Thunder too Physical with the Spurs? | Morning Shoot Around

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – “Thunder too Physical with the Spurs? | Morning Shoot Around”

Date: May 21, 2026
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Andrew Schlecht, and a lead NBA analyst (identity unclear in transcript; likely Zena Keita or Esfandiar Baraheni)
Theme:
A lively Morning Shoot Around focusing on the Thunder-Spurs playoff series, the intensity and physicality of the games, injury concerns, refereeing and fan reactions, coaching, depth, and post-season award discussions, plus a look at the Knicks/Cavs series and all-rookie team results.

---

Episode Overview

The episode centers on the escalating physicality of the Thunder-Spurs playoff series, examining whether the Thunder have crossed a line or if both teams are simply playing hard-nosed playoff basketball. The hosts also explore injury impacts, the role of referees, and coaching nuances. Later, there’s a spirited discussion on all-rookie awards and league-wide playoff implications, especially revolving around the Knicks and Cavaliers. The tone is friendly, energetic, and slightly irreverent, with sharp basketball analysis throughout.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Thunder-Spurs Series: Physicality & Reactions

[02:33–05:35]

• Oklahoma City fans were anxious after the rare Thunder loss; a bounce-back win brought relief, but injuries to key players are causing new anxiety.
• Jalen Williams (J Dub) faces a recurring hamstring issue—his status is ambiguous and concerning for Thunder fans.
• The hosts agree Thunder’s experiences playing without J Dub might ease the potential blow of his absence, highlighting the team’s depth.

Notable Quote:

“Because of how often the Thunder have played without J Dub this season, is it…easier to swallow the fact that he might not be there for the rest of the series?...You’ve learned how to win without him so much.”
– Dave, [05:35]

2. Spurs’ Injury Woes, Depth, and Adjustments

[06:07–08:12]

• San Antonio’s guard depth is exposed by injuries; rotations forced into desperation mode.
• Speculation about possible changes to the starting lineup; Carter Bryant gets praise as a defensive bright spot and potential new starter.

Notable Quote:

“Who's your point guard? Are they going to start Jordan McLaughlin?...I actually think we might see Carter Bryant in the starting lineup. He has given them really good minutes.”
– Andrew, [06:57-07:53]

3. Light Interlude: Carter Bryant’s On-Court Bathroom Break

[08:18–09:32]

• A humorous digression: Carter Bryant was spotted using a public bathroom during the game due to the distant visitor’s locker room.
• Emphasis on player “hygiene” and relatable quips lighten the discussion.

4. Physicality: Where’s the Line? Are Thunder ‘Too Physical’?

[10:21–15:41]

• Debate whether Thunder’s physical approach is excessive or just the reality of playoff basketball.
• Acknowledge both teams’ rough play with sides occasionally “grabbing” and “holding,” but agree it’s mutual and expected at this stage.
• References to past physical enforcers (e.g., Bill Laimbeer) to contextualize the Thunder’s current style.
• The evolving NBA playoff meta: “If we foul all the time, they can’t call all of them”—recalling Miami Heat’s gritty approach.
• Reflections on whether the league’s physicality is good or bad for the product; consensus: defense should get a realistic chance in the playoffs.

Notable Quotes:

“Physicality is just a part of this...these are arguably the two most…physical teams in the NBA.”
– Dave, [12:34]

“…we've raised the level of intensity and physicality to the point where stuff that would be a foul in February is not a foul because the playoffs are a different sport.”
– Andrew, [14:20]

5. Refereeing: Fan Perceptions, Online Rage, and Reality

[15:41–19:57]

• Rants against fan obsession with referees; arguing games are not decided by calls and referees should remain faceless functionaries.
• Noting all stars—including Steph Curry and Shai—get grabbed constantly, and poor “whistles” are universal.
• Social media’s role: rage-bait and online brands built on stoking outrage over officiating.
• Replay review receives criticism for promoting unhelpful precision and interrupting game flow.

Notable Quotes:

“I don't want to know these referees’ names. I don't want them to have personality…”
– Andrew, [16:20]
“Perfection should not be the goal in sports...the fact that we're aiming for perfection is almost like getting in the way of the sport happening.”
– Host, [22:26]

6. Injury Surge: Scheduling and War of Attrition

[17:38–18:49]

• Acknowledgement that condensed schedule and huge minutes are central to recent injuries, not physicality alone.
• The “war of attrition” theme: whoever survives this Thunder-Spurs rock fight could be at a major disadvantage in the Finals.

Notable Quotes:

“…if I was an Eastern Conference team, I’d be like, man, continue beating [each other up].”
– Dave, [17:53]
“It is a little bit of a war of attrition. You do have to be deep, but maybe you could still be old if the young guys are all hurt.”
– Andrew, [18:20]

7. Coaching & Adjustments: What the Public Misses

[23:13–26:00]

• Fans often underestimate the nuances and importance of coaching adjustments, especially in timeouts and lineup flexibility.
• Mark Daigneault praised for gutsy adjustments, such as benching Hartenstein early.
• Assistant coaches’ behind-the-scenes importance highlighted; head coaches are more like CEOs rather than omniscient tacticians.

Notable Quotes:

“Not everybody is coaching every single possession out, right?...There’s a vibe to coaching that—it’s an art. It’s much more art than science.”
– Andrew, [30:45–31:00]
“Assistant coaches...lead the charge to throw it all on like this head coach. Head coach is more like a CEO of a company.”
– Dave, [31:29–32:03]

8. All-Rookie Team Guessing Game

[35:08–41:56]

• A fun, rapid-fire segment where Dave guesses the all-rookie first and second teams, with hints and player discussions.
• Conversation turns to trade value, “superstar” potential, and how big draft trades sometimes hinge on evaluations of untested potential.

Notable Quotes:

“Let’s say that everybody else is like a Devin Booker level star. But AJ [DeBonta] is like a top five player, then it’s 3 billion percent worth it to do that trade.”
– Host, [41:23]

9. Knicks-Cavs and Playoff Landscape

[44:49–48:49]

• Knicks poised to benefit from Thunder/Spurs attrition.
• Cavs’ acquisition of James Harden panned; Harden’s defensive effort described as abysmal and possibly unplayable in this level of intensity.
• Potential for Cavs’ collapse, possible major off-season changes if their run ends.

Notable Quotes:

“James Harden is a trash compactor. He’s not the kitchen sink.”
– Andrew, [47:06]
“The level of competitiveness is…out of this world in this series. And James Harden is operating at about 50% of that competitiveness.”
– Host, [46:02]
“It’s amazing to watch the entire NBA almost swing on one quarter of basketball.”
– Andrew, [48:47]

---

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the absurdity of online ref discourse:
  “Are we sure that isn’t being…like the Kremlin funding this?...Is the Kremlin funding this? And it’s like an anti NBA like, Russian smear campaign. Are there bots?”
  — Andrew, [19:57]

• On playoff physicality:
  “These are the two most physical teams in the NBA…You were always going to get a rock fight.”
  — Dave, [12:30]

• On the nature of coaching in the NBA:
  “It’s not a video game…I think the coach [in football] is so much more involved. Coaching is way more important.”
  — Andrew, [33:09]

• On the all-rookie trade value speculation:
  “Ace Bailey might get traded. Wait, okay, who said that?...If you think this number one guy…is going to be a superstar, then everybody else is like a Devin Booker level star…then [the trade] is 3 billion percent worth it.”
  — Andrew & Host, [40:36–41:23]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:33] Thunder fan anxiety, injury updates
• [06:07] Spurs’ depth crisis, rotation talk
• [08:12] Light segment: Carter Bryant’s bathroom break
• [10:21] ‘Too physical?’—Thunder/Spurs playoff style
• [15:41] The refereeing discourse & league-wide physicality
• [17:38] Injury impact, playoff war of attrition
• [23:13] What fans/detractors miss about coaching
• [35:08] Dave guesses all-rookie teams, broader draft/trade context
• [44:49] Knicks/Cavs playoff diagnosis, Harden’s defensive woes

---

Conclusion

This morning’s episode brims with rich NBA insight, debunking the “Thunder too physical?” narrative by contextualizing the grit of postseason play, featuring deep dives into injury fallout, rotation puzzles, and the perpetual fan scapegoating of referees. With playful banter, the hosts also celebrate stellar coaching and riff about rookie accolades and trade values, closing with takes on the wider playoff picture.

Takeaway:
The Thunder and Spurs’ series is not just ‘physical’ but an epic, old-school playoff battle—testing depth, resilience, and coaching creativity. Ref rhetoric and injuries are omnipresent, but true fans should focus as much on the basketball artistry as they do on the controversy.

---

For listeners pressed for time:
The heart of the Thunder-Spurs physicality debate and its context in modern NBA, along with sharp commentary about coaching, officiating, and evolving playoff strategies, can be found especially between [10:21–19:57]. The broadcast closes with a look ahead to the Knicks/Cavs, and speculations about the shifting postseason chessboard.

Transcript

[Andrew]

Jake.

[Jake Stauch]

I'm Jake Stauch, co founder and CEO of Cervel. We built Cervel to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications. My laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. It desperately wants to automate this work and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expense of consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Cerval, it becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run it. We guarantee you'll automate 50% of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four week pilot. Go to cervel.com acast that's S E R V A L.com/acast.

[Andrew]

The scouting reports end Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile. Get unlimited wireless for $25 a month forever. And keep your phone. It's a veteran move. Unlock the Savings@Boost Mobile.com Unlock $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile unlimited wireless plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com your production needs flexibility software. Define it with automation built to adapt and the best of it to to boost your OT Transform the everyday with Siemens.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Welcome to the morning shoot around here on the Athletic NBA Daily. It's a live stream. We're hanging out. We've got Dave here at down to Dunk studios in Oklahoma City, which is so nice. Yeah, we have s in Raptor studio up in Toronto.

[Dave]

That's right. Yeah, it is. It is shifted to a San Antonio spurs studio. I'm sorry, Andrew.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Oh, yeah, well, I know that. I know that. I know that for sure. Last night was. Was a tough one for you S.

[Dave]

Yes, it definitely has. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. How are things in Oklahoma?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

You know, it's. It's rainy here and. But mostly great.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Thunder, Thunder bounce back. Everybody's feeling good. The. The nervousness. It's. It's so funny thinking about like the way that like the fans were behaving between game one and between game one and two because they hadn't lost a game. Right. In a while.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

It's been like over a month since they've lost a game and so them losing it felt like. Well, it's, it's. It's over.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Like I can't imagine a way that things get better for the Thunder in a series like this, so. Yeah, but everybody's. Everybody's feeling much better after that. And also everybody's feeling a little weird with all the injuries, you know, what are going on.

[Andrew]

When I was walking back to the hotel after the game last night, I ran into some. Some Thunder fans.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

I. I said, oh, wow. Much better game too. They said, yeah, as long as J. J.U.B. and A.J. can play in game three. I was like, wow, that. That, like every. That's all anybody's worried about. I got a bunch of texts this morning. Any word on Dylan Harper? No.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, I. I don't. I mean, I. My guess is that we'll find out tomorrow.

[Dave]

I would be surprised if. Cause hamstring injuries are just so, like, it's a. It's at the minimum, like two weeks.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Dave]

For a hamstring injury. Right. So if it is hamstrings for both Dylan Harper and Jalen Williams, I would imagine they're both out for the series.

[Andrew]

Well, J Dub is the. Is to me, the really interesting case because he just missed six games with that. That same hamstring. And he did it non contact.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, right.

[Andrew]

The tweak was non contact. And so you gotta worry, you know, hey, is this just. Did he just re. Aggravate the injury that he just missed six games with?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, I think he did. They're calling it. They're calling it tightness. He was missing from the bench for a long time. And I was like, yeah, up in the media section, like, roaming around, asking people that would know.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

The answer to that question, where is J Dub? Where is he? He's clearly not on the bench. He's not on the bike. Where is he? And people are like,

[Andrew]

in the back on the massage table.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah. And especially in a. Like, if the Thunder lost that game yesterday, it's over. It's over. Now, the Thunder did lose the first two games in a series against San Antonio in 2012.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

And then four in a row.

[Dave]

Love that series. One of my favorite series of all.

[Ad Voice]

So it's.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I mean, it's over, but it's not over anyways.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

But if they lose that game, and you would just think that if Dub was able to go, he would have

[Andrew]

gone,

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

but, yeah, we won't. We won't know. My guess is that we will see him on. The injury report is out. And it may be ambiguous for a little while with him.

[Dave]

I would say, like.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Dave]

Glass. Glass. Half full slash half empty. Look here. Because of how often The Thunder have played without J Dub this season. Is it a little bit easier to swallow the fact that he might not be there for the rest of the series? Like you just, you've learned how to win with him so much over the course of this year that it just, it might not hurt you as badly as it would if you hadn't had all that experience, if that makes sense.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, I mean, they have the depth. Right. You know, they have the depth necessary. I think we're learning that like San Antonio, especially with losing two guards, they don't really have guard depth.

[Andrew]

They've only, they've got seven guys.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And in game two that, you know, Harrison Barnes, Jordan McLaughlin is playing, I mean that's, you're reaching. And now part of that, I think because they played Jordan Laughlin early, they were, I don't want to call it a load management game, but it wasn't not a load management game for them.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And now they're in probably in desperation mode with their rotation. I mean, who slides even into the starting lineup if you don't have Fox and you don't have Harper and Stefan Castle is just throwing the ball all over the gym. Like, who's your point guard? Are they going to start Jordan McLaughlin?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I don't know the answer to that. I don't know the answer.

[Andrew]

He got, he got, he got switched on the Shay one time jumper right in his eye. I mean, you know what, I mean, that's what is going to happen if that's the case.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah. I, I don't know how the spurs move forward. I would. Because the thing is you need, you need to support Stefan Castle, you know, like he can't be your primary guy right now, which just makes things really tricky for them.

[Andrew]

It would be one thing if he didn't have to guard Shea on the other end.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, I mean, like, do you move champagne over to Shea more?

[Andrew]

Maybe a little bit. I, I actually, I think we might see Carter Bryant in the starting lineup. He has given them really good minutes in the first two games. Yeah, he had that great block on Shay, the, you know, the, the rear view kind of contest, like where Wemby is there and she's thinking about him. I think Carter Bryant, I think he's a starter next year possibly anyway.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

He could be like, he could be

[Andrew]

there for next year, but maybe they slide him in the starting lineup that way. That way at least like you have the defense, you have the switchability and then, you know, you hope maybe he sticks a few shots. They're Gonna. I mean, I assume the Thunder are gonna let him shoot a little bit.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

They will.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So, you know, maybe you get a little Caruso, rub it off on him.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I mean, they would need that. He looked a little deer in the headlights at times. Also, it had bad turnover. Also went to the bathroom.

[Andrew]

I saw that.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

In the public bathroom.

[Andrew]

I saw that.

[Dave]

That was awesome.

[Andrew]

Well, hey, Andrew, can you actually clear

[Dave]

something up for me? How far, how far is the visitor's locker room?

[Andrew]

It's far.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

It's. It's quite a bit further. He went to the closest bathroom. It must have been a.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Pseudo emergency. Yeah, I, I would be my guess.

[Andrew]

I made that walk through the tunnel last night and there's like, there's a pub that's connected back there. I, I don't know if it's for season ticket holders, VIPs.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But this is the bathroom that's right across the hallway from that publisher.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yes.

[Andrew]

And it's a, it's a good three minute walk from there to the locker room.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

It is.

[Andrew]

And in the middle of a game.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I don't know, three minutes.

[Andrew]

Okay, two minutes. You gotta, you gotta go around a corner. You gotta find the right door. Cuz there's multiple doors. I. I'm just saying when you gotta go, you gotta go.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

He had to go.

[Andrew]

And it's in the middle of the game. He didn't want to be gone long.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

And listen, we learned a lot about his hygiene yesterday.

[Andrew]

Oh, no.

[Dave]

Wash his hands.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

He washes his hands.

[Dave]

He washed his hands.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

No, it's a good thing.

[Andrew]

All right.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

No, it's a really good thing.

[Andrew]

Awesome.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

Good.

[Dave]

Did a great job. Yeah. Honestly, that was more information than I needed to know about.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

No, it was great. It was great to know.

[Dave]

I agree with Carter Bryant. It might not be bad to put him into the starting lineup. I wonder if they go for Keldon Johnson because he's been pretty good for them in this.

[Andrew]

Was he good in game two? Because, see, to me, he didn't show up until the last few minutes.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Kelvin was not great in game two, in my opinion. Yeah, I think the Thunder handled him much better.

[Andrew]

He wasn't able to do the same bully ball that worked in game one. Yeah, they, they were actually. I mean, they were just. It wasn't anything that they changed. They just were tougher, to be honest with you. They were stronger, more prepared, I think.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Right when he came in and, and tried to like, back them down.

[Dave]

Wemby rules. Some will say, you know, let's, let's Talk about that.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Let's talk about the physicality now, watching the game, like, yeah, I just thought that we were aware of what playoff physicality was.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

In general, I just thought that we were more aware of it. I thought that we knew what playoff physicality was, and apparently we're not. Apparently, we're averse to it, and people don't want to see physical. There's physicality from both teams. It's not like.

[Andrew]

It's just we both sides in this.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yes, absolutely. Yes. Because it's happening, and it's okay. Stefan Castle, Physicality is good.

[Andrew]

Stefan Castle, the way he guards the ball out top is extremely physical, but he doesn't foul.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

In the paint, everyone is fouling.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Constantly. Now, can we split hairs and say, okay, maybe you shouldn't be able to grab a guy and kind of run block when, you know, when you're on the offense. Like, maybe you shouldn't be able to grab Wemby and move him out of the way like that. Sure, we can. We can argue that, but I see San Antonio do the same stuff.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah. That's the thing is like, yeah, go ahead.

[Dave]

S. I was just gonna say, I think it's just funny because there was a highlight reel that the broadcast put together to be like, oh, look how much of a difference maker Isaiah Hartenstein is. And truthfully, I do think Hartenstein made a difference.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Ye. Yeah.

[Dave]

But it's just in that highlight play, it was like, pull jab, like, step on the foot, whatever. And I. Again, like, if you go through NBA history, there is a guy like this, a lot like Bill Lambir is an iconic version of this. Right. The Pistons bad boy. And I'm. I'm not calling them that. I'm not saying this is that.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

This is. This is. This is maybe the 2026 version of Lambert where. Where, like, the fan. Like, some of the fans are reacting as if it is.

[Dave]

I know. Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Some of the fans are acting like that's what this is.

[Dave]

The. The way it's being packaged is as if this is like the bad boy Thunder. And it's just. That's not what this is. Yeah, it's. It's not like that at all. Physicality is just a part of this. And also, these are. These are arguably the two most. Outside of maybe the Pistons. These are the two most physical teams in the NBA.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Dave]

And you were always going to get a rock fight, and that's why you're seeing the soft tissue injuries, too. The speed at which both of these teams Play the ground coverage. All of that means a lot of bang bang plays. And I mean, I don't know how you guys felt in the arena. I'd love to get your thoughts, but when I was watching on tv, it felt like the game was in two times speed, like how quickly everything was moving. It felt like it was just a different sport in comparison to basically everything else we've watched this season. Not just in the way that they are competitive, but also the, the speed and the pace and the intensity, it just, it's unmatched. So that's why you're seeing so much physicality, truthfully, on both sides. I agree.

[Andrew]

Well, also, but like, let's not forget Wimby, seven and a half feet tall. Right. You have to be physical with him because he is going to outsize you at every turn.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And there is a way like you can be physical without being, you know, like you're not. They're not tackling him to the ground. They are grabbing. But that's, that's part of the NBA. Like guys are getting grabbed on every possession, every rebound, and you, it's almost like holding, which is why these teams play the way they do. I talked about this, you know, during the season. Like the old Miami Heat adage, if we foul all the time, they can't call all of them. That's real. And so it's not so much that it's a strategy, it's just, hey, we, we've raised the level of intensity and physicality to, to the point where some of this stuff that look would be a foul in, you know, February to get you through the, through the season is no longer a foul because the playoffs are a different sport. They really are a different sport. Whether that's good or bad or not for the NBA is debatable. I, I mean this is the style of basketball I prefer. I don't now. It's incredible. I think that there's a little bit, it's a little bit too grabby because I think that freedom of movement for the offense is important. But with the defense being at a constant disadvantage in the NBA because of the quick whistles, because of the fact that you can't hand check on the perimeter. I don't care about the grabs. Like, let them play. Let the defense have a chance.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah. I mean, great players get grabbed.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Shay does too. He had like the first two rounds. He's getting grabbed like crazy. Marcus Smart, she's like wrapping his arms around him. Right. I mean, Austin Reeves is like putting both arms Underneath his armpits and raising them up. You know, like, there is, there's examples of it everywhere happening in the NBA. Anthony Edwards got, got grabbed every. It happens. The problem is, like, these guys are so good and Wimby is so good and Shea is so good that you have to help. You have to push the boundaries of this. And that's where the physicality is, like, comes into this.

[Andrew]

People keep talking about who has the worst whistle in, in the league. Stephen Curry has the worst whistle to ever maybe exist in the NBA. When you watch how he's grabbed off the ball, how he's hit, knocked down, they never. I mean, the guy shoots four free throws a game.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

That's insane, right? That's a guy that you can complain about if you're a fan. And he's still the goat, right? Like, he found a way to make it work. And there, there's, I mean, and probably hours of footage of him getting knocked down, grabbed, pulled, pushed, all these other.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I just don't remember the conversations.

[Andrew]

Like, everything is about refereeing right now.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

It is the lamest, lame man. It is the lamest thing.

[Andrew]

People watching the games, thinking about the refs. And this is where. Back to my, my point. I don't want to know these referees names. I don't want them to have personality. Bro, put a mask.

[Dave]

Well, well, now they have them in tears. You know, the, the mbpa, they came out with years.

[Andrew]

Listen, that's a good thing actually. And maybe the league should listen to it because that list is pretty good. You know the tier three guys, those are the guys who names, you know, you don't want them out there.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

The only guy's name who I want to know is Carl Lane because he has the greatest referee photo ever. It's just the slightest smirk and he's looking into the camera like he is on like a 90s sitcom. And he like, just said his like one liner and he's looking into the camera. That's the only name we should know. If you haven't seen Carl Lane's photo, look it up. You're gonna love it. It's gonna make your day 13 better. I promise you. It's very good. Everybody else. Yeah, I don't, I don't care to know who these guys are, what their personalities are like. Their job is to make sure that game flow happens. That's it. And that nobody gets hurt. Yeah, those are the. That's. That's their job. And you know, the injuries that have happened weren't as a result of physicality they're as a result of the NBA playing too many basketball games.

[Andrew]

That's it.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

And there's too many possessions and not

[Andrew]

enough time off between these games is another thing.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

The spurs played huge minutes in game one, every single one of them. And then they have to come back a day and a half later, essentially.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

You know, and do this is.

[Dave]

I, I actually, I feel like this series being as competitive and intense and truthfully insane as it is, if I was an Eastern Conference team, I'd be like, man, continue beating.

[Andrew]

Oh, the Knicks need to be just like sitting there like, oh, I can't wait for these guys to show up after a seven game series. Who's going to be left standing, you know. Exactly. If the Knicks win the title this year because these two teams beat each other up.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Honestly, not a bad thing for the NBA. Right. Like, hey, it is a little bit of a war of attrition. You do have to be deep, but maybe you could still be old if, if the young guys are all hurt, you know, everyone's got a shot.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

It's true.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Like they, it's a, it's a war of attrition, man. The NBA playoffs, it's always three months,

[Andrew]

always a war of attrition on top of a six and a half month long season. Right.

[Ad Voice]

Like it's a lot of basketball in

[Andrew]

a short amount of time and the intensity is cranked up. I mean it's just.

[Dave]

I don't know.

[Andrew]

But that being said, I think the refs have been good in the first two games. We. When you consider, like you said, s the, the pace of play, the speed of these guys, how much like they're moving around the court. I mean you watch the spurs and, and the Thunder execute X outs on shooters and they do it without foul. I mean there's just so much precision happening there and there's so much play underneath the basket. And I think Victor Womenyama is a hard guy to officiate and I really think that the refs have been. I would give them like a 90 out of 100 as far as the game. I haven't felt them nearly as much as it feels like people have. Watch it from home.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah. I've watched both these games in person and I don't walk away thinking about the officials. I think it's the way that the online community exists and the way that like some people have made their brands on. Let me show you the things that should annoy you about officiating. Like that's like some people's online brand and how they are like getting people riled up is like this, like rage bait, man.

[Andrew]

Are we sure that isn't being like, like, is the Kremlin funding this? And it's like an anti NBA like, Russian smear campaign. Are there bots? This is.

[Dave]

You know what the, the craziest thing is? On top of, on top of all of this, like, I, I really do believe this. The two things that NBA fans complain about the most, that relatively. And I say this as someone who actually doesn't know either, like, we don't know enough about one, coaching and two, officiating. Like, those are the two black boxes of the NBA that everybody gravitates towards to complain. It's this coach didn't do the adjustments, this coach didn't call that timeout, this coach didn't make that play, etc. Etc. Or it's. We didn't get the calls right. The free throw discrepancy, the fouls, whatever, those are the two ways that NBA fans like to complain about the game. And truthfully, and I say this as someone that sometimes become like, is prone to this too, it's because we don't get like that inside. Look at exactly how these things work, how coaching works, how you're right, offices work.

[Andrew]

You know, I don't know about the refs. I think with the refs you can see it. And the problem is that we get the slow mo replay where we see like the stuff that you see.

[Dave]

Yeah, maybe we see too much from the refs.

[Andrew]

Too much. I think we see too much. I hate replay review. I don't like it. I would rather just get the game going. Replay review has brought us things that do not actually exist in basketball like it used to be. I'm going up for a rebound. You come in from behind me, ball goes out of bounds, that's my ball. We're going the other way. That that's actually how it should be. But okay, now we're going to go to the replay review and mo my fingernail hit the ball. That's not basketball. Like, there is a. Some of this is. It's too black and white because we see these replays. For instance, game one, Knicks Cavs, Jared Allen commits a flagrant foul on a layup.

[Dave]

But.

[Andrew]

Oh, wait, but Carl Anthony Towns actually kind of grabbed Jared Allen's arm way before this. It's a foul on Towns. No flagrant. No. You know what I mean?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

This is. Just call it and let it go. The human element. And actually, I don't know if anybody watches baseball. This, this Ball and strike challenge, I want the human umpire. Like, that's actually part of baseball. Yeah, I don't mind arguing calls after the fact.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, it's. Perfection should not be the goal in sports. There's. There's not been a perfect game played ever. No, there's not been a perfect officiated game ever. Imperfection is like a part of life. It's a part of sports. And the fact that, like, we're aiming for perfection is almost like getting in the way of the sport happening.

[Andrew]

The conversations being about refs after the games that we just watched is.

[Dave]

Is a bummer.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I can't think of anything more lame. I cannot imagine anything more lame like watching that game and then coming away thinking, like, well, let's talk about the jobs of the officials. Like, dude, can we not talk about, like, some of the greatest players to ever touch a basketball? Caruso is playing against each other. We got the ghost.

[Dave]

I will say this again. This is genuinely one of the best playoff series I've ever watched in my life. Through two games, it's genuinely been one of the best playoff series.

[Andrew]

Well, you were talking about. All right, you were talking about coaching ass. And to your point, we don't know what's. What the game plan is. Right. But I have a pretty good sense. And maybe, I mean, look, I have coaching experience, so I can understand this. But also, I think anybody that knows basketball, you can. You know whether a team is executing their game plan or not. Like, you just know if guys look lost, obviously they're not. And I do think that that stuff shows up. Kenny Atkinson, I think.

[Dave]

I think that's. That ends up more on the players, though.

[Andrew]

Oh, no, no, no. Yes, of course. Right. But like, I would say, like, Kenny Atkinson allowing an 18 to 1 run without a timeout. Dude, it doesn't take someone with coaching experience to understand that that's bad.

[Dave]

Yeah, that's true.

[Andrew]

If you're an NBA fan, you understand that momentum is actually real in basketball. The hot hand may not be, but momentum is.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

And momentum is a real thing.

[Andrew]

It is a real thing. And. And especially if you're a road team, you have to kill that momentum. Like, guys start seeing the ball. Like, especially in that Knicks game. The Knicks shot so poorly that it affected their defense. That's how they got down 22 because they were working so hard and they were getting stops, and then they come down and it was a brick. And then they couldn't get the offensive rebound like that. Those vibes shifted. You watched them lose energy, which they barely had to start the game anyway. But then you see the ball go in a few times. Oh, okay. This is why Gregg Popovich was always good about the I'm going to take this quick timeout. My guys are messing up. I'm going to take this quick time out. You stop everything. You stop the bleeding. Your guys get to catch their breath. The Knicks were running the Cavs ragged. You got to give those guys a chance to collect themselves. Hey, where are we messing up? And maybe we need a sub here. 18 to 1. Like that's egregious. And like that's the thing that you can point out, in my opinion about coaching the flow of the game. You talked about the refs controlling the flow of the game on the court. The coaches affect the flow of the game for their players.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Every, every great coach knows when to call that timeout to halt. And you at least are trying to stop momentum or at least pause it.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

To in, in an attempt to stop

[Andrew]

it, you give up five straight buckets without getting one yourself. You gotta take a timeout.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

If you don't take a timeout, then you, you are, you are leaving your players out to drive because like they are obviously bleeding the points.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

And they, they need help. Like they need your help in that moment. It's, it's like the, the job of the coach is to make the arguments with the officials and like try to. It's politics. They're trying to like, get the officials to do the thing they want them to do and to stop the game when it needs stopped.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Ad Voice]

If you want to know what's really worth your time when it comes to losing weight, skip the guesswork and get weight loss by HIMS. HIMS offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications that now include the WeGovy pill, the WeGovy pen, plus lifestyle tips to support you along the way with WeGovy at HIMS lose

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

up to 20% or more of your body weight.

[Ad Voice]

When combined with diet and exercise, it helps you regulate your appetite and eat less, so success is within reach. Plus, WeGovy is the first ever GLP1 pill for weight loss, so there's no needles needed. Through HIMS, everything happens online. You'll connect with the licensed provider who will determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your medication is delivered right to your door, no insurance necessary. And it doesn't stop there. HIMSS makes hitting your goals seamless by offering access to 247 messaging with your care team and in app lifestyle and nutrition support like recipes, meal plans, fitness videos, sleep content and more. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP1 options, HIMS makes it simple to find a weight loss approach that fits into your world and your wallet. If eligible, you'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Ready to reach your goals?

[Ad Voice]

Visit hims.comtand to get a personalized affordable plan that gets you that's H I M s.comtandem hims.comtand Weight loss by HIMS is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk as To get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit hims.com Listen,

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I finally made the decision.

[Ad Voice]

I'm not doing eye masks anymore. Done with the sound machine. Even melatonin wasn't helping like like it used to. I decided that I wanted to sleep better and the thing that I'm going to do is I'm going to buy a new mattress and a change what I'm sleeping on and I chose a Leesa and I cannot wait to get my king size Leesa in and sleep

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

on it and just improve my overall sleep.

[Ad Voice]

Leesa has a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep. Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. From night one you'll feel the difference. Premium materials that deliver serious comfort and full body support no matter how you sleep. Just take the Leesa Sleep Quiz and you'll find your perfect match in less than two minutes. Leesa mattresses are meticulously designed and assembled in the USA for exceptional quality and they back it all up with free shipping, easy returns and a 120 night sleep trial. Leesa has been awarded the best Hybrid and Best Memory Foam mattresses by the New York Times Wire Cutter and is featured by West Elm as their Go to Mattress partner. Plus, LEESA is committed to eco friendly materials and sustainable manufacturing practices and partners with organizations like Clean Hub and Green Worms to help remove harmful plastic waste from the environment. Go to Lisa.com for 30% off plus an extra 50 off with the promo code Athletic MBA exclusive for my listeners. That's L E-E-S A.com promo code Athletic MBA for 30% off plus an extra $50 off. Support our show and let them know that we sent you after checkout Lisa.com, promo code Athletic NBA.

[Jake Stauch]

I'm Jake Stauch, co Founder and CEO of CERVEL we built Cerval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding password resets, access to applications. My laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. It desperately wants to automate this work. And that's why they need Serval. You just tell Servil what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Cerval, it becomes the AI engine for powering the entire company. This is a new way to run it. We guarantee you'll automate 50% of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four week pilot. Go to serval.com acast that's ser v.com acast.

[Andrew]

Not everybody is coaching every single possession out, right? Like Joe Missoula calls play on every possession. Not every, every coach does that.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, it's, it's rare and they're. And yeah, a lot of Mark calls sets, sure. But he's not, he's not really calling plays.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And it's, it's just like again, it's, there's a vibe to coaching that it's an art. Yeah, right. It's much more art than science. We want it to be science. Like we, we want this guy to have this playbook that's magic and there's no magic. I, I promise you. No one's inventing new styles of play and basket. Like that's, it's just. Well, it's also like they're making adjustments here and there. Like the, like we're gonna not screen as much and stuff like that. But they're not creating anything new. Everybody's just stealing old stuff and trying to find something that works for their guys.

[Dave]

It's also discounting how much work and responsibility the assistant coaches have in all of this. Like, there's going to be an offensive guy who's might draw up a play for you on a given possession, or there's a defensive guy who's going to come in and say, hey, they're running this out of this timeout. Watch out for this. This is exactly the play. Like you even see it when they zoom in on the huddle, right. That sometimes it'll be the defensive guy leading the charge or it's the offensive guy or someone else, another assistant is going to be leading the charge to throw it all on. Like this head coach. Head coach is more like, I don't know, a CEO of a company that

[Andrew]

like basketball would think is. It's just a little bit different than football where like, they really do hand off a lot of responsibility and they make the ultimate call. Like in the NBA, I think it's more like the defensive coaches have a much stronger voice than like, like your offensive guru, let's say.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And, and if it's, you know, if you're drawing up a play, you're not really drawing up anything new. You're going to stuff that you've already run 50,000 times. It's usually going to be the head coach that's like, hey, this is what

[Dave]

we're going to do.

[Andrew]

And then you're talking about just keys. It's like, guys, you're. You're falling asleep on the glass.

[Dave]

Exactly.

[Andrew]

You're giving up these backdoor cuts. Wake up. Right. Like, that's really what the head coach in the NBA is doing. Like, you just don't get to. I don't know, it's not a video game. I don't get to take over Shay Gilders Alexander and make, oh, hey, do that move and hit that 16 footer. It's, you know, whereas in football, I think the technicality of it, like, it is much more. Okay, if you block here and you block here, that hole is open and it's just more. A little bit more. I think the coach is so much more involved.

[Dave]

Coaching is way more important.

[Andrew]

Exactly. Absolutely. You're actually more like a general in a war in football than. Than a coach.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, well. And we're seeing some great coaching on both sides.

[Andrew]

Absolutely. Yep. Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Like, I wouldn't say old coaching.

[Andrew]

By the way, Mark Dagnault has shown, like, just guts. I mean, just guts. He sat Hartenstein. How many minutes Hartenstein play in game one? Was it 12? 12 minutes. And then he comes out and he's like, hey, I need you to be a huge piece tonight. And he just. That's buy in, but also, man, ballsy. Just like, incredible. Like, this is why I was so excited about coming here for this series. Throwing out your starting lineup two minutes into the series is incredible. Yeah, it's incredible and it takes guts. And we see teams all the time do this thing where I got to stick with my guys. They got us here.

[Dave]

Yeah, I got to stick with them. Well, they, they. How many different starting lineups did they have in the finals last year? Like four.

[Andrew]

Well, they played 12 guys in the first quarter of game.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Well, they, they changed their starting lineup to, to begin the series and then they Went back to. And then they went their traditional starting line.

[Dave]

Right. Because it was case in. And then it was the double big lineup. And then they went back to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

We're gonna take this. Let's take a quick break. I'm gonna. I'm gonna make sure my Internet gets a little bit better. We'll come back, we're gonna talk about the all rookie teams are going to make Dave guess the all rookie teams not seen them. Okay, I'm looking forward to that. And we'll have a few more NBA discussions. We'll be right back. And we're back after that quick break. All right. Dave Defore. Okay, it's time. Put your phone down. Put your phone down. Put your phone down. Come on, Dave. Put your phone down.

[Dave]

Yeah. Yes.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah. It's time to talk about the all rookie teams that were announced yesterday.

[Andrew]

The playoffs. Look, once we get to the.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Dave, no, stop, stop.

[Andrew]

We.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

You have to guess. Don't do this. No. You don't have to say a thing. You have to say anything. All you have to do is say 10 names. That's what you have to do first. Don't do this.

[Andrew]

First team, Cooper flag.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Cooper flag is unanimous. All 100 votes.

[Andrew]

All right. Con knipple.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Con caniple. All 100 votes.

[Andrew]

Vijay Edgecombe.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

BJ Edgecombe. All 100 votes.

[Andrew]

First team, Cedric Coward.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Cedric Coward got 29 first place votes. Six, seven second place votes. And he is on the first team.

[Andrew]

Okay, now's where it gets tough. Did Dylan Harper make first team?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Did Dylan Harper make first team? He absolutely did. Dylan Harper is on the first team.

[Andrew]

Five for five.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

93 votes. 93 first place votes. Seven second place votes.

[Andrew]

Wait, okay, so coward had what, 29 first place votes?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Interesting.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Maxime Reynaud, did he make second team?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

He did. 26 second place or first place votes. 58 second place votes. He is. He's tied with another guy for total points for second team.

[Andrew]

Here's where it's going to get tough.

[Dave]

This is where it gets a little tricky.

[Andrew]

Real tough. I'm blanking right now. Hard. Oh, man. Hmm.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

We've talked about this team a lot when it came to the draft and their decisions around the 2025 NBA Draft.

[Andrew]

Derek Queen.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Derek Queen.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yes.

[Dave]

Yeah. And. And another one.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Another one.

[Andrew]

Oh. Fears. Fears the second team.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Fears the second team.

[Andrew]

That's impressive.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yep. And then there's two more.

[Andrew]

Does that make up for trading those picks to Atlanta?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

This is what they were wanting. They wanted to know, can we get two guys on the all rookie second team.

[Andrew]

That's it.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

And if they do, they'll declare victory,

[Andrew]

drop a mission accomplished.

[Dave]

I will say I do think it's worked out pretty decently for them. Like the eighth pick isn't terrible, you know, like the eighth. We'll see who, who, what happens with the eighth pick in this draft. But Queen and fears for the eighth pick in this draft. Not like the craziest trade, you know, disagree.

[Andrew]

Like, you think Queen is playable in the playoffs? Yes. Fears might be.

[Dave]

No.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Depends on what series you're talking about. If. If he's.

[Dave]

Yeah, I don't think any of those guys.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

He's gonna be on the spot.

[Dave]

I don't think any of those guys are playable in this OKC spurs series. We were actually, I was having this debate earlier. It's like, how many, how many Raptors do you think would be playable in this OKC San Antonio?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Barnes. Cmb.

[Dave]

Yeah. Yep.

[Andrew]

Which is, you know, like, I, I'm a big Kyler Murray boys fan. I think that that dude is like, he's gonna.

[Dave]

Yeah, I think those guys guaranteed complaints,

[Andrew]

but that's because of their, like their athleticism, their, you know, their size.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I think there's a world where CMB would be playing in the series. Yeah. I think the Thunder, he seems like a guy. The Thunder would go after RJ Barrett.

[Dave]

Almost. Yeah.

[Andrew]

RJ Barrett. If, if the spurs had RJ Barrett at the four.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

He would play.

[Andrew]

They would.

[Dave]

Yeah, he would play.

[Andrew]

Right. Like, they would be really good.

[Dave]

Kelden Johnson is playing in this series. I think RJ Barrett would play 100.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Oh, yeah, 100. Jamal Shed is a guy that the spurs need right about now, right?

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's actually very true. Yeah. Imagine you had him instead of Jordan McLaughlin.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's true.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But that, that's about it.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Jacoby.

[Dave]

Jacoby could play. I think he could. I mean, like we're seeing, we're seeing. We're seeing Jared McCain play and we're seeing like Isaiah Joe play, I think, I think Jacob.

[Andrew]

Okay, we're not really seeing Isaiah Joe play.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

We're seeing him get a shot. Yeah, yeah, we're seeing him get a shot.

[Andrew]

He's getting some run that beginning of the second quarter slot. Andrew, they're going to put you in in the next game, right? Like, he's just trying stuff out.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

It would go very poorly, I will tell you that. It would go very, very poorly.

[Andrew]

You can stick one dude.

[Dave]

How many all rookie. How many all rookie players is he still missing?

[Andrew]

There's Two left.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

There's two left.

[Andrew]

Two second team guys left.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

I don't know, man.

[Dave]

I'll just tell you. You, you, you just mentioned one like 30 seconds ago.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Oh, CMB.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

CMB.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

Oh, and one left.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

One more.

[Dave]

I'm actually trying to think of who this one is. I don't remember either.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Don't think too hard. That's what I would tell you. That's a hint.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Think too hard.

[Dave]

No fears Queen

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

highly touted. His. He has a college teammate that's on this list.

[Dave]

Oh, right. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just say he might get traded before the NBA draft.

[Andrew]

What? Okay, I've. Now I'm. I'm real.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Well, it, I mean, there's rumors of it. I don't think there's rumors of it.

[Dave]

I don't think it'll happen. But there's a rumor. There's, there's some rumors there. There's some murmurs.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

He shares the name with a playing card and a deck of cards.

[Andrew]

Oh, Ace. Ace Bailey might get traded. Wait, okay, who said that?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

It's. It's just been like the hypothetical. Like if, if the Jazz want the number one pick, they have to trade Ace.

[Dave]

Yeah, Ace and the second pick to move up to first.

[Andrew]

That's a crazy amount to give up. Like Ace Bailey is. Is good.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah. It depends on what your evaluation is. Because like a lot of times.

[Dave]

Exactly.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

If you think that this number one guy, whoever you think it is.

[Andrew]

Well, the jazz think it's A.J. jabonso.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

If you think it's A.J. and you think like he is going to be a superstar and then everybody else is going to be like. Let, let's say that everybody else is like a Devin Booker level star.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

But AJ is like a top five player, then it's 3 billion percent worth it to do that trade. I don't know if that's the evaluation. I have no clue if that's how they think about it. But if you do think about it in that term, in that way, it's absolutely worth it. Because I don't know that anybody's making like a super duper star evaluation on Ace Bailey right now. I think they think he's going to be a good player. But there's so many times where the number one pick in a draft shapes the NBA.

[Dave]

Right.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

And like the best player in a draft, in a really good draft can shape the NBA for a very long time. And if you have that player, especially on a rookie scale deal, like you have like a huge opportunity in front of you. So I don't know if that, I don't know where these teams evaluations are on these guys or if they think that there's that big of a difference between them, but I don't think it's. I think, I think it feels insane, but I don't know if it's as crazy as you think it is. Depending on what the evaluations are. If that makes sense.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, no, it makes total sense for me. It's. If you're, if you're Utah. Okay, let's say A.J. deBonta goes one. The Wizards are going to take him.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But you get your pick of the other three top guys. Right.

[Ad Voice]

Like Darren.

[Andrew]

We. Is the consensus that Darren Peterson has the, the most bust potential of those top four?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Andrew]

He's the risky, he's the risky pick. It seems like maybe

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

there's definitely like the off the court stuff is weird, right?

[Andrew]

Creatine doesn't make you cramp. Just throwing that out there, like.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah, it's not a thing.

[Dave]

I, I don't know. I, I think, I think. But he also, he also. I will just say of all the draft, I think Darren Peterson clearly is the best guy. Like in my opinion, I think he's like flat out the best player.

[Andrew]

So if you're, if you're the Wizards, is that like s. Which he's available at 3.

[Dave]

I, I would, I would pick him. I would pick Darren Peterson. I wouldn't care about Trey Young being there or anything like that.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah. See now that's, that, that's the way this needs to go for the, the Wizards, right? Like they can't care about anybody on their roster except for maybe you could say absolutely, like, oh, we could take Boozer because he works really, really well. Like Sar is there.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And the fit. That's actually one, I guess, one fit that you could, you could really think about. That's two high level players, theoretically.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But Boozer is like the safe pick.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah. I don't know. You have, you have. You, you, you can't, you can't go. Safest pick in the draft.

[Dave]

Yeah, I agree.

[Andrew]

I agree.

[Dave]

You've got to take, Take the guy. Take the guy, man.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Because if you're the Wizards, you haven't won 50 games since the 1970s. Okay. That's a real thing. Like you're going to. You, you need a superstar. And it's not Trey Young and it's not Anthony Davis and it's not Alex Saar.

[Andrew]

It's definitely not Bub Carrington.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Poor Bob.

[Dave]

It's not Bilal Kulibali either, unfortunately. But the Wizards are in a good spot. Guys, I will say I. I just. I have to bounce, but. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna make a prediction. I'm gonna say the Knicks win tonight again.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Dave]

And I think the spurs will win game three.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Okay.

[Dave]

All I got.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

All right. All right. See ya ass later, guys. All right, Dave, anything else? Any. Any thoughts on tonight's game between Cavs Nicks before we get out of here?

[Andrew]

You know, look, I was hard on Kenny Atkinson about some of the stuff at the end of that game.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

The biggest problem is James Harden. It's not Kenny Atkinson. It's not that Evan Mobley and Jared Allen can get soft sometimes.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

It's now James Harden.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Dude. It is outrageously funny.

[Andrew]

The Knicks were 13 out of 15 when he guarded the ball. That is absurd.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Dude, you want to talk about players that couldn't play in this Thunder spurs series? Imagine James Harden might be at the top of the list.

[Andrew]

Hey, we. We need you for six minutes.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Dude. I. The. The level of competitiveness is. Is out of this world. Out of this world in this series. And James Harden is operating at about 50% of that competitiveness.

[Andrew]

I hate, like, I hate to talk about an athlete or a player and just say, wow, like, where's the effort?

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But there's none. There's just none.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

I know.

[Andrew]

He's got, what, a 50 million, $48 million player option this summer? I mean, that's just crazy, man.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

And then he's picking that baby up. I just pick it up.

[Andrew]

And there's an argument to be made that the move that they made, you. You move Garland because he can't play.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And you get hardened because he does play. I understand that. I get it. And also, this team, if they fail, is. It might get blown up. Kenny Atkinson might get fired. You know, they are at that point in their process, so. Sure, we'll. We'll throw the kitchen sink at this. James Harden is a trash compactor. He's not the kitchen sink.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Like, yeah, he.

[Andrew]

He, like, sometimes. Great. That thing gets clogged. It's a mess. And that's what we saw in the game the other night. Jalen Brunson can cook all. Any. Pretty much any player on the Cavs, except for it seems like Max Druse and Dean Wade.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Shout out Dean Wade, man.

[Andrew]

He's great.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

He's been playing really hard.

[Andrew]

And if. If I'm. If I'm Cleveland. And they start targeting James Harden. I'm benching him. You got to bench him. And that's why Donovan Mitchell is your star. Right. Max Struus can ball.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Oh, my gosh. It's just so funny that they. Their solution to their problem and, like, credit to them. They made it to the conference finals. Yeah, they did that. That's amazing. But now we're talking about, like, the challenge that's in front of them. And James Harden is not the answer to that problem. And it's really, it's just funny that Cleveland would trade for him and expect some kind of different result come playoff time. Like, James Harden is eternally James Harden.

[Andrew]

And they blew their chance. This was the other thing.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

By like you blew a 22 point lead in game one at the Garden and that was your chance to actually win the series.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And they lost the series by blowing that lead. Like, if they don't win tonight, it's over. The series is over.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And the Knicks are looking like they're going to be nice and fresh for the finals against these two teams that are beating each other bloody.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So. Yeah. That was such a. It was. It's amazing to watch the entire NBA almost swing on one quarter of basketball.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Crazy.

[Host (possibly a lead NBA analyst)]

It's crazy. Okay, we'll have more coverage for you guys tonight on the Athletic NBA Daily, and we'll be ready in your podcast feed bright and early in the morning. Saturday Slam and Jam will be recorded Friday night after the Thunder game, so you'll have on Saturday fresh content on Thunder Spurs. Looking forward to that. Hope everybody's doing great. We'll talk to you guys again tomorrow.

[Andrew]

It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back

[Jake Stauch]

you've earned at the end of your first year.

[Andrew]

Seriously, all of it.

[Jake Stauch]

And we trust you to make smart decisions.

[Andrew]

After all, you listen to this show. See [e-mail] credit card real winning means showing up stronger, faster, better than before. The drop by GNC cuts through the noise, bringing you the best new innovations in performance and nutrition. From strength in recovery to endurance and focus. You're always leveling up the drop by gnc. What's new? What works? What's next? Marketers. You know that feeling when your creative clicks, when that social post sends engagement through the roof, when your outside of the box campaign hits ROI positive. When a personalized homepage turns prospects into customers. It's utter marketing bliss. Contentful helps you create tailored omnichannel experiences without working overtime. No stress, no limits, only possibilities. Get the [e-mail].