looked like he needed to prove some points. He probably was listening or hear reading or something because all of America was saying that was a weird game for Shay. He probably will do that two times in a row. And he had to prove some. Prove that to many people. So, yeah, yeah. Shay Gildas Alexander was unbothered from the start of the game. You saw Spawn Castle try to be physical with him and, you know, multiple folks being thrown at him on switches, and he was just getting to a spot, getting right within the three point line, right. You know, in that mid range spot. And I think it was Reggie Miller or Jamal Crawford that called it out. Like, that's exactly where he needs to keep getting to. Um, and he set the tone from how unbothered he looked. And then the rest of the team, I think, looked very similarly. The second thing that I noticed was, you know, one, I'm still looking at Chet. I'm still looking at Chet. Like, hold on, homeboy. You know, I appreciate that Isaiah Hartenstein came in and did what he was supposed to do in terms of just, you know, jamming up Wemby and making it difficult for him to catch, for him to move him to screen and roll. He did exactly what he was supposed to do from that regard. And he also, that little hook shot, I mean, the little push shot, he had some drop at the, you know, timely moment. So Isaiah Hartenstein did his thing.

[Dave Dufour]

I. I'm gonna push back on your Shay thing, but continue.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. Yeah. The last thing I noticed was the. This series is gonna take some bodies with it.

[Dave Dufour]

Wow. Yeah.

[Zena Keda]

And it just thinking of the pace of this game because OKC picked up their pace from what you saw from, you know, the jump in the first quarter. And you see Dylan Harper go out with a hamstring situation. Jillian Jalen Williams, who had been dealing with a hamstring injury that had caused the absence of him for 20 plus games during the regular season. Goes out with this hamstring injury. You saw A.J. mitchell go down and grab his leg, and you're just like, oh, God, please, not another body. But you could just tell just how physical and how demanding this game is or this series is right now.

[Dave Dufour]

Maybe I'll start there, actually, because the pace of this series is something that I think stands out. And I mentioned this on last or on yesterday's show, that watching the Western Conference finals.

[Zena Keda]

Yes, you did.

[Dave Dufour]

And the Eastern Conference finals feels like two different sports. The biggest difference, Xena, is that if you're 30 in the NBA now, you're old, and these are two young teams that are able to be this physical. And I think what we're seeing is two young, physical teams reaching a breaking point physically, almost. Right. Like, just the way these guys are going down, the way that they're having to play, I mean, they're flying all over the court. And we know obviously the game now is played at 94ft, but no one's playing like the Oklahoma City Thunder in the San Antonio Spurs. And that physicality, we saw that it was the. The hallmark of game two. Between the injuries to. To Jalen Williams, injury to Dylan Harper, injury to AJ Mitchell, and all of the. Just. I mean, there's no other way to put this. The grabbing and the pushing that happens in the paint in this series, I think that that is a huge factor in. In the series, both ways.

[Zena Keda]

Agreed, agreed.

[Dave Dufour]

But right now, the Thunder are getting the best of that. I mean, Isaiah Hardenstein had eight offensive rebound, 10 extra shots for the Thunder on those rebounds. And you got to give them credit. A lot of people are going to be complaining. They're saying, oh, got to send this tape to the NBA. I think you got to send this tape to other bigs around the league so they know this is how you can get away with stuff against Wimby. Like, they're not going to call everything. And I. I think we might even be watching an evolution in the way that Wemby's officiated because he is so good. And I think it's. He's now on the map. And I'm not saying that they're going to treat him like Shaq, because Shaq got fouled on every single possession. But I think Wemby's going to be up there.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think it's going to be like

[Dave Dufour]

80, 90% of the time, especially inside, we're going to be able to say, wow, that's probably a foul that someone's grabbing Wemby. But that being Said it's like playing against an octopus out there. Right. It is just. It feels as if you don't really have much of a chance. But to your point about Shea being unbothered, he put up 30 points, 12, 24 from the field. Then he got blocked a couple of times by guys who weren't Wemby because he was worried about Wemby. The guy was able to come in from behind.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Carter Bryant got the other one. And so it's not. I don't. I don't want to say unbothered, because I actually think Wemby is in his head a little bit now. He's the mvp. Having a seven and a half foot alien sent to this planet to destroy the sport in your head, that's totally fine because he still put up 30. I'm not saying it's wrecking his game. It's causing him to adjust. And we're seeing that he had nine assists in this game, and I thought he did a really great job a couple of times and just taking it to Wimby's chest, knowing that they were going to also send another guy. Like, he's got a guy on him. So now you got two guys. If you can touch Wemby. The corner was open. And, you know, Alex Caruso has just been making the spurs pay. He follows up the 8 of 14 night, 3 of 4 from 3. 17 points for Caruso. But this is the difference. I do think that Shea is very aware of where Wemby is at all time on the court because he's not challenging him at the rim. And that's probably not very smart, to be honest with you. But he was making. He was making something out of nothing, essentially. Like the difference between game one Shay and game two is that he was letting things come to him quite a bit, but he was forcing the issue by getting into. Into the paint, trying to get to that little, you know, that little 1012 footer that he likes to get to on the side. Absolutely. So unbothered. I. I just. I disagree with the term.

[Zena Keda]

So wait, hold on.

[Dave Dufour]

He's evolving, right?

[Zena Keda]

Okay, fair. But I think that there's. It's important to explain. Unbothered versus awareness is different, Right? So to me, when I think about unbothered, I mean, you go get your shot blocked, it's basketball. Like, you're going to get some physicality, you're going to get. You're going to get bumped, you may turn the ball over. Like these things are going to happen. It's a matter of is it going to impact the rest of your game? Is it going to impact your ability to play that shell defense that OKC played so well? Is it going to impact your ability to, you know, trail screens and and be on your guy on the defensive end? Is it going to impact your ability to go into you're shot the next time down? We felt like watching Shay Gildas Alexander in that Game one, he was off rhythm. He was bothered not just by Wemby's presence in the paint, but by the physicality of the spurs guards on the perimeter. This game, everyone is aware of Victor Wembanyama. Everyone is adjusting to Victor Wembanyama. We saw so many. I mean literally, Jamal Crawford brought up the word psych because I think it was Kayson Wallace who came into the.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, Kayson Wallace isn't psyching anybody. Well, Jason Wallace isn't even looking at the basket. I mean, let's just be honest here.

[Zena Keda]

That's another thing. But yeah, but in the sense of I think that that's what Shea Gildas Alexander gave in that yes, okay, I got my shot blocked or yes, okay, I'm adjusting and realizing in real time that there is an octopus out here. However, I'm not going to allow that to dissuade me from getting to my spots. And that's what he did incredibly well. Something I want to call out that I think is the biggest difference between these two teams. We talked about Isaiah Hartenstein and what he was doing, sending out the tape. Agreed. Absolutely agreed. The OKC Thunder had 40 rebounds in game one, 41 rebounds in game two. Remember, you know, Isaiah Har didn't play that much. So what? There wasn't like a big jump in the way that he was rebounding other than the fact that most of them were these offensive rebounds that he was getting. But what they he did really well. San Antonio had 61 rebounds in game one. They had 45 in this game. So now you're taking away those opportunities. You're taking away the one and done stops, you know that the San Antonio spurs has last game. And then you also look at the fact that the Thunder go up in their ability to pass the ball. The ball was hopping. They had nine more assists in game two than they did in game one. And so I think that's led by Shay and I think Isaiah led the effort on the boards and those things combined, boom, gets you a game to win. That said, I want to know, Dave, how do you feel about the fact that there is no deer in Fox the spurs are turning the ball over like crazy. They're averaging.

[Dave Dufour]

That's next on my list.

[Zena Keda]

Well, I want to ask you. And they're still in this game.

[Dave Dufour]

There you go. This is the, this is the little trick here with the Spurs. 43 turnovers in the two games and you, you know, you just don't often have a team. I mean, it was 21 to nine in turnovers in game two, and this game was still close with two minutes left and it should not have been. The spurs did shoot better than they did in game one, but like, Wimy just is going to keep you in the game. That. That's just where we're at. He's going to keep you in the game. And I didn't even. This wasn't a great Wimby game action.

[Zena Keda]

It wasn't.

[Dave Dufour]

It just wasn't. He. He wasn't as, as dominant as, as we saw in Game one. He didn't even have the defensive impact that we saw in Game one. I mean, there were a lot of, you know, psychs out there, but it just, it wasn't the same. But also his intensity was lower. I thought first half he really kind of coasted. And I wonder if that's lingering effects from game one. I mean, we saw Jordan McLaughlin get seven minutes in this game. We. Harrison Barnes played 12 minutes. They were, they were dusting dudes off the back of the bench, just trying to buy time. And that was before they lost ball handling. Right. And that was before they lost Dylan Harper. I think the Steph Castle turnover thing is a huge issue for them. 20 turnovers through. Through the first two games in this series. That's the first time anybody's ever done that in postseason history. 20 turnovers in consecutive games. That is just completely disregarding the value of the basketball. Regardless of the game that he had 25 points, eight assists, had that huge. I mean, he absolutely yammed on.

[Zena Keda]

Oh, that was amazing.

[Dave Dufour]

You're going to see the clip of that. That's one of the best dunks I've ever seen, you know. Yeah, but nine turnovers, it. It killed the spurs in, in a lot of times, and especially when they were coming back into the game. You know, the last couple of turnovers, they were just heartbreakers. And that's the difference between this team with Fox and with Dylan Harper and then with Stephan Castle, like Stephen Castle, I think needs to be that secondary or even tertiary guy because Harper and Fox just do a better job protecting the ball. Harper was having another excellent game. He had 12 points before he exited in the third quarter with the hamstring issue. But the, the turnover battle, the Thunder are winning it and it's almost single handedly Stefan Castle turning it over. And I just don't know like you've got to fix that for game three because as of right now, dear and Fox is going to be a game time decision for Game three. We haven't heard anything yet about Dylan Harper. Obviously I'm still in the arena, so we're recording right after the game. So we're waiting to hear about that. But huge concern if you're the spurs because now like you've lost, I mean potentially starter and the guy who is ostensibly your sixth man in Dylan Harper, I mean Kelton Johnson, he gave him some stuff at the end of the game, but he gave him nothing for most of the game. Just was a terrible performance by him. And I think that's probably the biggest storyline heading into Game 3 is the health of Dylan Harper, De' Aaron Fox, Jalen Williams and AJ Mitchell. Like what, what does the series look like if all four of those guys aren't playing in Game three? I think that in that case you probably tip your the favorite over to Oklahoma City because they have so much experience playing with guys in and out of the lineup. And I just frankly AJ Mitchell and Jalen Williams, they're not as crucial to what they're doing as de' Aaron Fox and Dylan Harper are to the Spurs.

[Zena Keda]

Agreed. You mentioned the fact that OKC had pretty much had a tryout all season long of what this would look like of playing through these injuries. And the turnover aspect is so big. I mean 21 turnovers, 27 points. Right. And it's the type of turnovers, it's these live ball turnovers. It's the I'm dribbling through traffic. And the OKC Thunder are just like gnats. They're everywhere. They're pesky, they just get all over you and then they're turning over deep in the paint, deep in the paint and it's just. Exactly. They're going the other way and they're running the floor and they're finding opportunities easy, even if it's not their primary read that they're getting it off of just breakout breakaway layups. They know how to operate in the half court. They know how to make something of the fact that you just gave them an extra opportunity. Uh, and that, that is absolutely a problem. I think it was Melo that said this pregame when Wemby is so excellent on the Defensive end, all the offensive end, and is doing everything that he's doing. He covers up so much. And he was the one that said. Melo said, if they had lost the game, game one, if the spurs had lost game one, the number one headline would have been 11 turnovers for Stephon Castle. And now that this game has been lost, we are looking at these little cracks in the art of what the spurs do. And that is Stephon Castle, as physical and as imposing as he is in the way that he plays, and you love it. That is a huge issue, and you don't have enough talented guards to get him off the ball. So I'm just. I am very curious what Mitch Johnson is going to do to address that. But it is the. It's the most glaring thing, and it wasn't just him. Wemby had some turnovers that you're just like, you're dribbling too high, you're dribbling too deep. Like, what are you doing? It's going to be interesting to see what happens there. But at least we've now seen Mark Dagnal do what we know he can do, which is adjust. He adjusted incredibly well in terms of, you know, putting Isaiah Hartenstein and giving him that one task. Be physical, make his job hard. In terms of Wemby. Now it's going to be Mitch Johnson's turn to figure out, what do we do? One, if we don't have Dylan Harper, who's the main person that puts pressure on the rim, what do we do to solve for that? And two, how can we clean up this offense if we don't have Dear, dear Fox.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. You mentioned Stefan Castle being so physical. I sometimes I wonder, is that working against him a little bit? Part of it is like, he's so good at drawing contact, and he's been pretty good at getting to the line. There's a little bit of foul baiting in there when he's losing the ball. You know, like, the handle's loose, but he's also, you know, he's dropping the ball into the zone, like, going to the basket. He's putting the ball low. And that's exactly what the Thunder want because they are digging down on that ball immediately, and that's where he's coughing it up. I almost feel like, you know, it's an issue where his style of play, it obviously was effective against the Thunder, like, he was scoring against the Thunder, but it's also like, you. You're rolling the dice there because of the way he puts the ball out. Heading to the basket and slows down. And these Thunder guards are so good at reaching in without fouling. They just really. They're just really good at poking the ball away. All right, we got to go to Chet, because to me, this is the guy, I think if you're the Thunder that you're, you're looking at and you're wondering, when is he going to have a moment? Like, when's he going to have a. A run, Right? Like, can he have a good quarter?

[Zena Keda]

He did.

[Dave Dufour]

I haven't. Okay, listen. Catching a lob here and there. Okay, that's great. And he had the dunk.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Zena Keda]

Ye.

[Dave Dufour]

But he is. He's been in. He's just not been very good on either end. I haven't. You haven't really felt him on defense. And for a guy that was top three in the defensive player of the year vote, it's disappointing. Regardless of what he does on the offensive end, he is not. I mean, the guy is supposed to be one of the best defenders in the league. You don't feel him around the rim. He obviously is not going to give you a lot on the perimeter. And I have to wonder if we don't start seeing those minutes get cut a little bit further, even in favor of Hardenstein, because Hardenstein, I mean, I just think when you look at his passing, when you look at, again, the rebounding, I mean, eight offensive rebounds against Victor Women.

[Zena Keda]

Yama, that's Mitchell Robinson stuff.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. Regardless of how he got there. Look, the refs weren't calling it, so you do it. You know, you credit him. He never stopped.

[Zena Keda]

I want to credit him. He. I want to credit Isaiah Hardenstein because he did play the entire second half with three fouls and then four fouls. He, I mean, he found a way to. It should have been Victor Royama attacking him way more, knowing that this is

[Dave Dufour]

where the lack of juice. Right. Like, I, I. You got to look. Look at what the spurs, the minutes that they played in Game one. Just the, the energy and effort that it took for them to dig it out because they're, they're not quite as deep as, as the Thunder. Right. I mean, the Thunder, they have this luxury. They start the second quarter in game one. They try out Aaron Wiggins today. They try out Isaiah Joe.

[Zena Keda]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, and, and the spurs are getting there, but they're not there yet. You know, Carter Bryant gave him good minutes, I thought, off the bench. But, like, he's not. Like, that's not Isaiah Joe. That might hit some shots for you. So Although Isaiah's Joe did not hit any shots. So we'll see who starts the second quarter in game three. But this is, this is the worry about, no, no Fox, no Harper, beyond just, hey, Castle is going to be our main guy. Who would you slide into the starting lineup at this point? I mean, I would guess it's Carter Bryant for the athleticism, maybe it's Keldon Johnson, but you start doing that, your bench is already shallow. The Luke Cornett minutes, Zena, I mean, he, they, he played the final two minutes of the third quarter and the spurs were making a run and they got outscored by six in the two minutes. I mean, it's just, that's. That's the Luke Cornett minutes in the series so far.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, I want to get to the Lou Cornett minutes, I think are absolutely hollow for them right now, and in a way that they, they need way more from him. But I feel very similarly about chet. You had 13 points tonight and 10 of them came when Victor Wamiyama was off the floor. Yep, that's a problem. Like, that should not be the case if you're someone that says you are comparable to Victor Wembanyama, that you are in his realm, not just height wise, but skill wise and ability wise and impact wise. Your impact should not be only felt when Wimby is not on the floor. And I think we, you know, we saw moments in the first half where we're like, okay, Chet might have been listening to all the podcasts in America and saying that you need to match up and handle Victor, right? Be physical with him on the switches, push your guard through and hold down the fort with Victor. And then it was Isaiah Hartenstein time pretty much for the rest of the game. Outside of those little blips in the first, first half, I'm really, I'm waiting for Chet to have that moment. And I feel like, I wonder if it has something to do with the types of shots that he's taking that he needs for his confidence. Because right now he. He went 0 of 2 from the three point line.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, he's too slow. He's too slow.

[Zena Keda]

Exactly. And I feel like that might give him confidence, though. Like, and he made 13 last game. And we know. I, I don't know how many dagger threes I've seen, especially out here in the bay against the warriors in general. Like, he. When he started the season, even thinking about how he started the season against Houston. Do you remember that game, the very first game of the season? Like, he took over in that first half. But it had to be certain shots that had to go down for him for him to get that boost of energy and that boost of confidence. And we just still haven't seen it yet. And there's going to be a game. We've got. We've gotten a Shay game, we've gotten the Caruso game. There is going to be a game where Chet is going to come out hot and. But I think it has to be. His offense has to click in order for his defense to fit. And we know that that's a problem, especially if you're in the top running for defensive player of the year. It should be there regardless. But ultimately that's. That's what I'm seeing. That's the eye test is he needs to be hot offensively before he is handling things on the defensive end.

[Dave Dufour]

I will say that if they don't have Jalen Williams and they don't have A.J. mitchell, you're. You're absolutely right. They. They need Chet to have a 25.10 rebound night with a few blocks big time. If they're missing those guys, he like

[Zena Keda]

no blocks in this game. Like, that's the three.

[Dave Dufour]

It's crazy. Well, the three is the, like the three is there for him, but the load up is so slow and the spurs are so good at xing out on shooters that he's never taking an uncontested three. One of those two misses got blocked by Victor Wenman Yama.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

And then he gets blocked at the basket going up for, for a dunk or a layup. And I mean there is the confidence. I will tell you this. You know who's bothered by Wemby? I'll take back. Shay's not bothered.

[Zena Keda]

He's the mvp.

[Dave Dufour]

He ain't bothered. I'll take it back. You're right. You're right. Chad bothered. Chad.

[Zena Keda]

Yes.

[Dave Dufour]

Wemby is the monster living under Chet's bed and he's asking his dad to come look under the bed right now. This is a massive. Not even a. It's an understatement. I think to the degree that Victor Wembanyama has dominated the, the, the head to head between the two, it just. It's nowhere close. And if the Thunder are going to be down, those guys, he's.

[Zena Keda]

He's coming. I believe in chat. I think it's coming, but I, I just hate that. I feel like it's only going to come if his offense clicks in first. And that is something that Mark Dagnal can also scheme. For finding more opportunities for him sooner because Chet Holmgren should be putting up way more field goal attempts than 10 in a game.

[HIMS/Mars Men Advertiser]

Right?

[Zena Keda]

Like that's, that's crazy. But seven players in double digits. So shout out to OKC for the distribution.

[Dave Dufour]

The series goes to San Antonio from here. Games 3 and 4. I'm going to go. I'm going to San Antonio.

[Zena Keda]

There you go.

[Dave Dufour]

We're, you know, we're going to be in the house for, for that. I'll be live for the Monday show from San Antonio. I gotta ask you, like, we've watched two games of this series. We watched every single game that these teams have played this season. Do we come back here for game five? Two. Two. You think the Thunder go in there and take one from San Antonio?

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, I do. I especially do because we don't know the health of those, you know, of Dear and Dylan Harper. And they don't need Jalen Williams and A.J. mitchell. You'd call that out perfectly. They don't need A.J. williams and Jalen.

[Dave Dufour]

They're nice to have. Don't get me wrong here.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, right, right, exactly.

[Dave Dufour]

I think they can live a little bit without.

[Zena Keda]

I think we all want them, but it's a matter of. They're just not as relevant to the program in the way that Darren and Dylan are for San Antonio. So I do think that OKC steals one on the road. And I also think that that's just the competition of this series. Right. Like people are going to be fatigued. Game four. Oh God, I'm scared for what the west is going to look like in the finals because this is insane. This battle is just like blow for blow right now in the series. So, yeah, I think it's between fatigue and potential injury. I think that, yeah, OKC will steal one.

[Dave Dufour]

There was a play where Wemby took a dive to get a ball and he dives into Shai's legs. And in that moment, I'm thinking to myself, man, the Knicks right now are looking at a title window potentially opening up if these guys don't get up off the floor. That's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's where we're at.

[Dave Dufour]

Listen, guys, I like this has been. This is two of the best basketball games I've maybe ever watched.

[Jared Weiss]

You get to.

[Dave Dufour]

You get to see the micro adjustments between these two coaching staffs. It's. It's the. Some of the best coaching in the NBA right now. I think what the Thunder have been able to do obviously over the course of the last few years, I mean, I admit, are the list of people who are just over the moon about the Thunder coaching staff. Like they're very smart and thoughtful but got to credit the spurs too, because they figured out ways, I think to bother the Thunder in ways that other teams don't. And this is beyond just Wemby. I think they've just found ways to bother team to bother the Thunder, especially in ways that the rest of the league is probably going to learn from. That being said, this Thunder team, they, they evolved fast. And I like I was ready to say, hey, it's, it's time for the spurs to be the next team that we claim as a dynasty. Like already, you just can't count this Thunder team down. I still, this is going to be a long series. I hope it goes seven just to see what it's like. But if this series goes seven, Xena, you're onto something there because the Knicks, the knicks, after that 22 point comeback, kind of feeling like the Knicks might get a break before the finals if they make it.

[Zena Keda]

So I agree. Yeah, I agree. I, I, I, I like the way you laid out though, that the Knicks are watching this right now and they're like, thank you spurs and Thunder for doing our dirty work for us. Yeah, this is gonna, I mean, I don't know, we'll see what happens, but great games for you to be at.

[Dave Dufour]

It's a lot of fun. All right guys, stick around. After the break, I'm gonna be courtside with Andrew Schlecht and Jared Weiss for more Thunder Spurs Game two.

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[Jared Weiss]

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[Jared Weiss]

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[Dave Dufour]

All right, we're back. Post Game Game 2. Jared Weiss, Andrew Schlecht. No need for introductions. Let's start with the the post game fallout from from this game. You guys were both in the locker room. Andrew, I'll start with you. You were in the winners side. What was the the biggest thing that came out after the game?

[Jared Weiss]

Obviously the biggest two things to come away from this game. Obviously Thunder win. They made some Adjustments. But J Dub went out of this game, right? Dylan Harper went out of this game. I think those are probably, like, the two biggest things that will affect this series moving forward. On the court, though, the biggest change was Isaiah Hartenstein, right. Played in this game, and he played a significant role. A role that Hart, after the game, he didn't say that Mark apologized to him. But as close as you can get to apologizing to somebody for playing them only 12 minutes in game one, and then completely flipping their role in game two, where you walked away from game one thinking, oh, the Thunder don't think they can play Hartenstein when Wemby's on the court.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Jared Weiss]

To. Oh, they think that they should maybe only play when he's on the court.

[Dave Dufour]

That was my takeaway. It got to match the minutes. Yeah, his physicality was such. It was missing in game one way. And we can chalk some of this up to Wemby maybe being fatigued from game one. But sure, I'm going to give the credit to Hartenstein. He was just relentless on the glass. He had those eight offensive rebounds, but every single time he was near Wemby, he was touching him somehow, whether he was grabbing, whether he was sticking an elbow in him. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly the. The secret with Wemby.

[HIMS/Mars Men Advertiser]

I mean, you.

[Dave Dufour]

You look, you've been watching Wemby all year. The teams that have done best again against him are the most physical. We watched the Timberwolves have a lot of success that way. I think Hartenstein's game from tonight would be one that, you know, you're going to put into your game tape and go back to look at when you're trying to figure out how to deal with Wemby. What did you think about Hartenstein's effect on game two?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, I mean, the big thing was his box out technique on the off, I guess, on both ends, really. He just was able to move Wembanyama away from the kind of target zone. So, you know, every. Every good rebounder, when they see the angle and the trajectory of the shot, they know where the spot is. Like, they know the spot that they're fighting over. And Zay just is. I mean, Zay's built for it, right? Like, he's huge and has a low center of gravity so he can get, like, really up and solid on Wemby and, like, high enough on Wemby's body that he can prevent Wemby from, like, really reaching over. And you saw there were so many plays where Wemby, like, Tried to reach over, but he just couldn't get there. And so, I mean, that's how they won the game. Like this is a close game. It was a close game. And I do think that the spurs point guard, like two of their point guards going out, like that's why they couldn't compete with them. But like they were close enough that if those, if Zay didn't win the game on the glass, there's a good chance the spurs could have pulled that out because they were getting those shots at the very ends.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. In spite of 21 turnovers. I mean, I think that is, to me that was an eye opening thing, is that the spurs are turning it over like crazy and they're still in the game late. They shot much better than in game one. Right. But some of that is that I just think like these guys just never stop coming. I mean like Castle has 20 turnovers through the first two games of the series. And I think a lot of people would argue that he's been very important in spite of those.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He's been really good. Yeah, right.

[Dave Dufour]

In spite of the 20 turnovers.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah. And it's on both ends that he's been good. Obviously we had the dunk of the century.

[Dave Dufour]

Holy. Tonight on. On Hardenstein, by the way.

[Jared Weiss]

On Hardenstein.

[Dave Dufour]

Great game. That one's going on a poster.

[Jared Weiss]

Unbelievable. And I will say Castle's ability to guard aggressively without fouling is maybe just as impressive as that dunk was. There were some sequences where you're just watching him defend and you're like, I don't know how he's doing that without fouling. That is, it is one of the most impressive things happening in the league right now, period. His ability to do that, two guys like Shay, who's literally the two time MVP and like could easily be like the, the best. I mean, some people think of him as the best player in the world.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Jared Weiss]

And he defends him about as well as anybody and as aggressively without fouling, which I think is very impressive.

[Dave Dufour]

Has that one play right here just behind us where, where Shay goes down, he gets called for a foul. The next possession, he's guarding A.J. mitchell the exact same way. Yeah, A.J. mitchell goes down and I'm thinking, oh, they're gonna get him again. No, no. And you look back, you watch that tape and I mean, look, he, he's able to be a little handsy, but he keeps his hips out. He's got perfect form. His feet start, they keep moving and he's strong. So these guys can't just blow past him.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Well, I told Steph after the game, the thing that was really impressive was that usually when Shay can get his update game going, players screw up. It's not that they hit him with their hands, it's that they bring their feet forward to get close. And then Shay sees the feet coming and then he gets into the hip and that's where he gets the big contact. And somehow Steph was able to keep his feet back so that he wasn't getting those hip swing fouls. And I mean, he's been great. He's just. He's over. Not overloaded. But there's just. There's too much responsibility for Steph at this point of his career to run the entire offense every possession and guard the best player. And guard the best guard the best

[Jared Weiss]

player and be the primary guy. Yeah, it is.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He was sped up and he said it when I asked him about it after the game, he was like, I was rushing too early. Our. Our screeners weren't getting set. I was then. And then the thing with Steph and this is the big thing he needs to work on and something that Fox has been so valuable for and Harper's really good at is that Steph, once he gets downhill, he tends to stay downhill his whole game is that he picks up his dribble and he stretches out a step through and he's able to slow down so much that people they. That clearance ends up. And he's good at staying on balance. But against his Thunder defense, they've got it timed. Yeah, they've got it timed. And you just saw so many weak side pickoffs. They were easy ones. Pickoffs that both teams are doing in game one. Those are really hard ones tonight. It was like, it's kind of easy. They weren't really trying that hard. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

I thought the spurs trying to get the hammer action going. You know those. Those passes to the corner.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That last. That last one, it was so cute, but it was so, so poorly executed.

[Dave Dufour]

It was tough. And again. But credit the Thunder defense. Hartenstein as well. Hartenstein was making those passing lanes non existent.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

And part of that was it was about him free. He was pre boxing out on Wemby expecting a shot often. Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He was kind of boxing out Wemby the entire possession. That's how you deal with Wemby is you just tie him up the whole time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I will say one of the bigger

[Jared Weiss]

things too was just the Thunder bench. The Thunder bench scoring was on point tonight.

[Dave Dufour]

Alex Caruso been the Second best player for the Thunder in the series so far.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah. And at times he looks like the guy leading them in so many ways. Like, he's leading them with the way he plays aggressively. I asked him about this. I was like, how are you imparting, like, your aggression to your teammates? Because he had this like, step back midi on Wimby that was just like saying how. Who do you think you are almost? And it like, shades who he thinks he is. That was unbelievable.

[HIMS/Mars Men Advertiser]

And he said he.

[Jared Weiss]

All of his, like, aggression is like, subconscious now. Like, it. It just gets turned on and he's just like, ready. And he said, these guys are still so young and have not been through as many playoff series as me, and I still have to remind them and, like, help, you know, get them into the correct mindset. Which is not something you think about when you think about the Thunder because they won the championship. They've been through the playoffs a couple times. But he's like, yeah, these guys are still young and I'm still having to kind of bring them along a little bit, which I thought was a good reminder for everybody that, like, yeah, not only are the spurs very young and they're ahead of schedule, but the Thunder are in some ways still ahead of schedule too.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

They just happen to have an mvp, which is. That's the thing about the spurs right now. Wemby is an MVP level player and the whole team gets it raised. Right. Alex Caruso is funny because the difference between Alex Caruso and Casen Wallace, when they see Wemby Case and Wallace is not looking at the basket. Never gonna at all, never ever gonna even psych. He is just not looking.

[HIMS/Mars Men Advertiser]

Nope.

[Dave Dufour]

And meanwhile, Alex Caruso is just reckless, abandoned a little bit of Leroy Jenk. He's like, I'm gonna.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Damn it, Alex.

[Dave Dufour]

I'm getting this shot up. You know what I mean? Like, and I mean it just. He's unafraid. Is there anything like the spurs can do about this? I mean, it's just like, do you just hope Alex Caruso cools off? Which is a crazy thing to say.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. I mean, he's. He's goated right now. He's playing with incredible confidence. And you credit to Kayson Wallace, he hit his open threes. Their game plan in the first half was Victor was gonna. Their rotations were going to be set up so that Victor was going to be just stepping in and out of the paint and Kayson was going to be the last guy in the chain that they would let him the shot. And he did it. Caruso has been doing it over and over and he hasn't cooled off. He will cool off at some point, but then he'll heat back up because he's goaded. The spurs right now are doing a lot of compromises where they're high pressuring Shea or they're sending really early nail help to Shay. And so they're, they're giving up open threes and the Thunder haven't killed them with that yet. But the Thunder improved in this game, at least what they're shooting and the wealth spread a little bit more. Like last game, Caruso carried all of it and he had an all time great shooting night. Now it's starting to spread out. Other guys are getting confident and I mean, if the spurs don't get, if the spurs are going to miss Harper and Fox, like, I don't see how they win the series. They get Fox back, they could go back to even. Especially with. We'll see what happens to J Dub.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, to your point about that, I want to credit Shea with that. The ball movement from Shea, nine assists in the game. And a lot of that was much different than game one. And I, I still think, and I said this in the first part of the show, Wimby is in everyone's head. He's going to be like, it's just undeniable. You can't say, oh, they've got him figured out because you just can't. But the adjustment was he continued to attack, kept his man on his hip and he actually went to Wemby.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

And then that kick to the corner is wide open. Then that second pass. I mean, as good as the spurs are at X outs, they are so good at getting a hand up. I mean, think about Chet getting his three blocked, right? Like, this is the sort of stuff that they're great at. But it didn't matter when Wemby was sunken into the paint. Shay gets into his body a little bit, makes the pass to the corner. It's a wide open look.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Because they, if there's more late rotations for the spurs, that means more high speed sprint closeouts. And that's where you wear a team down.

[Zena Keda]

Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And at least you know Shay, one of his great powers is he's a metronome who is going to be running at the same pace the entire game and he is not going to run out of gas and he's going to keep going at the same tempo and he'll, he'll mix up his nuances. And so the spurs didn't have that. And I mean, the big thing was that the spurs couldn't get out and transition in this game consistently. And the really where the spurs go on their huge runs where Wemby dominates is Wemby picks up 10 points a game on just like early seals early advantages, where it's just like there's nothing they can do at that point. He's already in the paint. He's got two feet and he's got the leverage, and he didn't really get that many of those.

[Dave Dufour]

He wasn't running as hard. I. I'll just say, like, by the eye test, and I haven't. We haven't seen tracking data yet, but first half, it felt like he was coasting, cruising. Maybe this was part of the game plan. Hey, let's. Let's try to save it. Keep it. Keep it close.

[Jared Weiss]

Well, also, the Thunder are uber focused on doing their work early with Wimy. Like, that is, like, I don't know how far up the list it is, but it's really high on the list of like, how, like, what they need to focus on with him is doing the work early, pushing him as far away from the basket as possible and

[Dave Dufour]

beating him down the court. That was the other thing. He often sprints down and can beat the other big, and he just wasn't able to do it. He didn't have the gas.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He had that once in crunch time. He did save it for crunch time, which was part of the message. And the problem was Zay kept getting the rebound. So he had one play with. I think it's two minutes left where you can see he dead sprinted. He got into the low post on Zay, and then he beat him.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, they had that one possession late where Casen Wallace, I think, got an offensive rebound. And then Hartenstein follows it up and it leads to a case in Wallace 3. I think if I'm remembering correctly, that was just a backbreaking series of offensive rebounds, and you just don't normally see the spurs give those up.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah, it's why Hartenstein is so important, because he was everything they were missing from game one. They got murdered on the boards in game one. And I feel like, what are they going to do? Because they don't think they can play hard. But that. That obviously, like, completely flipped. And the fact that they were involving Wemby whenever they were on the offensive end instead of just avoiding him, it just felt like game one. For 75% of the game, they were just avoiding him. Yeah, like, they'd see him, and they were like, nope, we got to stay away from him. We can't let him block our shot in this game. Like you said, they were trying to get into his body. And that also exhausts him, too. Like, they were finding, like, other ways to involve him, because that's. That's one tactic that, you know, people use all the time is like, how do we make Victor when many of tired? Like that is. That is one of the ways that you can, like, beat the spurs is like, how do we make him tired?

[Dave Dufour]

It's.

[Jared Weiss]

Well, you involve him as much as possible, and the Thunder just did a much better job of that tonight.

[Dave Dufour]

So let's talk about Chet. It's not been good through the first two games. Yeah.

[Jared Weiss]

Which has not been the most surprising thing in the world, if we look at the track record.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

How does he get himself involved in the series?

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah, it's. It's a good question. I mean, the spurs have done a really good job of closeouts. You would hope that he could take more threes. I think that's part of what he is as a weapon now. It takes him a while to load up, which the spurs know, and they are within arm's reach of him whenever he is setting up on the perimeter, so that's tough. He did have a dunk in this game, which was nice. Like, he was a little bit more aggressive, but, yeah, I don't. I don't know that there's going to be huge expectation for Chat to be involved more than just, like, what he was defensively. And even Mark opted to pull him from the game at the end, which I think is the right thing to do. And the Thunder keeps saying the right things. Like, when you're in the playoffs like this, you have to, like, check your ego at the door. Like, you should not have an ego here. And I don't. I don't think that Chet has a problem with the way he's been played. I think he needs to continue to ramp up his own aggression.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right.

[Jared Weiss]

I think when we talk about the young guys that, like, Alex Cruz was talking about, I think Chet is one of those guys because he does not have, like, that same level of intensity.

[Dave Dufour]

Where's the rim protection?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Like, where's that motor that we talk about with Chad all the time? I mean, he's so his activity where not just the first attempt at a block, the second one, and also tap out rebounds. Like, it's just not there.

[Jared Weiss]

It's there. And, like, we saw it in smaller spurts. Tonight more than in Game one, but still not anywhere near where he was against LA or against Phoenix. And I. And I do think that there's some mind games that exist between he and Victor. I don't. I. I think it's hard to deny that just with the matchup that we've seen so far. And it'll be really interesting to see how that evolves, because I do think Chet's a really good competitor. We just haven't seen it yet.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, he just looks scared to fail to me right now. That's the whole thing with Wemby, is you just have to accept he's going to embarrass you. Right. And the thing with Chet, it didn't really feel like it was about the Wemby thing. Like, there was that play where he had the ball in his hands and the shot clock was winding down. He was 12ft from the hoop with champagne in front of him, and he didn't look like he knew what to do. Like, just spin and dunk. Like, you have to just get super aggressive and just force guys to get in front of you. And I'm, like, waiting to see. I know his ball handling is not great, but it's good enough that if he's going through a 3, 4 like that, who is not, like, down on the ground and can swipe the ball out from your dribble, you should be beasting on him. You should be throwing your body into him and trying to step through him and use your length to just reach out to the hoop. You should be screaming and flopping and, like, everything that look.

[Jared Weiss]

Flop.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like, come on, like, flop Shay. Like, Shay and Wemby are doing it. And there's.

[Dave Dufour]

There's a reason J Will. Jalen Williams was out there, and part of that is the physicality. But also he's willing to flop. I mean, you know, he gets that he falls down when Wimby is. Is coming down the lane. I mean, it's stuff like that. At least he's. There's activity. I don't think it's good activity, just

[Andrew Schlecht]

for the record, but all activity is good activity. I don't know about that.

[Jared Weiss]

It's just, like, a good reminder, too, that, like, a lot of these guys on both sides are just, like, not finished products. We talk about, like, Steph Castle's turnovers. We talk about Chet's, like, lack of aggression. It's like, these guys are still, like, figuring out how to be, like, the best versions of themselves in the playoffs. And because these are going to the Finals because these are the two best teams in the league. It's hard, it's hard for us to wrap our brains around that because if, if these teams stay together and they're able to stay healthy for like the next five years, it's hard to imagine like what both teams could look like.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Jared Weiss]

In five years time. Because like these, these teams are not like a finished product by any stretch of the imagination. And Chet and Steph are like two of the reasons why it's funny because

[Andrew Schlecht]

people have been talking about these games, like their all time great games, shit like that. Yeah, I haven't quite felt that way. I mean, game one was an all time game one. Crazy. The tension of everything, it was incredible. Like Wemby's playmaking was insane. But the overall system execution has not been that great compared to when we were watching like Cleveland versus Warriors, like 10 years ago, which. That was the best basketball I've ever seen in my life. Like, because there's so few guys in their prime. You're totally right. Who's in their prime in the series? Shay, Fox, Hartenstein? Who wants San Antonio's in their prime? It's a key contributor. Like the Cell's kind of getting there at this point.

[Jared Weiss]

I was gonna say.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, but like there's, there's. There's only like four or five guys that are contributors in the series that are in their prime. And then Mitch Johnson is a second year coach. And how long has Mark been in charge? Like four years now?

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah, about four years.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So these are all babies, Right. Like, we're just watching a bunch of toddlers soar through the sky in their. In amazing toddlers. But like this. The quality of this rivalry will get better over time. Assuming anybody is still saying, I don't

[Dave Dufour]

know though, because, okay, you said that the offenses haven't looked great. Right. It's because the defenses have been so good.

[Jared Weiss]

The defense.

[Andrew Schlecht]

This is the defense is a young man's game.

[Dave Dufour]

I. Exactly. Well, this is the thing. You watch this series and then you go and flip on Cavs Nicks, you know, tonight. Right. And it feels like a different sport. And the reason is because the Knicks and Cavs are old. They're NBA old. If you're 30, you're old. The Nuggets were too old for the playoffs. We saw that. And this, these two teams are young. This is the NBA now. You got to have 10 to 12 guys who are 25 years old that can run 94ft for 48 minutes without getting tired and without breaking down. And we were watching the young guys start to break down now at this point in the playoffs. So that's really the difference. The defense, this is high level execution on defense and high level game planning from two of the best coaching staffs in the league. For as young as they are, they are really good at it.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It is amazing, the NBA fan experience right now that you go from watching the two best teams in the league playing the most incredible defense to watching James Harden play defense. Like it's kind of, it's kind of nauseating to be honest with you. I mean, I, I left, I was working all night during game one of the Knicks Cavs and with like six minutes left in the game, I was like, all right, this game's over. I'm going to go downstairs, leave my hotel room, go get dinner. By the time I sat down in front of the tv, from just taking the elevator from my room to getting seated at the steakhouse, it was like a four point game. And I'm like. And I had no idea what happened. I just went, james Harden. James Harden.

[Jared Weiss]

That was a nice dinner flex. My son went to bed and woke up the next morning, told my younger son, you know, was like, yeah. He's like, well, the Cavs won. I was like, no they did not. No, they did not. Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. It is quite different. I also want to shout out before we go, Casey Wallace, I thought had an amazing great game. I thought he was his. The deflections were on point. I think he had four steals. He hit his open threes. I thought he played a really great game. He was one of the different. Also Jared McCain Sixers fans, listen, Jeremy

[Dave Dufour]

can sold well on Jared McCain.

[Jared Weiss]

Jerick McCain was awesome. Jeremy McCain was, was really good. Even on the rebounds like that. That was like his just competitiveness really shined tonight.

[Dave Dufour]

Look, he's not like by any means a good defender, but he is a high effort defender on this team. His screen navigation looks better than it did in Philly and some of that I, I'm just going to credit the coaching staff and maybe it's health. Right. But I think his screen also, he for a small guy, he doesn't get pushed around.

[Jared Weiss]

No.

[Dave Dufour]

Which is, is. I think it's too big for them.

[HIMS/Mars Men Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He's also way smaller than I realized. I was watching that. I'm like, I thought he was like six four. He looks like he's like six one.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But that three he hit coming over the screen, that rattled in. I mean that was huge difference between

[Dave Dufour]

last year's Thunder team and this year's Thunder team. We talked about A.J. mitchell all year. It's really Jared McCain.

[Jared Weiss]

McCain. McCain is.

[Dave Dufour]

It's that lights out movement shooter that can come off the bench. They're gonna kill you if you drop. If you go into a traditional zone, they're gonna bust it up.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

They just have guys that can like they've solved so many of the problems that they used to have and now the, the problem that they have to solve is the Wemby problem. What does it look like? All right, let's look ahead to Game 3. Okay. The spurs, like we're, let's. I don't know, we can't make any assumptions about health here.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Hopefully everyone's gonna play. How do the spurs come out in game three to make it different than game two? I just, I don't hit the play button button.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I don't assume everyone's gonna play. You know with Harper I'm, I'm. Who knows. I saw him limping in the locker room afterwards. Too early to know there Fox. Like I'm confused about why he's continuing to have to sit and we're not getting any clear explanation. Obviously it's a Spurs wouldn't expect it. But he. Mitch Johnson basically said he's going to be a game time decision here on out. Yeah.

[Jared Weiss]

So said for the rest of the series.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. So probably the rest of the season. Even if they advance, who knows. So. So like I mean they need, they need two of those guys. Yeah.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They can't win with just one of those guys. I just don't see it. Especially because we need to give a bigger shout out to Kayson Wallace. The way that he pressures at half court is incredible.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

And that, that was probably one of like the four biggest elements of why they was the way that he just would get Steph Castle over the half court line and then just trap him against it. And I mean they literally had a turnover. He just fell back literally right here behind us.

[Dave Dufour]

These guys are a little bit too cavalier about the way that they handle up near the, the backcourt line in my opinion anyway. But there's no team in the league that uses the side. This is college basketball style defense where they're using the sidelines to trap especially at half court. I mean it's, it's.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Coach Cal must have been thrilled watching that.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

We met.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We ran the Coach California game for some reason. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Before the game he was hanging out. It came to seem Shay. Okay. So how did the Thunder steal One in San Antonio.

[Jared Weiss]

I mean, a lot of it's going to be about Shay Gil, just Alexander, like he's got to be the best player on the floor. And then I think that they've figured out a couple things and now this will be a chess match. Like, the Thunder made their adjustments. I think the spurs will make their adjustments in game three. It'll be fascinating to see.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Jared Weiss]

And it's gonna. It's gonna be about three point shooting for the Thunder still. And it's gonna be about. Can Shea continue to, like, ramp up his execution?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yep. And I didn't really answer the question. My apologies. I just got so excited by Casey Wallace's defense and just not thinking about James Harden's defense. It's one Wemby like, Wemby took accountability after this one.

[Dave Dufour]

He need.

[Andrew Schlecht]

They need to get him into better positions that he can just initiate himself.

[Jared Weiss]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So they're going to have to find a way to get him into the low post. That's the hard part for them. Can they run actions where he can emerge from underneath, some sort of action, and boom, they call the fist action usually for this. Just get him into the low post, give him that catch where he has enough room that he can either turn baseline and go to the rim or he can pass over the top to the weak side elbow. When he can do that and they can play slow that way, it eases the burden on their point guards offensively and allows him to play in a way where he's not dribbling into like those tight little gaps that Wallace has. He's turning it over. So that's the first part. And then I think the second part is, can their point of attack defense be a little bit better? Like, the spurs have been a great point of attack defense team all year. Tonight it was. I mean, Castle was really great, but, you know, Harper is a huge part of it. And once he went down, it wasn't the same. And we just saw. We saw Shay in the first quarter. He got to where he wanted. They were letting him kind of bounce to his weird spots. Right. Like, Shay's whole thing is he. He works east to west till he gets to a weird spot at 10ft where you're not expecting him to shoot it. And he shoots it. I don't know why you're not expecting it. I know he's going to shoot it and I'm not an NBA player, so I know that you. I know that they know he's going to shoot it, so they need to just be I think much more attuned to we can't let him waltz east west through the paint. We have to shove him off of that. We have to force him into resets over and over and over and make him wear down, which he won't. But you have to try at least. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

All right, well, that's going to do it from OKC. We'll be back tomorrow. Z9s will have Cavs nicks for Xena Keda Jared Weiss Andrew Schlect I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe or Follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed it, drop a like leave a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us.

[Pablo Torre]

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