Wolves advance to Conference Finals + Can the Celtics come back?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily – "Wolves Advance to Conference Finals + Can the Celtics Come Back?"

Episode Details:

• Title: Wolves Advance to Conference Finals + Can the Celtics Come Back?
• Release Date: May 15, 2025
• Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esfandiar Baraheni
• Guests: Fred Katz

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1. Minnesota Timberwolves Clinch Spot in Western Conference Finals

Overview: The Minnesota Timberwolves secured their advancement to the Western Conference Finals by defeating the Golden State Warriors in a decisive Game 5 victory. The hosts discuss the Timberwolves' remarkable turnaround and their standout performances throughout the series.

Key Highlights:

• Timberwolves' Dominance:

  • Dave DuFour notes, “They did not play with their food. They got this done" (02:55) emphasizing the team's mature and focused performance.
  • The Timberwolves overcame season-long inconsistencies, showing significant improvement in the playoffs.

• Anthony Edwards' Performance:

  • Dave DuFour highlights Edwards’ growth: “He only finished with 22 points, but 12 assists, which is a career high for him in the postseason” (03:15). Edwards’ versatility as a scorer and passer was pivotal.

• Julius Randle’s Impact:

  • Chris points out, “Has there been a single player in these playoffs that has changed the way we think about him as much as Julius Randle?” (04:50). Randle emerged as a crucial player, enhancing both defense and offense for the team.

• Karl-Anthony Towns and New Acquisitions:

  • David discusses the synergy between Towns and new player Julius Randle: “Randall can get his own shot, and he's showing why that's really important for the Timberwolves right now” (05:59).
  • The addition of Randle provided the Timberwolves with the necessary defensive intensity and offensive aggressiveness.

• Timberwolves' Strategy and Future:

  • Chris deliberates on team fit and future prospects: “What is your opinion? You like, we got to see it for half the season. It looked great in the regular season.” (07:21).
  • The team may look to strengthen its offensive lineup in the offseason to complement their current core.

2. Boston Celtics’ Potential Comeback Against the New York Knicks

Overview: The Celtics made a surprising comeback in Game 5 against the Knicks despite the absence of their star, Jason Tatum. Hosts delve into the game's critical moments and analyze whether the Celtics can overcome a 3-1 series deficit.

Key Highlights:

• Game 5 Analysis:

  • Fred Katz describes the Knicks' struggle: “Boston completely torched them to begin the third and by that point it was just done with” (15:09). The Celtics dominated the third quarter, leveraging free throws and defensive strategies.

• Luke Cornett’s Stellar Performance:

  • Fred Katz praises Cornett: “Fantastic two-way performance. Picking it up with Jason Tatum missing his first game and Luke Cornett with a third quarter for the ages” (15:09).
  • Cornett’s defensive prowess was a game-changer, recording five blocks in the third quarter.

• Mitchell Robinson’s Role:

  • Fred Katz emphasizes Robinson’s importance: “Mitchell Robinson has been the best non-Brunson player in this series so far” (16:25). His defensive impact has been significant, especially against a Knicks team struggling with offensive rebounds.

• Celtics’ Strategic Adjustments:

  • Fred Katz discusses potential lineup changes: “I do think you have to be bold, right? It’s the playoffs. Like where do you go?” (21:21). Adjusting the starting lineup could enhance the Celtics' defensive and offensive balance.

• Can the Celtics Overcome the 3-1 Deficit?

  • Fred Katz confidently states, “Of course they can” (25:57), advocating for the Celtics’ capability to rally despite the odds.
  • Chris adds, “It's like, no, it's Celtics” (28:08), reinforcing belief in the team’s resilience and depth.

3. Strategic Insights and Future Implications

Timberwolves vs. Nuggets/Thunder:

• David weighs in on potential future matchups: “I think defensively you're like, give me the Denver Nuggets” (10:20), indicating a preference based on known strategies and team dynamics.

Warriors’ Team Dynamics:

• Chris and David discuss the Warriors’ offensive struggles without Steph Curry, suggesting that trading Curry is unlikely but the team may seek additional offensive support to complement their core players.

Celtics’ Defensive Strategy:

• Fred Katz analyzes the Celtics' defensive tactics: “they have to figure out how to reprieve proportion who's actually fouling and when you're doing it” (22:54). Effective foul management could be key to the Celtics' success in upcoming games.

Towns’ Shooting Challenges:

• Fred Katz highlights the impact of defensive strategies on Karl-Anthony Towns’ performance: “He takes way fewer threes when he's a small on him than when he has a big on him” (32:08). This adjustment by opponents has significantly affected the Knicks’ offensive efficiency.

4. Hosts’ Conclusions and Final Thoughts

• Dave DuFour: Emphasizes belief in the Celtics’ ability to overcome challenges despite Jason Tatum's absence.
• Chris expresses excitement for the upcoming games and maintains optimism about both the Timberwolves and Celtics' prospects.
• Fred Katz: Reinforces confidence in the Celtics’ depth and strategic flexibility, underscoring their potential to advance further in the playoffs.

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Notable Quotes:

• “They did not play with their food. They got this done” – Dave DuFour (02:55)
• “He only finished with 22 points, but 12 assists, which is a career high for him in the postseason” – Dave DuFour (03:15)
• “Has there been a single player in these playoffs that has changed the way we think about him as much as Julius Randle?” – Chris (04:50)
• “Boston completely torched them to begin the third and by that point it was just done with” – Fred Katz (15:09)
• “Mitchell Robinson has been the best non-Brunson player in this series so far” – Fred Katz (16:25)
• “Of course they can” – Fred Katz (25:57)
• “He takes way fewer threes when he's a small on him than when he has a big on him” – Fred Katz (32:08)
• “It's like, no, it's Celtics” – Chris (28:08)

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Conclusion: This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily provides an in-depth analysis of the Minnesota Timberwolves' impressive playoff run and the Boston Celtics' potential comeback against the Knicks. With expert insights from hosts and guest Fred Katz, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the strategies, player performances, and future implications for both teams as the NBA playoffs intensify.

Transcript

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[Chris]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. Coming up, the Wolves have moved on to the Western Conference finals after beating the Warriors. And we got Fred Katz to talk about the Celtics and their big win over the Knicks and whether or not they can come back from down three. 1. Fire up that boys to men. Good morning everybody. Good morning sir. The Golden State warriors have reached the end of the road. End of the road over. They did not pick up the one win they needed to hopefully get Steph Curry back for the theoretical game six. They they dropped game five 121 to 108. Excuse me. 110. 110. The final score just updating in front of me. S the Wolves. They they did not play with their food. They got this done care of business. Five games. That's what we like to see, especially for a team that has confused us and confounded us all year until literally the playoffs.

[David]

Yep, they flipped the switch in an incredible way. I mean, confusing and confounding is basically how I've described them over the last 82 games. That's exactly how they felt. They play with their food often and the fact that they did not play with their food in this series is a sign of maturity. It's a sign of growth. On Anthony Edwards part, who I think generally didn't have like the most outstanding, incredible scoring game game. He Only finished with 22 points, but 12 assists, which is a career high for him in the postseason. Think he's been incredible as a passer throughout this season and postseason, if you will. He was great against the Warriors. They were showing too. It just shows growth from his side, right. Like the development that he's been. And we've talked about this a bunch, but him and Randall headed to the Western Conference.

[Chris]

Another big Randall game. Another big Randall game. And Randall obviously like big source of contention this whole year. Totally. How's the fit? You know, obviously he comes in for Towns. His playoff fit has been excellent. Number one, this guy has brought an intensity on the defensive end that I didn't really know he had. I mean, you think about him guarding Luka Doncic in that Lakers series at times, but his offensive aggressiveness, I mean he's just been getting them like just getting into the paint, getting shots up and then other things are coming out of that for them. I mean, they kind of got this nice, this two headed attack with, with those two guys, which I, I think is what the, the vision was in New York. Right. Like if he could have been that with Brunson, you, you see what, how it works. And Anthony Edwards and Randall over the course of the season figured out a way to make this work. And it looks really good. I mean, Randall being able to play bully ball against the, the warriors, right.

[David]

Like they were against Traymon.

[Chris]

Big.

[David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Has there been a single player in these playoffs that has changed the way we think about him as a playoff player as much as Julius Randle? Yeah, maybe not.

[Chris]

Right?

[David]

Because I've seen Everybody quote that 15 game sample of when he was in New York. And the shooting percentages, man, I even mentioned them. The fact that he's like, he shot 28% from three and was barely shooting well in any of those postseason playoff series with the Knicks. He has completely changed that in the first time with the Timberwolves. Incredible score, very poised. You mentioned the defensive effort. He's bought in on that end. I think he's been a great second fiddle for the Timberwolves and Anthony Edwards, a guy who can create his own shot when they need it to. And that's actually a quality that you'll listen to us talk to Fred Katz about. Karl Anthony Towns. That's a quality that is very different than Karl Anthony Towns. Towns needs a little bit more of a setup to get him going. Randall can get his own shot, and he's showing why that's really important for the Timberwolves right now.

[Chris]

For all the talk about Randle being a spacing problem coming to Minnesota, I mean, he took six threes in the game, and Carl Anthony Towns took three for the Knicks. Right. So spacing is relative. It's how you use a guy. And Randall's showing a willingness to take five or six threes a game, I think shows, you know, that guy is out there willing to. Willing to go along, to get along. Um, you know, it was a. It was not like a huge bench night for them. I mean, they. They really just took care of business the entire time. And. And it was never. It was never really in doubt. You know, even when the game was closer score wise, like, it just. It felt like the. The Timberwolves just hadn't quite, you know, turned it on yet. And really, the warriors just. They had a little bit more steam the first, you know, 18 minutes of the game than. Than maybe we expected.

[David]

Yeah. I mean, look this, if anything, from the warriors perspective, you can look at this and say this much, much closer series if Steph Curry was playing. That's the obvious, right?

[Chris]

I mean, you. You judge it by the first quarter of. Of game one. I definitely, you know, they probably think.

[David]

They win it, right?

[Chris]

Yeah, that's. Yeah.

[David]

And so, like, this was one of the worst offensive series that the warriors have played, and it's because Steph wasn't there. Now, for what it's worth, they also need to go into this offseason and maybe add some offense, some creation next to him and Jimmy, some shooters that can actually knock down the shot.

[Chris]

Should we not do the thing that we've done for every other team when they get El eliminated and say, hey, should they trade Steph Curry? No, of course they shouldn't trade Steph Curry. Let me ask you this. S. Yeah, you see enough from the Jimmy Butler partnership that you're in for next year and I'm not saying, like, it's unrealistic to think that they would trade him, but what about you? Like, what is your opinion? You like, we, we got to see it for half the season. It looked great in the regular season. I think the playoffs, you know, maybe a question mark.

[David]

I think I've seen enough to go with it next season because they were awesome in the regular season and especially when Jimmy Butler was healthy. I don't think he was 100% after he got hurt in that Rocket series. You could just.

[Chris]

And also, they're saying he had like some kind of an illness, the last.

[David]

Some kind of an illness, which.

[Chris]

That tracks because he did not look like Jimmy Butler.

[David]

He did not. No. And look, I know the aggressiveness from him wanes sometimes, and again, that's why I think they need to add some shoes, shooters and some shot creation next to those two. But generally they were awesome in the regular season when it was him, those two and, and Draymond Green, and so that nucleus moving forward into next year. I, I don't think they should re sign Jonathan Kamiga. I think Kaminga looked good. Yeah, really good in this series, but it just makes sense for him to kind of spread his wings.

[Chris]

Probably makes sense, right?

[David]

Yeah, that was gonna be my next go to Utah.

[Chris]

That's a piece for the warriors, though. See, this is the thing, right? Like a signing trade for Kaminga. I actually, a lot of people have looked at this from the Kaminga side where, hey, Kaminga probably earned himself some money back that, that he may have lost in the last half of the season, but the truth is he reclaimed a lot of value for the warriors also in this. That's a tool that they're going to be able to use to, to maybe pick up another piece or two. Right. Like when you consider how, how young he is and maybe it's a draft pick, you know, I don't know, like, how much they're going to get. Right. Player wise. But yeah, I mean, Kaminga had another pretty good game. I mean, it's not the same as what we saw. I think game three was his best game in the series because he was playing both ways at a high level. But I thought he was pretty good again, showed that he can go out and get a bucket, which is what the warriors theoretically needed, you know, quite often this year.

[David]

Yeah. And, and look, maybe that's the argument for bringing him back, honestly, is the fact that, like, hey, we have this young guy, clearly can get a bucket. How do we solve this issue? How do we solve the fact that him and Jimmy Butler can't work or the fact that we just really. He fell out of the rotation when everybody was healthy for this team. Maybe that's the way they look at it. But I also think from your side of things, you can probably get something in a sign of trade for Kaminga.

[Chris]

Let me ask you a question before we, before we go to Fred Katz, let me ask you a question. Who does the Minnesota Timberwolves want to play? The Denver Nuggets or the Oklahoma City Thunder?

[David]

Okay, this is interesting, right, Because I think both teams are going to really be a pain in the butt for the Minnesota Timberwolves. But it's kind of like the devil you know versus the devil that you don't know type of thing because they've played Denver, they know what Denver can be. I think the lack of a rim protector. Now you can call Nikola Jokic a rim protector. He's still a big body, but like the lack of Chet Holmgren and Isaiah Hartenstein makes it so that Anthony Edwards can get to the basket more often. Makes it that Julius Randall can get his game off more often. So I think defensively you're like, give me the Denver Nuggets. That said, this Denver zone is pretty intriguing and they've done a good job of zoning up on Shea, the box and one, you know, basically saying, like anybody else, we're daring anybody else that make these shots. I, I feel like I would be scared to face that if I was Ant and the Wolves, because they have struggled against the zone, they struggled against the Warrior zone. They had that 20 point comeback loss that they had to the Bucks, which was all zone defense. I don't know. I think that's part of it. That makes me say like it's a toss up. Whoever comes at this point, I'll take it. I feel like they would say Denver, though. How about you?

[Chris]

I. I think Denver is probably what they would say. Just because you've got the blueprint, right, You've done it and you know what to do.

[David]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Theoretically, this Denver team isn't as good as the one from last year. Theoretically. Right. MPJ looks like a shell of himself with. With the shoulder issue. No, no. Kcp, obviously, the bench guys.

[David]

Right.

[Chris]

I mean, really, you got four, maybe four and a half. Right. Like, depending on how MPJ's rebounding. So, you know, I do think that you probably want Denver, except Nikola Jokic.

[David]

It's Jokic.

[Chris]

Jokic might have, you know, spent a lot of time watching that tape. Maybe he's got that defense all figured out. Who knows.

[David]

And it's not Carl Anthony Towns this time as the primary, it's Randall and Gobert helping. So it's a little bit different than last year's Timberwolves team too.

[Chris]

Yeah, I don't know. I'm excited guys. Stick around. We got Fred Katz and man Fred. Fred really believes in the Celtics. Let's just say that.

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[Chris]

Just when we thought the Boston Celtics had run out of hope, hope returned. They win the Game five that they were expected to lose after the loss of Jason Tatum. Here to talk about it, Fred Katz. He was in the building. Fred, that was a bit of a dud for the Knicks.

[Fred]

It was absolutely a dud for the Knicks. I don't think there's any playing around with it. They were, they were okay in the first half. They got off to an okay start and it was tied at halftime. And then all of a sudden Boston just completely torched them to begin the third and by that point it was just done with. Boston shot 18 free throws just in the third quarter. Jalen Brunson had five fouls in one quarter. The Knicks were put into rotation constantly. They didn't pick up guys in transition. Boston completely took advantage of that, which was somewhat of a problem all night. Derek White was freeing himself left and right. No rhyming scheme intended whatsoever. They, Boston just played like a much better team. Fantastic game from Jalen Brown I thought. Fantastic two way performance. Picking it up with Jason Tatum missing his first game and, and, and Luke Cornett with a third quarter for the ages. Five blocks in the third quarter for Luke Cornett with him being the halftime adjustment. But Kristaps Porzingis not coming out to start the second half and, and Luke Cornett starting there. So I mean a bad night for the Knicks, but a really great night for Boston.

[David]

I wish Luke Cornett chased that triple double. I was looking for it, I was waiting for it. I was like, I just need the stat that says Luke Cornett has a triple double with blocks. That would be incredible. But look, yeah, this, this was an all around effort for the Celtics. From the Knicks perspective, it seems like Mitchell Robinson has been a really important part of, for them this series entirely. Do you think they have to lean on him more as this, I mean for, for game six, is that just the equation here for them?

[Fred]

Could be. I mean there, there, there are a couple of questions that I have after that game five and, and, and they're kind of all, and maybe they're more than a couple, but all of them involve the starting lineup to a degree. I mean Mitchell Robinson has been the best non Brunson player in this series so far. You look at the impact metrics and it's not even close. He coming into this game, he and Miles McBride were the only two players on the team who were a plus when they were on the floor. And Robinson was a plus 35. McBride was a plus five. And the reason he's a plus five is because he plays so many of his minutes with Mitchell Robinson because they come off the bench together. I mean when Mitchell Robinson was on the court coming into this game, the knicks were recovering 38% of available offensive rebounds, which is just obscene. It is an unbelievable number. And you watch the games and you're like, how is it not more like he's just. Is getting a hand on everything. Their defense is a million times better when he's out there because it was pick and roll defense. And, and he hit all six of his three throws in the game tonight. So yeah, obviously that wasn't a problem. That could be something. You go to that double big lineup, you know, Mitchell Robinson ended up closing that first half for the Knicks over Carl Anthony Towns because Towns had three fouls and he was playing well enough and Towns was struggling enough that you kind of forgot that the reason that he was playing was because Townsend three fouls. He kind of felt like it could have if Townsend 2 kind of felt like it could have just been a basketball decision because earlier in the playoffs, Tibbs actually closed a game with Mitchell Robinson. I, I wonder about the starters in general. You know, the starters all year have been somewhat underwhelming compared to what we thought this team was going to be. Given its lineup construction, they were only plus 4.1 per 100 possessions during the regular season, which is obviously above average. But the way the Knicks are constructed with a bunch of top tier talent in their first unit, you want that lineup to be a really way, way higher number than plus 4.1 per 100 in the playoffs. They're a net negative coming into this. Boston, coming into this game Tonight, they were -22. The starting lineup was in the Boston series. It's going to be worse after the way they got throttled in the third quarter. You know, you mentioned Luke Cornett's success. Part of the reason Luke Cornett had so much success is they could put him on Josh Hart. And they weren't guarding Josh Hart and just let the dude hang in the middle like we say he was guarding Josh Hart. In reality, what they played was the opposite of a box. It was the opposite of a box. And one it was, it was Luke Anti gravity. One in a box.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Fred]

Yeah, one in a box. That's what we're going to call it. And it was four dudes playing man defense and it was Luke Cornett playing his own, which is what they did. Like, it wasn't like we're roaming off of Josh Hart. It was just Luke Cornett's going to play his own in the middle of the court and he's just going to basically play as if he's in the middle of A two, three or something like that. And he blocked five shots because he could hang around the room and he was going to do anything with it.

[David]

It was awesome.

[Chris]

The thing about Mitchell Robinson in the series, right, the thing about Mitchell Robinson in the series is that his size actually just mattered so much because Porzingis has essentially been non existent. He's been able to destroy the glass and obviously now without Tatum, like there's even more of an opportunity for him, in my opinion, to, to hit the glass. Cornette neutralized that a little bit in the game, Right. I actually think that now this is a cornet series, right. I, I think that if you're the Celtics, you go away from Porzingis, who isn't.

[David]

What a weird series.

[Chris]

He's not healthy, right? Yeah. Period. I mean he, he looks bad and it's pretty obvious he's going through some and Cornette has had a great season as it is and so I'm not surprised that he was able to have a game like this for them. To me, this is the biggest surprise. I think it is a little bit like Tibbs being a little bit gun shy on, on mixing things up, you know, hey, look, this got us here, you know that you don't want to mess with the vibes. And I understand that. And it's, it would be very unique, Fred, for the team that's up in the series to make that sort of adjustment. But I think you have to be bold, right? It's the playoffs. Like where do you go? Is it, is it moving Josh Hart out of the lineup and going with that double big Carl Anthony Towns and Mitchell Robinson or you know, what do you think?

[Fred]

Well, I think either way, if you're going to make a move in the first unit, which I don't know if you necessarily have to, but I do think there's, there's a medium here, right. Like you don't have to make the move in the first unit. You're up 3, 2. A lot of this success that's happened just happened with the starters out there. In spite of the numbers that I just said. Like a lot of success has come from these starters, including Josh Hart, who.

[Chris]

Was not against Austin though.

[Fred]

Well, in game four. It did in game four. Those guys were good together. I, I will say the reason that it kind of has to be Josh Hart is not because of Josh Hart getting demoted. It's because Josh Hart with a non shooter like Mitchell Robinson just doesn't work. And if you're going to put the other big. Right. Exactly. And if you're going to put in Deuce McBride, then you're, you're just going to go all in on a five out lineup. Yeah, I think there's an argument to be made play Mitchell Robinson not because Josh Hart has lost the spot, but because Mitchell Robinson has won the spot. And his minutes need to be maximized. And if they're going to hack him, it's harder for them to hack him if he's in the start. If he's in the starting lineup as opposed to off the bench. Because a greater, even if he plays the same amount of minutes, a greater proportion of his minutes will be played when his team is. When the Celtics are not in the bonus. And that is going to be. That will make things easier. That being said, he made all six of his free throws in this game. And maybe you wanna. Right. I mean, look, they have to go away from it. They have to look independent of whether he's making his free throws or not.

[Chris]

Because the reality would say, the math would say you stick with it. You. You stick with it. Right?

[Fred]

No, but here's why I say that.

[Chris]

Really? Yeah.

[Fred]

Regardless. Regardless. Here's why I say that. And you know, I'm, I'm not a. Oh, I know the math kind of guy, but here's why. Because Porzingis isn't playable right now. He either literally is unplayable or he's figuratively unplayable. And as Mr. Robinson was getting rebounds and Cornet was hacking him, I was like, oh, they're screwed if Luke Cornett gets in foul trouble. So maybe you don't have to completely go away from hacking. But I do think you have to edit the strategy to some degree because Luke Cornell is picking up 2, 3, 4 superfluous flowers for throughout a game. And that theory is that strategy is viable when you're like, we need 15 good minutes at Luke Cornett, but you need 25 good minutes at Luke Cornett now. So don't give him two or three or four extra fouls on his record. That's he doesn't actually have six fouls.

[Chris]

Gonna give us some. Like, hey, Xavier Tillman, get that warm up off, go out there maybe.

[Fred]

Yeah, he might.

[Chris]

I don't know. What would Ben Affleck do in this situation?

[Fred]

Joe Missoula loves Mitchell Robinson too. Like Joe Missoula is doing this because he has the highest esteem for Mitchell Robinson. He wants him off the court. But I would just worry about Cornet's fouls with the way the Porzingis is playing. Like that is an Adjustment you're gonna have to make moving forward, I think where you're gonna have to reprieve proportion who's actually fouling and when you're doing it and how you're doing it. Because I don't think you could just say Luke Cornett, take three fouls and you're good. I just, I don't know if you can do it. It also allows the Knicks to get their defense set up when they hack. And that's part of the reason why Mitchell Robinson lineups are defending so well, because they're just able to keep their matchups. And look at the Celtics. All the threes Celtics got tonight. How many of those threes happen? Because the Knicks just didn't match up for whatever reason. They didn't come back. They didn't communicate. They didn't pick up Derrick White, they didn't pick up Peyton Pritchard, they didn't pick up their own guy. And so there was a mismatch the Celtics could exploit. And the Knicks had to go into rotation. They weren't switching well either. So they were screwed on that. Like how many times did, did they just get, get good shots? You would have thought by their efforts.

[Chris]

That, that the Knicks had been blowing the Celtics out in all these games. I mean, to be honest with you. And instead of these being, you know, the, the Celtics, like, like game one, they have the worst shooting, weirdest NBA playoff history. And you know, it takes this great comeback to win. I, I think that the Knicks were a little lackadaisical, plain and simple. It's, I do ask, did they leave the window open?

[David]

Well, I was just about to ask that to Fred. Like now the Knicks have a little bit of pressure on them, right? Because you are going to Madison Square Garden. You got to close it out. You forced game seven then, now it's a toss up and the Celtics are playing motivated because you're, you don't have Jason Tatum and you're playing for jt. I saw a lot of Celtics fans wearing T shirts like that too. Do you think the Celtics can pull this off? Can they pull off the 3:1 comeback?

[Fred]

Of course they can. I, I, I hate that we as a society are such prisoners of the moment that we couldn't say that. Of course they can. When it was 3:1. I mean, didn't, didn't everyone who didn't wear orange and blue coming into the series pick the Celtics? Didn't.

[David]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Fred]

Tons of people pick the Celtics in five. Didn't tons of people think it wasn't Going to be much of a series.

[Chris]

So Knicks didn't beat anybody all year. Right.

[Fred]

If you thought the Celtics could win 4 out of 5 to win the series, then can't the Celtics win 4 out of 5 to close out a 20 deficit? Can't the Celtics win 3 out of 3? Look, I know they don't have Jason Tatum. That's obviously a huge part of this. I feel like we just. Because of two or three or four weird Celtics games, we forgot.

[David]

Very weird.

[Fred]

Who the Celtic. It's super weird.

[Chris]

No question.

[Fred]

Like the weirdest. But have we totally forgotten who the Celtics are in like a week? Don't we have, don't we have years of evidence that show that this team is awesome, that you can win two games? They win two games against the team they, they beat four times. I'm not saying they totally will. Like, they don't have, but it's in.

[David]

The realm of possibilities just because it is.

[Chris]

But they win without Tatum. They win without Tatum all the time. They win without Tatum. They win. When Tatum has a bad game, they win. They win. Right? They have, they're super crushed.

[Fred]

They crushed the finals last year and Jason Tatum was not even like the dude in the finals. It was Jalen Brown.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Fred]

Like this, this team without Jason Tatum is loaded. This team is loaded. They're really good. They can beat the Knicks. They could also go on and beat India in the next round too, if they do that. Like, this team is, is still crazy, crazy good. The fact that we're talking about them like, oh, could they come back from down 3 1? Of course they can. Obviously, as you watch way too much.

[Chris]

Basketball, ask that question like, it's like.

[Ben]

It'S, we gotta ask.

[Fred]

You're asking me like, it's like, no, it's Celtics.

[David]

No, I know.

[Chris]

I'll tell you right now, I mean, you watch game five and completely repeatable, I think.

[David]

Of course. Absolutely. Right. Because nothing changes for them. They just, they are a well oiled machine. And the reason you ask these questions is because they, they seem obvious out the gate. You're like, of course they can win this series. But it's just about the, the JT factor. It's like, can, can they do it? Aspect.

[Chris]

If Jalen Brown gives him two more.

[David]

Games like this, he was phenomenal. He was.

[Chris]

A couple of other guys step up. No doubt. I, I don't know. I, I have to say, Fred, it feels like it's going seven now. I don't, I don't know why. I just. The Celtics feel like it's like they galvanized together. Right. Like they're just. It was a different thing last night.

[Fred]

Well, if it's going seven, then the Knicks are in trouble.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fred]

Because that means it's going back to Boston for a game seven. And those are not easy to win on the road. So if it's going seven, the Knicks are in trouble. I will say what we have seen from the Knicks side is that when Jalen Brunson goes nuts, they can be in a pretty good place. And Brunson was not himself at all tonight. I mean, that sixth foul that he got was so. And his fifth foul, too. Both of them.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Fred]

So out of character. So incredibly out of character. You know, Brunson will play when he's in foul trouble all the time. Tibbs Lee's a man. He's got two fouls in the first quarter, three fouls in the second quarter. Tibbs is really big. One thing that I think is a really great Tibbs trade is he's really good at not fouling his own players out, and he's really good at knowing who he can play when they're in foul trouble and who he can't. And he lets Brunson play in foul trouble all the time. And he. Even though, you know, you can make jokes about how Brunson doesn't defend, but, like, he. Brunson's actually pretty physical as a defender. Like, he tries to get under guys to take charges and all that stuff. And he does all the, you know, trying to be a salesman and all that kind of stuff.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Fred]

And he doesn't really pick up that extra foul when he's got four in the third and he's still playing, or three in the second and he's still playing. And the fact that he got one on a reach in and one on a play where he was. He was trying. And the sixth one was on a play where he was trying to show him recover on a coverage. And Jalen Brown just knew he was going to show him recover and hadn't even started moving yet. And Brunson still jumped at him. It was like, you know, 35ft from the basket or wherever he was. Those were very out of character plays. Like, a lot of the stuff from him tonight was out of character. Carl Anthony Towns has made two three pointers in this entire series, which is wild to me. I get one today, right?

[David]

Pretty sure you saw. I saw him hit one today.

[Fred]

Yeah. He's been guarded with wings. I get it. And Smalls. But. Okay, figure. Gotta figure Something out with his. With his shooting.

[Chris]

Look, you're. You're playing against the Celtics and you know they're going to try to get 53s. Your best three point shooter needs to take more than three. Just. That's just my. My offensive coaching advice. Figure out a way for your best three point shooter to get more in.

[David]

The thing with them all season.

[Chris]

All season. Which is why the starting lineup has been so clunky all year.

[Fred]

Yeah, it's especially the thing with them when they play against a team that. That is. That is willing and able to put smalls. I did a story a couple of weeks ago on how this is when Detroit was putting Tobias Harris on him. On how Towns's habits just completely change. Not his production even. Just his habits completely change when he has a small on him versus a big. And how that affects the Knicks. How his shot selection changes. He takes way fewer threes when he's a small on him than when he has a big on him. He doesn't get to the line as much. And the Knicks are way worse. The Knicks offense is way worse. When the Knicks. When Towns was primarily guarded by a non big man during the regular season The Knicks went 11 and 14 in those games. When he was primarily guarded by a big man they went 35 and 12 in those games. That is such a ginormous difference. And when the Knicks fell off at the end of the year when the offense started to look worse at the end of the year, guess what that coincided with. It coincided with about half the league starting to put wings on Towns. Which was something that only really happened with the super elite defenses the beginning of the year. Now the whole league started to catch on and everybody was doing it and the Charlotte Hornets were doing it and the Washington Wizards were doing it and you didn't have to be an elite team or an elite defense in order to do it. And the Detroit Pistons did it throughout that series in the first round. And Boston you knew was going to do it. They did it all regular season and it is just something they have to figure out. The habits like town stakes like three threes a game when they're small guarding him as his primary guy. And that just can't. I just can't.

[Chris]

You're going to run into a math problem with the Celtics again. Three, two. That series we. We had written, we had penciled in the next round. We'll see what happens.

[Fred]

Is trying to silence the doubters who would have ever thought they could make the conferen for the 907th season in a row.

[Ben]

Nobody would have ever predicted it.

[David]

But we believe Celtics, man. The we believe something.

[Chris]

All right, that's gonna do it for the show, folks. Thanks to Fred Katz, Brass bear, Henny. I'm Dave Dufour. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

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This episode is supported by FX's welcome to Wrexham, Rob McElhenny and Ryan Reynolds. Welsh football club has made history, becoming the first team ever to achieve three consecutive promotions. Watch history unfold this season as Wrexham climbs higher in the pyramid with their eyes set on the championship league. The stakes get higher with a new level of intensity, competition and costs. FX is welcome to Wrexham tonight on fx, stream on Hulu.