#80 - Autism Little Learners Membership - Member Interviews Part 2

Summary

The Autism Little Learners Podcast

Episode #80 – Autism Little Learners Membership: Member Interviews Part 2

Host: Tara Phillips
Guests: Laura Wing (Special Education Teacher & Parent), Jordan Datto (Early Childhood Special Education Teacher)
Aired: July 23, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this inspiring episode, Tara Phillips spotlights two standout members of the Autism Little Learners (ALL) Membership: Laura Wing and Jordan Datto. Both are special education teachers, and Laura brings a parent’s perspective as well. The episode dives into their journeys, challenges, and practical classroom strategies that have made a real impact on young autistic learners. The discussion centers on the power of community, evidence-based support, and creating neurodiversity-affirming, connected environments for children.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to Guests and Their Roles

[00:00 – 02:06]

• Tara introduces Jordan Datto, highlighting her active engagement in the membership community and on coaching calls.
• Jordan shares her experience teaching children ages 3–5 since 2017, noting her role often evolves year to year (itinerant, half-day, full day, and soon kindergarteners).
  • Notable quote:

    "I feel like my admin is like, yeah, just do what you want... That’s why I love you guys. Autism Little Learners, I have a community where I feel like what I'm doing is validated." – Jordan [03:01]

2. Why Jordan Joined the Membership

[03:18 – 05:41]

• Jordan describes feeling overwhelmed with changing classroom expectations and a lack of clear guidance.
• She found ALL while searching for resources and was drawn by having easy access to high-quality materials and a supportive learning community.
  • Notable quote:

    "It’s not just on Teachers Pay Teachers... I can access everything I want whenever I want for a small fee monthly, which is maybe I don’t get coffee every morning." – Jordan [03:42]

3. The Value of Community and Coaching

[05:41 – 06:41]

• Jordan explains how attending coaching calls and challenges helped her implement strategies in the classroom.
• The ALL community keeps her accountable and consistently exposes her to new (or sometimes forgotten) strategies.

4. Practical Strategies: Video Modeling Success

[07:02 – 10:28]

• Jordan highlights implementing video modeling after ALL training, specifically using a favorite toy to model transitions (e.g., coming inside after recess, handwashing, practicing toileting steps).
• Describes a successful moment when a student spontaneously followed her modeling—before she even showed them the recorded video.
  • Notable quote:

    "In your training, you’re like, just pull out a toy, like their favorite toy, and do it in the moment or whenever you can... My para’s like, Jordan, he's following you!" – Jordan [08:10]
    "It kind of takes the pressure off of the kids. They don’t have to perform." – Tara [09:46]

5. Challenges and Evolving Philosophy

[11:43 – 13:36]

• Jordan discusses that her main challenges are internal: feeling confident about her philosophy, not the students’ behaviors.
• Emphasizes the importance of respectful, neurodiversity-affirming approaches and evolving practices over time.
  • Notable quote:

    "It’s not the students that are hard. It’s you inside, feeling like you're doing the right thing." – Tara [12:25]
    "With the neurodiversity movement, I have changed how I have interacted with kids for 25 years... none of us are perfect, and we do the best we can." – Tara [12:39]

6. Advice for Prospective Members

[13:36 – 15:03]

• Jordan encourages others to join for the sense of connection and evidence-based support.
• Stresses how ALL bridges philosophical gaps that can be isolating in school settings, and that it’s equally valuable for educators and parents.
  • Notable quote:

    "I feel so connected within the membership and that missing piece... I know here that I am doing the right thing." – Jordan [13:36]

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7. Laura Wing’s Story: Teacher and Adoptive Parent

[16:57 – 23:17]

• Laura introduces herself as a special education teacher and parent from Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.
• Shares her journey teaching in different special education contexts, including launching a self-contained communication class for autistic students in March 2024.
• Powerful story of welcoming Lucas, her now-son, into their home during the pandemic, soon entering adoption. Lucas is nonverbal but communicates using multiple methods (PECS, gestures, facial expressions).
  • Notable quote:

    "He is nonverbal, we’ll say, but he does have a few words... but he is like rocking the communication methods of all kinds. ... He definitely talks with his eyes and his smile.” – Laura [19:15]
    "Our whole method is multimodal communication. Everyone asks me, is he going to talk? And I say, well, he does. He already does." – Laura [20:05]
    "Mouth words aren't the only way to communicate." – Tara [20:24]

8. Finding Autism Little Learners: Alignment and Community

[20:45 – 24:07]

• Laura joined ALL after discovering a fundamentals of communication workshop, which confirmed and enhanced her own philosophy.
• Emphasized the impact of regular face-to-face coaching calls—“worth the membership right then and there.”
  • Notable quote:

    "The fact that we can share our struggles, our successes, and people validate or give you advice... you’re listening and going, well, I could use that." – Laura [24:09]

9. Community as Lifeline

[25:07 – 26:34]

• Tara and Laura reflect on how ALL provides a vital network, especially when teachers feel isolated as the only autism specialist in their district.
  • Notable quote:

    "Sometimes special educators feel like they’re on an island." – Tara [16:02]
    "It's nice to be a part of a community of people who are like you... Not everyone understands it or gets it." – Laura [25:09]

10. Practical Applications and Successes in Laura’s Classroom

[26:50 – 31:39]

• Laura details implementing individualized visual schedules and color-coded tables for easy predictability, starting with simple routines and gradually increasing complexity.
• Describes the profound impact of the “All Done Bucket” and “Wait Mat” for transitions and teaching independence.
  • Notable quote:

    "Start with one visual... by April we put two or three... by June, all I’d say was, ‘OK, go check your schedule,’ and they’d do it independently." – Laura [26:50]
    "Kids love the Wait Mat. It has been magic." – Laura [30:34]
    “Even people who come into my class are like, wow, I can’t believe how well that works. I know. Amazing—magic.” – Laura [32:07]

11. Navigating Challenges and Rethinking Tradition

[32:27 – 39:33]

• Laura highlights adjusting expectations, taking time to observe and listen, knowing when to “step back” instead of pushing forward.
• Draws from Tara’s podcast (e.g., “Rethinking Hand-Over-Hand”) to let children lead, focus on modeling, predictable routines, and relationships.
  • Notable quote:

    "Let go of what we think should happen and just, you know, take the OWL approach: Observe, Watch, Listen. ... We don’t have to force it." – Laura [32:27]
    "Doing the same things over and over... then one day they just do it." – Laura [33:43]
    "We want them to come to school. We want them to love school." – Laura [33:43]
    "Parents are overjoyed because their child wants to go to school. They’re happy..." – Laura [35:37]

12. The Power of Flexibility and Connection

[38:01 – 39:58]

• Stories illustrating the importance of creative, student-led adaptation (e.g., switching from name tracing to preferred activities to build skills in joyful ways).
• Rethinking “power struggles;” focusing on avoiding forced compliance in favor of meaningful engagement and trusting relationships.
  • Notable quote:

    "The old way would be, well, I’m going to hand over hand and make him do this, even if he’s upset... instead of really backing up and being OK with taking the steps." – Tara [39:33]
    "It has to be a happy experience for them. Relationships—that’s the only thing that matters." – Tara [40:01]

13. Advice for Educators and Parents

[40:22 – 42:20]

• Laura’s recommendation to join ALL: invaluable resources, time-saving visuals, and supportive podcasts.
• Encourages using ALL resources not just for teachers but also for sharing with parents and paraprofessionals.
  • Notable quote:

    "Just join and it'll be one of the best investments you’ve ever made. Honestly, it’s the best monthly payment I have." – Laura [40:22]
    "You have to share the wealth. You just have to spread it because it's too good not to." – Laura [42:01]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Motivation for Membership:

  “I feel so connected within the membership and that missing piece… I know here that I am doing the right thing.” – Jordan [13:36]

• Celebrating Small Steps:

  “By the end of the year, he was washing his hands... And really interested in playing in the water in the sink.” – Jordan (about a student’s progress) [10:28]

• Philosophy of Support:

  "Let go of what we think should happen…take the OWL approach: observe, watch, listen." – Laura [32:27]

• Real Impact:

  “Parents are just overjoyed because their child wants to go to school. They’re happy, and parents are happy. ... We’ve established that in three months. In September, it’s go time!” – Laura [35:37]

• Encouragement:

  “Just join and it'll be one of the best investments you’ve ever made. … The resources at your fingertips. … It saves so much time.” – Laura [40:22]

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–02:06 – Tara introduces guests, focus of episode.
• 02:06–06:41 – Jordan’s background and joining the membership.
• 06:41–10:28 – Live classroom strategies: video modeling and visuals.
• 10:28–13:36 – Internal challenges and evolving philosophies.
• 13:36–15:03 – Advice for prospective members.
• 16:57–23:17 – Laura’s introduction and personal journey as a teacher/parent.
• 23:17–26:34 – Discovering ALL, the importance of coaching community.
• 26:50–31:39 – Visual schedules, color-coding, and predictable routines.
• 31:39–32:27 – Tools for transitions: Wait Mat and All Done Bucket.
• 32:27–40:01 – Navigating challenges, flexible practice, focus on relationships.
• 40:22–42:20 – Laura’s advice and sharing resources.
• 42:49–End – Closing remarks.

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Summary Tone

This episode radiates warmth, practicality, and celebration of neurodiversity-affirming education. Tara, Jordan, and Laura speak candidly about the complexities and joys of early childhood autism support—offering actionable ideas, empathetic reflection, and deep encouragement for anyone supporting young autistic children.

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For Listeners

Whether you’re a special educator, speech language pathologist, paraprofessional, or parent, this episode offers a blend of actionable strategies, validation, and real-world examples to inspire and empower your work with young autistic learners. Community, flexible approaches, and authentic relationships are at the heart of helping children thrive.

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Connect with Tara & Autism Little Learners

• Facebook
• Instagram
• Website

Recommended episodes & resources mentioned:

• Video Modeling, Visual Schedules, Wait Mat, All Done Bucket
• ALL Membership Community and Podcast
• Free Visual Support Starter Set: autismlittlelearners.com/visuals

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to another episode of the Autism Little Learners Podcast. Our membership community is filled with passionate educators, therapists and parents all dedicated to creating compassionate and engaging environments for young autistic learners. Today, I'm excited to introduce you to two extraordinary members of our community who are making a tremendous impact in their own unique ways. Joining me are special education teacher and parent, Laura Wing and special education teacher Jordan Dado. Laura and Jordan consistently go above and beyond to support others in our membership community and I'm delighted to share their stories with you today. In this episode, we'll explore their journeys, discuss the challenges they faced, celebrate their successes, and delve into the strategies that have truly made a difference in the lives of the children they support. Whether you're an educator, therapist or parent, you find inspiration and practical insights from their experiences. Hi, I'm Tara and this is the Autism Little Learners Podcast. I am a speech language pathologist with a twist. I've run my own communication based classroom for over two decades and I'm so excited to share actionable tips and and strategies for supporting young autistic children. My goal is to help you feel more confident and successful when teaching your autistic child or students at the early childhood level. If you are ready to learn some tried and true strategies that really work, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Hey everybody. I have Jourdan here today. She is in the Autism Little Learners membership and she is phenomenal and I can't wait for you to meet her. And I guess, Jordan, welcome. And can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[B]

Yeah. My name is Jordan Datto. I am a early childhood special education teacher. I have been since 2017. I don't know how many years that is. So the kids I teach are 3 to 5. I feel like my role has. We've been kind of trying to change it, but not change it. Like where I'll be in the class one year or we'll have two half days and then now we have tk so it's a full day. It just always some of the kids stay a full day, some stay half the day. And then this coming year I might have kindergarteners, which I had 6 year olds before.

[A]

I feel like in early childhood it's always evolving, like what your role is. Every year can be a little different. You might do itinerant or be in an integrated classroom or a self contained classroom for sure.

[B]

And I feel like my admin is like, yeah, just do what you want. So that's why I really love you guys. Autism Little learners. I have a community where I feel like what I'm doing is validated, I.

[A]

Guess I love that. And you know, you guys, Jordan is usually on our coaching calls and I love that she brings questions but she also supports people when they need it. And that's kind of what the community that you're talking about is about, whether it's in the private Facebook group or on a coaching call. What initially drew you to Autism little Learners in the membership?

[B]

So last year I was getting set up last school year in August for the class and feeling overwhelmed and anxious primarily like I said before because I felt like my role was changing and I didn't know how to handle it. We were going, I really want to be inclusive with the gen ed state preschools and again my admins like do it how you want to or whatever works best, best for you. And the preschool teachers were like, we didn't. They were like what, what's happening? So I went on there to look for resources and I was like, oh my goodness, there's a membership where I can access. It's not just on teacher paid teachers. Yeah, I can access everything I want whenever I want for a small, small fee monthly, which is maybe I don't get coffee every morning. I.

[A]

That's a good point. It probably when you break it down by week it's if, if someone is drinking Starbucks every day, it's less than that a month less one month for a week's worth of Starbucks.

[B]

Starbucks especially, you know, the price always goes up. Yeah, it's really, really beneficial to. So I feel like it's really helped me. So that's how I started and I was printing, using it mainly to print your resources and use in the classroom or share. The next question kind of goes into then how I as it evolved for me then I started getting on the coaching calls and the put in challenges and just going to the calls and those challenges has helped me really implement things in the classroom. Again I feel like remembering the strategies and then having that support.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. I know for me sometimes it's like I may have a resource that I'm going to use that's new or new strategy and it's like you learn about it or you have it but sometimes the piece that's missing is like support in implementing it or a bigger explanation of the why. And my membership started out in 2021 as a product membership. Like you get eight new products a month or whatever it was. But now we've added in the coaching calls and the Support. So that. That community piece and. And all of the trainings, too. Those are new, too.

[B]

I feel like it helps me stay accountable in a way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know if that's the right.

[A]

Word, but, yeah, I think with all of us staying connected with each other, it helps with accountability and not just. You know, sometimes you learn a strategy and you use it for a little bit, and then you kind of forget about it when things get busy.

[B]

And then that's what I do.

[A]

Months later, years later, you're like, oh, why am I not using adapted books more? I kind of just got out of the habit and forgot. So, yeah, that's a super good point. Do you have, like, a specific example or success? Something you've applied and. And it's gone.

[B]

That's where I was going. Like you said, I think that I shared this info, like video modeling with my paras, where it could have been paras that were in my classroom two years ago, not the current paras. So when I go to do it, I'm like, what, you guys don't know this? I with you. So that came from your training? I think it was the autism essential one where you went over video modeling again. And I had a student, and first I was like, I. In my head, I make it more complicated. Right? Always I have to video myself or task by task, or I have to do it when the kids aren't there. Then show them when. Where in your training, you're like, no, just pull out a toy, like their favorite toy, and do it in the moment or whenever you can. So I had a student who didn't want to go into the classroom, so we're transitioning from recess to inside.

[A]

That's a big one.

[B]

Is a big one. So we've been using the wagons a lot, which I didn't before, but it helps, I think, for body autonomy, because they're making the choice to get into the wagon, and I. I don't have to help them get into the wagon. But then when we go into the class, he didn't want to. So I got his toy and started filming. Just right then, right there and walking the toy to wash hand, I think, backpack and wash hands. And I'm filming, not paying attention to what's happening. And my parents like, Jordan, he's following you.

[A]

Oh, my go.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So it literally worked in the moment before you even had a chance to show them the video.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

It was really cool. Although, like, after, when I would do it later with the same student, it was like, in the bathroom, trying to get out of the wagon to the bathroom. I would do the. With the toy. Or like, with the toy, going pee on the potty, pretending he watched the video, but then not yet ready to use the toilet. But I'm getting interest. Like, I listened to the podcast posted for the summit about potty training and see, all this is from you. She said, model, model, model. And in my head, I was. Didn't think that I could model with the toys so much or model with everything. It doesn't have to be modeling in that moment.

[A]

Yeah. And it kind of takes the pressure off of the kids. Then they don't have to perform. The object in the video. Modeling is performing. And like you said, you're taking baby steps in that. Okay, he watched the video. He's interested in it. Doesn't want to go into the bathroom yet. That's fine. Like, just that interest in the video and seeing it, it's gonna, at some point make him probably comfortable enough to go in. And I love that you accept that. And you're like, you know, he watched it, he did this. He didn't go in, but he's just not quite ready for it yet, you know, and you respect that. So.

[B]

But by the end of the year, he was washing his hands.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[B]

And really interested in playing in the water in the sink.

[A]

And when you say character, what character did he like? I think it was a variety.

[B]

Oh, a variety Batman. He likes little figurines. I can't remember exactly which one I pulled out that day.

[A]

And those work so well. The figurines. Yes. Literally sticking it out in front of you in front of your camera and filming it. And kids, really, they. I can picture him. I don't know him. I can picture him following you because they're really. A lot of times our students are really motivated by screens and, like, especially if you have a video of their favorite character on there. I don't even know if I've ever had a student that has been like, nah, I don't want to watch that. You know, maybe follow through with what you're showing yet. But we're planting seeds and using things they love and building that relationship. Yes, I love that. Jordan, what challenges have you faced? Kind of in general, working with autistic kids? And is there anything from the membership that's kind of helped you with challenges?

[B]

So what I was thinking was mainly, like, we're currently. My support, I think, in that. In what I'm doing. Is it right in my philosophies. And my teaching. Teaching foundation. I don't feel challenged by the students a. Because I love what I do so much. And I know that they're the skills they have in that moment, and what can I do to help them make. Make that progress to get to that moment? I know it's not them. That behavior is communicating something. Right. I think.

[A]

Yeah, no, I know what you're saying. It's. It's not the students for you that are hard. It's you inside feeling like you're doing the right thing. The right philosophy, the right strategies.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And those evolve over time. You know, with the neurodiversity movement, I have changed how I have interacted with kids for 25 years. Just. Just, you know, evolving, evolving, evolving. And none of us are perfect. And we. We do the best we can. And I just love how many people, how the Internet helps us connect and learn from each other and really align and say, yeah, this is what I'm okay with, and this is what I'm not okay with. And. And kind of the birds of a feather flock together and we find each other.

[B]

And it's.

[A]

It's amazing. It's been amazing. So what advice would you have, Jordan, if there was an educator or parent listening? So we have parents in our group too. Quite a few parents in the membership. But if they're considering joining Autism Little Learners membership, but they're not sure what. What advice would you give?

[B]

Just do it. I feel like, like I said, the price, you could not have copy for the month. But I feel so connected within the membership and that missing piece, at least in my school district, like we said, I feel like my philosophies don't always match up, but I know here that I am doing the right thing and have all these support and to back it up with the research. So for parents too. I always want to share everything I'm. I'm learning with them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it'd just be so great to have, like, if the school could supply it for parents and teachers to have. Hey, I listen to this. What strategy that. I think this would work really good with your child. So I'm sending them like the pot, your podcast. But I don't want to overwhelm.

[A]

Right, right. We walk that line with parents too, of, like, when they're ready for information in a certain area, we are glad to give it to them. But we also don't want to overwhelm them and be. Or make them feel like you have to do this and this and this. Otherwise you're a bad parent. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we'd never want to make people feel that way. So when they're ready, we're there, armed with information on. On these topics. I love that.

[B]

So I like, hey, this. I learned this cool thing from this podcast, and I just share the podcast.

[A]

Yeah, that's a great.

[B]

If you're doing it together, then we could do maybe like a. Let's do this training together, and then we could talk about it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. I know when you mentioned the community, that's kind of been the common theme from what you've been talking about today. Because a lot of times people that work with autistic kids might be the only one in their school district or in their building with a classroom like theirs. And so it can feel isolating. And I'm looking at your background right now, and you guys, Jordan, if you're just. If you're listening audio on the podcast, she said, I'm at my mom's house. She jumped on Zoom with me, and she's like, I don't know how to get this background off. It's like, imagine a tropical island behind her.

[C]

It's so cute.

[A]

She's like, I met my mom's. I don't know how to get it off. But it kind of goes well with the theme. Like, sometimes special educators feel like they're on an island and they don't have people around them to support them in that community. So, yeah, think of that with your background, having that community, why it's so important. Kind of a lifeline. You don't burn out.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. Well, Jordan, thank you so much for meeting with me today. And is there anything else you wanted to add before we go?

[B]

No, I was just happy to have the opportunity.

[A]

Oh, I'm. I'm thrilled that you said yes to chatting, and I'm honored to have you in the membership.

[B]

Yeah. I'm excited to continue and do the summit coming up this week.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Yes. So exciting. Well, thank you so much, and I will see you soon.

[B]

All right, bye.

[A]

Bye. Hey, everybody, I've got Laura Wing here, and she is in the Autism Little Learners membership, and she is in for a dual purpose, both as a mom and an educator. And so, Laura, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do and about your son?

[C]

Yes. Well, my name is Laura and I am from a very small town in. It's called Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada. I'm a special education teacher and recently just took a Job teaching a fully self contained communication class in March of this year. My class consists of six beautiful autistic boys who have communication delays. But before that I taught for nine years at a different school. It was called enhanced learning program and I took just various students for just like a 50 minute blog. Students who had special needs, high needs, mostly autistic. But I did have like down syndrome, medical wheelchair in my class also. And in 2021 I, I was introduced to Lucas. Lucas came to us from another school. We had a transition meeting for him and during the transition meeting we found out that CAS Children's Aid Society was involved. His needs were very high. He was still in diapers. A communication delay, autistic and developmental delay. Our team decided that he would just come into my class full time. It was pandemic time also. And then we could help him really transition into a kindergarten class. So that was March of 2021 and May 2021. So just two short months later, Lucas is living with us with my husband Jeff, my two girls, Lily, who is now 20 and Abby, who's now 18. So we are now in the process of adoption. We're in the middle of it. It's a long process. I don't even know where we stand at the moment. But we've had a lot of papers to sign and lots of our friends and family have been contacted so. So we know it's rolling. We just don't know when adoption will happen. Lucas is eight years old. He will be eight in August. He brings so much joy and life to our family. He's definitely changed the trajectory of our plan. This is not the plan, but it's, it's amazing and we just wouldn't have it any other way. He is non verbal, we'll say, but he does have a few words, the important ones like no more and go, mama. He's his mama a lot. But he is like rocking the communication methods of all kinds of methods. So he does pecs, he will bring your hand, he does hand leading. And you know what, I know it sounds silly, but he definitely talks with his eyes and his smile. A lot can be understood by those, by those actions that he has with his eyes and smile. It's just a beautiful thing. So we're really working.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

There's so many ways to communicate.

[C]

Yes. And our whole method is multimodal communication. And everyone asks me, is he going to talk? And I say, well, he does. He already does. He when. Whatever method he chooses, he's going to be amazing at it. So, yeah, you know, we're just giving him all of the tools necessary and he's just gonna pick the ones that he is most comfortable with.

[A]

It's beautiful, Laura. Like, that's a great way of explaining it and explaining multimodal communication because mouth words aren't the only way to communicate with people. And I love that you're exploring so many different methods to kind of see what clicks with him. And it might change because he gets older, but absolutely, keep going.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. So in, in February, I had applied, I applied for this job for the fully self contained job. And I thought, oh, like I, I would love to have like a community out there to kind of get some ideas. I just kind of put the cart before the horse because I didn't even know if I had the job. But then I stumbled upon autism little learners. And it just so happened that you were having like this little workshop for like a four day workshop on your fundamentals of communication class. And it was ten dollars. I'm like, oh my gosh, for ten bucks I have to do this. And it will help me with Lucas, it will help me in my class that I'm doing now. And if I get the job, it'll be amazing. So I took that and just absolutely fell in love with your views, your values and everything you talk about. It taught me a few things, but also confirmed a lot of things that I do already. So that's how I found you on Facebook. And then when I got the job, I was like, membership now.

[A]

I remember, Laura. I remember it was coaching week. And so we spent like those four nights, I think it was, together as a group and you were right there ready to take in anything and especially with, with your son or your future son. You just call him your son.

[B]

I do.

[C]

He's my son.

[A]

Yeah. The doctor doesn't have to be like fully legal yet. Yeah, but you were taking things in for him, but also for this job that you were hoping to get. And you know who volunteers to start a brand new program in a school mid year, It's Laura. And perfect for it. She is a go getter. I knew that right from the start, takes action, asks questions. And so I just have to say throughout that whole process, it's been so fun to watch you and support you in any little way that I can. And the community has supported you to the membership community. But watching you go from an empty classroom to a thriving classroom by the end of the school year, and we'll talk a little bit about that soon, but it's It's a testament to you and just what you were able to accomplish in that short amount of time.

[C]

Thank you. And honestly, I always tell everyone I couldn't do without Tara. I know Tara. She's from Wisconsin. And I tell everybody about you. I quote you all the time. I refer to you, to all my colleagues. I'm like, go look her up. It's amazing. Even if you just join her Facebook page, the visual support page or whatever, like, you're going to get a lot out of it.

[A]

Thank you. And we're practically neighbors, right? I mean, absolutely. And you're in Canada.

[C]

Yeah, we border Sioux St. Marie, Michigan. So we're a border city.

[A]

Yeah. Really close. So you told us about your son and about you and kind of your classroom. And initially, what drew you to Autism Little Learners, which was doing that coaching week and being like, okay, these things align with what I want. What about the community? How has that impacted your work over these last few months during this, Like.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

For you.

[C]

Well, the. The fact that you have. At the end of every month, we can meet face to face. I. Golden. Like, I. It's worth the membership right then and there. The fact that we can, like, share our. Our struggles, our. Our successes, and people validate or give you some advice, you know, and other people are sharing their struggles and you're listening and going, well, you know what? I could use that. Or I could. You know, that's a great resource. That alone is just. It's key. I love that I tell everyone, like, who do you get to meet face to face with when you join a membership like this and get, like, advice from other educators and moms and parents across the. Not just the country, but the world. Really?

[A]

Absolutely. It's such a special part for me, too, to actually get to know, like, on almost a friend level, because you get to meet like we are right now and chat and get to know each other.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

About each other.

[C]

It's nice to be a part of community of people who are like you.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Who have such a passion.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because not everyone understands it or gets it and, you know, they try to. And it's okay. That's not their thing. But it's so nice to, like, hit join. And you're like, oh, people like me.

[A]

It'S my crew, Mike.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Right. They get me. They get me. Because sometimes in special education, especially working with autistic kids, you can be the only one in your school doing that job. Some places the only one in that district. And you are alone. You don't have Anyone to bounce ideas off of. And so.

[C]

And I'm reading somewhere. The, the workshops, they don't relate. They don't. They just. As much as they want to say, they just don't. We're such a specialized program and I'm. We're the first communication class for kids with autism. And then in September, there's going to be an intermediate one, so a seven, eight. So I'm. I'm kindergarten grade one, two, three, and I'll have up to grade four, but then there's going to be another one. So now we're building. It's called the STAR program. So it's. Yeah, so now we're building. So it's kind of nice to get some education and a workshop that kind of gears to exactly what we're doing. And then I can bring that forth to the new STAR teacher or to my, you know, education team, Special education team.

[A]

That's awesome. Can you think back now over the last, you know, several months that you've had this classroom going? What were some specific examples of maybe a success story or something you've applied in your classroom that worked, even if it didn't work at first.

[C]

Right. There's so much. So I. We started from day one. The second they walked into the classroom, I had their visual. So they each have their own specific schedule with their picture on it, thanks to you. And then underneath is a folder of all of their activities that the things that they're going to be doing or going throughout the day. So we, we start with just. We started with just one. Like, if it was smart board, we'd have the smart, smart board visual. But by April, end of April, we're like, I think we could put two or three now. And then by June, all I would say was, okay, go check schedule, or that I didn't have to say it. They would just get up and go check their schedule. Most of them and some I have to bring the schedule to them and we will point to the next thing and they know to go line up by the door, it's gym time, or to go to the carpet, or I use the red, green, yellow, blue tables, which is genius. I was like, this is awesome because I don't have to have a million visuals about what to do at that table. They just know they're going to the red table. That's one to one activities. They're going to be doing various activities at that table. If they go to the blue table, it's more social. It's more like they're playing a Game with a friend or the EA that's in the room so they know like I don't have to have all these visuals. It's just like red table and then I have various activities there. I love that has been amazing.

[A]

Yeah, I love that you brought that up. Because less is more, right? We don't need more visuals. We want to do what we need to do with teaching predictable routines and all that with the least amount possible. Because otherwise you're never going to be able to find them or you're, you know, people on your team. It's just going to be really hard for everyone to get organized. So the idea of going to a location versus having pictures for every single.

[C]

Activity and some activities, some activities might not be for them like at that day like I always have preferred activities too ready to go. Because if they're like stressful, struggling with an activity, they're at the red table. It's not like you have to do this, we're going to try and do this and if you're struggling we're going to switch to a song, we're going to play a little game, we're going to do a put in activity. So it's.

[A]

This is what I love about you, Laura. You intuitively some of these things that I talk about but can be harder to implement you intuitively, this is your way. So when Laura just talked about we start with one picture on the schedule, she had a whole new class, all brand new at the same time. And we had talked a few times about it's okay to start with one visual, one picture on the schedule. Because kids might not understand a sequence yet oftentimes they don't. So then to them it might look just like a choice board, like oh, I'll choose this one. And you're trying to be like well no, we got to do this, this, this and it's too much. But then when as certain kids were ready you upped the sequence and then beyond that you kind of explained how you had a. You have a spot where the kids schedules are and they go to it. But if there's a student that still needs that transitions too hard and they need you to bring the schedule to them, you do that. So those are the. Some of the things we talk about too especially on our calls is how do we individualize it and differentiate within this structure to kind of accommodate kids needs. And you're really good at that.

[C]

Definitely. Thank you.

[A]

And I remember you talking too this spring about things like the all done bucket and the weight mat. Like I can't believe how quickly the kids started understanding them, because you never know. It could be quick and it could take months. But you said your group, really, they.

[C]

Love the weight mat. It has been magic. Magic. So they know, like, I have weight mats all over the place. Oh, and on every desk, everywhere you see a weight mat. And they know. They just come, and I just sometimes have to point to it or sometimes I don't do anything. And they just know to put their. Like, Lucas always has a straw. So he comes to stand, he puts a straw on the weight mat. We do our activity. He takes the weight mat back, or he takes the straw back when it's done, and he goes off to. To continue his. His play, the All Done Bucket. So I have a little guy, he's very exploratory play. He loves to, like, throw things up and listen to them fall. So All Done Bucket is amazing for him. And he even started just throwing things into the all done bucket. When it was the timer goes off, we're like, okay, it's all done now. All done Beckett. And at first, he was a little confused, and we would just model for him and, you know, we'd let him take maybe one toy, one thing to the carpet for a transition. It was hard to let go right at first, but now he's like, oh, I'll just put all these in the all done bucket and stick that on the shelf and head to my next place.

[A]

Doesn't that blow your mind?

[C]

It does.

[A]

It's so simple, but so, so simple. And why does it work with, like, kids all across the world who have tried it? It works. It's just. It works one of those things. And it wasn't something that All Done bucket I did not invent. It was being used when I started at early childhood by Terry, who I co taught with for 10 years. And we all call it the. The magical tool.

[C]

Yes, it is. It's magic. And even people who come into my class are like, wow, I can't believe how well that works. I know. Amazing magic.

[A]

So what challenges have you faced over these last several months? I know it's probably a little bit different. Well, maybe the same as anyone starting out a new school year, but yours just happened to be in March, Right?

[C]

So some of the challenges is to know when. When to keep pushing or when to pull back if something's not right, something's not going well. The challenge is to think outside the box. The challenge is to be like, what I thought was best practice might not be best practice here and that's okay. And I think you've taught me that, you've taught me to be like, let go of what we think should happen and just, you know, take the owl approach. Just observe, watch, listen. It's okay. Time is on our side, especially in a fully self contained classroom. We have the time, we have the patience, we have the structure to just let that, let them lead their learning. We don't have to force it, we just let it come. And I think I've really learned that in the last three months. And not that I would push my other students, but you know, you just think it has to be done this way because it's how we always do it. But you're like listening to your, your podcast about rethinking hand over hand, listening to the multimodal communication and like we talked about earlier, just putting it there without expectation. Just show, model, put it there, let them see it, but don't expect anything back. Just model it and it's going to come.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I think that that's really what I've learned in the last three months and I've taught my EAs the same and other people who are in like an ELP or enhanced learning program just to step back, let them lead it and it's okay to repeat, it's okay to do the same things over and over again. And then one day they're just going to do it and then that becomes independent activity that you can set them up with that activity at a different table and now you can work with another student and they're fine because they have come to understand and know what an activity is because you didn't push them. We want them to want to come to school. We want them to love school. I didn't want any sign of a struggle to come. This was such a new program and such a hard transition because it was mid year that I thought we can't push these kids. We have to let them be okay and have to let them trust us. So your, you know, predictable routines, connections, relationships, all of that I really, really hone in, honed in on. And I think that's one of the things that really made it a success in the last three months.

[A]

I do too. Everything you just said gave me, literally gave me butterflies in my stomach because it was like, oh my gosh, this, you're, you're amazing. And I'm just so impressed with what you've done in a short time. And I can tell just by talking to you, those kids are so lucky to have you.

[C]

Sure. You know, they always say that, but I say I think I'm the lucky one. I don't know. They just bring so much joy. I love it so much. And the parents are happy. Parents are really like, they. It was a struggle. It was a struggle for me even to decide to put Lucas into this program. Changing schools when they're already doing what we thought was okay. Now we're like, wait a second. They were doing okay, but now they're thriving.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, parents are just overjoyed because their child wants to go to school. They're happy, and they're. And parents are happy. And I think in three months, we've established that in September, it's go time. Let's see what else we can do.

[A]

Yeah. And what a pressure you took off of even your educational assistance, your staff self, when you said, you know, there's that point where you're like, okay, I'm pushing, and it's not going well. It's not working. And we might come to those moments several times during a day. It's not like you find that line. And, okay, now we know what to do and where not to push. Kids will be different every day depending on what their morning was like, how they're feeling, their temperament that day. And so that line might look a little bit different, but kind of. We talk a lot about avoiding those power struggles, or I think old way of thinking is, we're in a power struggle. I said that we're doing this activity. I have to follow through or he's going to learn that he can get out of it by doing xyz. And I just don't subscribe to that anymore, and I haven't for a long time because they would if they could. Something, whether it's regulation or connection, or maybe they're just pushing it away, communicating to us. No, thanks.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That's where we have to pivot.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Not them.

[B]

They.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Lots of tricks up our sleeve. Lots of, like, pivoting. Lots of, like, this is not working. Let's try this.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it doesn't mean we never do that activity or work on that skill, but we might have to rethink how we're putting it out there for them, how we're engaging them in it, or is there a different way we could do it? Or is it something they're not ready for and we come back to later and do something else instead? It's not just like, oh, you get to just run over everybody and say no to everything. Well, they say no. To everything. And part of it for us is figuring out how can we reach them. Then.

[C]

Yes, yes, definitely. And then you hit.

[A]

Oh, go ahead.

[C]

Oh, I was gonna say. And then you hit the magic moments. Like, you just stand back, and suddenly it's like, oh, my gosh, they got it.

[A]

Let go of that control.

[C]

We've been waiting for this, and here it happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was just gonna say that that is where the magic happens when you think outside the box. You already talked about. And I've talked so many times. Everyone has probably heard the story about my students who. There were a lot of skills we had worked on for a long time at the elementary level, including using the bathroom, peeing in the potty. And it wasn't until I thought outside the box and said, I'm going to make a story with their favorite country singers, because that was their huge interest. And so it was country singers peeing in the potty. You have to think outside the box to go, okay, I'm going to take a boardmaker symbol from the waist down with the yellow pea going into the toilet, and I'm gonna glue a picture of Willie Nelson on the top, and we're gonna try it. And it worked. Immediately after, you know, he was second grade. The boys were second grade. And so, yeah, feeling like you have some flexibility, that's gonna help you a lot.

[C]

Like when we first started, I. I had all their names dotted so they could trace their names. One little guy, he's just wants a scribble. So I'm like, okay, I guess, you know, we're not ready for that. So I. I have some of your activities where the stop sign to the car. Right. So I'm like, maybe this is what he would like. And then we, like, we had to drive the car to the stop sign. And I'm like, okay, this is what he likes. We'll do this to develop these tools, and then we'll come back to the name after. He's not interested in. In writing his name at the moment. He just wants to scribble. So rethink, Retool.

[A]

Yeah. And don't you think the old outdated way would be, well, I'm going to hand over hand and make him do this, even if he is looking the other way or if he's upset because this is what we're doing. And instead of really backing up and being okay with taking the steps.

[C]

Yeah, because I want them to come to the red table. I don't want them to be like, no, every time I go, there she Makes me do something I don't like.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

It has to be a happy experience for them.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Relationships, I mean, you're just hitting on everything that is. Is so important. It's the only thing that matters, really.

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And then learning comes naturally after that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Laura, what advice would you give to other educators or parents who are considering maybe joining the Autism Little Learners membership?

[C]

Yes, I say do it. Just join and it'll be, like, one of the best investments you've ever made. Honestly. I always say it. It's. It's the best monthly payment I have. I am happy to pay it. The resources at your fingertips. I mean, it's amazing to. Okay, I need. Oh, the WH questions. Beautiful. Go find it, Print it, laminate it. You're using it. I mean, it saves so much time. Any visual you're looking for, you need a toilet sequence visual. You got it. You need a smart board one. You've got it. Recess. It's there. You're not making things up. So it saves so much time. And it's just a matter of clicking, printing, laminating. Done.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then you have access to, like, all your podcasts, which I listen to all the time I share with my parents. The food one and the toileting one. Shared. Right. With my parents. I'm like, everybody needs to listen to this.

[A]

That's a great idea.

[C]

Yeah. I just, like, copy it and send it into our. We have, like. It's called Seesaw, so it's an app where I can communicate with all the parents, and I just. Just plunk it there, and I'm like, it's worth your listen.

[A]

Well, the other day when I was talking to Jana, who's in the membership, she said she uses the podcast similarly, but for her paraprofessionals, if they have maybe 20 minutes where they're prepping something and she'll just assign it, like, listen to episode number 24 while you're doing that. So you guys are just finding such excuses for things to kind of help the whole team, whether it's national or parents. It's. It's just awesome.

[C]

Well, you have to share the wealth. You can't just keep it for. You just have to spread it because it's too good not to. Everyone needs to. To learn and to. To open their minds to different ways of doing things.

[A]

Yeah. And it helps the child when it.

[B]

When it comes.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That's who it helps.

[C]

Absolutely. And that's like, our focus. Our main focus is the child.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So I think when when we learn and we change, they change and they grow.

[A]

Definitely. Well, Laura, thank you so much for meeting with me today. And hey, if you end up at some point joining the membership, you're going to be able to get on a call with Laura there some of the some of the months and be able to collaborate with awesome people like her. So thanks again and I'll see coaching call you betcha.

[C]

Yeah. Thanks, Tara.

[A]

Bye. Bye. I'm sending a big virtual hug your way because you just finished another episode of the Autism Little Learners podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. If you have had success with any of the strategies that you learned about in this podcast, I would love to hear from you. Send me a DM on Instagram or Facebook. Autismlittlelearners don't forget to grab your free visual support starter set by going to autismlittlelearners.com visuals and always remember to find the good in every day. Sam.