What is the Jazz Plan? + Who gets traded? | Slam N Jam

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily (Slam N’ Jam) – Episode Summary

Episode Title: What is the Jazz Plan? + Who Gets Traded?
Air Date: December 20, 2025
Hosts: Andrew Schlecht & Alex Spears
Special Guest: Sarah Todd, Deseret News

---

Episode Overview

This week’s Slam N’ Jam zeroes in on the Utah Jazz: their evolving young core, the front office's commitment to a long-term build, and the trade season landscape across the NBA. The hosts also spotlight standout moments and controversies from a wild NBA week, and cap things off with signature Jazz trivia against Sarah Todd. Engaging, irreverent banter and sharp basketball analysis set the tone throughout.

---

NBA Week in Review

[02:31–07:23]

• Knicks Win NBA Cup:

  • New York Knicks defeat San Antonio Spurs 124-113 in Las Vegas.
  • Jalen Brunson scores 25; wins Cup MVP. Mitchell Robinson nabs 15 boards in 18 minutes (10 offensive).
  • Knicks decide against hanging a Cup banner, but keep all five Atlantic Division banners in MSG.

• Spurs’ Outlook:

  • Despite Cup loss, optimism remains high: “Could the Spurs be the next team to use their NBA Cup loss as fuel for a deep postseason run?” [04:03]

• Warriors Struggles & Fan Emailing Owner:

  • Warriors fan directly emails owner Joe Lacob, receives candid response:
    “You can't be as frustrated as me. I am working on it. It’s complicated… Jimmy is not the problem.” [05:14]

• Noteworthy Games:

  • Pistons lose a close OT game to Dallas after a statement win in Boston.
  • Mavericks rookie Cooper Flagg becomes youngest ever to score 40+ (42 points) in a loss to the Jazz.
  • Pelicans upset Rockets in OT; Clippers slip toward the West's basement.
  • Hornets tie NBA record: 18 threes in a half; LaMelo Ball returns from injury and shines.

---

Good, Bad, What?!

[08:11–32:35]

The Good

[08:30–14:44]

• Andrew – Tyler Kolek's Emergence:

  • Previously quiet rookie bursts onto the scene in the NBA Cup final:
    "He didn't score double digits before the cup final... this is truly out of nowhere..." [09:03]
  • His growing presence gives Knicks unexpected depth and hope:
    "Perhaps they have found a nice bench player in Tyler Kolek, who is certainly a cup riser." [10:53]

• Alex – All-Star Watch: Jamal Murray:

  • Jamal Murray's Marvelous Season:
    • “25 points per game, 4 rebounds, 6.6 assists, shooting 50/46/89... all career-highs.” [11:45]
    • Alex argues “Jamal Murray has, in my opinion, finally reached undeniable All Star level.” [12:32]
  • Implications for Nuggets: Still a top contender with value in championship odds.

The Bad

[14:44–22:48]

• Andrew – NBA’s Disney “Dunk the Halls” Telecast:

  • Mocks the NBA's willingness to "try anything" to retain interest:
    “I just can’t believe this is happening. It’s a bad thing. Why can’t [we] just watch a basketball game?” [16:20]
  • Lighthearted debate about animated telecasts:
    • Andrew: “If you had Draymond Green as Sid from Toy Story... let’s go.” [18:13]

• Alex – State of NBA Refereeing:

  • Increasing frustration as officiating dominates fan discourse: “It's becoming impossible to avoid—when someone like Ben Taylor does a whole video on it…” [22:32]
  • Cites highlight-driven dialogue and rule inconsistencies (“the gather step”, “off arm abuse”):
    “We’ve seemingly gone backwards where offenses are again setting all-time efficiency records, but that’s almost entirely influenced by how the game is being called.” [21:34]
  • Wishes refs “would fade into the background.”

The What?!

[23:17–32:35]

• NBA Trade Rumors (via Sam Vecenie’s Trade Board):

  • Top trade targets: Anthony Davis, Trae Young, Domantas Sabonis, Coby White, Quentin Grimes.
  • Debates Dallas' options with Anthony Davis:
    Andrew: “Either you move him... or you offer him a contract extension. I think trading him is better at this point.” [24:27]
  • Depth of Dallas’ rebuild discussed, including lottery hopes with Cooper Flagg.
  • Importance of not letting a big contract (with potential injuries) derail a team’s future—reference to Embiid and Sixers.

• Wildest Game of the Week (Blazers vs Kings, Thursday):

  • “A comedy of errors” in the final two minutes, capped by questionable officiating.
  • Alex: “People say ‘free basketball’—I would have paid extra to watch that overtime, [it was] a masterpiece.” [30:47]
  • Mark Davis’ infamous late whistle reverses the result; both hosts incredulous.

---

Deep Dive: Utah Jazz – The Plan & The Young Core

Guest: Sarah Todd, Deseret News [33:49–48:44]

Keonte George’s Leap

— Best week of his career:

• “Not as many forced shots… more catch and shoot, playing to score, not hunting fouls.” [34:13]
• Major off-season feedback: “Hey man, time to grow up. Time to not feel entitled. You haven’t done anything yet.”
• Will Hardy’s public endorsement seen as a milestone: “He’s a really good player now.”

Ace Bailey: Surprise Young Contributor

• “Much more than advertised… he’s just so happy to be here… passes the ball a ton, totally not selfish.” [36:55]

Defense & Development

• Bailey’s defense: Willing, coachable, using length, but subject to rookie mistakes and nervousness. [39:03]
• Team context: “Judging defense on this team is tough; they’re 29th,” but positive on individual progress.

The Tank Question – Too Good to Tank?

• Sarah: “10 wins by mid-December is too many.” [40:51]
• Jazz are “very committed” to keeping this year’s pick (top-8 protected owed to OKC).
• Expect “creative” injury management & more minutes for raw prospects like Cody Williams.

Who Stays, Who Goes? Young Jazz Prospects

• Pressed on Isaiah Collier, Cody Williams, Taylor Hendricks, Bryce Sensabaugh, Walter Clayton Jr.:
  • Sarah: “Maybe Taylor Hendricks if I had to choose… but there’s a chance none of these guys are on the next great Jazz team, or even in the NBA.” [44:24]
  • “A lot of these guys don’t realize the golden opportunity they have… on another team, they’d be waived.” [45:48]

Front Office Intentions (Post-Tank)

• Reports: Utah wants to keep and build around Lauri Markkanen.
• “If you want to use him and not waste him, now’s the time... the Jazz have been handcuffed by this OKC pick.” [46:29]
• Outlook: “They’d love to try and go for it starting next season… If they’re still bad by January, they can pull the rug and tank again.” [48:17]
• Realistically, big free agents unlikely; improvement must mostly come via the draft and trades.

Fan Hopes vs. Reality

• “Some nights they’re scrappy and feel close; others remind you how far away they are in true talent.” [48:44]

---

Jazz Trivia – Andrew vs. The Beat (Sarah Todd)

[49:46–66:46]

• Fun, competitive round—big topics include Jazz two-man lineups (Flip & Lauri Markkanen have Jazz’s only heavily positive duo), all-time Jazz 30-point scorers (Malone, Dantley, Mitchell, etc.), and blocks leaders (Mark Eaton, Kirilenko, Gobert, etc).
• Notable Moment: Sarah stumped on deep-cut 1970s Jazz blocks leaders; Andrew wins in sudden death.
• Sarah: “I feel like that’s stolen valor… I don’t agree with the term.” [66:25]

---

Notable Quotes

• On the Cup Final’s unlikely hero:

  • “He didn’t score double digits before the cup final… this is truly out of nowhere.” – Andrew [09:03]

• On Jamal Murray’s All-Star case:

  • “I don’t even need to make a list of West All Stars to know that he should and will be in the game playing at his current level.” – Alex [12:32]

• On Disney’s Dunk the Halls:

  • “Why can’t just watch a basketball game? What are we doing here?” – Andrew [16:47]

• On Anthony Davis trade speculation:

  • “Either you do that or you offer him a contract extension this summer. What would be worse? I would argue offering him the contract extension would be far worse and just like doubling down on it.” – Andrew [24:27]

• On Utah’s young core:

  • “There’s a chance none of these guys are not only not on the next great Jazz team, but like, not in the NBA.” – Sarah Todd [44:24]

---

Key Timestamps

• NBA Cup + news rundown: 02:31–07:23
• Good, Bad, What?! Segment: 08:11–32:35
• Utah Jazz deep dive w/ Sarah Todd: 33:49–48:44
• Jazz prospects/commitment to tank: 40:51–46:29
• Trivia (Andrew vs. the Beat): 49:46–66:46

---

Tone and Style

The hosts mix sharp statistical analysis and reporting with playful, irreverent banter—a hallmark of Slam N’ Jam. Sarah Todd’s frankness and deep knowledge of the Jazz brings authenticity, and the whole episode is accessible to NBA fans at every level.

---

For Listeners: Why You Should Tune In

• Get the inside scoop on the shifting Jazz rebuild and why their tanking dilemma is real.
• Hear the sharpest, funniest NBA news recap on any podcast this week.
• Test your own Jazz history knowledge with the trivia segment.
• Enjoy the kind of chemistry and basketball nerdery that makes Slam N' Jam a must-listen, week after week.

Transcript

[Andrew Schlecht]

Hey, Andrew Schlecht here. The NBA on Prime is back this Friday with another thrilling doubleheader. It tips off with Tyrese Maxey and Those spunky Philadelphia 76ers heading up to Madison Square Garden to take on Jalen Brunson and the New York Knicks. Then the action heads west as SGA and the Oklahoma City Thunder visit Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves. That's a rematch of the Western Conference finals, by the way. And if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. Sixers and Knicks. The Thunder and the T Wolves. I can't wait to watch both these matchups. High powered guards in the Eastern Conference. Aries Max is taking a leap. If you haven't watched Iris Maxey play, this is the perfect setting. Everybody wants to play well at msg. And then Ant versus sga. We got Fire versus Ice. I mean, come on, everybody wants to watch this one. Coverage starts Friday at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Narrator/Announcer]

This season on hindsight.

[Sarah Todd]

My father always said there's two types of people in town.

[Narrator/Announcer]

People who are absolutely sure they won't get selected and those who don't get selected. This is the story of Fairview.

[Andrew Schlecht]

At first we thought it was part of the fireworks.

[Narrator/Announcer]

We do see that there are police who are approaching the stage. A town founded on a bridge. Brutal Faustian bargain. The annual removal of 10% of its least productive citizens. Join us for season one of Hindsight. The Fracture.

[Alex]

So good, so good, so good.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Score. Holiday gifts. Everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom Rack store. Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone, Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger, London and more.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Because there's always something new.

[Alex]

I'm giving all the gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom credit card.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Santa who join the Nord up at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. It's easy. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Welcome to the Saturday Slam and Jam. I'm your host, Andrew Schleck. On today's show, we're talking about the Utah Jazz. We're going to do some trivia. But before we do any of that, Alex, tell me what happened in the NBA this week.

[Alex]

Andrew Our top story this week is the world champion New York Knicks who won the NBA cup this week beating the San Antonio Spurs 124, 113. In Las Vegas, Jalen Brunson scored 25 points in the game, winning the NBA Cup MVP. But the most impressive performance might have been Mitchell Robinson, who grabbed 15 rebounds in only 18 minutes of play, including 10 offensive run rebounds. For all you for all you Cupheads out there, that is definitely the most offensive rebounds in an NBA cup final history. Now despite the big win, it was reported after the game that the Knicks would not be hanging a banner to celebrate the NBA cup win. The announcement was a massive disappointment for all cup respectors, but was welcome news for all the Atlantic Division respectors. Thankfully, the Knicks five Atlantic Division banners, which celebrate the seasons when the Knicks were better than four teams, will still hang proudly in msg. The Knicks have now won six in a row, only a game and a half back of the Pistons. Now for the spurs, it was a disappointing end of their cup run, but there's still a lot to be excited about. First to make it to the final, the spurs had arguably the biggest win of the season, defeating the Thunder 111 to 109 in the semifinals. Unlike OKC's first loss of the season, the Thunder were healthy, playing their normal starting lineup for the first time this season, OKC could not overcome minutes restriction. Victor Wembanyama, who returned to the spurs bench for the first time in a month. Wemby scored 22 points and was a game high plus 21 in only 21 minutes. Now the other thing for spurs fans to be excited about is the recent history of NBA Cup Finals losers. Two years ago, the Pacers bounced back from their devastating cup loss and made the Eastern Conference Finals. Last year, the Thunder rebound from literally their worst game of the season against the Bucs in the Cup Finals and won the championship. Could the spurs be the next team to use their NBA cup loss as fuel for a deep postseason run? One team that probably won't be making a deep postseason run is the Golden State Warriors. And when that reality begins to sink in for a proud franchise, what else is there to do but email the billionaire owner? This week, warriors fan Justin Dutari did just that. After searching for and finding an email for warriors owner Joe Acobing, Justin sent off an email voicing his frustrations about the need for a real second option. A true center complaining about the immense burden on Steph Curry. Surprisingly, Joe Lacob quickly responded writing quote, you can't be as frustrated as me. I am working on it. It's complicated style of play. Coaches desires regarding players league trends. Jimmy is not the problem. How many fan bases saw this story and were like what the hell, you can just Find their email and yell at them. The fan has a point though, because this week Steph Curry broke Michael Jordan's record for most 40 point games after turning 30 when Steph dropped 48 in a game against the Blazers. And yet it wasn't enough as The Blazers won 136 to 131. The warriors have now lost three in a row, dropping to 13 and 15, ninth in the Western Conference. Now, we didn't have a lot of games this week because the NBA cup, so let's talk about some of the crazy results we did get on Thursday night. Our first night with a full slate of games in a bit. One game after getting an impressive road win in Boston, cementing their place atop the Eastern Conference, the Pistons dropped an overtime game to the Dallas Mavericks 116 to 114. The Mavs have won six of their last eight, and in one of those games they did lose. Cooper Flag set an historic NBA record, becoming the youngest player in NBA history to score 40 points after he scored 42 in a loss to our Utah Jazz, breaking a record previously held by LeBron. The Pelicans also got a surprising overtime win on Thursday night, beating the Rockets 133 to 128, led by Sadiq Bay season high 29 points. It is the Pelicans third consecutive win, which means the Clippers are now only a half game out of being the worst team in the Western Conference. The other surprising win was the Hornets getting the win over the Hawks 133 to 126. Now maybe the win itself isn't that surprising, but it's how the Hornets did it. Charlotte tied an NBA record with 18 three pointers in the first half, including seven from LaMelo Ball in his return from an ankle injury. Lamelo finished with 28. Con Canipol had 28, Brandon Miller had 26. The game was also Trae Young's return to the lineup, who only played 20 minutes in the loss. And those were the top stories this week.

[Andrew Schlecht]

What a what? What a week. What a week. Got back from Vegas with the NBA Daily Crew a couple days ago. Great to be with them. Great to just see NBA fans in Vegas. It was. It was a great time.

[Alex]

Is this your third NBA Cup? Have you been there since the beginning?

[Andrew Schlecht]

I have been to every single NBA. NBA Cup.

[Alex]

Geez Louise. I mean, I mean you're setting yourself up for like 30 years. You could be the NBA Cup. The preeminent NBA cup is.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I could be. I could be the cup expert.

[Alex]

That could be like you make that your thing.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Golly, I've been looking for a thing for a while.

[Alex]

This is it. This is the thing. Quit the athletics. Start your own podcast. Just about the NBA Cup. 12 months out of the year, multiple times per week.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I just changed my last name to Cups. Andrew Cups.

[Alex]

That'd be cool. Andrew. Speaking of the cup, we're going to talk about some things we like this week, some things we didn't like, and some things that left us a little confused in the segment we call Good, Bad. What. So Andrew, what was your good this week?

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm going to, I'm going to take it back to the cup because apparently that's my thing. I want to talk about Tyler Kolek, who was awesome in the NBA Cup. In the cup final, he had 14, five and five, one turnover, two made threes, saved the Knicks butts in this game. Alex, I want to ask you a trivia question. Oh. How many times before the cup final did Tyler Cullick score?

[Alex]

Zero.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Double digits. Double digits.

[Alex]

Zero.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's zero.

[Alex]

Oh yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He didn't score double digits before the cup final. Al.

[Alex]

He's a cup riser.

[Andrew Schlecht]

He is. He had two games where he'd scored eight points. That was his career high. And in 22 games that he played, he scored zero points. He's in his two year NBA career. Like this is truly out of nowhere. And I know like there's, there's a story that James Edwards put out there about how hard he's been working behind the scenes and all that. Like that has to be a part of his story. Like he couldn't just not be working hard behind the scenes. But the dude, like I stood next to him, I, we are probably about the same height. Like he, it's, it's pretty impressive. Like I'm, I'm like just under 6ft. He's probably there. I know he's listed at 6, 2. Not buying it, but this dude is, is awesome. And not only did he play great in the NBA cup, but he just had a nice game to save the Knicks butts again against Indianapolis where he had 16 points, 11 assists, six boards. He's, he's a good player and a guy that the Knicks who were just desperate for depth last season, just like anybody could we get anybody. And he's played really well for them. And to just have another creator off the bench, he's a really, really good passer, certainly a great live dribble passer, a guy that can do that for them and has a ton of toughness. I mean, he's like flexing on Wimby. Like, he just, he is like a really good basketball player. And so for Knicks fans who have been clamoring for him, by the way, behind the scenes want this guy to play more, it's a really good sign for him. Like, he's, he's playing really well. And perhaps they have found like a nice bench player in Tyler Colic who is certainly a cup riser.

[Alex]

Yeah. And the big question now is just how many of these guys are you going to be able to play in the playoffs? You know, how many of Jordan Clarkson, Tyler Kulik, Yabu Selli, how many of those guys are you going to be confident in once you get to the playoffs? And you're probably not going to find out until the playoffs, which is why I, you know, I have heard, you know, talks about the Knicks maybe trying to make a move for just one more depth piece. And I do like that idea because it still does worry me a little bit when you get to the playoffs, how many of these guys we're actually going to be able to trust.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Sure. But even if you move off of somebody and you have colic sitting there like you, at least you don't feel like, oh my gosh, there's this guy has like no shot of being good. Yeah.

[Alex]

And, and I mean, maybe this is, turns everything around. Maybe he comes a staple of the rotation following this, this cup win.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Is this a colic sanity that is just like about to emerge in New York?

[Alex]

Let's go for my good. I want to talk about the All Star game because All Star voting opened up this week. I think we have one of the strongest crop of potential first time All Stars we've had in a long while. Austin Reeves, Chet Holmgren, Jalen Johnson, Jalen Duran, Duran, Danny Abdia, maybe Josh Giddey since the Bulls decide to start winning some games this week. But the one guy who I want to talk about because I think it's finally going to happen is Jamal Murray. Yeah, he has been on an absolute undeniable heater. Listen to this line. 25 points per game, 4 rebounds, 6.6 assists, shooting 50, 46.89 for the season. Everywhere you look, he is averaging a career high. Points, rebounds, assists, three point volume, three point percentage, two point percentage, free throw volume, all of those at career highs at age 28. Jamal Murray has, in my opinion, finally reached undeniable All Star level, where I don't even need to make a list of West All Stars to know that he should and will Be in the game playing at his current level. And he had a massive week. He scored 35 in that super fun Nuggets Rockets overtime game. Also, those teams are playing again today on Saturday. The first two games were two of the best games of the season. So excited for that. He got to the line 15 times in that game, which tied a career high. But maybe you're not impressed by free throws. Well, the next game against Orlando, he goes out and hits 7 of 12 from three. Only the 13th time in his career that he's done that. Now the Nuggets did have that weird little blip where they brief briefly threw us off the scent. They lost to the Bulls, the Kings, spurs in Dallas. They went 4 and 4 during that stretch. But they now share the longest winning streak in the NBA at six games with the Knicks. They're solidly back in the second spot in the west at 20 and 6. And of course they've righted this ship without two of their starters, Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown. And what's crazy is if you look at who they lost to and by how much, if those two guys are available for a couple of those games, this team would probably be a game or two back of OKC, which is crazy. They could easily be like 22 and 4 right now. In my opinion. Jamal Murray has a near flawless case for making the All Star Game. And more broadly this Nuggets team, they tricked us for a couple of weeks with some bad losses, but they remain the no brainer pick for winning the championship. If you're not going to take okc, in my opinion, like if you think there's any chance OKC doesn't win this year, getting Denver at plus 700 odds, which is still what they're going for, that's crazy. Denver's great value. This is a really good team. So they are my good this week. Andrew.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, he's been ridiculous. Yeah, it's fine. It's finally time for Jamal Murray to make the All Star team.

[Alex]

Finally have and not like he's not going to be an injury replacement. Like this is like a locked in All Star performance so far.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Dude, we're like five years removed from Bubble Murray and like he's just now making the All Star team. That's crazy.

[Alex]

Let's flip it around. Let's get a little negative. Andrew, what was your bad this week?

[Andrew Schlecht]

My bad this week is a press release that came from Walt Disney. I don't know if you are aware of.

[Alex]

What's he up to?

[Andrew Schlecht]

What? What Mr. Walt's been up to, you know. You know what Dunk the Halls is?

[Alex]

I do not know what Dunk the Halls is.

[Andrew Schlecht]

All right, so if. If you're unaware of what Dunk the Halls is, they tried this last year, and it's where they play a game so that this year, it's the Cavs, Knicks are going to be on television, and then you can turn to this alternate channel, and instead of watching a real basketball game, you can watch the players. That looks. It kind of looks like a video game, but it's like, I don't know. Carl Anthony Towns, I think, was on this last year to the Knicks. Was he on. Yeah, on the Knicks, where he was Goofy. And you can watch Jalen Brunson as Chip and Dale. You know, like, it's this cartoonized, like, version of an actual game that's happening.

[Alex]

And you're against this.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You know, they tried it last year. It's just funny that, like, the NBA is like, God, we will try anything. We'll do anything. We have to keep changing the All Star Game. It has to keep changing to keep everybody's attention. And then they played Dunk the Halls last year. You don't even know what it was. And they're like, you know what? Run it back. And then, not only run it back, let's add Stitch is what they decided to do.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Stitch is going to be making his Dunk the Halls debut. I just can't believe this is happening. Like, I just. To me, it's just a very strange thing. I tuned in for it, and as I'm watching it, I just thought, there's no way they're running back Dunk the Halls. But you know what? They're running back Dunk the Halls. I think it's a bad thing. Well, like, why can't just watch a basketball game?

[Alex]

Like, what is happening? Andrew, everything you've said so far has just got me more excited for Dunk.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I knew it. Listen, I knew it would. I want you to actually watch it, because I watched it last year, and it was. It was odd. It was. It was. I just. I'm like, I don't understand who this is exactly. For, like, what's. Like, who are they? Who are they targeting here?

[Alex]

I will say they could boost the roster a little bit. You know, they're using a lot of the classic Disney characters. They're fine, but I feel like they're a little outdated. You know, I was watching there was a NFL version of this. Yeah. You got to see, like, Mike Wazowski do a Kickoff now, sure you can't tell me you don't want to see Mike Wazowski do a kickoff, huh? What about Big Sully running it in the.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I am, now that I'm thinking about it. Pretty intrigued by the football version of that. The basketball version. I'm just out on. I'm completely, completely out on. It's like, well, our basketball game isn't entertaining enough. Let's make sure that these guys are Donald Goofy. Okay?

[Alex]

Donald Goofy. I. I think they just need to switch up the characters. I. I think if. If we had more representation from the.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Pixar crew, we had, like, Toy Story guys out there.

[Alex]

Yes. Toy Story. If you had Wally. As Wally players.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex]

Ratatouille. Like, you're. You're tuning in for that. Mickey and Minnie, Donald. I've seen these guys.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I mean, I know what they're about. Yeah. If you had, like, Draymond Green as Sid from Toy Story.

[Alex]

Oh, wow.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You know, like, let's go. If they made it more thematic like that. Instead it's just like, hey, now it's Josh Hart as Pluto. It's like, what. What are we doing here? What are we doing here? Okay.

[Alex]

Okay. That's Andrew's opinion. My opinion. We actually need to expand this. There should be an alternate telecast for every NBA game for the holidays.

[Andrew Schlecht]

For the whole season. For the whole season.

[Alex]

Yeah. No.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You want Dunk the Halls for every game.

[Alex]

I get what you're saying, and you are. You are a father, so. I mean, if your kids were really into this, I feel like you would know.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I turned it on. I turned the. I turned Dunk the Halls on last year. I was the only one watching it. And then when we turned the actual basketball games back on, my kids were back in the.

[Alex]

What if. What if they added the Diff? Actually, the Diff might be on it because the Cavs are playing.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. I was gonna say we might be presented with the diff as Donald Goofy gives a. Gets a alley oop, you know.

[Alex]

Okay, well, that was your bad this week. Mine's much different. My bad this week. I unfortunately, am going to talk about the state of refereeing in the NBA. And I say unfortunately because I hate talking about the refs. I hate that I can match the name Mark Davis to a face. I don't want to be able to do that. I don't want to say to myself during a game, oh, Finchy's big mad at Zack Zarba. I don't want to say those words in my head. I've complained about how much of the NBA discussion comes back to foul calls because I think it's the least interesting part of the game and it's usually the least interesting conversations. But I have to admit at this point it's a problem because when Adam Silver called the NBA a highlight sport, he wasn't wrong in that a lot of the discussion about the league centers around highlights around specific plays. And when a non insignificant number of those highlights the plays that are stimulating discussion among your fans are foul calls, it is a problem. And I don't think that's going away. And this week I'm going to briefly flip this from a bad to a good we got what I think is the best summation of the current issues with officiating in the form of a YouTube video from Ben Taylor at Thinking Basketball. Ben spent 20 minutes detailing some of the biggest areas of the game that are currently being abused by offenses. Things like moving screens, the gather step use of the off arm, and then just running over defenders, everyone becoming Giannis. I thought his use of highlights from NBA games in the 2010s showing how different the game is called from not that long ago was really good because he's got so many clips from the early Thunder years of Katie and Russ getting called for things that would barely register for a ref today. And I thought that comparison was a really helpful visual to explain how much things have changed in such a short time span despite the rules not changing at all. You know, it's not like he's showing clips of the Jordan rules, you know, in the early 90s or something. I'm watching Russell Westbrook getting called for barely using his off arm on a play. Again. I hate talking about this stuff because it's become such a huge part of the conversation.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It seems like you don't, but just keep going.

[Alex]

I just don't think it can be ignored anymore. And I'm talking about this week because I think it's significant that Ben Taylor's doing a video on it. Like we're talking about the same guy who did a video last season explaining why a lot of SGA's foul calls are actually fouls. You know, it felt like we had gotten to a decent place in the second half of last season and into the playoffs where things got really physical. The refs were letting teams play and fans were generally happy with the changes. I know there were still complaints during the playoffs, but those finals, the way indie matched OKC's physicality, I thought that was awesome. But now we've seemingly gone backwards where offenses are Once again setting all time efficiency records. But that added efficiency is being almost entirely influenced by how the game is being called. My stance has always been. I just don't want to talk about this stuff. I don't want to know the names of the refs. I don't want to see highlights of questionable foul calls. I don't care that Bill Kennedy is being a little goober at the scorers table. I don't care. I want to care.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I do care about that.

[Alex]

I know you so good. I want to focus on the basketball. But it's becoming increasingly harder to do that when seemingly everyone, including someone I really respect, like Ben Taylor is talking about the officiating. So that is why it's my bad this week.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, yeah, Ben, Ben is the man and like somebody who's un, he's, he's completely reliable with almost everything that he talks about. So yeah, even on Thursday night there was this like call in Diviny Abdia that ended up like deciding the game.

[Alex]

Brother, don't. That is, we're getting to that. Okay. So. Okay, that's going to be my what?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay. All right. We won't talk about it. We won't talk about it right now because it is, it is mind boggling.

[Alex]

What is your what this week?

[Andrew Schlecht]

You ever, you ever re gifted anything, Al?

[Alex]

Oh yeah. A lot of kids toys. Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Kids toys. It's trade season and our, our good friend and frequent slam and jam guest Sam Vicini has put out his NBA trade board for 25, 26. And the top guys on his trade board who are these teams are hoping to re gift them to somebody else. Yes. Anthony Davis, number one, Trey Young, number two, Demonis Sabonis, number three. Kobe White, four. And Quinton Grimes, number five. Of all of those Al, who do you expect to actually be moved before the deadline?

[Alex]

I, I, I, I'd be surprised if Quentin Grimes got moved. Is that must be a tax thing.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, I think it. And it's also just like a contract thing for him.

[Alex]

I mean the way that Mavs are talking, it seems like they're not going to move Anthony Davis.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I kind of think they're going to. I kind of think they're going to. Are they going to extend him? It's either you move them.

[Alex]

No, that's, that's the part that I just like.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think they're going to try to move him. I think they're going to try to move him. And the best fits from Vicini, Pistons, Hawks, Raptors, Celtics. I kind of have a feeling that this just feels like. And I've had a conversation with a friend of mine that it's like, you know what? I just feel like the Raptors are the team that's going to do this. It just feels like a Raptors thing. Like, the Raptors are not going to be able to bring in guys via free agency. One, they don't have cap space or the money to do it, but even if they did, they couldn't. They're not going to be in position to get a high draft pick. Like, how can they increase their ceiling from where they're at? I just wonder if there's something there with the Raptors and Anthony Davis. And I just feel like the. There's a sunk cost that's happened in Dallas where it's like, yeah, does it look good to trade the guy that you, you know, traded your star player, a guy that would have shaped your team for the next decade? You traded him, then you trade him months later. Like, yeah, it looks terrible. But either you do that or you offer him a contract extension this summer. What would be worse? I would argue our offering him the contract extension would be far worse and just, like, doubling down on it. So I just. I just feel like Anthony Davis is going to get moved. I wonder if he's going to get moved to a team like the Raptors. I like the fits that he put there. The Celtics is very interesting. I really don't know what they could do to pull that off, just because the amount of money that AD makes. But the Raptors seems to make a lot of sense when it comes to, like, how that team has been built and kind of how they prioritize building their team through trade and through guys that are a little bit undervalued, which I would say Anthony Davis is right now. But, yeah, I kind of think that AD Is going to be moved.

[Alex]

One thing I've been thinking about is, you know, I. I'm, of course, always obsessed with picks and stuff, and so I'm looking at this Dallas situation like, oh, my gosh, you have this golden opportunity to get a high pick to pair with Cooper Flag.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex]

How. How is that not priority number one? But I will say, the fact that he is 18, I at least understand the other argument because, yeah, they don't own their pick for the next four years after this one. Yeah, they could get to that point. And Cooper flag's still only 23. Isn't that cr. They. They could get through this entire period of darkness where they're not going to own their pick. And he'll be like, 20, 23 or 24. Which is about the age that Shea was when they started adding young players to the Thunder.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, exactly.

[Alex]

So maybe, like, it could work. Maybe you could be competitive for a couple seasons with AD And Kyrie when he comes back. And then you reset when Cooper is 23 or 24 like he is. It's as bad as things have been in Dallas. Like, the fact that he is 18 and scoring 40 points in an NBA game, like, it really does open the possibilities where in some ways, you can't do too much wrong right now. Like, I. I was kind of against the idea of them keeping this team together, but the more I thought about it, I'm like, I guess it's not the worst thing in the world if. If they were competitive for the next couple years just because he is so young.

[Andrew Schlecht]

But they're just not even competitive, though.

[Alex]

Oh, really, Andrew? They just beat the Pistons.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm aware of that.

[Alex]

They've watched the last eight.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay. What is competitive in the Western Conference?

[Alex]

I mean, if. If they got. And they will get Kyrie back and have AD going into next season, like, I.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Why.

[Alex]

Why can't they be, like, you know, six, seven in the West? That would shock me.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, that's just not. I mean, it's just not what. What any of this was for, you know?

[Alex]

I know, but that's gone. That. That's. That whatever this was for isn't happening. Anyways.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm. I. And I don't think there was. There was one person on earth that thought it was actually possible.

[Alex]

And if you're. If. If you are trading AD you're really giving up on that? Because I really do think there could still be some upside, not like, championship upside with this team if they're all healthy, but, like, a good Western Conference team. If you trade AD Right now, like, the package better be really good or why bother?

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I don't know. I just wouldn't want to trap myself in a contract with AD if, like, what if he just can't do it anymore.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Like, due to injuries. Like, that, to me is like, the scariest thing is, like, now you've got, like, this giant contract on your books, and you're maybe in, like, the same boat as the Sixers with Embiid, where it's just like, what do we. What do we do here? Like, I'm more of the mind, like, trade them while you feel like you can. Because, like, we. We see an example of this in Eastern Conference where, like, who's Trading for dwelling bead. I mean, nobody.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah, it could. It could get ugly fast if. If things turn. But I. I just. I'm just saying I'm at least open to the idea now that they could be competitive for the next couple years and maybe that would be.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That's very reasonable. It's very reasonable. I just. I just wonder if they even want to extend him.

[Alex]

Yeah. Yeah, that. That is scary. That is the scariest part of all this, including for the teams that are thinking about trading for him. Okay, Andrew. My what this week was. Whatever the Blazers and Kings were up to on Thursday night, truly one of the more hilarious games of the season.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It was so crazy.

[Alex]

It was so funny. The Blazers were up by 15 with a minute 57 left in the game. The Kings go on a 172 run to force overtime. And those final two minutes, I mean, just a comedy of errors for Portland. They fouled a three point shooter. They had a bad pass turnover. They missed four free throws in the final 28 seconds. Individually, none of these are that funny. But in succession, the funniest. By the time we got to DeMar DeRozan's game tying corner three, I was crying. Even on that play. He only got possession because the inbounds pass from Westbrook randomly bounces off Keegan Murray and Denny Abdia straight into demar's hand. And it wasn't like, like. The Kings obviously had to play really well in those final two minutes, but they didn't play flawlessly. There was a. Their play where Reynaud could have gotten a rebound and it went out of bounds and went back to the Blazers under. Under a minute left. So they. They weren't even playing perfect. And they somehow were able to come back. People a lot of times will say free basketball when a team ties it up. Andrew, I would have paid extra to watch that. Over time, I want to see how that stupid game was going to end. And of course, the way it ends made it a masterpiece. Clinging misses, two free throws could have given Portland a three point lead. On next play, DeMarrozen Once again, it's a big shot. Turnaround jumper. Give The Kings a 1 point lead with 4 point second, 4.4 seconds left. Denny gets the ball, races up the court, just runs into two guys, throws up a shot as time expires, he misses it. The game's over. The Kings are celebrating. They're so happy at what they just did. All of a sudden, Mark Davis on the other side of the court, way behind the play. I don't even know if he had crossed half court by the time that foul happened, if it happened. He starts blowing his whistle. I did not hear a whistle before time expired. But now he's whistling away. He's whistling. He's whistling over and over again. That was a bad whistle.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It was a horrible whistle. But I got your dog going.

[Alex]

I did get my dog going. I guess I could have just actually whistled something like that. They call a foul, Denny goes to the line, sinks both free throws. Game over. It was the, it was the most what deserving game all season. And shout out to Maxime Reyno. He had 29, 11 in this game. He's been on fire ever since Sabonis went down. He's been taken over. He started their last five games. He looks like just another good rookie from this class. Yeah, but also what was that game?

[Andrew Schlecht]

What in the world? What?

[Alex]

What was that game, Andrew?

[Andrew Schlecht]

That was just garbage. The end of that one just doesn't make sense. Oh my gosh. Something that doesn't always make a ton of sense is the Utah Jazz. We're going to talk about them right after this quick break.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Foreign.

[Alex]

It is time once again for the Wheel of Fandom, the weekly segment where we spin a wheel, it lands on a team and we become fans of that team for the next week. And last week the wheel landed on the Utah Jazz who I would say had a pretty fun week. The Jazz won their first two games beating Memphis and Dallas before losing a competitive game to the Lakers. Despite not having Laurie markkanen Over the three games, Keonte George scored 110 points including a career high 39 in the win over the Grizzlies. Per cleaning the glass, the 10 and 16 Jazz have the 19th ranked offense and 29th ranked defense. Andrew, if the Jazz are our favorite team, who is our guest?

[Andrew Schlecht]

We've got Sarah Todd of the Desert News. Sarah, thanks for joining the Saturday Slammin Jam.

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah, not a problem. Glad to be here.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So Sarah, this was the best week of Keonte George's career so far. He's taken a massive leap this season hitting career highs across the board. What have been some of the main improvements in his game compared to years one and two?

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah, I think shot profile is one he's not taking it's and not just like where the shots are falling from but how he's taking them. So not as many forced shots. He's not trying to like ISO into threes as much as he was. A lot of it's coming more on catch and shoot stuff or like dribbling into it in rhythm and transition, stuff like that. He's also not hunting fouls as much. He's just like playing to score. So I think that's where he gets a bump in efficiency just on two points. But I think, you know, for me personally, having been around him for three years, that the biggest difference that I see is just maturity. He was given some really blunt off season and exit interview feedback. He was basically told like, hey man, time to grow up. Time to not start feeling entitled and like, you haven't done anything. You haven't proven that you're anybody yet. So let's work on that part of your mind before you start expecting anything. So, and that's, that's really where I've seen the biggest difference with him is just how he's kind of approaching things and that he's more willing to kind of give of himself to the team rather than expecting for the team to work for him.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It's cool to see Will Hardy, like really cape for him. I was just saying that it's, it was really cool to see Will Hardy cape for him after the last game just like, hey, there's like, he's a really good player now.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Sarah Todd]

And like, I mean, in my defense and everyone else's defense, talking about Keonte George over the last like 25 games, I don't think that there's been too many people that have tried to give excuses on why Keonte is good this season other than like, oh, yeah, he's changed. But like, yeah, that's great for, you know, one of your best players to be able to hear that your coach in front of a camera and a microphone is like, nobody should have an excuse for why this is happening. It's not happening because Lowry's playing better this season. It's not happening because of anything other than like the work that Keonte is doing.

[Alex]

Yeah. I want to ask you about Ace Bailey because his role has been steadily increasing since the early season. There's been plenty of flashes as an off ball movement shooter, which was kind of the, the sell on him going into the draft. What have you thought about the rest of his game and what are your expectations for how the Jazz are going to explore his game the rest of the season. Are you expecting to see more heavy on ball minutes with him?

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah. I mean, as the Jazz progress their season with the hopes that they're not going to win too many more games.

[Alex]

Right.

[Sarah Todd]

I expect for there to be like a lot more Ace Bailey just so that they can kind of give him A Runway. And I, as in years past, I think that you can expect more of, like, Lowry sitting or other guys not playing on certain nights. And so that's just going to give a bigger Runway for a lot of the young guys on the team, but especially Ace Bailey. I mean, I think what has surprised me the most is that he is so much more than advertised. And then also nothing at all. Like, he was advertised. Like, he came in because of his, you know, management and representation issues as a guy that everyone was, like, this selfish, entitled, horrible kid. And it's just so far from the truth because he couldn't be happier to just be in the NBA. I've never seen. I've never seen a teenager come into the NBA and just, like, so willing to be like, yes, coach, anything you need, I am just happy to be here. I will be the loudest one clapping. Does anybody need water? Like, he's just so happy to be here. And also passes the ball a ton. He's not selfish. But if you, you know, put it in context, what was happening at Rutgers, it's like, yeah, we want Ace bailey to score 35 points, so just put the ball in his hands and let him do whatever he wants. And if he knows that his teammates aren't going to make the shots, then, like, why would he pass it to them? And he's in a completely different situation where he's like, yeah, Lowry's the guy that I want to have the ball in his hands. I will pass it to him every time. So he's. He's really smart, he's really athletic, and I'm. All of the tiny little flashes that we've seen. It just makes me so excited about what else is coming in the future.

[Alex]

How hard is it to judge defense on this team? You know, Like, I think they're 29th, I said in defense. And Ace Bailey kind of had that reputation, like, oh, this guy's going to be, like, a pretty good defender one day. What have you seen on that end from him?

[Sarah Todd]

Willingness is the first thing. So, you know, like, he's clearly been told by whatever coach it is that, like, you better be in a low stance anytime that you're on the ball, and I want you communicating no matter what, or you're just not going to be on the court because he is just, like, perfectly positioned and constantly talking. And so he's trying to do all the right things right now. And I think that just, like, nervousness and newness to the league is not something that's worn off and is probably going to take him a while. Like these guys are coming in younger and younger now. And so yeah, he seems like that. He seems like a teenager, which he is. And so. But he's so long and he's so long in wingspan and like his legs are so long. And so there have been moments where like, he's closed out on a corner and gotten there way faster than expected and is knows how to use his length in those situations and he just moves quickly. And there's also been plenty of mess ups and plenty of times that he's like completely out of position, like on a shift or a rotation. But you know that's going to happen. He's a rookie.

[Alex]

Right, right, right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

You wrote an article this week titled are the Jazz Winning Too Much? Alex and I are pretty familiar with watching a team that might be, quote, too good to tank. We actually made shirts for the Heart Thunder podcast that said too good to tank on them. This team has been pretty competitive this season, even after the loss of Walker Kessler, which has been kind of surprising. How committed do you think the organization is to ensuring that there is a. That they get their top eight protected pick and not send it to okc? And like, how much will we see Lowry throughout the rest of the season?

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah, I think the organization is very committed. I have no doubts that. You know, when I wrote that article that you're talking about, you know, that's 10 wins by mid December and that is too many. Like, we've got seven teams in the NBA that are on pace to finish with like fewer than 25 wins. And if you want to be guaranteed top eight, you've got to finish like fourth, worst or worse. And 10 wins in December is just crazy if you're trying to tank. So they can't really win more than 12 games the rest of the way out. And I feel like the front office is pretty committed to that. So, you know, last night was kind of one of the first indications. Lowry out with what is what was called groin injury management, and I'm surprised to hear that he's managing a groin injury that did not exist before yesterday.

[Alex]

So.

[Sarah Todd]

And I would expect many more of the same types. I expect so many Cody Williams minutes to come.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah. It is really interesting though because like in past seasons they had veterans that they could offload. Like there was like, other things you could do to tank. And now they've gotten to this point where it really is just the young guys and so they are just going to have to sit them more or like, you Said play Cody Williams more, which I kind of. I have a question. Kind of related to him, because beyond guys like Keonte George, Ace Bailey, Flip, the Jazz have a ton of young guys that I don't know what to do with just yet. So if you had to bet that one of Isaiah Collier, Cody Williams, Taylor Hendricks, Bryce Sensibaugh, or Walter Clayton Jr. Were going to be on the next great Jazz team, who would you pick out of that group?

[Sarah Todd]

Man, that's difficult. I might. Okay. Immediately, I'm. I'm narrowed it down to Bryce Sensibaugh and Taylor Hendricks.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Sarah Todd]

And here are the problems. Is, like, Taylor Hendricks has two NBA things that could keep him in the league, right? He can shoot the three, and he is strong and big, and so that can. That can keep you in the NBA for a few years. Likewise, Bryce Sensibaugh can shoot the three incredibly. So, like, just being a shooter can usually keep you in the league, too. Problems? We have no idea if Taylor Hendricks can reliably play basketball, because his rookie season, it was like, ooh, this guy's not ready. And then he played three games and broke his leg. So that's where we are right now. And he's just coming off having missed a year, so his reaction time is horrible. He's just getting back into, like, playing regular rotation minutes. And so I have no idea what it really looks like for Taylor Hendricks to do anything. And Bryce Sensbach cannot play defense. So if you're able to be hunted, that makes it difficult for you to be a good shooter and stay on the floor. Unless you're J.J. redick. Right? Like, Right. So I think that I would bet on athleticism between the two and just go with Taylor Hendricks. But, I mean, yeah, there's. There's a chance. None of these guys are not only not on the next great Jazz team, but, like, not in the NBA.

[Alex]

Right.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Well, I'm. I'm kind of glad that was your answer, because that's how I'm feeling about these guys. Like, I just don't know who to buy into right now. I'm hoping that we get some more Walter Clayton Jr. Minutes as the season goes on. You know, he's. He's a rookie, so there could be something there. But, yeah, I just really struggle with all of these guys.

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah. I mean, when you look at Isaiah Collier, right? Like, he had a good game against the Lakers, and he's had. He's had good games for the Jazz. He. He looked like he had a. He looks like he has a Lot of potential. But then when you kind of peel the layers back a little bit, the truth is that he's small and either can't shoot, doesn't shoot, or is scared to shoot. And small and can't shoot as a point guard is just not someone who's going to be on a team that's actually trying to win playoff games.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Sarah Todd]

And then if you're, you know, Walter Clayton Jr. Opportunity hasn't been there yet to show me that I should bet on him for anything long term. And I described the Taylor Hendricks and Bryce Sensibach conundrum. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of the guys on this team right now who don't realize the really golden opportunity they have with the Jazz because were they on another team, they would have been waived.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. Yeah. So there's been reports lately that Utah is fully committed to marketing long term. Is your expectation that regardless of what happens with this pick, that Utah will make moves this summer to officially end the tank and try to bring in more talent?

[Sarah Todd]

Expectation from who?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Good question. Front office, like, what's, what is, what is your thought on, like, what. What's going to happen with this team? Like, if they're committed to marketing? Marketing is not some, like, super young guy, you know, and so if you do want to build around him, you got to get that thing going pretty quickly is kind of my thought.

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah, I mean, Lowry's 20, 27 now, and so, you know, we're, we're in his prime.

[Andrew Schlecht]

We're.

[Sarah Todd]

We're there. And so if you, if you want to use him and not waste him, like, now's the time to go. I think that the Jazz being kind of handcuffed by this OKC pick the last few years has forced them into this situation a little bit. That being said, like, we all know the NBA, we all know Utah. And so it's not like there are a lot of big time free agents that are going to be like clamoring to move to Salt Lake City. And even when it comes to trades, like, you have to have trade partners that have, if you have big time players, like, usually the players are a part of this discussion on where they want to end up. We see that happening with Giannis. Like, there's, there's a preferred list and teams usually work within those bounds. That being said, the Jazz do have a history of not really giving into those demands. Whether or not they can find a partner that'll do the same remains to be seen. So, like, building through the draft is a must with all of that in mind, they would love to try and go for it starting next season. So, like this summer, if they can, like, get some pieces in where they really feel like they're going to try and win games, I expect for them to think that's going to happen. And then what I kind of think is possible is that they try to win games and then once January rolls around, they evaluate, are we still a bad team? And if they are, then they can always pull the rug out and tank again.

[Alex]

Yeah. I do feel like the start to this season, though, I mean, especially compared to the last couple seasons, has to give fans some hope that even if they add one or two pieces, like, this team could be solid as soon as next year. Which I wouldn't have said at the beginning of this season. I would not have said, oh, they just. They're just one or two pieces away from just being a solid Western Conference team. And it does. Does it feel that way to you?

[Sarah Todd]

Sometimes I. There are nights where it feels like, man, there are some scrappy guys on this team. Like, this could be good if they got a couple of guys in here. And there are some nights where it feels a little bit like. I just, I think the Lakers game is a good example of like, of that in that if that was a, an actual, like, postseason game. I just think that the Lakers are so much better and have so much more talent that there's guys. I mean, luka had a 45 point triple double and I still think, like, well, Luca didn't really seem like he was trying that hard. And so like, I just think that it's going to require so much more of the guys that are already on the team and then the type of help that they need in order to be competitive in the Western Conference. It needs to be like, really big talent because a Lowry Markkanen led team with Keonte George. Like, I just, I think you're playing it best there.

[Alex]

Well, Sarah, thank you for answering all of our questions about the Jazz. But it is now time to play Andrew versus the Beat, our weekly trivia show where Andrew goes head to head with an NBA beat writer this week. Sarah Todd from the Desert News. Now, Sarah, how this works is I've come up with eight questions about the Utah Jazz. You're gonna give me a number between 1 and 8. It'll correspond to a question. Some are easy, some are hard. If you get it right, you'll get at least two points. Points. If you get it wrong, Andrew will have a chance to steal for one and we'll go back and forth until all the questions have been asked and answered. So to start us off, Sarah, I just need a number between one and eight.

[Sarah Todd]

Three.

[Alex]

Question number three. Only one of Utah's 15 most played two man lineups has a positive net rating. And get this, it's a plus 12.3 in 292 minutes.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex]

Who are the two players in that lineup now? You do get one point per correct answer.

[Sarah Todd]

Impressive 290 minutes played together this season.

[Alex]

Yes. I don't actually know how it's possible for one two man lineup to be that good while all the other ones in the top 15 are negative. But it is true.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah. That is wild.

[Sarah Todd]

It feels like, oh man. It feels like I should just go obvious. But it feels like if it was this obvious then the team would be good with that kind of a net rating. Okay, I'm just gonna go. Lowry Marketing and Keante George.

[Alex]

Well, I'm glad you said Larry first because that is correct for one point, but is not Keonte George.

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah.

[Alex]

So Andrew, you could steal a point. You can name the other player.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh boy. What about my guy Flip.

[Alex]

It is your guy Flip.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Let's go.

[Sarah Todd]

Your guy. I didn't know that we had big flip heads.

[Alex]

Oh, big flip ads here. We were big. We were big fans of him in the draft. We wanted the Thunder to draft him.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did.

[Alex]

I feel like it's been justified. I'm excited.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, I feel good about that one going forward. I've been made fun of a lot for that take and I feel pretty good about it today.

[Alex]

Number one, Deontay George had 39 and 37 points in back to back games. I wrote this, actually wrote this before last night. He had another 30 point game.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex]

So that would actually be his 13th 30 point game of his career. Okay, so he's had 13 games where he scored scored 30 points or more.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Alex]

That ties him for 15th all time for most 30 point games by a Jazz player. We're going to name the 14 players ahead of him. So this is throughout Jazz franchise history, who has had more 30 point games than Keonte George? There's 14 names how this works. Andrew will give me a name, then Sarah will give me a name and we'll go back and forth until one of you stumbles. So Andrew, who would you like to start with?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Carl Malone.

[Alex]

Carl Malone. Great guess. Andrew. He is number one on this list.

[Andrew Schlecht]

It was a guess. Yes.

[Alex]

All right, Sarah.

[Sarah Todd]

Donovan Mitchell.

[Alex]

Donovan Mitchell. Number four on the list.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, wow.

[Alex]

Andrew.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Gordo.

[Alex]

Gordo. Gordon Hayward. Yes, he is on the list. I can't do the. I can't count, but around 10. Around 10. Ish. All right, Sarah.

[Sarah Todd]

Darren Williams.

[Alex]

Darren Williams. He is on the list. Around eight. He is number eight on the list. Andrew.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Adrian Dantley.

[Alex]

Adrian Dantley. Number two on the list. Back to Sarah.

[Sarah Todd]

Rudy Gobert.

[Alex]

Rudy Gobert. That is incorrect. Rudy Gobert does not make the list. I was hoping someone would say John Stockton because he's not on this list. He will not.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I felt so nervous about that one because he never. Did he even ever average like 20 points a game? Like, I don't feel like he did.

[Alex]

Yeah, I don't know. But he. And he's like right below the list. He had like 11 or something. The other names. Pistol Pete. Because of course this goes back to the New Orleans days. Daryl Griffith. Markkinen. Carlos Boozer.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Truck Robinson. Dang Jordan Clarkson. Bojan Bogdanovich. Al Jefferson. And John Drew.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex]

Drew. Okay, Sarah, the board is yours.

[Sarah Todd]

Oh, boy. Two.

[Alex]

Two. Who has the most double doubles for the Jazz this season?

[Sarah Todd]

Yusuf Nurkic.

[Alex]

That is correct.

[Andrew Schlecht]

For two points.

[Alex]

We have a tie game.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Three.

[Alex]

Three. Andrew, board is yours.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I will go number four.

[Alex]

Question number four. In terms of points per play, Utah is ranked highest in which of the following categories on cleaning the glass. Half court offense, transition offense, half court defense, transition defense.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, my. Half court offense, transition offense, half court defense defense. Transition defense. This is really hard. I don't know. Transition offense. I have no idea.

[Alex]

That is incorrect.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Andrew.

[Alex]

Sarah, you have a chance to steal one point.

[Sarah Todd]

Half court offense.

[Alex]

It is half court offense for one point. But get this. It changed overnight. I had to go back and look after the Lakers game because it yesterday it was transition defense, which I thought was crazy.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, interesting.

[Sarah Todd]

That is crazy.

[Alex]

But I guess they scored a lot of points against the Lakers and so it helped them out. Okay, Sarah, it's your turn. Right?

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Sarah Todd]

Seven.

[Alex]

Question number seven. Larry Markkanen had a game with eight three pointers this season. That's the second time he's done that as a member of the Jazz. Who holds the franchise record for most games with eight plus three pointers? He did it four times.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex]

Who is that player?

[Sarah Todd]

Most games with eight or more.

[Alex]

Yeah. Made eight plus three pointers made in a game. This player did it four times.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow. Huh?

[Sarah Todd]

I'm gonna go with Donovan.

[Alex]

It's a good guess, but it is incorrect. Andrew, you have a chance to steal.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I feel like this is either going to be right or really Dumb.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Joe Ingles.

[Alex]

Joe Ingles. Oh, unfortunately, it's really dumb. Andrew, that is incorrect. Correct answer was Boyan.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, man.

[Alex]

All right, Andrew, you're down by one. I thought it was questions. Era.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Dang it. Five.

[Alex]

Question number five. Yusuf Nurkic holds a franchise record for the Phoenix Suns for most rebounds in a game. How many rebounds did he have? Now you get to choose who answers first. Oh, my God. You can make Sarah answer, and then you go higher or lower. Or you can set the line and Sarah will go higher, Lower.

[Andrew Schlecht]

If.

[Alex]

If the guesser gets it exactly correct, they do get a bonus point. So think about that as well.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, boy. I'll say. I think I kind of remember him doing this because I think it was against okc, if I'm not wrong, because I think he had like 30 something rebounds against the Thunder once. I'll say 30. I'll say 30.

[Alex]

Okay, Sarah, would you like to go higher or lower? This is a Yusuf Nurkic game for the Suns and set the franchise record for most rebounds.

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah, I actually know this answer, so I'm gonna go higher because it is 31.

[Alex]

And it is 31.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, shoot. I can't believe I missed it. Dang it.

[Sarah Todd]

It was against okc.

[Alex]

Yeah, it was.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh.

[Alex]

Oh, Andrew, you were so close. Once again, that is painful.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Dang it.

[Alex]

Six. All right, Sarah, you are up five to three. One push remaining.

[Sarah Todd]

God, my heart is beating so fast. I'm like, so competitive that this is a big moment for me.

[Alex]

You could close out the week right here. Okay, the question is, Kevin Love had a 20 point game against Memphis this week at age 37.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, he did.

[Alex]

Who was the last jazz player age 37 or older to have a 20 point game?

[Sarah Todd]

Carl Malone.

[Alex]

That is incorrect. Andrew, you have a chance to steal.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Oh, my gosh. Al.

[Sarah Todd]

37.

[Alex]

37 years old.

[Andrew Schlecht]

37 is. That's old. That's old. And a lot of these older, like the older jazz men I'm thinking of didn't play that long. Um, golly, if we're going for longevity, I mean, John Stockton, even though he didn't score very much, I guess John Stockton.

[Alex]

That is also incorrect. The correct answer was Kyle Korver. Kyle.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I would not have gotten there. Dang it.

[Alex]

Final question. Now, Andrew, this is your question, so you'll get first dibs on it. You're currently down 5 to 3, so. Oh, my gosh. If you get it right, it will send the game into overtime. I will have to come up with.

[Andrew Schlecht]

A totally prepared for. You'll be Totally prepared for it. Don't worry.

[Alex]

Okay, so going back to the question I screwed up on, Larry Markinen made six three pointers in a game against the Suns this season. That is the who. Who cares? He's done it a lot of times. We're gonna name. We're gonna name all the Jazz players throughout their history that have had at least three games hitting six plus three pointers. Okay? There's 13 of them. Thirteen players in Jazz history who have had three games with six plus three pointers. At least. So, Andrew, you're going to give me a name, and Sarah will give me a name, and we'll go back and forth to one of you stumbles. Obviously, I already said market, so we're already down to 12.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, Andrew, how about Bojan Bogdanovich?

[Alex]

What a good guess. He is number two on the list. He did that 20 times as a member of the Jazz.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Let's go.

[Alex]

Okay, Sarah.

[Sarah Todd]

Donovan Mitchell.

[Alex]

Donovan, Mitchell. Another good guess. Number one on the list. Did it 21 times.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay, Andrew, what about Jingling Joe?

[Alex]

Jingling Joe Ingles. He is number four on the list. Did it 15 times. All right, there you go, Sarah.

[Sarah Todd]

Kyle Korver.

[Alex]

Kyle Korver. I heard. I heard he did it when he was 37. Oh, my gosh, Sarah. He only did it twice. No. That means yes.

[Sarah Todd]

Yes.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Let's go.

[Alex]

Yes. Okay, so the game is tied 5 to 5. Alex is to come up with another question on the door.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I almost broke my mic stand again.

[Alex]

Al, we are going to name the top 10 in Utah. Jess. Franchise history. Four total blocks. Okay, the top 10. Okay, so there's some easy names here and some hard names.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah.

[Alex]

So, Sarah, this time you're gonna start us off and we'll go back and forth until one of you stumbles.

[Sarah Todd]

Mark Eaton.

[Alex]

Mark eaton. Number one. 3,064 bucks.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Go bear.

[Alex]

Pretty go bear. Number three on the list.

[Sarah Todd]

Oh, this top ten.

[Alex]

Top ten all time.

[Sarah Todd]

Car malone.

[Alex]

Car malone. Number five on the list.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Ak 47.

[Alex]

Andre kirilenko. Number two all time. Utah Jazz franchise history. Back to Sarah.

[Sarah Todd]

Thorough Bailey.

[Alex]

Thorough Bailey. Yes. He was number six on the list. Andrew, had you heard that name before?

[Andrew Schlecht]

I have heard the name, yes.

[Alex]

Okay. Okay.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That was condescending. I will go. What about Greg Ostertag?

[Alex]

Oh, my gosh. Greg Ostertag. Number four. You all have already named the top six. Perfectly. There are four names remaining.

[Andrew Schlecht]

This is horrible.

[Alex]

I've really put Sarah through a lot in her first appearance on Andrew versus the Beat.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, you have have Dang.

[Alex]

Four names.

[Survey Host]

Remain.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I think I have two names left in my brain, and then I might be done.

[Sarah Todd]

Paul Millsap.

[Alex]

Paul Millsap. Number eight on the list.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That was one of my names down to this one. If he's not on the list, then I. Then I'm dead. Derek Favors.

[Alex]

Derek Favors is on the list at number seven, which leaves two names remaining.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yes.

[Alex]

And, Sarah, I'll just say good luck.

[Sarah Todd]

I don't want to do it.

[Alex]

Good luck.

[Sarah Todd]

So what happens if. I want to know the game implications right now?

[Alex]

The game implications are if you cannot name one of these two names who are. Who are ranked nine and ten all time for blocks for the Jazz, the game will be over, and Andrew will have won six to five. However, if you can pull one of these names out, the game would continue, and Andrew would be forced to name a name.

[Sarah Todd]

Okay, it's going to be somebody from the 70s. So.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I'm. I'm way out. Then.

[Sarah Todd]

It has to be because we've gone. We've gone past, like, Derek Favors and Paul Millsap at this point. So it's probably not even someone that played on the Jazz that long. Yeah, let's. This is definitely wrong. But in just to say a name and to not. To not say nothing, I'll say Chuck Robinson.

[Alex]

Truck Robinson, who I think was a.

[Sarah Todd]

Guard, by the way.

[Alex]

That is incorrect. Which means Andrew does. Now listen to this, because I was like, I wonder how far Walker Kessler is. He. He is only. He is less than 20 bucks away.

[Andrew Schlecht]

I was wondering.

[Sarah Todd]

Oh, from making. Top.

[Alex]

From making.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, that's wild.

[Alex]

But unfortunately, the last two names, in retrospect, unfair question. Ben Poet, AKA Gentle Ben.

[Sarah Todd]

Gentleman, is on the block list. Great.

[Alex]

You don't know about Gentle Ben. He. Let's see, he only played four seasons in Utah. And then number 10, Rich Rylan. Kelly. Rich Kelly. Now, he did play on the Jazz for a while when they were in New Orleans, and then he eventually did play in Utah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow.

[Alex]

How tall was. Oh, he was a seven footer. Never heard of him for today.

[Sarah Todd]

I've never heard either of these names in my life.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a tough one. I didn't look all the way down the list. I was like, oh, there's some names I know. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for playing Andrew versus the Beat. What a first game.

[Sarah Todd]

I feel like that's stolen valor. I. I don't agree with the term.

[Alex]

You'll be submitting a. You'll be submitting something to the league, you know, letting them know, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Who's the pool reporter here, Sarah, thanks so much for coming on. Go check out Sarah's work at the Desert News. We appreciate you coming on the show.

[Sarah Todd]

Yeah, no problem, guys. Anytime.

[Alex]

All right, Andrew, that was jazz week and it's time to spin the Wheel of Fandom once again. And this is a big week because we're going to be off next couple of weeks for the holidays. So whoever we get, we're going to be watching a lot of them.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Double dose.

[Alex]

I'd love to get a team that's playing on Christmas, but let's see who we get next. Wheel of Phantom team will be. The San Antonio Spurs.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Wow, that is a spicy spin right there. Wheel of Fandom.

[Alex]

That is really spicy. I mean, we got two games against the Thunder. Yeah, that's one of our best spins ever.

[Andrew Schlecht]

That is our. Yeah, that is one of our best spins ever. Yeah. Christmas Day. I'll be there in person to watch.

[Alex]

Oh my gosh.

[Andrew Schlecht]

My. The Wheel of Fandom team. Unbelievable.

[Alex]

Jared Weiss.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Yeah, Jared now. Yeah, we'll get Jared on here. God, this is. This is incredible. Incredible. They're fascinating team too. It's a great team. That's a great spin. Thank you, Wheel of Fandom. Also, I'll say thank you to anybody. That leaves us a five star review on Apple Podcasts. You got a couple weeks to do it. All right, leave us a five star review and we'll read it on the podcast. Would really appreciate that. I hope you guys have a merry Christmas. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. Enjoy the basketball. Enjoy the Christmas day basketball. There's no better day to watch basketball on Christmas day. It's just the very best. Enjoy it and we'll talk to you guys again in a couple weeks.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Starting a podcast or business can feel overwhelming. Schedules, logos and endless decisions. But the right tool can change everything for millions. That tool is Shopify. Shopify powers 10% of all US E. Commerce from Mattel to new brands just launching. With templates for beautiful stores, AI tools for content and built in marketing, Shopify helps you sell smarter. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into. With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com TheAthletic Go to shopify.com TheAthLetic shopify.com TheAthLETic Imagine the impact when everyone gets the right tool for the job. That's odoo. Every app is designed to be easy to use so employees spend less time learning the software and more time doing their jobs. Experience true speed Reduce data entry with smart AI and a fast UI. Check out odoo@o d o o.com that's.

[Survey Host]

O d o o.com hey podcast listener, we'd like to hear what you think about podcasts, including this one, and offer you a chance at a $100Amazon gift card. Just go to podcastsurvey. Co. We're Signal Hill Insights and you might have seen our podcast research in the New York Times or Washington post. Go to podcastsurvey.co to take our 5 minute survey and as our thank you, when you're done, you'll have the chance to win a $100Amazon gift card. That's podcastsurvey co.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

The other night I was hosting a little holiday get together and honestly, Omaha Steaks saved me. I pulled out these USDA certified tender steaks. I'd been gifted, perfectly aged and hand cut, and everyone thought I'd suddenly become a pro chef. The convenience and the quality are unreal. And now I'm gifting Omaha Steaks myself because you know exactly what you're giving premium proteins, elegant sides and decadent desserts. Save big on gourmet gifts and more holiday favorites with omaha Steaks. Visit OmahaSteaks.com and for an extra $35 off, use code HOLIDAY at checkout terms apply. See site for details. That's omahasteaks.com promo code holiday.