← The Baffling Behavior Show {Parenting after Trauma}
The Baffling Behavior Show {Parenting after Trauma}
REPLAY: Oppositional And Defiant Behavior (Oppositional Series - Part 1)
00:46:18
Loading summary
Transcript1 lines
- [00:01]
Robin Goble
I finally get to share with you something that I've been working on for a while. Making Sense of Baffling Behaviors is a free audio training for professionals who work with the families of kids with big baffling behaviors. This four part free training is delivered to you again for free right in your podcast app, the one that you're using right now to listen to the Baffling Behavior Show. If you work with high intensity families with a lot of dysregulation and baffling behaviors, you might occasionally, or yeah, maybe even a lot of the time feel overwhelmed or even burned out. Making sense of those baffling behaviors, the kids, the parents, and yes, your own, is the first and most non negotiable step in decreasing burnout, being more effective at your job, and yes, even loving your work again. If you join this training, you'll also get access to a discussion forum that I'm holding over on Facebook and 2 live Q& A sessions with me. This is a pop up audio training, meaning it's time limited. It will start May 5, runs throughout the week and will be available to listen to you until May 12th. That's one week total. I mean there's really no reason not to sign up. It's free, it's offered in a podcast app so you can listen whenever you want. There's no live commitment, just those bonus live Q&As. The link to register is down in the show. Notes robingobel.com bafflingbehaviors Y'all, this is one of my most favorite weeks of the year and I cannot wait to share it with you. Now let's get to that episode that you pressed. Play on. So when your kids behavior is baffling and yours is too, sometimes. Yeah, I know. Let's take a break from all the bamboozle here on the Baffling Behavior Show. Hey hey hey y'all. Welcome or welcome back to the Baffling Behavior show or the podcast formerly known as Parenting After Trauma. I'm your host, Robin Goble, and here on the Baffling Behavior show, you and I get together and I help to decode the neuroscience of being relationally, socially and behaviorally human. So you can use that in a way that is useful in parenting your child with baffling behaviors. A vulnerable nervous system, maybe a history of complex trauma, her or neuroimmune disorders, neurodivergence, sensory processing disorder, giftedness. There are so many, so many things that can contribute to some vulnerability in the nervous system and that's what the Baffling behavior show is all about. Today you're gonna listen to a replay of part one from a previously aired four part series on oppositional behavior. So over the next four weeks, we are deep diving into the neurobiology of opposition and of course exploring steps you can take to support your child's nervous system so that they can move from protection mode, where oppositional behavior emerges from, into connection mode. This series originally aired about a year ago in the fall of 2023. So I don't think it needs much more introduction. We're just gonna head right into episode one of this four part series on oppositional and defiant behavior. Today's podcast is on a topic that I talk about with a lot of frequency. And if you typed the word opposition into my podcast toolbar, you're not going to find an episode that has the word opposition or oppositional defiance disorder in the search results. I've never done an episode where it was very specifically, very deliberately about oppositional behavior or oppositional defiance disorder, which is pretty wild. So that's what we're doing today. And in the next couple of weeks I'm going to do a short little series here on the behavior of opposition, the nervous system, state of opposition, and yes, we'll talk a little bit about the diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder. Here's sort of how I'm mapping out this series in my mind that today we're going to talk about the nervous system experience that leads to oppositional behavior. Okay, we're really going to think about the behavior of opposition from a nervous system. Some perspective. If you're new here, you might not yet know this about me, but I am a huge believer in understanding why behaviors are emerging the way that they are. And that understanding behavior actually is a tool or a technique or a strategy or whatever you want to call it. Because changing how we see people, including our kids, changes them. It's an actual strategy, but also it changes us. And when we can bring what's called coherence and understanding to a behavior that seems really baffling, that shifts our nervous system into what I call connection mode, it brings our owl brain back. And number one, that's just good for us, especially if we live with kids with pretty chronically baffling behaviors, our owl brain's getting the opportunity to fly away a lot. Right? So, and that, and that actually is not good for us. Spending a lot of time in protection mode is really hard on the body. So if we can stay more in connection mode, if we can stay more in connected to our owl brain, that plain and simple, is just good for us, but ultimately it's also really good for our kids. It's not actually just really good for our kids. It's relatively non negotiable. And you're gonna see the reasons for that as this podcast unfolds. Because the state of our nervous system is one of the most important, quote unquote tools when helping our kids shift the state of their nervous system. Now, I want that to feel hopeful, not hopeless, right? Ultimately, we have no control over anyone else. The only person that we can impact is ourselves. And a very, very powerful way that we can help our kids feel more safe, more regulated, have behaviors that are more conducive to relationship, is to help shift the state of their nervous system. And to do that, we have to be able to shift the state of our nervous system. If that feels like an impossible goal, I want to just send so much compassion that, that's a real hard place to be. To be in a place where it feels impossible to switch the state of your own nervous system is a really, really hard place to be. So, so much compassion to you. And actually my recommendation for you is to just keep listening. Don't really even try to change anything or do anything different. Just keep listening. And over time, my hope would be that you can really absorb the compassion that I offer you in this podcast, the connection, the CO regulation. And over time, that compassion, that connection, that co regulation will start to build in some resilience into your nervous system. It's probably not enough. There's other things you can do. You can head to my podcast episode called what to do when youn Nervous System Is Fried and get some ideas from there. But really my point at this moment is that you're going to hear over the next couple episodes an emphasis on how one of the primary ways that we can support our kids who have oppositional behaviors is for our own nervous system to be in connection mode. And I know that for some or maybe even many of you listening, that's going to feel like a really big ask. And so I want to just mention that up front and I want to reassure you that ultimately that truth can actually bring us a whole lot of hope, not increase our hopelessness. And I want you to just hang on, you know, if that's how you're feeling, I want you to just, just keep, keep listening, keep giving yourself compassion and keep coming back. So again, today is going to be what I think is I'm gonna give myself the opportunity to shift this as As I record the series, I'm a little behind on recording because of the book coming out, but I'm anticipating this is gonna be a three part series. And today we're gonna talk about how we conceptualize make sense of oppositional behavior from a nervous system perspective. Next week I'm gonna talk what do we do about that? And then the third week, I'm gonna talk specifically about kids who don't experience connection as regulating. So connecting with them doesn't decrease oppositional behavior, it seems to increase oppositional behavior. And also, you may even have a kid whose oppositional behavior seems to be very deliberately being used to keep you out of connection. So if that resonates with you at all, we're going to talk about that in what I'm anticipating is going to be the third episode of this series. So simply put, okay, so if we're going to think about how to make sense of oppositional behavior, there's a few things that we have to agree on. First, number one, that all behavior makes sense, right? There's no such thing as in the moment, a maladaptive behavior, all behavior makes sense. Okay? So that's the first thing we have to remember. Second thing that I think is helpful to remember is that truly for the human brain, for the human nervous system, connection is our baseline. It's our expectation. Even the child that seems most committed to staying out of connection, there is some place of their nervous system that truly is longing to be in connection. It's our baseline, it's our expectation. So when I'm in relationship with somebody who seems, let's just say, real committed to oppositional behavior, I do try to hold that truth in my mind. Somewhere underneath this is a longing for connection. When we feel safe, we are in a nervous system state of connection. Okay? I call it connection mode. Safety felt safety equals connection mode. When we are in. When we are experiencing a lack of safety, when we're receiving more cues of danger than cues of safety, our nervous system flips into protection mode and oppositional behavior emerges from protection mode. Right. Oppositional behavior is not a behavior that suggests that person is wanting to be in connection. And it doesn't make us want to be in connection with them. That's how we know it's emerging from a nervous system state of protection mode. So simply put, oppositional behavior indicates a nervous system in protection mode. It has gone down the protection mode pathway and it's usually emerging as like a what's up? Or a ready for action watchdog level. If you aren't yet familiar with the watchdog and possum levels, you can go to the podcast episode about how to focus on the nervous system to change behavior. I have a free webinar and ebook that has the same title, Focus on the Nervous System to change behavior. That's robngoble.com webinar. And then, of course, I have my new book, Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors, which is going to be the most comprehensive resource to help you really understand connection mode, protection mode, the owl watchdog and the possum brain, and the different stages of the watchdog and the possum brain. So oppositional behavior is typically emerging from a nervous system that's in the what's up or they're ready for action watchdog level of arousal. Now, certainly oppositionality is a feature of like the back off or the attack level watchdog. It's just not usually the predominant feature. Usually the behaviors that are emerging from that activated watchdog are more intense than simply oppositionality. So it's not typically the behavior that parents or therapists or caregivers are describing as the behavioral feature. Right. They're usually talking about the verbal aggression or the physical aggression or other kind of bigger behaviors that are indeed oppositional, but they aren't being described with the language of oppositionality. Typically when people are telling me that this particular child is being oppositional, we're looking at a kid who's in the what's up? Or the ready for action level of activation. The number one thing we've got to do with the behavior of oppositionality is to remember or even to think about maybe for the first time ever, when oppositional behavior is good. Right. So oppositional behavior, good. Very important. When the individual is actually in danger. Makes sense, right? If I'm in danger, my primary objective is protection, not connection. Oppositional behavior is also good. If our kids are being asked to do something by an untrustworthy adult, we want our kids to respond oppositionally if the person asking them to do something is not somebody who is in a place of asking our kids to do something. And especially if our kids feel that that adult is untrustworthy. Right? Because it's dangerous to do things that untrustworthy people tell you to do. And then another reason when another time when oppositional behavior would be considered good is if somebody's asking us to do something that goes against the rules or goes against our own values. So I think in those circumstances, it's really clear that the oppositional behavior is protection mode. And it's not bad. Right. We are not trying to get our watchdog or our possum brains to go away. We are trying to get watchdog and possum brains to rest so that they only like, swing into action when they're needed. Okay? And we need a watchdog brain reaction when somebody's asking us to do something dangerous or goes against our values or the person asking us to do something is, is not a trustworthy individual. Okay? So that's when opposition is good. Let's also look at when opposition, we might not call it good, but it's just simply normal. Okay? Opposition is normal when somebody's being asked or expected to do something they don't want to do. Just a real quick interruption. If you're loving the podcast, you should go right now to my website. Check out all my free resources. There's webinars, downloadable ebooks, and a huge amount of infographic cheat sheets on so many different topics. Felt safety and boundaries. How to handle lying. What to do if you have a child who seems always dysregulated. How to not flip your lid when your kid is flipping theirs. Steps you can take when your nervous system is fried. What co regulation really looks like. And y'all, that's not even all. There's more. And my team and I add at this point about one new free resource a month. So you're going to want to check in regularly, see all those free resources, and download exactly what you want@robin goble.com freeresources. Let's go back to the show. This is normal and you probably do it too. And if you don't do it, you might want to get curious about that. Generally speaking, when humans are faced with doing something we don't want to do, we have at least a moment of switching into protection mode. This is simply how human works. It's part of our physiology. So think about it like this for a second. When you have some sort of expectation placed upon you, right? If you're being requested to do something and it requires a little bit of energy, because it always does, having an expectation, being required to do something would require you to have a little bit of energy to do do that thing, right? When I want to do something and I'm motivated by the outcome, by the end result, I'm going to have like a neurochemical dump that gives me some extra energy and allows me to kind of move toward that thing that needs to get done. A super simple example is me recording this podcast. Number one, I really enjoy recording the podcast. Number two, I can keep in Mind the end result, which is that, you know, thousands of people all over the world are getting a useful free resource. And also I want to avoid not getting it done right, like meeting my deadline, staying on track, all of those things are motivating to me. They're giving me the, like, extra energy and power to do something. Now, if I am being expected to do something by myself or by someone else and I'm not motivated by the end result, I'm not really gonna have any extra, like, power or motivation, you know, neurochemically dumped into my body that's going to help propel me into action. So an aspect of this, y'all is simple physics. An object at rest stays at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. Right? I mean, I just took us way back. When was the last time you heard about how an object at rest stays at rest unless acted upon by an outside force? So being asked to do something, whether it's an internal request, like. Like the. Like, we just are expecting ourselves to do it, or an external request allows us to shift our state. And that's hard. Always it's hard. It requires energy. It's way easier to just keep doing what you're doing. Okay, so shifting requires energy. And if I want to do the thing, it makes it much easier to conjure up that energy. If I don't want to do that thing or I don't really care, I'm not motivated, it's a lot harder to conjure up that energy simply because physics. Okay, so what about not being allowed to do something we want to do? Right? Like, sure, sometimes your kids are oppositional when you ask them to do something. Sometimes they're oppositional when they're not allowed to do something that they really want to do. So again, this is normal human physiology for us to flip into protection mode when we have some sort of desire, hope, or expectation that we don't get to meet. Okay, when there's a desire or hope or an expectation in our nervous system, there is, like, what I think about as being, like, this energetic reach. Like, I'm moving toward it, maybe physically, but also sometimes just like this energetic move toward. Right. It's propelling us towards this thing that we want it and prompting us to fill that desire for all sorts of reasons, but not the least of which is because it feels satisfying and good. So when that is thwarted, when that reach for something, even if it's just an energetic reach, is thwarted and some sort of boundary or barrier goes up, you know, a parent jumps in and says, no, you can't do that. No, we're not doing that. Or we're doing this instead. And you might have really fantastic reasons for why they can't do that thing, right? But when a boundary or barrier goes up, instead, the nervous system's gonna flip into protection mode. Okay? That's just simple, basic human physiology. Now, the intensity of that protection mode is gonna depend on a lot of things. Number one, our kind of felt safety baseline prior to that safety, some folks are more, let's say, like, strongly anchored into felt safety than others. They are experiencing more cues of safety than other folks. Having a bigger bucket of felt safety is going to decrease the intensity of that protection mode response because there's, like, more bandwidth to kind of absorb that protection mode response. Okay? The second thing that's going to impact the intensity of our protection mode response is gonna be like, how regulated were we before that thing happened that flipped us into protection mode? And I think we all have experience with that, right? Like, when my nervous system's feeling a little stronger, I'm a little more regulated. I'm well rested, I'm getting good nutrition, I'm getting good exercise. My stress level overall is, you know, at a place that I can manage, all right? When my regulation is nice and strong, I flip less intensely into protection mode. I mean, I get less triggered, right? Okay, Then the third reason that impacts the intensity of flipping into protection mode is how connected am I to the person that's asking me to do this thing, right? How much is that relationship providing a bit of buffer for the feelings that arise as I be as I shift into protection mode because I'm being asked to do something I don't necessarily want to do. Right? And then, of course, that's also going to take into account our previous experiences with what it means to not get what I want. Like, how devastating in the past has it been to not get what I want? Meaning, have I ever not gotten things that I needed to survive, like safety, protection from dangerous adults, food, Right? Have I ever not gotten things I wanted that's going to impact the intensity to which I feel not being able to get something I want or do something I want. And then, of course, each of us have our own individual, unique, wonderful. Hey, friends. So just a really quick interruption. Make sure you know about the new Owl, Watchdog and possum workbook for kids. The All About Me workbook is 24 pages, full color. It's created to help kids strengthen their owl brain and take care of and calm their watchdog and their Possum. Your child can do the workbook alone or with you. And in fact, even if they aren't interested in the workbook, you could learn a ton about how to help their owl, watchdog and possum just by reading and maybe even doing some of it yourself. The workbook's available to purchase and you'll get it instantly as a digital Download over@robingobel.com Store. Neurotype. Right? How does my unique nervous system respond to expectations, demands, or not being allowed to do what I want? Okay, now as an adult, I can mostly regulate through not getting to do what I want or, or doing things that I don't want to do. I mean, life is kind of about doing things you don't really want to do. It's a large portion of our day, frankly. And I have a relatively wide window of tolerance. I have a lot of frustration tolerance. I am really growing in my tolerance for feeling disappointed, though. Disappointment used to be very triggering for me. I have a pretty strong owl brain. I've developed a lot of coping skills over the years. Like on chore day, I watch a show I like on my phone or my tablet and I can walk around with it and I have headphones in, right? So I intentionally bolster my nervous system so I can get more cues of safety by doing something fun while doing something I don't really want to do. My adult brain is also way better at thinking into the future. I know that if I don't do the laundry in a couple days, we're gonna have a big problem. Kids brains don't work like that. Their ability to predict or care about the future increases as their brain develops. So you know how four year olds care about the future and how they need to be cooperative now because this other thing will happen in the future is wildly different than a 10 year old to 15 year old year olds and even a 25 year olds. Okay. I can predict the future or care about the future and that helps me like regulate through doing tasks I don't really want to do because I can see the impact that they're going to have. Right. Also, as an adult, I have the power to set up my life in a way where I don't have as many experiences as maybe other people do of not getting what I want. Y'all. I don't like being told what to do, especially if I perceive that person as not being out for my best interests or honestly not knowing as much about the situation or the long term needs as I know. And as an adult I set my world up in a way that, that works for me. I'm self employed. I don't have a boss. Right. When I was a kid, I might have been labeled oppositional. I don't know. I'll have to go ask some people. I knew when I was a kid. I didn't like being told what to do. And you knew it. You know, teachers, other adults, people knew if I didn't want to do what they told me to do. Okay, so what causes the nervous system to flip into protection mode and then Oppositionality is a normal behavioral response to being in protection mode. We flip into protection mode mode when our nervous system is experiencing more cues of danger than cues of safety. When we aren't experiencing felt safety is when we flip into protection mode. And we are taking cues from three primary places. The environment, our inner world, and the relational space. And There are approximately 11 million different bits of data, 11 million places. We're getting cues of safety or danger from just in the present moment. And then our minds are also taking what's happening in the here and now and kind of combining it with all of the things that have happened in our past to determine if what's happening in the here and now is safe or not. And all of us have a large stream of the past. All of us are actually making assessments about our current reality predominantly based on memory, not so much based on what's actually happening in the here and now. For folks with histories of trauma or toxic stress or other unique nervous system vulnerabilities, their kind of stream of the past is more like a tsunami of the past. It's being preferenced even more. And so when you look at your kid and you're like, but there's nothing unsafe happening right now. That might be true. There might be nothing unsafe happening right now. But actually, the way our minds construct reality, we are significantly less focused on what's actually happening right now and more on what has happened in the past. That's helping us interpret what's happening right now. If we take all that information inside, outside, in between, 11 million bits of data, and we combine it, everything that's happening right now with everything that's happening in the past. And if we combine all those things and we determine that we're safe, the owl brain emerges. That ventral vagal break engages. For those of you who speak polyvagal right, this is our social engagement system. Our connection to ourselves and to others is simply a feature of the system. Safe equals social engagement equals connection to self or others. If we are not safe. The nervous system will flip into protection mode and activate one of two protection pathways. The watchdog pathway or the possum pathway. Sympathetic nervous system or the dorsal vagal break. Okay. Connection to ourselves and others becomes secondary. It becomes what we're trying to return to once we've established safety. But connection and cooperation become secondary. Not safe Equals protection mode. Equals protection being the priority, with connection being the goal. Now, some kids have very sensitive stress response systems and quickly tip to the negative. Some kids are kind of always in protection mode. Right. Do you have a kid who seems like, always oppositional? Yeah, they're always kind of tipped towards danger. Danger towards protection mode. Some kids interpret things like a loss of autonomy as a cue of danger. And actually, we all experience a loss of autonomy as a cue of danger. But for some kids, the intensity with which this is experienced as a cue of danger outweighs everything else. And then, of course, some of you have kids who aren't soothed by connection. The connection isn't the glue that supports regulation to get through the hard stuff. Some kids are actually triggered by connection or more motivated to stay out of connection than return to connection. So of course, those kids have more oppositional behaviors. All of this comes down to these kids having very sensitive owl brains that fly away very, very quickly. Or they have owl brains that almost never, never return. So they are stuck in kind of low grade protection mode, the antidote for oppositional behavior. And that includes a child who has a diagnosis of opposition defiant disorder. The antidote is two primary things. Number one, we reframe it. First of all, maybe their oppositional behavior isn't something that can be fixed or should be fixed. But I also realize for that, for the majority of you listening, the intensity of the oppositionality is probably beyond a simple, hey, let's just reframe this, right? It's a level of oppositionality that is maybe dangerous or it's causing real serious disruption for your child and for your family. Even still, though reframing it is crucial. Reframing it away from bad behavior and instead as a protective response. It's a response from a nervous system that is not feeling safe. Okay, then the second antidote, after we reframe the behavior and see it for what it really is, is always increased cues of safety, increase regulation supports, and increased connection and co regulation. If connection is something that your child experiences as a cue of safety, okay, so the goal actually isn't even for your kid to become less oppositional. The goal is to increase the amount of time they spend Feeling safe. We wanna grow their owl brain because this is better for their health and for the way they move in the world. It's just better to spend more time in connection mode. If we stay focused on this, we are less likely to try to change. Like maybe what's simply their unique temperament. We're not trying to change behavior. We're trying to help their nervous system rest more. More in connection mode. Because a nervous system in connection mode doesn't tend to be oppositional. Cooperation emerges from feeling safe and connected. We are a social species, and yes, this is going to vary based on unique temperaments. Some of us have a higher drive for autonomy. We're motivated by connection to ourselves. Ourselves. And yeah, we like cooperation and harmony. But also, being in charge feels safest. Okay, so next week's episode, we're going to talk more about the strategies of how to be in relationship with a child who is exceptionally oppositional and maybe even has that diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder. Okay, so we're gonna talk about strategies, but I do wanna warn you, it's not going to be an episode about getting kids to do what we want. It's going to be an episode on helping kids feel safer in the world and increase their frustration tolerance for doing things they don't really want to do or not getting to do the things that they want to do. Then the third episode in the series is going to be about those of you listening who have kids who seem to be oppositional to. How do we bring felt safety when a huge kind of vehicle for felt safety is connection? If connection is the actual thing that's triggering the nervous system into protection mode, I know a lot of you listening really resonate with that. Okay, so before I sign off for today, really quick note about the diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder. Oppositional defiant disorder, or odd, is a diagnosis in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. I'm not super interested in getting into a debate about whether this diagnosis exists or not. There is no real agreed upon definition of what it means for a diagnosis to exist or not. Do some kids have such an intensity of oppositional and defiant behavior that it's impacting their life, it's impacting their relationships, it's impacting their health, even? And the answer to that is yes, of course that is true, that exists. The challenge with DSM diagnoses and the challenge with giving a child this diagnosis of ODD is that sometimes, I'm gonna maybe even say, a lot of the times giving a diagnosis seems to accompany an end in our Curiosity. And it really should be just the beginning. If I am working with a child, if I'm parenting a child who meets criteria for something like oppositional defiant disorder or even anxiety or depression, nobody's saying anxiety or depression don't exist. But giving a diagnosis based on observable behaviors, again, whether it's odd, anxiety, depression, or any other diagnosis in the dsm, when we give a diagnosis based on observable behaviors, that needs to be the beginning of our curiosity. Curiosity of why? What's driving this oppositional behavior? What's underneath these anxiety symptoms? What's causing this depression? Right? Sometimes we don't know the answer, but it's super important we always stay curious. The diagnosis itself doesn't tell us what to do, and it doesn't tell us why. And in the DSM in particular, we can find one diagnosis with multiple, multiple, multiple causes. And those different causes may require slightly different approaches. Okay? So with the diagnosis specifically of oppositional defiant disorder or odd, what I want us to do is not debate whether this is a diagnosis that exists or not. I mean, it exists. It's in the dsm, okay? It exists. What I want us to do is say, what is it telling us about what's happening for this child? Okay? It's telling us that their nervous system is spending too much time in protection mode. The treatment then is, how do I help this child spend more time in connection mode? And the truth is, is that a lot of the agreed upon treatments for ODD aren't actually things that are going to help a child shift more into connection mode. That's where diagnosis gets sticky. So if you have a child who's diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder and it feels like that accurately represents them, I believe you. What I want us to be really curious about is the why. Okay? The diagnosis, the label is just helping us identify the potential beginnings of a pathway towards what's causing these observable symptoms. And how do I address that? If you're listening as a clinician and you are working with a child who has come to you with a previous diagnosis of odd, and you're bristling at that. Notice that what you're bristling at isn't exactly that this child's behaviors have been accurately characterized, what you're bristling at is how that becomes the end of the discussion instead of the beginning of the discussion. So you have this beautiful opportunity to begin a discussion, a discussion about what does this label really mean for the state of this child's nervous system? And then what does that mean with regards to how do we help? Okay, so finally, if you go to my website and you put the word opposition into the search bar, an episode will come up that actually has the word opposition in the title. It'll be so clear. This episode's about oppositional behavior. Prior to today, there's lots and lots of episodes that discuss oppositionality, but none of them have been really clear that it's about oppositional behavior in the title. And I really wanted to fix that to make these resources more accessible to those of you who are searching. I'll see you back here next week for episode two. And then the week after we will do episode three, all about what to do if what your child seems oppositional to is connection. As always, thank you, thank you. Thank you for tuning in, for caring about kids, for caring about yourself, for being a part of this movement, this global movement of reframing behaviors so that we can still set really compassionate boundaries but see people for who they really are. Precious, amazing, overflowing with infinite worth. Because you know what? Then we get to also believe that about ourselves. And that's pretty cool. If you need more support, more places to go, you can go to the Start here podcast@robngobel.com starthere. You can grab my book wherever books are sold. Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors. You can subscribe to my email list. People tell me they get so much help just by receiving my emails or even just following me on social media. You can find me on Facebook where I'm Robin Goblemsw or on Instagram at Robin Goble. I also have a free resources page on my website which is overflowing with free resources. Videos, ebooks, infographics, all sorts of free things. RobinGobel.com freeresources and if you're listening, as a clinician, these are excellent free resources you can give the families that you work with. It's kind of my way of supporting this really, really, really intense work that you do. All right, y'all, thank you so much. I'll see you back here next week. I hope that you loved that episode of the Baffling Behavior show. If you did and you're wondering, where can I go to learn more or get more support? Or maybe you're a professional and you want to be able to bring this work to your overwhelmed clients. I have got three places for you to go next. Number one, my USA Today best selling book, Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behavior. A year and a half after publication, Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors continues to exceed our wildest dreams, breaking sales goals and getting feedback that it is changing people's lives. Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors is available in paperback, ebook and audiobook, which I read wherever you buy books online. The second way to get more support is to come and join us over in the club. It's an online community of connection, co regulation and yes, even a little education. We have over 500 members and you'll gain support from the wisest, most compassionate, most in the trenches with you parents in the world. You'll be able to pick my brain, watch over a hundred different videos and Download the over 50 resources that are uniquely developed just for the club and just for you to bring owls, watchdogs and possums into your family. And if you're a professional like a therapist or a coach, a teacher, an educator, maybe an occupational therapist, a daycare owner, anyone who supports the parents of kids with Big baffling behaviors hop onto my waiting list for the 2026 cohort of being with. It'll be our fifth cohort of our year long immersion into the neurobiology of big Baffling behaviors and the science of connection, safety and co regulation. You'll grow your capacity so that you can hang in the hardest places with families of kids with vulnerable nervous systems. And you'll finally get the professional support that you need and deserve to work with the families who keep being told by other professionals that they can't help them anymore. One of my goals is that families never hear that again. We'll be opening applications in the late spring or early summer and we'll be opening those applications only to folks who are on the waiting list. So be sure to add your name to the waiting list over@robingobel.com beingwith y'all. I'm so grateful to support you and be with you on this journey till next week.