B (2:19)

Ravioli specifically.

A (2:20)

Probably because you're Italian.

B (2:22)

That could be it. Sicilian.

A (2:24)

Oh, whoops.

B (2:25)

Sicilian. All right, so trivia ready? Let's see if you can answer this one.

A (2:32)

Okay.

B (2:33)

Approximately how many teachers are there in.

A (2:37)

The U.S. oh, my gosh.

B (2:40)

Okay, now hold on. Okay, there's 51 million K through 12 students to teach.

A (2:48)

Oh, okay. I am the worst at math, so I'm gonna say 200,000.

B (2:55)

Nope, that's a lot more than that. That would be a lot of students. For each of those teachers, the public schools have a total of about 3.2 million full time students. Or, I'm sorry, 3.2 million full time teachers according to the federal statistics. And it sounds like a lot until you consider that there's 51 million K through 12 students to teach. Now, second part to this, let's see if your math skills.

A (3:23)

Hold on. My math sucks. That was a really bad guess.

B (3:27)

You proved it.

A (3:27)

That was a bad guess.

B (3:29)

All right, let's see if you can redeem yourself. This is kind of fun. You, like, killed me on trivia once, so this is kind of my redemption. All right, ready?

A (3:38)

Okay.

B (3:39)

So out of those teachers, the vast majority of them are women. Okay, what percent do you think that is?

A (3:47)

What percent are women?

B (3:48)

Yes.

A (3:49)

95%.

B (3:50)

You're closer this time. You're a lot closer. It's 77%. But now here's another fact. More than 54% of the principals are women also.

A (4:00)

Oh, okay.

B (4:02)

It's pretty cool.

A (4:03)

That's awesome. Because I remember back in the day it was only men that were principals. Yeah.

B (4:08)

So that's pretty neat.

A (4:09)

So this is good. All right, well, great trivia, Jason. Thank you.

B (4:13)

I stumped Tara.

A (4:15)

Totally. Totally. Okay, are you ready for our questions from our listeners?

B (4:21)

I am. Are you?

A (4:22)

I think so. They submitted some tough ones this time.

B (4:26)

All right, so the first question is from Lauren. What is the best way to teach playfulness in a kid that only spends time with adults? This student rarely engages in any play. Also from Rachel. Help. I have a very young student who doesn't even demonstrate exploratory play. He's got a very short tolerance for anything and quickly becomes aggressive. Where should we start?

A (4:52)

All right, well, Lauren, first, I get it. It is really hard to teach playfulness. And Rachel, I've been in your shoes with students with short tolerance for new things and aggression. And I'm putting these two question together because actually the answer or the start of an answer, things to think about are really similar. So first, you both want to talk to the parents, which you probably already have. But talking to the parents, Lauren, about does that child have anything at home that they play with? Right. Or even something that they touch and throw or touch and drop, Anything along those lines, because that gives you something to build on and find some activities that are kind of similar to that but more in a playful sense. So if students like dropping things, think of like an infant that's in a high chair. Jason. And they like to play that game where they drop something off and you pick it up.

B (5:57)

Right.

A (5:57)

Or the kids that we all hear that dreaded sound of a basket of toys or objects Dumping and they crash all over. And those kids are in that exploratory stage of play, meaning they use their senses to learn about objects. So they're maybe not playing with the toys in the basket, but they're dumping it. And it's kind of a sensory experience.

B (6:22)

Okay, my. When I. I'm going to cut you out for a quick second.

A (6:25)

Okay.

B (6:26)

With all the stuff we talk about, I've heard about, like, the kids doing the dumping. Yeah. Putting stuff. Like if you got a hole in a bucket, you drop. Or that's a bed, a hole in a jar or something, and you drop it in there. And then kids lining up Matchbox cars. I have not heard about children that don't want to use the toys, play with the toys. Like, I haven't heard that part of it yet.

A (6:51)

Like, even is that common, it can happen. I wouldn't say it's super common, but it can happen. Where, you know, there could be objects there and they're just. They don't even touch them. Right. And it sounds like that's kind of what Rachel's dealing with, what Lauren's dealing with. Like, they can't find much that's motivating them as far as play and toys. And so one of the things I'm going to talk to you about in just a minute is people play. But first, when we're talking about toys or objects, really start by getting down to their level. And let's say they're even just picking up a car. They're not pushing it or playing with it in any kind of functional way. But if they're picking something up or showing some interest in something, get down at their level and copy them. Do what they're doing. Even if they're stimming by spinning the wheel on a car or lining things up, get down and follow. Do what they're doing, because that's going to get their attention. They're going to be like, oh, my gosh, this teacher is doing what I'm doing. She's sharing my interest. So that can kind of get their attention. But I think with Lauren, your student's probably not even doing any of those things. So if you have a student that's not doing anything at all with objects, I would start with what the Hanon center calls people play. And so these are games that you're going to need to introduce. And same thing for Rachel with the short tolerance. So it needs to be something quick and fun and easy. And usually if it includes, like, the whole body, it can be even more Fun. So people games are something like playing row your boat. And you're sitting, picture yourself sitting face to face with the student. Maybe you're legs are out and your feet are touching the students and you're holding hands and you're just doing the quick game of row, row, row your boat. And some kids really like it when you're like wiggly and kind of rough housing a little bit. So that can be something that you can start with, like just doing a really quick game of row your boat. Or you can do games like putting the child in a laundry basket. And yes, you can do this at school. Putting them in a laundry basket if they like it. I mean, if they don't like it, obviously we're not gonna do it. But then you do ready, set, go. And we push them around and push them around, wiggle, stop, and get at their level and see if they have any kind of excitement or reaction. I think a lot of kids love movement, and something like that is gonna make them giggle or at least maybe make a noise that indicates like, that was fun. Let's do it again.

B (9:49)

I'm gonna go sit in the laundry basket after this podcast. You could push me around.

A (9:53)

I'll push you down the stairs.

B (9:55)

Yeah, that's what I figured.

A (9:57)

Okay, so people games. Now you can find people games in this booklet by the Hannon Center. I'll link it in the show notes. And it's all about how to engage with people versus objects. And a lot of times people play happens before toy play. So I think for both of you, kind of backing up and really looking into people play and see if you can find some of these back and forth activities that your students would like.

B (10:29)

That's awesome. All right, let's go to the next question. It's from Christina. Christina says, I would love some ideas for goals about expanding play skills while honoring autistic play. Play in the child's interests.

A (10:44)

All right, well, Christina, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the two words, child's interests. And I'm going to explain to Jason what autistic play means and honoring that. So Jason brought up, like, maybe lining toys up or, you know, kids who spin the wheels on a car or spin toys. So the definition of play really is play is joyful. Play is something you like to do. And so what's play for one kid might not be play for another. Does that make sense?

B (11:23)

Yeah, it's things I like and my friends don't.

A (11:26)

Yeah. Yeah. So the same thing goes for people who are Autistic, if spinning the wheel on a car, lining them up makes them happy, that is okay. That is their play. Now, we don't want to introduce different play activities just to make them play in a typical way. Just because neurotypically developing brains play in this certain way, it doesn't mean we need to force autistic people to play in that same way. However, if we can broaden their horizons and give them, introduce them to like a variety of different play activities that they might discover something new that they like.

B (12:11)

Okay?

A (12:11)

And so that can really build their play skills, which building your play skills helps with cognition skills, it helps with language skills, social skills. So there is a lot to be said about expanding play skills, but we're going to do it really gently and we're going to start, like I said in that previous question, with going to try to join in and copy what they're doing in their play. This is going to help us build a relationship and really learn how that child plays because over time then we can introduce activities that kind of align with their interests. Another thing, you know, we really don't look at it as replacing their preferred way to play, but just like I said, helping them discover other play activities that they might like. So continue to allow them to have plenty of time to, to play in the ways that bring them joy.

B (13:05)

Okay, next question is from Sarah. I am just lost. Honestly. I am a 17 year veteran SPED teacher coming from transition. It's my first year in an Autism Integrated Modified Curriculum K through 2 classroom. I only have 6 kids but with the behaviors, my para and I are on the struggle bus. My trainer and supervisor want me to use foods as reinforcers and I'm not 100% on board after educating myself via autistic adults. How do I teach them to do school when they have zero motivation to do work? And in response to that question, Jamie said, you're not the only one. I'm a 12 year veteran teacher and I'm struggling this year with behaviors. I have two paras and we have 11 students total and we literally do nothing but manage behaviors all day. It seems like I'm ready to help them start learning more of their goals, but they haven't mastered the bare minimum of do school yet either.

A (14:09)

Alright ladies. I have also noticed an increased occurrence of behaviors and decreased attention spans since the pandemic. And I've heard that from a lot of you out there in the autism little learners community. We're all dealing with the same thing. So the best advice that I have is to start to get back to those basics of regulation and relationships. And that might mean that teaching academic skills takes the back burner for a little while. And Sarah, I have to say that I agree with you about the overuse of food reinforcers, and I think you're right on the right track with your thinking on that topic. As far as regulation goes, talk to your OT for support and just make it a priority to try to create a calm environment. Think about things like lighting, playing calming, music in the background. Maybe that's happening for the whole day now just to try to get that regulation level in check and have sensory tools available throughout the classroom. And part of regulation can also be looking at setting up the physical classroom and the schedule so that you can divide and conquer. So you might need to make some changes here, even though the year has already started. So for Jamie, who has 11 students, maybe have five separate areas in the classroom and have an adult oversee and manage a play area, sensory area, and book area where they can coach students and make sure there aren't issues going on between students. And there should be activities that they can attempt to do or do independently in those areas. And then the other two adults can work with small groups of two to three children and at a time. And I know this can be really difficult with 11 students. That's a lot for three adults. So maybe sit down and brainstorm ways that you guys can divide and conquer. For now, and for both of you, I really think you should request more para support. In classrooms. Like you're describing, with a lot of behaviors and high support needs, you really do need a ratio closer to two children to one adult. And sometimes it can be the only way to get things to run smoothly with certain groups of students. So if that is just absolutely not a possibility, sit down with your staff and brainstorm some ideas on how you can divide and conquer. And the other piece is choosing activities that are really fun and motivating. And I'm sure you're doing that or at least trying to learn what your students like. So use favorite toys and activities that involve special interests at first and keep demands to a minimum and just have fun together in order to build that positive relationship. And I give you permission to back off the demands and make a positive connection a priority, because once you get regulation and connection in place, then you can fly with your classroom. It will run a lot smoother.

B (17:19)

So last year you created a re. I think it was last year you created a resource where I helped you build a calming tent. So is that something A tool that they could use. I mean, if the kids are, I. I don't know the right way to say disregulated. Disregulated. Okay, thank you. If all that's going on is that like something maybe you could put them in there and just give them a book to flip through or toys to play with and they're kind of on their own and they don't have the visuals around them to distract maybe, or. I don't know.

A (17:52)

Yeah, no, Jason, I love that idea because when you're looking at that physical setup of the classroom, finding a space where kids can retreat to if they're overwhelmed, you know, at first, they're not going to know to go there. Well, some kids naturally seek it out, but if it's an option and you have some really motivating or nice sensory tools in there, having a calming tent or a calming corner, kind of a do it yourself tent that you can put together like Jason's talking about, if this is something you're interested in, I have plans written up for that. And Jason has a video tutorial for how to set it up. So contact me, shoot me an email, autismlittlelearnersmail.com and I can put you in touch with that link or that product. But anyway, the short answer is yes, a calming corner could be really, really helpful in a classroom where you have a lot of dysregulation.

B (18:57)

Also, just wanted to touch on, you know, the post pandemic topic. I can. Well, I have seen it in your face when you come home from school. Just destroyed some days just because of how much effort you have to put in. And you've described the behaviors and it's just. It sounds like a total different world.

A (19:18)

Yeah, I mean, for all of us in special education, we're used to behaviors and this is part of our job, but the level of behaviors and the level of inattention has just been really difficult and a lot of burnout in the world of special education and I think teaching in general. So with Jason saying that you guys give yourself grace if you're in a situation like these two are and really take a deep breath and take the pressure off of yourself. And I think that's what focusing on regulation and positive relationship can do for you. You know, I'm not saying don't implement their iep, you know, maybe talk with your supervisor and saying, can we slow down before we speed up and get back to the basics to help things get under control and help the regulation overall get better in the classroom.

B (20:23)

Our next Question is from Jen. Now I've got a question. I'm going to ask this, but then I have. I need some clarification. Okay. Do you have any tips for a student who has very loud vocal stims? I want them to be able to stim because I know their body needs it. But it also overstimulates the other children. We use a weighted vest and it helps with physical stims. What does she mean, vocal stims?

A (20:46)

Okay. He's like, what's a stim? Okay, so I'm gonna reference some adults who used to be my students when they were younger that he. That Jason knows. So several years ago, I did a epic spin class. So it was a special needs spin class. And the adults that came were most of my former students from when I had them at the elementary level. And so I don't know if you remember Jason, but some of my former students who are in that group that were non speaking made kind of noises sometimes, like maybe groaning or moaning or high pitched. You know, it just depends on each kid. So those are vocal stims. It can be a sound someone makes over and over or just like a long, drawn out sound that sometimes it means someone's happy and sometimes it means they're getting anxious and upset. And so vocal stims, you can imagine in the classroom can be disruptive if they're loud because the other kids.

B (21:58)

Okay, I get it now.

A (22:00)

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah. Okay. Did you have another question about that or was that it?

B (22:05)

No, we're gonna stop there.

A (22:06)

Okay. Okay, so. And then physical stims, I'll just explain that while we're here, that would be like kids who are flapping or spinning, you know, doing some of those things with their body. And so Jen says that a weighted vest, it's exactly what it sounds. It's a vest that fits kids that has something in there that weights it down a little bit. And just having that pressure, it's almost like someone giving you a bear hug or imagine. Right now I'm going to press down on your shoulders.

B (22:38)

Oh.

A (22:39)

Oh, stop it. You guys can't see this. He complained. But for a lot of us, that feels really good to get that grounding right. So that's kind of what she means with the weight.

B (22:50)

All right, go ahead with Jen's.

A (22:52)

Okay. So I would definitely start by chatting with an occupational therapist again and of course, the child's parents to see if there's anything that they do or if they could brainstorm some ideas that might help. But this is a hard one because like you said, you know, the child's body needs it. And you know the old saying, like if we get try to get rid of one stim, another stim might come and replace it and it might be something even more distracting. So it's really distracting to others though, like you said, with a vocal stim that's happening like that. So definitely talk to the ot. But I would try a chewy of some type, something for the child to chew on. A lot of times they have it on a necklace. And so I have several students every year that have a chewy around their neck. I would also give some type of oral input through maybe if someone could chew gum or have a snack right before or something that's going to give that oral input. And this is where the OT is going to be the person that's the expert in this area to kind of help with. Also, do you notice any times of the day where they are not engaging in the vocal stim and what's going on during those times? And could you somehow replicate that? Things to keep in mind. Sometimes kids stim when they're overstimulated, sometimes when they're understimulated, sometimes when they're happy. Or it could be a sign of stress. So kind of identifying these with each individual student can help you get closer to some ideas that could really help. Also when you identify activities where this vocal stimming occurs in, think about managing the sensory environment. So I'm thinking like group time. We could turn off the lights or turn down the lights. We could turn down the sound of music that we're playing to kind of control the noise levels. So adjusting those could change up the sensory environment, which could help. And another idea is to increase physical activity before you're doing the learning activity. So if you are able to leave the classroom, have someone take the child for a walk and get some of that physical activity in, or bring in an exercise trampoline and have some fun jumping first and see if that physical activity kind of quenches that need for stimming. And then I would also have noise reducing headphones available for other students or a student who's really, really bothered by the sound. And hopefully that can help when you're just not able to get the vocal stem to stop. All right, well, thank you to everyone who submitted questions. I can relate to all of these questions and I'm sure many of the listeners do too. And even if I can't solve the problem for you, sometimes it just helps to talk about it and get some brainstorming going. And thanks to my husband Jason once again for being here for the Q and A episode.

B (26:15)

You're welcome.

A (26:18)

All right, have a great week and I'll see you back here next week, same time, same place.

B (26:23)

Bye everybody.

A (26:24)

Bye. I'm sending a big virtual hug your way because you just finished another episode of the Autism Little Learners Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and review. If you have had success with any of the strategies that you learned about in this podcast, I would love to hear from you. Send me a DM on Instagram or Facebook. Autismlittlelearners. Don't forget to grab your free visual support starter set by going to autismlittlelearners.com visuals and always remember to find the good in every day. It.