NBA Host (3:49)

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for January 15, 2025. Coming up, we got Cavs, Pacers Part 2. The Cavs struck back, luckily starting another win streak. I'm guessing we got some weird vibes with the warriors and I need Xena's opinion on this whole thing. And then we got Eric Naim to stop in and talk to us about the Bucks after stopping the Kings win stre. Good morning everybody. Good morning, Xena. Xena, you know what? I I was watching a lot of basketball this weekend and usually I will use social media to help, you know, steer the direction of the show for the week. You know, what are the film guys watching? What were the best clips from the weekend? And I, I will be honest, I felt like this past weekend was just dominated by college football. And I learned via osmosis because I didn't watch a single second. But I learned that Ohio State and Notre Dame are in the national championship game.

NBA Analyst (4:51)

Did you know that? And that that means you missed Jack Sawyer, big old boy from osu, Scoop and score. I mean, it was an exciting game. Texas vs. OSU actually locked in on that one. Lot of fun. But OSU has had quite the journey to this championship game, so it'll be fun to watch them take on Notre Dame.

NBA Host (5:10)

Well, also a lot of fun. I don't know if you guys, if you're listening to us, you may not know, but over at the Athletic Podcast Network, we have until Saturday. That's our college football show. We've got David Uben, we've got Chris Vanini, we got Damien Harris, all in Atlanta bringing you predictions behind the scenes. They've got some interviews. I think Paul Finebaum, also from espn, is going to be making an appearance on the show. So they're going to be in Atlanta all week. They're going to have their Instant Reaction podcast and it's going to be on YouTube immediately following Monday's championship game. So go and subscribe to Until Saturday, wherever you listen to podcasts and go and subscribe to the YouTube on the copy they gave me, I'm going to just. Full disclosure says pod. Subscribe to the podcast or the YouTube? No, do both. Just like with us guys, go and subscribe to the YouTube. If you're only listening to the pod and if you're only watching on YouTube, you know, subscribe to the pod. Let's get to some hoops because hey, look, it's another night in the NBA, which means we had games that were important. Cavs and Pacers, they're back to back, basically home and home split and the Cavs got back on this one. They look more like the Cavs that we're used to seeing. A little bit of a revenge game, right? Like look like Donovan Mitchell especially looked like he was coming out looking to score.

NBA Analyst (6:25)

It's interesting. Donovan Mitchell told Stephanie Reddy, sideline reporter with TNT after the game that it was more about just playing their game and getting back to who they are as opposed to a revenge game. But let's be real, Donovan Mitchell came out 19 points in that first quarter, 27 for the half. A career high, not a season high, a career high. Most points scored in a first half. It was clear he wanted to get his get back against the Pacers and he did. They were in this game because of the work he was putting in.

NBA Host (6:58)

Yeah, him and Garland, they combined for 59 points, had 10 assists. And again, Mobley and Allen have another nice game. I mean, the Cavs, I think we've just been talking about them so much at this point. We didn't expect them necessarily to lose a game, but of course they were going to. But the bounce back, right? Two in a row. There was no way I would have been shocked if they had lost this one. A funny thing happened with Benedict Matheran in this game. He actually was assessed three technical fouls. One was a non wild, a non unsportsmanlike for doing a pull up on on a dunk. And then, you know, he got into it with the ref and he got two quick texts rightfully. And I don't even know Zena, he was arguing a call. That just doesn't make any sense to me. And it makes me think that these guys, look, there's a certain status I think you have to have before you can Go argue in and call. And maybe Rick Carlisle should just sit him down and be like, look, man, you're not good enough or important enough to be able to argue that call.

NBA Analyst (7:56)

O. That's tough. That's tough. It was such an obvious foul, but it was. It. That was. That's. That was the part that was so strange, is that it was so clearly, he hit the opponent's hand. Like, it was so clear. But what was particular about that third technical foul is that as he was arguing it, he bumps into ref Natalie Sago. And you can't do that, folks. You cannot touch the refs in any manner. But he did say that after the game, he went up to. To referee. Natalie apologized. He said, the next time they see each other will be friends. So that's just one.

NBA Host (8:30)

That was incidental contact, by the way. He was not. Like, there was no.

NBA Analyst (8:33)

I mean, it was.

NBA Host (8:34)

Definitely wasn't on purpose. The Mavs and Nuggets met up, and we got a little bit of a surprise yesterday afternoon. We got the news that Kyrie Irving was coming back after missing five games with the back issue. He looked a little rusty. He looked like a guy who kind of has a sore back and didn't look great. And even worse for the. For the Mavericks, before we get to the Nuggets, part of this, which was all upside, they lost Derek Lively to an ankle roll that looked pretty nasty. Came down really hard on. On Jokic's foot and just fully turned that ankle. So we're hopefully going to get some good news about that later on today. Hopefully he's not going to be out for long because this is a team that's already been dealing with, you know, no Luca, obviously, Kyrie just coming back. But the Nuggets took full advantage of the Mavericks being shorthanded. And Jamal Murray came out and scored 32 points in the first half. And he's only had one 30 point game all season. Put up 45 in the game. And I. I gotta start at this point. Like, we all keep wondering, when is Jamal Murray gonna show up? When is Jamal Murray gonna be in shape? Hey, maybe Jamal Murray is back. I mean, he looked like he was trying to make a statement in this game, and he did. To me.

NBA Analyst (9:45)

Yeah, he was playing lights out, locked in, kind of like Zen basketball. When the game just comes to you, you're taking what the defense gives you. You're making the right reads based off what the defense gives you. This is the. The play that his offseason extension is based off of. And we've seen spurts of it throughout this year. But what was particularly impressive was that he was doing this with that right knee soreness that he's been dealing with. We saw him have to come out of a game against Brooklyn two games ago where he only scored seven points. Only played 16 minutes because of that right knee. So he said it's a, it's a game of tolerance. He just has to play through this pain. And tonight, holy crap. Did he play right through it? He looked amazing.

NBA Host (10:31)

Yeah, he was gunning and whenever he's hunting that little mid range jumper from like the short corner, I, I think that. All right, this is, this is Jamal Murray. Funny, funny stat from this game. Number one, Nicola Jokic, of course puts up another triple double. Like this is just what he does. Okay. But they had a 15 point lead in the game, the Nuggets did, before Nikola Jokic even attempted a shot. That is absurd. You want to talk about just controlling a game with, without looking at the basket. I mean he really just, it's. And this is when you know that Jokic is feeling comfortable because he's not a score first guy. I actually think that, you know, what we've seen out of him where he's had to put up these 40 point games to try to get them, you know, keep them in games. I mean, I think about the Raptors games where you know, hey, if, if Jokic doesn't put up 40 and 15 and 20 assists, they're not beating them. And, and that's not what we're used to with the Nuggets. But now that they're getting healthier, jokic only has 10 points in this game. They're now only a half a game behind Memphis for the three seed Xena.

NBA Analyst (11:39)

Which is crazy considering how they started this game. But the thing about it is too, you do have to look at the competition that they like played against tonight with the Mavericks and you know, this is a game. They just played against the Mavericks as well recently. But the Mavericks were all over the place and losing Derek Lively, I mean basically within four minutes of the game definitely had them a little bit discombobulated. And it took the Mavericks a little bit of time to get back into rhythm because they started making a run towards that third quarter. But by that point the Denver Nuggets had control of this game. But you're absolutely right, it is. More players are starting to step up with more. With more depth being added to the Denver Nuggets. That's what's been the key. Once those starters come out for the Denver Nuggets, who's picking up the slack? Is there a significant drop off? And that's been the difference lately from this portion of the season versus the beginning portion. That drop off had been significant where the Denver Nuggets were 19 points better when Jokic was on the floor as opposed to off in those first 15 games versus more recently, you're seeing that depth of performance and just being able to produce not be as significant. And so 15 points even before Jokic puts up anything. Okay, Denver, you're moving on, you're moving forward. And I mean three games. How many games behind Memphis.

NBA Host (13:05)

They're half a game, half game back of the three scene. Yeah, they're going to be.

NBA Analyst (13:09)

Look, the west is crazy and I.

NBA Host (13:11)

Think right now, look, I'm ready to say that the Nuggets are. They're a much more serious basketball team than they started.

NBA Analyst (13:18)

Are you saying they're back?

NBA Host (13:19)

They're definitely here.

Bucks Analyst (13:21)

They're here.

NBA Host (13:22)

Maybe. Maybe they never let. I don't know. Maybe we were all too harsh. Are we being harsh enough on the Suns? They drop a game to the Hawks, which, look, the Hawks actually play everyone pretty tough. But no Jalen Johnson, no DeAndre Hunter for Atlanta and it didn't matter. Trey Young puts up 43 on. Now, let me ask you what's more impressive, 43 points or 31 shot attempts? Ooh, that's.

NBA Analyst (13:48)

I think the 31 shot attempts. I mean, six threes. Also got himself to the free throw line 14 for 14 shots made 11. But it's the ability to shoot outside, get inside, create contact and get yourself to the foul line like Trey Young does it all. And the thing about it is, is that I think people sleep on Trey Young because remember in the 2023, 2024 season, he had that hand injury that forced him to sit out for like 23 games. But he was doing this like he's got 1030 point, 30 plus point games this year, seven of those with 10 or more assists. It's crazy to think that he had ten thirty plus point games just in the month of December last season like this. This is what Trae Young does. He's actually behind schedule in this year. And so without his, you know, big wings like DeAndre Hunter and and Jalen Johnson, he's still able to cook and still able to facilitate for his teammates. I mean, yeah, Trey Young, I think he definitely needs a little bit more attention in that MVP conversation for sure.

NBA Host (14:56)

I mean, I. Atlanta's gonna have to win a lot more. I I think that for sure, Trey may be a guy who could sneak into. Maybe he sneaks into third team just because. Third team, all NBA, just because of how many guys are out. But I don't. I don't even know that at Tre, unfortunately. Like, there's a little bit of. I think he car. Like you said, there's a little bit of a stink on Trey Young where they need to win games. I think for him to lose that.

NBA Analyst (15:20)

Give those young guys a little bit more time. And I say, when I say mvp, not this year, obviously, but give those young guys a little bit more time to catch up with Trey Young, give them some wins, and then Trey Young absolutely can be in the center of that conversation.

NBA Host (15:34)

Well, he's finally got some guys that can run with him. Kevin Durant had 31 in this game, but did not score for the final seven minutes of the game. So that, I mean, that really was the game for Atlanta and they locked him down. Before we go to break and go talk to Eric Naim, I gotta ask you, Xena, because you're there in the Bay, you know, you do warriors tv, you're kind of plugged in, locked in. I gotta ask you about the vibes around the Warriors. Draymond Green, Steph Curry and Steve Kerr have all come out in the last few days and essentially said it's irresponsible to mortgage the future. We shouldn't mortgage the future. It doesn't make sense to mortgage the future. You've got Joe Lacob going on warriors plus minus with Marcus Thompson, one of our favorite people, and saying, we've got this algorithm that we run to find value. Okay, this sounds to me like a bunch of people starting to raise a white flag on the season. I mean, am I way off base here?

NBA Analyst (16:39)

I think a bunch of people within the warriors are probably starting to raise the white flag on the two timeline theory that didn't work. Ever since James Wiseman was drafted to the warriors at the number two pick, it's clear that trying to get these young guys the Jonathan Kaminga, Brandon Pajemski, Moses Moody, Trace Jackson Davis, trying to get them to play to the level of play you need around a Steph Curry in order to capitalize his stardom, his level of output, and also make a run for the title isn't working. Jonathan Kaminga has been out with a right ankle sprain, and it is clear that the warriors have struggled to fight another score alongside Steph Curry consistently. Andrew Wiggins is doing it, but not to the level that they need not putting pressure enough on the rim. The shooting has not been good. Buddy Heald is in a slump. Don't know when he's going to make it out. Steve Kerr believes he's going to make it out, but don't know. He's not shooting well. Dennis Schroeder not coming in and performing in the way that he was expected to perform in terms of being able to score at will and shoot. He's doing the defense, but not enough offensive output. Everyone's realizing, oh, snap, we don't have much time left with Steph Curry, and all the people around him that were supposed to fit in, mold into what is needed alongside him aren't doing it at the timeline that we expected. So I think that's what the white flag is being raised for. And I don't know about this season. You've seen what the Kings were able to do in the last few games, go on a run. I think the warriors definitely believe that they're capable of doing something like that, but they're stuck. And I think right now that February 6th deadline is looming over their heads. But they don't want to make any moves that make them feel like they're giving up their future, and they don't want to make any moves that make them feel as if they're. They're. They're losing out on the output of Steph Curry by not making moves.

NBA Host (18:45)

Right.

NBA Analyst (18:46)

So it's just. They're stuck right now. I think everyone feels stuck.

NBA Host (18:50)

Yeah. I mean, that is the definition of rock in a hard place. But I do think that when you have the best player who is ever going to. Whoever has, or who is ever going to play for your franchise, and this is the. This is it. This is the waning years of his career.

NBA Analyst (19:08)

Right?

NBA Host (19:09)

Your choice is pretty clear to me. You start talking about improving the team around him, or you start talking about where does he want to finish out his career? Does he want it to be in Golden State or does he want it to be elsewhere where he's trying to compete for a championship? Now, I think Steph Curry probably wants to stay there for the rest of his career, but if they're not going to be competitive, how long does he even want to play? That's the question for me. So I don't know. We're going to watch this and see what happens here over the next few weeks. Guys, stick around after the break. Eric Name is going to talk to us about the Bucks. They bounce back. Are they going to make some moves at the deadline? He's going to let us know. The Sacramento Kings had been the hottest team in basketball until they ran into the Bucks and got stopped. The Bucks have been up and down, so we needed to get Eric Naman here to give us a little update on what's going on with these guys. Giannis recorded his 50th career triple double in this win. The most points, points that they've scored all season after getting smacked by the Knicks. Who are the Bucks, Eric?

Bucks Analyst (20:27)

That's a great question. They are old. They are not, you know, like, they're not the youngest team anymore. And winning in the NBA is hard. Like, it just is. Like, some teams make it look very easy, and if you have lots of talent, it can be made even easier. But if you want to win every single night, you have to put in the work. You can't just roll the ball out. The league is far too talented. Teams are trying to win too much. They're too well coached. All of it. Like, the league's just too good. You can't just roll the ball out and win basketball games. If you could, the Bucks would do that on a nightly basis because they are overwhelmingly talented. But that is not the case. And it was funny just to kind of hear the Bucks after, you know, you have this great juxtaposition of two games. They go to New York on Sunday and get smacked. 140, 106. It's not close. It's the second time that they've gotten blown up by the Knicks. They're.08 against the top three teams in the Eastern Conference thus far this season. And then you see tonight where they play the Kings. They're in control, wire to wire. They blow them out. They have a 47 point first quarter in, you know, after the game, both Giannis and Dame are like, you know, the thing that we have to do is keep our competitive spirit high. That's what we have to do. We have to consistently compete night in, night out. That is what is going to lead to us winning games on a nightly basis. And while that is lovely to say, it's true in January, just like it was true in December, just like it was true in November and just like it was true in October. This, this ain't new. This isn't something they, they weren't aware of. Like, this is the reality for an older team as they're trying to win games, get through a regular season and most importantly, something that they haven't done for the last two years, stay healthy for the postseason. They haven't Done that. They've been trying to do that. They keep having injuries. Giannis keeps getting hurt not playing in the last two playoffs. Khris Middleton's dealt with injuries, Dame's dealt with injuries. They've just not been able to be healthy. They know what they can do if they can stay healthy, which is where all of the of this becomes very interesting. They know that to win games you have to compete every night. They also know it's really hard. They also know you could get hurt if you do those things. And it, to me, it's just fascinating to see this team go through this because for five years under Mike Boonholzer, they pushed really hard. They won all the time. It was an easy 50 wins every season. And they would blow teams out, guys would sit out the fourth quarter, Giants would play 30 minutes a night and they'd just be destroying teams. And that was the whole thing. They would just like be locked in. And this is how hard we're going to compete every night. Yeah, let's just turn 30. You know, it's, it's a little bit harder now. It's not quite as easy to get up every night and compete in that same way. Which to answer your question, where are they? What are they going to be? It feels like this is what it's going to be. There's going to be nights where they decide that they got it in their legs. There's going to be nights where maybe they don't. And hopefully by the end of the season they're somewhere around the third, fourth or fifth seed and they can then attempt to compete every night in the playoffs. Might be hard to do considering they didn't do it for the whole season. But when you have older legs, these are some of the concessions you sometimes have to make. So it is a really fascinating team to watch on a nightly basis because of really that, of that like it's not existential in the way that the warriors are trying to figure out who are we and what's going on? Can we actually do this? Like the Bucs know they can actually do it. They just know how hard it is to do on a nightly basis in an 82 game regular season.

NBA Analyst (24:13)

It's hilarious that you bring up the warriors because that's exactly what we were talking about with the warriors being stuck in a hard place. But the Bucs do have a better record, 21 17. So they are pulling out wins a little bit better than the warriors do. But on the topic of the warriors, on that parallel between the two, the two Timeline thing. You keep talking about the Bucs being old and we're starting to see, you know, some of the younger players, particularly like Orion Rollins, former Warrior, find his way into the rotation a little bit more and it's scattered. One game, it's three minutes, one game, it's 20. Like what are the Bucks doing to start to incorporate some of their younger legs into the rotation?

Bucks Analyst (24:54)

Yeah, you know this is not a, this is not a Doc Rivers thing to do. Doc loves his veterans, loves playing the older guys because they know what they're doing, they know how to, how to win games. But you know, they've started, they've started Andre Jackson Jr. For almost the entire season. And Andre doesn't always close games, but he starts every game. Doesn't always play 25 minutes, but he plays at least 15 to 20 each night. And that is, that's a step forward. A second year player getting 20 minutes a night. Great. AJ Green, same thing. Rather than starting, comes off the bench, he gets 20 minutes a night. You. Gary Trent Jr. Is a free agent. Gary Trent Jr. Is a veteran, but a young veteran. He's still only 25 years old. So you have those like those bit players, those role players are starting to get more and more incorporated. You mentioned Ryan Rollins. He's on a two way for the Bucks right now, but he's been a real bright spot for them as a two way player. Being able to take some of the backup point guard minutes, being able to play alongside Damian Lillard, use his length defensively. Like they are getting some of those things right. Like they're starting to fold in some of those players where this is what you have to do when you are a second apron team under the new collective bargaining agreement. Like you have to find ways to get cheap players to contribute in different ways and they are doing some of that. And I mean I didn't even mention a guy like Torian Prince played last year for the Lakers. He's still under 30. Another one of those young vets or old, young, whatever, however you want to say it. Like yeah, he's a young vet, whatever. However you want to say it. Like he, he can help with the legs, right? Like yeah, maybe Dame and Chris and Brooks still doing his thing. Like all those guys like can be a little bit older but the young guys are starting to get folded in and that has been like a real priority of the season. But I think at the same time those guys don't know how to win in the same way. So you have some of the mistakes that come along with these things, the inconsistencies, the ups and downs. So again, it just puts them in this fascinating place where I don't know if they will ever, like, make the decision as a team. Like, you know what? Screw it. We are going to compete every night. And let's say in the next 40 games, they rattle off 25 and 15. They could do that, or they could just be like, you know what, we're good. Like, let's just keep getting through this, let's stay healthy, let's get the four seed, and then let's make our run in the playoffs. Like, it's, it's a really, I think, a tougher decision than it may look like from the outside, because you do have to figure out how much you have in your stamina bar. Like, how low is it getting? Like, right. Do you need to have this much to get through the whole postseason? You know, that's, that could end up being, what, 40 games? Like an extra 40 games at the end of the year that you end up playing like, it's tough. It's.

Salesperson (27:55)

It's a lot.

Bucks Analyst (27:56)

It's tough to get to those 16 wins.

NBA Host (27:58)

So I think it's easy. It's easy to forget that every single team that wins the title has some luck on their side. And whether it's injury luck in the positive as, as they stayed healthy, or injury luck as in everyone else kind of fell apart around them. So, I mean, that's baked in. But the, the truth is this is it for this squad, right? Like, this is the run for this team at this is this season, and then they're going to have to revamp everything this summer for whatever the future looks like. So what does the immediate future look like for the Bucks? Like, are they going to be active in the next few weeks looking to improve this team, or are they going to stay pat and, and feel like, hey, as long as we can nurse our way through the season and we're healthy, this is a championship level team.

Bucks Analyst (28:47)

I think they believe they are a championship team. Now, that is, that is something that when you talk to Giannis Dame, Chris Brooke, Bobby, Doc Rivers, all of them say we can compete with anyone. Like, we have no doubts about that. Even when they lost their eighth game against the top three teams in the east on Sunday, and I brought that stat up to Doc Rivers, said, hey, you're 08 against the top three teams. He, he just kind of laughed and said, you know, that's something you guys like, write about or that's something Tim Bontimes is going on TV and he's going to talk about, oh, you know, the Evan one against whatever and he's like, but coaches athletic guy. Yeah, no, hey, I mean he, he knew I was writing, so I guess bond temps on tv. Like I'll have to work on my TV presence. It's a good point, Dave, but just like the, the idea that like that matters more outside of their locker room than inside the locker room. So I think there's a high level of confidence inside the locker room, but that doesn't mean they think they're a complete product, that there isn't more that they could do that they can try to find some more. And I think to your point, Dave, where it gets interesting is you look at that cap table. The Bucks have been in the luxury tax for years. They've been in the second apron for years. They're going to pay among the most of any teams to have the team that they have this year. From a luxury tax perspective, there is a ripcord to pull. Chris Middleton has a player option for about $32 million next year. Brook Lopez is in the final year of a two year, $48 million deal. Bobby Portis has a player option for next year that one would guess at his age and what he's been doing that he's going to opt out of and look for a new contract. If you want to very quickly drop down and get out of the second, get out of the second apron, onto the first apron, get out of the tax, maybe even have some cap room this summer. There are, there is at least the possibility of a lot of expiring contracts there. So you could wait until the end of the season and do all that. Or maybe you look through it and you say that's $52 million in expiring contracts and you go and make a big play like, you know, there's a guy out there that it could end up being a mercenary. No one really knows. Maybe only Bernie Lee knows what Jimmy Butler is really thinking and how he's act actually thinking about playing. But like, those are. It's not. I don't think the Bucs feel like they're desperate in, in maybe the way that some of the other teams are right now, like, oh my God, we have to make a move. But I do think if you believe the next step for this team is going all the way back under the tax and, you know, trying to find some gap room, how do you want to use your $50 million in expiring contracts like that? Is that is, to me, a real question that they have to ask. So, again, that doesn't mean that, you know, they should be considered favorites or anything like that for anyone or to make huge moves or anything like that. But like, those are, as you mentioned, like, those are the future thinking questions you have to be thinking about of where do we want to go after this? And also where does where we want to go after this affect what we do in the next three months? And that's why I do think maybe this trade deadline could be a little bit more interesting than people might think for the Bucks. Or it could be even more boring than anyone could ever imagine. And all they do is trade a minimum guy for a minimum guy, like they did last year when they traded, you know, backup point guards and brought Patrick Beverly. It was incredibly boring. It wasn't exciting. They made a move, they moved the deck chairs around a little bit and that was that. So the possibilities seem almost endless right now, which I think is very exciting as we approach the trade deadline about three weeks from now.

NBA Host (32:37)

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm on the. I'm on team. Make a trade. I think they gotta make a move. They're just not good enough. And like you said, they're old. That's gonna do it for today's show, folks. Thank you, Eric, for always coming in whenever we need a Bucks update and for hanging out with us for Xena Keda. I'm Dave before and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

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