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- [00:00]
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- [02:44]
Host
Good morning and welcome to the athletic NBA Daily. Coming up, we've got Isaac Gutierrez coming on from the Deep3 podcast, we're going to talk about Devin Booker hitting a game winner and the Suns winning four in a row. We've got Hunter Patterson coming on to talk about the Pistons. Let's break it down. Good morning, Isaac. How you doing? Good morning. Everybody else watching a. Another crazy night in the NBA. I know it's kind of the. The dog days, if you will, but it's March. It's March basketball. And I thought it'd be a fun way to talk about this night by doing a segment called Is it March or Not? Basically. Is it real or not? Do we believe in what's happening on the court right now for some of these teams? Isaac? I want to start with the Suns. All right, Suns win four in a row. They just beat the Milwaukee Bucks. No Damian Lillard for Milwaukee in this one, but it was the KD show. He dropped 38 points. He was awesome throughout this game. Another great game for Kevin Durant. And then Devin Booker hits the game winner with about like 1.5 seconds left to seal the deal here. So Suns win four in a row. Is that real or is it just March basketball?
- [04:03]
Isaac Gutierrez
Well, I mean, four wins are on the schedule. They are in the column. It's real to that extent.
- [04:08]
Host
Yeah.
- [04:10]
Isaac Gutierrez
I'm always hesitant with March basketball for all the reasons you mentioned. You know, the fakest time in the NBA calendar, half the league, if you watch the schedule, every night, is almost unwatchable with the mad tanking. We had a hilarious game today with Pelicans vs 76ers, which I won't even tell you who's starting those lineups. Go take a look for yourself. That's half the games these days. So I'm always hesitant. I do think it's real. I'll say that. Okay, there's some quality wins. You know, they beat the Cavs, they beat the Bucs. Obviously not having Damon Lillard, you know, relying on Kevin Porter Jr. Minutes, which is obviously a different beast than going against Damon Lillard.
- [04:41]
Host
Yeah.
- [04:42]
Isaac Gutierrez
But I do think it's real. I think we're seeing them look pretty good with Devin Booker taking on a bigger playmaking role. I think I saw he's averaging almost 10 assists over his last six games. That feels real to me. Huge night from Kevin Durant. No Bradley Beal in the lineup, which to each their own opinion.
- [04:59]
Host
I mean, the on off numbers shows that they are actually actively better with Bradley Beal off the floor. And it's worth noting that ryan Dunn played 30 minutes tonight. He was electric in the Second half had that huge dunk on Yanis, dunked on Giannis, and he had a huge, like, baseline cut, too, off of, like, a short role play where they finished it. And like, like, that was in the clutch moments of the game, too. So overall, like, he's playing more minutes. Oso Iguidaro playing more minutes. They're rookies who are helping them win games to start the year. Also getting more run. So I. I agree with you. I do think it's real. And now, you know, especially with this 1010 seed race in the Western Conference becoming really close because the Kings lost three in a row. They lost against the Celtics tonight. Big news out of that one is that Jason Tatum left with a ankle injury. Demonta Sabonis kind of went under him, and then he landed on. On Sabonis's leg. Hopefully Tatum is all right. Obviously, I think the Celtics will be okay with Tatum missing some time here, but obviously we're headed towards the playoffs, so just hope it's not that serious of an injury. Okay. Speaking of injuries, Anthony Davis returned. First game back since, like, March 3rd. First game back since his first game with the Mavericks. And he finished the game. First full game. Yes.
- [06:24]
Isaac Gutierrez
Put one on the board, hang the banner. We got a complete game. Listen, all you can ask for is positive momentum. And this is by definition, one game after zero is nothing but positive momentum. You got to feel happy about it.
- [06:36]
Host
So it's real. So, look, I mean, it was against the Brooklyn Nets. It was played against the Brooklyn Nets. They AD only played in 26 minutes, but he was a plus 12 in those minutes. Did his thing. I thought, you know, the first. The start of the game where the Mavericks basically set the tone, he was creating all of their buckets through his gravity. The post play, you know, kind of getting to the bucket whenever he wants to the rim, all that type of stuff was how Anthony Davis is going to be impactful for this team. And again, you look at the race for 10th in the west with the Kings losing three in a row. Now it's between the Suns and the Mavs. And so I guess the question I have for you, is it real wise is can the. Can the Mavs make some noise here now that AD is back definitely in.
- [07:21]
Isaac Gutierrez
In so far that they can make the 10 seed, that they can get that spot, you know.
- [07:24]
Hunter Patterson
All right. Yeah.
- [07:25]
Host
No, Kyrie kind of dampens the situation.
- [07:27]
Isaac Gutierrez
Yeah, I don't think they can make noise. Like, if they make their way out of the play in, can they challenge the 2C challenge to one seed, right. I'm not about to go that far, but they can get that 10 seed. I think the bigger question isn't is it real? It's do they want it to be real? It feels like there's some, a little miscommunication or just difference of opinions in priorities right now. You know, it was reported that they, the team kind of wanted to shut him down because they understand the writing on the wall that you might enter another Derek Livey situation where you can stealth tank at the end, get another high pick. Anthony Davis sees the backlash. Luka Donches trade sees the need for the team and the fan base to have something positive. Seems like he's taking upon himself to say I'm going to get on that court, I'm going to try and give him something. So maybe they'll get that 10 spot. I don't know if everybody in the organization wants it, but Anthony Davis does and that might all be that only thing that matters.
- [08:13]
Host
Yeah, you know what, man? I actually kind of like that though. I like the fact that he's, he's mad about this whole conversation around the Luca trade. And you know, you look, you're, you're a Lakers guy. So you know the kind of conversation around AD for years, it's the injuries, it's the health, it's can he get on the court. And so I think this is bigger than just the Luka trade for him. I think it's being able to get back on the court and prove to people that he can kind of be a healthy player for the Mavericks moving forward. Obviously he's a huge part of what they got to do even now, next season. So we'll see a double edged sword.
- [08:44]
Isaac Gutierrez
I'm sure if you're a Mavs fan where it's like part of you is happy that your new star player that Nico Harrison just completely tied his reputation, his career to. You're happy to see him set the tone, try to build some culture, do what he can. But also you're like, I'd like the 9th pick overall if I can get.
- [08:58]
Host
Lucky with top situation.
- [08:59]
Hunter Patterson
Yeah.
- [09:00]
Host
Hey, who knows, man? Cooper flag. There might be a possibility out there. Yeah, 80 is back. We'll see what happens with the 10th seed. That is I think one of the more interesting races heading into the next couple weeks of the playoffs and whatnot. Okay, want talk about the Los Angeles Lakers. Obviously you watch the Lakers very, very, very closely. They've lost two in a row now. One to the Bulls this weekend and now to the Orlando Magic, Paulo and Franz were awesome in this one. Put up 60 combined. I thought they were electric. They kind of took advantage of the switch heavy Lakers defense and just said, hey, we're going to feast on all of these mismatches. But the Magic also shot the lights out 37% tonight. They've been shooting 36% on threes in March and it's crazy because Orlando is having one of the worst shooting seasons of all time. 31% from three on the season. They're dead last in three point rate. Do you buy the streaky shooting? Is that March basketball or is that not March basketball?
- [10:04]
Isaac Gutierrez
Yes.
- [10:05]
Host
So yeah, that is, that is March.
- [10:07]
Isaac Gutierrez
Yeah. But Also, I mean 31 is like so like unbelievably bad that you're bound to have some positive regression. Like that's almost unfathomable to shoot that 40 for a year. So you know, we're talking about 36. We're not talking about they shot 40 for a month. So yeah, the bar is below the ground. It is 10ft deep. So the fact that you can shoot league average, maybe that makes sense. That feels like some variation you could expect. Am I buying that? Like if they make the playoffs you should feel good about their chances because now they've shown their shooting is back on track, they can be the threat that we thought they could be. Everything's all good around the two stars clicking. No, I think you're still going to have the same issues, but it tracks that they can have a higher floor than 31% and you mentioned they had that big night against the Lakers switching defense. I think it just goes to show that this Lakers defense and this method that they found to have a top tier defense despite having very little defensive talent is incredibly reliant on trying extremely, extremely hard, hard to maintain that level of effort when you have a 30, a 40 year old LeBron James coming back from injury, Rui coming back from injury saying his knees probably not going to be 100% for the rest of the season. You need every single person on the court to be going 1000% every time. Otherwise you're going to have no backline defensive help. You're going to have palate Vancero feasting at the rim like he did tonight. I'm kind of worried that the rustiness is going to. We need, I guess they need time to shake the rushing us off for the playoffs, but it's really going to test their wherewithal as a defense because you're going to make up for a.
- [11:28]
Host
Lot of effort to Your point? I think there is a bit of a fatal flaw here in that switch heavy defense because ultimately you're going to give up a ton of mismatches. And I think we saw two teams in Chicago and Orlando who like to run. Orlando ran a lot tonight and Chicago obviously has one of the fastest paces in the league. I think that's the recipe to beat this Lakers team is not face them set and also just run outrun them. Because you know LeBron and Luka are trying to play a more slow and methodical place at pace at times. Obviously LeBron has that transition outlet type basketball that he loves to play, but you gotta be 100 physically to be able to do that. And so that to your point, it's about getting to the point where you can do that consistently. Want to talk about the Lakers offense? Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
- [12:14]
Isaac Gutierrez
Also you mentioned the big shooting night, shooting 37, three on 40 attempts for the magic. Part of the gimmick of the Lakers is we're going to allow you to shoot open threes, right? We're going to hope it's your weak shooters. I can't make it. We're doing the Mike Budenholzer thing where we're allowing non stop corner threes. Sometimes it's going to be nights where they make them and this is what happens. So you combine the lack of effort with that. Like it's not a coincidence that both these last two games the team shot the lights out when they're not famously like that's what you expected. So that, that'll be a common thing that you see from a Lakers defense and off nights, right?
- [12:44]
Host
Yeah, that's, that's part of how they want to play. Look, I want to ask you about something that we, we kind of talked about off air when we were texting about this game. The Lakers offense in general because it feels like they're being led by LeBron and Rui. Well, not Rui tonight, but Austin Reaves and obviously Luka Doncic, that three headed monster they balled out today, for the most part they did their thing, but the rest of the team was lacking. They weren't able to finish their shots, et cetera, et cetera. Just the shot making wasn't there for the Lakers overall tonight. Is that a concern for you? Is that, you know, if we're going back to the march basketball thing, is that just a march basketball thing or is this really an issue for the Lakers moving forward?
- [13:25]
Isaac Gutierrez
No, it's really an issue. I think since the Lakers traded for Luka Doncic, People have had this idea in their mind of what this team would be. Right. Luca, LeBron, Reeves, wow. Offensively, you have these genius ball handlers. They can all play on ball. I'll play off ball. It will be electric. No defensive talent all through. Those players I mentioned that lead the ship. Bad defenders, yada, yada, yada. In the games that they've won in the stretch before LeBron got hurt especially, they were number one in defensive rating. Obviously, inversely, people expected. And over the last 15 games, they're 19th in offensive rating. They haven't really had a single portion of that run where they're truly an elite offense like people assume they have been. I think there's a big difference in what people think they're watching versus what's actually happening. They just don't have any offensive threats from their big man position. You know, shout out Trey Jameson, he gave us some good minutes throughout that time. Not an offensive threat. Shout out Jared Vanderbilt, done it a lot for their defensive effort. Negative offensive threat, Christian Coloco, same thing. They just don't have any type of lob threat, any type of dunker, spot threat. As good as Jackson Hayes has been playing, he's not a super big threat there to do anything other than catch open dunks. It's really hard to have a good offense without those release valves. No matter how good your big ball handlers are. Luka doesn't look quite the same. A big part of it is he has no good screen setters. He's really having to do a lot more isolation than he likes to. If they're, if you're looking for a fatal flaw, I think that's it. More than the defense.
- [14:46]
Host
Yeah. No, fair enough. And look, this is, this is going to be really interesting over the next couple of weeks for the Lakers because this is sort of the trial run with LeBron and Luka and everybody to see how they can play and compete. And they're in the middle of a, of a playoff race for that second seed in the west, which makes this all the more important. Want to talk? I'll just mention this very quickly, but the Bulls beat the Nuggets without Nicola Jokic. And we talked about the Bulls yesterday on the podcast, talking about how fun they are. And look, they've won eight of their last 10 games. Kobe White has had three straight games of 35 plus points. Josh Giddy over the last month is averaging basically like 21, 9 and 7, and he's shooting nearly 49% from 3 since February 1st. Crazy to say about Josh Giddy and all the conversation about him as a lackluster shooter, he's clearly shooting the lights out recently. I'm not going to deny that some of this is March basketball. There's no question that some of this is March basketball.
- [15:45]
Isaac Gutierrez
Like a 31% three point shooter goes to 42. That's the definition of March basketball.
- [15:49]
Host
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
- [15:50]
Isaac Gutierrez
I'm also not going to deny that the Bulls are fun. Like they're legitimately playing good basketball. I think Modest Bou Zealous is one of the most exciting young players in the league since he started becoming a big heavy part of the rotation. I think you're seeing him grow into his body more. His handle's looking really good. He's already a really good driver and knows how to use his length to make plays there. I don't know if his efficiency is quite as like showing someone that's a good driver, but for a rookie, you see the signs. Obviously Kobe White's doing everything you said. Josh Giddey's slashing well, shooting, shooting better he's ever shot in his life ever, probably at any level of basketball. So like they clearly have good momentum at the right time. Even if it is March basketball and it's like fake. You play the playing tournament at the end of March.
- [16:30]
Host
So yeah, you gotta be playing your best basketball at the latest. No 100%. And look, maybe, maybe this, in the whole craziness of trying to find a direction, maybe somehow they've stumbled upon fun basketball and like that could be for.
- [16:45]
Isaac Gutierrez
March, at least for March.
- [16:45]
Host
That could be good enough for March basketball. Okay, Isaac, appreciate you as always. Thank you very much for coming on the show. Coming up we got Hunter Patterson talking about the Pistons, the playoff Pistons. The Detroit Pistons have been my guilty ple. I can't even say guilty pleasure here at this point. They've been one of the feel good, probably the most feel good story in the NBA this season. Going from the season that they had last year to now being in the thick of it in the playoff race trying to get to that four seed in the Eastern Conference. Still a lot to be determined. But I am joined by the guy who covers the Detroit Pistons for us here at the Athletic, Hunter Patterson. Hunter, man, it's been awesome to watch this Pistons team all year and I've been hyping them up to. To Dave and Xena pretty much every single time I have the opportunity to because they're so much fun and you know, Cade has clearly turned the corner. They're locked into a playoff spot. You know, I predicted to start the year that they would be in the play in range. The fact that they are basically locked into somewhere in the top six is a testament to how quickly they've turned things around. But it at this point, with a couple weeks left into the postseason seems like they're either going to face the Knicks, Pacers or Bucks. Of those teams, who do you think they want to face?
- [18:20]
Hunter Patterson
I think they would say they, they're up to face anyone. I think their kind of approach to the game and the kind of tenacity that they bring on a nightly basis that can usually lead into not usually, but has led into scuffles throughout the season. Yeah, I think that's kind of the approach that they bring and they'll. They would tell you doesn't really matter. But based on the success that they've had against the Knicks this season, I think that they would be better suited to play them. And, and if they honestly answered the question it probably would be that. So I think Cade JB mentioned. JB has kind of throughout the season given a lot of good insight into who Cade is as a person and leader. And one of the things he's talked about is how Cade has a knack for performing his best on the biggest stages and what better stage than New York during the playoffs? Msg. And he's, he's played well there throughout the season as well. So I think as a whole the team is, is confident against them and they, they've won the most against them out of the the three teams.
- [19:32]
Host
Yeah, that would be exciting, man. Cade getting the platform of msg. Obviously the, the Pistons having their nationally televised game a couple weeks ago. They have another one against ok. And I think that platform is awesome for him to show off his game. Obviously he's improved so much as a pull up shooter. As a guy who can create off the bounce, it feels like no one can really speed him up offensively and that's one of the gifts that he has. He kind of just goes at his own pace. How do you think that translates into a playoff setting when you know the defense is basically geared up towards you. They're geared up towards stopping Cade and forcing the ball out of his hands. How do you think his game looks in a postseason setting?
- [20:13]
Hunter Patterson
I think he's, he's built for, for a postseason kind of matchup just based on the fact that he's not really reliant on getting calls. He's not getting too many shots at the line. He, the Other he was out last night. He was a late scratch with calves or miss. But a couple games ago on this last road trip we were on, he didn't get to the free throw line. And I believe he had above 20. And that is something that he's kind of, I think at this point, in a frustrated, frustrated way, had to get used to. So I think his game will be fine during the playoffs. But I think Dennis Schroeder is a huge. He'll be a huge help for K because throughout the season he's been great. Oh, without a doubt. Yeah, he's been huge running the second unit and then in. In minutes when he and K get to share the backcourt. But I wrote throughout the season before they got Dennis about how the Pistons really struggled in minutes without Cade and they needed a secondary ball handler and kind of when the offense slows down and they're not in transition the way they usually are, which is obviously more. More geared toward the playoffs, they need someone to be able to create for themselves and others outside of Cade without ivy him going down on January 1st and now. So. But yeah, I think Dennis will be a huge help to Cade. But to answer your question, I think Cade's game is suited for the playoffs and he's getting more reps, being blitzed, coming around around screens and just facing double teams and being able to like skip the ball across the floor. So I think he's getting good reps now as well.
- [21:58]
Host
Yeah, I mean, like, ultimately it'll come down to the supporting cast too. Right. And this supporting cast has been electric all year. You think of Malik Beasley who's having a crazy shooting season. I think Jalen Duran has been great in 2025. They put the ball in his hands more. He's kind of operating as like a dribble handoff up for them a little bit more often. Who is that X factor outside of cage for this team in the playoffs if they want to win a first round series?
- [22:26]
Hunter Patterson
I would say Darren. He's someone who in. In 2025, he's been a pretty much a double double machine at this point. He's not really gonna ever get too close to 20 points. He's more in the 12 to 15ish range, but he's usually good for about 10 to 12 rebounds.
- [22:47]
Host
Yeah, he knows what he's good at at this point.
- [22:48]
Hunter Patterson
Right?
- [22:49]
Host
Exactly.
- [22:49]
Hunter Patterson
Yeah, he's gonna usually average around like 70% from the field because it's usually dunks and finishing lobs and things. But he's been playing really inspired on defense and on the offensive class as well. So I think those are two things that can elevate his play and then ultimately elevate the team as well, giving them more opportunities. And then Ron Holland is another person we saw last night tying his career high. Yeah. Someone who consistently seems to come into the game and kind of change just the way the Pistons are playing if they're lacking any type of energy. So initially, I would say Duran needs to be the. The main consistent X factor outside of Cade. But there are guys Maliki mentioned he can get on a heater and hit seven threes in the game. Five to seven threes. And Ron as well. So I think they have multiple people who could potentially have a breakout moment. Our performance.
- [23:45]
Isaac Gutierrez
Yeah.
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Host
No.
- [23:46]
Isaac Gutierrez
Yeah.
- [23:46]
Host
And look, I think. I think the. The biggest question for me is, like, the defense, it's been second in the league since January 1st, and if you can find ways to win on the defensive end like they've been doing. Schroeder, I think, is a huge part of that because he's a good point of attack defender guy who can be scrappy at guarding guys and chasing guys around screens, but Duran kind of completes that package, especially as a rim protector on the paint. I think defensively is where this team can really shine in the postseason. And hanging their hat on the defensive end, I'm assuming is something J.B. bickerstaff is going to want to emphasize heading into the postseason as well, Right, Definitely.
- [24:23]
Hunter Patterson
And I think another person who he'll probably have at least one signature block throughout one of the postseason series is, I would say, Isaiah Stewart. He's kind of one of the anchors defensively. Just throughout the game, he's not one. One of the starters, but once he comes in, similar to Ron Holland a bit, he. He can have moments and plays that kind of shift the momentum in games, whether it's a block that leads to a dunk or a play in transition, a lot, whatever the case may be. But there's also been times when the team has won, and then you. You can tell JB wasn't happy with how they've won. And usually he's upset with the defensive performance. And even if it's just one quarter where they've given up 30 points or more, they really try to hone in on winning, winning quarters and just not allowing teams to outscore them one, but then also just have quarters where they get too comfortable and kind of set the tone for the rest of the game.
- [25:29]
Host
Yeah, that's. That's something I'M really interested in. And you mentioned like the defensive effort. You look at this team and you know, obviously missing Jaden Ivey is a big part of this and he's, he's a huge part of this puzzle moving forward for the Pistons. But I think regardless of the outcome of this season, it's been a success already. This turnaround that they've had, the year that they've had, the way that they've developed this identity for themselves as a defensive team, Cade turning into a guy who's probably going to make an all NBA team. All of those things are wins, right? You look at those and say that that's a clear thing that we can look forward to moving forward. What do they do in the summer? Because now it gets interesting. You've covered the Sacramento Kings. You've kind of seen that light the beam team. And one of those criticisms of the, of that team is they didn't do anything after their really successful season. They just stayed the same, you know, kind of believed in continuity. What do you think this Pistons team does this summer? Do they just worry and focus on internal development with Ron Holland or do they maybe go out and be a little bit aggressive?
- [26:33]
Hunter Patterson
I would lean more toward continuity with this team. Again, mainly because of injuries. I think if we had been able to see this team throughout the season with Jaden Ivey and you kind of get to see that young core establish more chemistry, then in that case I would have probably said maybe if you didn't like how it looked. I mean, and even then I probably would have leaned into the continuity. Honestly, they're so young. They need these reps. I think you need, in order to have playoff success, you need somewhere in there some playoff failure. And I think this is a good time for them to experience the playoffs in general with them being 23. Ron is 19. It's not even going to be 20 until I think early July. So I, I would, I would mainly address Malik Beasley. He would be the first priority. He was on a one year deal this year. So now you, you kind of figure out what you want to do with him in the off season. I believe the same goes for Tim Hardaway Jr. Who has stepped up in the absence of Ivy. So initial kind of contract situations, that shouldn't cost you too much. I would say they, they, Malik Beasley will be on a less team friendly deal, I would assume with the way he's played this season. So I, I would try to focus on those two. I, I'd be extremely interested in keeping Malik and then kind of just filling out the roster, I guess around Cade, I would not make any major moves. I wouldn't be looking to trade anyone. I wouldn't be looking to even sign.
- [28:13]
Host
So if Devin Booker, you know, Michigan native, wanted to, okay, yeah, that's where things, that's where things. That's where it's like, you know, those are the type of opportunities that might come up. Right. This is.
- [28:24]
Hunter Patterson
Right. Yeah.
- [28:25]
Host
The way the NBA works.
- [28:28]
Hunter Patterson
That'S. That's a tough one. Devin Booker is. He's one of those guys who is like there's certain guys who are so talented it would be hard to pass up on. But again, I know, I think trades in the way he's really calculated. Even if that were on the table, I assume he would, he would heavily consider just the youth and the continuity of this team. So yeah, keeping them together and not really bringing any, bringing anyone in who could stunt the growth of an Asar Thompson or Ron Holland maybe.
- [28:59]
Host
Right. Yeah. And look, there's a lot of ways to go about internally for this team. You know, you mentioned Asar and Ron. Those guys pop off and become all star level players. The trajectory, the ceiling of this team completely changes. But the Pistons are very, very fun this year regardless of the outcome. I can't wait to watch them in the playoffs. It's going to be awes. Go read. Hunter Patterson. As always, great work over at the Athletic covering the Pistons. Thank you to Hunter. Thank you to Isaac Gutierrez, who came on a little bit earlier. Appreciate you guys listening to the Athletic NBA Daily. See you guys next time. Peace out.
- [29:58]
Sponsor Voice
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- [30:24]
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- [31:16]
Isaac Gutierrez
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [31:24]
Host
Remember blowing into a video game cartridge.
- [31:27]
Isaac Gutierrez
Or taping songs off the radio?
- [31:29]
Host
How about Saturday morning cartoons?
- [31:31]
Hunter Patterson
Hey, AOL chat rooms.
- [31:33]
Isaac Gutierrez
Did we just age ourselves?
- [31:35]
Host
Yep. We're Mike Fenoya and Charles McBidden, two.
- [31:38]
Hunter Patterson
Comedians getting nostalgic and asking that nagging.
- [31:41]
Host
Question, are we old? Relive the laughs, the cringes and the nostalgia. Are we old?
- [31:47]
Isaac Gutierrez
Podcast right here on acast. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
- [32:05]
Hunter Patterson
Acast.com.