Esperahenny (2:39)

Yeah, I know. It's been a minute, huh?

Dave DeFore (2:42)

Yeah. I was excited to see you guys, though. It's been a couple days. You know, we were hanging out all last week, had a great time at the NBA Cup. You know, I was worried about the Knicks and Spurs and us having NBA cup hangovers, but, man, this was a really good weekend of basket ball, including. All right, maybe the Thunder are hungover from Vegas. Guys, look, not to hit the panic button, but they've dropped two of their last three. They're struggling a little bit, guys. Okay, let's be real here.

Esperahenny (3:14)

Yeah.

Zena Cata (3:14)

I was about to say, if you're gonna go with the fraud stuff, that's crazy.

Dave DeFore (3:17)

Yeah, I mean, listen, they're not frauds.

Esperahenny (3:19)

But there definitely is a little bit of fatigue maybe major that we're seeing from the NBA cup, but we'll see.

Dave DeFore (3:25)

I would say, look, they lose a game against the Timberwolves second night of a back to back, and the Wolves have been really good lately. And I think that, you know, being full strength like they have been. Anthony Edwards just hit so many big shots and made huge plays actually on both ends. There was that sequence where he gets the block, gets the big step back three, and then picks Shea Gilders Alexander's dribble and ends the game. That's how you close the door on a team like okc. So it was a huge win for, for the Wolves. I, I don't want to really just focus on the Thunder losing, but I, I will say it. It. They have looked like, you know, hey, teams are able to meet their level of competition, which we hadn't quite seen all season. And it does help.

Esperahenny (4:10)

We're.

Dave DeFore (4:10)

We're watching them play, maybe better competition. You know, the spurs, we. We feel like they're pretty good. They're now third in the west, which is interesting in its own right. And obviously this, this Timberwolves team has been really good and seen playoff success. So, you know, this isn't like a shocking turn of events.

Zena Cata (4:27)

Well, as long as you catch the Thunder on the second night of a back to back, you should be good.

Esperahenny (4:32)

You should be in good position as long as you're Minnesota. I mean, even though Minnesota, yes, they got the win recently, let's not forget that when they matched up with them back on, what, November 26th, they were pretty well matched as well. That was an incredibly tight game. And, and so there's something to it in terms of OkC's. Particular matchup with Minnesota. But yeah, the back, the back end of the back to back is always a time you can catch a team with slacking. And most teams outside of the Thunder sometimes look at it as a scheduled loss. Like, it's cool if we drop that one. It makes sense. But I'm not, I'm not looking too much into the, the fraud alert. Dave.

Dave DeFore (5:09)

Yeah, it's kind of funny because I know Aaron Wiggins was out and I know that that's going to be a point that comes up and you know, okay, but this was, the Thunder are healthy now and they lost. And so I do think, you know, look, we're going to watch this and we're going to watch every Thunder game because this is the sort of competition that we see every night. But this is a, a reminder that they're not a perfect team. You can beat them.

Zena Cata (5:32)

Yeah, absolutely. Also, like, I don't think they're, you know, you did say they're healthy now or they're healthier. I don't think Jalen Williams is particularly healthy yet. And you could see when it comes to him getting in rhythm offensively, like you look his box score numbers, they look fine. But for the most part he's struggling to create separation. I think the three point shot has, has been kind of one of those things where you're like, okay, the hand is clearly messing with him. They need him to be back to what he was last year, which is an all NBA level player. They're sure fire second best player on offense. Otherwise I think that the ceiling of this team, you talk about 73 wins and 74 wins, it changes if he's not that guy this year for them.

Esperahenny (6:15)

You know, and I'm not going to pile on the excuses for the Thunder. But yes, even with Aaron Wiggins out like Isaiah Joe's only come back for two games after also sitting out. And Isaiah Joe was a boost off the bench before he had gone out. He was someone that would be able to come in, get some really quick buckets offensively doesn't provide that same two way versatility that I think Aaron Wiggins was being counted upon. But still like, you know, they're, they also are doing what everyone else is doing in the NBA, dealing with injuries, dealing with folks coming in, coming out and having to find the rhythm again.

Dave DeFore (6:48)

Yeah. And I think what one thing to keep in mind is that Chet had clearly been the number two guy.

Zena Cata (6:54)

Absolutely.

Dave DeFore (6:55)

And he's going to have to find his way now with Jaylen out there who's also like you, like you mentioned, as trying to figure out himself how he works around this, this wrist thing that's clearly bothering him. So maybe we're seeing a little bit of that as well.

Zena Cata (7:08)

Yeah, look, I'll just say also big testament to the Timberwolves, who that was their third win against a team above.500. Like, they have not beat good teams this year. This winning against OKC in that matter where it's a clutch game and you're actually working against them in the fourth quarter, that's huge. It's been a great season for Ant, as you mentioned, a good season for Julius Randall. They do have, even though their record is not good against above.500 teams, they do have this monster slayer element to them where they can rise up against these good teams. We've seen it in the past against Denver. I think they have that similar quality against okc and that's what makes them such a tough out.

Dave DeFore (7:50)

Yeah. Speaking of tough guys. Rockets, Nuggets. This is physical basketball. We got two pretty good games. We caught the first one of these in Vegas. We watched it together. And one of the few places that you can just walk in and watch sports in Vegas, it's incredibly hard to just, hey, sports are on. Cool. I can sit here and have a beer. And we, we watched the end of that game and we watched the Nuggets come back and just hit big shot and big free throws and win in overtime. And then, you know, IME Udoka, I think set the table for the rematch that happened on Saturday. And because the physicality just, it wasn't quite the same. It still was there, especially when we got a little bit later in the game. But.

Zena Cata (8:35)

Well, it was there for Bruce Brown and Kevin Durant.

Dave DeFore (8:37)

Yes, it was, but definitely that like Jokic with early foul trouble, it felt a little bit different and it definitely, I think, messed with the Nuggets quite a bit, who have been playing pretty good defense in spite of missing their two best defenders from the starting lineup, Christian Brown and Aaron Gordon, as late. I mean, I think Jamal Murray is a guy that we should point out as really being improved defensively, especially the last couple weeks or so. You know, Nikola Jokic is always. It's an adventure. I mean, he, he makes plays for sure when you need him to, but, you know, the average possession is not great. This, this game on Saturday, the way that, that the Rockets handled the Nuggets, it was a, it was a different game than the other night. Yeah, I, I was impressed big time. Kevin Durant obviously is Going to hit big shots. But I thought Reed shepherd and Amen Thompson down the stretch of that game really won it for him.

Zena Cata (9:32)

Reed shepherd scored 13 straight points. At one point in that game, he was just unstoppable. Like they were running actions for him that you see the warriors run for Steph Curry off of movement, or sometimes you see the Nuggets funny enough run it for Jamal Murray where he's like these pitch actions and they're throwing it to him and he's re screens and he's just running around everywhere. Reed shepherd is that level of score when he gets it going. I was looking at this and I'm like, man, like, how much better could he be offensively? Because it just felt like he couldn't miss. And if that's the version of Reed shepherd they get moving forward in the season, I think they're ceiling change.

Dave DeFore (10:09)

Yeah, if he doesn't miss a shot.

Zena Cata (10:10)

Yeah, if he's. If he's 28 points per game, Reed shepherd, yeah, it's a different story.

Esperahenny (10:15)

And that's what's so exciting about Reed shepherd is this is the guy that we'd expected last year. This is the guy that everyone was like, how is Reed shepherd sitting at the end of the bench? He's supposed to be your point guard. You're the one right behind Fred Van Vliet. And what's interesting though, now he has the opportunity to play. He's, I mean, 25 minutes a game now versus maybe five last year. I don't even know what he averaged last year, but was non existent in comparison. But he's coming in and he's not necessarily being the traditional point guard that you would think, okay, Fred Van Vliet's out. Will put in insert Reed Shepherd. And I'm so happy that you mentioned Stephen Curry because it's the same thing where Stephen is a point guard. I put quotes around that. But he moves off ball. He moves like he would be your two guard. And that's what you're seeing shepherd in these actions off ball, utilizing the gravity of Kevin Durant of an outbreak and goon like what they do in order to find pockets out on the floor. And it's just, it's so exciting to find, to see him amongst a team of giants, of these athletic giants, find his little niche. And as you mentioned, s just how good of a score he is, just how efficient. I mean, six of nine from three, six of nine from three that everyone keeps talking about the fact that the Rockets are number one in three point percentage I believe in the NBA right now, or at least top three, they fluctuate up and down, but still, everyone's been attributing that to Kevin Durant coming onto this team, huh? Reed shepherd has, you know, has claim to that as well with just how well he's shooting the ball.

Dave DeFore (11:52)

Well, him shooting and being confident, just being on the court actually changes the game for them completely. Like this was the thing that they were missing. This is how this makes Amend Thompson work as an attack guy with the ball in his hands. Obviously Kevin Durant and Shingoon benefit. It also lets you play Stephen Adams and Shingoon together even more because you've got more shooting. And by the way, Stephen Adams, another guy who's a great passer, great screener, who can operate. You can operate with Reed shepherd off the ball from. I mean they really do have a lot cooking. I mean I could see them maybe being a team that adds a guy or two just, you know, coming off the bench. But I think that those five guys, you know, and, and let's not Forget Jabari Smith Jr. Who also was excellent in the game the other night.

Esperahenny (12:36)

Remember when Aaron, remember when Aaron holiday was their three point threat? Maybe Jabari Smith Jr. When he was on. But like Aaron Holiday coming off the bench was like all right, 44% like that's where we can go to. And it now you've got R.E. shepherd 44% from 3, Kevin Durant 44%, Joshua Kogi in the corner. I'm like between him and og, like who are better at the corner threes. It's really cool, you know, it's crazy.

Zena Cata (13:05)

I feel like they should probably still try to shoot more threes because while you said they are number one or near the top of the league in perception percentage, they are dead last in attempts. They don't take any. And so that's part of like we need Reed shepherd because he provides something no one else on this team can provide as a pull up shooter, catch and shoot guy. That to your point, Dave? Maybe that's something they address at the deadline. Find a marksman shooter, you know well.

Dave DeFore (13:30)

And it's amazing that there's that their three point attempt rate so low for a team that offensive rebounds so successfully because usually that kick out three, you know, that's what you get off that. I do want to mention one wrinkle, okay to, to pay attention to for the Denver Nuggets. We've seen a bunch of teams doing this, okay? But the Jonas Valencianus, Nicola Jokic double big lineup it happened in this game and they actually ran it against when the Rockets were running a smaller lineup. I thought that was interesting. It was, you know, it was successful. Valentunas decent passer as well. Like you know, with Jokic knows how to play basketball. This, if we can get this as a playoff series, I think it would be extremely satisfying for the season. Right. These two teams feel like they should match up in the playoffs. You know, I think OKC feels like they're going to make the conference finals. Like that's definitely. But the Nuggets and Rockets right now are the. The two other teams that I feel pretty comfortable saying could make the conference finals outside of the next group. And so I hope we get that as a playoff series. Seven games of it would be amazing. Somebody's going to get ejected though.

Zena Cata (14:38)

Yeah, absolutely. This is a random question between the Rockets and Nuggets. Which one do you like against OKC more in a playoff series?

Dave DeFore (14:47)

Oh, I would go Denver especially full strength. I think that's a fair answer.

Zena Cata (14:52)

I think that's a fair answer.

Andrew Schlecht (14:54)

How do you feel?

Esperahenny (14:54)

More high flying and acrobatic and fun and dunks on everybody's heads.

Dave DeFore (15:01)

Just torching for Aaron Gordon not exist. Christian Brown doesn't exist.

Esperahenny (15:05)

Well, well, well, you know.

Dave DeFore (15:07)

Well, they don't right now.

Esperahenny (15:08)

Get there. They don't right now. Ex. So, you know, looking at the eye test right now, I feel like Houston would be a lot of fun.

Zena Cata (15:14)

I will say the Rockets are similar in the sense that like great defensive team, offensive team. That's still trying to figure it out. I mean they've, they've been good offensively this year.

Esperahenny (15:22)

But OKC looks interesting.

Dave DeFore (15:24)

Yeah, exactly.

Zena Cata (15:24)

It's very similar. So they, they'd clash heads more than the Nuggets, which is a very different brand of basketball compared to okc. I don't know. Just.

Andrew Schlecht (15:32)

Yeah.

Esperahenny (15:32)

You would see two different. Exactly two different brands of basketball in Denver and okc which would make for a more intriguing game but just pure like excitement up and down pace would be crazy. Athletic, unbelievable plays and also buttery scoring out of Kevin Durant and a Shea like I don't know, it'd be a nice game too out of Houston though.

Dave DeFore (15:55)

Guys. Stick around after the break. We're going to talk about Xena's interview with Steve Kerr for the Athletics show and I'm trying to figure out is this his last season coaching the Warriors?

Andrew Schlecht (16:05)

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Dave DeFore (20:03)

You guys might not know this, but Xena is the busiest person in sports media. I, I make that joke all the time. But it's, it's legitimate.

Zena Cata (20:10)

It's true.

Dave DeFore (20:11)

Yeah, we actually have a television show on Amazon Prime. It's called the Athletic show and we're very proud that Xena is on that show with Robert Mays and Jason Goff. It's a great show. Sam Amick made an appearance on the most recent episode, but also Xena had an exclusive interview with Steve Kerr and it was, it's worth your time. Zena. First of all, tell me about the Athletic show and like what are you guys doing over there?

Esperahenny (20:37)

Yeah, we shoot out of Chicago and it's a show that one. It gives the athletic vibe that you get within the app of cool stories, maybe some stories that you wouldn't have expected to see make headlines. But because we have a very vast newsroom, we get the access and we get the opportunity to kind of dive into some of those offbeat and topic type of stories. And so we kind of bring that to life in person with me, Robert and Jason and we kind of talk about these different themes and topics that pop up. And so this week was all about the NBA and different things, whether it was we talked a little bit about the NBA cup and what our thoughts were. Yep. And but one of the things that we, we had the opportunity to do was talk about Steve Kerr and really the, the next generation of, of the NBA and what, what does that look like? And we got to ask his opinion of what that looks like from a player's perspective, especially because he's been a player, he's been a coach. But then we also got to ask him his own experience, and that was really cool, too.

Dave DeFore (21:38)

Yeah. So, okay. I watched this interview, and s. I don't know if you're of the same mind as me, but this really felt like Steve Kerr setting the table to walk away after this season. Obviously, everybody there is older. The, you know, the. The crew is kind of graduating out. Zena, you were talking about the Unks. Yeah. UNCS don't win a lot of championships. And, you know, you have a group talking about if everything breaks right, you know, we think we can win. And it hasn't broken right so far. Like, this doesn't look like a team that's a serious contender. His contract expires at the end of the year. I mean, if Steph. If Steph is ready to move on to the next phase of Steph Curry's career, I think that that maybe plays into this. Could you see Steve Kerr walking away?

Zena Cata (22:27)

I. I can't imagine. And, Xena, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, but I can't imagine a world where Steph and Steve Kerr and Draymond Green don't kind of go all out together. You know, where. You guys have seen the Ninja Turtles meme, where, like, you know, yeah, they're. They're the old, you know, bringing the guy back, and then they're all leaving together much older. I don't know if our producers can throw that up here, but shout out to that Ninja Turtles meme. That's kind of what it feels like with the Warriors. Right? It feels like Steve Kerr is going to usher these guys out of the league, much like how they all came in together, you know, and started that dynasty. I just feel like that's the poetic way for this to end, if that makes sense. Also, I like that Xena, you mentioned the Team USA aspect to him, and he's not coaching Team USA in 2028. Eric Spoelstra is now the head coach. Right. So it's very clear that he is moving into the next phase of his life. What that is, I think a lot of it has to do with whether the warriors have anything left in the tank.

Esperahenny (23:33)

Yeah, that's a really. That's an interesting point for me. I kind of look at it as if you're in a room and there's multiple light switches on, and before you leave the room, you gotta make sure that, you know, you hit all three before you like. And so it's like that one light switch for Team USA is now turned off. And of course, you still have. What's remaining is his player switch has already been turned off, his broadcaster switch has been turned off. His. And he could potentially turn that one back on. Who knows? But he's also turned off that Team USA one and the last one really is the warriors one. And what really resonated with me was when he we were, I was going to go to another question, but he paused me to tell me, you know, wait, I want to just talk about that, that we deserve the chance, right? The warriors deserve that. He was referencing just the opportunity to see where this could all end up. And that's the biggest thing with the warriors overall. When you have a dynasty and you've. And you are realizing that it's closing, you want the chance to make sure.

Dave DeFore (24:36)

Right?

Esperahenny (24:36)

You want to go ahead and make sure and kick the tires down all the way around to make sure. Are we really done? Have we spent every last bit of energy to potentially win again? And I really respected that, that he's going about it that way. He's made it very clear to the media he does not want to talk about his contract extension. And not just with the media. He's not talking about it even with, like, Joe Lakup and Dunlevy. He's focusing on the season at hand, and we'll see what happens. But yeah, it's, it's interesting to think. And I agree with you, S. I don't know if I would include Draymond in that group, interestingly enough.

Dave DeFore (25:13)

A little bit younger.

Esperahenny (25:14)

Yeah, a little bit younger. Yeah. But I would definitely look at the Steve and Stefan like that pairing doesn't feel like it would exist without the other.

Dave DeFore (25:22)

Yeah, I, I, I want to just ask you guys, do you remember Tim Duncan retiring?

Zena Cata (25:29)

Yeah, of course.

Dave DeFore (25:30)

The, the thought was Gregg Popovich would go out with and that didn't happen because, you know, there is a point where a player can't play, but the point where a coach can't coach is a long ways off for Steve Kerr. Like, maybe he's still hungry and he just wants a different challenge. I mean, what if Steve Kerr decides he wants to go be a college basketball coach? Or what if Barcelona comes calling and he, you know, I mean, Bayern Munich is sadly looking for a new coach right now. You know, I, I mean, what if he's looking for a quality of life upgrade and not just. Or again, a new challenge?

Zena Cata (26:04)

Not A big fan of the Bay Area days.

Dave DeFore (26:05)

Well, no, no, what I mean is 60 is pretty young for a coach. I mean, the NBA coaches, they, they, they can just do this longer and, and it doesn't mean. Don't get out of the way, Steve. So some younger guy can't. Can't get a chance. Okay, that's my son.

Esperahenny (26:21)

Sure.

Dave DeFore (26:21)

Well, maybe not him. There's probably a bunch of other guys in line ahead of.

Esperahenny (26:24)

I'm just joking.

Dave DeFore (26:26)

Or women, too, by the way, Lindsay Harding. Pretty good.

Esperahenny (26:30)

Can I give you a difference? Because I think that Tim Duncan, Gregg Popovich is a wonderful example. And the difference is, and this is what Steve has not seen yet, Kawhi Leonard.

Dave DeFore (26:43)

Right, right.

Zena Cata (26:45)

Like, yeah, that's true.

Esperahenny (26:46)

Tim Duncan retires in 2016. Spurs win a championship in 2014. Right. With Kawhi. Like, there was a next generation. There was a direction in which. The spurs aren't done yet. We're not quite finished yet. We still have something to squeeze out of this. And right now there is no clarity as to what. Yeah, he's, he's la.

Dave DeFore (27:06)

Marcus Aldrich, though, guys, it was like he, he promised lamarcus Aldridge he wouldn't leave. I mean, okay, but he may not stay.

Zena Cata (27:13)

Brandon Pajimski, guys, Jimmy Butler, the LaMarcus.

Dave DeFore (27:16)

Aldridge of this situation. Is that where we're at?

Esperahenny (27:18)

Where.

Dave DeFore (27:19)

Hey, as long as Jimmy.

Esperahenny (27:20)

Yeah, I mean, I don't know about that. I don't think so. I don't think so. But either way, there's there was a, there was a shift in. Yeah, there's still something there and there. I think that that's the only reason.

Dave DeFore (27:31)

And by the way, that's one of the best coaches of all time. Yeah. If we're talking about rings and how.

Zena Cata (27:37)

Many, how many times have. And Xena, you'll know this. Dave, you'll know this. How many times have the warriors themselves cited two timelines in direct conversation with the San Antonio Spurs? They have been trying so hard to toggle the exact same line the spurs did and did successfully, but they haven't been able to do that. So it's just, it's really hard to do what the spurs did. You know, Absolutely.

Dave DeFore (28:02)

One other thing that I thought was, was an interesting point of, of conversation with Steve Kerr was talking about the shift in generation. This is. I mean, we're, we're watching over the next couple years, we're going to have an NBA that doesn't have LeBron in it, that doesn't have Steph Curry in it. No, Kevin Durant, you know, and those are three of the greatest players of all time.

Zena Cata (28:22)

Yeah.

Dave DeFore (28:22)

What does it look like after this? Right. And. And I thought that there was a point where the, the worry, the concern about the American basketball player and there's some hand wringing there. And if I may, as a guy who has been around the world a little bit with the sport, it isn't so much like, yes, the American players, like, we can say they've fallen off, but it's in relation because the rest of the world is. Has caught up. Yeah, right. And they have just gotten so much better. The game is spread so far. It's just like I thought Sam Amick made a really great point that the NBA, like, this is a global game and it now looks even more like a game that has influence from around the world. And I think that the more of that we get, the better the NBA is going to be. And that's really what the, the generational shift is. To me, we're going from the overwhelming dominance of the American player.

Esperahenny (29:15)

Yes.

Dave DeFore (29:15)

To the rest of the world is in that mix now too. Not. And it's not. They're not. Let's just say for on the record, they right now, like the rest of the world, let's say, has the top few players. It's not that far. It's not that big of a gap. It's not something where there's a, A crisis in American basketball.

Zena Cata (29:34)

But no, of course, this is, this.

Dave DeFore (29:35)

Is the league that we're moving into. It's just an ERA shift.

Zena Cata (29:39)

I will also say it's a shift in how we consume the sport too, as we've talked about a bunch. But I remember when I was a kid, like, I could watch Baron Davis four times a year. And so the All Star Game was very exciting to me because it was the time where all of them could come together. You don't necessarily have that now. I can go and watch Baron Davis highlights if I like to. And I don't know why I'm bringing.

Dave DeFore (30:02)

Up a highlight reel talking about the Bay.

Esperahenny (30:06)

I think that's, you know, maybe that's what I mean.

Zena Cata (30:07)

Yeah, no, you're right.

Andrew Schlecht (30:08)

You're right.

Esperahenny (30:08)

Great, great.

Zena Cata (30:09)

Series versus the MA Mavericks. You know, we believe warriors, et cetera, et cetera. But generally, like, you had to make time to watch a specific player if you were excited about them. Nowadays you can follow that player almost religiously. You can stand them if you will and follow their SGA's every waking.

Dave DeFore (30:27)

You can read his poetry on Instagram.

Zena Cata (30:29)

You can read his poetry. I think that, that that level of consumption is also something where you don't see. I personally, I'm not sure if we'll see a guy have as impactful and as famous of a career as we saw with Lebron or Steph anymore. I think that level of celebrity just won't be there anymore because our tension span is all shifted. So we can get a little bit of Victor Wembanyama, we can get a little bit of sga, but we will quickly move on. You know what I mean? That's also part of it.

Esperahenny (31:01)

I think that this, this is a really great point in terms of the consumption of the sport. And I think not only as a fan and consumers of the sport, the players and the consumption of the game, but you hear how many. Like when we talk about the generational shift, I imagine and I immediately think how many times are we now going to hear the next generation of players and say, I was watching Cooper Flag highlights the way you heard Victor Weminyama say, I watch KD highlights. Right. Like this generation of players that we have now that's about to shift out. They kind of set the ground. They're the last of the generation that set the ground of how do we play this game? What kind of skills do we want to incorporate now? Everyone has their own coaches, everyone has their own route of going about the game, their specializations. And so that's what's really sad to me is that the homage that's been paid in this generation and the way they played, I don't know that this new generation, even as it gets global, will get the same love. Unless it's Nikola Jokic and Shay, unless you are like the cream of the crop. But that's kind of the biggest shift I see too is how the game evolves from paying homage from those that came before us. And we'll see what happens there. But overall it's good for the game. It's good for the growth of the game. It's great for Silver. He's happy as hell about it, I'm sure. And the. Yeah, American, American basketball will be just fine. While the rest of the world.

Dave DeFore (32:37)

Kids to Madrid, guys, just. It's a double, double whammy. They get a good education and they get to play some good hoops anyway.

Andrew Schlecht (32:43)

Right?

Dave DeFore (32:43)

That's going to do it for the show, folks. Go and check out the athletic show. You can watch it on Amazon Prime. It's on. They have a YouTube channel as well. You can watch it on the athletic YouTube channel, obviously. Social media stuff is everywhere. Xena, we're really pumped. I really enjoy that show. You're very good on it. So yeah. Thank you guys for listening. Leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcast and like this video on YouTube if you're watching it there. For Xena, Keda and Esperahenny, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for listening.

Esperahenny (33:22)

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