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- [00:00]
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- [00:29]
Fred Katz
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- [00:32]
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- [00:35]
Fred Katz
and they just released their new 100% linen collection.
- [00:39]
Abercrombie Brand Promoter
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- [00:41]
Fred Katz
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- [00:49]
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- [01:28]
Andrew
Welcome to the Saturday slam and jam here on the Athletic NBA Daily. On today's show, we're talking about the New York Knicks. We're going to talk about Chet Holmgren and the Thunder and preview game seven, which is happening tonight. And then we're going to do some trivia. With me, as always, this is my good friend, Alex Spears. Alex. Oh, what's up?
- [01:49]
Alex Spears
What's up, Andrew?
- [01:50]
Andrew
What's up? And joining us today, author of under the Bright Lights, the revival of the New York Knicks. Also, he works with me at the Athletic. Also a good friend of mine, Fred Katz. Is this the first time you've been introduced as the author of that book? As the first thing,
- [02:13]
Fred Katz
yes. As the first thing. It's the second time I've been introduced as the author of that book. And the first time I was like, whoa. And it's still weird now, especially because I haven't finished the book.
- [02:28]
Alex Spears
Yeah, you should do that.
- [02:30]
Andrew
Yeah, you got to get on that.
- [02:31]
Fred Katz
It's a little.
- [02:31]
Andrew
Pressure's on.
- [02:32]
Fred Katz
It's a little harder when you don't know the ending, you know, so gotta figure out the ending. When I, when I tweeted out That I was. That I was, you know, coming out with the book and there'd be more information. So many people were like, I hope. I hope you're going to be able to get this. I hope you're going to be able to rewrite the ending. I'm like, no, no. You guys are misunderstanding. How terrible would that book be if it didn't include the revival of the New York Knicks? Was like, we're going to cut it off before they're revived.
- [03:01]
Andrew
You're. You're like, the last chapter is. And Mitchell Robinson broke his pinky period.
- [03:07]
Fred Katz
That would be a good ending. The whole thing is just like a lead up. Like the. The first chapter is only about Mitchell Robinson's pinky. And the whole thing just goes through the history of his pinky. All those pinky has been through. And at the end, it's a tragic ending. The pinky breaks.
- [03:24]
Andrew
It's probably a digital book, right?
- [03:28]
Fred Katz
Very well done.
- [03:31]
Andrew
I stole that from you. I stole that from you on Cats and Shoot, by the way. Okay, Fred.
- [03:35]
Fred Katz
Oh, I did make that.
- [03:36]
Andrew
Yeah. That was your joke. I just say it's your own joke. That's your own joke.
- [03:41]
Fred Katz
That is my own joke. It threw me for a loop.
- [03:43]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah, you were. You. You got so excited. People should go to YouTube and watch it because Fred acted as if he had never heard it before. And he's the one who literally made a digital joke about Mitchell Robinson and whatever. So.
- [04:00]
Fred Katz
Good, good. You know what it shows? It shows that I genuinely enjoy my own sense of humor.
- [04:07]
Andrew
That's true.
- [04:08]
Alex Spears
Fake.
- [04:09]
Andrew
If you want to watch Fred enjoy his own sense of humor, subscribe to the YouTube channel and go watch it. So, Fred, you are writing a book about this current Knicks era, the Knicks who made their first finals since 1999. Unbelievable. You mentioned in your announcement that you've been writing this for the last year and a half, which predates last year's playoff run. What made you initially want to write about this team and now this. Now this team's headed to the finals. Maybe, maybe you were the precursor to that happening. Who knows?
- [04:43]
Fred Katz
I think it's clear that I was. I don't think there's any question about that. Somebody. Somebody, quote, tweeted it when I said it on Twitter. Somebody, quote, tweeted it and said, like, this explains everything. The Knicks are just working really hard to promote Fred's book, which I thought was a hilarious tweet. I don't remember who said it, but whoever said it, props to you. It was very funny. Yeah, I Mean, really, I just thought this team was in a really interesting spot. I think they're an incredibly interesting organization with a lot of demand for, you know, just incredibly passionate fan base and an incredibly large fan base. And I had covered them as a beat writer for three years at the time that I started working on the book. And I was just kind of moving off the beat and into another role at the Athletic. And I just kind of saw so much up close. It had been five years since they had gotten good at that point. Four years since they had gotten good at that point. And I was like, there, there is something here about this organization that was just completely in the cellar for two decades and that hasn't been to a finals in 27 years now, hadn't won one since 1973. And the way that they have reconstructed the organization, not just how they rebuilt the culture in the locker room, because the Knicks didn't just lose for a long time, right? Like, they like lost in fantastical ways in just these outrageous ways in. In Amari punching a fire hydrant or. Or, you know, Isaiah Thomas doing Isaiah. Not fire hydrant, fire extinguisher. Not a hydrant. That's wild.
- [06:22]
Alex Spears
To punch a hydrant that would be really. Well, you have to get down low, right?
- [06:26]
Fred Katz
And if you're that tall, it's like
- [06:28]
Andrew
an up, it's like an uppercut, you know, Right.
- [06:31]
Fred Katz
But you got. It would have to be like a Tiger woods style celebration in order to punch.
- [06:36]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah.
- [06:37]
Fred Katz
Fire hydrant, fire extinguisher or, you know, the Isaiah Thomas things are all the crazy James Dolan stories or whatever else. There was always chaos that followed around the organization night. I thought it deserved to be chronicled. Kind of how they, as an organization reestablished stability and competence with across multiple verticals of the organization in the front office, in the coaching staff and in the locker room. And I think the main people, you know, I have a lot about Jalen Brunson, I have a lot about Tibbs, I have a lot about Mike Brown, I have a lot about, you know, all the many people who help kind of make their front office what it is and the ways that they tried to build on the margins and a bunch of stories about how they tried to do it and that kind of stuff. On top of that, it's a team whose story isn't really told because they don't want it to be told. They don't do media access. They're the only front office in the league that has never done a solo press conference with the Media. They've been there since 2020. Lamro's been there for six years. He's never done a solo press conference with independent media, ever. He's done two in group settings and the last one of those was in September of 2021. So this, there's a lot to be told that just like, isn't out there, you know, and so I wanted to be able to tell that I think it's their incredibly fascinating organization.
- [07:59]
Alex Spears
As you've been doing the research, do you have any favorite sliding doors moments that alter this timeline? Because I always think about the Pacers giving that offer sheet to deandre Ayton and how different the last few years would have looked if the Suns didn't match it. Are there any good sliding doors moments with this next team?
- [08:16]
Fred Katz
You know, it's funny you use the phrase sliding doors and it's funny that I'm talking to two OKC people because I have a chapter that I've written already that the working title for the chapter is Sliding Doors. And it's about Isaiah Hartenstein and all about him leaving in 2024 free agency for Oklahoma City and how much that changed everything in the organization, how much that changed how they went after everything. Because that was the summer of 2024. And that's when Hartenstein says he's gonna go. The Knicks are capped at how much they are able to pay him. They wanted to retain him really badly. He really wanted to come back. But the Knicks were capped at how much they could pay him because of early bird rules, which I don't have to fully explain right now. Just know they're capped at four years. 72 and a half million was what they could offer him. And Oklahoma City went way over. They went way over. On average annual value. They went way over, period. And they were a really good team. And so the Knicks weren't retaining Hartenstein. And then what happens is Mitchell Robinson, who is hurt turns out is going to miss more time to start the year. And they had already made the Bridges trade and they're down to like, they don't have a reliable seven footer. They just don't have one. Like Julius Randle was going to have to start at center and it's a week to go before the season starts because Mitchell Robinson is out and Hartenstein has left. And that's when they're like, call Minnesota about Cat. Let's see what happens there. And they start canvassing the league and they eventually land on Cat. And if Hartenstein is still there, I mean, I Don't think the Cat trade happens. I don't think a lot of these other things happen and we might be looking at a completely different team than the one that they have now. I don't know for sure. You know, I asked some people in report, in reporting the book, like, does the Bridges trade happen if Hartenstein is still there? And I never got a material answer either way because I think it was just like they knew Hartenstein was going to go and it was never discussed in some sort of concrete kind of way. Like they would have done this if he was here or they wouldn't have done this if he was here. It was just like, okay, well this thing is now presenting itself. Go get Mikhail Bridges. But I think Hartenstein leaving kind of changed everything because he was so important for them. He was so big for them. Him and Mitchell Robinson had a really good thing is, you know, just 48 minutes of rim protection and the dynamic of the team totally changes with Carl Anthony Towns there compared to Hartenstein. They're just stylistically totally different players.
- [10:49]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah. And the Thunder don't win the title and like all these things, like change as a result of Hartenstein choosing OKC.
- [10:59]
Fred Katz
Yeah, yeah, that's a good 100%. Yeah. I mean, a decision Ty Lawson would not approve of.
- [11:06]
Andrew
He'd rather do a lot of things, a lot of things than do it as a Hartenstein did.
- [11:11]
Fred Katz
Some might say anything.
- [11:15]
Andrew
Some might say this. This era is of the Knicks has been marked by several franchise changing moves like hiring Leon Rose, signing Gila Brunson, trading for cat. Are there any smaller moves made during this period that you think are underrated for how important they were for this team's eventual success?
- [11:34]
Fred Katz
Yeah, there are a few. My. So. So if we're talking about like smaller moves but still like legit guys. The Dante DiVincenzo contract was so big for them because they signed him for four years less than the mid level exception. Four years at like 11, 11 million a year and he comes out and turns out to be like a legitimately good starting shooting guard who will fire away from anywhere, play defense, can do some stuff off the dribble if you need it, and play by the end of that year, which is his only year in New York, which it doesn't really feel like he was a one year Nick because he made such an impact on that team and that organization from like a cultural standpoint. He was so important to their locker room. He, by the end of that year, he's the second leading scorer in the playoffs. Because everyone is getting hurt in the 2024 playoffs and they beat Philadelphia in round one. He has one of the iconic modern day Knicks moments in Game 2 of that Philadelphia series where he hits a game winning three against the Sixers and what was one of the greatest games I've ever covered and, you know, has a great series against Indiana which they end up losing because they just cannot stay healthy. And they drop it in seven. And they're stuck with. Well, I shouldn't say they're stuck with DiVincenzo. They are. They now get to have DiVincenzo for this well below market number. And that's also what lands them Carl Anthony Towns, because they were trying to trade for Kat. They were trying to do Randall and like Mitchell Robinson, but Minnesota didn't want to do that. DiVincenzo was the sticking point in those organizations. So Minnesota came really close to signing DiVincenzo that same summer that he signed with the Knicks. They came really close to signing him and they felt like they had him in the bag. And then he ended up deciding on the Knicks and so they kind of continued to chase after him. They were like, okay, we couldn't give him the first time. Let's get them now. And the thing that put that deal over the top was the Knicks willingness to eventually include Dante Dzo.
- [13:47]
Andrew
Wow.
- [13:48]
Fred Katz
And the Wolves. During their negotiations, the Wolves were pessimistic. The Knicks were going to do it. They did not think the Knicks were going to actually put DiVincenzo into the trade. They thought it was just going to kind of not happen because the Knicks had hit up the Wolves so many times over the years and been like, you know, we're interested in Cat. They're like, okay, well, if you're interested in Cat, why don't you make us an offer? They'd be like, ah, we'll get back to you. And then they wouldn't really happen. It was, it was like with the, it's like the energy of like that fifth grader. He's got a crush on another kid in school. So he, so he passes notes across the class like, do you like me? Yes. No. Maybe. It's like, okay, but you can do anything about it. No. You're in fifth grade. You're not going to do anything. And that's, that's kind of what the Knicks were doing with Kat and the Wolves for years. And then eventually they were like, you know what? I'm at my first social. It's time to, it's time to ask the Wolves to Dance, you know, and, and that was kind of the way it went down with the back and forth for years. And Minnesota didn't think that DiVincenzo was going to be in there. I think DiVincenzo's one. I think the Josh Hart trade is one that doesn't get talked about a ton. I mean, it was Cam Reddish who never played, and a very late first rounder that was heavily protected and wasn't going to be anything other. I guess it was just so late in the year that it wasn't going to be anything other than the twenties. So that's, that's another one that I think was, was really good. And then like, they've done some good. You don't see a lot of their drafted talent on the team because they traded a lot of it. But like Quinn Grimes, the 25th pick, good pick. Emmanuel Quickley, 25th pick, good pick.
- [15:33]
Andrew
And that draft is a great pick. Yeah, yeah.
- [15:36]
Fred Katz
And Deuce McBride, second round, they've done a good job identifying Mitchell Robinson, second round, different front office. It was the previous front office, but obviously a great second round pick. They've done, they've done a great job identifying talents in presumably flawed or unique kinds of players. You know, like, it's easy to look at a guy who's super athletic and can jump high and run fast and shoot well and be like, well, you know what? I think Victor Wempanyama is going to be really good. It's easy to do that. It's a little harder to be like, let's, let's like put a lot of eggs in the Jalen Brunson basket, you know, where, you know, Brunson was a second rounder. Like, other than Cat, there's not really anyone on this team who was like a high draft pick. Bridges was a lottery pick. But, you know, you look like the Hartenstein signing is another one former second round pick who could have signed a lot of different places and the Knicks ended up bringing him in. Like, they've done a good job identifying talent that, you know, isn't necessarily like in your face talent and, and finding these sort of unique ways to, to bring guys in and have them succeed in their ecosystem.
- [17:01]
Alex Spears
So the Knicks are going to end up having a full eight days off before the final start on Wednesday. Do you know if they're approaching this long layoff any differently compared to the similarly long layoff before the Eastern Conference finals?
- [17:14]
Fred Katz
They, OG and Anobi said today that they are doing the same stuff. Okay, so I, so we can expect
- [17:20]
Alex Spears
a big 20 point comeback in game one of the finals.
- [17:24]
Fred Katz
Exactly. No question. I do think it's funny. Knicks are playing so well that all of their guys are talking about, like, yeah, you know, we're, we're doing the same stuff, but we want to make sure that, like, we maintain that focus. We, we don't get rusty. Like, we see, we see what happened last time we had the long layoff. We can't let that happen again. I do think it's funny that, like, man, how quickly do things change, right? Like, it used to be that if the Knicks won a basketball game, there was, there were riots in New York, the Knicks won a game in October, people were outside screaming bing bong. And going viral for it. If they want a game in October, and now the Knicks sweep in the conference finals, and they're like, well, we can't have that happen again. That was just not good enough. We need to make sure that we stay locked in this time. And they're obviously referencing the fact that they fell down 22 points in game one, Cleveland. They also came back from down 21 point, 22 points in one of the greatest postseason comebacks of all time. And I'm sure they were rusty. They were rusty. They were playing terribly those first three quarters. I just, you know, it's a, it's a funny, it's a funny little change. Like, it, it's not lost on me that this was an organization that, like, it used to be. Like, you know, when Tibbs first came into The Knicks in 20, 20, 21, they had been under.500 for eight consecutive years and not made the playoffs, and they were a disaster. Tibs comes in year one and you have tibs, things are going to be serious. You're going to be all business and you are going to win as many games as you should. Like, as many, whatever your ceiling is on number of wins. Like, that's what you're going to do when you have tips just basically every single time, especially in, like, year one. It's just what he does. He comes in, you're just going to win. And that's what happened. He came into the Knicks and they go 41 and 31 with, like, Alfred Payton as their starting point guard and just not a lot of talent on that team. And they got 41 and 31 and they lose in the first round of the playoffs. And the vibe of that team is like, man, what an unbelievable jump start. They made it to the first round of the playoffs. Unbelievable. And even that was like, like the way that the bar has moved since then. Is really something like. I think they are very. They're very focused on four more wins.
- [19:45]
Andrew
So we got news this week that Mitchell Robinson broke the pinky on his shooting hand, but plans to play in game one of the finals wearing a brace. Robinson's minutes have been down in these playoffs. Teams are sending him to the free throw line more where he's currently shooting 30% and now have a brace on that shooting hand. How big of a concern do you think it is for the Knicks heading into the finals?
- [20:13]
Fred Katz
It's definitely a concern. Like he's a really good player. I. Okay. I talked about Andrew. You listened to my podcast.
- [20:20]
Andrew
I guess I did. I did.
- [20:23]
Fred Katz
So I will ask you the same question I asked on my podcast. I'm going to turn this around. I'm actually going to ask Alice. Alec. Alice. I'm going to ask Alex because he's.
- [20:33]
Alex Spears
Yeah, let's get her in here. Alice, get in here.
- [20:36]
Andrew
Come on in here. Time to ask you a question about fingers. Alice.
- [20:41]
Fred Katz
Go ask Alice. Is that a book? I think it's a book.
- [20:44]
Alex Spears
Yeah. That was a. A newspaper column, right?
- [20:46]
Fred Katz
Is it, Is it something Go Ask Alice was something that I read when I was like in middle school, but I don't remember.
- [20:52]
Alex Spears
It's a book by Beatrice Starks. Is that right? Beatrice Sparks.
- [20:57]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [20:58]
Fred Katz
Sparks classic.
- [21:00]
Alex Spears
Oh, wow. It's a book about a teenage girl who develops a drug addiction at age 15 and runs away from home on a journey of self destructive escapism.
- [21:07]
Fred Katz
Well, things just got heavy.
- [21:10]
Andrew
Anyway, I'm gonna ask then. Tense.
- [21:12]
Fred Katz
I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna make it lighter right now. Alex, I would like you in terms of. I would like you to power rank
- [21:20]
Alex Spears
the power rack my fingers, the five
- [21:22]
Fred Katz
fingers, based on how important they are to rebounding in traffic.
- [21:28]
Alex Spears
Rebounding. Okay. Thumb number one.
- [21:30]
Fred Katz
Okay.
- [21:32]
Alex Spears
I mean, it's the foundation.
- [21:34]
Fred Katz
Sure.
- [21:34]
Alex Spears
It's the thickest.
- [21:35]
Fred Katz
It's what separates us from the animals.
- [21:38]
Alex Spears
That's right.
- [21:42]
Andrew
Wow.
- [21:42]
Alex Spears
This is because I'm thinking like, I'm thinking width, you know, I'm thinking of the extremes. Do I go pinky number two? Is that crazy to do? It's not crazy unless you have a really strong ring finger. I might go pinky number two because I'm thinking width. And then I would go middle finger and I'd go pointer finger and then ring finger.
- [22:07]
Fred Katz
I think ring finger is consensus last.
- [22:10]
Alex Spears
Okay. Okay, good.
- [22:12]
Fred Katz
I think everyone agrees the ring finger is the least important finger. I think that's why you put the Ring on it.
- [22:17]
Andrew
Is that the. Is that the one that Bertons is missing?
- [22:20]
Fred Katz
Yes, I think so.
- [22:23]
Andrew
Okay. He agrees. Worthless.
- [22:25]
Fred Katz
Yes, worthless. I mean, look at Bertanzi can. He can drain every single shot.
- [22:30]
Andrew
Mm.
- [22:31]
Fred Katz
He pulls up from half court like it's no problem. Anyway, I don't have a point. I just wanted you to power rank fingers.
- [22:42]
Andrew
I mean, there is a point that it's like this. This could be a big deal for a guy who's one of the best rebounders in the NB A.
- [22:48]
Fred Katz
It's the second. That's the second most important finger according to Alex Spears's estimate.
- [22:53]
Alex Spears
Wow. Now, what did other people say? Where did Pinky get power ranked by others?
- [22:58]
Fred Katz
I've only asked one other person, and he also put Pinky second.
- [23:02]
Alex Spears
Really?
- [23:02]
Fred Katz
Yeah. Andrew, what do you say?
- [23:05]
Andrew
Yeah, I agree that Pinky is definitely second. You. You try to make the argument no
- [23:10]
Fred Katz
love for the index finger.
- [23:11]
Alex Spears
I was thinking about it, but I don't.
- [23:14]
Andrew
I mean, let's say you're just missing your pinky. It would be really hard to corral rebounds. I think if you're missing your pointer finger, I still feel like you could. You could easily like grip the ball to the other hand.
- [23:28]
Fred Katz
Right?
- [23:28]
Andrew
Because that's what you're trying to do is like grip the ball to the other hand.
- [23:30]
Fred Katz
True. I think the pointer is the pointer and the three middle fingers are more important for.
- [23:36]
Alex Spears
For shooting, yes,
- [23:40]
Andrew
they are. But for rebounding, for Mitchell Robinson purposes, Pinky pretty important.
- [23:46]
Alex Spears
So you think it won't hurt his free throws?
- [23:49]
Fred Katz
I don't think there's much to hurt his free throws, to be honest.
- [23:52]
Andrew
Hey, maybe it helps.
- [23:55]
Alex Spears
You know, Any chance it helps?
- [23:57]
Fred Katz
Look, I'll tell you this. I'll tell you two Josh Hart stories. The first one is before this year. So Josh Hart injured his ring finger. Not important. Who cares? Injured his ring finger in the playoffs last year, had surgery. Surgery didn't go well. Needed another surgery. Decided he was going to put off surgery because he didn't want to miss time during the season. He decided he was going to put off surgery and have it after this season. He's been playing with like, I don't know if it's a brace, a splint, whatever you want to call it. A thing. So has a thing on his finger. He's been playing with it all year and he just had the best three point shooting season of his career.
- [24:39]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [24:41]
Fred Katz
I will also say that probably three years ago, Josh Hart was in this terrible shooting slump and at halftime of a game in Milwaukee he chucked up a buzzer beater shot that was like from far out, and it went in total luck. And then he hit all of his threes in the second half, and he was just out of the slump after that. And when I. And he was dealing with a wrist injury at the time, which is why he was in the shooting slump, and I asked him what happened in that second half, and he said that when he threw up that, like, end of court, like, end of quarter buzzer beater at the end of the second quarter, his wrist snapped back into place and then he was just good to shoot from then on out. And I was like, I. My follow up question, it really did follow. This really was my follow up question. My follow up question was, Josh, I think you just described the plot of Rookie of the year
- [25:44]
Andrew
Garden hoser. Wow.
- [25:49]
Fred Katz
And so again, I have no point. But it's nice to know those stories exist, huh? Will it help Mitchell Robinson's shooting? I don't think it's really going to hurt Mitchell Robinson's shooting that. It's. It's more about just like, number one. Is he going to be able to just like, as Andrew put it, like, corral those rebounds? Are you going to be able to actually hold on to it? Because, like, I don't know. Is. Is. Is. Is the splint that you have to wear, the brace you have to wear? Like, is that. Is that slippery? Is that going to take away, like, is that going to be a friction disadvantage?
- [26:26]
Andrew
You got to have a. There's got to be a grippy splint, right?
- [26:29]
Fred Katz
Can you have a grippy thing? That sounds like cheating. That's like out of the replacements when he's just putting the sticky stuff on.
- [26:37]
Andrew
Yeah. But also having one that's slippery is like, also not cool.
- [26:45]
Fred Katz
But I think of a splint and that's slippery. Metal is slippery. Gauze is slippery.
- [26:52]
Andrew
Is. Is like sometimes the wraps aren't always that slippery.
- [26:56]
Fred Katz
True.
- [26:58]
Andrew
I don't know. You have to investigate that for the book.
- [27:02]
Fred Katz
That's true. I could have. Well, the whole book is about Mitchell Robinson's pinky.
- [27:07]
Alex Spears
So will you. Will you.
- [27:09]
Fred Katz
I'll have like three chapters. Oh, you know what? I will. I think I'm gonna ask him. I. I think after Game 1, assuming he plays in that game and he's made available in media, I think I'm gonna ask him after that game to power rank the five most important fingers.
- [27:24]
Alex Spears
I've thought about it more. I'd like to switch my three and four. So I'm going pointer finger three, middle finger four.
- [27:30]
Andrew
Yeah, I think that's correct. I think that's correct.
- [27:33]
Fred Katz
Yeah.
- [27:34]
Alex Spears
I've been doing some, some air motions over here, and I've. I've decided I don't want to switch that.
- [27:38]
Andrew
Yep.
- [27:38]
Fred Katz
The other part of it is, like, pain tolerance too. Like. Yeah, like, it's like you just broke your finger and had surgery. It's. It's probably not going to be comfortable. And if it's like an excruciating amount of pain, then that might just affect the way that you're playing. Even if it doesn't have, like, you know, even if it's just like, wow, I'm in a lot of pain and so my mind is on the pain.
- [28:03]
Alex Spears
Yeah.
- [28:04]
Fred Katz
And guys are going to be swiping at your hand every time they can.
- [28:09]
Alex Spears
So. In general, the Knicks fan base seems to prefer, or at least at the beginning of this Western Conference final, seems to prefer a potential spurs matchup over the Thunder heading Into this Game 7 on Saturday. But given OKC's ongoing injury issues, do you still think the spurs are the best matchup from a Knicks perspective?
- [28:28]
Fred Katz
I do, I do. Even with, you know, Dub still dealing with all this stuff and, and A.J. mitchell, you know, not being there or not being A.J. mitchell, I. I do. I think the Knicks, assuming that Mitchell Robinson is somewhat the normal version of himself, I think the Knicks are well positioned to guard Victor Wembanyama because they can give him a look with a big. With Mitchell Robinson guarding him. And I don't know how many wings in existence are like, better Wembanyama defenders than OJ Anunoby. He has done a really good job on him and the opportunities that he's had on him in the regular season. And that's just like when you go down the checklist of stuff that you want a wing to be good at defensively, when they guard Wembanyama, it's just like, well, that describes O.J. nobe, that describes O.J. novi. He's really, really good. And Anobi, I think he might be the best wing in the league at when he's guarding a big pushing wings out towards the perimeter before they catch the entry pass. And so much of guarding Wembanyama. Like, you always want to make sure that a post guy can't do his work early, but it's different when it's Jokic than when it's Wembanyama. Wembanyama. I think that's way more important for. Than anybody else because how many times do you see him when he gets deep post positioning like it's over. Like Anunoby will guard Jokic, he'll guard Embiid. Like those guys will get the ball down low and they might turn around and throw in a layup. They might turn around and hit a little baby hook shot. They might turn around and all of a sudden command the double team and then kick for a three. Wembanyama just turns around and just gently places the ball into the basket.
- [30:20]
Andrew
Too tall.
- [30:22]
Fred Katz
Like nobody's there. Yeah, and that is such a tremendous trait. And he also can be pushed a little bit easier than someone like Jokic or Embiid who are like massive in every way, you know. Whereas Wemby is still kind of scrawny and can be pushed out before getting post positioning by like a great defender. And I think that'll be a really important thing for, for him and for Mitchell Robinson. They can give him multiple looks. I also think the spurs lack of three point shooting is a concern. The Thunder's lack of creators will be a concern if Dub and A.J. mitchell can't play. But I think the spurs lack of three point shooting is something that I'm like, I wonder how that's going to be made up because the Knicks are just shooting the life out of these teams. They are just making every single shot and I don't know if they'll keep hitting at this rate, but the spurs are going to have to hit the three ball. The reality is Castle is is not there as a three point shooter yet. Harper is not there as a three point shooter yet. Champagne has struggled in the Western Conference finals, but that obviously can change. He's capable of getting, of getting really hot when Banyama is right now. Like it's remarkable to watch him shoot because he hits very tough shots and he's 74 and seeing somebody that fluid at 74 is insane. But you know by the numbers he's, he's a league average three point shooter at this point. You know, you account for the fact that he's taking difficult shots and he's a better than average shooter. But it's not like he's like automatic if you leave him open for a spot up or anything like that. Like they are, they're not overridden with three point shooting. To be clear, they're an awesome team. Like these are the last two teams you want to play if you're in the X. But that's what the finals are.
- [32:12]
Andrew
Yeah. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. We come back, we're going to talk about the Chad Holren story that you wrote and preview Game seven of the Western Conference Finals. We'll be right back.
- [32:25]
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- [34:18]
Andrew
And we're back after that quick break. Fred, you wrote about Chet Holmgren this week, talking to him about his mindset toward basketball and his career. You previously had another article kind of breaking down film with Chet. What makes Chet an interesting basketball subject to you?
- [34:39]
Fred Katz
I think the fact that he number one, I just really enjoy watching him play. Like I just really enjoy watching him play. If Wemby didn't exist, we'd be like, well this is, this is, this is a one of one dude. You know, in terms of the body type and the shooting, the ability to attack a close out the defense. But Wemby exists. So we're like that's a guy. You know, that's how I feel like if, yeah, if Jokic didn't exist we would be losing our minds over Domas Sabonis. We'd be like oh my goodness, this big man averaged eight assists a game. I don't think anyone even knows that. Demonte Savona Saver Jade Assist a game at one point, I don't think anyone has any idea, but if Jokic didn't exist, we'd be losing our minds about him averaging eight assists a game. You know, just when once you see it, you're like, okay, well, next thing. I. I love watching Chet play. I think he has a very. He has a very, like, intellectual game. I. I called him intellectual in the story. And, and not because I was, you know, talking about, you know, the Spanish Inquisition with him, but. But because I think he's like a basketball intellectual. You can tell from. And. And I had an idea of this, which is part of why I wanted to do that film story, too. You can tell from watching his game how thoughtful of a player he is, how well studied of a player he is, how good of a team defender he is, how good of a positional defender he is, how where he is of other players tendencies and that kind of stuff. And I like watching guys like that. And I was just interested to. To learn more. And then our conversation kind of got into this and I. And I kind of learned how self aware he is as a basketball player and as a person. I thought it would be interesting as a story.
- [36:45]
Alex Spears
Did talking to him and understanding him a little better give you any insight into how he's played in this Western Conference finals? Because reading the article and then watching him play, there are stretches where I feel like Thunder fans might wish he had a little more ego, especially when the team has been struggling with injuries so much.
- [37:04]
Fred Katz
Yes, I think that's probably true. I think his inclination is to, like, his default is to do whatever the best basketball thing is. And like, when we were. When we were talking, there was. When we did the film session story, there was. There was one play that I showed him where he had a. He had a block on a play and he had told me he thought it was a bad play by him. I was like, why? And he. He kind of went back and he showed me on the play. Well, he was like, I'm hanging my teammates out to dry if I don't get the block. Like, look at the positioning. And we paused it and we look at it and it's like, this guy can cut, this guy can shoot. You guys have to rotate. You know, your guys have to rotate like crazy. He's like, I'm hanging my teammate out to dry. Like, I was like, I just. I just went there and I really probably shouldn't have went. And then I went to Mark Dignol after and I asked him, oh, we've got breaking News. I went to Mark Dignalt after we've got. You want to talk about. Oh, the 76ers hiring Mike Gansey? According to Shams.
- [38:12]
Andrew
Yeah. What do you think about that?
- [38:14]
Fred Katz
What do you think about that?
- [38:16]
Andrew
I don't have a ton of thoughts about that. I don't know Mike that well. Do you know Mike?
- [38:19]
Fred Katz
He's got a great reputation. He is supposed to be very smart. I feel like Alex has thoughts. He's making a face.
- [38:28]
Alex Spears
Oh, no, I have no thoughts on Mike Gansey.
- [38:34]
Andrew
I mean, it's interesting that they, that they pick somebody that's like. Because, I mean, they went with Daryl Morey who's like one of the most like well known basketball executives on the planet last time. You know, the fact that they're going with a guy from the Cavaliers that is, I mean, I bet you 99 of NBA fans, 99.9999999 NBA fans could not pick him out of a lineup. You know, like, I just think it's. It is interesting that the, the Sixers would do that. I just think to me, like, that's, that would be my only thought after going with Maury.
- [39:12]
Fred Katz
Alex, would you like to power rank Mike Gansey's fingers?
- [39:17]
Alex Spears
I'd like to talk about the use of the phrase breaking news, because when you said that to me, I was like, oh, my gosh, what happened? And I see you staring at your. I'm like, oh, what could this be? I'm going through everything in my head. Everything in my head and then I hear Mike Gansey. I feel like you got to give us a little heads up that, okay, yes, it's breaking news and that it literally was just announced, I would say announced news. We have some announced news. I think breaking was a little much there.
- [39:46]
Fred Katz
Well, I'm just phrasing it because Shams said breaking.
- [39:52]
Alex Spears
Yes.
- [39:53]
Fred Katz
I'm just going with Shams. Anyway. Chad Holmgren.
- [39:57]
Alex Spears
Chet Holmgren. Hey, I want to ask you.
- [39:59]
Fred Katz
Yes.
- [40:00]
Alex Spears
You, you. One of the, like, running themes in that article was Presti popping in at various points saying elite intangibles about some guy on the team. It was just a, it was a fun. I was just imagining his head poking in every few paragraphs. Elite intangibles. Because that has been a, a big idea with the Thunder that they're acquiring these guys who have elite intangibles, which is something I think for fans, especially like fans who are into the draft. Like, how do you possibly evaluate this as fans? There's no way to do it. You kind of Just have to trust it. Throughout your career.
- [40:34]
Andrew
Do you.
- [40:34]
Alex Spears
Are there any, like, elite intangible all stars you can think of of just like, being in the locker room with guys? You kind of mentioned Dante DiVincenzo. Would you consider him like, elite intangibles?
- [40:44]
Fred Katz
Definitely, 100%. Both the guys who I mentioned from the 24 Knicks team. Hardenstein, too, another elite intangibles guy. I. It's a great question. If we're going like, I mean, some of them are stars, you know, I would say Jalen Brunson has elite intangibles.
- [41:06]
Alex Spears
Yeah, sure. Yeah.
- [41:07]
Fred Katz
That's how he became a star. You know, I would say it's probably a lot of the people who you would expect, because I don't think. I don't think the trick is identifying the elite intangibles once they've already arrived as NBA players. You know what I mean? Like, I can see, you know, the anecdote that I have in there is about big man Jalen Williams, not J Dub J William.
- [41:33]
Alex Spears
Right.
- [41:33]
Fred Katz
Saying that he has elite intangibles. And Case and Wallace saying he has elite intangibles. We can see now that Case and Wallace has elite intangibles. Who's second team, all defense. We can see now that Alex Caruso has elite intangibles. What's funny is the Thunder chose Samaj Christian over him.
- [41:50]
Andrew
They had. They had him in house.
- [41:51]
Fred Katz
Yeah, they had him in house. And they were like, even, Even the ones who are looking for elite intangibles sometimes are like, you miss it. You know, what's. What's hard, I think, is identifying the elite intangibles before. Before they have become tangible, you know, like. Like Case and at some point your intangibles become tangible to some degree. You can. You can see them in games, even if they're not reflected in the points and the rebounds and the assist numbers. Like, they're. They're reflected in your performance and you can see it. But I think what's really tough is identifying those kinds of guys out of the draft. And the Thunder, I know for sure and you guys know for sure have gone out of their way to go after a very specific type of brain. They. There's. There's, I think a. You know, it used to be with like, the Russ kd, the Russ Katie hardened team and that kind of stuff. The Thunder were like, really. They had a tight. They were really obsessed with long, athletic wings who couldn't shoot yet. Right. They're just like, there's like, bring in Andre Roberson, trade for Jeremy Grant, bring in Josh Eustace. Like, just bring in all these dudes who fit this model, and they believe we can teach guys how to shoot. And that's what we're going to. We're going to bank on. They still have a type, but it's a different type now. Now their type is quick decision makers. You need to be like, it's a prerequisite. I phrased this to somebody with okc and they. It kind of corrected me, but I'm sticking to it. Like, I think it's a prerequisite to be able to play in okc. You need to be a quick decision maker on both sides of the floor. You need to be able to read the game and then make a quick decision right away in order to work in that offensive or defensive team. Like, they, they move too quickly offensively, they move too quickly defensively. They rely on too many quick reads, too many concepts instead of, you know, similar to, like, you know, I'd say the same thing about Golden State's offense. There is a, you know, I'm going to use the word intellectual again. There is a. The intellectual floor you have to be at in order to thrive in Golden State's offense. And I think similarly about the way that OKC runs things, especially defensively. And that's why a guy like Hartenstein or a guy like Lou Dort or a guy like Shay, these guys are all Chad Holmgren. These guys are all very, very, very smart players. Caruso. These guys are all ball watchers. You would be shocked by how many NBA players don't just, like, sit around watching basketball all the time, you know, like, you'd be shocked by how many players, like, don't really watch that much ball. Like, they just. They watch the scout they have for the upcoming game. That's how they consume it, and that's it. But, like, you know, like, when I covered, like, John Wall in Washington, John Wall would watch, like four games at once. He had four TVs in his living room. He'd watch four games at once. And somehow he's like a savant. I mean, I'm. I'm so glad that people are now starting to see it now that he's doing media. And people in the public are now starting to see what I got to see when I covered him. Because people are like, wow, how shocking is it that John Wall's good at media? I'm like, literally the least surprising thing in the world because he's one of my favorite players. I recovered to tuck ball with because he would go home and just like, have four basketball games on, and he would somehow absorb everything that was happening, you know, coverages. And he'd be like, this happened with eight minutes left in the third quarter of the magic game. And I would just walk up to him pregame and be like, you watched the so and so game last night? He'd be like, oh, yeah. And we'd just go through the whole. The whole game. And it was so. It was so cool to be able to have those conversations. And there are some players who are like that. And then there are other players who I've covered who are way more common than the kinds like John Wall. There are other players who I've covered who, like, aren't really ball watchers. Thunder have a lot of ball watchers. I think. I don't mean that as like watching the ball on defense, but a lot of guys were going home and watching basketball who know the league well, who know players tendencies, who know teams plays before you even walk into the shoot around. And I think that is a very important thing. And I think that's part of, like, the elite intangibles, to be honest.
- [46:09]
Andrew
I think that paired with character, too, is, like, outrageously important to the Thunder.
- [46:15]
Alex Spears
Well, that. That opening anecdote about them all being so excited about Jamal Murray scoring 53 points when they were on the plane. I thought that was such a cool moment because, like, it's. It's a big game, you know, 53 points, but it's not like it's Bam's 83. You know, like, we see 50 point games. And they were. Chet being, like, so excited to announce to everyone that, oh, my gosh, did you see what Jamal Murray did?
- [46:37]
Andrew
So funny. That was very cool. That's so funny. So the spurs are a game away from being in the NBA finals. They're miles ahead of where we thought they could be. It's not, like, totally surprising that they're here. I think that a lot of people, even through a few games of round two, are like, oh, like the Thunder and Spurs are the two best teams in the NBA. I think a lot of people believe that. But has anything about this run surprised you about San Antonio and, like, kind of who they've become?
- [47:13]
Fred Katz
You know, it's funny. Like, I'm a. I'm a big believer in you have to lose before you can win.
- [47:20]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [47:21]
Fred Katz
At the same time, my answer to that question is kind of no. I can't think of anything about this first team that has surprised me on this. That has impressed me.
- [47:28]
Walden University Sponsor Voice
Sure.
- [47:29]
Fred Katz
A ton of things. But yeah, I'm not really after watching what they did during the regular season, like, I'm not surprised by how good Victor Mumbanyama is and how playoff ready he is. I'm. Yeah, I'm not.
- [47:43]
Andrew
Wendy hasn't surprised me. Castle hasn't surprised me. Harper has surprised me at like how ready like a rookie is in the conference finals. Like, that's. I mean, that's pretty unusual.
- [47:54]
Fred Katz
Yeah. I'll tell you what.
- [47:55]
Alex Spears
Harper.
- [47:55]
Fred Katz
Harper surprised me this season. And then once I watched them play all season, I became like, this might sound crazy because this rookie class was so incredible and Conquer Nipple is amazing and Cooper Flag is amazing and Vijay Edgecombe is amazing and Ace Bailey is really good. Like there are just a lot of. Yeah, they're just a lot of. Cedric Coward is. Is really good and like there are a lot of guys who are really good. I. I think Harper has a real chance to be the best player from this rookie class.
- [48:30]
Andrew
Yeah, I agree.
- [48:31]
Fred Katz
He is so great. The thing that surprised me this season with Harper, because I'm not. I'm not a college basketball guy and I'm like, I'm going to learn these guys as they come in and I'm like, how. How was Harper not thought of as an awesome defender? What was happening at Rutgers that he was not thought of as an awesome defender? He's. He is that dude. Guards plays so hard. He's so competitive. He is so talented. If he gets consistency with the jump shot, he is going to be something else. He's just a complete and utter attacker. He's constantly attacking. It's. It's amazing. It's amazing to watch. I think he's excellent. He surprised me in that aspect, but I'm not even so shocked that, that he's been this good in the conference finals because he's just man, like, he. He's. He's something else.
- [49:26]
Alex Spears
So the spurs, they dominated The Thunder Game 6, 118 to 91. Do you have any feel for this series? Heading into game seven, which has swung wildly back and forth throughout.
- [49:40]
Fred Katz
My headphones died.
- [49:43]
Andrew
His headphones died. He has no feel whatsoever for this series. Fred is so, so far out of being able. So far out from Be able to feel attack. Alice is asking you, do you have a feel what's going to happen in game seven in this series?
- [49:59]
Fred Katz
Oh, yeah, yeah. I know exactly what's gonna happen, but I can't. I can't tell you.
- [50:04]
Andrew
Oh, come.
- [50:05]
Fred Katz
I can't tell you. It'll throw off Poly Market. You know, I can't talk.
- [50:10]
Alex Spears
Does it influence you that the, the corgi who predicts the series. He's predicted it perfect. So far he has the spurs in seven.
- [50:17]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [50:18]
Alex Spears
And then also I just saw a stat that players whose birthdays are on game seven are undefeated. And Harrison Barnes turns 34.
- [50:26]
Fred Katz
How is that even trackable?
- [50:30]
Alex Spears
Don't know. Don't even know if it's true.
- [50:31]
Andrew
I was gonna say is that even true?
- [50:34]
Fred Katz
There's no way that's true.
- [50:36]
Alex Spears
Why would, why, what do you mean no way?
- [50:38]
Fred Katz
Because I just don't believe that people went back to. How. I just don't believe that people went back to every game seven and checked the birthdays of everyone who ever played in the game.
- [50:52]
Andrew
Check, check the birthday man, check the birthday. You'll find out.
- [50:55]
Fred Katz
And I also don't believe that someone who is good enough at computer coding actually still, even though you're that brilliant to be able to know how to do that, still spent the time to go and waste their time and, and, and find out that information.
- [51:12]
Andrew
Well, does this sway you at all? The Thunder lost to the spurs on Christmas Day, which is Thomas Sorber's birthday, but he couldn't play because he tore his acl. Does that sway you?
- [51:22]
Alex Spears
Does that change anything?
- [51:24]
Fred Katz
It does, it does, it does. Okay, but, but I'll tell you this. Still can't say who I got. I mean, look, I, I picked, I picked Thunder and seven before the series. So. Yeah, I guess I'll stick with Thunder in seven. Like, I think these are two incredible teams and home court for game seven matters. But Thunder are going to have to find a way. Like sometimes they look like they can really conjure up offense and they get hot and sometimes they just look like they are.
- [51:57]
Alex Spears
Sometimes they don't score for eight minutes.
- [51:59]
Ben Green
Yeah.
- [52:00]
Andrew
Sometimes they allow 20 to nothing runs.
- [52:03]
Alex Spears
Yep.
- [52:04]
Fred Katz
And they're just in desperate need of. Of Dub and A.J. mitchell.
- [52:08]
Alex Spears
Yeah. Which is.
- [52:09]
Andrew
Yeah. It does not appear they will be getting either version that they need of those guys. Aj, it doesn't seem like he's on the verge of playing. And then Dub, who I think is like competitive nature has taken over. Like he just wants to play so desperately and at least wanted to see like what can I contribute to the team. And it was not a lot. Now how much does that change between yesterday and Saturday today? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. My guess is that not a whole lot can change in that short amount of time. With a hamstring. But home court does matter. If you go look at the stats and like the way the Thunder have performed at home versus on the road in this. In this series and in the entire playoffs, it's just much better at home. And so it's. It's why the Thunder have, you know, fought for home court advantage. It was close between them and the spurs, you know, during stretches of the. Of this season, and it's turned out to be outrageously important for okc.
- [53:13]
Alex Spears
All right, Fred, thanks for answering all of our questions. It's now time to play Andrew versus the Beat.
- [53:20]
Andrew
Oops.
- [53:21]
Alex Spears
All Knicks edition. That's right. In honor of the Knicks making the NBA Finals and Fred writing a book about the Knicks. These are eight trivia questions, all about this year's Knicks, mostly about in the playoffs. So, Fred, I'll just ask you for a number between 1 and 8. It'll correspond to a question. If you get it right, you'll get at least two points. If you get it wrong, and you'll have a chance to steal for one. We'll go back and forth till all the questions have been asked and answered. So to start us off, just need a number between 1 and 8.
- [53:49]
Fred Katz
8.
- [53:50]
Alex Spears
The final question.
- [53:52]
Fred Katz
Number 8.
- [53:53]
Alex Spears
Mitchell Robinson is currently shooting 30.2% from the line on 43 attempts. The last player to shoot under 40% from the line in the playoffs on that many attempts did so during the 2021 playoffs. Who was it?
- [54:12]
Fred Katz
2021.
- [54:14]
Alex Spears
2021 playoffs. Under 40% from the line on. They actually took over 70 attempts.
- [54:24]
Andrew
Whoa.
- [54:25]
Alex Spears
This player. Any ideas?
- [54:30]
Fred Katz
I was going to say DeAndre Jordan, but it's not 2021.
- [54:38]
Andrew
I have a. I have a guess.
- [54:40]
Fred Katz
This is why I hate this podcast.
- [54:42]
Alex Spears
What else? Why you? This is the only reason. So you like it. You like it. You just hate it because of this.
- [54:51]
Fred Katz
I hate it. It's the worst. All it does. All it does is have me come on here, pretend to sound like I know what I'm talking about, and then be like, yeah, but you don't know.
- [55:04]
Alex Spears
Do you think we should flip it? Should we do trivia first? Because. So then you have.
- [55:08]
Andrew
No.
- [55:08]
Alex Spears
You can build up, or you leave them with, like, oh, no, it's.
- [55:12]
Fred Katz
No, no, no. It's way better when you. When you tear your guests down. Let's. Let's go. Damn. Who the hell would it be? Andre Roberson. No, wait, why'd you say that like it was a terrible. Oh, that's a horrible guess. 2021.
- [55:29]
Andrew
That's.
- [55:29]
Fred Katz
That's 21.
- [55:30]
Alex Spears
Was he in the league?
- [55:31]
Fred Katz
Nope. I don't know. Definitely wasn't in the league.
- [55:33]
Alex Spears
Okay.
- [55:34]
Andrew
If. If he was, he was on the.
- [55:36]
Alex Spears
The.
- [55:37]
Fred Katz
I was. Yeah.
- [55:38]
Andrew
On the Nets or on like the Spurs G League team.
- [55:41]
Fred Katz
Terrible.
- [55:42]
Andrew
My guess is either correct or really mean.
- [55:46]
Alex Spears
Okay, it's going to be correct.
- [55:49]
Andrew
Ben Simmons.
- [55:50]
Alex Spears
Yes. It's been.
- [55:53]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [55:54]
Fred Katz
Both
- [55:57]
Alex Spears
correct and mean.
- [55:58]
Andrew
Correct and very mean. Number one.
- [56:03]
Alex Spears
Question number one. Cat has two triple doubles in this year's playoffs. Already. Wow. Now, since Walt Frazier had a triple double in the 1972 playoffs, there's only been one other Nick other than Cat to record a triple double in the playoffs. Who was it? So since 1972 to when Cat just did it. One other nick had a triple double. Who was it?
- [56:27]
Andrew
Did Josh Hart do it?
- [56:29]
Alex Spears
Is Josh Hart.
- [56:30]
Andrew
Yes.
- [56:32]
Alex Spears
Last year's playoffs. I can't tell if Fred's frozen or if he's just really sad. Fred, the board is yours.
- [56:49]
Fred Katz
Two
- [56:53]
Alex Spears
Question number two. The Knicks are in the finals for the first time since 1999 when they lost in five to the San Antonio spurs, who could be their finals opponent again if they win game seven. How many three pointers did the Knicks hit in the 99 finals? Now you get to choose who answers first. You can make Andrew answer first and then you go higher, lower. Or you answer first and Andrew go higher, lower. Total numbers of three pointers hit by the Knicks in the 99 finals.
- [57:23]
Fred Katz
I'm going to have Andrew answer first.
- [57:27]
Alex Spears
Andrew. Andrew.
- [57:31]
Andrew
Total number of threes. May made three.
- [57:35]
Alex Spears
Made threes in the five game series against the San Antonio spurs.
- [57:41]
Andrew
Oh, my gosh. 22.
- [57:46]
Alex Spears
All right. Fred, would you go higher or lower than 22?
- [57:56]
Fred Katz
It's a good guess. Larry Johnson hit some threes. Sprewell with a threes. Houston. I'm going to go higher.
- [58:08]
Alex Spears
You're going higher?
- [58:10]
Fred Katz
Yeah.
- [58:10]
Alex Spears
Total number of threes hit by the knicks in the 99 finals.
- [58:17]
Andrew
11.
- [58:19]
Fred Katz
Oh, wow.
- [58:22]
Andrew
What in the.
- [58:23]
Fred Katz
What a time. What a time.
- [58:28]
Alex Spears
Now the. The Spurs. Let's see. The spurs, they hit. They hit 21 in the entire series. So different. Okay, Andrew, three question number three. Mitchell Robinson is shooting 74% from the field in this year's playoffs. The record for highest field goal percentage in a playoff run on at least 50 attempts was accomplished by this player in the 2023 playoffs. Who is it?
- [59:03]
Andrew
Oh, my gosh.
- [59:05]
Alex Spears
Oh, my gosh.
- [59:07]
Andrew
2023 playoffs. Highest field goal percentage on at least 50 attempts. On at least 50 attempts.
- [59:21]
Fred Katz
And I want to say.
- [59:22]
Alex Spears
I want to say he shot 79%.
- [59:28]
Andrew
Well, what year?
- [59:29]
Alex Spears
2023.
- [59:31]
Andrew
2023. Okay. Goodness, this has got to be a big. Lord. I think we lost Freddy. Did we? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, I'll still try to answer this while we try to get him back. Okay. Is this Gobert?
- [60:03]
Alex Spears
Andrew, that is incorrect.
- [60:06]
Fred Katz
2023 playoffs. Nick Claxton.
- [60:12]
Alex Spears
Nick Claxton. The correct answer is Robert Williams,
- [60:19]
Andrew
the Time Lord.
- [60:20]
Alex Spears
Time Lord. Okay, for red, the board is yours.
- [60:25]
Fred Katz
Six.
- [60:26]
Alex Spears
Question number six.
- [60:28]
Fred Katz
I. I like how. I like how it says Andrew dash and then the tallies, and then F dash and then no tallies. Because it really looks like it's just F minus is my grades.
- [60:42]
Alex Spears
Well, let's see if we can change that. I think you might be able to get this one. Among the Knicks who were also on the team last season, there are only two players who scored more points in this year's playoffs than they did in last year's playoffs. Who are they? One point per correct answer. So these are Knicks that played in last year's playoffs on the Knicks. But they've scored more points in this year's playoffs than last year's. Obviously last year they played more games.
- [61:10]
Fred Katz
One of them.
- [61:11]
Alex Spears
There's only two.
- [61:12]
Fred Katz
One of them has got to be Landry Shammon.
- [61:14]
Alex Spears
One of them is.
- [61:16]
Andrew
I was gonna say it. It has to be.
- [61:18]
Fred Katz
I mean, Landry Sham just shot 12 for 13 from the field in a playoff series.
- [61:23]
Andrew
Sorry.
- [61:23]
Fred Katz
From 3. From 3. 12 for 13 from 3 in a playoff series.
- [61:28]
Andrew
That's just bonkers ridiculous.
- [61:33]
Alex Spears
Point
- [61:35]
Fred Katz
I. It's total points. So I don't. So I don't think it would be Bronson. I'm running down the list. Is it gonna be like a garbage time guy? Is it like Ariel Hook? Porty?
- [61:54]
Alex Spears
That is correct.
- [61:55]
Andrew
Yes.
- [61:55]
Alex Spears
For two points. There we go.
- [61:59]
Andrew
Wow. That was also like the most Fred answer of all time right there. That rocks. That rocks.
- [62:08]
Alex Spears
All right, Andrew.
- [62:09]
Andrew
Number four. Number four.
- [62:11]
Alex Spears
Question number four. I love this question. Mitchell Robinson is the longest tenured nick being drafted 36 overall by New York in the 2018 draft. Let's name all 22 of Mitchell Robinson's teammates from the 20181917 win. New York Knicks. So how this works is Andrew will give me a name, then Fred will give me a name. Go back and forth until we've named every player who played for the 1819 Knicks who won 17 games.
- [62:40]
Andrew
Oh, my gosh. The 1819 Knicks. I mean, Kevin Knox.
- [62:51]
Alex Spears
Kevin Knox. Fred Ennis Canter and his Canter. That is correct, Andrew.
- [63:03]
Andrew
Oh, my gosh. Was Frank Milikina still on the team.
- [63:08]
Alex Spears
Yeah. Frank Milkina. Still on the team. Fred.
- [63:13]
Fred Katz
The man who Mark Berman deemed the next great Nick. Alonzo Trier.
- [63:22]
Alex Spears
Alonzo Trier.
- [63:23]
Andrew
Absolutely. No way. The next great Nick.
- [63:30]
Fred Katz
Oh, Berman loved Alonzo Trier.
- [63:33]
Andrew
Oh, my gosh. That's amazing.
- [63:35]
Fred Katz
Oh, yeah.
- [63:36]
Alex Spears
Could still happen. Andrew.
- [63:40]
Andrew
Yo. I am like, I'm out already. I feel.
- [63:44]
Alex Spears
No, no, no, no.
- [63:48]
Andrew
There's.
- [63:48]
Alex Spears
There's a lot of names here.
- [63:50]
Andrew
I mean, I'm sure there are. Was, like, Alec Burks on that team. I don't think he was.
- [63:54]
Alex Spears
No, no, no.
- [63:56]
Andrew
I don't know, Fred.
- [63:58]
Alex Spears
How many can you get if you just start rattling them off?
- [64:01]
Fred Katz
That was the team with, like. Okay. Tim Hardaway was definitely on the team. Yeah.
- [64:06]
Andrew
Oh, dang it. I could have gotten there.
- [64:12]
Fred Katz
Let's see. That was 18. That was 1819.
- [64:15]
Alex Spears
Yeah.
- [64:17]
Andrew
So.
- [64:20]
Fred Katz
Oh, that was the year of the Porzingis trade. So Porzingis was there and then. No, he was hurt. Well, he was hurt. He was hurt.
- [64:30]
Alex Spears
Oh, okay. So I only looked at guys who
- [64:32]
Fred Katz
played, and they traded him for Wes Matthews and DeAndre Jordan.
- [64:39]
Alex Spears
Yeah. And
- [64:41]
Fred Katz
who was the other guy in that deal?
- [64:48]
Alex Spears
Most exciting player in the package.
- [64:52]
Fred Katz
Who am I forgetting? Dennis.
- [64:54]
Andrew
Oh, Dennis Smith Jr. Oh, and then
- [64:59]
Fred Katz
Moody was on that team.
- [65:01]
Alex Spears
Yeah. Emmanuel Moody.
- [65:04]
Fred Katz
What a team, right?
- [65:05]
Andrew
Dude, there's some names on this team.
- [65:07]
Alex Spears
There's. There are a ton of failed lottery picks.
- [65:11]
Fred Katz
Oh, oh, the. The last. The last Knicks captain before Jalen Brunson was on that team.
- [65:22]
Andrew
Who's that?
- [65:22]
Fred Katz
Lance Thomas.
- [65:24]
Alex Spears
Yeah. Lance Thomas.
- [65:26]
Fred Katz
That's one of my favorite bits of trivia, because when the Knicks named Jalen Brunson their team captain in 2024, everybody had in their stories, like, Jalen, huge deal. Jalen Brunson named the captain of the Knicks a huge honor. He's the first captain of the Knicks since lance Thomas in 2019. And it was like, first of all, it was only five years ago. Second of all, it's like, Lance Thomas. This really is underscore. Like, not underscoring your point. It's kind of under.
- [65:51]
Andrew
That's hilarious.
- [65:53]
Fred Katz
I can't think so.
- [65:56]
Alex Spears
Other.
- [65:57]
Fred Katz
Damien Dotson. Damien Dotson.
- [65:58]
Alex Spears
Damien Dodson.
- [65:59]
Andrew
Damien Dodson. Oh, my gosh.
- [66:02]
Alex Spears
The.
- [66:02]
Fred Katz
The unicornet must have been there too.
- [66:04]
Alex Spears
Yes. Luke Cornett.
- [66:07]
Andrew
Wow.
- [66:08]
Alex Spears
Three top 10 lottery picks. Actually, one of them might not have been top 10. I think he was actually Noah Von Lay.
- [66:15]
Andrew
Oh, Von Lay.
- [66:16]
Alex Spears
Trey Burke.
- [66:18]
Andrew
Trey Burke.
- [66:19]
Alex Spears
Mario has only cult hero Ron Baker.
- [66:25]
Andrew
Yeah, I hate that I miss a Zona. I loved his own. Yeah.
- [66:28]
Alex Spears
Kadeem Allen. Billy Garrett. You know Billy Garrett.
- [66:33]
Andrew
Oh, man, I can't believe I missed Billy.
- [66:35]
Fred Katz
Oh, from, From. From Everybody Loves Raymond.
- [66:41]
Alex Spears
Yeah, I saw his name and I was like, this sounds like when I'm back looking at, like, the knicks in the 1950s. Like, oh, there's Billy Garrett. He played with Jumping Joe, folks. John Jenkins. Henry Ellison. Actually wasn't Henry Ellison. Was he a. Was he the 8th pick?
- [66:57]
Andrew
Was he another Ellenson? No, he was like a guy that was supposed to be a lottery pick, but was definitely not.
- [67:02]
Fred Katz
Yeah.
- [67:03]
Alex Spears
Courtney Lee and Isaiah Hicks.
- [67:05]
Andrew
Wow.
- [67:07]
Alex Spears
All right, Fred, you're only down by one, and you have control of the board.
- [67:11]
Fred Katz
Oh, wow, what a turnout.
- [67:13]
Alex Spears
This is like game one of the Eastern Conference finals. Number seven, per Clean in the Glass. When the. When this Nick has been on the floor in these playoffs, the Knicks have given up 9.3 fewer points per 100 possessions than when he is off the court. The best defensive on. Off differential on the team. Who is the player? And it's a huge gap between number one and number two. So this player is a minus 9.3. Well, I guess it'd be a plus 9.3, but, you know, like, I haven't
- [67:45]
Fred Katz
looked at the playoff on offs. It's. It's. I mean, I would be inclined to say OG but I don't think it's OG because I know how your mind works, and it's going to be.
- [67:58]
Andrew
I was gonna say that's way too obvious.
- [68:00]
Fred Katz
I think it's. I think it's Cat.
- [68:05]
Alex Spears
Fred. That is correct. Which means Fred has moved into the lead into heading into our final question. Now, Andrew could either tie or win the week, but he has to get both of the points on this final question. Are you ready, Andrew?
- [68:20]
Andrew
I feel like James Harden right now.
- [68:23]
Alex Spears
This. It really is what has happened here. Fred's been targeting. Targeting you on every question.
- [68:30]
Andrew
Getting lazier as this game goes along.
- [68:34]
Alex Spears
Per Clean of the Glass, the Knicks have the number one offense and number one defense in this year's playoffs. Among all the teams that made the playoffs, which team had the worst ranked offense and which team had the worst ranked defense? Now you get one point per correct answer. So of all the teams that made the playoffs, who is ranked last in offense and then who is ranked last year in defense?
- [68:59]
Andrew
Last in offense of all the teams that made the playoffs.
- [69:03]
Alex Spears
Yeah. And we're talking about playoff performance. So their offense in the playoffs, their defense in the playoffs.
- [69:10]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [69:11]
Alex Spears
One point per correct answer to win the week.
- [69:17]
Andrew
I'll guess Atlanta has the word. Had the worst offense.
- [69:22]
Alex Spears
That is correct. For one point, the game is now tied. If Andrew can get the worst defense in the playoffs, he will win the week by a score of 6 to 5. If he doesn't, I'm gonna have to come up with another question.
- [69:40]
Andrew
Is it also Atlanta?
- [69:41]
Alex Spears
I feel like. Oh, my gosh, it is. And Andrew wins the week. Wow. Six to five.
- [69:50]
Andrew
They just got pummeled. They just got absolutely pummeled. I was like, trying to think because like the suns, the sun's at least put up a fight. At least I thought in my brain. Fred, you should read. Fred, go listen to the Cats and Shoot podcast. I'm a subscriber. I'm a listener. As you could tell from the beginning of this show, I'll tie it back. It's worth the money. Even if you're not a Knicks fan. I think it's worth it it if you're just an NBA fan. I feel like the content is like, is really, really good. It's one of my favorite podcasts that, that I listen to. So please go listen to that. Go read Fred. He always has interesting stories there. You will always learn something new. It might be strange and unuseful, but you will enjoy it when you read Fred Katz. That's how I always come away from Fred stories. Like, I know that. I know like a fun. I know a fun fact that I didn't know before. Every time I read you.
- [70:51]
Fred Katz
It might be strange and unuseful, but you will enjoy it was my main pickup line when I was in college.
- [71:01]
Andrew
Please go read Fred. Thank you so much for listening. Okay, I do have to read a couple five star reviews on Apple Podcasts because Dave DeFore came on with us and I told them, told people that if they would mention Dave DeFore's name that I would read them on the show. So I'm gonna read. I think we got two five star reviews from listeners about Dave Dufour. So Dave was like, you better. You better make sure that you read those. Okay, this one is literally titled Dave Dufour. It says, this is from Rally the Valley. I just wanted my review read in slow mo. I just wanted my review read in slow mo. Okay, there you go. Thank you. Rally the Valley. And then we have one another one from JWP 1017. Well, well, let's test out that claim that at the end of the pod. Lol. Shout out to Dave. I was pretty invested in the trivia questions. Even I knew caruso canned over 7 threes. LOL. I own the Galaxy Brain YouTube channel. Check it out before you read the review. I didn't do this. Sorry. You'll see it's nothing nefarious or inappropriate, just anime stuff for all. Oh by the way, Xena is my favorite. She would have crushed you all in those trivia. Shout out to Xena. Thank you for leaving those reviews. If you leave a five star review, you don't even have to mention Dave before. If you mentioned Slam and jam, we'll read it on the show. Hope everybody has a great weekend. Enjoy Game seven and we'll talk to you guys again next Saturday.
- [73:01]
Fred Katz
Seeking, Pushing Optimizing, Creating Learning Discovering At Aramco, we believe in harnessing the power of data to push the limits of what's possible. That's how we deliver reliable energy to
- [73:18]
Alex Spears
millions across the world.
- [73:20]
Fred Katz
Aramco, an integrated energy and chemicals company.
- [73:25]
Alex Spears
Learn more about us@aramco.com
- [73:31]
Ben Green
hi, this is Ben Green from the Athletic FC. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [74:06]
Robert Mase
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