← The Autism Little Learners Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Today I'm talking to Laura Hayes. Laura is a speech language pathologist who specializes in AAC and does a lot of work surrounding AAC for Gestalt Language Processors. You are going to love Laura and everything she shares when it comes to aac. Be sure to head over and listen now. Hi, I'm Tara and this is the Autism Little Learners podcast. I am a speech language pathologist with a twist. I've run my own communication based classroom for over two decades and I'm so excited to share actionable tips and strategies for supporting young autistic children. My goal is to help you feel more confident and successful when teaching your autistic child or students at the early childhood level. If you are ready to learn some tried and true strategies that really work, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Let me give you a little background on Laura. Laura Hayes is a speech language pathologist with over 15 years of augmentative and alternative communication, or AAC experience in both the school and medical settings. Laura has presented across state, national and international conferences and she's been published and supported both inpatient and pediatric and educational augmentative and alternative communication research. She currently hosts a podcast for her school district titled Innovative AAC Solutions. She's authored an online course on Gestalt language processing and AAC now found@meaningfulspeech.com and she supported thousands of AAC device users in moving towards autonomous communication. Hi there, Laura. Welcome to the Autism Little Learners Podcast. I am so, so excited to talk to you today.
- [01:58]
B
Thank you so much, Tara. I'm so glad to be here.
- [02:00]
A
It's funny with doing interviews with people, you chat with people in the dms, you get awesome ideas from people, and then to actually talk to them face to face via Zoom is so cool. And it's like an unexpected, really, really neat part of what my job is now.
- [02:20]
B
I, I couldn't agree more. Just connecting with people and then feeling like you've. You're starting to talk to an old friend. It's so nice.
- [02:27]
A
Yeah. And I, I do have to mention before we kind of get into the content today, back when, this summer when I had the Preschool Autism Summit, Laura connected me with a organization called Lily's Voice and it ended up being the kind of charitable contribution for the summit and we're going to do that going forward. So I just have to thank you for connecting me with Lily's Voice because together, all of us that participated in the summit made a difference and got AAC devices to kids who needed them.
- [03:02]
B
Yeah, and they're an amazing organization. I know Stephanie is so grateful and I think it was just one of those kismet things that was meant to happen. So it was my pleasure, truly. I think it was just the stars aligned and it was supposed to be that way.
- [03:16]
A
I love it. We'll link Lily's voice here too, so that as we talk about aac, people can check them out and check Stephanie out. But first, tell us a little bit about Laura. Who are you? What do you do? What's your background?
- [03:31]
B
Sure. So I. Laura, as a little girl is kind of where my story starts because I have a sister who has complex communication needs. So I always like to say that I kind of started becoming an SLP from infancy. I interpreted for her. I was trying to figure out her speech patterns and figures, figuring out how to teach her language. And so then when I started my college career, I found this major called Speech Language Pathology, Communication Disorders. And I jumped right in and never looked back. That led me to a pediatric acute CFY experience that then I just kind of found myself drawn to working with the outpatient population that ended up having a diagnosis of autism. And so I was working with all these families and autistic patients and turns out many of them had complex communication needs. So then I was kind of thrown into using aac. And that is a big ask. And it was, you know, even now we're still learning. I tell people, you're never not learning if you're working with aac because technology is changing on, on the ready, right? It's every day something new is, is learning, is, is happening and you're learning. I think this week alone there were three new things I was told about and was on the fly. Learning. You know, there's a new software update. It's AAC Awareness Month. So lots of things are launching and shifting and so you're never bored. And that really fit my personality. So I joined the AAC team at the hospital and then one day a position opened up in the school schools. And so now I have the privilege of being a facilitator here in St. Louis for a large school district. We support many, many devices. I alone support over 250 high tech devices. And so I get to work with families and I get to work with staff and communication partners and I get to train them, which is kind of how my social media started. I wanted to reach beyond that. I know a lot of families and teams don't have those resources. And so that's how. That's the beginning. The origin of AAC Innovations, which is my social media account where I share knowledge on what I've learned and what I hope others can continue to grow and learn in the field of aac.
- [05:54]
A
Absolutely. And I love your account because you just show so many practical things and like, good statistics and data and good information. And I guess I didn't realize how involved you are with aac. Like, I knew that you support AAC users, but to that extent is amazing. And I think that's where a lot of us, even as SLPs, get a little like, oh, I don't know all the options, or like you said, it's so changing so fast. And if your job isn't just focusing on that one area, it would be really easy to feel behind. And things change too. And we'll talk a little bit about this, but it used to be we would tell kids what button to push or guide their hand, and now we talk so much more about modeling. And so I think that piece is really going to make people feel a lot more at ease with how do I even implement it in the classroom. And then you have special education teachers, paraprofessionals who are like, if the SLP isn't quite sure where to start or how to model this or use this in the classroom, how do I support my students? So I, I'm hoping today, you know, we'll have a couple ideas that anyone, any background, can take off with and, and feel like they're doing the right thing.
- [07:18]
B
Yeah, it's so intimidating, right? We. We jump in, especially as you mentioned, if you're a Jack or Jill of all trades and you're in the schools and you're trying to do it all and you've got fluency and got some feeding maybe, and you got sensory things, you really putting on a hat of, of everything. And then you have these devices that we're adding to the mix. How do we make them less intimidating? So, yes, I think, you know, the more we can get over that hump and give teams resources to make it simpler and to help them feel more confident is. Is vital.
- [07:50]
A
Yeah, I love this. And as you said, it's AAC Awareness Month. It's October as we're recording this. And so there's just been a lot more out there about AAC posting on social media and different apps, different devices. And you know, AAC Awareness Month is awesome, but it can also be super overwhelming. So I saw. Let's just jump in. Talking about aac, I saw a graphic on your Instagram account that I think shocks People at first. So it says things not to say to an AAC user. And then you list stuff like find the, say it on your talker, touch the, hit the button, say it in a sentence. And I think most of us have been guilty of these comments. And you know, it's not a shaming thing, it's to get us thinking. And so why should we avoid these questions and phrases?
- [08:47]
B
Do you know, Tara? Not no one knows this, but I almost didn't post that post because I felt like it was so polarizing and I didn't want people to feel like, like I was attacking what people try to do because all of these things that I put in that post are from well meaning people that are just trying to do their best and trying to help someone develop language. And so things like touch, touch this or say this, or find the. What we would describe those as is things that are either a receptive identification task or something that is a maximum prompt. And really when it comes down to it, all of those things that we're talking about, we're thinking that we know what they want to say. We think that we know what the AAC user should or could be saying in that moment. And we don't. We just don't. Our goal for someone who is an AAC user is for it to be an extension of their voice and ultimately what they are thinking, what we would call their autonomous thoughts. And so autonomous communication is what they want to say, what they want to talk about. And so you'll even see in some of my other posts where I'm saying things like actually don't start with requests. Many times I start with giving them control and having them tell me what to do or even insulting me or protesting because they haven't had that ability to do that like some of their peers. And it can be so powerful. So I think those, those hiccups of, of trying to do what's best in saying touch though or find the. It really comes back to the fact that's easy for us to say because then we know what we think they're trying to go for, right? Like I know if they don't hit the picture of blue or the picture of a cup or eat or whatever that word is that they didn't, that maybe they didn't say what I wanted them to say, right? So I can count that as incorrect. But what if they didn't want to? There's a really great video out there of a kid in the classroom and the teacher asks them, what did you. What do you want for lunch? Or what is something about a meal? It's like, what do you. Do you want salad or a cheeseburger for lunch? And then he shows her. He goes up to the categories, and he goes to breakfast. And she goes, oh, you want to talk about breakfast? And he. And you could see him just kind of processing, and he doesn't end up saying anything about breakfast. But. And I'm. I watched this video, and I think, oh, he just wanted the option. He wanted the option to talk about breakfast. And so I think that goes back to. We don't. We're not in their minds. We don't know exactly what someone wants to say. And so we really just need to be cognizant of how we approach AAC devices. It's an extension of them. What do you. We think they want to say? What could we offer them? Like, I wonder if you might want to talk about.
- [11:26]
A
Yeah.
- [11:26]
B
What your interest is. Or I see you reaching for the. And modeling that on a device without demands.
- [11:32]
A
Yeah. And that is a huge piece that has just been in the forefront. So much more is that modeling. And I think that's something everyone could do. And you could do it with a child's device, you know, if they're okay with you touching it. So you could be modeling, you know, I'm thinking little ones, you could be playing with something and just model open or, you know, some of those kind of things. But not saying, okay, now you push open. You know what I mean? So it's more of that, like, spontaneous communication that comes from them.
- [12:12]
B
Exactly. And I. And a good rule of thumb is watch what they're doing and just model what you think they might be saying in the moment. And then if you do see them showing you communication, whether it's through reaching or maybe they're excited and they start to show that with their body, or even if they get frustrated, just giving them that acknowledgment. Oh, I hear you. I think you might be angry and modeling that word on the device. Or it's time to go. Like, let's. We got our shoes on. I'm gonna push. Go. Those are things that we can do. And in very simple ways. I always tell families, too, and teams when they're starting. You don't have to model every single word that. I mean, you know, people get a lot of type A people in our field, and I think they get hung up on that and just know that it's okay. It's just. It's okay. Even if you're modeling the same word over and over again. That's still exposure. That is still opportunities for them to learn.
- [13:07]
A
I think that takes the pressure off too, because if I think, okay, I'm. I'm sitting with the child playing, and we're playing with the cars, and I am still learning how to navigate their device, because every child maybe has a slightly different setup or a different app. So I've heard my paraprofessionals in the past say, like, oh, my gosh, I feel like I need time to just sit and, like, mess around with it. And I think that's how kids feel too. When we talk about kids that are maybe going in and repetitively pushing buttons or it doesn't. It seems random. I've heard more and more talk like, that's babbling. That's exploring their language, which is their device. But the pressure can be off of us to feel like we have to model full sentences. Or, you know, we could just look around, and when we finally find it, we can just be like, car. Oh, you're playing with a car. Or the car's going down. And that narrating. Narrating the day in, like, simple, simple language.
- [14:07]
B
Another quick strategy I'll sometimes tell especially pairs or staff, is listen to yourself. Find a word that you say a lot. And so sometimes that's something like, good job, or let's go, or what's next? If you find yourself saying the same word, find that on the device, because that means there's gonna be a lot of language opportunities for them to hear it and see it. AAC is one of the only languages where we expect someone to use it without us also fluently using it ourselves. And so if for someone learning that new language, it'd be like us going to Spain or France and then only speak, even though we see the other language, we're only speaking English, we're not going to become fluent in that language. We might have a few words we get and pick up here and there, but we learn language naturally through context, in exposure over time. So the more they can hear it, the more they can see it in different contexts, the faster they're going to acquire that language.
- [15:01]
A
Yeah, and that really made sense when you said being in Spain. What if someone was just quizzing you, like, how do you say blue? How do you say, you know, car? And it might be that quick recall once you learn it. But to really, really understand, it's probably like any other language. You have to be immersed and hear it and see it in context.
- [15:24]
B
Exactly.
- [15:25]
A
So good. So let's back up a little bit. Who's a good candidate for a robust, robust AAC device? And are there any prerequisites?
- [15:35]
B
So let's answer that last question first and the I'll answer it with another question which is are they breathing? And if they are breathing, then they are a candidate for Robust AAC. There's a great graphic. I think it's Kate McLaughlin who shares the graphic on social media from the AAC coach. But she, she put it so well, because if they're breathing, then they need access to robust language. They don't just need access to a few words, they need access to all the words so that they can acquire language. This, the ceiling of language is only as high at which we aim, right? So if we only give access to five words, that's the most they're going to be able to acquire. And they need the same amount, if not more exposure than some of their peers because we know they get less opportunities to model and hear that, hear those words in context. So the qualifications again, are they breathing? They can have access to robust aac, but someone who might benefit from it is a little bit more complicated because I think most people think AAC is for someone who is minimally speaking or non speaking. I tweak that definition when I talk about it because I really go back to. It is for anyone. We all use forms of aac, right? We used a form of AAC in an email few days ago. And we, we write, we text, we talk to people through forms of AAC all the time. Someone who's going to benefit from robust AAC devices would be someone whose speech needs are not met in some capacity. It is someone who cannot consistently or reliably use spoken words to meet their communication needs. That could be because they have speech sound errors that results in decreased intelligibility or, or perhaps they're just dysregulated. I've had a lot of autistic adults reach out to me just asking for free apps or apps to support their communication in certain contexts because those contexts result in significant dysregulation. So that could be consistent or it could be temporary. I've had a few pediatric patients who only use AAC when they're medically fragile and they need some support for, for breathing treatments or something. And they, or they have maybe a passy mirror that isn't capped all the time. Something along those lines where it's temporary so it's fluid. It's not something. It's anytime. Your, your, your communication needs cannot be Met through speech.
- [18:06]
A
Okay. That made me think of a student I had a few years ago, and he was three and a half, or four, I think he turned four. And he was severely apraxic. He knew everything he wanted to say. It just, you know, going from his thoughts, his brain, to the motor planning of his articulators in his mouth, nothing would come out like he had planned. And so he was highly unintelligible. And it. And it was kind of like vowels, you know, just kind of. It sounded like jargon or grunting sometimes. But he would, you know, point and do all these gestures to try to make his needs known. But other kids don't always pick up on that or you kind of know the gist of what he's talking about. So we trialed an AAC device with him. And I was in just a session with him and another child, and he was like, pointing to his hair. He kept pointing his hair over and over. And I'm like, oh, you got a haircut. And he was like, nodding like, yeah. And he was like, all excited and kind of squealing. And I was like, well, we have circle time when we go back to class. Do you want to tell everybody? And he's like, let me know, like, yes without saying yes. And so we just. All we did was like, programmed in a simple share, like, I got a haircut. And he waited and waited. And then I told his teacher, like, I. He wants to share something with everybody. And he clicked it, and everyone was just looking at him like, wow. And he was laughing so hard and so proud. And it was like, okay. He has so much to say. And people might say, well, if you. If he uses a device, then he's not going to want to talk. And I think that's just a huge myth. So what do you think of that?
- [20:00]
B
Yeah. So in general, kids and anyone will use the. The least restrictive method to communicate those needs. Right. And again, we all kind of use this when we think about how do we use body language throughout our day, right. If it's. If we are maybe not supposed to use speech, we might use some body language, right? We. We use the least restrictive method. And the same is true for someone with aac. And I think we really need to honor all forms of communication that myth out that they're going to stop speaking. I even have some, just a few. I can say clinically, I have never seen it completely eliminate or decrease speech for someone. And the research supports that it only increase. Can increase the spoken words that someone might say. So I Understand, as a mom of three, I understand why there's that fear, but it really comes back to, would I rather have my child frustrated and having communication breakdowns, or would I really want to support their language development? And we know that AAC supports that. So I think know that the research says that it doesn't hinder speech development. And even in some of my teens and young adults that choose to use AAC over speech in certain circumstances, I'm honoring that authenticity and letting them choose the method. I always joke too. There's a. The generation now where they're sitting next to each other texting like they're on a date, and they're just sitting next to each other texting. I'm like, that's a form of aac, right? They're choosing that they don't want to use spoken words. So if they have that freedom, we need to offer that freedom to an AAC user as well. So. So, yeah, that's my thoughts on it.
- [21:48]
A
Yeah, I love that. Why do you think it's important to presume competence when a child's beginning their AAC journey?
- [21:57]
B
Yeah. So again, the ceiling is only as high as which we aim. Right. So if we presume to think that they have limitations there, then we are limiting the, the boundless potential that they have with AAC and, and language. And. And again, there's a really great graphic and I'll find it and link it in the show notes because I cannot remember the source, but it talks about how that that perception drives expectation and expectation then circulates back to competence. And it's this, this ever this evolution in this circle of how perception drives how we think of someone, and then how we think of someone allows for additional opportunities or lack there of. And then those opportunities then drive how they learn. And then that learning then drives people's perception again. So when we think about that, if we limit that ability and we don't presume competence, there can be a lot of damage done. If we presume competence, presume potential, and look at giving them access, we are not, we're not doing harm. And that is what we are charged to do in our roles is do no harm and provide supports to help them access the full potential. And so that's why I think it's really important. I think that when we're learning this new language, we have to consider that it takes time. It takes babies 12 months of hearing language across their entire day before they're using spoken words. So if we haven't given the good old college try and we know that we're not giving as many opportunities on an AAC device as these little babies developing spoken words, then we're not really being fair to them and understanding their full potential if they don't have those same opportunities. So it's, it's super important to presume confidence. And you know, there's the new Disney movie Out of My Mind. And I think that's such a good example. Right. We, we don't know. We don't know. And there's so many AAC users out there that say it just took someone believing in me for me to really access communication and, and be who I am today. So be that person. Truly be that person for someone.
- [24:16]
A
Yeah. And I love, that's why I love bringing ideas, people like you on the show to share some of these ways to make it a little less intimidating or to take off some of those myths that we used to think. And especially when you have a three year old coming in and, and you probably have experienced this too as an SLP like me. The two things parents want when they come in, at least in the school setting are I want my child to talk and I want to potty train because those are just like the two huge things. And so thank you for sharing the information about research showing that it's not going to hinder language. And I always think too, when they find things that they like and they're pressing the button, they're hearing that word modeled out loud. If, you know, if it's a speech generating device over and over and that's only going to help with exposure.
- [25:12]
B
Yeah, there's a, I do a presentation about stimming in AAC because a lot of people want to discourage the use of babbling and exploring on devices because again, it's not, it's distracting to the classroom or it's not what we think they should be saying right now. Or maybe we should take down the vocabulary because that's too many words. They're not using it appropriately. Right. That word appropriately. And you know, I know we're going to talk about gestalt language processors probably. So I think it kind of leads into that conversation because even someone who is a GLP who uses aac, they're hold apart learners. So when they're exploring that device, that is an opportunity for them to learn and to see and hear all of those words on different pages and different contexts in different sound order and all of that makes a difference. So I had, I had a, I had a really good example of that. The other Day where the team was like, I think it's too many words. And I said, let's just leave it open for a little while longer. And then, sure enough, two weeks later, they came back to me and said, oh, my God, she's put an entire sentence together. And I was thinking to myself, we wouldn't have done if we wouldn't have given her that opportunity. And she advocated for herself. As soon as they tried to limit it and turn on a feature called vocabulary builder to hide some buttons, they. She was not happy. And I was like, this is her experience. This is her telling us. This is her sharing. She wants access to those words. So I think, you know, thinking through that, I know it can feel intimidating for us. It can feel like they're not learning. But making sure we give them that flexibility to have time to explore, to babble to, to see what their device looks like is important. And this is true. You can see this happening if you give a peer in a generative classroom. I do a lot of, you know, just days where. Where they're doing inclusivity days, or they're just like, what does this look like? And I'll give a device cold to a third grader. And they're doing the same thing, Tara. They're. They're playing around on it. You give it to a para. They're playing around it. You just said earlier in the interview, right, where they have to say, I have to play with it. Yes, you have to play with it. Then they need to play with it.
- [27:22]
A
Yeah, yeah. And oh, my gosh, that's such a great point, because I can picture it with peers. Same thing happens with, you know, if I bring in a visual schedule, like, the peers are all over it and are curious and kind of want to know what it's all about. And that's exactly what us adults have to do with kids that have different devices. We have to go in and figure out where everything is. And you might see something funny and press it and laugh. You know, like, you're just explaining, exploring and. Yeah. So when people are saying, well, she just keeps pressing Culver's over and over, and it's like, well, probably means something to her. And. And sometimes with that, too, you know, they. Oh, she stims on Culver's. But sometimes just simply acknowledging it, like, oh, yeah, Culver's. I love Culver's. Do you love Culver? You know, just kind of having that little conversation about it or just acknowledging it. It doesn't even have to be a. A question. Just Acknowledging. So. And it's funny, too, with when you're talking AAC presuming competence and all of this. Over 25 years of teaching autistic kids. I know every child's learning trajectory is different. So some kids might pick up really fast, and some kids might need months and months, and they're making, like, these little baby steps that we don't even see with the naked eye, you know? But then all of a sudden, they'll press something or they'll find something. I had a student that was three. He was brand new with a device, and kind of the one type of kid that looks like he's maybe stimming on it. And all of a sudden we were doing an activity, and he's like, going in. I don't even know how he got there. And all of a sudden it says, this is boring. I was like, I think he's serious about this. I don't think he's. I don't think that was an accident. I'm like, okay, let's switch up what we're doing. Let's do something else.
- [29:15]
B
And.
- [29:16]
A
And it was super great. And then things will pop out. I had another student who was doing well, learning, and then all of a sudden, we're at snack one day, no one's near him, and he presses his. The sentence, and he writes, my dad has a pig nose. And he made all of us laugh out loud. We were like, where did that come from? And he had this little smirk, and he knew he was being hilarious. And that just came out of nowhere. Like, no one taught him that. It was just him getting comfortable with his device and then eventually getting to the point where he could come up with some of his own thoughts.
- [29:56]
B
That's the goal for everyone, is that autonomous communication. Right. There's no way for me to teach. My dad has a pig nose. Like, that does not come up. No. If we're sitting down and. And we're doing speech therapy, I hope. I hope that that doesn't. Right. But. But that's how we. We want to get to flexible grammar, to flexible autonomous communication where you're sharing any thought with any partner at any place, anytime.
- [30:21]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So we chatted a little bit about a little teaser about Gestalt language processing because you've talked a lot about how sometimes programming the device might be a little different. So what do you need to consider when it comes to a Gestalt language processor on aac?
- [30:43]
B
So I think the first thing I just in case someone is new, it's such a hot topic in the, in the field and in the, in the social media world that I think a lot of people know what it means. But just in case someone is new to that term. Gestalt language processing is a way that some individuals acquire language. Goes back to Barry Prizant and colleagues who talked about how there's kind of two ways to develop language. One is a bottom up way and that's how most people think about language development. We have baby sounds and then those become single words and then those words are combined and it's a very bottom up way to learn language. There's another type of language development, Gestalt language development, where it's very much a hold apart, top down approach to learning language where the early stages are focused on meaning around intonation and episodic events, so high emotion events, where we're acquiring language in what we would call chunks. Those chunks could be short in single words or sounds, but they could also be really long. And in those early stages we're focusing on the soundtrack, the intonation of how things are formed instead of the words themselves. So those individuals, like I like to say different language processing style potential means different language potential strategies for those individuals. So the first thing I always tell people is what we talked about earlier. If their communication needs are not met because they are not reliably able to access those spoken words, they still are a candidate for aac. That's regardless of how you process language. So the individuals, if you've identified them as a gestalt language processor, learning through chunks, learning through media, oftentimes we would say they have delayed and immediate echolalia. Many times they are autistic. That's not that they don't have to be. It is not synonymous, it is not a diagnosis of itself. It's just a natural way someone they process language. And so we just know that individual autistic individuals can process language this way. So if they use an AAC system, we might need to think about other supports. Because AAC language systems are set up for the analytic language processor. They're set up very much with single words, single icon pictures, core words. Those words we recycle throughout our day are on the front. And those words unfortunately are words that we aren't necessarily going to see tied to meaning. If someone is in early gestalt language stages of language development. So we probably could do a whole episode on just gestalt language development. But the goal is still the same. The journey is still to get them to autonomous communication and flexible grammar. So the kind of two boats that I talk about are if, if you, if you decided I think this is a Gestalt language processor because I've seen that they have echolalia and I, I really think that that that applies to them. If they're still not understood, if they're still having communication breakdowns, if they still aren't able to meet their needs consistently with spoken words, you might still consider them as a candidate for aac. So we can support them because we can put those, we can put those gestalts that echolalia how they're learning. We can put those on an AAC system and te alongside the language within the system itself. The other boat is if they have, if they are non speaking, but we think they're a Gestalt language processor. Someone in this boat might have, might be replaying media in little chunks. They might have some jargon or things that are rich in intonation but not easily understood. They, they might be highly musical and they might act out entire scenes. So again, just that hold apart thinking in general. If they are doing some of those, you might consider them a Gestalt language processor. And then in those cases you might have a little bit of a harder time. But you might look at potential gestalts that are unspoken. What could those be and how could we represent those on an AAC device? So that's kind of like the, the, the. What did I hit? Three minutes, three minute rundown of, of how we could support them. But it is, it's hard because it's. You've got AAC understanding and then GOP understanding and how do those intersect and.
- [35:20]
A
Then in that intersection is like that child specific gestalt or things that they're interested in. And it's really interesting when, when you have kids who language processors and they start using aac it's kind of like you said. If I had a student who fell once and she said we all fall down and she's not going to go in her device and find we and all and fall down. But if that phrase, if she, if you're noticing she's using that a lot for different things throughout the day or that might be something you program in and you can model it back to her and you know something like that where she can hear language that she uses. So it's really interesting. Would you ever put in like let's say I had a student years ago that had no words for anything that he needed no words, but he would sing an entire Rascal flat song Life is a Highway when he was in a swing and he had all the words. And I think that's confusing to people. Like, well, he can say all these words, but, you know, he's not understanding each individual word. For someone like that, Would you put into the device some of those favorite songs or things?
- [36:46]
B
I. Anytime I think someone has something that they're trying to communicate, I would put it in the device. So if it's. If it's a song, then absolutely. 1. You know, before I even really understood and knew about sign language processing, I was using a lot of music therapy techniques because I knew music therapy was a total brain process. And for. It helped some of my autistic patients and, like, kids that I would support, it would help them access language in ways that. That I couldn't when I was just speaking. And so they actually called me the singing SLP at the hospital because I would just sing. I would sing my whole session because I knew it would help them connect. And so the same thing is true for someone if they can. If you can hear it, and we can honor it on the device, I think absolutely. And you can also give them that autonomy. Do you want to add this to your device? Right. It's a simple question. Let's give them the choice. And for some of my AAC users, the answer is yes. For some, if they can do it with spoken words and they don't want to, the answer is no. And I think that's fine. I think really for the support strategies is what I want people to really hone in on when we look at supporting GLPs on AAC. Because it is a dance. You know, we're still teaching them a new language. So it's not to say we want to override the main page. It's not to say that we shouldn't model some of those. Those core words and phrases that if it connects with them, great. I've had some GLPs that are actually in stage three and four, and I hand them the device, and it just unlocks everything. I won't know that until they trial it. But I also have seen kids where we're stuck in core approaches, and we're modeling and modeling go and remodeling stuff, and it's just not connecting or they overlearn motor patterns, and they're saying, I want goldfish, and they don't really want the goldfish. That's just what they know to say. And. And we're doing the same thing and the same approach for everyone, thinking that it's going to help them get to natural language. And like you mentioned, Tara, it's individualized. So individualized in those early stages. So for someone who's not speaking or minimally speaking, we need to be thinking about what could a potential gestalt be on the device. We need to find things, as I mentioned, those in those early stages, it's very emotionally based on what's going to stick. And so we want things that are, I like to say, sticky, right? We want gestalts that are going to be sticky for them. Things that are either going to be tied to an emotional event. Maybe some of those clips on the media that they've rewound a few times, and they're like, oh, this is. This is. I'm processing this. What does this mean? And I'm doing it over and over again. Maybe we add that to the device. Even if it's just an audio clip of that, it's honoring all their communication, like we talked about earlier, and then doing detective work to see how they're using communication naturally. And that's a big shift. That's a huge shift for families and for teams because we've been taught. I know I was. I don't know if in grad school this is how you were taught, but it was like we sit at a table, we pull out our flashcards, or we pull out our toys, and then we just show them that, and we label and we label. We label, we label. We build their. Their vocabulary so that they can start to learn what these words mean by themselves, and then they'll combine them. And that's just not how gestalt language. Some of our gestalt language processors are getting to natural language. They're getting stuck because they have all these single words and we can't break them apart. So trying to avoid strategies, some of which are really hard to break because they've been ingrained in us. Like, I used to use closed statements all the time because I could say ready, set, and then my autistic child would say, go. And I was like, oh, yes, they said something on their own, But I don't know about you, but I would see them get stuck. And they could never generalize it and say it on their own. They could initiate it. Unless I started the prompt of ready, set, then they could say it. So what we know now is that closed statements are not going to help get us to natural language connections and development. They can show that they can complete it and they can learn it in a single context, but they're not repeating that and generalizing it so looking at phrases they can break apart, looking at strategies that are like we mentioned, acknowledgement things that can give them sticky things to grab and hold on to for a variety of language functions you mentioned, like sharing information, whether it's I got a haircut or this is awesome, I hate this, your outfit's disgusting. Whatever it is, having those opportunities, that's the road that's going to get them to, to those natural language connections and more flexible grammar.
- [41:32]
A
Yeah. And all of this, it's, it's so much, you know, for people listening that are maybe not really in charge of aac, it's like, okay, it's a lot, but all you have to do is just keep learning and keep that growth mindset and now that you know a little bit, then just seek out more or, you know, follow AAC innovations and see what Laura puts out there so that you learn little bits and, and then it will make more and more sense and become more intuitive, I think. So.
- [42:04]
B
It's, it's micro learning is like my favorite thing. And that's why again, why I started social media, because I think, you know, some research shows that you can only take three things maximum away from a training. So we have all these traditional trainings, day long workshops, two day workshops, big huge conferences. And the research shows we can only take three things away. But when we, we share on social media, when we share these opportunities for asynchronous learning, it allows for micro learning to happen so that people, you can meet people where they're at, like, okay, I can take that thing away. I can try to model something one gestalt today or I can try to model this one word today that I'm saying a lot.
- [42:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's that micro learning I think is huge because then people get a win, you get a quick win, you get some confidence like, okay, I can do this one thing and then when that feels comfortable and automatic, then I can seek out like, okay, what would be the next thing I could learn and do? And think if you did that throughout the school year, where you would be by the end of the year, by the start of next year, it's, it's all these little micro learnings. I love that word. So we already just.
- [43:19]
B
Yeah. And many goals for yourself. Right. Whether if you're a team or a family, just create like a mini goal. Like whether it's one for the week or one for the month, give yourself a mini goal and start there.
- [43:29]
A
And if you're the teacher or the SLP and you have paraprofessionals like, this is a great way to teach them too, because we don't get time to do big, long trainings. And so being able to teach one little. One little tidbit, one little concept. Okay. And then people will walk away going, okay, I can do that. You know, you don't have to know everything about AAC or GLPs, but if we're all gonna thoughtfully model a word that will get us used to the device, and, I mean, that would be a great goal that could last for weeks to really get comfortable with it. So that's awesome. I love that.
- [44:11]
B
And I can plug. I don't know exactly when this will be released, but I can give you one little teaser. There's something coming in the horizon that's going to be a free resource. So if someone's like, she said some stuff about glp, but an aac, but I have no idea like this. Maybe, maybe not. I would love to learn more. Go to meaningful speech.com and we'll be sharing some exciting stuff in the upcoming weeks.
- [44:36]
A
Yay. Oh, my gosh. Okay, now I'm like, super, super interested. So we already talked about modeling and AAC and why it's important. Why is it also important to do that with Gestalt language processors?
- [44:53]
B
So it's the same reasons that we would model for an analytic language processor. It's this dance of trying to meet what we think they're already saying, but also helping them naturally grow their language and giving them that avenue to be heard and see how language can really make a difference for them and they can use that language to communicate to the world around them.
- [45:16]
A
Yeah, I love it. It's the same. It's just, you know, there might be a couple little different ways that you tweak the device or the things that you add in based on being a GLP versus an analytic language processor. But the modeling and the reasons are all the same.
- [45:32]
B
I like to tell people really just about where they're at, where they're at in their language journey and figuring that out. Once you figure that out and figuring out what support strategies they need, you're. You're on the road.
- [45:42]
A
You make it sound so easy. So I know everyone's going to want to follow you. We talked about Instagram AAC Innovations, and we will link it in the show notes. Is there any else that you want to mention, places they can find you, or are you mainly a Instagram girl?
- [46:00]
B
That. That is my main. I. I am quite busy with three kids, a new puppy, and a full time job and I still actually work sometimes at the hospital too. So I I have a lot of hats that I wear. But I do I love my network and my family that I have created and connected with on social media. So that is probably if you want to see and hear more from me, that's the place to go. I also sometimes will try to share on my stories about the chaos that is my family, but if you have specific questions, you can also reach me via email@aac innovations01gmail.com awesome.
- [46:37]
A
Thank you so much Laura for sharing everything and I know everyone's going to want to listen to this one a couple times so they can take it all in.
- [46:45]
B
It's.
- [46:45]
A
It's so good. So thank you so much.
- [46:48]
B
Thanks so much for having me. Tara, it's been a pleasure.
- [46:51]
A
I'm sending a big virtual hug your way because you just finished another episode of the Autism Little Learners podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. If you have had success with any of the strategies that you learned about in this podcast, I would love to hear from you. Send me a DM on Instagram or Facebook at Autism Little Learners don't forget to grab your free visual support starter set by going to autismlittlelearners.com visuals and always remember to find the good in every day.