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- [00:00]
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- [01:59]
S. Baraheny
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for July 29, 2025. I'm back with my guy, S. Baraheny and we're talking money in the NBA. And that's why we had to bring in Mike Vorkanoff to break it all down. Before we get into that, listeners, we need to hear from you. Blow us up. Okay, we got a link in the description to give us your feedback on the show. We have had so much fun putting this together for you. Getting together, talking about hoops, giving you guys a shoot arounds all the above. And we want to know what'd you like, what you didn't like, what you didn't like, what you want to change for next year, what you want to add for next year. So definitely check out that link, give us all the feedback and we appreciate your support, hearts. Okay, let's get into it. Mike S. We gotta talk a little bit about the NBA because of course it's quiet season, it's the off season and that means business is happening. Okay. Things are going. That means Luka Doncic is having photo shoots. But that's not the point. That's not why we're here. First and foremost, Mike, we're going to jump into NBA expansion. Okay? This has been a topic that's been floating around for a very long time, but it seems like the NBA is hesitant to move forward with expansion talks. And with all the money floating around. Why in the world would owners be hesitant? What factors are delaying them from jumping in head first?
- [03:31]
Mike Vorkanoff
Well, it's all the money and they just don't want to share it anymore, right? Yeah, I think things have slowed down, I think for a while or the last few years rather. Everyone's kind of been working under the assumption that the NBA was going to expand maybe to 32 teams. It's at 30 right now. Seattle and Vegas are right there waiting for a team, maybe Mexico City if you want to go international. But you know, the vibe that I've gotten lately that David Aldridge, who I wrote a story with earlier this month, has gotten is that NBA owners might not be in such a hurry to just expand right away to add two more teams to take a piece of that pie that they have to be sharing.
- [04:11]
G
Right.
- [04:11]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like next year they start an 11 year, 76 billion dollar media rights deal that they would, you know, really help their economics. I think it would 3x or just about 3x over the course of a the deal. The average, average annual amount they're getting in media rights fees.
- [04:27]
G
Right.
- [04:27]
Mike Vorkanoff
That's a lot of money. So it's like, what's the hurry to start sharing all that?
- [04:31]
G
Right.
- [04:32]
Mike Vorkanoff
Expansion will always be there. There's always going to be interest in Seattle about bringing a team there. There's a ready made ownership group there that seems like it's interested. You know, Las Vegas obviously has its own interest there and that's a big city that needs a team. The NBA now somehow, you know, is the last, you know, major professional sports league in North America that doesn't have a team in the NBA. Yeah. After being in there in some sort of way for so long with summer league and then the Aces and all that. So I. I think it's. It's interesting, and I'm. You know, they're obviously trying to expand into Europe as well, with its own basketball league that's not the NBA. So it's got a lot of stuff going in a lot of different places. And I think right now, owners are just, like, they're okay with waiting a little bit and seeing how this goes. But earlier this month, Adam Silver did say that they're starting an official exploration of this whole endeavor, which is not nothing, but we'll see what comes out of that. And, you know, time's ticking. You got to take about two years to put up a. An NBA team from when you name one. So we'll see what the timeline is ultimately.
- [05:33]
Zena
Yeah, the timeline is really interesting because I think a lot of people expected that we would hear some sort of news about now, because, you know, Adam Silver did mention that after they sorted out the media deal, then they would kind of address expansion. I always think, like, you know, you brought a Vegas. It's kind of cool that Vegas is more of, like, a convention for the NBA than anything. You know, NBA cup and summer league. Like, they've made it their kind of, like, side kind of venture if they want to in the States. I don't. I like that aspect of things. But I guess to that point, I want to ask you also if they are hesitant on expansion, if owners are hesitant on expansion, does that open the possibility of maybe relocation for one of these NBA teams? And, you know, the perspective of, like, another owner, another buyer or investor wanting to be interested in a team and trying to move them to a Seattle or a Las Vegas.
- [06:26]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah. I mean, that's interesting. One.
- [06:28]
G
I.
- [06:28]
Mike Vorkanoff
You know, I feel like the last time the NBA moved the team, it was such a scarring process for them. Right. We still talk about Seattle. We still talk about Seattle as this. As this city that lost something so institutional to them.
- [06:41]
G
Right.
- [06:42]
Mike Vorkanoff
New Orleans. I think the love for the Pelicans, they're not quite the same. You can tell in so many ways. Not least of all just the vibe during games. You know, they have a lease in their arena that's coming up at the end of the decade that they're gonna have to figure out. You know, I think the most prominent question is, will the city build them a new arena? Right. Yeah. I'm usually doubtful of these things. I think we've seen more and more, know, governments are less and less interested in spending lots of money to build arenas for professional sports teams. So if it doesn't, then, you know, we always see how this goes. We see the Chiefs do it in Kansas City. Now, we've seen other places. Once they don't get their arena, they start talking about moving potentially, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious what happens with that. Gail Benson, who owns the Pelicans, also owns the Saints.
- [07:30]
G
Right.
- [07:31]
Mike Vorkanoff
So would she really move one team out of New Orleans but keep the other one there, or does that mean that she would sell?
- [07:38]
G
Right.
- [07:39]
Mike Vorkanoff
These are all kind of like the different dynamics at work. I think it'll be curious to see what the Portland Trailblazers get.
- [07:46]
G
Right.
- [07:46]
Mike Vorkanoff
They're on market right now. They're a smaller market team. You know, I don't think they will be getting $6 billion.
- [07:53]
Zena
Yeah, they're not getting Lakers money. They're not getting Lakers. Yeah, exactly.
- [07:57]
Mike Vorkanoff
But, like, what is a team like that worth on the open market? And that can be maybe a good indicator of what a team like the Pelicans might be worth. Maybe, you know, we see what that market looks like, and that could be an indicator of the different ways that Gail Benson can go with the Pelicans in the future. So I think it's too early to say about moving a team. But look, that would be one way of getting a team back in Seattle without putting a new team in Seattle. Right. So I think these are all kind of things that the league has to consider.
- [08:29]
S. Baraheny
One thing that was really interesting in the article that you mentioned and part of the hesitancy, it's actually very similar to what's happening on the WNBA side that people are concerned about is the talent dilution and the concept of whether the league's talent pool is deep enough so that new teams can remain competitive as they expand. And it kind of opens up a perfect conversation into the whole conversation around Europe. Right. Because you look at this last draft. Viva la France. Actually, really the last two. And you know that Europe is thriving with all of this talent. Look at the last 10 MVPs in the league and the proportion represented by countries, not the U.S. and so thinking about NBA Europe, this is another thing that has kind of been on the horizon for the NBA. It's been something that they've talked about, and Adam Silver said it's not. It's going to be years, not months, before a permanent European division is open. What are some of the issues that are kind of holding that up in terms of establishing it? But what are really the benefits, too? Once it is open.
- [09:40]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah. The NBA Europe thing's a little bit complicated. You know, for one, I think the last thing he said is the NBA has kind of like a two to three year timeline for starting that league together. The problem with starting a basketball league in Europe is that there's already a pretty good basketball league in Europe.
- [09:56]
S. Baraheny
Right?
- [09:57]
Mike Vorkanoff
You know, like the Euro League's there. It has a lot of good players. It has what the NBA doesn't, which is a lot of history.
- [10:03]
G
Right.
- [10:04]
Mike Vorkanoff
And it has a lot of brand name teams in Europe. The NBA, if it starts its own thing there, intends to bring like, I think, you know, 10 or so new expansion franchises, so to speak, and they'll then have other kind of wild cards the way, the same way that Euroleague works now. But there's still, you know, that creates a big mess. You feel like you have, you have a lot of good teams there already who have the players, where do the players go? Are there enough players to feed both leagues? You know, they've had. The Euro League and the NBA have had kind of like a frosty relationship over the last year and a half year or so. The Euro League and FIBA have had a frosty relationship. They all broke bread in May in Geneva for, you know, the first time in a long time getting together in one room to kind of talk about it. And it seems like there's been a thaw there between all the sides. Does that lead to them eventually working together? Maybe, I don't know, but that's something to consider. And as we talk about expansion, you know, like one of the ways to look at expansion is who gets how much money and when, right? Like, sure, okay, we can talk about teams, but it's also who gets how much money and what. Yep. Well, if the NBA starts in NBA Europe, right, Like, you're not pulling from the NBA player ranks, you are potentially getting expansion fees, right? Like, if you have eight to 10 new teams, somebody's going to pay for them to pop up in those big European cities, which means the NBA and its ownership base is getting money. It's getting money into its pockets, coming out of somewhere that doesn't dilute the money that it's getting in NBA revenue, right? Like, so these are all things to consider. And it seems like the NBA is putting a lot of time and attention on that, and it seems to be prioritizing that over NBA expansion. And so I would think at this point they'll try to get that done. There's a team already on the market in the trailblazers you don't want three teams on the market all at once with two expansion teams in the trailblazers. So I'm sure they'll see that through. And I don't think that team will have a buyer come into place until midway through the 25, 26 season. So that should kind of give you an idea of how that works. I'm curious to see how the NBA Europe project would work. You know, I think there's skepticism there from people who own teams in Europe about the economics of basketball in Europe. Like the Euro League has struggled to make a lot of money. The money there is not the same that it is in basketball in America. Yeah. And so there's some question marks of what the NBA would do if it comes in there and if they can really make money and if there's enough interest and enough money overall to just make the whole thing work. But the NBA is, if there's one thing the NBA is really good at, it's making money. So that's what a lot of people are banking on.
- [12:32]
S. Baraheny
It's important to get that context too of, you know, a lot of folks think that FIBA owns Euroleague. Originally. They did. Originally. That was almost 70 years ago. FIBA had started Euroleague. But as about 25 years ago, Euroleague is its own product. And so the NBA and FIBA have worked together. They helped create the basketball Africa league together, for example. They have those relationships. But Euroleague is its own thing and it's also a burgeoning league that wants to continue to grow their roots that they had since they started under fiba, but they've continued as their own. And the NBA coming in would probably make it just a little bit messy ass.
- [13:14]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah, it would.
- [13:15]
Zena
I mean, like, I'm, I'm thinking of the, like you mentioned, Mike, the legacy franchises like Real Madrid, Barcelona. There's like Bayern Munich and like, obviously they are massive in the soccer world, but they also have their own basketball entities. And it's harder to split the pie, so to speak, with those types of organizations that raking so much money already from the soccer side that this is more secondary to them when it comes to running on the feeba side of things. What, what's the census like around the league when you talk to people about this NBA Euro concept? Are people in favor of it? Are they excited? Like, what's, what's, what are people talking about when you bring up this NBA Euro thing?
- [13:56]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah, I think there's intrigue because no one quite knows what it looks like. I don't think the NBA folks completely know what it Looks like.
- [14:01]
G
Right.
- [14:01]
Mike Vorkanoff
I don't think that people, like people is speaking to executives and owners in, in European basketball teams. I don't think they all know what it looks like. They're kind of like waiting with bated breath to see what the NBA will do. I think maybe some of the people are interested are like agents because they might get now a bidding war for their players. Right. Which will obviously benefit them. But I think it's too early in this whole process to have an idea of what it could all look like and then to have an opinion, which is, you know, part of the intrigue of the whole thing.
- [14:31]
Zena
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. I mean, like the other, the other aspect to this is the draft eligibility, which you wrote about, which is sort of a double edged sword here now that the NCAA is raking in so much money with the nil stuff. I mean, we're seeing how it's impacting the draft because guys in the second round who are projected to go in the second round end up saying, well, you know, I actually might want to stick around in college for more money. There's also a European aspect to this because more Euroleague guys are deciding, hey, I'm going to go play in college. And now there's this different eligibility structure. Got to say that word a couple times.
- [15:08]
Mike Vorkanoff
It's.
- [15:08]
Zena
There's a different eligibility structure that can now take place. Explain what that means for the future of the NBA drafts because it all ends up being a little convoluted.
- [15:17]
Mike Vorkanoff
Oh, man, this is, this is all convoluted. I'm going to mess up. I know I'm going to get somebody sending me an email saying, I messed up. Yeah. One of the interesting things is, so obviously there's a lot of money in college basketball now. Players are getting paid.
- [15:29]
G
Right.
- [15:31]
Mike Vorkanoff
And we've seen in recent years European players coming over to college basketball because they can make more there than they can from their pro teams in Europe. And one of the interesting issues that it's created is that for the NBA draft, you become auto eligible for the draft at 22. If you're playing outside of, outside of North America.
- [15:51]
G
Right.
- [15:51]
Mike Vorkanoff
Outside of America. And so you see you have some players who are 22 who commit to play college basketball and they're also in the NBA draft at the same time. So what happens if they get drafted like that? That was something the NBA had to figure out. This past, this past draft cycle. There were a few players who are already 22. So they're in the draft and they're also intending to play college basketball next season. So they're like the NBA put out a memo saying, hey, for our purposes, if you go to college and you get drafted for your second round pick, it's almost like you're a drafting stash. You're playing for Real Madrid or something like that, even while you're playing college basketball.
- [16:29]
Zena
Interesting.
- [16:29]
Mike Vorkanoff
So these are kind of some of those, like these interesting wrinkles that are created now in the CBA that were previously unaccounted for with nil and college sports changing to a pay for play method. And obviously, I think this is something the NBA is going to figure out later on too. You know, if you start an NBA Europe, does that mean you're kind of within the NBA ecosystem now?
- [16:49]
G
Right.
- [16:49]
Mike Vorkanoff
Even though you're playing for a team in Europe the same way you'd be in the G League. Can we see a better relationship between the NCAA schools and NBA? Somehow I don't have any answers, but it's kind of intriguing to all think through and see how this can change the entire basketball ecosystem in the future. By the end, you know, by the end of the decade, maybe.
- [17:06]
S. Baraheny
Oh, yeah. And it's going to require some deep negotiations between the NBA, the ncaa, the union. I mean, we've just seen the Dartmouth men's college team kind of get represented, or, excuse me, get the legal representation as being employees of Dartmouth. Right. And that changes a whole. That's a whole new wrinkle to this of how these college players are now going to advocate for themselves to have the same rights as a European player and to have the same rights as an employee, a drafted employee of the NBA to ensure that they can capitalize on all the nil dollars. I am. This is probably the most interesting thing to me when you, especially when you consider that one in six players in the NBA are European. And all of these American players that are currently in the NCAA system are probably watching these folks get drafted and get the opportunity to stay home, develop another year, take advantage of any type of, you know, dollar opportunities in terms of sponsorships. And they're probably like, can I get that? Especially because I have a deal with Wendy's, my local Wendy's. They're paying me a lot of money to play basketball in my local town. Can I get that for one more year? Come in, but also keep my spot. So I'm very, very curious as to how all that is going to play out. Okay, before we get going, we're going to get into the cba. On the other side of this break.
- [18:28]
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- [22:45]
S. Baraheny
Alrighty. So let's talk a little bit about the cba. Because I mean we've just talked a little bit about what the league is doing. All of that is going to obviously impact its players and we've got a new president of the MVPA and Fred Van Vliet. But the previous president, CJ McCollum, recently shared a lot of thoughts around the current CBA and I wanted to kind of dig into some of these because I thought they were interesting topics. We all thought they were at the NBA Daily. So the first one, he admits that that the CBA is not perfect. And this is often an appearance on the Young man and the three podcast. He says, quote, the CBA is not perfect. Everything is negotiation. The pot is going to continue to grow, guys are making more money, but you shouldn't be punished for drafting. Well, the that's in regards to Oklahoma City. He specifically cites that Oklahoma City is a team that is probably going to need to trade some great young players that it just drafted to avoid those luxury tax penalties. And I feel like this is real. Mike, I agree with this. Like if you do your job in drafting talent and developing talent because that's the big thing too. It's not just the drafting, it's the development. We talk about how good OKC is That in doing that, I really don't feel like you should be punished for that. Is that something that can be changed in the cba?
- [24:12]
Mike Vorkanoff
Not in this one, no. But it's funny. But here's. You make a great point, actually. Adam Silver, as this one, as this CBA was being negotiated, was like, look, I don't want to get rid of super teams. I just want them to be.
- [24:25]
Butcherbox
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- [24:26]
G
I.
- [24:26]
Mike Vorkanoff
Or he said, fans want to see them being built the right way.
- [24:29]
G
Right.
- [24:29]
Mike Vorkanoff
You want to, you know, organically, all that stuff. What are the Thunder, if not the best example of this? They took a million picks. Yeah. Hit on a few of them. All these guys are homegrown or scrap heap guys or second round picks. Turn that into a title contender, title winner, rather. And then in a few years, like, all right, maybe. Maybe they want to pay into the second apron.
- [24:53]
G
Right?
- [24:53]
Mike Vorkanoff
Then they have this decision whether they got to pay these owners repeater taxes, whether they want to have their frozen first round pick. Like all this annoying stuff that comes in the first apron. Or as we've seen now, like, pretty much almost every team has decided once they're in the second apron, they don't like being there anymore. They want to get out. Celtics. Yeah. Like, yeah. Every team is like, except for the Timberwolves, has been like, we don't like it here. Like, it's too hot, it's too cold. The warriors, yeah. They're like, look, before the second apron even came in, they're like, we don't.
- [25:25]
S. Baraheny
Want too much for a second when the titles were coming in. And now they're like, oh, this is a little expensive, a little pricey.
- [25:34]
G
Right?
- [25:34]
Mike Vorkanoff
And they're like, I don't like the looks of this anymore. Like, let's let Clay leave.
- [25:37]
G
Right.
- [25:37]
Mike Vorkanoff
And ruin some equity that we've had with our fan base and one of our star players. So this is something that Thunder are gonna have to reckon with in a few years. They just signed extensions with Jalen Williams, who's guaranteed to get at least 25% of the cap. Chad Holmgren, who's gonna get 25% of the cap. Shea Gilgis, Alexander, who's gonna get 35% of the cap. You do the math there. That's almost all of the cap.
- [25:58]
G
Right.
- [25:58]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like, that means everyone else you're paying, you're getting into the tax real quick. So it doesn't actually fulfill Adam Silver's, like, very publicly pronounced intent for the cba. And I think that's a real thing that the league has to figure out.
- [26:11]
G
Right.
- [26:11]
Mike Vorkanoff
Every CBA is basically fixing the problems of the one it had before. And I think this is a problem it has to solve for. Like you shouldn't be able to build a title contender organically. Or I would argue even the Celtics kind of built it semi organically. Like they traded. They absolutely did. They traded for Christoph Sporzingis and they developed, they drafted well, like all those things that shouldn't be a problem where you're like, hey, we did it, right? And now you're telling us like, you know, I mean, honestly, like you still got to blow this up.
- [26:37]
Zena
The reason the Celtics traded everybody this summer was because they extended Jalen Brown and they extended Jason Tatum. And like both those guys are guys who they drafted, right? And they.
- [26:48]
Mike Vorkanoff
That's what you're supposed to do.
- [26:49]
Zena
That you're. That is the goal of the NBA is to draft. To your point, Xena, it's to draft the guys that you believe in, develop them, they become NBA champions. And somehow, some way, you still have to deal with the financial responsibilities of it. I will say OKC with the contract extensions that they did for Jalen Williams and Chet, they were really, really unique in the sense that there is no real escalator in Chet Holmgren's contract. Jaylen William, Jalen Williams, who's already an all NBA guy, has escalators, but it's not the conventional ones that you think of when it's not like, you know, the Rose rule type of stuff that you see with regular rookie extensions. So they were unique in the sense that like in this CBA landscape you have to kind of work around the margins a little bit more. You think of some of the mid level guys, you know, Dorian Finney Smith had the two final years of his contract be non guaranteed. We're seeing more and more non guaranteed money being given out. That's part of this new cba because teams don't want to limit themselves financially in the future. I think from an ownership perspective, it's forced front offices to be a little bit more smart, be a little bit more stringent in the way that they spend money. But from the players perspective, and I imagine Fred Van Vliet is thinking about this right now too. It's not like you're getting the most guaranteed money possible because maybe 2016, 2017, 2018 years, that Dorian Finney Smith contract is probably fully guaranteed. You know, there's probably other guys out there who are getting more guaranteed money long term compared to now where we're. It's not the case is am I off in that. How did. Mike, how do you feel about that? Xena? How do you feel about that?
- [28:31]
S. Baraheny
To your point though, I think this actually leans right into Another thing that CJ McCollum alluded to was saying that basically that the mid level guys are actually just fine. He pushed back against the idea that players, especially in the middle class, are worse off. The middle class is making more money than they ever have before and. But I think you just made a really good point. Sure, there's an aspect that there's more money to be had, but how much more money is guaranteed?
- [28:58]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah, right.
- [28:59]
S. Baraheny
Well, it's like, it's like.
- [29:00]
Zena
That's like saying minimum wage is higher right now.
- [29:02]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah, sure.
- [29:02]
S. Baraheny
But the cost, it's looking really NFL ish, right? When you think about the NFL, it's like, oh, there's so much money being thrown around the NFL, but it's not guaranteed. Not all that money is guaranteed. How much, Mike, do you think that Fred Van Vliet coming in, who I think you know, follows that same kind of tier of a player, like a CJ McCollum, a Fred Van Vliet that has come in and has made impact on different teams, isn't a high level star, but understands how to play with the stars, understands the business and et cetera, of like, he's been in this league for a very long time. How much do you think that Van Vliet's leadership is gonna impact this league and the conversations that the players now have from an MBPA perspective with the league in this, in terms of the money aspect, for sure, yeah.
- [29:51]
Mike Vorkanoff
I mean, this can change a little bit. For sure, right. Every time there's new leadership group, new leader, it changes a little bit. You know, he's a reflection of the executive committee too, which has a lot of say in how the MVPA does its business. Andre Iguodala has been in the job for a while now as the executive director, right. So he's a, he's a change from Tamika Trimaglio, who was there for the last CBA negotiations. So I'm sure there will be some change and I'm sure there would be some things that he comes in with a fresh eyes and fresh voice that he wants to see if he can talk to the NBA about and see if they can work on making tweaks in the cba, right. To change them. But I think so, like this, this discussion is interesting to me because when we're talking about who gets how much money, right, like the middle class, there's one thing that we know for sure with the CBA, which is like the NBA players, no matter what, are going to get 49 to 51% of all the money, right? Like this year they got, I think 400 and give, give or take $450 million more than 51%. So they have to give that money back to the player, to the, to the owners in the league, right? So like they're getting the money. So that part didn't change from CBA to cba. That part stayed the same. So it really becomes a question of like who gets the money, right? And it's interesting because I think for a long time it was the max players who got kind of cut off.
- [31:13]
G
A little bit, right?
- [31:14]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like the max salary means you only got 35% of the cap. A lot of those players could have made a lot more if there was just an open market in the NBA and they're still at cutoff at 35%. And I think we're seeing now is the middle class, they're getting more money like in actual dollars, right? The cap keeps going up. They're going to be, you know, the mid level Exception is at 14 and a half million dollars. In a few years it'll be at 16 and 18 and all that stuff. But I think teams are negotiating harder, so they might get a smaller amount of the cap individually than they would have in past seasons. So it's really, it's like, it's, it's who's getting the money during the course of each cba. And maybe now we do go to a system, like you said, Zena, where it is more like the NFL where the guys at the very top, they're going to get theirs. Teams aren't going to negotiate with the 35 percenters, they're not going to negotiate with the 30 percenters, but they're going to try to squeeze someone for making 15% of the cap to make him 13% of the cap. But they're getting a lot of money.
- [32:12]
Zena
Though, nonetheless, millions of dollars. That is true.
- [32:15]
S. Baraheny
And I think a person that, you know, to add on to CJ McCollum's thoughts, a person that really laid this out well in terms of who's getting the money is Steph Curry. He was recently on an interview for Complex Sports with Speedy Mormon and he talked about how the cba, the way that they're structured right now, as the teams continue to grow in value and more money's being made, jerseys are being sold, all the things that are related into basketball, related Income, which contributes to that 49 to 51% that the players get. Team evaluations are blowing up, and the players aren't getting a portion of that. You just mentioned, if they make money over that 51%, they got to give it back. That's crazy. And so, you know, Curry was saying that they can't participate in the equity of teams. Do you think that would ever happen?
- [33:15]
Mike Vorkanoff
No, I don't think the owners will want to give it up. They tried in the last cba, so. In the last cba. Oh, gosh, they, like, negotiated this thing where the players would somehow be able to, like, buy a tiny, small stake of an NBA team, but I don't think it ever got finalized. Like, there is some intent, and it was written into the cba. They never actually finalized the process of how it would work. And there are some labor law issues that they had to get around, which is all my long winded way of saying no. I think that's, you know, that's really the part that the NBA owners don't want to give up. And from their stake, from their perspective, I understand why. Because that's where a lot of the money is in owning an NBA team.
- [33:59]
G
Right.
- [33:59]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like, you're. You. You might get some profits. You probably will get some profits over the course of a season from year to year. But like, you know, the Celtics, you bought in for $360 million. Twenty years later, you're selling them for $6.7 billion. That's where the profit comes from for the majority of that time, along with all the fun you had and all the rings you won and all the cool seats you had for fun games. Like, financially, that's where their big profit motive is. And I think they're going to be very, very. I don't know what would make them give up equity in. In their teams as part of a. Of the next cba.
- [34:33]
Zena
Yeah, it's funny because I was just looking this up. So when Joe Laka bought the warriors in 2010, the valuation was $450 million. That's how much you bought them for. Right now, they are 8.2 billion dol.
- [34:47]
Mike Vorkanoff
That is why.
- [34:48]
S. Baraheny
That's why Curry's saying that.
- [34:50]
Zena
Saying that Steph wants a piece. Yeah, he's absolutely. And he is one of the.
- [34:55]
S. Baraheny
He doesn't deserve it.
- [34:56]
Zena
Exactly.
- [34:57]
Mike Vorkanoff
Right. I mean, who's contributed more to the warriors being worth $8.2 billion? Thank you.
- [35:01]
Zena
Yeah, exactly 100%. And I mean, you. You think of. There's multiple examples across the board. I mean, the Economy of Giannis Antonokounmpo in Milwaukee is another aspect to this because like you go outside Milwaukee's arena, there are restaurants and bars and an entire like economy outside that arena based solely on Giannis's presence. So like that's part of the reason. Do you, do you expect. Because there is an opt out clause for the CBA in 2028, 2029, if I remember correctly. Do you expect that opt out to happen? And if so, what do you think is like the first thing that comes on the table with what players or owners might want to change? This is all looking forward too much. But I guess if you have.
- [35:43]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah, it's. I mean, I think the reason opt outs happen is if either side feels like, all right, something in the CBA is not working for us.
- [35:50]
G
Right.
- [35:50]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah. Like on the NBA side, you obviously local TV for them is a problem right now. You keep the number that they keep getting league wide. It keeps going down because the cable, you know, the, the whole cable situation, all of it, not great.
- [36:05]
G
Right.
- [36:06]
Mike Vorkanoff
We just saw Diamond Sports get out of bankruptcy and 13 NBA teams are left on Diamond Sports. And if they discuss going to local league pass to try to figure it out. And those last CBA was, they said they want to get out of early so they could redo kind of their whole media situation. And I, I assume that' still be something for them going forward, for the players. I, I mean, I don't know if they necessarily will because if they're getting 51% no matter what, like their money is locked in.
- [36:34]
G
Right.
- [36:35]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like that's the most important part. Like I thought this past CBA was very interesting because it wasn't like most CBA discussions like with the NFL, with Major League Baseball, where they're just fighting for every like 0.1% of potential revenue to split. Yep. Whereas here it was the NBA owners going, yeah, but we want to cut ourselves off.
- [36:54]
G
Right.
- [36:55]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like we want to get a second. First they want a hard cap, but then they're like, then they want a second apron and you know, basically a.
- [37:01]
Zena
Hard cap at this.
- [37:02]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah. Right. And you might have problems with that and you think it's changed the function of the league and all those things are probably true. But in the end, like the player's money didn't get messed with.
- [37:11]
G
Right?
- [37:11]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah. And that was weird, I thought. And so if I was the players union, I would be most interested in just making sure that they still get what they think they deserve and don't come down from this, you know, 50, 51% ban that they're at right now.
- [37:27]
S. Baraheny
If I'm the players, you have to be savvy. You've got to stay up to date. I think if there's any time for any of the athlete unions to be, you know, tapped in and to ensure that their players are very much in tune with what's being discussed, what's on the table, what's up for stakes, this is the time to do that. You cannot. I'm thinking about the WNBA and their 2020 CBA or the CBA before that and how much it was like pulling teeth to get people to lock in. They are locked in for this new CBA coming up. And I think right now the NBA is doing the same thing and making sure that their younger players are well aware of what's involved in this. It's not new. Yes. Basketball related income. That revenue share is going to happen. No, you need to know there's so many other factors. The Euroleague, expansion, expansion teams, all these different things all will impact you. So on that note, Mike, as we close this conversation out, let's say you're an up and coming player in the NBA. You're about to get drafted and a veteran comes to you and says, hey, young buck, there's a lot that's about to happen in this league. What would you predict that this man is telling you about what's about to happen in the NBA and what you should be most concerned about?
- [38:44]
Mike Vorkanoff
They're going to replace me with AI. I'm going to get chatgpt.
- [38:49]
S. Baraheny
I like that. I like it, I like it.
- [38:53]
Mike Vorkanoff
I don't know. I mean there's so many ways that it can go. There's so many things that change at any minute, any given time. That's not all NBA related.
- [38:59]
G
Right.
- [38:59]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like we've seen the sneaker industry change.
- [39:01]
G
Right.
- [39:02]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like the amount of people, players that get shoe deals has gone down.
- [39:05]
G
Right.
- [39:05]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like even not, not just, even your own signature shoe line, but just like shoe deals, period. Yeah. We've seen trading card deals come into place. We've seen obviously like the havoc that social media has caused in everyone's life that's been both good and bad in some ways. So it's hard to say, but I feel like, I feel like the hardest part would be just figuring out a way what to do with all the money that I will be making. And I mean that actually in a good way.
- [39:35]
G
Right.
- [39:35]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like it investing.
- [39:38]
G
Right?
- [39:38]
Mike Vorkanoff
Yeah. Like there's a lot of good choices that you're going to be able to make.
- [39:42]
G
Right.
- [39:42]
Mike Vorkanoff
Like that's why we see players investing in professional sports teams in other sports. Now you're going to. You're going to have to figure out how to tell no to all potential gamblers who are trying to get in your life and blow up your life.
- [39:55]
G
Right.
- [39:55]
Mike Vorkanoff
But, like, this is all creating revenue streams that you get to benefit in some way. So figuring out how to handle all that money, I think has never been more important because it's a good problem to have, but it is an important one to be able to solve.
- [40:06]
Zena
Yeah. What happened to pickleball? I remember when all those. Pickleball. It absolutely is a fake sport, but maybe we can invest here at the athletic NBA.
- [40:17]
Mike Vorkanoff
Any part of it.
- [40:20]
S. Baraheny
Care to differ? Okay. When I play pickleball, it is a full body.
- [40:24]
Zena
It's intense.
- [40:25]
Mike Vorkanoff
Wow.
- [40:26]
Zena
Okay, Good to know.
- [40:27]
Mike Vorkanoff
Every time I see people playing pickleball, I'm confused because why are they wasting their time?
- [40:31]
Zena
I totally. I've only seen it once or twice.
- [40:34]
S. Baraheny
But we're not going pickleball hate here. Okay. And I'm not even a huge pickleball player, but, yes, that's a really good point. There was a huge, like, influx of players doing that I'd rather them do in pickleball, though, rather than picking up a podcast. Mike, I'm. That's, you know, not all of us should be buying the equipment.
- [40:51]
Zena
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, sure.
- [40:55]
S. Baraheny
Well, I appreciate you, Mike, joining us and keeping us posted on everything that's going on with the league right now, the future of the league, how it might expand here in the States or overseas. We will continue to have you back to keep us up to date. That's all we can ask for because as of right now, it's all speculation. But we'd love to hear from you guys in terms of what you think the NBA is going to be focused on. Of course. Remember, private equity money from overseas. There's a lot. And yeah. AI. How can AI change Allen Iverson?
- [41:28]
Zena
What is he gonna.
- [41:28]
G
No.
- [41:30]
Mike Vorkanoff
That was a lob. I.
- [41:31]
S. Baraheny
Good job. That was good. That was very good. That was very good. Well, that's gonna be it for the NBA Daily. On behalf of Mike Vorkanov and S. Bar Henny, we appreciate you tuning in. Remember, that link is in the bio. Go give us our. Feed your feedback on us and keep us posted on what you want to see on the NBA Daily. All right. Enjoy the rest of your day.
- [42:17]
Butcherbox
The McDonald's snack wrap is back.
- [42:19]
Mike Vorkanoff
You brought it back. Ranch snack wrap. Spicy snack wrap. You broke the Internet for a Snack Snack Wrap is back.
- [42:32]
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