Thunder take down Knicks in a thriller + Hornets on the rise

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – March 5, 2026

Episode: Thunder take down Knicks in a thriller + Hornets on the rise
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Fred Katz
Main Theme:
A recap and analysis of two of the NBA’s hottest storylines: the surging Charlotte Hornets’ unexpected dominance, headlined by their blowout win over the Celtics, and the Oklahoma City Thunder’s thrilling victory against the New York Knicks—with a deep dive into what both results mean for playoff races and team identities.

---

Charlotte Hornets: Emerging Contender or Early Bloomer?

[03:06–11:41]

The Hornets’ Hot Streak and Identity

• Six straight wins, each by at least 15 points—the latest a 118–89 rout of the Celtics.
  • “They beat the Celtics 118 to 89. This was the sort of two way game that we've been seeing from them. High power offense, excellent defense...” —Dave DuFour [04:00]
• Physical and versatile defense, especially inside, led by bigs Moussa Diabate and Ryan Kalkbrenner.
  • “Both Musa Diabate and Ryan Kalkbrenner...posed problems for the bigs and for the guards...Jalen Brown struggled around the basket too.” —Dave DuFour [04:15]
  • "I think he moves much better, much better and stronger...he's tougher and he pushes folks out." —Zena Ka on Kalkbrenner [05:40]

Hornets’ Toughness and Defensive Mindset

• Emphasis on physical, almost relentless, perimeter defense.
  • “When Stephen Curry was being guarded by the Hornets defenders...there's scars...not to say that they're holding, but they are a physical team.” —Zena Ka [05:18]
• Commitment to staying attached to ballhandlers, making ball screens harder to exploit.

Sharpshooting, Ball Security, and Offense

• Only 4 turnovers vs. Boston while hitting 19 threes on 49 attempts—extra possessions and efficiency combine.
  • “They only [had] four turnovers against the Boston Celtics...They outshot the Boston Celtics by 13 three point attempts.” —Dave DuFour [06:26]
• Multiple elite shooters: Brandon Miller, LaMelo Ball, and rookie Con Canepa.
  • “Con hits four out of eight threes last night...just continuing to add in the numbers to this crazy rookie season.” —Dave DuFour [06:59]

Comparing the Hornets to Other Breakout Teams

• The rise mirrors last season’s Indiana Pacers’ late surge with Tyrese Haliburton.
  • “Their rise during the last couple months, it's not dissimilar to what the Pacers did last year.” —Dave DuFour [07:33]
  • “There's an interesting comparison to make there...the consistency in that team got better, the ball movement got better, things opened up.” —Zena Ka [07:49]

LaMelo Ball: Engine of Consistent Excellence

• LaMelo’s offensive orchestration and playmaking stand out, especially in rewarding teammates.
  • “LaMelo, his consistency in one, being able to put up the shots that he makes and create, but really creating for his teammates, he's looking so much more...” —Zena Ka [08:11]
  • “He's having fun and he's trying to involve his teammates.” —Zena Ka [08:30]

Playoff Prospects: Hope, Caution, and Experience

• “Why can't the Charlotte Hornets make the Eastern Conference finals if they make the six seed? They're as scary as anybody right now in the East.” —Dave DuFour [09:37]
• Zena’s “quizzes vs. tests” metaphor: Regular season is the quiz—“The things that you've learned over the course of the year test it...that is what the playoffs are.” [10:01]
• Both agree Hornets will be dangerous, but playoff experience and adjustments are an X-factor.
• “They got a lot of good quizzes right now, but they haven't had the test yet, so we'll see what happens.” —Zena Ka [11:28]

---

Knicks vs. Thunder: What the Thriller Revealed

[14:36–37:01]

Knicks’ Performance Against the Champs

• Despite the narrow loss (two missed game-tying threes at the end), the Knicks held their own versus OKC.
  • “If you're going to lose a game to the Oklahoma City Thunder, this was not a bad way to lose it.” —Dave DuFour [14:36]

The Knicks’ Defensive Evolution

• Knicks have boasted the NBA’s top defensive efficiency over the last month and a half.
  • “Over the last month and a half, they have the number one ranked defensive efficiency in the NBA. This is a team that is playing very good basketball.” —Fred Katz [15:04]
• New, creative defensive schemes: doubling Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, switching Chet Holmgren with wings.
  • “[They] were guarding Chet Holmgren with Smalls…with Mikhail Bridges and with Josh Hart...They were doing interesting defensive stuff and pulling it off...” —Fred Katz [15:22]

Rookie Mohamed Diawara’s Rise

• Filling in for an injured Mitchell Robinson, Diawara has become a revelation:
  • “He's guarding well. They have confidence using him as a switchable defender, …using him against guards...Mike Brown was like, go be the guy on Jaylen Brown.” —Fred Katz [18:28]
• Sudden leap in three-point shooting volume and confidence, even hilariously setting a record.
  • “He hilariously broke the record for three pointers per minute in a game…13 threes in 15 minutes…if his shoe was a half a size smaller, he would have had 14 threes...” —Fred Katz [19:48]
  • “After the game, when he shot 4 of 13 from 3, he tweeted out, it felt like 4 or 4, which was phenomenal.” —Fred Katz [21:09]
• “51st pick in the draft. Most 51st picks don't do anything ever…he's playing the Oklahoma City Thunder in March for a team that's going to have home court in the playoffs.” —Fred Katz [22:00]

The Knicks’ Defensive Ceiling and Playoff Readiness

• Defensive numbers are buoyed by some opponent shooting luck, but real improvements present.
  • “If you look at the really advanced metrics…qsm…The Knicks over this time period are so far and away the luckiest defense in the NBA…But the Knicks should be like sixth, which is still a very good respectable defense.” —Fred Katz [24:55]
• Key additions: OG Anunoby’s “best defensive moments” and Jose Alvarado’s game-changing point-of-attack defense and full-court pressure.
  • “Jose Alvarado is one of the best small point of attack defenders in the league. He is so good at that. He is such a disruptor, he makes everybody uncomfortable.” —Fred Katz [25:50]
• Carl Anthony Towns is “much better defensively” since the start of the year.
• “The recipe for this team is be an elite offense…just be good enough on defense…if you're top 10 on defense, that's amazing. And I think they're capable of getting there.” —Fred Katz [27:00]

Thunder’s Depth and Offensive Versatility

• OKC’s ability to turn to reserves (like Cason Wallace) and maintain elite play, even with stars out.
  • “AJ Mitchell's out, right? AJ Mitchell's out and, and J Dub's out and Shay's out. And then it's like, oh, you know, I just hand the offense over to Cason Wallace, that's fine. He'll average 20 a game.” —Fred Katz [31:01]
  • “Their decision-making and ability to attack different coverages is so quick, it is like clockwork.” —Fred Katz [32:18]
• Thunder labeled as “so loaded that I would not say that any team is really in a good position to go up against them.” [33:25]

Knicks’ Lessons: Playoff Margin for Error & Defensive Rotations

• Doubling elite creators like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander exposes even sound defenses to mistakes—rotations must be perfect.
  • “One guy went one way, another guy went another way, and there was an open corner three. Those moments in the playoffs are the ones that lose you playoff series.” —Fred Katz [35:29]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Hornets’ identity:
  “They outshot the Boston Celtics by 13 three point attempts. That itself…this team is maybe…Charles Lee is taking Missoula another level down there right now.” —Dave DuFour [06:59]

• On Diawara’s shooting binge:
  “He hilariously broke the record for three pointers per minute…13 threes in 15 minutes…if his shoe was a half a size smaller, he would have had 14 threes…” —Fred Katz [19:48]
  “After the game…he tweeted out, it felt like 4 or 4, which was phenomenal.” —Fred Katz [21:09]

• On playoff pressure vs. regular season success:
  "It's quizzes versus test. You can ace all your quizzes...but when you take the test, you are now having to apply the principles...over a seven game series. That's where I think that's going to limit them [the Hornets]." —Zena Ka [10:01]

• On OKC’s arsenal:
  “…so loaded that I would not say that any team is really in a good position to go up against them.” —Fred Katz [33:25]

• On the Knicks’ need for defensive perfection:
  “It’s that one time where you didn't hit your rotation that cost you the whole playoff series…” —Fred Katz [35:29]

---

Key Segment Timestamps

• 03:06 — Start of Hornets discussion
• 04:00 — Hornets’ two-way game versus Celtics
• 05:18 — Physical Hornets defense and guarding technique
• 06:26 — Importance of turnovers and three-point shooting
• 09:37 — Playoff upside and "quizzes vs. tests" metaphor
• 14:36 — Knicks-Thunder game recap begins
• 15:04 — Knicks’ defense and context of loss
• 18:05 — Rise of Mohamed Diawara (Knicks)
• 24:21 — Knicks defense: Luck vs. Skill, playoff sustainability
• 25:50 — Key defensive contributors: Alvarado, Towns
• 31:09 — Thunder’s depth and offensive versatility
• 35:29 — Knicks’ need for crisp rotations in the playoffs

---

Episode Tone

• Analytical, enthusiastic, slightly irreverent—a mix of stats-heavy insights, game-level breakdown, and banter.
• Hosts alternate between optimism about rising teams (Hornets, Knicks) and realism about the gap between regular season surges and playoff success.
• Candid about small sample sizes, luck, and the nuances that separate regular season upsets from deep playoff runs.

---

Summary Takeaway:
The Hornets have become one of the NBA’s best stories—blending youth, depth, and two-way play into a winning streak that’s challenging perceptions of what’s possible for a rebuilding team. But as the hosts caution, playoff basketball is another animal. Meanwhile, the Knicks’ narrow loss to the Thunder provides optimism—especially regarding their evolving defense and unexpected rookie contributions—but also a reminder of the razor-thin margins at the highest level, and just how daunting a matchup OKC presents for any contender.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Bill, the intelligent finance platform that helps leaders scale with proven results in basketball, hype doesn't win championships. Execution does. The same is true for your finances. If you run a business or manage a financial back office, you don't have time for tools that promise the world but break under pressure. You need financial infrastructure that you can actually trust. That's why the big players use Bill. Bill isn't just moving money. They're simplifying financial operations for nearly half a million customers, from AI powered accounts payable to seamless syncing with your accounting software. When it comes to scale, the numbers speak for themselves. Bill has securely processed over a trillion dollars in real transactions and is trusted by over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms. Stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice. Ready to talk to an expert? Visit bill.comproven to get started and grab a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.comproven terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details. This episode is brought to you by Pura. Spring is a feeling. More light, more movement, a little more possibility. With PURA's spring collection, you can layer the scents inspired by places you love. Fresh air, flowers, florals in bloom, sun warmed citrus right at home. For a limited time, get a free Pura plus diffuser when you subscribe to 2 cents for 12 months. Designed for larger spaces, designed to transform how they feel. Shop the Spring Collection now at Pura.

This episode is sponsored by gab. The youth mental health crisis is all over the news and we know social media is driving it. This shocked me. Teens spend an average of 9 hours a day on screens outside of school. That's basically a full time job just scrolling mindlessly. My daughter is just four years old and I'm already dreading the day that she asks for her own cell phone and thinks about getting on social media. But here's the good news. A company called Gab has solved the problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is tech in steps. Tech in Steps works by providing kids safe phones and watches tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time. From GPS tracking enabled watches for young kids to increased features and parent enabled apps on the phones for tweens and teens. Each device grows with your child. Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gap, which keeps them socially connected safely. I can't recommend Gab enough. Use our code to get the best Deal on something that will make parenting easier and give you peace of mind. Visit gab.com NBA Daily. That's G A B B.com and use code NBA Daily for a special offer.

[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily presented by Amazon prime for March 5, 2026. I'm Dave DeFore here with Zena Keta. Coming up, our hornets a game above.500. After stomping the Celtics, we're going to talk about them. Then Fred Katz is here to go deep on the Knicks in their loss against the Thunder and why he's hopeful about their defense. Good morning everybody. What's up, Xena? How about those Hornets?

[Zena Ka]

Oh, I just love the possessive. Our Hornets. I mean, look, we're claiming possession into I, I'm happy you have jumped into the bandwagon with me and you're seeing what my gu in North Carolina are up to. I'm obsessed right now with not only the fact that they're winning and they're continuing to win and they bounce back from that little spell.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, right.

[Zena Ka]

That's big. But then it's how they're winning, Dave, that's the biggest part.

[Dave DeFore]

Listen, they won their six straight last night. Six games in a row that they've won by 15 or more points. They, they beat the Celtics 118 to 89. This was the sort of two way game that we've been seeing from them. High power offense, excellent defense and you know, some of this, look, Boston couldn't hit some shots here and there and that happens with this team a lot. But it was around the basket that I thought the Hornets defense really just shown they were making it very difficult for the Celtics. They were very physical. Both Musa Diabate and Ryan Kalkbrenner I, I thought posed problems for, for the bigs and, and for the guards. I mean, Jalen Brown struggled around the basket too. But this was what we've been talking about with this team for weeks. They do it on both ends.

[Zena Ka]

Honestly, I'm happy you called out the bigs because a lot of folks have looked at Moussa, they looked at Ryan Kalkbrenner and particularly Musa. They looked at it from a perspective of he's agile, he's agile, he's switchable. It's, that's his positive as a big defender. But he also is physical and I think people woke up to that after that Detroit Pistons game and the, you know, little Jalen Duran little scuffle and they realized, okay, he's a little bit more physical than we thought. But same Thing with Ryan Kalkbrenner, there's been comparisons in the way that he plays sometimes to Donovan Clingan. Now I've been watching Donovan Clingan this week and I'm gonna tell you right now, Ryan Kalkburner is tougher than that guy down low. I think he moves much better, much better and stronger. Just goes up stronger. But also he's more dexterous around the basket. He's tougher and he pushes folks out. But then going to the perimeter defense, this is something, you know, covering. The warriors particularly picked up on the Charlotte Hornets. I mean, Stephen Curry when he was being guarded by the Hornets defenders. Arms red as hell. Like there's, there's scars, there's like. But they, but not to say that they're holding, but they are a physical team and I don't think I appreciated that until I saw it with the warriors and I've been seeing it in every game since. Watch the way that the Hornets come off when they're defending guards coming off of screens. They're hugging. They're not allowing a big to come in between them to be able to seal them off and allow guys to curl off tight. They're right there with you, whether it's a hug, a hold, whatever you want. That's just how they play. And that makes it hard for refs to call it any other way because that's the standard across the board. That reminds me of another team that plays like that.

[Dave DeFore]

Listen, they, they remind you of a lot of good, the good young teams that we've been watching. Right. Oklahoma City Thunder with the way that they stay physical. Here's the other thing about this team. They only four turnovers against the Boston Celtics. If you can protect the ball and you can protect the rim and you can shoot the way they do, they hit 19 threes. They got up 49 of them. I mean they, they are going to make you. You're going to have to shoot with them. Look, they outshot the Boston Celtics by 13 three point attempts. That itself.

[Zena Ka]

Right, right.

[Dave DeFore]

This team is maybe, you know, maybe Charles Lee is taking Missoula another level down there right now. And part of that is you, you, you know, look, you're younger and you kind of have to do that because you need to play a higher variant style. But also They've got these three great shooters in their starting lineup in Brandon Miller, LaMelo Ball and Conanipple. And Con hits four out of eight threes last night. I mean, just continuing to add in the numbers to this crazy rookie season. And, you know, look, I'm not going to say that this is the Indiana Pacers, because they look, they're different teams than that Pacers team.

[Fred Katz]

Last year.

[Dave DeFore]

That Pacer team had veterans. That was a lot of that was about health and things coming together. But their rise during the last couple months, it's not dissimilar to what the Pacers did last year. Starting about mid, mid December, when they got their legs under them, there were

[Zena Ka]

questions about Halliburton's shooting and what this team was doing, and all of a sudden it rose. And I think that there's an interesting comparison to make there of as Halliburton got his shooting back on, on par. Um, the consistency in that, that team got better, the ball movement got better, things opened up in a better way. And you're seeing the same sort of consistency, not only because of Con Canepa. I, I really think that he's a big catalyst in this. But Lamelo, Lamelo, his consistency in one, being able to put up the shots that he makes and create, but really creating for his teammates, he's looking so much more. We were, you know, texting throughout the game. Dave, you were calling out how LaMelo's looking for his teammates to come set a screen or looking or setting or sending passes to his teammates four feet away with such, like, gusto behind it. And it's just, it's because he's having fun and he's trying to involve his teammates in it. And I think as much as he gets involved, things roll even more for Charlotte. And to the point of the amount of shots that Charlotte puts up, they not only operate really well in the half court, they run. They run and they turn you over. Boston is number one in terms of the least amount of turnovers per game. They average about 12 a game. They turn over Boston veteran guards like Peyton Pritchard and Derek White 16 times and they get 21 points off of it. Like, that's impressive. And they limit Boston to just five points off of their turnovers, their five turnovers. So it's a combination of everything. But that comparison of the Pacers is so cool because I kind of see Lamelo's stability correlated to Charlotte's just growth overall.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, I mean, all that being said, Xena, why can't the Charlotte Hornets make the Eastern Conference finals if they make the six seed? They're as scary as anybody right now in the East. I don't, I don't believe in them necessarily because they're so young and we just know how it works.

[Sponsor Announcer]

But what if.

[Dave DeFore]

Xena, you know what it is? They have nothing to lose.

[Zena Ka]

You know what it is? I, I mean, I still think they're going to make, they're making the playoffs. I don't think they're going to be in the plane. I think they're going to be the sixth seed in the playoffs. And it's the quizzes versus test. It's the quizzes versus test. You can ace all your quizzes all year long. The shortened versions, the quick, you know, being able to memorize what you're supposed to do in a short amount of time. Only 20 questions, maybe 20 minutes. It works really, really well. If you studied and you prepared. And we know Charles Lee has gotten those guys studied and prepared. When you take the test, you are now having to apply the principles that you learn in those small little fragments of time to a longer, extended, more strenuous examination. And in that examination you're going to have your. The things that you've learned over the course of the year test it and test it and reexamined. And you're going to have less time to adjust because you're going to be sitting in that test. And that is what the playoffs are. Those Charlotte Hornets are going to be sitting in this test. And in each game folks are going to be adjusting to them. Not in the same way that folks have been trying to adjust to them on a night in, night out basis in the regular season when people got time to focus on you, to watch tape, to learn every single tendency that you have and, and get to in real time adjust to you over a seven game series. That's where I think that's going to limit them to get to the Eastern Conference finals. And the folks that have sat through the test before and they've aced the test, they're going to be able to advance. They, they got a lot of good quizzes right now, but they haven't had the test yet, so we'll see what happens.

[Dave DeFore]

Sounds like a hater answer, Xena. Look, if they were the eight seats, I think that they could push the Pistons to six games. I think it would be a great series. It'd be a lot of fun. I know. Listen, I just, I just think, I think that they probably can't make it to the Eastern Conference. I'm with you, but man, it would be fun. Ask me again in a month, Xena, because we've got to see what happens over the next few weeks. Guys, stick around after the break. We got Fred Katz to go long on the Knicks and he maybe believes in their defense.

[Fred Katz]

Prime Monday Delivery is fast how fast are we talking?

[Sponsor Announcer]

We're talking game night delivered by tomorrow

[Fred Katz]

night fast so we can win fast.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Cards fast.

[Fred Katz]

Puzzles fast. Team games that you're doing a day fast. Doesn't matter what the game is, we will dominate fast. We're talking game over. You win fast. Fast one day delivery for the win. It's on.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Prime when you bring a child into the world, your perspective changes overnight. Suddenly you're thinking years ahead about childcare, school, the milestones you cannot wait to see. And for me, part of my family means thinking about their future, even in the uncomfortable ways. Life insurance isn't a fun topic, but it's one that you need to think about. And I'm glad I found out about Ethos. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy 100% online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get same day coverage. There's no medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions. You can get up to $3 million in coverage, some policies as low as $30 a month. As of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the 1 no medical exam Instant life insurance provider ethos has a 4.5 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 3,000 reviews. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos now by going to ethos.com athleticnba in as little as 10 minutes, you can get a free quote and up to $3 million in coverage at ethos.com athleticmba that's E T H O S.com athleticmba ethos.com/athletic MBA application times and rates may vary.

[Fred Katz]

Matching outfits, extravagant birthdays, many nicknames, a

[Zena Ka]

few classic moves of a dog obsessed parent. Ollie is obsessed with how obsessed you are with your pup, so they strive

[Fred Katz]

to give your dog the best.

[Zena Ka]

From fresh human grade food to in app health.

[Fred Katz]

Check ins to track your dog's well being. You could say Ollie feeds the obsession. Visit ollie.com healthypup and use code HEALTHYPUP to get 60% off your welcome kit.

[Zena Ka]

Ollie Feed the obs.

[Dave DeFore]

We had Thunder Knicks last night at msg. Our guy Fred Katz was in the building. Pretty good game. The Knicks come up a little bit short. They had two good looks from three to tie it up to potentially send it to overtime. Hey, I. I know we're not about giving, you know, participation trophies to teams and like patting them on the back, but if you're going to lose a game to the Oklahoma City Thunder, this was not a Bad way to lose it. They look pretty good.

[Fred Katz]

They did look good. I thought they totally looked good. And you kind of had to take the grander context into things, right? The grander context is the Knicks are playing really good basketball right now. They just throttled the San Antonio spurs at home. They played a really good game in Toronto on Tuesday night. This game was second half of it back to back. It was second half of a back to back for Oklahoma City as well. But Oklahoma City also didn't play Shea Gilgis Alexander. On the first half of that back to back. They were sitting some guys so they were a little bit more rested. This is second half of a back to back for the Knicks against the team that notoriously will absolutely exhaust you with the defending champs and the favorites to win the title again this year. And yeah, I thought they played a pretty good game. They were down 15 at one point early in the third quarter. They end up kind of roaring back there with. With a very high energy lineup. They have done a good job being resilient. They've done a good job defensively, which kind of should surprise some people the year. But over the last month and a half, they have the number one ranked defensive efficiency in the NBA. This is a team that is playing very good basketball. They were doubling Shay Gilgis Alexander, which was putting them into rotation, and they were hitting those rotations like well. They were communicating well. They were playing physically. They were guarding Chet Holmgren with Smalls. They were guarding Chet Holmgren with Mikhail Bridges and with Josh Hart. Like they were. They were doing interesting defensive stuff and pulling it off, I think, at a. At a pretty darn high level. And they just ended up giving up more three points than they lost, which, like, if they were playing the Kings, we'd say was a disaster. But when they're playing the Thunder, it's like, that's okay. That happens sometimes.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Zena Ka]

I think the fact that New York I was. I was really impressed with this game overall. The fact that New York got down a little bit early just because Chet Holmgren was insane in that first quarter, dropped 14 points, 4, 6 and 3. He couldn't miss, it felt like. But they were able to come back in this game. And you just talked about the fact that Shay Gildas Alexander sat for the first half or the first night of their back to back, and you looked at the fact that Mitch, Mitch Robinson sat for the second night of the New York Knicks back to back. Now a lot of Knicks fans are like, yo, we would love to see Mitch Robinson against the Thunder. This is the way that we can actually properly measure what we look like up against the Thunder. However, in the midst of this rotation and balance of Mitchell Robinson's minutes, as he's dealing with injury and dealing with how he is playing out in these games, we've seen Mohamed Diawara come alive, literally doubling his minutes and providing defense, rebounds, outside shooting. Just a ton of great stuff coming out of the French rookie. What's. What's it been like watching him evolve over the course of this season? And how important is he in the midst of getting Mitchell Robinson to be able to play more consistently?

[Fred Katz]

He is. I think he is probably at this point, and this is. I'm not reporting this via sources, but just being around the team, knowing the team, knowing how they operate and seeing the way they play, I think there's a pretty decent chance that when they're at full strength and the playoffs start, he's in the rotation.

[Dave DeFore]

Absolutely.

[Fred Katz]

I think he gets minutes. He's guarding well. They have confidence using him as a switchable defender. They have confidence using him against good wings. They have confidence using him against guards. And when people talk about, well, he's a switchable defender, usually that just means like, all right, well, you could do well enough on a bunch of guys, but what they're actually doing is Mike Brown has put his money where his mouth is, and he's not just saying, all right, you know, yeah, you're good enough on a bunch of guys. They played Boston not too long ago, and Mike Brown was like, go be the guy on Jaylen Brown. Don't switch off of Jalen Brown. Go beyond Jaylen Brown and guard Jalen Brown. And he did a good job on Jaylen Brown. I will say, I have never in my life seen anyone go from kind of hesitant at anything to so confident at anything that Muhammad Diwara has done on three pointers. I have never seen. That's just. Yeah, I'm not just talking about basketball. It could be anything. It could. It could just be doing your homework in your 10th grade poetry class. I have never seen anyone go from hesitant to so confident. He took. I mean, he hilariously broke the record for three pointers per minute in a game in that Sunday game against San Antonio when he took 13 threes in 15 minutes. And it would have been 14 threes if the 12 pointer that he took didn't have, like, a toenail on the line.

[Zena Ka]

Like, if.

[Sponsor Announcer]

If he.

[Fred Katz]

If his shoe was a half a size smaller, he would add 14 threes in 15 minutes in that game and my favorite one, and I was just talking about this in the locker room with Jordan Clarkson who loved this shot and I was like, you would love this shot. Was then they were. Knicks were up huge and Mike Brown had brought in all the end of bench guys and Diawara was still out there with the end of bench guys and it's a bunch of guys who hadn't gotten in the game yet. And Diawara brings the ball up and he could kick it to Tyler Kolek in the corner who hasn't been on the floor all game and hasn't had a touch. And he, he, he could give it to another one of those guys, but he's like, you know what? No, I think I'm going to chuck this. Pull up 3 with 19 on the shot clock in a 25 point game and he just throws it up there. And I was like. And after the game, by the way, when he shot 4 of 13 from 3, he tweeted out, it felt like 4 or 4, which was a phenomenal.

[Dave DeFore]

That's a shooter's tweet right there. I mean, exactly shooting my.

[Fred Katz]

This was a 10 out of 10 tweet. Just 8.

[Zena Ka]

You love to see it from the rookie and he's, he's producing and he's impacting the scene and that's really fun to watch. Um, there's moments where it's like you, you know, there's a drop off in terms of your, your rebounding capacity for if you're the Knicks when Mitchell Robinson is off the floor. But there are moments where while I was watching unrivaled and this game back and forth tonight, I'm like, oh, OG's out there? No, it's Diawara. Okay, that's good. That is a good thing in terms of defensive intensity. Being able to spread the floor and flatten the floor, especially in transition with that corner outside three is just like, it's really nice to see him be so flexible for them.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And the reality is like he's a rookie who was the 51st pick in the draft. Most 51st picks don't do anything ever. They either never play a second in the NBA or if they do play a second in the NBA, it's exclusively in meaningless time. Or it's exclusively for many teams. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's just like. And then they're out of the league in a year or two. Like.

[Dave DeFore]

And he's playing the Oklahoma City Thunder in March.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

For a team that's going to have home court in the playoffs, there's a

[Fred Katz]

pretty good chance he's going to be in there playoff rotation. That doesn't mean he's going to be playing a gazillion minutes, but I think there's a pretty good chance he's going to be given a shot. And if he looks overwhelmed, that's fine. He's a second round pick rookie, they'll pull him. He, he won't continue to play. But I do think that he's going to be given a chance there and I think the way that he's played deserves to give him a chance. And I think what the Knicks have right now, what I'm willing to say about him right now is like 51st pick. All right, I'm. I'm pretty intrigued. Like that's an interesting 51st pick. I don't know what he's going to end up being. I don't know what he's going to end up amounting to, but that's a guy with size who can guard the three point shot while he's been taking a ton of them and he's shooting a good percentage on the year. There's a reason why I took 13 against the spurs, right? There's a reason why I chucked up through four more tonight. It's because nobody is guarding him on those threes. Yeah, there are levels of becoming a spacer that guys have to hit. You got to hit enough threes for defenses to guard you. Then when they start to guard you, do you keep taking them? Right. And then when you're taking them, do you keep hitting them? And then do they start closing out on you hard? Then do they start deploying actual closeout strategies against you? Right. Are they running you off the three point line? Are they stutter stepping at you? Are they defending against the drive? Like with him, he's going to be a really interesting one because if he actually can hit threes, it's going to be hard to just full on run him off the three point line because he's a pretty smart bastard and he can kind of have take it off the dribble a little bit and so he could attack a closeout if you're just going to run him off the three point arc. But he's got to get to a point where like he can be a spacer where he can get the defense to actually come close out on him. He's not there yet. He doesn't need to be there yet. He's a rookie. But it's interesting what's going on right now because it's a good progression.

[Dave DeFore]

I liked him next to Carl Anthony Towns. I thought that was a pretty interesting, you know, a lot of shooting on the court, which is not something that you see from the Knicks very often and maybe gives you another wrinkle. Like you said, if you come to the playoffs and you do need another shooter out there. I don't know. We'll see. How do you feel about the defense? I know lately it's been good. Once we get to the playoffs, I think that we, we feel pretty confident that Jalen Brunson is going to provide plenty of scoring and Carl Anthony Town is going to hit shots. This defense hold up in the playoffs, what they're doing right now, what you're

[Fred Katz]

seeing, I think it depends on how you define hold up. Like, can it be good enough for them to win the East? Yeah, I think so. I think so for sure. The reality is in their most important moments, they are going to have weak spots on the court. Since January 22, they are number one in the league in points allowed per possession. Now that's a little misleading. They're giving up ridiculously low three point shooting during that time. And there's no way over the course of his full season the team is that opponents are going to shoot 30, 31% or whatever it is that they are against the Knicks during that time. And if you look at the really advanced metrics, you go on second Spectrum and you look at a stack called qsm, which basically tells you how lucky or unluckily a defense has been based on not just where shots are coming from, but who's taking the quality of shooters who are taking those shots. The Knicks over this time period are so far and away the luckiest defense in the NBA. And it's not even close. So I do take that number one defensive rating with a little bit of salt because of that. However, it's not like it's saying, well the Knicks should be 22nd. It's saying like the Knicks should be like sixth, you know, which is still a very good respectable defense. And the reality is Mitchell Robinson is a really good defensive center. And in the playoffs, because there are no back to backs, they're going to be able to have him out there every game and he's capable of playing really well. He doesn't always have it every single night. I think there's a chance the reason he doesn't have it every single night is because in the regular season he can't really bring himself to have it every single night because of the injuries and in the playoffs that might change. And the reason why I say that and why I don't think I'm being too soft on him in order to say that is because that's literally exactly what happened last year. And he was unbelievable for them during their playoff run. Arguably their second most important player behind Jalen Brunson. During that first round series against Detroit and second round series against Boston. OG Anunoby has had some of his best defensive moments of the season over this run. I think he's been tremendous. Mikhail Bridges for the last two weeks, I think has been a lot more physical, a lot better at the point of attack. They also have Jose Alvarado now, and at the beginning of the year, one of their huge problems was point of attack defense. They just weren't very good at it. And Jose Alvarado is one of the best small point of attack defenders in the league. He is so good at that. He is such a disruptor, he makes everybody uncomfortable. He can also do something which the Knicks don't really have, which is he can full court pressure you. They don't really have a good full court pressure guy. Like, they have good defensive wings. Josh Hart's a good defensive wing and Ojan and Obi's a great defensive wing and Mikel Bridges in that category also. None of them are great full court pressure guys. None of them are at their best full court pressing. And what Jose Alvarado can do is he can full court press you. And what that does is it's going to get offenses into their sets with 14 on the shot clock instead of 18 on the shot clock. And that alone is going to be able to help your defense when he's out there too. And you look at the turnovers that he's creating, you look at the turnovers that are being created when he's on the court and I think that's been a big thing for them. Also their ability to get out running off of those. So I think this defense is good enough to stand up. I will credit Towns as well. I think Towns has been much better defensively over this stretch than he was at the beginning of the year. Beginning of the year. Defensively, he was a real problem. I thought his best defensive game of the season was the San Antonio game on Sunday. I thought he really held up well in the Toronto game last night. I thought he did a good job against Oklahoma City during this game. I know he fouled out, but I thought he did a good job during this game when, like, it's a tough matchup for him and he's having to guard a lot of different guys and OKC is guarding him with like Lou Dort and he was just fighting on the offensive boards and he sometimes ends up getting crossmatched in transition because of it. And I thought he did a good job. They have ways for making up for. We're going to go at Brownson and we're going to go at Towns and it can help them and it can help them like stand up. And if the offense is. The recipe for this team is not like you have to be the number one defense, right? The recipe for this team is be an elite, elite, elite offense, an unbelievable top two, top three, number one offense and just be good enough on defense, be above average on defense. And if you're top 10 on defense, that's amazing. And that I think, I think they're capable of getting there. Whether they do or don't, we'll see. But I think they're proving they're capable of getting there.

[Zena Ka]

Okay, so you want to win on the margins, AKA stack enough good possessions offensively more than your opponent. Well, OKC did a pretty good job of that on their own. When you look at what Chad Holmgren and his 28 points did and Shay Gildas Alexander and his clutch minutes and his 26 points last night against the Knicks did, this defense has been looking great. But I'm curious if OKC and their ability to turn it up, whether it's through Chet, whether it's through Shay, if J Dub ever comes back, if it's through J Dub, do the Knicks have enough to stop a team like okc? And if anything, what's the lesson they learned in this game about where they need to be by the time the playoffs come to Wild?

[Fred Katz]

I mean, I would say no, they don't have enough to stop a full strength okc. I would also say I don't. I mean, I wouldn't pick anybody against full strength okc. I mean, look at, look at what's happening with OKC like David and Binge. AJ Mitchell's out, right? AJ Mitchell's out and, and J Dub's out and Shay's out. And then it's like, oh, you know, I just hand the offense over to Case and Wallace, that's fine. He'll average 20 a game.

[Dave DeFore]

Who's this A.J. mitchell guy making 3 mil a year.

[Fred Katz]

Like I was looking at it during that stretch when, when Kayson Wallace started, you know, scoring 20 every night. It was February 22nd, so it was like two weeks ago. Not even Casey Wallace is running 32 pick and rolls per 100 possessions. Kiss. Wallace has never had a week and a half where he's run 32 pick and rolls per 100 possessions. That's never happened. But they're just like, yeah, you know, just let him do that and he's going to be super efficient and it's just gonna work. It's gonna be like, yeah, it works. And I'm watching all his pick and rolls and it's like, you know, they, you know, Chicago, for example, they played Chicago last night and. And Shade sat in that game. They have no AJ Mitchell and they have no J Dub and, and, and Casem Wallace runs a pick and roll and Chicago defends him in a drop. And he's like, all right, you know what, I'm super fast. And this guy's probably going to get hung up on the screen because we have Isaiah Hartenstein, one of the best screeners in the league, setting screens. So I'm just gonna. Although I guess Hartenstein didn't play, but he was like, I'm just gonna take off. And so he just attacks zone coverages now. He's so good at being like, zone coverage. I'm so fast, I'm gonna attack the zone coverage. And then what he does is I'm gonna attack the zone coverage so much. There's gonna be so much room. I'm gonna get by the big. I'm gonna get by the guy guarding the scre. His eyes. Immediately they veer. They veered at a low man or they veered to the strong side defender, whoever's coming immediately, as soon as that happens, pass to the corner. Every time. It's so quick. It is like clockwork. And then they come on and they. Chicago double teams them. They blitz him on one pick and roll in that game. They blitz him. I'm one in the corner. It was like kind of a nice, kind of a blitz on the side. Pick and roll and Chet had set the screen and Chet pops and he's like, oh, well, I've been staring at the screeners defender the whole time. I'm just going to toss it over to Chet. Hits him for a wide open pick and pick and pop. Just the decision making game from Case and Wallace. Who's your 900th dribbler?

[Dave DeFore]

Right, right.

[Fred Katz]

You know, meanwhile, we have the audacity in the public to be like, you know, okay, see, could use another creator.

[Dave DeFore]

They got one. They were gifted one.

[Zena Ka]

Yeah. Jeremy McCain.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah. But now they have McCain and they have Case and Wallace. And they have Shea and they have Dub, and they have A.J. mitchell, and it's like this team. And Wiggins can do some stuff off the dribble, and Isaiah Joe shoots the lights out. And it's like this team is so loaded that I would not say that any team is really in a good position to go up against them. What did the Knicks learn from this? I would say the Knicks learned from this how incredibly perfect they have to be when they are put into rotation.

[Zena Ka]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

Because they were doubling Shea a lot.

[Zena Ka]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And they're not a team.

[Zena Ka]

And they're probably gonna have. But they're probably going to have to against scorers like Ashe. And there's. Whoever's coming out of the west is going to have someone like this. I mean, you can go all the way down the entire roster of the Western Conference. There's going to be someone that they're going to have to double up and have to get some rotations on. And so, yeah, this is. This is interesting. We'll see what happens. And as Davey mentioned, will this defense hold up? Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

And you look at the Eastern Conference, and it's like, all right, let's say they face Detroit in either the second round or the conference finals. And it's like that team has one creator. And I think the best way to. If you're going to execute every coverage the best of your ability, I think the best way to go with Cade is probably you're going to have to blitz them a good amount right on one coverage against them all the time, because he's too good. He'll figure it out. But you probably have to blitz him a good amount and say, like, all right, A Sar Thompson, you're going to have to beat us. And what that's going to do is if you're going to send second defenders at Shay, and there are different. Or at at Cade, and there are different ways you can do it. You could blitz him hard. You could, you know, you could, you know, just kind of show some soft double teams. There are a million different ways you can go about double teaming, but whatever you do, you're going to put yourself into rotation or at least make it more likely. You're putting yourself into rotation, and those rotations have to be crisp. Tonight. I actually thought the Knicks rotations, on first glance, I'll go back and rewatch it, but on first glance, I thought they did a really good job.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Fred Katz]

However, every once in a while, one guy went one day, another guy went another way, and there was an open corner three and those moments in the playoffs are the ones that lose you playoff series. Because the reality is these playoff series can be decided by like one possession in a game three and one possession in a game five. And it's that one time where you didn't hit your rotation that cost you the whole playoff series that you didn't do it once in the game three and once in game five. And the Knicks have gotten way better at that, in my opinion. They were earlier in the year much better communicating on defense. But I would say that's kind of the one because I would venture that this was the game they double teamed a ball handler more than they had in any other game so far this season.

[Dave DeFore]

And also if somehow they get Carl Anthony Towns to actually shoot three pointers, I feel like, you know, maybe they win more games. I don't know.

[Fred Katz]

Yeah, I mean that's, that's, that's, that's, that's the first take. Answer extreme answer.

[Dave DeFore]

Killing me.

[Fred Katz]

Chris Pro 2 temptations.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, but it's killing me that, yeah, threes. I think that's a big mistake anyway. Not a big mistake getting Fred Katz on the show tonight. Thanks for hanging out with us, Fred. Everybody go and read Fred at the Athletic. What do you got? You look like you had something to say.

[Fred Katz]

No, I was just gonna say that's what happens when smalls guard towns.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, okay.

[Zena Ka]

When Smalls guard towns in the post. I don't mind that.

[Dave DeFore]

I still think, listen, it's an offensive flaw to not run some plays for this guy to get some threes up especially early because he's a front runner. If he hits a couple, he normally has a good night. Anyway, we had a good night. Thank you guys for listening. For Fred Katz and Zena Ka, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for hanging out with us.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Foreign. Good Life project is sponsored by the Drop by gnc. So if you've been locked in lately on your health and fitness, then then proper supplementation is probably very important to your daily routine. And thanks to gnc, it has never been easier to shop for your goals. For 90 years, GNC has been delivering the most cutting edge effective ingredients and products available. And now you can cut through the clutter with the drop by gnc, you'll find the latest in everything from protein and creatine to weight management, immune support, and so much more from all the top brands. We're talking Cadence, Wealthy, Bare bells, Ghost, not to mention innovations like new GNC amp, Creobolic. This first of its kind formula combines creatine with my HMB and bioactive peptides to not just build muscle, but also repair and protect it in ways creatine alone simply can't. Or the improved GNC amp Weibolic, the most studied protein formula on the market, proven to significantly increase your strength and endurance. And now they've increased the protein and perfected the taste. You can get more of what's new and what's next only at the drop by GNC. Just search up gnc.comthedrop.AI is transforming customer service.

It's real and it works. And with Fin, we've built the number one AI agent for customer service. We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of of real queries for real businesses. This includes the real world complex stuff like issuing a refund or canceling an order. And we also see it when Fin goes up against competitors. It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard. And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars. Which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at Fin

[Fred Katz]

AI when it comes to managing money, forget the hype and look at the results. Bill has a trillion dollars of secure payments powering our Bill pay tools Instead of just moving money, Bill is powering the financial operations of nearly half a million customers. So stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice. Ready to talk with an expert? Visit bill.comproven to get started and grab a $250 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details.