← The Athletic NBA Daily
The Athletic NBA Daily
Why the Knicks chose Mike Brown + Draft Day trade rumors with Sam Amick
00:43:36
Loading summary
Transcript119 lines
- [00:00]
Paige Desorbo
Hey, I'm Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad and I want to talk to you about Arm and Hammer Hardball cat litter. Because when it comes to fighting cat odor, they are the champs. Like what? Smell the litter box was my biggest fear when I got my kitty, Daphne. But since I started using arm and Hammer cat litter, I don't notice any cat smell. I always feel confident about anyone stopping by, whether it's my friends or my family or even people in my building. So for my fellow cat parents, be guest ready with Arm and Hammer Hardball cat litter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon.
- [00:32]
Discover Ad Host
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com credit card a better help ad.
- [00:57]
Sam Amick
Hold on one second.
- [01:01]
Paige Desorbo
I just need to.
- [01:07]
Sam Amick
What if you had a room where no one interrupts? No notifications, no expectations, just space to
- [01:14]
Paige Desorbo
talk with BetterHelp therapy happens in a space that's yours.
- [01:18]
Sam Amick
Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy.
- [01:27]
Dave DeFore
Foreign and welcome to the NBA Daily for June 18, 2026. I'm Dave DeFore here with Zena Keda and Sam Amick. Coming up, all of the fallout from the Knicks championship. We're going to talk a little Mike Brown, de' Aaron Fox and what Sam's hearing about Giannis Walker, Kessler and all the other rumors before the draft. Good morning, everybody. What is up guys? Good morning.
- [01:58]
Sam Amick
What's up, my friends? Good to see you.
- [02:00]
Dave DeFore
Sam Amick back on the pod. Been a minute. Ducked me for the entire NBA Finals, man.
- [02:07]
Sam Amick
I thought this was just a private bit. Dave, you're gonna go public with yourself?
- [02:11]
Dave DeFore
No, this is a public bit. We wanted Sam Amic on the pot. No, I'm not ducking Sam. Sam's a hard working guy. Sam was writing most of those nights.
- [02:19]
Sam Amick
I was.
- [02:20]
Dave DeFore
And I was, you know, in the arena running around trying to get people to come on the show. Sam, we got a chance to hang out and watch the World Cup. Have you guys watched any other World cup matches outside of that? That Team USA that we watched in San Antonio?
- [02:35]
Sam Amick
I hate to admit it, Dave, because I want to always contribute to the program, but the answer, you know, sadly, is is no. I'm Not a huge soccer guy. Although I did enjoy the heck out of watching Team USA and that debut and. And everybody going crazy. But tell me, what am I missing here?
- [02:52]
Dave DeFore
I mean, Messi had a hat.
- [02:53]
Sam Amick
I heard that. Yeah.
- [02:54]
Zena Keda
Which is crazy.
- [02:55]
Dave DeFore
Incredible. I mean, this guy just shows up
- [02:59]
Zena Keda
in the World Cup.
- [03:00]
Dave DeFore
38. I mean, to be at a time where, you know, like, you've got LeBron, who's arguably the GOAT at 41, still performing at a high level. Messi, I think, is the goat. He gets a hat trick in his first match. 38 years old. I don't know. Are we just at the point where these athletes are just not aging anymore?
- [03:22]
Zena Keda
It looks like Tom Brady just. I mean, I was literally imagining.
- [03:24]
Sam Amick
Sorry, Zen, I was gonna say, you know, Tom Brady just raised the bar, and all these other dudes are like, all right, this is what we're doing.
- [03:31]
Dave DeFore
Yeah. Well, guys, if you're. If you're listening, you may have noticed, look, we're talking a lot of World cup here, and the Athletics Podcast network has something for everybody. You can wake up with the Totally Football show from la. Dive deep into the biggest talking point of the day with the Athletic FC podcast and watch the T podcast fool around on their daily live stream in the afternoons. All of our shows are free to watch or listen wherever you listen to podcasts over on YouTube, we're having a great time around the World Cup. John Hollinger is covering the World Cup. Guys, it's all hands on deck.
- [04:06]
Sam Amick
What. What is John doing?
- [04:07]
Zena Keda
I don't think I realize this either.
- [04:08]
Dave DeFore
How about that he. I mean, he's going to matches and.
- [04:11]
Guest Contributor
Wow.
- [04:11]
Dave DeFore
You know, writing about it.
- [04:12]
Sam Amick
John, right after what a.
- [04:16]
Dave DeFore
That's right.
- [04:16]
Zena Keda
And also, isn't he, like, he's gonna be in the draft?
- [04:19]
Sam Amick
Like.
- [04:21]
Dave DeFore
Yeah, John. John is getting a lot of work done before the summer, let's just put it that way. Hey, speaking of getting a lot of work done before the summer, Sam, this is like a busy time of year for you. But before we go to the offseason, I want to just put a bow on what we just watched from the Knicks. They win the. The NBA Finals in five games. They had this incredible run over the playoffs, and Mike Brown is maybe not getting enough credit for this. I know that we have given him a lot of credit, and especially Sam, you know, you just wrote a story about him. But the evolution that his career has taken. You know, I think that the last time that he had a Finals team, he was not an NBA Finals level coach, and he became one over the course of the last decade. What. What do you think about the job Mike Brown did with the Knicks this year?
- [05:17]
Sam Amick
No, I mean, it was. It was. Listen, it couldn't have ended better, obviously, stating facts.
- [05:23]
Guest Contributor
Yeah.
- [05:24]
Sam Amick
But the part that is always going to stick with me and then I'm going to be impressed by, is that it did not begin that way. As you guys know, just a quick recap on the hiring process. You know, they shockingly fired Tom Thibodeau. I wrote a column at the time that was like, all right, clearly the only thing the Knicks knew that they wanted to do was to fire Tom Thibodeau. They didn't have a plan after that. They went out and they tried to get Jason Kidd. They tried to get Billy Donovan all the way down the line. I'm forgetting the other names. Excuse me. Five employed head coaches had, you know, permission denied by the Knicks before they got to Mike Brown. So I share that. To share that in terms of his personality. First of all, it requires a guy to have the type of ego to not get caught up in that, Right? And everybody got an ego. Mike's got an ego. But, you know, he had already been pretty accomplished by that point. And, you know, there's a world in which he kind of looks at that and says, all right, I'm not trying to be, you know, your last option here. But he just kind of went through the process, decided what he thought, takes on the job and starts attacking it. Now fast forward to mid January. The Knicks come through my neck of the woods in Sacramento. They have shoot around at my alma mater, actually, in Sacramento State. And I talked to Mike there. I talked to some of the players and the local media folks who are with the team every day, including Monica McNutt and our James Edwards. And I'm talking to this whole group going, oh, boy, this is not going very well. They had lost three games in a row at that point. It's around the time that James Dolan goes on the radio and says, this is finals or bust, and kind of says, this is title or bust. Applying even more pressure during that stretch, they lose nine out of 11 games. And you're wondering where this whole thing is going. You know, more specifically, Mike's relationship with Carl. Anthony Towns was tense at that time, and it was basketball stuff, but it was like, you know, you would hear stories about how Carl was saying things pretty openly in the locker room about his frustrations with Mike, like where everybody could hear it. And. And I talked to Mike about it back then, and you could just tell that, that he was taking kind of the, the patient long road approach and knew that he had to massage some of these dynamics. So then fast forward to what we just saw. And that, to me, is the most impressive part. Like to get it from where it was at that point in mid January to what they did with a legitimately historic playoff run. And then the. You know, I know everybody's happy when you win a title, but to see the affection between. I literally just watched the Jimmy Fallon episode where, you know, all the guys were on it, but it was Mike Brown with Jalen, with Katie yucking it up, having a good time, and to see what they accomplish is, you know, from. From Mike on down, really impressive.
- [08:26]
Dave DeFore
Mike's like the fun uncle, you know. Yeah, the who lets dogs out thing is perfect uncle vibes, right?
- [08:33]
Sam Amick
For sure, for sure. Cena Xena says, nope, I was not.
- [08:39]
Dave DeFore
They're gonna have the Baja men at the parade, right? Like, I mean, that's gonna happen.
- [08:42]
Zena Keda
I was like, that is a little outdated from a boy, Mike, but we love him. We love him. I. I think that there's something about this emotional intelligence aspect of coaches these days of being able to listen and being able to be humble and being able to delegate and trust the teams around you. And it feels like there's a hyper focus on that. Especially when you think about these, like, long term successful coaches, obviously. Steve Kerr, Greg Pop, Bill Jackson. Right. All these coaches that were kind of in, in alignment with their players in such a way that it bred success. How much as you were doing this article, as you were writing this article, and just as we are evaluating just how great Mike Brown was in this role, is this a balance of that emotional intelligence versus his also basketball X's and O's schemes lineup rotations? How do you balance what he did on both sides to be able to showcase. Yeah, he was the leader the Knicks at this moment. He knew what he should do from a lineups perspective, but he also knew how to listen to this group that had just gone to the Eastern Conference finals and lost their coach.
- [09:53]
Sam Amick
Right. And I mean, I'll start with that last part, Zena. Like, that's the part that to me is crazy and so challenging is that it's like, you know, you're getting to the party and everybody else has been having a good time for two hours and. And you just got there. He was the only new piece, you know what I mean? And they all. It goes even deeper than that. Tom Thibodeau's relationship with Jalen Brunson and with his dad, rick Brunson is 30 years long. You know what I mean? Like, this was an uncle to them. And so anybody following that type of coach with that kind of relationship is. That's going to be challenging. I'm going to read a quick quote. I know you guys have seen it from the story, but I really just thought that in terms of validating Mike, this was. After game five, they win the title. I don't really know Rick Brunson very well. Got to know him a little bit during this series, and I catch him on the side real quick as he's walking down the carpet and confetti's everywhere. And I just wanted to talk to him about Mike and learn about their relationship and whether or not they had ever known each other. So, first of all, he says he didn't know Mike at all. So, I mean, add that to the equation. Like, wow, the franchise centerpiece's father, who is. We all know, like, the agreement the Knicks have with him, like, he's going to be on the bench, you know, as long as Jalen is on the team, didn't know Mike Brown at all. And he says they. Mike called him, they talked. He gives him some advice, and he says, build a good relationship with Jalen and he'll run through a wall for you. That's what they both did this season. And the first thing that Mike did after talking to Rick was to drive down to Jalen's house in Jersey Shore and go to dinner. I talked to our beat writer, James Edwards, who told me that he ended up having multiple meetings, you know, between Jalen and Mike, and. And they would sit there and. And they didn't talk basketball. They talked about life. So you. You make that connection with Jalen first, and then you work your way out from there. The tactical stuff that you asked about Xena, like, if you fast forward to the playoffs, this is where, you know, I talked to some of the front office guys about how impressed they were they were with Mike. He changed the way they played offensively in three consecutive series and showed a level of versatility in that regard that they were very impressed with. He pulled the Jose Alvarado move in the Finals. That was a master stroke. As an aside, and this is a little bit of a provincial reference, but my friend and former colleague Aileen Voisin was a longtime, legendary NBA columnist who was no longer in the business. She was always a Mike Brown critic, and she's out of the business now, but I hear from her every once in a while. And it made me smile that after the Alvarado move, and sometimes her compliments are, you know, she. She's pretty. What's the word? You know, not real willing to give them with people that she's not really high on. And I get this text from Aileen that was just like, man, I got to give it to Mike. Like, what he did with Jose was just a game changer. And so, you know, you're making those kinds of moves that are the type of stuff we're going to look back on and think that, you know, they were serious changing. And the last thought is that it's not just Mike's personality, you know, the way he handles his ego, the collaborative nature of the culture that they had is his X factor, his secret sauce. That's how he got this done. Because he would constantly have an open door policy with his players. I actually, admittedly, as much as I tried to learn about how he got the job done, the one thing I would like to learn more about is like, how many times did he and Towns meet? Because I. Some people alluded to, like, I think the conversations with Towns were like, it took a lot of meetings and it took a lot of talks. And you had to have Katt telling Mike like, no, I want to be here, I want to do this, I want to do that. And Mike had to find a way to meet him in the middle. But that's what you consistently heard throughout the organization, was that, you know, and not trying to, you know, I mean, Tom Thibodeau doesn't need to catch strays here, but like, Tom's nature, Tom's nature wasn't that way. Like, Tom is much more like, I'm running the team. And so, you know, you know how it is, human nature, from one coach to the next, a lot of times you end up kind of going with a different model. And yeah, so Mike had open ears, open door, which is not to say last thought real quick, that, that it was always peachy Keane. I remember hearing a story and I'm forgetting which player it was, but an end of bench guy that the organization was kind of hoping to see a little bit more of earlier in the season. And there were times when like, Mike had pushed back and, and basically been like, well, I thought you guys wanted to win. Like, why am I going to play that guy? You know, like, so they kind of had to bump their heads at certain points, but they obviously got it to a wonderful place.
- [14:35]
Dave DeFore
I mean, look, we all watched the, the James Dolan video From before the playoffs. By now, the reason they brought Mike Brown in was to do this, was to be more collaborative, not to be a single voice, was to, to be more of a team player. I mean, and when you think about basketball, it's obviously, it's better to have a bunch of brains thinking about the problem you're trying to solve. And, and another thing about Mike Brown is that he's come out, you know, in these press conferences talking about his assistance, trying to get him interviews in other places. I mean, I think somebody interview Chris Chant.
- [15:11]
Sam Amick
Come on, help the guy out.
- [15:12]
Dave DeFore
Yeah, seriously. I mean, you would, a, a champion level assistant coach, like lead assistant would, would be high up on the list of guys getting interviewed. But, yeah, I guess not yet. Okay, let's, let's switch to the Spurs a little bit because, you know, you also covered de' Aaron Fox pretty extensively. He had a rough Finals run and there's a lot of chatter about, you know, his contract extension that's kicking in and what the spurs might do because they're maybe a quarterback controversy between him and Dylan Harper. What are you hearing on de' Aaron Fox as we're looking ahead to the summer?
- [15:51]
Sam Amick
I mean, there's nothing to hear yet. You know what I mean? Like, there's, there's the outside noise that is pretty loud and understandably so. You know, to me, if I was the Aaron, if I was the spurs, and if I did pay attention to the noise, the stuff that, that might, you know, cut a little deeper is that I've noticed, you know, a fair amount of former players who are weighing in on this stuff. So this is not just us talking heads. This is guys who were in the league looking at it. And, you know, Iman Shumpert in particular, and Patrick Beverley, I thought it was interesting because they both, as they analyzed the situation on two different platforms, they threaded this needle between being critical of the way de' Aaron played, but then also being critical of Mitch Johnson in the organization for not playing Dylan Moore, for not really for, for letting Fox kind of twist in the wind when he was struggling. And their argument was that, that they should have lessened his role when they saw that, first of all, you had the high angle sprain from the west finals that we got to make sure we don't forget about. And, and that they had him. You know, they put him in compromising positions which agree or disagree. You know, that's some of the noise in terms of the Spurs. You know, all through the playoffs, the messaging was that, no, this is our guy When I would kind of bring up the idea that people think you're going to have to move them, it was the opposite reaction where they talked about how happy they are for him that after all those years in Sacramento with very little stability with coaches coming in and out that de' Aaron was going to have a chance to unpack his bags and put some roots down in a market and with an organization. So that's the way they have framed it, you know. But I just me talking, obviously I don't know how to reconcile this because it's one of the more unique situations that we've seen in the league. Because it's one thing if you have an old head who needs to kind of go to a six man role because the young guy is just, he's on the come up and he's too good. The Aaron's not that old, you know what I mean? Like he's not, he's not at the stage where he's trying to do that. On top of that, are there rules in which you can't have a $60 million six man? No, but that's pretty unconventional. Like so like the idea that you would just flip their roles is just not that simple. Add on to that, you know, Rich Paul who represents Dear and you know, kind of wasted no time and he did an interview the other day where he was talking about that historical, the past with the spurs and their experience dealing with things like this. And I've written about that too. But for him to publicly say like he. That de' Aaron in his mind is Tony Parker and Dylan Harper is Monte Ginobili is like that. You know, I guarantee you Dylan's people saw that and said okay, I don't know that we agree. So then you've got Devin Vassell in a post finals press conference talking openly.
- [18:53]
Zena Keda
That was crazy.
- [18:54]
Sam Amick
Yeah. Now the only nuance there that I will share and I'm. And this is coming from friend and colleague Michael C. Wright from espn. You know, Michael said on Twitter that, that in his opinion what Devin said about Dylan applied more to the early regular season before his role increased. So he kind of tried to pour a little bit of water on it, which I get. But you still have somebody openly saying that Dylan was frustrated with his role. So that just kind of feeds into the narrative.
- [19:25]
Dave DeFore
Yeah.
- [19:26]
Zena Keda
My question is, you know, we can all, especially in that last game, we can all look at 29 point lead or excuse me, the game before that 29 point lead lost. That wasn't the De' Aaron Fox moment. At the end of the game, right, there was an entirety of. Just a collapse from the spurs that happened. If you're Victor Weminyama and you're looking at your front office and you're looking at the entirety of this final series, what would you say he needs most? Do you think he needs veteran calmness? Like someone that has like that veteran mindset? Do you think he needs more on ball creation or do you think he needs to ask for more shooting to be able to solve for the gap that we saw in the finals?
- [20:12]
Sam Amick
My first thought would be oddball creation, but that is, I mean, the tricky part is that's what Dear is supposed to be there for. That's what Dylan's supposed to be there for. Yeah, and the shooting, their shooters just come and go, which was an issue. I mean, you literally, from one day to the next, I mean, as a, as an observer, it was, it was good theater because you just never knew, like game four of the first half, it's like, oh, this is a team full of Steph Curry's, you know, and they couldn't miss, you know. And then the second half, it was a team full of Reggie Evans, you know, chucking the ball up there. Ooh, and that's rough. And so I, you know, the calmness and the veteran component, I don't know how I feel about that. Like, so, so, you know, Xena, your old friend HB Harrison Barnes had more playoff experience than anybody, but he wasn't playing much. And so his voice, as you know, if you're not playing, your voice doesn't land as much. You know, de', Aaron, the one misnomer with him because he's supposed to be the veteran is that he had one playoff series, you know, his entire career.
- [21:17]
Zena Keda
Right.
- [21:18]
Sam Amick
And so in that regard, maybe Darren gets better from a composure standpoint. I don't know that they truthfully need much at all. I just think they need, like, it's. I am a believer in the precedence of like, they needed to get their hearts broken. That's what they needed, and you need to grow from that. And I think that Victor is definitely the kind of guy that personality wise, like these scars are going to, you know, stick with him in the kind of way that he will grow immediately. Some players just kind of tell me that.
- [21:58]
Dave DeFore
I was going to say they've got some serious roster issues, though. I mean, they had four old centers that just can't play, and then Luke Cornett, who's supposed to be their backup center, couldn't play. Once you get Late into the playoffs. Champagne, like you talked about, like shooters just come and go. Champagne.
- [22:15]
Sam Amick
At the size they're going to pay him, he's up, right?
- [22:18]
Dave DeFore
He's got a prob. I mean, John Hollinger is predicting maybe up to 20 million a year, which is fine because they're cheap right now, but they're about to get expensive, you know, in the next few years. So I, I do think that they've got some stuff that they need to do, but a lot of it's just they're. They're so early in the process that they haven't had to. To solve these problems yet. I think that that was my biggest takeaway from watching them all. I mean, how they got to Game 5 of the NBA Finals this season. I think we're gonna. We're gonna probably think a lot about when they. When they eventually win a title or if they eventually win a title, we'll think a lot about how early they were and. And especially with a roster that. This is not a perfect roster by any means. You know, I mean, you mentioned Harrison. Barksley should have played probably. I think he was most well suited at the four spot.
- [23:09]
Sam Amick
Well, listen, and I don't think this is going to happen, and we're going to get into some other rumors, but, like, you know, the spurs have been tied to Jaylen Brown. Like, if he ended up actually truly being available, like, yeah, like, if. I don't know what that deal looks like, if you put Jaylen Brown on this team, like, that's Good night, you know, something like that. Yeah, I mean, that's. That's Harrison Barnes on steroids, basically. And so I agree with you and the cornet thing, it was a. It was one of the best pickups of the summer that helped him all through the regular season. And then certainly at the end, he struggled. To your point about how we're going to reflect on their run? The part that's always going to be confusing is that on the one hand, I agree with you that you might look back and say, man, how did they pull off this magic trick? But, I mean, I was there for game seven and I was there for game six in the West Finals. And like, yes, continue to say Jalen Williams didn't play A.J. mitchell didn't play the A.J. one. You know, it's the J Dub. Absence is the one we can't forget.
- [24:08]
Discover Ad Host
Right.
- [24:08]
Sam Amick
So big asterisks on that matchup. But they still were down three, two. Took out the Thunder, you know, in two consecutive games. And at home and, you know, they were a very, very legitimate team, which is why I think that even with the knicks only winning 53 games in the regular season, you know, I do think, you know, we got to give our flowers to the Knicks. Like, they, they put something magical together and they were an incredible team when it mattered most.
- [24:36]
Dave DeFore
Yeah, they were the best team in the NBA when it actually mattered. All right, guys, we're going to take a quick break and we'll be back with more Sam Amick.
- [24:48]
Guest Contributor
All right, guys, let's talk about Father's Day because apparently hot dads use Nanit. Look, it's a cheeky little line from them, but honestly, they're not wrong. Dads today are wired completely differently. They're way more hands on, more in tune, and truly co parenting. In fact, this generation of dads spends four times more time with their kids than dads did in the past. And honestly, knowing when your baby went down or how many bottles they had, that is generally one of the most attractive qualities a man can have. And that's exactly where the Nanit Smart baby monitor system comes in. It's the ultimate monitor every new dad needs. It automatically tracks sleep with zero manual logging required. And it keeps you updated in real time right from your phone or its dedicated 8 inch touchscreen display. Long gone are the days when moms had to be the sole keeper of the baby monitor. Nanit offers centralized shared app access, so both parents are completely in the know sharing the load together. You can check in from absolutely anywhere, whether you're downstairs or traveling for work. So you never miss bedtime routines or big milestones. Plus, Wirecutter actually found Nanit to be the most stringent with security of all WI FI monitors tested, crowning it best Wi Fi video monitor in 2026. If you're expecting, this is the number one item you're going to want to put on your baby registry. But if you need it right now or you want to give it to dad for the ultimate Father's Day gift, do not wait. Nanit has two big sales happening this month. Head to nanit.com that's n a n I T. As you age, just things start to change and no one really tells you about it. One day you're crushing it and the next day you're wondering, why does everything feel twice as hard? That's why I started taking Mars Men. Here's what I learned. Your body makes testosterone, but a lot of it gets locked up and can't be used. There's this protein called SHBG that basically handcuffs your testosterone. Even if your body's making testosterone, SHBG locks it up so you can't access it. It's like having money in the bank, but your debit card doesn't work. Mars Men is designed to help free lock testosterone so your body can actually use it. No synthetics, no needles, just real ingredients that help optimize energy, focus and strength. Mars Men supports healthy T levels, energy and stamina. Eight natural clinically dosed ingredients made in the USA and third party tested. They also have a 90 day money back guarantee so there's no risk. Worst case is that you don't love it and you get your money back. But over 91% of users report higher energy levels. Thousands of guys are feeling incredible results. Just check out the reviews on the website to see for yourself. For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off for life plus free shipping and three free gifts@ Mengotomars.com that's Mengotomars.com for 50% off and three free gifts when you check out. After you purchase, they will ask where you have heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you.
- [28:31]
Discover Ad Host
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com credit card.
- [29:00]
Dave DeFore
Sam, you are the king of the rumor mill for us right now. I need to know, is this the week that Giannis finally gets traded?
- [29:14]
Sam Amick
I don't know, Dave. I'm not sure about that.
- [29:16]
Dave DeFore
We're going to be doing this for the rest of our lives.
- [29:19]
Sam Amick
I mean, I'm starting to wonder, brother. Like yes, you know, quick context for people who missed it or forgot. Jimmy Haslam, the Bucks owner about a month ago, five weeks ago, publicly is a little unconventional. Publicly says that, you know, that he anticipates knowing what they're doing with the honest by the draft, which is June 23 coming up quick, everybody, you know, certainly media like myself and Eric Naim, our Bucks writer, who have covered this story forever. We're like, okay, cool, we got a finish line. Like this is we know what the timeline is going to be now as we get closer to it, I am legitimately starting to wonder if a deal goes down because and things can change. But today, as you know, I've already made some calls this morning.
- [30:06]
Dave DeFore
I.
- [30:06]
Sam Amick
It's the same old story. I don't think the Bucks are happy with what is coming their way. I certainly, you know, like, we've known for quite some time. Miami out front, Boston legitimately in the picture. You know, there's other teams that would like to get in there, but don't seem feasible, Portland being one of them. You know, Minnesota has dipped their toe in the water, but seems to have cooled in recent days. But if the Bucks continue to look at the table and not like, what is on it or potentially on it, because that's the other component here, guys, is teams are, you know, they're not really talking sincerely and directly all the time because they're afraid of pissing off their own players, for lack of a better way of putting it. So I don't know. I mean, we have definitely thought a deal was going to go down and, you know, but, but who knows if, if they might blow through the deadline here and keep trying to do something.
- [31:06]
Zena Keda
I have always thought of that draft deadline as just like a pressure point, especially after just going through what the WNBA went through with the deadlines at the cba. I'm like, ah, these, these owners, they, they're just putting pressure publicly putting the ball into people's courts. But if you're thinking about the Bucks, like, put us in their mindset, what is most important to them? Do they want a single player back? Because, like, the Boston thing is interesting, right? From a Jalen Brown perspective. But they could flip them if they're more concerned about, like, you know, trying to get younger assets, trying to get draft control. So what do you think if they're, if you're thinking from Milwaukee's perspective, what's more important, one single player coming back or trying to get draft control, younger assets for a rebuild?
- [31:55]
Sam Amick
Well, I mean, a disclaimer. John Horst and his group, that's the Bucks gm, you know, they're very close to the vest. We've been trying our best to get clarity to those kinds of questions, Zena. But so my educated guess there, it's partly coming from other teams that are trying to analyze the situation, is that they, there is definitely an idea out there that they want to win that. And part of it is related to the draft reform. That if you look at the way the game has changed with this new 3, 2, 1 lottery reform idea that is not idea like plan that is getting put into place next year. The, you know, you don't. There's no incentive to be in the bottom three, the relegation tier, that, that now has the same odds as 7 through 10. And so if your odds in the draft are going to roughly be the same from, you know, 1 through 10, 1 through 14, then you just decide to continue competing. So there is definitely a thought that if it was the Celtics, that Jalen would stay and that he would be their centerpiece. There's also a thought on the Celtics side that, like, they obviously think incredibly highly of Jaylen Brown. So I think part of the issue right now in that particular negotiation is that they're not really interested in putting anything else in the deal other than Jaylen Brown. He's that good of a player. You know, with Miami, you're talking Tyler Hero, Jaime Hawkez, Khalil Ware, and those are good players, but you're gonna have to pay Tyler with a new contract. And so you want to win. But is that the core? I mean, you have a pretty good sample size, which you've seen. And I know, you know, you're not getting. Bam. You're not getting Norm Powell, so you got to extrapolate, like, how good do you think you're going to be if you take that package? But yeah, I think if I had to pick one direction to your question, it's. It's probably towards competing with real players.
- [33:49]
Dave DeFore
Well, all right, so who do you think would be the front runner? Is it Boston? I mean, that's the one I think we hear the most about, but I think feel like Minnesota is due to make, you know, kind of another shake up trade. You know, Tim Conway, he's pretty well known for this.
- [34:07]
Sam Amick
He is. I think the issue with Minnesota is that they have not been given any indication there's. There two things. There's not been any indication that Giannis doesn't want to be there long term.
- [34:18]
Dave DeFore
Sure.
- [34:18]
Sam Amick
But I don't get the sense that, that he's, that he's, you know, giving them the sign that he does want to be there. And, and that is another thing that as we get closer to draft day, I'm wondering with Giannis and his camp, like, are they going to step on the scale even more than they have to this point? Because right now it's kind of a loose framing of like, there's a couple of teams that he would be comfortable with being there long term, and Miami and Boston definitely appear to be two of them. It's like Minnesota's not off the list, but are they on the list? And if they're going to, I mean, for them, it's it's, you know, the stakes are really, really high, because if you're talking about putting a guy like Jaden McDaniels in the deal, which he would have to be in it, then we need to know that you're all in, Big fella. We need to know that his aunt and Giannis, you know, and not only that, it's the same thing where you can't have it get reported that you put Jaden on the table only to have the Bucks just go somewhere else with the deal. And now Jaden, you know, from a human standpoint, just feels kind of less committed to less. Less connected with his current group, and you might change the vibe in your locker room. So that dance has been one of the most unique parts of this Giannis situation, because the teams are begging the Bucks to. To. To kind of just tell them, if the deal looked like this, then we have a deal, because then.
- [35:53]
Discover Ad Host
Right.
- [35:53]
Sam Amick
You know, it's like, I don't want to put somebody on the table until you tell me that you are willing to take them off the table in an absolute sense. And that is where I think, communication wise, that, you know, those types of interactions haven't really happened. And instead, you're having the kind of two sides being wary of each other, you know, and not getting a deal done.
- [36:14]
Dave DeFore
Is there a chance Jalen would be. Jaylen Brown would be involved in a trade that doesn't bring Giannis to Boston?
- [36:22]
Sam Amick
I could see it. I mean, it's. I mean, to be clear, and actually, just, you know, it's fair to share, to talk to our buddy Jay King this morning, our Celtics beat writer, about some of this stuff, and we both agreed that, like, you know, it's. It's not. It's not accurate to say that the Celtics, like, have Jaylen Brown out there right now. They don't.
- [36:41]
Guest Contributor
Right.
- [36:42]
Sam Amick
But, you know, and I think that. I think the dynamic is still okay between him and the team. But that being said, the Celtics are always historically aggressive. They've had him out there. They have had him out there out there in the past. You know, they. They went after Kevin Durant a couple of years ago after the championship, and that was going to require Jalen Brown. So, like, we've seen this movie before, and if they are, I mean, it does. This is just me talking. It does make you wonder. You know, you only have so many stakeholders with the Celtics. You got Brad Stevens, you got Joe Missoula. You know, you had Jason Tatum, obviously, who appears to have his position still solidified. So something is compelling, you know, the powers that be in Boston to kind of allow for some of these conversations to happen. And that does make you wonder if the Giannis deal doesn't go down, if they look at it objectively and say, man, Jaylen Brown, like, is at the absolute height of his value. And I know, you know, it's always, I don't like, you know, talking about players like they're just assets. But, like, from a market standpoint, that is a fact. Like, he just had a wonderful year and he just showed you what he could do, you know, if he was a 1A. And it was pretty impressive. So, you know, the possibilities elsewhere out there, you know, could be enticing.
- [38:02]
Zena Keda
And we talk about how this could impact the locker room. I'm particularly curious as to how this is going to impact draft rooms, as folks are just kind of waiting to see the dominoes fall. But there's not. That's not the only people that are kind of out in the conversations. We've had some interesting conversations around Utah. Now, Utah doesn't typically take attention until it gets to draft because it's typically right players with Ace Bailey and now Darren Peterson saying that they don't want to work out for Utah before the draft. And now there's also this aspect of Walker Kessler potentially not wanting to return or wanting a particular extension. Break down what's going on with Utah here.
- [38:44]
Sam Amick
You, Zena, hopefully my dog lets me break down what's going on with Utah. She's over here barking. Yeah, I mean, so you already mentioned the backdrop, which is the Utah for sure is one of those markets where, like, with our anonymous player poll recently, for example, we had a question of, like, where do you not want to get traded to? And in fairness, I don't want to get that part wrong, but I do believe, you know, Utah made a. An appearance on the list. And so last year, typing obnoxiously on the pod last year, you had the Ace Bailey thing. Now, to the Jazz's credit, like, their immediate counter is going to be okay. That's nice. But Ace was a productive player for us, and he came. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, him. Him not wanting to work out there, that that bluff was called, and he's now an important member of their team, and that is fair. You know, the Darren Peterson thing, they're definitely signaling that they would be more than willing to take him, even though he didn't want to work out there. And he's obviously trying to position himself either to Washington or to Memphis. The Irony there being that Memphis won the player pole thing.
- [39:53]
Dave DeFore
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:54]
Sam Amick
In terms of where players don't want to be. Now, the Walker Kessler thing, like I reported the other day, you know, and the Jazz certainly weren't happy about this. Like he's, he's very frustrated with the way not only that his restricted free agency has been handled, but then previously, you know, and I wrote they didn't offer him an extension. There was pushback on that because it's like there were numbers floated that appeared to not, you know, suffice for in his camp. And so it was like the discussion never really happened, but they pushed back on the idea that there was no interest showed in an extension. It is a classic case to me of a young guy who has a great deal of belief in himself and sees a market out there and potential and upside that his current organization, it's actually not whether or not they see it. They don't care to pay for that. On the front end. When he played five games last year, had the torn labrum. There's a lot of nuance here. For one, they've been tanking for a couple years. And I think one thing I kind of skipped over in my story about it in terms of his frustration was like there is a sense that it's like he's been a good soldier with this organization. He's played along with their plan where at times it was like you just want to go compete as a basketball player and instead you're kind of being asked to be complicit in, you know, a tanking effort that runs counter to the way you're wired. And that's the type of dynamic that any tanking team runs into. So then there's almost this kind of unspoken thing about like you're going to take care of me on the back end. Now they are offering them, you know, a pretty healthy number. You know, it's long term deal that I was told would make him the highest paid player, highest played big. That's not an all NBA player, not an all star, you know, so you could objectively look at that and say it's pretty fair. But to me, one of the main reasons that he thinks that he deserves more and is pushing here is for one, this is just my, you know, opinion, but based on the reporting is it just. It does feel like a guy that, that has decided that. That this organization doesn't believe in him enough and that he wants to play somewhere else. I do. It does feel like he's trying to push his way Elsewhere, potentially. Not to say there's no chance he does the Jazz deal, but the other backdrop here is that you've got two things, like, what might he be able to get on the open market? At which point the Jazz say, like, what we're offering is very fair. But also, at the February trade deadline, before the Pacers went out and got a Beaches, Zubot from the Clippers, gave up two first, you know, gave up a whole bunch of stuff to get Zoo. Before that, they pursued Walker with, you know, a pretty aggressive package. And, you know, and Walker knows this, and Walker knows how, like, how valuable the Pacers, you know, kind of said he was at the time. And that is the type of thing that, as far as intel and data that you bring into your pitch, you know, that is. That is playing a part here where it's like, that was seen as a sign that there is a great deal of belief in him elsewhere around the league. But that's where these negotiations get tricky because, you know, interest in belief and market, it's not just in a vacuum. Like, teams have to have cap space, keep. Teams have to. You have to. These jobs have to be open that Pacer's job is no longer open. You know, Zoo has that job.
- [43:25]
Guest Contributor
Right.
- [43:26]
Sam Amick
You know, so, yeah.
- [43:29]
Dave DeFore
Do you want to play for the Bulls? Do you want to play for the Nets?
- [43:32]
Zena Keda
I just feel bad for Kessler because I do feel like he's probably like, I have done my work, okay. I was drafted to the Grizzlies. I got traded to the Timberwolves. I get traded to the Jazz, and for the last. The entirety of my career, I've just been in a situation where I'm either tanking or getting prepared, preparing to tank. It just feels like I want to play for meaningful basketball games. So I feel like I. I understand
- [43:56]
Sam Amick
the idea, but the idea is, you know, that they're ready to play meaningful basketball games like that.
- [44:00]
Dave DeFore
That's right.
- [44:01]
Sam Amick
They got the pieces.
- [44:03]
Zena Keda
Exactly. Exactly.
- [44:04]
Dave DeFore
This is where the tanking culture is thing. I think can. Can hit some players differently. And he. And he. Frankly, you know, there was. There were reports that he and Will Hardy didn't see eye to eye. Do you remember this? Like, it kind of. It kind of went away pretty quick. But, you know, I wonder how much. How much of. What's his role on the team? You know, like, offensive.
- [44:27]
Sam Amick
Yeah, I mean, there were signs that he wanted out last season, you know, and I even wonder. It's funny, because the Jazz are trying to accomplish something that is very important in. In today's. Victor Wambanyama NBA which is that they want to be one of the only teams that are equipped with like, they. My understanding is that they would run with Markkanen, Triple J and Walker in the starting lineup, like a massive starting lineup. And you know, and then you've got like. At first I was thinking, well, maybe Walker feels like he's getting squeezed out a little bit in terms of the rotation, but Jaren is notoriously got kind of a, a low gas tank, right? So like, like he, he energy wise, like and, and foul trouble wise. You know, he's always going to be on the lower end of. Of minutes. And so I could see where basketball wise, it would be formidable and it would be, know, fantastic in a lot of ways. The problem is from a roster construction standpoint, they already have $90 million committed to Lowry and to Jiren. And so even at this, you know, rough number here, let's, you know, say it's, you know, I'm trying to do the math. I mean, I know Tim McMahon from ESPN put it at, at 5 for 140. Is that correct, Dave? That. Yeah, like in that ballpark, yeah. So, you know, you're talking about 120/plus million dollars being committed to your front court. That's not like that. That doesn't work in today's NBA. You still need wings, you still need balance. And I think that's partly the, the needle that the Jazz are trying to thread here is can we have this really unique collection of bigs that. That might, you know, prove to be capable of slowing down a guy like Wemby and Chad Holmgren and all the other great bigs in the league. But you gotta, you gotta get a deal done first.
- [46:26]
Dave DeFore
It makes them expensive immediately before they've done any contention whatsoever. I mean, you got the number, the number two pick coming up that you're gonna have to pay that salary slot. You're gonna have to do something with Keonte George. Yeah, it's. I get it. But also if you're Walker Kessler, there's a market for you. I mean, the Lakers, they need a center.
- [46:46]
Sam Amick
They do. And last thought there is like, if you guys remember, if you're Walker, you've kind of. You've had a couple different experiences in the NBA in terms of how you're perceived. But those first couple years when Rudy Gobert gets traded, you remember the guys like Walker coming out the gate as a rookie. Literally the whole narrative was like, shots. But it was like, oh my God, the Jazz just. Or the, the Timberwolves just blew it. Like, Walker Kessler is literally as good as Rudy Gobert. Like, that was the way that he was getting talked about. And I think that moment in time, if you're. If you're Walker, like, that's what you're holding on to. Like, that's the guy that I am.
- [47:26]
Guest Contributor
And.
- [47:26]
Sam Amick
And even though, you know, I've had some adversity since then, you know, that's where he's trying to get back to.
- [47:32]
Dave DeFore
All right, before we get out of here, Sam, you got any. Any other hot rumors you want to spread?
- [47:39]
Sam Amick
Sounded so salacious, Dave. We'll see, brother. I mean, you know, we got free agency doesn't officially start until July 1st, but we all know that it's already begun in terms of, you know, It's. We got LBJ, Mr. 41 Year Old. What's he going to do? You know, there's a lot of warriors rumors that I need to get to the bottom of to see how real that is. Certainly seems like LeBron is going to play next year. Just a matter of. Of where, you know, and all the way down the line.
- [48:09]
Zena Keda
But.
- [48:09]
Sam Amick
But we're just getting rolling. But no, that's all I got for you, brother. I.
- [48:14]
Dave DeFore
All right, all right, guys. I tried. I tried to get him to tell me one little nugget that we didn't read in the article anyway.
- [48:21]
Sam Amick
I mean, we've heard this name for six months. Trey Murphy continues to be loud. Like, who's gonna get Trey Murphy? Is he gonna be on the move? Yeah, you know, that would be.
- [48:30]
Dave DeFore
Man, if San Antonio somehow pulled that off.
- [48:32]
Zena Keda
Like, what if they did that shooting issue?
- [48:34]
Dave DeFore
Anyway, that's gonna do it for the show. Thanks to Sam Amick, the great Sam Amick for coming and hanging out. Everybody go and follow him. Over at the Athletic on the app, you can get alerts every time he posts a story. For Sam Amick and Zena Keda, I'm Dave Dufour, and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Thanks for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an
- [49:01]
Sam Amick
episode if you enjoyed it.
- [49:02]
Dave DeFore
Drop a like we've a rating or let us know in the comments. Thank you guys for waking up with us.
- [49:17]
Paige Desorbo
Hey, I'm Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad, and I want to talk to you about arm and hammer hardball cat litter. Because when it comes to fighting cat odor, they are the champs. Like, what Smell the litter box was my biggest fear when I got my kitty, Daphne. But since I started using Arm and Hammer cat litter. I I don't notice any cat smell. I always feel confident about anyone stopping by, whether it's my friends or my family or even people in my building. So for my fellow cat parents, be guest ready with Arm and Hammer Hardball cat litter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon.
- [49:48]
Discover Ad Host
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com credit card.
- [50:16]
Sam Amick
If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's
- [50:19]
Zena Keda
conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk talk
- [50:25]
Sam Amick
about in the real world.
- [50:26]
Zena Keda
With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language
- [50:29]
Sam Amick
experts and voiced by real native speakers,
- [50:31]
Zena Keda
Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today.
- [50:37]
Sam Amick
Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled
- [50:44]
Zena Keda
B-A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.