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- [00:00]
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Dave DeForest
Whoa.
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Andrew Schleck
I just found out you can earn up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases made with Apple Card.
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Yeah, you can earn unlimited daily cash back with Apple Card on every purchase. No matter where you check out with Apple Pay, you always get daily cash.
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The possibilities are endless.
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That's like endless plus one.
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- [02:11]
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- [02:59]
Andrew Schleck
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. Coming up, we had a Super bowl on Sunday. Andrew Schleck's here to talk about game seven from every single angle. Game seven, the two best words in sports. Xena Keda. Esperaheni. Andrew Schlect. Dave DeForest, NBA Daily in the house. Andrew still in the Paycom Center Arena. You can hear the balls in the background if you're just listening. Andrew. What. What a performance from the Oklahoma City Thunder. Wow.
- [03:36]
Xena Keda
Yeah. Defensively, this was their best game that they've played. They held the Nuggets in 93 total points, 39% from the field, and they really limited everything. I mean, the Thunder knew heading into this game that Aaron Gordon was going to be limited. And obviously he's great for their defense, but offensively, there wasn't a whole lot going outside of Nikola Jokic, and he didn't even have a great game. And a lot of that was. The Thunder filled every single gap there was. Yeah, they basically played eight guys in this one with their starting lineup, plus Alex Caruso, Aaron Wiggins, Casen Wallace. And they had this revolving door of players. It was like they weren't, like, playing like, hey, here's this lineup. Here's that lineup. It was just a revolving door of. And, like, we're gonna play, you know, five out. We're gonna play all guards for two minutes. We're gonna play super big for two minutes. We're gonna. They put. They gave them every single look. And I think, like, the guys to really look at that had the intensity that you'd want. And this is not anything new, but it's Casey Wallace and Alex Caruso. Oh, yeah, Those two brought it off the bench. Caruso was the primary defender for.
- [04:46]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah. When he came in large stretches of this one. Yeah.
- [04:51]
Xena Keda
I've got Teddy Tumbleson here in the background. Matt Tumbleson's son listening in live. I love it. It's just great. Thunder PR extraordinaire. Yeah. I just thought their defensive activity was just different. It was special. It was. That's probably the best defensive game I've seen them play. And we're talking about one of the best defensive teams ever to play. And we've saw great stretches for them all year. That was the best. And they said that they came into this with a sense of urgency. Was like, where is that sense of urgency in game six? But it was definitely here in game seven.
- [05:22]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah.
- [05:22]
Xena Keda
And that was the difference maker, yes, they made shots. They had 64 points in the paint, which was unbelievable. But it all started on the defensive end where, like, the Nuggets had no answers. It was basically like Jokic just kind of just, I'm have to throw myself into these guys so that I can get free throws. And like, that's about the only thing we have cooking here.
- [05:41]
Esperaheni
By the end of the third quarter, the Thunder had 4, 17 turnovers and gotten 22 points off of that. And I definitely want to credit the defense. I think that was the start and the onus of everything for the Thunder. But also give credit to the Thunder for finally, really confidently breaking the zone. We hadn't seen that really since game two. Them finding ways around the zone, finding the gaps, finding a way to take advantage of that. And you knew that Aaron Gordon was going to be trying to be, you know, hidden on the backside of that zone. And the swing, swing. You saw so many of that dunker spot opportunities, Hartenstein chat getting up and the guards being able to take advantage of that because they knew who was in that position early in the game. You thought, hey, maybe attack him directly. But they were so tactical about the way that they exposed this zone. And I think that that's going to carry them well, especially going into the Western Conference finals. Like, talk a little bit about their offense. Like, what did it look like out there for you to see it? It looks very energetic from tv. But what was it like in real time?
- [06:44]
Xena Keda
Yeah, a lot of times the way the teams crack zones is that they get perimeter shots to go in.
- [06:49]
Andrew Schleck
Right.
- [06:50]
Xena Keda
And that was not the case in this game. You were exactly right. The dunker spot was huge for them. And it was. The ball just had to move. The ball definitely had energy for them, and they were finding wide open dunks. You know, like, at one point I was like, how many dunks do they have? They have like seven or eight dunks in this game.
- [07:06]
Andrew Schleck
It felt like they had like two or three in a row at one point.
- [07:10]
Xena Keda
There were. There were a lot, and they just had to find their way into the paint. Some of it was J Dub actually seeing his shot go in, in this one, which was not something we saw in game six. And then some of it was, yeah, incredible passing. Like, I think backdoor was one thing that they really started to find in this one. And a lot of that was Aaron Gordon's a step slower than he was in the previous games. And like, when you're that much slower, like, guys know that and they took advantage of it. I mean, there was like a very easy backdoor pass from Chet to Caruso early on in this one that was like. Oh, like, I think like that was a moment where like, just like the light turned on. Like. Okay, like that's. That's where we're going.
- [07:51]
Andrew Schleck
To me, like, they were much more dedicated to the ball getting to touch the nail. Right. No matter who it was, someone was cutting across the middle. And that's a great point that you picked up. And that's how they were getting those passes. It wasn't just breaking the zone by making shots. I mean. I mean, we watched this game and we watched this whole series. The Nuggets just didn't guard Lou Dortmund, so it was going to be death by dort if. If you didn't figure out a way to break it down. They made a huge difference. I mean, it. G. Mark Dagnaut made the adjustment from game six to game seven that just won them the series.
- [08:25]
Dave DeForest
Yeah, I. I also. I want to get on my Alex Caruso corner for here for a second.
- [08:31]
Esperaheni
He's my space for me too.
- [08:32]
Dave DeForest
Yeah. Everybody get on the bandwagon here for Alex Crusoe.
- [08:34]
Xena Keda
Come on.
- [08:35]
Dave DeForest
Think about.
- [08:35]
Andrew Schleck
I believe I might have been first to this bandwagon.
- [08:40]
Dave DeForest
Look, he played 25 minutes to. He was plus 40. Okay. He is plus 69 throughout this series and he's averaging.
- [08:48]
Xena Keda
Nice.
- [08:49]
Andrew Schleck
Nice.
- [08:49]
Dave DeForest
Yeah, very nice. And he's averaging 23 minutes. 23 minutes and plus 69. He guarded Nicola Jokic for massive stretches of this game. There is a hundred pound difference between Nicola Jokic and Alex caruso. There's a 6 inch difference also. Obviously the. The defense is a huge part of it, but to think about them being able to lean on him. I thought he changed the game for OKC. He was 21 to 10.
- [09:17]
Andrew Schleck
Right.
- [09:18]
Dave DeForest
The crowd was a little. You could even feel, actually, Andrew, how that. How that crowd was at the start of the game. That was a huge storyline too. But you can talk about that later if you want. The switch. The momentum change that Caruso brought into this game was massive. And I just feel like it's.
- [09:34]
Andrew Schleck
It was.
- [09:35]
Dave DeForest
It has been that all series for them. So shout out to Alex Caruso. Everybody here on their Caruso corner.
- [09:41]
Xena Keda
Yeah, he. He was massive. Obviously, defensively, somebody just hit a big shot over there. Somebody. Somebody hit a big. Some. Some kid hit a big shot over here. We got like a team of kids having a game over here. Yeah, he was. He was huge in this one and I. Caruso does a really good Job of like, trying to engage the crowd, but there was a point where, like, the Thunder are down early and Caruso usually, like, when you're trying to engage the crowd, you're yelling a lot and like, you're like, trying to get people hyped up. But he gave this, like, almost like, reassuring, like, look at the crowd. And he's like, come on, come on. You know, to the crowd like this. He's gesturing to the crowd. And it's not like, everybody get up. But it's like, come on, come on. And like, he not only communicates with his teammates, well, with his coach as well, but like, with the Oklahoma City crowd. The way he connects with them is. Is like, really pretty special. But, yeah, I mean, like, what? Like, I. You could make a highlight reel of him just defending Jokic.
- [10:40]
Dave DeForest
Yeah.
- [10:41]
Xena Keda
Where he is grabbing, pushing, tugging, like holding his jersey, holding his short.
- [10:47]
Andrew Schleck
I think the Nuggets are putting that highlight reel together right now to send to the NBA league officer.
- [10:54]
LinkedIn Sales Navigator
I'm sure they are.
- [10:55]
Xena Keda
But, like, the thing is, like. And Alex knows this too, like, you can get away with a little bit more when the guy does have a 100 pound advantage against.
- [11:02]
Dave DeForest
Absolutely.
- [11:02]
Xena Keda
And also the. The way that Jokic move, it works to his advantage to get fouls called, but sometimes it works to his disadvantage because, like, he's always moving weird and he's. Yeah, what is what? And so, like, Caruso does such a good job of denying the basketball, which is like the biggest thing for Jokic is like, how do we make it hard for him to get the fronting him and getting.
- [11:24]
Dave DeForest
Yeah, exactly.
- [11:25]
Xena Keda
Oh, he fronts him.
- [11:26]
Andrew Schleck
He's.
- [11:27]
Xena Keda
I mean, and it's just. He's one guy that, like, you. And there's a lot of guys like this, but he's one of the guys you look at in the NBA. It's like he has maximized every single part of himself for the NBA.
- [11:39]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah.
- [11:40]
Xena Keda
He has done everything. And it's, you know, he's so impressive.
- [11:44]
Andrew Schleck
You know, we say in basketball circles, got that dog in him. I mean, that's the only way you can do it. I mean, like, it was comical to watch the size difference between the two of them. And it was one on one. And Jokic, they just. I mean, of course they send to help, but it's not often that they guard Jokic one on one with a guy who's given up that massage. And. And it is totally common for guards to get that much leeway against the big inside. I do think that we should take a minute to talk about Aaron Gordon, even though, you know, the Nuggets lost this game, that's. That's a heroic performance from a guy who clearly could, like, he could barely run.
- [12:22]
Dave DeForest
Absolutely.
- [12:22]
Andrew Schleck
I mean, yeah, like, it looked bad on tv, I imagine watching him there and every. It looked like every single time he had to stop after doing something, he was like grabbing at that leg. He still like, was able to out rebound the Thunder early on. I mean, basically one of the few guys that it felt like was playing up to his abilities in the game at least, you know, for. For the Nuggets.
- [12:44]
Xena Keda
Yeah, it was, it was one of the stranger things before the game because, like, you hear these reports that he has this grade 2 hamstring strain and you automatically think, like, he's not going to play. Like, there's no way this guy's playing through this. That's not going to happen. And then we hear David Adelman talk before the game, say, well, he's going to warm up and try to give it a go.
- [13:02]
Dave DeForest
Yeah.
- [13:03]
Xena Keda
And so I'm like, like what? And so I come out here and I plant myself in one of these chairs over here and I'm like, I'm waiting until Aaron Gordon comes out here and I'm gonna watch his entire warm up to see like what he looks like and like to see like, is he actually gonna give it a go? And he came out and he pretty much did his entire routine that he normally does pre game sans a, like, he always does this like explosive leap, you know, to dunk it at the end of his routine. And clearly did not do that, which was not surprising. But I think it's funny because I talked to a ton of people afterwards. I was like, what do you think? Like, what'd you think after watching that? And it was like 50, 50, like, oh, there's no way he's going like, all he's doing is taking jumpers. He's walking from jump shot to jump shot. There's no way he's playing. There's other people that are like, oh, he's absolutely playing. And I think a lot of the choice was probably his and the score.
- [13:54]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah, of course.
- [13:54]
Xena Keda
Because I think a most organizations at this point would probably be like, there ain't no way you're playing with that kind of injury because you may cost yourself the all of next season.
- [14:04]
Esperaheni
Right, right.
- [14:05]
Xena Keda
With something like that. And so obviously this is a guy who's part of a champion, all of that. He's been what I would say, like the most clutch player in these Playoffs, you know, so far he's now eliminated, but like, he had second best Nugget.
- [14:18]
Dave DeForest
Crazy run this postseason for sure.
- [14:20]
Xena Keda
Very easy, no question. And like, I mean, outside of Jokic, he's the second most important nugget to them. And like he. Him not being able to be 100% and especially when you're talking about that zone, especially on the inside, not him not being his full self was a huge reason why the Thunder were able to crack that and score 64 points in the paint. So, like, you have to give him a ton of credit for giving it a go. But like, when you look at who was behind him, like, Peyton Watson played 20 minutes tonight, he's a minus 27 in those minutes, you know, wasn't hitting shots. He's not really effective as an offensive player. Defensively, he can make wow plays, but he's kind of a wild man. And like Aaron Gordon's like the opposite of that. He's like, he's completely steady. He knows everything Thunder want to do. He knows how to shut it down. And it doesn't matter if it's Jay, if it's Chet, if it's J Dub, it's Case and Wallace doesn't matter. Like, he'll be there. And like missing him, I think was like the reason that, you know, the Thunder ended up scoring 125 points in this game.
- [15:18]
Esperaheni
Hey, I'm. I'm trying to figure out if you heard from any of the players about returning to themselves in the sense of okc looked like the OKC we've seen all season. Tonight. They won the deflections in the steals game by plus 10. They. They won the points off of turnovers. They won the fast break battle. They. They won the assist battle. Like everything that we've expected. Okc, how they got to that number one seed, how they got to the playoffs. They played within the cookie cutter mold of who they were, but it felt it took to game seven for us to see that consistently throughout a game. Even though they got down early, they did that during the season. Two, a few games where they got down and were able to come back very quickly and very fervently. Did anyone talk about that post game about like, we were just. We just played OKC ball and it felt normal and natural, or do we do. Do we give that much credit to how much Aaron Gordon was hurt and that's why they were able to play themselves? Because if that's the case, if the latter is the case, then maybe I am a little still concerned about OKC going up against a Minnesota, but if they just stick to who they were all season long, they should be able to walk through to the finals.
- [16:34]
Xena Keda
Yeah. I mean, they still didn't shoot the ball well in this one. You know, they. They shot 30% from three, but they were able to find other ways to score. I think the version that we did see that was OKC was just the defense, like I talked about earlier.
- [16:50]
Esperaheni
Yeah.
- [16:51]
Xena Keda
They will always say like our. When they, when we ask an offensive question, it's always like, well, it started on the defensive end, you know, and it's like the amount that they could get them turned over was like a huge deal. 22 turnovers.
- [17:03]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah.
- [17:03]
Xena Keda
You know, for the Nuggets tonight. And like that to me was like, that's like you said, the deflections, the turnovers, that's OKC basketball. And like that. That to me was like the biggest deal. And like whether that, like how much that had to do with Aaron Gordon, I don't know because.
- [17:19]
Andrew Schleck
Well, you talked about Jalen seeing the ball go in and that came. That came off the turnovers. Right. And. And maybe that was Gordon being a little slowed because he is kind of that third playmaker. But I do think that this was OKC sticking to the OKC script is what it looked like to me.
- [17:34]
Dave DeForest
It was. It was the OKC script in game two. Right. As well. Yeah. Blew the doors off the Nuggets was the exact same script that we saw in game. And I think, like, you see this progression in the seven game series of these battles, these close games. In game five, they pull out a close victory. It was all about like, can they prove it in the clutch. Well, they did. Right. Can they close out a series in game 6? They weren't able to close out a series and they defiantly closed out a series here in game seven. Andrew, I know obviously you cover this team, you watch them and. And you see them grow up. Right. This was a growing up series for this Oklahoma City Thunders. You think they look at J dub.
- [18:15]
Andrew Schleck
It was a growing up game. The lights look too bright in this game to start and they turned it around. I mean, I think that it would have been. We could have all had a nice neat narrative if OKC came out and lost that game. You know what, we knew it was coming and they turned it around us. I mean, you know, not to jump in there, Andrew, but I do think that in this game they actually did. The light started out too bright and they found themselves.
- [18:43]
Dave DeForest
But the question I have is like, Is the monkey off their back now? Like, are they just gonna play free moving forward knowing that they've got over this massive hurdle? You know?
- [18:52]
Xena Keda
Yeah, I, I think honestly the, the Nuggets were maybe the best team for them to face.
- [18:59]
Dave DeForest
Yeah.
- [18:59]
Xena Keda
In the second round because they had. The Nuggets have everything that Thunder don't have. Right. Which is a championship. You know, guys that have been battle tested, they have all of that.
- [19:14]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah.
- [19:14]
Xena Keda
And the Thunder don't have it. And now they, now they do. It took seven games for them to get it. You know, Mark talked a lot about how, like, this is a bet we're a better team than we were, you know, before this series started. And he said, and I credit the Nuggets. Like, the Nuggets have, you know, championship. They're a championship caliber team and like, to go beat a championship caliber team, like, you have to grow through that. I think that defensively they're a better seasoned team. I think that it was, it was important to me that they blew them out without even shooting well from three, 30 from three. And they blew them out anyways. Like, the Thunder are like, finding ways now. Like, I think that they are learning how to become like the fully realized version of themselves. And like, one, it starts on the defensive end for them, and then two, it's about like this two headed monster and Shay and Jada and like those two. If those two are clicking, then it's going to be really hard to stop them because they have a lot of answers elsewhere.
- [20:11]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah.
- [20:12]
Xena Keda
You know, you have Caruso. I think that Casen Wallace is a star in his role. I think that Chet Holmgren had a really nice game too. Isaiah Hartenstein only played 17 minutes, but 17 really important minutes for them. And so I just think, like, yes, I do think this was a huge test getting past Jokic. In some ways, it felt like the final boss, you know, for them.
- [20:33]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah.
- [20:33]
Xena Keda
You know, like, this was, it was a big deal for them to get past Jokic for sure.
- [20:37]
Andrew Schleck
You know, but the, the Minnesota Timberwolves did the exact same thing last year, and they couldn't get the job done. So I look forward to seeing what happens. I think we've got, I mean, this is going to be an incredible conference finals matchup. I just think from a star power standpoint, it's going to be great. Andrew, I'm gonna let you get out of here because I, I, I think I hear the Harlem Globetrotters are doing, like, dribbling drills right next to you or something. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, guys, stick around after the break. Our first chance to talk about the conference finals. And I gotta ask Xena for some WNBA picks.
- [21:16]
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- [21:18]
Andrew Schleck
Whoa. I just found out you can earn up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases made with Apple Card.
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Dave DeForest
Yeah, you can earn unlimited daily cash back with Apple Card on every purchase. No matter where you check out with Apple Pay, you always get daily cash.
- [21:34]
Andrew Schleck
The possibilities are endless.
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Andrew Schleck
That's like endless plus one.
- [21:47]
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- [22:07]
Xena Keda
As.
- [22:07]
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- [23:28]
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- [24:11]
Andrew Schleck
The conference finals are now set and it's time for our bet. MGM picks of the day. We're going to talk about the conference finals. Oklahoma City Thunder and the Minnesota Timberwolves. This matchup, I think is excellent when you consider just one to one head to head matchups. You got Anthony Edwards, Shay Gildas Alexander, Jaylen Williams, Jaden McDaniels. I mean, what is Rudy Gobert going to be like going up against Chet and, and Isaiah Hardenstein? I think you've got, you got some really fun individual matchups. And obviously the way these teams have come together over the course of the year, obviously the Thunder were this machine that won 68 games. And then right before the season starts, the Timberwolves make this wholesale change to their entire identity and they sort of find themselves over the course of the season and you know, we called them the most confusing team in the NBA and it seems like they've sort of figured themselves out as we got into the playoffs. So, Zena, I'm start with you, Minnesota okc. Pick a winner and give me how many games.
- [25:14]
Esperaheni
Geez.
- [25:15]
Andrew Schleck
I mean, put you on the spot first.
- [25:16]
Esperaheni
Yeah, you did. That's all good. I'm just thinking about the fact that we were horrifically wrong about that Denver OKC series. I mean, we were right about Denver pushing it, but we were not right about who would win the final game.
- [25:29]
Dave DeForest
I was.
- [25:30]
Esperaheni
Oh, were you okay, my badass.
- [25:32]
Dave DeForest
Yeah, sorry.
- [25:33]
Andrew Schleck
We were all super wrong about Boston coming back.
- [25:35]
Dave DeForest
So we were very wrong about.
- [25:37]
Esperaheni
That's maybe what I'm thinking.
- [25:38]
Andrew Schleck
We were wish casting there. Let's be honest. I. I'm.
- [25:42]
Esperaheni
The thing about, after having seen that team up close, Minnesota against the warriors, and just how well they have figured out how to keep Anthony Edwards in the game when he's not scoring in the first half. And Julius Randle kind of taking ownership of the team while Anthony is getting revved up and the. The length of their defense on the perimeter. I do think the series is going to be long. I don't think it will be a cakewalk. But what I'm trying to think about is the fact that I think OKC has finally realized who they are in the playoffs. Like they definitely did it in the regular season, but today you saw them do what they did in game two comfortably and show the variety of scoring. And I don't know if Minnesota has that variety of scoring to the same degree. Okay, so I'm thinking OKC in seven.
- [26:41]
Andrew Schleck
Oh, okay. That's Pretty close series, though, if it goes seven series. Yeah.
- [26:45]
Dave DeForest
I mean, it should be close.
- [26:46]
Esperaheni
I do think it's gonna be close. I think that there's enough talent on the Minnesota side between Julius and Anthony, but also particularly the star power of Anthony being like, I finally got past the Lakers, the Warriors, y' all took care of Denver. Cool. Like, I'm here now. This is my opportunity. That's what I'm thinking, that he's going to will seven games for this team.
- [27:11]
Andrew Schleck
The question of who's going to guard Julius Randle is an interesting one.
- [27:15]
Esperaheni
Right. Because if Julius wants to go down and post, he can do that. Can't be Chad wants to go out and shoot. No, can't be exactly exact.
- [27:22]
Dave DeForest
It's going to be J Dub. I think it probably ends up being J Dub or Alex Caruso once he's.
- [27:26]
Esperaheni
Put in the car.
- [27:28]
Dave DeForest
Yep, yep. Absolutely. Look, the Okcs, tons of options. I can't wait for the defensive matchup between these two teams because Denver just laid out the blueprint on how to guard OKC for seven games. Zone up, force Shay to move the ball, basically a box and one against sga. Right. And force all these other guys to make shots. I. I think Minnesota can do that.
- [27:50]
Andrew Schleck
But they can better personnel to do it.
- [27:51]
Dave DeForest
They have a better defensive team to do that. Exactly, Dave. And so it's like if they can just copy that and adapt that to what they can do in a seven game series. I agree. It's going to be a long series, six or seven games. I. I do lean okc, but the only reason I lean OKC is because I actually do think it's a monkey off their back. I think they learned what it takes to win. You could say the same thing about Minnesota though, because they.
- [28:16]
Andrew Schleck
I'm gonna say the same thing about Minnesota. Okay. Okay. All right. So you guys are both OKC and seven, is that it? Yeah.
- [28:24]
Dave DeForest
Okay. Scene seven.
- [28:25]
Andrew Schleck
I'm saying Wolves in six. I think Anthony Edwards is taking. I think he's taking his leap. I think the playmaking.
- [28:32]
Esperaheni
I know you know, Xena, you talked.
- [28:34]
Andrew Schleck
About seeing him up close. And the thing that I saw was this guy let the game come to him. That 12 assist game. You go back and watch that. I watched it. I rewatched that game because I was trying to figure out, like, how did he get this 12 assists, like so easily. And it's just so the game come to him and that's the next step. And all of these guys that are number one guys, when they learn to control their Own pace and the pace of the game around them. They take these leaps, I don't know. So yeah, I'm leaning Minnesota also. It's more fun if I'm rooting for them in the East. Guys, we're back in the 90s. Knicks Pacers, game one at MSG. I'm actually gonna be in New York and I'm gonna try to sneak to this game because I just, I mean the idea that Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing and I could all be in Madison Square Garden at the same time, I feel like everyone is a big fan of that. Look, the, the Knicks, they figured something out in Game 6 for themselves. It was great. Like they put away the Celtics. It was an impressive win. Even, even with the Tatum injury. And we have been really high on the Indiana Pacers and, and their two way play. But especially their ability to constantly put pressure on you by scoring the basketball. I mean, it just. They are a machine and they just put the ball in the basket and if you don't, it gets late fast. So guys, start with us. Handicap this for me. Like, tell me, where are you leaning?
- [29:56]
Dave DeForest
Look, these teams played last year in the conference semifinals. The Knicks were not healthy in that one. It's a very different Knicks team too. Carl Anthony Towns and Mikhail Bridges are on the team now. So it's a little bit different of a series. I'm very excited to see Jalen Brunson versus Andrew Nemhard. That's a key matchup. Brunson was awesome last year against him. Very excited to see how the Knicks deal with the Pacers defense and aggression and point of attack. Obviously. The Knicks also switch a lot now because they did it in the Celtic series and they're probably going to do it against Indiana. How can Indiana beat that switching defense? These are the questions that are just like running through my head. The thing that I'm going to lean Indiana in six. And the reason I say Indiana in six is because we have seen the Knicks have inconsistent games. I have not seen the Pacers have an inconsistent game. They've had one in these playoffs or maybe two in these playoffs. One against Milwaukee, one against Cleveland. New York is kind of on again, off again in the way that they've played some of these series. You think about Detroit, you think about Boston play with their food a little bit more than Indiana does. And I don't think you can do that against the Pacers. I think the Pacers will take advantage of that very, very quickly. Like you said, Dave, with the pace and the way that they're just relentless the way that they score. So. So I'm gonna say Indiana in six. Indiana going to the finals for the first time since Reggie Miller, by the.
- [31:14]
Andrew Schleck
Way, we were here. Wow. Zita.
- [31:16]
Esperaheni
Yeah. I love what New York is doing. I love the grit. It is so New York of them, of the way that they've shown up to these Eastern Conference finals. As much as I would love mayhem in Manhattan, I think that Indiana, on top of all the things that S has mentioned, Indiana also has depth to continue to put pressure on New York. I don't see Campaign or Landry Shamet or anyone that's coming off the bench. Even McBride. Is it McBride?
- [31:53]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah, Deuce. Yeah.
- [31:54]
Esperaheni
Yeah, Deuce McBride. Like, I'm not seeing them come off the bench in the same way that I'm seeing T.J. mcConnell, Obi Toppin come off the bench and produce. And not only produce on the defense, but also produce on the offense and run in transition and all the above. And so at some point, the Thibodeau method is going to keep up and catch up. Right? It's. It's going to be a long series or longer series than maybe New York would like. But I do think it's going to be Indiana and I probably am going to say Indiana and six.
- [32:27]
Xena Keda
Wow.
- [32:28]
Esperaheni
Did you say Indiana and six?
- [32:29]
Andrew Schleck
We're all going. Pacers in six. I just think the death is a big deal. I worry about the Knicks running out of gas and again, they just have. The Pacers can score and in the playoffs, that's really what it comes down it. Yes, you have to be able to defend, but can you actually score? And the Knicks, every single possession just feels like it's a slog. Like it is.
- [32:50]
Dave DeForest
So we should mention so much hard work. It wouldn't surprise any of us if the Knicks win this series, right?
- [32:55]
Andrew Schleck
Oh, you know, no, definitely not. Like we're guessing.
- [32:57]
Esperaheni
No, absolutely not.
- [32:58]
Dave DeForest
Because I thought they would go to the Boston South Celtics at this point. It's like, yeah, they can shine.
- [33:03]
Andrew Schleck
It is close enough. It is all close enough. This is again, like we're in this great era for, For, I think basketball fans. I don't know what's going to happen. We don't. I mean, right now Oklahoma City is the best team and two out of three of us took them to lose in the, in the conference finals. So, you know, I do think that these teams are all pretty well matched. Either way. I think the Pacers Knicks is going to be fun. This might have been the most fun matchup that we could have gotten out of the east as far as just style of play. These guys are going to come out throwing punches. So that's exciting. Speaking of exciting, hey, WNBA kicked off over the weekend and I don't know about you guys, but I mean, I do know that obviously Xena has no time off, no off season. Her podcast over at the Athletic about the WNBA and women's basketball. Yes, I know that you're a big Toronto Tempo fan now.
- [33:54]
Dave DeForest
Yes, I'm ready now that you guys.
- [33:55]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah, that's right. Ready to be a homer for. For that team. I love the wnba. It's a fun time. Like, I mean, I love basketball and especially women's basketball. So, like, it's great time. And I was watching the games over the weekend, number one Friday night, it was really tough. I had a hard time trying to find my Minnesota links on television. So, Zena, give me some advice there. But Zena, I would love for you to tell me who's going to win the championship. But first, tell me about no off season.
- [34:21]
Esperaheni
Yeah, no off season. You laid it out perfectly. We cover all women's basketball, but right now focus is wnba. And the whole purpose is like it's me and three writers. Well, specifically two for the WNBA season, talking about what's going on around the world of women's hoops, particularly as the season goes on. We're going to have a mix of analysis and also what's the cultural story? Because that's the biggest thing about the wnba, I think that's even deeper than any other league within the country, is that you can't tell the story of women's basketball without the cultural elements around it. And the stories of all these players, this year in particular is unique because it's the year before the CBA has to be negotiated, which is like in October 2026. And so you have all these players in new places and they've signed these one year deals because next year almost 95% of the league is like free agents. Get the bag, get the bag. Right? And these players are not playing when it comes to making sure that they get what they want in the cba. But in the midst of them actually playing out on the court, that means you are now seeing teams have a lot more parity. And it's so interesting that the WNBA is gearing up for this type of season after what we just saw in the NBA. I think this has been such a fun year for the NBA because the talent has just been so spread out and well matched. And that's exactly what you're seeing in the WNBA as well. So we talk about it on no offseason. We kick it. If you've never watched women's basketball and you're curious, it's a safe space. We don't gatekeep. We don't make you feel bad because you don't know who won the championship in, you know, 20 years ago.
- [35:56]
Andrew Schleck
I'm a casual WNBA fan.
- [35:58]
Esperaheni
Yeah, it's cool for casual fans. Come hang out with us. Like it's very chill.
- [36:01]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah, it's fun. I don't need to be a wonk. I just like to sit and watch the game. And again, Minnesota Links Nafisha call your best player in the world.
- [36:09]
Xena Keda
Oh.
- [36:09]
Esperaheni
And so you answer your question.
- [36:10]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah. Who's going to win?
- [36:11]
Dave DeForest
Yeah. Don't say the Valkyries. No, I'm just. I'm kidding.
- [36:15]
Esperaheni
You never know. You never know. No joking. I really do think the Minnesota Links are primed after what happened last year. They lost in a thrilling five game series against New York. It was insane. I was there for every game and to the point that they literally feel as if it was stolen from them in an overtime matchup from what they call a bad call. When you have that sort of situation and basically return everyone.
- [36:39]
Andrew Schleck
Yeah.
- [36:40]
Esperaheni
Plus people off the bench. Like a Diamond Miller from injury. Yeah.
- [36:44]
Andrew Schleck
It's a revenge tour.
- [36:46]
Esperaheni
Exactly. You're set up for a revenge tour.
- [36:48]
Dave DeForest
Wow. Is this a links podcast?
- [36:49]
Andrew Schleck
I love it.
- [36:50]
Dave DeForest
Wow.
- [36:50]
Andrew Schleck
Okay.
- [36:51]
Esperaheni
But I mean, and then Nafisa Collier is the best player right now in the world. Like she's. She was the best player. She was number two in MVP voting last year. She won MVP of her league that she started unrivaled but she was phenomenal in unrivaled and now she's bringing that same. I mean she started the season with a 34 point game against the Wings. She looks like she hasn't missed a step and she is ready as you.
- [37:13]
Andrew Schleck
You agree links?
- [37:14]
Dave DeForest
Sure, why not?
- [37:15]
Andrew Schleck
Let's roll up the links. Why not?
- [37:17]
Esperaheni
Yeah, look now picking the two people from New York, I mean look, New.
- [37:21]
Dave DeForest
York has a very good shot. Obviously. I actually think that's probably going to end up being the finals again. But yeah.
- [37:26]
Andrew Schleck
What about.
- [37:26]
Dave DeForest
What about those fever?
- [37:28]
Andrew Schleck
They look pretty good. I was an impressive.
- [37:31]
Dave DeForest
Looks really good in the debut. That was awesome. Caitlyn Clark, obviously. But like they look good.
- [37:37]
Esperaheni
They look very good. Yes.
- [37:38]
Andrew Schleck
Aaliyah Boston looks like she's been in the weight room this summer.
- [37:41]
Esperaheni
Well, she was unrivaled and I do want to call that out unrivaled has allowed a lot of players to unlock different parts of their game, whether it's Leah Boston's midi dribbling angel Reese's ability to facilitate bring the ball up the court. Like, we saw so many different examples of that throughout the weekend. But to your point, s, the Fever are retooled. They got a new coach, and I do need the WNBA to stop acting like Indiana versus Chicago is a rivalry. It's not a rivalry.
- [38:08]
Dave DeForest
No, it's not.
- [38:08]
Esperaheni
That team is significantly better right now than the Chicago sky. So I'm going to hold my breath on the Fever until I see them up against New York, Minnesota or even Las Vegas. We'll see.
- [38:20]
Andrew Schleck
All right, well, that's going to do it for the show, folks. Don't forget, go and subscribe to no off season. If you're watching us on YouTube hit like subscribe, do all that stuff. And if you're listening to us wherever you listen to podcasts, give us a five star review. For Andrew Select Esperaheny Zena Keita I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.
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