Ben (2:31)

O.

John Hollinger (2:33)

They actually, they actually won one yesterday. But yeah, no, no, just sort of luck of the draw. I had a good back to back here with Houston LA in town and this is actually a wonderful place to come to do this if it weren't for the team. Like. Yeah, I mean, it's a beautiful arena.

Dave DeFore (2:46)

And tells me all the time, like.

John Hollinger (2:47)

How much he loves coffee here and. Yeah, yeah.

Dave DeFore (2:51)

You actually had a really good story at the Athletic yesterday about the Rockets and, and the way that they had to get to the arena. So what happened there they were. There were no rooms at the end. Is that the situation. What's going on in Sacramento that was preventing the Rockets from getting hotel.

John Hollinger (3:08)

So basically there's one hotel here where everyone tries to stay. It's the Sawyer and it's, it's connected to the arena. It's the nicest hotel. When I did, when I was. So when I worked with. With the Grizzlies, I kind of helped with a lot of our team travel was one of my jobs. Because everyone wears like 20 hats in an NBA front office. And so I. I know somehow this sausage gets made here. So basically the Lakers are here. We're. We're already in the hotel. Cause they're playing today. And the Knicks flew from Portland after their game yesterday afternoon to Sacramento. Cause they want to get out of the rain even though they don't play here until Wednesday. So kind of a quirk. They had three days off or were just like, yeah, we're going to get the hell out of Portland and come down. So. And I think they booked their hotels first. So then the Rockets didn't have any, any room tonight. And so I don't know what blocked them the two nights ago. I'm not sure. Cause those teams weren't there then. But anyway, so they stayed in San Francisco the last two nights and they took a bus, you know, I mean, you guys know. I mean, it's 85 miles. Usually doesn't take 85 minutes though. So I'm not sure how long it took. I mean, it was a Sunday afternoon. Maybe it wasn't that bad, but they had to leave early and allow for all that. And they're just kind of get to the arena. They're at the end of a road trip already. They've played a tie to league record 23 of 36 on the road. Like, they looked exhausted yesterday. Um, and it, it showed. I mean, they lost. They lost to the Kings and they. And they flew back to Houston right after the game. I mean, most teams in the central time zone, I know that's where we were in Memphis. When you play in California, you stay over and then you fly the next day. So you don't get in at like 4am and the Rockets Were just like, screw this, we out of here. Because again, they didn't have anywhere to stay here anyway. And again and again. I mean, there's certain things, like when you travel with an NBA team, you can't just stay at the North Natomas. La Quinta him, you know, like, they're there. There' only a couple.

Dave DeFore (5:03)

Bleep this. So La Quinta doesn't hate us.

John Hollinger (5:07)

Lanta's taking some strays. No offense.

Dave DeFore (5:09)

I will say they let your dog stay for free. So shout out to Lanta when you're.

John Hollinger (5:13)

Traveling, Give them some free publicity. If you have an NBA team and all the players have their dog with them, then La Quinta is there. That's right.

Ben (5:22)

Let's pivot away from that very strange travel story, which is very interesting. And I have questions for the Sawyer. But alas, there are questions being had around the league around a particular player in Tennessee, that is John Morant. We know that he's had some games out with that right calf contusion, but that's not really the question around him right now. Contusion and quote. The question really is about the trade rumors, the fielding offers. You've talked a little bit about this. You've written about this. What's the situation there? Lay out the scene.

John Hollinger (5:59)

Yeah, I think. I think it's. I think it's time. I think both parties realize it. Kind of like with the. With the Hawks and Trey Young that we just had, they. Part of the reason they traded Desmond Bain this past season is because they realized they weren't good enough with the jaw. Jaron. Desmond Core. And that jaw wasn't reliable enough to be the main piece of a team like that. So they wanted to get more assets, set themselves up either to draft that guy or trade for that guy. But part of the. Part of the reason to do that with Desmond Bain, who they loved and valued as a good culture guy and all that, was that job wasn't the guy. And it looked like he was going to be, you know, that guy that you could build the whole team around. And now it's more like, okay, he's going to be good, but he's going to be available for half the games, and he's not really going to be a top 15 player in the league. So. Yeah, what are you doing? What are we doing here? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So now they're. I mean, even as recently as I want to say, this summer or something, Zach Kleiman was like, yeah, this is ridiculous. You know, this is fantasy. We're not trading Him. Yeah. Totally changed his tune. Now it's like, okay, phone lines are open. So usually on the team side, you don't do that unless you know you have at least one fish on the hook. And so, and so you can see Young and Wizards. Exactly, exactly. Like the Hawks knew they had Washington in the red zone. So then they could say, okay, let's open this up. Let's canvas a league. Let's make sure we're not missing, missing any other opportunities before we go ahead with this. I suspect that's kind of where the Grizzlies are. We'll see. The, the part that's fun for me is that when you trade a player, you know, the new team is responsible for his travel arrangements. So I, I want to see, I want to see a team have to fly him in from Berlin.

Dave DeFore (7:47)

That's right. The Grizzlies just landed in Berlin.

Ben (7:51)

That's crazy.

Dave DeFore (7:53)

You know, I'm sure he. Well, he's going to want to stick around for the game in London, so, you know, I'm sure he can tag.

John Hollinger (8:00)

Good club scene in London. That's all I'm saying.

Dave DeFore (8:02)

Yeah, it's not a bad one. Okay, let's talk about Ja and in relation to Trey, because one of the issues with Trey Young was there really wasn't a market. There was one team that was willing to take what at this point, I guess you could just say is a risk. If there's only one team, it's seen as a risky deal with Ja. He's got another year on his contract compared to Trey Young. So you're taking on longer term money and he plays less than Trey Young. You know, this season is a little bit, it's a, it's an aberration for Trey. He's usually playing out. He's out there playing games. Ja doesn't play. You know, you already said that. So how does a team talk themselves into investing into Ja Morant at this point?

John Hollinger (8:42)

I think it's. I think it's a couple of things. I think Ja is younger. So you think, you think maybe you give yourself a little more Runway. The extra year on his deal could be seen as a feature and not a bug like Trey. You have to deal with this contract right away almost.

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John Hollinger (8:57)

And you, you have a little more time with Ja to, to play things out and see, you know, but before you really have to make a decision on paying him. And so from what I'm told that the market is going to end up being a little stronger for, for jaw than it will Be for Trey. I mean, we'll see here the, the other thing with Ja, because he has more time left on his deal, the Grizzlies might be more amenable to taking deals back that have time on them also. So it may be the type of thing where, okay, you get a first round pick, but you're also getting a contract that is undesirable and has three years left to run.

Ben (9:32)

Now we've, we've heard a few different landing spots. I know Miami's been in there. We've heard Milwaukee. What are the teams that you're hearing in terms of where he could potentially go?

John Hollinger (9:42)

Yeah, I think Miami and Milwaukee are both possibilities. I think Toronto is definitely a team to watch. I do think they have some urgency there to make some things happen at the trade deadline. So that could be a possibility. Well, I mean, and Quickly. Quickly's contract is not great. So if you have Quickly as the matching contract, then you're not holding your nose so much on Morant's deal. And there's just a question of what does Toronto have to do to kind of spice things up enough for Memphis to offset that. So you, you can see how that type of deal can get to the finish line.

Dave DeFore (10:16)

Well, also quickly plays. So if you're Memphis, you just need a guy who can play point guard sometimes. If, if you just. If you're going to try to compete, which I think that maybe becomes a bigger question for, for Memphis is where do they go? So John Morant trade.

John Hollinger (10:30)

Because I've had people tell me now Memphis insists this is not the case. We have people tell me that like, okay, what happens now with Jaren is the next thing you know, because they could, they could decide at some point to move on from Jaren and do more of a down to the studs rebuild. I think the Grizzlies still think their core is too good to do that. That even what they have right now with Edie and Coward and, and Jaren and their bench is really good. They. That they just need one or two frontline guys and then they're right back in the thick of things in the West. I think that's, that's their conception of their team anyway. So now maybe in another year they changed their tune on that too, but that, that's where they are right now.

Ben (11:12)

Do we think that the statistical decline that we've seen Jaw had this season, he's not shooting as well from the floor. He's missed 20 games so far this season. We know the explosiveness is there. We know the capability is there, but the numbers are the lowest of his career. Do we think that that is going to impact the package that teams are willing to provide for him?

John Hollinger (11:31)

I don't think so, because I think teams understand that there was other things going on that impacted those numbers this year. So if you're trading for him, you're not expecting to get the guy from 2022, I think. I think that that scenario is like the fantasy upside, you know, if everything goes perfect. But realistically, can you get the job when he played from two years ago, from last year, who is still. When he played, a really good player again, has not played more than six consecutive games in nearly three years due to injuries and suspensions and other various things. Yeah.

Dave DeFore (12:09)

Zena's face when you said that, by the way, I did not know that I want a gif of that because that was shocking when I read it. And I. You know, we watch as many games as maybe anybody out there. And just to. To think he. He hasn't strung together more than six games in that long is. Is pretty absurd, even for a guy who doesn't play, you know, 60 games in the season. You wrote about the John Morant trade over at the Athletic, and if you guys want more context on that, definitely go over there and read it. But you also mentioned Michael Porter Jr. Yeah. Is he a lock to move by the deadline?

John Hollinger (12:43)

So I had somebody tell me this, and I was surprised because I did not think this in my mind. So Brooklyn owns a pick swap, owes a pick swap to Houston next year, and Michael Porter's under contract for next year, and he has been playing great for the Nets. So in my mind, Brooklyn would say, okay, let's keep this guy next year when we're actually trying to win. And what I was told was that actually it's kind of the opposite. And the Nets would like to sell high right now, and then they can come back and reload the trough later and try to put their team together for next year. But if you don't really think that Porter's your guy there for the long term, that the move is to cash in right now, because after. Once you get into next year, he's got one year on his deal. You got to pay him or extend him or do whatever. If you're not willing to do that and you don't think he's you, you can rely on him to be part of kind of a core going beyond that, then your best move is to move him right now for value and then maybe turn that Value into the guys you really believe in.

Ben (13:41)

Now, I've heard a lot of folks have heard, you know, John, we just saw each other out in the Bay, and I feel like that is a landing spot for a good old boy. Mpj, thoughts on this framework that people are trying to put together, including multiple teams, and we know it took multiple teams to get the Jimmy Butler trade done.

John Hollinger (14:00)

Yeah. What are the chances?

Ben (14:01)

They're repeating history here.

John Hollinger (14:03)

Yeah. I mean, just for Golden State to take in 40 is tough. I mean, they can get there, but they. Again, it has to be multiple players. And you're. The thing is, because Brooklyn is already 15 million under the cap, it's a little easier to stuff money into. Into a deal with them than it is with some other teams. So I could. I. I mean, that is plausible to me. That obviously is. Kamingo would be in it. And then it's a question of what asset wise would Golden State want to put in beyond that? Because they. They can get to Porter's salary with like, I'm. I'm doing this off the top of my head, but Kaminga and Moody and one other guy, and you're basically there. So I don't think that's going to be a massive barrier for Golden State. I think it's more. Would they have enough draft capital to satisfy Brooklyn and have the best offer? And then second to that, are they okay going forward having Porter at 40 and Steph at his money and Draymond at his money and Jimmy at his money? That's for that. Right. You. You don't really have much of a chance to build much else around that. Right. When you. When you get into that, you're going to be in the tax. You're going to be limited, you know, taxpayer exceptions, second April and all that bunch of minimum guys. And that's kind of what's hurting Golden State right now is that they just don't have enough. Enough quality after their top guys. So.

Ben (15:29)

Yeah.

John Hollinger (15:30)

That's an interesting one, though.

Ben (15:31)

Yeah. What does their future look like? If you're giving away draft capital to get guys, you got to win now and then who knows what your future.

John Hollinger (15:38)

Is going to look like?

Ben (15:39)

Yeah, yeah.

John Hollinger (15:40)

They're like a win now team that isn't quite good enough to win now. And so there's a way they're getting team.

Dave DeFore (15:45)

I mean, listen, you know, they could. They could maybe make it out of the plan.

John Hollinger (15:50)

Shout out. Shout out. Chicago Bulls. Right?

Dave DeFore (15:52)

That's right.

John Hollinger (15:53)

So the other day, I think. I think that's a real. I think that's. That's a real issue that. I mean, when you get a Jimmy Butler level player, that's one thing. If they could get, like, Giannis, that's another thing. But Porter, like, Porter's good. Don't get me wrong. Like, he's just not. Not at that level where he's going to move the needle that much if you're basically an average team.

Dave DeFore (16:11)

Yeah. The other day I had Sam Amick on the show and I asked him for a surpr surprise name that might pop up during trade discussions. He said zion. And since then, the. The Pelicans have come out and said, no, we're not moving any of these guys that everybody wants. Can you give us a surprise name? Like, what's a name that we're going to hear over the course of the next few weeks that may shock us?

John Hollinger (16:31)

I mean, is. Is Daniel Gafford enough of a surprise? I don't know, like, that. That to me is the.

Dave DeFore (16:37)

Yeah.

John Hollinger (16:38)

That nobody talks about him, but he's a good player. He's going to help somebody a lot. And. And now that a. Now that the AD conversation has kind of move injury, I think teams are going to start talking about Gafford a little more.

Dave DeFore (16:50)

Yeah. I mean, he is at least going to be maybe one of the more impactful names. I mean, because we're talking about Trey maybe not playing. Who knows what happens, depending on where Ja goes. Yeah, that's a good. I like that name, though. Guys, stick around. After the break. We're going to ask Jon about some of the rookies that he's seen and why we've underrated Con canipple.

Ben (17:15)

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Dave DeFore (18:45)

If you guys follow John's writing, you know that he's always on the road. Whether he's watching, you know, the Sacramento Kings somehow beat the Rockets or he's going to some college tournament up in Seattle, Washington to watch five or six games in a day. This guy watches more basketball than me. And that's a lot.

Ben (19:04)

I mean, a lot.

Dave DeFore (19:04)

This one of one of maybe five people I know that watches more basketball than me. So, John, look, you've been on these rookies for years. You, you know them well. We are kind of in love with this class. It's amazing the talent that, that we've seen so far. I hear 2026 is going to be even better. Who stood out to you in the rookie class? I mean, obviously Cooper flag and conquer Nipple and we'll talk about them. But who stood out to you the most so far?

John Hollinger (19:30)

I mean, Coop's got to be the number one guy still. But I mean, to me, Con Cany Nipple has been even better than I thought and more quickly than I thought. His, his ability to do the little kung fu off arm fighting that you have to do in the NBA when you drive the basketball like he is strong. He wards guys off and then he stops and they keep going and end up under the stanchion. He's got a nice little 15 footer. He can really shoot. He can shoot off a movement different platforms, but the, the. He's not just a shooter. And I think people kind of pegged him as that coming in and he, he's just got a lot more to his game. He's a good passer. He doesn't force anything. He can take a hit at the rim. So even though he's not a, a nuclear vertical athlete, I mean, he can get a, he can get a lot of stuff done just with his, with his shooting ability and his power.

Ben (20:30)

I feel like when on draft night when he was called, my immediate instinct was like, oh, great. Like Lamelo can do the drive thing. Brandon Miller, like you guys do the in the paint thing. You guys play up and down. They've got an outside shooter, they've Spaced it out. Great to see him. Playmaking and creating has been incredibly impressive, but it also worked out that he's in a position and on a team where that can be showcased when you look at his teammate, his former Duke teammate, Cooper Flagg. Initially, Cooper didn't quite have that ability to be drafted into a position that worked for him. It seems like Dallas has found a gem in Ryan Emhard, and they've been able to find someone that allows Cooper Flagg to now play more into his position, play off the ball, be able to do things more so on the wing. What do you make of that evolution that Cooper has had from those first few games where he saw. He's definitely playing out of position with the ball in his hands way more to now what we're seeing now?

John Hollinger (21:31)

Yeah. Who would have thought that a guy that played for his whole career would struggle as an NBA point guard? You know, there from day one, Jason.

Dave DeFore (21:38)

Kid believes in these guys, man.

Ben (21:40)

Yeah, that's true. Jason Kid's like, you can be me.

John Hollinger (21:42)

You can be me. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I thought they really put Cooper in the most impossible position to succeed at the start of the year. Just. It wasn't just that, like, they were playing these crazy, huge lineups. Not much spacing, not much ability for him to get into a slashing game, really put it on him to be an outside shooter, which is probably the weakest part of his game. So now I. I think things have moved to the point where, like, okay, he's playing as a forward now, he's playing as a secondary ball handler, or when he does handle the ball, he's handling the ball against other six, eight guys, and it's. It's just a different game for him now. I think it's much more comfortable for him, like you said, with Nemhard out there. Just like having a. Having a real point guard on that team has made a huge difference. It's actually. I mean, it's really helped Brandon Williams, too, actually, because now he comes in off the bench and all he does is get points, which is all he wants to do anyway. He doesn't have to come in there at the start of the game. And, like, I got to get AD Involved. I got a Cooper involved. I've. I've never done this before. Like, I don't know.

Dave DeFore (22:44)

Like.

John Hollinger (22:46)

So I. I just think it's worked out better for. For everyone there. And. And I think actually playing without AD it will help Cooper a little too, I think, because I. I think there's just more space out there for the other Babs when they play without A.D. i mean, even though they'll, you know, they'll get cooked on defense now, but offensively, I think it's going to make, like, somewhat easier for Coop.

Dave DeFore (23:09)

Actually, before we get out of here, I'm going to ask you, who's your favorite guy in the 2026 draft, and where would you like to see him go?

John Hollinger (23:18)

Oh, you mean, like, kind of little undervalued or whatever?

Dave DeFore (23:21)

Yeah, sure.

John Hollinger (23:23)

So I think there's a clear 1, 2, 3. I don't think Caleb Wilson from North Carolina is getting enough. Shine is like, the number four guy in this draft. I mean, he does. He. He has some really explosive plays in transition. Like, skinny guy who can still really rebound. That takes him, like, right off the rim, like above the. Above the square. Like, it hits the rim, bounces up, and he just, like, grabs, not waiting.

Ben (23:47)

Yeah, I like that.

John Hollinger (23:50)

Really good. Playing off of. Playing off of spins like you would think again. Nice skinny guy like that. He might, you know, get shoved off, bounce or whatever. No, no, he just, like, dribbles into a guy, turns and, like, gets an advantage, goes right over him. Really impressive that way. Needs to improve. His outside shot is the biggest thing. But I. I really like him. I've been really impressed both times I've seen him in person this year. And so we'll, you know, we'll see what he does the second half of the season. I'm going to see Duke in Carolina a couple of weeks. I'll see him in the ACC tournament. So. Yeah. Excited for him, though. Think he. Think he's number four right now and still has a chance to push in that top three where it's. I mean, it's going to be tough. I mean, Boozer, the kid from Kansas whose name I'm blanking on. Peterson. Yeah. Thank you. And AJ DeBancer, who I just. Who I just saw score 20 against Utah even though they were doubling him on every play. I mean, that's. It's a really impressive top three, but I think it's actually a really impressive top four.

Dave DeFore (24:48)

Wow.

John Hollinger (24:49)

Okay.

Dave DeFore (24:49)

See, now that's news to me because I've just heard the top three and then top six. So top three and then the next three guys are pretty good. But you're telling me that Caleb Williams might break into that?

John Hollinger (25:00)

Yes. He's got. He's got. He's got. He's got a shot to breaking that top three to me.

Dave DeFore (25:04)

All right, where. Where do you want to see these guys go? Who do you want to win the lottery? I mean, just for your own entertainment purposes, who do you, who would you like to see win the lottery?

John Hollinger (25:12)

I mean, for the love of God, can we have an east team win it for once.

Dave DeFore (25:18)

And help?

John Hollinger (25:19)

Obviously. There you go. You know, I live in Atlanta. They have the better of New Orleans or Milwaukee. So they basically could get two shots at it in this lottery. So, you know. Okay, I'm going to. I'm going to go homer here.

Dave DeFore (25:33)

All right.

John Hollinger (25:35)

Don't just give him the recession lottery. Like, come on, come on.

Ben (25:37)

I mean, Jalen Johnson is the real triple double.

John Hollinger (25:41)

Amazing. Yeah.

Dave DeFore (25:42)

So good. All right, guys, go and read John over at the Athletic. Not only does he have great basketball knowledge, insider knowledge from his time at front office, but also pretty good takes on. On hotels, I guess, if you believe his article from today. Thank you, John, for hanging out with us. Thanks to Xena, as always. I'm Dave Defore and this is Ben, the NBA daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

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