Upside down night in the NBA + LeBron keeps streak alive

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Upside Down Night in the NBA + LeBron Keeps Streak Alive
Date: December 2, 2025
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita
Guest: Hunter Patterson

---

Episode Overview

This episode recaps a wild night in the NBA where favored teams suffered upset losses, a deep dive into the Pistons-Hawks matchup, and recognition of some remarkable individual achievements. The crew dissects key games, discusses breakout performances, and explores what these surprising results say about several contenders. Notable attention is given to LeBron James and his astonishingly enduring 10-point streak, plus conversation about young stars and their roles on emerging teams.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Upset Night – Top Teams Fall to Underdogs

• Main Theme: Several top teams, namely the Bucks, Rockets, Nuggets, and Lakers, unexpectedly lost to teams with much poorer records.

• Bucks’ Loss to the Wizards

  • The hosts unanimously agree this was the most shocking result, given the Wizards’ dismal season and missing players.
  • Zena Keita: “The fact that Washington had two wins on the season and they didn’t have Alex Saar available... that’s a lock-in game—scheduled L for the Wizards.” (03:34)
  • The “old heads” (Chris Middleton and C.J. McCollum) spurred the Wizards, highlighting that experience mattered in crunch time.

• Rockets Stumbling against the Jazz

  • Dave: “They just completely crush the Jazz on Sunday… Monday, they look bad, real bad. To start the game, Kevin Durant winds up going 10 of 25... but he did not look very sharp.” (04:54)
  • Zena points out back-to-back fatigue and the improvement of Keonte George for Utah (8 turnovers, then 28 points and stellar play next night).

• Nuggets Losing Streak – Defensive Woes

  • Dave criticizes Nikola Jokic's defensive effort: “...their defense, but so is Nikola Jokic. Nikola Jokic is killing their defense.” (07:56)
  • The Mavericks' Ryan Nemhard has a historic night (see below).

2. Historic Rookie Performances

• Ryan Nemhard’s (Mavericks) Breakout Game

  • Zena: “First point guard in NBA history to record over 25 points, over 10 assists with zero turnovers, on 100% true shooting.” (08:41)
  • He’s a two-way contract player who’s forced Dallas to trust him with Jason Kidd, showcasing high IQ and methodical offense.

• Spencer Jones (Mavs) Noticed for Shooting

  • Dave: “I haven’t seen a guy shoot like that since the old Double Dribble game on Nintendo ... but it goes in, man!” (10:10)

3. Suns vs. Lakers – New Faces Step Up

• Colin Gillespie’s Deep Shooting

  • Dave revels in the Suns bench player’s 28-point show, going 8 of 14 from three.
  • Zena on the Suns’ culture: “I loved the energy that Dylan Brooks played with ... he is a culture setter and has totally changed who the Suns are.” (12:25)

• LeBron’s Streak Continues

  • Dave: “LeBron James’ 10-point streak still alive. It’s been going since the Bush Administration, folks.” (14:18)
  • The hosts joke about how long the streak may last.

---

4. Deep Dive: Pistons Edge Hawks Without Trae Young

[with Hunter Patterson, from 19:41]

Pistons’ Gritty Defense and Emerging Stars

• Hunter: “They just love muddied up, kind of not clean games that always come down to the wire ... different closing lineup ... Cade, Asar, Charis, and the Double Big lineup—Stu and Duran.” (20:11)
• Zena breaks down the Pistons’ versatility, excited by the “Double Big” approach and Jalen Duren’s improved ball-handling and physicality.

Clutch Play & Offensive Questions

• Cade Cunningham's Growth
  • Zena: “Most fourth-quarter points this season, third most points in the clutch.” (21:01)
  • The challenge: Who supports Cade in crunch time?
  • Hunter: “Probably a combination of him and J.D. ... they connect well in pick and roll situations.” (22:18)

Defensive Identity

• Dave: “Running... this big lineup... Cade Cunningham, Beef Stew, Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Duren. That's so much rim protection... nine blocks against the Hawks.” (23:37)
• Hunter: “Stu had five blocks tonight, Cade had three. Cade also had five steals... [he] guards the perimeter well.” (24:45)

Ron Holland’s Role and Growth

• Depth and Adaptability
  • Zena highlights improved discipline and efficiency: “Tonight was probably his most complete game of the season... way more disciplined now and way more efficient with his time.” (27:05)
  • Hunter: “[Ron] enjoys ... getting dirty and grimy and just buying into what makes this team what it is defensively... versatility is one of the most special parts about his game.” (28:08)

Jalen Johnson Shines for Hawks

• Hunter: “He had an amazing game, put up 29, 13 rebounds, 7 assists. The guy is a Swiss Army knife... seems like when he’s at his best.” (30:00)
• Dave: “You look at that little dunk score on NBA.com... he is a monster.” (30:40)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Upset Night:
  • Zena Keita [on the Bucks losing to the Wizards]:

    "Whatever you thought was gonna happen, flip that on its head." (02:31)

• On Ryan Nemhard’s breakout:
  • Zena:

    "This guy’s on a two way, by the way. Like Dallas is going to have to sign him before he gets to that 50 game mark. He has earned the trust of Jason Kidd because he is a heady player." (09:16)

• LeBron’s Streak:
  • Dave:

    "LeBron James 10 point streak still alive. So it has been going since the Bush administration, folks." (14:18)
    "His 10 point scoring streak can vote in next year's election." (14:23)

• On Colin Gillespie’s Heat Check:
  • Zena:

    “He was just, I mean, it was just instantaneous. He had a bright green light.” (14:02)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:07 - Open, introducing the episode’s theme of “upside down” NBA night
• 03:12 - Bucks’ shocking loss to Wizards analysis
• 04:47 - Rockets’ letdown against Jazz
• 07:34 - Nuggets’ home loss and defensive struggles
• 08:41 - Ryan Nemhard’s historic rookie performance
• 10:05 - Spencer Jones’ shooting form
• 11:24 - Colin Gillespie’s breakout for Phoenix
• 13:59 - LeBron’s streak discussed
• 19:41 - Pistons vs. Hawks in-depth segment with Hunter Patterson
• 21:01 - Cade Cunningham’s clutch stats
• 23:37 - Pistons’ elite defensive performance
• 27:05 - Ron Holland's emergence as a key depth piece
• 29:24 - Jalen Johnson’s rising star for the Hawks

---

Tone & Style

The hosts display an enthusiastic and conversational tone, laced with humor and genuine excitement about breakout performances and NBA chaos. They combine knowledgeable analysis with fun, relatable commentary, making the episode lively and engaging for hoop fans and casual listeners alike.

---

Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a whirlwind recap of an unpredictable NBA night, topped by a focus on the surging Pistons, standout rookie performances, and the lasting greatness of LeBron James. The hosts expertly blend statistical analysis, storytelling, and light-hearted banter, making sense of major upsets and spotlighting both rising and established stars. Whether you missed the games or just want deeper context, this episode delivers insight with personality and plenty of passion for basketball.

Transcript

[A]

So good, so good, so good. Just in thousands of winter arrivals at your Nordstrom rack store, save up to 70% on coats, slippers and cashmere from Kate Spade, New York, Vince Ugg, Levi's and more. Check out these boots.

[B]

They've got the best gifts.

[A]

My holiday shopping hack join the Nordiclobe. Get an extra 5% off every rack purchase with your Nordstrom credit card. Plus buy it online and pick it up in store the same day for free. Big gifts, big per. That's why you rack. Hear that? It's holiday cheer arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte, Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.

[C]

Hey, Andrew Schlecht here. The NBA on Prime is back this Friday with another great doubleheader. The action starts with one of the best rivalries in sports as Luka Doncic and the Los Angeles Lakers face Jaylen Brown and the Boston Celtics. Then Cooper Flag and the Dallas Mavericks meet SGA and the Oklahoma City Thunder. If you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. The Lakers and Celtics, the Mavericks and Thunder both really intriguing matchups. What can the potential rookie of the year do against the potent Thunder defense? And then Luka. Just doing anything is magical against this frisky Boston Celtics team that is led by Jaylen Brown, who's had a really nice year. Coverage starts Friday at 6:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[D]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for December 2, 2025. I'm Dave DeFore here with Zena Keda coming up. Last night was upset night. A bunch of good teams lost to bad teams. We're going to talk about that. And we have Hunter Patterson on to talk about the Pistons holding off the Hawks and a big win. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Xena. Hope you recovered from the weird night last night.

[A]

It was very weird. Whatever you thought was gonna happen, flip that on its head.

[D]

I wanted, I wanted to say, you know, Thanksgiving hangover games or something like that. But no, all of these teams have played since Thanksgiving, including the Rockets beating. I mean, they destroyed the Utah Jazz yesterday on Sunday before just looking completely out of sorts for most of the game and losing to the Jazz. Unexpectedly, if we were to rank the losses for the Rockets, the. The Lakers, the Bucks, and the Nuggets from last night. Zeno, who had the worst loss to you?

[A]

I. I think I gotta go with the Bucks. I gotta go with the Bucks.

[D]

Well, it's the Wizards.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. You just gotta look at the timeline here. So they. They lose seven in a row and they beat the Nets. And you're like, okay, they're going to come up. Come up here. They're about to play the Nets. They're going to Washington Wizards. These are the two worst teams in the league right now. This is where you get your confidence back.

[D]

It's the Get Right games.

[A]

It was the get Right games. Exactly. And the fact that Washington had two wins on the season and they didn't have Alex Saar available to play. So it was like, oh, bet that's a. That's a lock in game scheduled. L for the Wizards. And what I love the Chef's kiss about the way that the Wizards want this game. It was behind the old heads.

[D]

That's right.

[A]

We've seen the. The shift of what the Bucks wanted to get rid of the older guys away from Giannis. Right. Replenish the team with some younger talent. And don't get me wrong, Kevin Porter came back in his second game off his knee injury, played phenomenally 30 points. Like eight made threes. He was awesome, don't get me wrong. But when you looked at the steady, heady big plays down the stretch, Chris Middleton had the go ahead three pointer and had a jump shot, got fouled to be able to even get them in the position to tie it up and then go into that three pointer that won the game. But then C.J. mcCollum, 28 points as well. These aren't. These aren't the young guys taking over and beating this team. It was a balanced effort, but it was the old heads that were able to say, you know, Giannis, you might miss us. You might.

[D]

Chris Middleton revenge game is. Is always a fun time. Okay, so the Rockets, though, Zeno, like, what happened with them?

[B]

They.

[D]

They just completely crush the Jazz on Sunday. Kevin Durant's first game back. He looks amazing. You fast forward to Monday. They look bad, real bad. To start the game, Kevin Durant winds up going 10 of 25. He does wind up scoring 32 points, but he did not look very sharp doing it. Meanwhile, the Jazz just like, especially down the stretch, they were able to answer the Rockets every single time.

[A]

Yeah, it was a balanced effort. From the Utah Jazz, which you couldn't quite see that with Houston. I feel like Houston was really forcing shots as you mentioned. It just didn't look as sharp offensively as what we've seen Houston be. This is why they are the third ranked offense in the league. But against Utah, you just saw the pressure outside particularly really make Houston uncomfortable in trying to set up whatever they want to do outside. Kevin Durant was turning the ball over. There was a lot of one on one ISO opportunities. They started strong, don't get me wrong. But then there was a run at the top of the second quarter that Utah literally just tapped into. Everyone down their stretch, it was Laurie, Markkanen, Yusuf, Nurkic. Like everyone had a few layups, a few shots. Makaylu, Keonte George, you know, had three pointers in that run and they kept that run. They were able to sustain that run. And that's huge for Utah to have young guys that have really struggled to close all season long to be able to keep and sustain that, that lead against Houston. But the biggest difference, I don't, I don't want to put too much stock into this loss for Houston, number one, it was a back to back. Houston hasn't had many back to backs. They're actually pretty behind in comparison to the rest of the league in the amount of back to back games they've had this season. But second game of back to back and then the biggest factor, Keon George.

[D]

The night before, night and day difference.

[A]

00 for points, 2 assists, 8 turnovers. Like he did not have a good game and the Utah Jazz overall did not have a good game. The ball was not hopping the way we saw it last night against Houston versus the next night. 28 points goes off like making threes, dunks in transition, like going on people's heads. Like he was everywhere getting to his spots. It was a lot of fun to watch Utah, but I, I'm not putting too much in this.

[D]

No, no, no, no. And, and for real, like they had a back to back with the same team on the road. You, you're probably going to lose one of those. And Utah is a, they are decent team. They're not, they're really not awful. I mean, you know, Lowry market is a very good player and we, we talked about Keonte George and some of the stuff that he's shown this year. Yeah, you can't win every game but.

[A]

Hey, big win for Utah.

[D]

I do, I do. I'm going to change my tune for the Denver Nuggets because the Denver Nuggets losing to the Dallas Mavericks is just downright sad. They've lost four straight games at home. The Denver Nuggets are supposed to be one of the title favorites. And I understand, look, they're down two starters. They're down Christian Brown and they're down Aaron Gordon and, and it is killing their defense, but so is Nicola Jokic. Nicola Jokic is killing their defense. I mean, someone put together a super cut from one of his games the other night and it is awful. I mean, it is just like, please try, just try. But Denver not looking great. On the other hand, the Mavericks might have found, you know, like a little bit of footing here. Right. We talked about Cooper Flag coming in a little bit out of position that, hey, you're going to be the point guard as soon as they've paired him with guards regularly. He has been fantastic. And I, I thought last night, again, he is on a run now of just putting together complete game after complete game after complete game. He was great. Mav's best game of the season maybe.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Favorite statistics or like stat facts coming out of this game. Ryan Emhard, first point guard in NBA history to record over 25 points, over 10 assists with zero turnovers, on 100% true shooting, first point guard in NBA history. Okay, then let's keep it going. Ryan Mhart is the first rookie to have a game with more than 25 points, more than 10 assists, with zero free throw attempts since. Take a wild guess.

[D]

Oh, I mean, Steph Curry, his brother in 2023.

[A]

Okay, is that great?

[D]

That's pretty cool.

[A]

I just love how much Ryan Nemhardt has just like risen to the occasion. This guy's on a two way, by the way. Like Dallas is going to have to sign him before he gets to that 50 game mark. He's on a two way. He has earned the trust of Jason Kidd because he is a heady player. He is just like his brother. People like this is what he does. He has a high IQ of the game. You saw him throughout this game just like prodding around the trees, doing just enough on his screens, being really methodical about how he got past folks and then being able to pick up the speed once he realized he pulled someone and being able to pull up in transition position. Like there was one move he had over Spencer Jones, who, by the way, we should absolutely call out.

[D]

The fact that found money, by the way, this is the silver lining of having a couple guys out is that Spencer Jones is a, is a real basketball player.

[A]

Yes. I mean he Was shooting out there like he made up the act. But now on the other.

[D]

I haven't seen a guy shoot like that since the old double dribble game on Nintendo. I mean, he. If you guys haven't seen Spencer Jones, if you haven't seen his shooting form, it is the exact. I mean, he's got this little lean thing happening. It's, it's. It's jarring to see, but it goes in, man. I mean, he could shoot.

[A]

Listen, I think it's beautiful because it goes in. Exactly. That's right. I'm like, that's what matters. It's different. It's different. But he was the main reason that the Nuggets were up in the first part of that game. 41 points in the first quarter. And then it was Ryan, them hard time and he goes 100% in the second quarter for 11 points, then does it again in the third quarter with 15 points. And Ryan Emhard, like, he had some, like, AI moves out there, like getting guys to pull up, crossing over, rejecting screens. Two dribble. I was just. It was beautiful to watch. You want to talk about somebody that has a pretty shot? Ryan M. Hart. Spencer Jones puts it in, though. Yeah. Yeah. This is really special for the Mavs to have been able to find because we know without Kyrie Irving, the calling was supposed to be d' Angelo Russell.

[D]

Right.

[A]

And now you see him on the bench behind the likes of Jaden Hardy, behind the likes of Andrew Nemhardt. And this could be something here for the maps.

[D]

Yeah. And finally, Xena. You ever heard of Colin Gillespie? I mean, of course you have, but had you heard of him before last night?

[A]

Is it Gillespie or Gillespie?

[D]

I mean, you know, to be fair, I don't listen to a lot of broadcasts, so. Yeah, and I will read, you know, I read his name, so I'm hoping it's Gillespie. The common pronunciation, the hard G there. He had 28 points, was 8 of 14 from three. Absolutely on fire against the Lakers last night. The Suns continue to be scrappy and the Suns did this. Xena, Devin Booker, they lost him in the first quarter to a groin injury. So for most of the game, they did not have Devin Booker, but they had Dylan Brooks, who just again, this guy has turned into, I don't know, an actual shooter. Number one, where you were scared when he's open. But number two, he is a culture setter and he has totally changed who the Suns are.

[A]

No, I loved the energy that Dylan Brooks played with because I really think it set the tone for How Phoenix showed up and how they've been showing up. Like they've been a team that runs like crazy on teams and they play really tough defense against you and like that starts really with Devin Booker. And I think that this is something that I all of us underestimated just how much of a culture ad Dillon Brooks would be alongside the likes of a Dylan Devin Booker. Because we saw Devin Booker have to be the offensive generator for his team, but we knew he was capable of defense. But when you have to do so much offensively, you can't quite get that out there. Now it's a much more balanced attack in terms of the production defensively and offensively and the whole team is bought in. And when you've got Dillon Brooks practically growling after he's scoring or getting in passing lanes, like it just energizes you in a different way. And then you already have the athleticism of your bigs like Mark Williams. And then you add in Ryan Dunn and Iguidaro and you also have the scoring capability of Colin. It's like, yeah, this makes a lot of sense that they're running teams out and they're performing incredibly well in the West.

[D]

Yeah, I mean look, he was 8 of 14 from 3. He had a really nice finish. Late night game. I mean it wasn't even close for, for most of the second half. They just.

[A]

What was the. I did listen to that broadcast at the end and I just love this godlike range.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

It was crazy what Colin was putting up.

[D]

Oh yeah, he was just, I mean it was just instantaneous. He had a bright green light. And we should note LeBron James 10 point streak still alive. So it has been going since the Bush administration, folks.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, that is a joke.

[D]

Legitimately. Xena, his 10 point scoring streak can vote in next year's election.

[A]

Can, can. Can his street drink?

[D]

Not yet, but I have a feeling, I mean, look, you know, it's one of these things where we are now at the point where LeBron decides when this is over, not the streak, because the streak really did almost end, you know, and he get four points in the third quarter that I will say, look, he hit a three, you know, it's garbage time. I'm not going to take it away from him. I won't disparage him. But this streak could go on as long as he wants. I mean, 10 points, LeBron can probably score that until he's 50. So I think that that's maybe, maybe it'll get drinking age. We'll see. I guess we'll find out probably at the end of the season. Guys, stick around after the break. I'm pretty sure Hunter Patterson's drinking age, but I don't know for sure he's here to talk about the Pistons.

[C]

Foreign Hey, Andrew Schlecht here. The NBA on Prime is back this Friday with another great doubleheader. The action starts with one of the best rivalries in sports as Luka Doncic and the Los Angeles Lakers face Jaylen Brown and the Boston Celtics. Then Cooper Flag and the Dallas Mavericks meet SGA and the Oklahoma City Thunder. If you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get get started today. The Lakers and Celtics the Mavericks and Thunder both really intriguing matchups. What can the potential Rookie of the Year do against the potent Thunder defense? And then Luca just doing anything is magical against this frisky Boston Celtics team that is led by Jaylen Brown, who's had a really nice year. Coverage starts Friday at 6:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7, so when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network, and get qualified candidates that can manage all in one place. I've been in a position where I need to hire many times and I never had the luxury of having LinkedIn jobs help me. As a user of LinkedIn jobs now I find it incredibly easy to find the most qualified candidates. Here's how LinkedIn jobs works. Number one post your job. LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. You can post your job for free or you can pay to promote promoted jobs. Get three times more qualified applications. Number two get qualified candidates. And at the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates. And finally, share it with your network. You can let your network know that you're hiring. You can even add the hashtag hiring frame to your personal profile and get two times more qualified candidates. Find out why more than two and a half million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Athletic MBA that's LinkedIn.com Athletic MBA to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Gab. It's that time of year again. The holidays are coming fast and if your kids are anything like mine, that list is already getting pretty long. And let's be honest, some of the things on that list make us stop and think like a smartphone. I've got three boys that are all of age to have a smartphone. I'm telling you, it's something that we talk about constantly and there are tons of concerns around it. And that's why I was so relieved when I found Gab. Gab offers phones and watches made just for kids. No Internet, no social media, and just the right features for their age. Kids want phones to feel independent and connected. As parents, we want them to know they're safe. With Gab, you can have both and protect them from scary stuff. With Gab's tech and steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time. From watches with GPS tracking for the youngest explorers to the perfect first phone with no Internet or social media to the teen phone with parent approved apps. So get ready for a Christmas morning they'll never forget the one where they get their first phone. And really it's a gift for you too because these kids safe phones will give you peace of mind. Visit gab.com mbadaily and use the code NBA Daily for a special holiday offer. That's gabb.com NBA Daily Gab Tech and Steps Independence for them. Peace of mind for you.

[D]

Xena. We like to pick our favorite teams around here and last night had a pretty fun game. Our Pistons and our Hawks without Trey Young. I know. And our man Hunter Patterson was in the building for it. Hunter is here. The Pistons, I mean look man, they've won 15 to 17, get a big win over a over a really tough Hawks team thanks to Cade Cunningham taking over the last three and a half minutes of this game. Tell me about these Pistons, man, it's been a minute, but they keep winning.

[B]

It seems like they just love muddied up kind of not clean games that always come down to the wire. This. This kind of just seems like the norm with them. But they did have a different closing lineup than they usually do. Duncan was out tonight. He missed his first game of the season with an ankle sprain and they ended up closing the game with Cade, Asar Charis and the Double Big lineup they like to call it between Stu and Duran. And JB mentioned post game that that lineup just gives them a lot of versatility both ends of the floor. It allows them to get out and run where they're best in transition. So I think although it came down to the wire like they usually do, this was just kind of another win where they were able to figure it out in an unconventional way.

[A]

I love the JD and Stu lineup. I'm going to dig deeper into finding out more about how they match up as a Double Big lineup in comparison to others because the fact that Stu can hit that outside shot as well as bang down low in the post and rebound so hard alongside. Well, we saw Jalen Duran pulling out his handle against the Hawks as well. Dribble on baseline going past folks. I mean, a crossover that I did not know was in his bag. So I do love the fact that the bigs are doing their thing, but my, I'm focusing on this backcourt situation like Kate Cunningham. Most fourth quarter points this season, third most points in the clutch. And we know when you're thinking about a team that has championship aspirations, which they all do, but teams that are actually close to it, teams that only have one closer limits them right in the long term. And I'm looking at Cade. We know he's been a closer, he's capable of doing this. But we're seeing, you know, Caris LeVert pick up a little bit more of his production alongside him. There's more options, I think, that are rising as a second option alongside Cade. But this has been a thing anyone on your radar that you see that could be that next person alongside Kade, so he doesn't have to shoulder that burden. Particularly in the fourth quarter in the clutch.

[B]

I think it's probably a combination of him and J.D. they just, they, they connect well in pick and roll situations. Like you mentioned, JD Was taking Mogay off the dribble. He was even kind of getting to it with Big O Onyeka Kongwu getting past him. And he's, he's just showing more versatility as, as far as his ball handling, I won't say three level scoring because he, he mentioned that the three point shot, but he hasn't really taken many of those, if any, this season. But he's, that's the only reason I.

[A]

Don'T have him on my radar is that second option because he can't hit that outside Shot consistently just yet. But yeah, I do like J.D.

[B]

Yeah, he's, he's one option. I think Charis, he's shown over his career. He's, he's had the ability to go for big games. He's still kind of in the process of just finding out where he's best with this Pistons team. But I, I think as of now it seems like it's shaping up to be cares JD A little bit as well. Ron had six fourth quarter points, although he didn't, didn't close with the closing group that I mentioned earlier. But I think that's part of one of the challenges that they're still trying to figure out on this team as far as who is that second scorer that that can create their own outside of Cade.

[D]

I think it's unconventional, but it is Duran right now. You know this guy like you watch the way he can put the ball on the floor. He just kind of has a knack for getting himself into position to score. And then once the passing comes out of that, which we've seen a little bit more this, this season, I think he's going to have even more scoring opportunities with the ball in his hands. It's just going to be about seeing the court for him. But I want to talk about this Pistons defense because right now like they've got the third ranked defense in the league. They just held the Hawks to 98 points. That's only the second time all season that the Hawks have been held under a hundred. And they're running like you said, this big lineup that they're running out there with Cade Cunningham, Beef Stew, Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Duran. That's so much rim protection. They had nine blocks in the game against the Hawks, one of the longest and most athletic teams in the league. They don't get blocked a ton and Jaylen Duran didn't have one. I mean that just tells you like they are just have a glut of rim protection. How are you feeling about their defense up front and on the perimeter? I mean, is this a team that by the time we get to the playoffs we're talking about them as maybe the best defense in the Eastern Conference?

[B]

They could be and, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were because Stu had five blocks tonight, Cade had three. Kate also had five steals. So with Cade being about six six, his frame is, he has really broad shoulders. He can move his feet when he really decides he wants to be locked in defensively. So he guards the perimeter well. Ron kind of personifies the approach that the team like to has like to have as far as initiating their offense from defense. And he spoke to that post game as well. He's someone who, especially younger players his age, they enjoy playing offense, scoring to get themselves going. But Ron, it's like if he gets a couple steals, gets a offensive board, grabs a couple loose balls, that's kind of how he gets himself going and he enjoys getting downhill and being in the mix that way. So he spoke to that post game about his urge to be engaged defensively and how that pushes him offensively and stuff is another embodiment of that where he's getting five blocks in 25 minutes. So from Stu to Ron, who comes in as a spark plug off the bench, to Cade, who is, is a sneaky good defender. I guess if you're not really as aware of him, it's not sneaky.

[A]

But wait. The thing is, I feel the same. We know Cade can defend and I think it's what related to, it's like if he wants to lock in and I don't say that. And then like, you know, he is flipping about it. He's got an entire offense sometimes to have to shoulder.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But if he has the capacity to also show up on the defensive end, we're not only seeing the perimeter defense, we're seeing the help side rotations and blocks coming out of it. Like it's, it's kind of crazy.

[D]

This man missed 31 shots in a game. I mean just the fact that.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Like the fact that he can play defense at the level that he does. No, he is a great defender. And I think come playoff time, I'm, I'm, I'm excited to see what he does rising to the next level. Because you know Cade, like this is a, this is like the leap season and I think to complete that once you get to the playoffs, you, you know, they need to win at least the first round playoff series, if not honestly make it to the conference finals. They look like a conference finals team as we're a quarter of the way.

[A]

Through the season based off what David's saying. Conference finals teams, we know that these teams need depth. And I wanted to circle back to what you were talking about with Ron Holland because I think honestly tonight was probably his most complete game of the season. Like he had a great opening night game. I think we all remember 19 points looked good, et cetera. But if you watch Ron Howland at the beginning of the season, he really struggled with the fouls and we know that that was a carryover from last year he was very foul prone early in the season. He seems way more disciplined now and way more efficient with his time tonight. 17.6 boards and 6 of 8 shooting in just 17 a little 17 minutes. Like to. He talked a little bit post game about his adaptability, not having to be this person has to put up a ton of shots from his summer league performance to now. What have you seen in terms of like his growth with his efficiency and his maturity? Because his depth, I think is going to be pivotal for how far they go in like a conference finals conversation.

[B]

I think it, it probably was a little bit of a challenge for him early on where his shot wasn't falling the way he wanted to, but he's, he just has a supreme level of perseverance at his age also. And, and just an understanding to your point about the adaptability he spoke about because he said regardless of which team I was going to in the lottery specifically, there's going to be a, an abundance of scores. And for me, I want to play and I want to figure out what my niche is. And his niche here is defense. And it kind of just matches with his personality. He's a part of the dog pound which, which kind of. They say they're all the dog pound, but that kind of just includes Ron p. Reed, Stu, J.D. and he, he fits that mold where he doesn't. He enjoys kind of getting dirty and grimy and, and just buying into what makes this team what it is defensively. And I think he, to your point, Zena is going to be a, a really good depth piece and someone who can come off the bench. And because he's had to fit into different roles along his career already, I think the versatility he offers is, is one of the most special parts about his game.

[D]

We, we just did a redraft last week on the show of the 2021 draft. You know, Cade Cunningham, I don't know if you heard of that guy. Number one pick Jalen Johnson was in that draft and you just got a chance to see him last night firsthand. And he has really stepped up in Trey Young's absence and he's doing some stuff that we, I think we expected to see last season, but he was hurt. What was, what did you think of seeing him in person? I mean, he, he had an amazing game, put us up 29, 13 rebounds, seven assists. The guy is a Swiss army knife. Like he's almost a triple double A night when, when he's really got it going.

[B]

He's special. He, he's special and he has something similar to Cade where when, when the game is in the most tense moments and, and some people may shy away. That seems like when he's at his best. He has 16 of the 29 in the fourth and at 1.2 start the fourth quarter, he had outscored the Pistons by himself. He had 13 and the Pistons had eight. They started slow to start the fourth quarter. And he can do it from all three levels. He's, he's knocking down threes. He had four threes just in the fourth quarter alone. He's able to get to the mid range whether it's a floater or pull up jumper. And he dunked on a few people tonight. So he's been dunked on a lot.

[D]

Of people this year.

[B]

You look at that little dunk score.

[D]

On NBA.com and he's constantly one or two from the night. I mean this guy is, he is a monster.

[B]

Yeah, he's putting people in the rim. And I think he's, he's another player who's so young that he's just still figuring out what he's capable of. And it's fun to watch it in real time as he figures out that he's capable of pretty much everything on the floor.

[D]

Yeah, the Hawks are pretty fun. Look, another one of these teams with a guy who's out and we're like, hmm, do they look better without Trey Young? I mean, yes, they absolutely do. But that's a story for another day. Thanks to Hunter for hanging out, guys. Go and read them at the Athletic. For Hunter Patterson and Zena Kada, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

[A]

So good, so good, so good. Score. Holiday gifts. Everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom Rack store. Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone, Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger, London, and more.

[D]

Because there's always something new.

[A]

I'm giving all the gifts this year.

[C]

With that extra 5% off when I.

[A]

Use my Nordstrom credit card. Santa who join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. It's easy. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack.

[D]

Group health insurance can put businesses in a tough position.

[C]

Now, a new form of employer coverage.

[B]

Called an ichra can help.

[D]

Unlike group insurance, ichras offer predictable costs and personalized health plans.

[A]

Learn [e-mail] Ichra oh, hey.

[D]

Welcome to gift wrapping.

[C]

Whoa.

[D]

So is Saldana.

[A]

Hey, can you wrap these, please?

[B]

Wow.

[D]

IPhone 17s.

[A]

You splurged at T Mobile you can get four iPhone 17s teams on them. The new center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. It's the perfect gift for everyone.

[D]

I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.

[A]

Well it's better than socks.

[B]

So I have to trade in my old phone, right?

[A]

No AT T Mobile there's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.

[D]

Incredible.

[A]

In fact, wrap up my old phone too for my aunt Rosa.

[B]

Forget that.

[A]

Aunt Liz will be jealous.

[D]

Sounds like my family drama.

[A]

Oh I got it. I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take rain your paper with hey where are you going?

[C]

The holidays are better.

[D]

AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 monthly bill credits and we're eligible for inside essentials for well qualified customers. Dollar pay plus taxes, fees and $35 device connection charge credits and imbalance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel contact US Finance Agreement 256 gigabytes $830 required visit t mobile dot com.