How to Change Your Personality to Make Yourself More Confident | Dr. Shadé Zahrai

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Balance Theory

Episode: How to Change Your Personality to Make Yourself More Confident

Host: Erica De Pellegrin
Guest: Dr. Shadé Zahrai
Release Date: February 8, 2026

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Overview

This episode explores the empowering idea that you can change your personality to become more confident and fulfilled. Dr. Shadé Zahrai—a behavioral researcher, peak performance educator, and authority on confidence—joins Erica to unpack the science of self-doubt, doubt profiles, and practical strategies for rewiring self-perception. The conversation is a blend of personal journey, research insights, and highly actionable tools to help listeners overcome imposter syndrome and foster self-trust.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Can You Change Your Personality?

• Main Theme: Contrary to conventional wisdom, personality is not fixed; it can be intentionally reshaped through targeted personal development.
• Quote:

  “For a very long time, people thought, you cannot change who you are. But there's a big but here, a big if. It all depends on whether you choose to change some aspect of your personality.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (00:09)

2. The Role of Self-Doubt & Imposter Syndrome

• Self-doubt is often misinterpreted as a sign to stop rather than an opportunity for growth.
• Distinction between misalignment (you’re in the wrong place) and growth discomfort (you’re stretching in the right direction).
• Exercise: Ask yourself, "If I didn’t have these feelings, would I still want to do this?"
• Quote:

  “If you're doing something... would you still want to do it if you didn’t have the feelings that you currently have? … That’s how you know it’s misalignment of values as opposed to, yeah, actually I probably still would want to do it. In which case what you’re experiencing, that self-doubt... is just a sign that you're growing and stretching.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (12:25)

3. Overcoming Self-Doubt: Practical Tools

• Cognitive Defusion:
  • Change “I’m a failure” to “I’m noticing a thought that I’m a failure.”
  • Creates distance and zooms out perspective.
• Language:
  • The way we label ourselves greatly impacts self-image and behavior.
  • Switch labels to positive, e.g., from “I’m intense” to “I’m passionate.”
• Posture:
  • A single physical change—lifting your chin to expand the distance between chin and chest—improves confidence instantly.
  • Quote:

    “All we need to do is lengthen this distance right here and we will start to feel more, more powerful.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (21:48)

• Behavioral Feedback Loop:
  • Smiling (even artificially, e.g., with a pen between your teeth) can boost mood and self-assuredness.
  • Quote:

    “If you grab a pen and you put it between your teeth like this... you start to feel more confident.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (44:16)

4. The Four Trainable Attributes (“Doubt Profiles”)

• Dr. Zahrai proposes four attributes that shape self-image, all of which are trainable:
  1. Self-Acceptance (building self-esteem)
  2. Agency (belief in your skills and capacity)
  3. Autonomy (focus on what you can control)
  4. Adaptability (handling emotions effectively)
• Each person falls into a “doubt profile” according to where they are strong/weak across these four areas.
• Quote:

  “When these four personality traits combine... it creates what's called our core self-evaluation, which is how we see ourselves.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (22:59)

The Anxious Overachiever Profile (common among high performers):

• Low self-acceptance, high agency, high autonomy, low to moderate adaptability.
• People pleasing, outcome attachment, undercurrent of anxiety.
• Quote:

  “You outsource your worth to other people and you require them to approve of you in order for you to approve of yourself.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (30:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Changing Labels:

  “Anything that comes after I am becomes a label that we internalize and then we identify with—not helpful.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (33:25)

• On Comparisons and Counterfactual Thinking:

  “People who placed second and got a silver medal were actually less happy and less satisfied than those who received a bronze medal... Upward counterfactual thinking is what it's called.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (38:05)

• On Boundaries and Growth:

  "When someone is saying you’ve changed, it’s a reflection of them and not you... Just say, 'Thanks for noticing, growth has been a priority for me.'" — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (54:10)

• On the Power of Wonder:

  “There is a second step to gratitude... allow yourself to feel a sense of wonder towards that thing... This idea of wonder and awe, it has this undoing effect.” — Dr. Shadé Zahrai (49:31)

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Important Segments with Timestamps

• [00:09] – Can you change who you are? The challenge to fixed personality myth.
• [04:02] – Dr. Zahrai’s unconventional journey: Law, imposter syndrome, and pivoting to coaching.
• [12:25] – Discerning useful vs. detrimental self-doubt; powerful reflective questions.
• [17:34] – Doubt profiles and the science behind self-image.
• [21:48] – The posture trick for immediate confidence.
• [25:48] – Live “doubt profile” assessment of Erica; anxious overachiever archetype.
• [30:26] – Quick win strategies: intention delay, flipping apology to appreciation, and relabeling.
• [35:28] – Agency, automatic negative thoughts (“ANTs”), and combating comparison traps.
• [41:24] – The “victim mindset” and reframing with “what now?” and “could/will” language shifts.
• [44:16] – Smile hack (pen-in-mouth trick).
• [47:59] – The first three minutes of your day set your confidence trajectory.
• [49:31] – The second step for gratitude: experiencing wonder and awe.
• [53:35] – How changing environments and overcoming “you’ve changed” criticism fuels growth.
• [58:01] – Setting boundaries with family or loved ones resistant to your self-improvement.

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Actionable Takeaways

For Self-Acceptance

• Intentional Delay: Don’t say “yes” immediately—insert pause before committing.
• Apology to Appreciation: Instead of “sorry I’m late,” say “thank you for your patience.”
• Reject Negative Self-labels: Flip “I’m too much” into “I’m passionate.”

For Agency

• Challenge negative self-assessment by listing what you can do.
• Keep a hype folder—a digital (or physical) collection of praise/highlights.
• Reframe comparison: focus on what’s possible, use upward examples as inspiration.

For Autonomy

• When facing setbacks, change “why me?” to “what now?”
• Write down possible (“could”) actions, select three “will” actions, then do them.

For Adaptability (Emotional Management)

• Hack your body-brain connection: alter posture, smile, use physical cues to shift mindset.
• Practice savouring gratitude with a sense of awe or wonder.

On Habits & Routines

• Protect the first moments of your day: avoid phone/social media/email; instead, practice gratitude and mindful presence.
• Understand that daily habits compound into confidence patterns.

On Boundaries and Growth

• When loved ones discourage your goals, use compassionate assertiveness:
  “I love you, but when you say __, it doesn’t help me. If it continues, I’ll need to see you less.”
• Flip “you’ve changed” to “thanks for noticing—growth is my priority.”

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Final Thoughts

• There is no single ideal personality profile—the goal is continual development and recalibration across self-acceptance, agency, autonomy, and adaptability.
• Self-doubt is not the enemy; it’s a guide. Learn from it, don’t be defined by it.
• Growth requires both self-compassion and strategic discomfort—embrace change, boundaries, and supportive environments.
• Take small, immediate steps. Even language tweaks and posture shifts can fundamentally change how you feel and perform.

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Further Resources

• Dr. Shadé Zahrai’s book, Big Trust, offers deeper dives and tools (link in show notes).
• Free “Doubt Profile” quiz (link in show notes).
• Follow The Balance Theory Podcast for ongoing practical mindset strategies.

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The Episode’s Essence

Change is not only possible—it’s trainable. With the right mindset, habits, and boundaries, you can rewrite your doubts, own your narrative, and become the confident architect of your own life.

Transcript

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

For a very long time, people thought, you cannot change who you are. But there's a big but here, a big if. It all depends on whether you choose to change some aspect of your personality. Today's guest is a behavioral researcher, award.

[Erica]

Winning peak performance educator, and a leading.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Authority on confidence and self doubt. Joining me is Dr. Sharda Zahrai. We have a subconscious desire for other people to see us how we see ourselves. If you believe that you are worthy and valuable, you speak up in the meeting. You have more confidence. If you doubt, if you feel unlovable, if you feel like you're not capable, you notice all the things that back it up. Based on the four trainable attributes, we can determine how doubt is showing up in someone's behavior.

[Erica]

I know you talk about different doubt profiles. I'd love for you to diagnose me.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Okay, I'm going to ask you a few questions.

[Erica]

I haven't heard someone describe it in that way before and I think that's extremely useful. What do you find is like an everyday habit that people do that really wrecks their confidence?

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

There was a study done very recently which wanted to understand how does posture actually affect how we feel. So a really, really simple tool in the moment is to pay attention to one thing in particular and one way to help with this to get better at this is. So if you're listening to this episode, what you will gain by the end is a deeper understanding of why you doubt yourself, where that comes from, and specific actions and tools that you can take immediately to help you start trusting yourself more. You don't have to eliminate the doubt. You just have to strengthen the parts of yourself that are going to allow you to counteract the doubt so you can use it as a healthy guide as opposed to seeing it as something that tries to pull you down.

[Erica]

All right, balancers, welcome to another episode of the Balance Theory. I'm very excited to bring you today's guest because unexpectedly, we have connected 11 years ago at a time when we were at a very different period of our lives. And now we've kind of come full circle. She's in Dubai and I'm very excited to get to know her and really bring what she's passionate about to this podcast. So joining me today is Shadee Zahrai. Shadee, welcome.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Thank you. It's so good to be here.

[Erica]

I know.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

I want to full circle moment.

[Erica]

I know. I want to quickly share the story because I. So we have a mutual connection. I was one of these people at uni that would literally dip in, dip, out. I didn't want to spend more time than what I needed to. You know, we both studied law at Macquarie in Australia, and I had one friend, my friend Tally. And we would always just book our classes together and that's it. I was never part of any of the social clubs. I was also working at a cafe at the time. And we have now rediscovered that this happened because I completely forgot about this. You had come into the cafe and we were talking about law. And I actually remember this conversation now. You said, oh, my cousin studies law. And, you know, there's like thousands of people in that degree in every cohort. And I'm thinking like, geez, I don't know anyone at uni. And you're like, yeah, her name's Tali. And I was like, oh my God, that's my one friend. And so we had this, like really old picture we took together to send to her. I'll put it on the screen now if anyone's watching video. And then fast forward to like six months ago when I was like, looking at who was coming out for different events. I saw your profile, I'd seen heaps of your content and I saw that you were following Tally and I was like, what are the chances? Like, let me ask her how you know, how she knows this amazing, wonderful creator. And then she's like, you've met her. I was like, no way. And here we are. So it's just like such a cool story of like, how we actually connected so long ago.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

I love stories like that. Yeah, absolutely. And the fact that our journeys have been so different ever since law school and now look at what we're doing. And I love firstly meeting other people who also don't take the conventional path. And also just because I'd completely forgotten that we met too. So that photo was. Yeah, a great reminder.

[Erica]

I know. Glad we took it.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Yeah, me too.

[Erica]

Maybe it'd be useful to start with what has been your path. It was unconventional. You studied law, but then. Then what? Where did life take you?

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So I'm going to take everyone back because it's always helpful to know how I got into law and then why I'm doing what I do now. So I've always loved people. I've always loved understanding and just watching people. I was a massive people watcher. I'd go to a cafe by myself, order a coffee and just watch people. Little creepy. So wear glasses if you're ever gonna do that, so people can't see that you're looking at them. Fascinated by People and I remember from a young age that I would, people or my friends would seek me out for advice and guidance, which is funny cause I had as little life experience as they did. But I seemed to be that person that others resonated with to share what was going on for them and ask me what I thought. And I should have listened to that voice really early on, but I didn't think you can make a career of that. I studied psychology and law. The reason why I did law, it was going to be psychology because again, I love people. But when I finished high school I did very well. There were a number of reasons for that. My parents got divorced when I was about 15, 16 and my way of dealing with it was really dedicating myself to studies that distracted me. So I performed really well when I finished and then I had all this kind of external pressure to do something with my grades and I'm a massive people pleaser innately I think I was raised to be that way unbeknownst to my parents because I was praised when I was making sure everyone else was okay and I was being the good kid. So I had internalized that and of course I wanted to make everyone happy. So it was like law, engineering, medicine. I picked, I picked law. It was never the right fit for me. And from the very beginning, my very first tutorial, I remember sitting in class at Macquarie University listening to people throw out this legal job. I mean I had zero interest in that. I had no prior knowledge. They're throwing out what sounded like a different language. And I remember in the first tutorial we went around one by one and just shared our name and why we're studying law. I was so full of doubt at just introducing myself, I couldn't get my voice out, my heart was beating. So I mean that should have been an indication of the self doubt, maybe not the right fit. In any case, I had a crush on a boy in my class so I kept doing it for him. But there's an interesting story. I did go to drop it after my very first class because I was convinced this is not for me, I'm not going to succeed. At the time I didn't know it was intuition maybe telling me wrong path. It was just a lot of self doubt imposter syndrome. I went to the careers advisor and I said to her, look, I can't do this, Law's not for me, I need to drop it now. What I expected her to do was say, don't worry, this is literally day one, Class one. Give yourself Time, you'll figure it out. But instead she just kind of lowered her glasses at me, her reading glasses turned around, grabbed the course withdrawal form and gave it to me. Don't even think she said a word. So I took this form and I was thinking, wow, this lady doesn't believe in me either. And then I had the. Not a great experience. But then I had this very interesting internal voice which said, you need to prove to yourself and kind of to her that you can do this. So that was really the impetus. And then of course there was this boy which helped whatever reason to keep me in. So went through that process while I was doing it again so much imposter syndrome. Worked in a law firm. I was hiding behind my cubicle so people wouldn't give me tasks because then I couldn't mess them up. I was convinced I'd mess them up. And I spent so much time in the legal filing cabinet because I was away from people and filing was my safe space. So again, that's just an example of how when you're in the wrong space, every day is a challenge. I was feeling sick before work, you know, in the mornings. I actually developed all sorts of health problems and I was going from specialist to specialist. No one knew what it was. Some of them were just claiming, perhaps I'm depressed and I should go and see a psychiatrist. But then I went to one and she said, no, this is stress related. This is absolutely stress induced. So I shifted industries because I needed anything other than the law. And I went into banking and finance. Why banking and finance? I needed anything other than the law. So. And I genuinely thought that I can leave the self doubt behind me, I can leave it in the legal industry and go and reinvent myself and become someone new. That's not how self doubt works. It came right along with me and in fact it was magnified now. But because I didn't know anything about that new industry, I didn't know any terms, I didn't understand any concepts, I really felt like I was starting from scratch. So again, yet another experience of the imposter syndrome. Convinced I'm a hiring error, I shouldn't be there. And I had this meeting with someone who became a mentor early on. So I was chatting with a friend and I said, look, I really don't think I belong here. He said, you need to meet with Mel. Go and meet with Mel. And Mel was a senior leader that he'd connected with and she was just so supportive. So I reached out to her via email and I met her in a coffee shop internally. And I said, mel, I don't feel like I can succeed here. I don't know how to do financial modeling. I'm not good with Excel. I don't understand the terms. I really think I made a mistake. And she sat there and she looked at me. She said, sade, why are you focusing on everything you don't know how to do? You can learn these things. Why don't you focus on what you can do, what you do? Bring your strengths, find a way to lead with those, bring those to life, and everything else will fall into place. And that was this incredible pivotal moment for me because we know that, especially women. As women, we tend to magnify everything we cannot do, we don't know how to do, which then makes it feel much bigger than it is. And we forget or discount everything we do have, even. Even if it's things like curiosity, growth, mindset, enthusiasm, people skills. So that fundamentally changed my trajectory in the sense that I stopped focusing on the fact that I'm not very good at financial modeling, which I learned down the track, which was fine. And I started leading with my relationship skills. You know what's super interesting, and we'll get to the rest of the journey. But I came across research very recently in the last couple of years from coming out of mit, and I found that people who feel like imposters. So anyone who's listening right now, if you've ever felt like an imposter, you tend to have higher than average interpersonal skills. You tend to be much better with people. And it could be that we try and overcompensate with the connection piece because maybe we don't feel like we belong, but hey, we can feel like we can connect and then we end up performing better because of that. Because I think 99% of roles are people oriented. They are relationship businesses. And then everything else just comes from that. So that was. That was a little bit about my journey. I'll fast forward the last sort of five to seven years. I realized, okay, banking has been a great experience. I was there for seven years, but still not lighting my spark. I need to go back to people. So I was doing unofficial coaching while I was still at work in the last few years. I was speaking at a lot of events, just offering my services to get experience and see is this possible. And then I went out. My husband and I started a business where we work with companies all around the world, helping their leaders, helping their teams with emotional intelligence and communication. All of it is underscored by understanding what drives human behavior and how to help people get better. And I've just finished a 5 year PhD really exploring why some people get stuck and why others are able to just propel forward, create their own momentum, achieve their goals. What is it that they're doing differently and, and that's why I ended up writing my book, Big Trust. It's pouring in everything that I've learned to help people get unstuck and become part of that group that sets the goals and achieves the goals and are happy while they're doing it. That was a really long response to your question.

[Erica]

No, I think that sets up our conversation really beautifully and I'm definitely excited to get into some of the key things you've learned and practical ways people can apply that. What I find really interesting is the role of self doubt. I find often it comes up for a lot of people, self doubt imposter syndrome. You know, I think that they're two ends of a pendulum that are really signifying the same thing. We don't feel like we're meant to be there, we don't believe in ourselves, et cetera. How do we know if that self doubt is that natural response of like, we're out of our comfort zone, but we're just trying something new for the first time and it's kind of like a fear response versus no, you're actually in the wrong place. And it's a useful thing to listen to. Like, what is the delineation between when it's useful and not.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

I love this question because you're so right. That experience that we have with self doubt can be confused with intuition. Like when I was in the legal industry and I was feeling ill and I pushed it away thinking, no, this is just imposter syndrome. When actually if I had more self awareness and took the time, I would have realized, okay, this is actually misalignment. And so I like to encourage you to think of it like this. If you're doing something, imagine that you didn't have the feelings that you currently have. Would you still want to do it? Would you actually still want to do it? So if I didn't feel like the imposter and have the anxiety every morning, would I still want to work in the law firm? No, I still wouldn't. That's how you know it's misalignment of values as opposed to, yeah, actually I probably still would want to do it. In which case what you're experiencing, that self doubt, that fear response, that is just a sign that you're growing and stretching. And when you can see it that way, you can then lean into that discomfort. Because, you know, we know from the research when we're experiencing that kind of discomfort. That is the very time when neurotropic factors in the brain are being activated. And these are proteins responsible for learning. We actually don't learn unless we're experiencing discomfort. And when you're experiencing that, the insecurity, the increased heart rate, if you simply just tell yourself, my body is priming me for this, I'm going to lean into this because this is how I learn. That in itself can re engage your attention, re engage activation in the prefrontal regions of your brain, which then lowers the activity in the emotive centers and allows you to take action. Anyway. One other question that often comes up here is how do I know whether this self doubt is helpful? And telling me, hey, I need to be aware of these risks or whether it's actually completely holding me back. And I was reflecting on this recently, like what is the key difference? The self doubt, the thoughts themselves are not the problem. What is the problem is how it makes you feel, or rather how you let it make you feel and then how you allow it to influence your behavior. And I always say how you let it and how you allow it because this is a choice. So many of us are just leaving it to chance. And that in itself is a choice. In fact, going back to university, I remember in our very first class, it was jurisprudence, legal theory, and we did this whole thing about. I know, that's why I wanted to drop it. We did this whole exploration of ethical questions and it's like acting is a choice, not acting is also a choice.

[Erica]

That classic the train going two eggs.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Exactly. So when it comes to self doubt, we need to acknowledge we can make a choice that in itself is powerful. So you need to be constantly asking yourself, okay, I can have the thought, I don't have to become the thought. I can de identify from the thought. And one way to help with this, to get better at this, is to practice what's called cognitive diffusion. And essentially what you're doing is diffusing you from the thought. So rather than I'm a failure, I'm going to mess this up. You pause, you say I am noticing a thought that I'm a failure. I'm noticing a thought that's telling me I'm going to mess this up. You see how you go from I am internalizing to I am noticing. It allows you to view things from a different Perspective, you're almost zooming out. And this is also really helpful with emotions. I am anxious, I am stressed. We do this a lot, but then we're internalizing it and it sounds very fixed, heavy and permanent. So if you can say, I'm feeling a lot of anxiety, I'm carrying a lot of frustration. And again, what that does, I say, attention is a superpower. Attention is a superpower. And when you reframe things like this, you are regaining control of your attention and reminding yourself, okay, I am not my thoughts. And at the same time, I don't have to become my beliefs. Because what is a belief? A belief is simply a repeated pattern of thought that has occurred so many times that it has become a default. And then we claim it is who I am, this is just who I am. But it's not. It's simply a belief. And just like how beliefs can be written in the first place, we can overwrite them with new, healthier beliefs, which starts with new, healthier thoughts.

[Erica]

Some really practical things that people can do, they're starting with the separation from the thought. And that just comes down to the language you use. And I like that you've shared that, because often people like you, you're not your thoughts. Like, you know, if you're meditating or you're doing these things, it's sometimes a bit fluffy, if I can say. And you know, when you, when you can actually have something practical like add in a few words, so you're separating yourself. Like, I like that. It anchors me in, okay, I can actually practice this in a tangible way. And that question from the beginning to ask yourself, you know, would I still do this if I. If I didn't have all the emotions? That's such a clear cut, no BS way to be like, no, this is something that's aligned for me or not. Like, I haven't heard someone describe it in that way before. And I think that's extremely useful if we go a little bit further on doubt. I know you talk about different doubt profiles. I'd love for you to diagnose me and maybe like, teach us a little bit about what the different profiles are.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

For sure. So one of the things that I came across when I was looking into the research on, okay, there's a few pieces that I want to share before we get into that because it'll make more sense. Okay, so Maxwell Maltz, Dr. Maxwell Maltz, he was a plastic surgeon in the 50s, 60s, and he discovered that he would have these patients coming into him to fix some kind of flaw in their physical appearance, Whether it was their jawline, their nose, their teeth, Something that they had identified was holding them back, making them feel insecure. He would fix it. And their logic was really straightforward. I come in, I fix this part of myself, I look beautiful, my life will be better, I'll be more successful, I'll be more attractive, I'll make more money. Pretty logic, right? Makes sense. But then he said that's not how it played out. Most people would come in, get fixed up physically, they'd feel a little better about themselves, and then sooner or later they would feel exactly the same way they did before because they were still allowing the same thoughts and behaviors to come out. Because they hadn't updated their initial blueprint of how they see themselves. They hadn't updated their deep fundamental beliefs about how worthy they were, about how valuable they were, about their abilities. And so they just became a self fulfilling prophecy because of that initial belief, regardless of the physical attractiveness. So that made me really interested in understanding this idea of how we see ourselves. And your self image. And your self image is the blueprint for your entire life because we know that how you see yourself influences. And this is where we get to the interesting piece. Right. So we're looking at self doubt. And you know how I said earlier, it's not the thought that's the problem, it's how it leads to feelings and how it leads to behavior. Because your behavior shapes how the world responds to you. Your behavior shapes how the world treats you. If you believe that you are worthy and valuable, you speak up in the meeting, you have more confidence. People then reassure that because they're getting the kind of validation that okay, yes, this person is credible, et cetera, and you create this self fulfilling piece.

[Erica]

It's a physical manifestation of the way you think and feel about yourself.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Exactly, exactly. And so if we're not addressing the initial belief, then we're going to notice things that reinforce the initial belief. It's called self verification. We have a subconscious desire for other people to see us how we see ourselves. We're not even aware of this. So if you doubt, if you feel unlovable, if you feel like you're not capable, you notice all the things that back it up. And this is what was happening to me in that early, in those early years in banking, I believed I didn't belong, I was inadequate. I noticed all the things that I couldn't do because I wasn't even looking for the things that I could. So when we look at self doubt and Its impact on us. One of the other fantastic tools that we have, of course, there's the thoughts. You can start changing and reframing your thoughts. It's called cognitive shifting. But then there's also. What's that next thing? So what do thoughts lead to? Physicality. Thoughts influence our physicality. And what do we do when we're feeling insecure, when we feel like we don't belong, when we feel like an imposter? Our bodies are interpreting there's some kind of threat. Or rather our brain is interpreting there's some kind of threat. People are going to find me out, I'm going to get rejected, I'm going to fail. And whenever we perceive there's a threat, we either try and fight it, but in this case, we're full of self doubt. So we withdraw to protect ourselves. And we do that physically. We slouch, our head drops a little. We're trying to take up as little space as possible to protect ourselves. So a really, really simple tool in the moment is to pay attention to one thing in particular. And this changed my mind on what expansive posture means and looks like. I just realized the question was on the doubt profiles. And I've kind of gone here, but we'll get to the doubt profiles. So when you're feeling insecure, you've got the doubt, you've got the fear. Pay attention to just one thing. It's not about sitting upright. I mean, posture is really important. But there was a study done very recently which wanted to understand how does posture actually affect how we feel. What is what's called the mediator, which is like the middle thing that is affecting it. Is it the shoulders, is it how straight the spine is? It comes down to one thing and it's neck thickness, flexion. What is that? It's the distance between your chin and your chest. This distance here is what determines how you feel. When we drop our head, this action right here in the back where our neck is essentially as a flexion piece happening here with the joints, it leads us to feel more insecure, more doubtful of ourselves. All we need to do is lengthen this distance right here and we will start to feel more, more powerful.

[Erica]

I just felt everyone listening do a.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Big, suddenly do that, everyone. And it's a simple thing we can do. So that's the next thing. Okay, so let's get back to this idea of these profiles. So self image is important. How do you measure someone's self image? Like what do you even ask? If I were to ask you, you might tell me something, but if I were to ask the person on the street, they might tell me something else. And they're actually different things. So when I was doing my PhD research, I. I came across this one construct, which is four personality traits. And when these four personality traits combine, I think like Power Rangers, right? Like, they combine. When they combine, it creates what's called our core self evaluation, which is how we see ourselves. And so these four things we have self esteem, which is how valuable and worthy you feel you are. Self efficacy, which is how capable you believe yourself to be. Locus of control, which is whether you focus on what you can control and feel powerful, or focus on what you can't control and feel powerless. And then the fourth one is your emotions, your ability to manage and handle your emotions. These are personality traits. So when I started speaking. So we do a lot of work with leaders around the world, with teams. When I started sharing this idea of traits with them, because I was so fascinated by this, we got some really interesting responses like, oh, well, if it's my personality, I can't change it. That's just who I am. And it was this resistance. People didn't want to acknowledge that they can change because, of course, it's easier to just say, this is who I am. You probably heard it. I'm sure we all know someone who's like, well, I'm just the kind of person who doesn't do this. Exactly. So then we realized, okay, we need a new way to talk about this. I get it. I get why people say that. Because for a very long time, people thought, you cannot change who you are. Your personality is stable. And there is decades worth of literature and research that confirms that. Who you are as a kid in the first seven years becomes who you are for the rest of your life. But there's a big but here, a big if. It all depends on whether you choose to change some aspect of your personality. And in the last five or so years, studies have been demonstrating, no, you can actually change your personality, but you have to target it with what's called an intervention. Like, you have to intervene. So I thought, okay, how about we stop talking about it as traits and talk about the trainable aspect of that? How do you train your self esteem? How do you improve your self esteem? And that's through the habit of self acceptance or the attribute of self acceptance. And so in the book, I share what that looks like and how to develop it. And the idea is, you then build your baseline of self esteem. The next one is agency. The habit of Agency, what does it look like? Focusing on the skills that you have, taking the step, reminding yourself of everything you bring to the table and that you can learn new things. The third one is autonomy. Where are you placing your focus? How are you, Are you complaining when you experience a challenge or are you saying, okay, it is what it is, what next? That's autonomy. And then the last one is adaptability related to emotions. So how these come together, if you think of DISC or Myers Briggs or one of these profiling tools, it gives you basically like a profile or an archetype. And that's essentially what we've developed. We call it the doubt profile. Based on the four trainable attributes, we can determine where someone lies across all four of them. And then it gives us a bit of a profile or a archetype, which then helps us understand how doubt is showing up in someone's behavior.

[Erica]

Interesting.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So, Erica, let's interpret your doubt profile or figure out what it is right now. And for everyone listening, we do have a free quiz that you can do online. Okay.

[Erica]

If you go to link.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Yeah, fantastic. We'll put a link in the show notes. Okay. I'm going to ask you a few questions.

[Erica]

Okay.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Do you ever feel guilty when you take a break?

[Erica]

Yes.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Okay. Do you feel like you attach yourself to your performance and your achievement and your work?

[Erica]

Yes.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Okay. Do you, if you fail at something, do you become self critical and kind of take it personally?

[Erica]

I do, but I'd say this is something that's gotten a lot better.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Okay.

[Erica]

Because I'm being more aware of it.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Brilliant. See the trainable ability. Okay, so that's the first one. The second one is, do you believe in your skills? Do you believe that if you set a goal, you will be able to achieve the goal?

[Erica]

Yes.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Brilliant. Third one. Do you, do you ever find yourself complaining, blaming other people or becoming resentful for other people's success?

[Erica]

Yeah.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Brilliant. And then the fourth, do you feel like there is an undercurrent of anxiety that drives a lot of your behavior, drives your desire to perform, drives your. Oh, I actually forgot to ask you something with the first one. Do you have a desire for people to like you and approve of you and what you're doing?

[Erica]

Yes.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Okay. Do you feel like that's driven a little bit by anxiety and overthinking?

[Erica]

No, I think it's driven more from like early people pleasing tendencies.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Okay. What happens if someone doesn't approve of you? Do you ruminate on it again?

[Erica]

This has gotten better. I used to. Yes. Now it's a much faster process, but I think initially probably a bit of rumination.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Brilliant. And then how did you feel when you were ruminating?

[Erica]

Not very good about myself.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Not great. What's your current stress level like?

[Erica]

Pretty low.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Okay, great. Okay, so here's what I mean in this very, very short conversation. Here's how I would interpret your doubt profile. It's very similar to one of the most common ones that we see, which we call the anxious overachiever, which is someone. I'll tell you what the most common one is and then I'll tell you how yours differs to that. In the anxious overachiever, what we see is someone who is low on acceptance, meaning they people please. They seek the validation of other people. They attach themselves to outcomes and achievements. You know, if they're doing well in business or at work, they feel great. Suddenly things crumble and they take it personally. They take feedback personally. They're constantly looking to validate who they are based on the external world. Lack of acceptance, mid levels of agency. So they believe in their skills to an extent. Unless someone comes up and tries to undermine them or attack their credibility and then they become very shaky. They have very high autonomy, meaning they focus on what they can control. They don't complain, they just keep moving forward. Sometimes they have such high autonomy that they take responsibility for things that are not there to take responsibility for.

[Erica]

That sounds familiar.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

It was outside of their control. Super common. And then they have low to mid levels of adaptability, which is the emotion driver where they have this undercurrent of anxiety. So that undercurrent of anxiety is what drives the people pleasing. It drives the overthinking late at night. It drives the never ending to do list and never feeling like they've done enough in the day. That's the over the anxious overachiever. The most common in high performing, high potential people, especially across sales people type roles, leadership where yours is a little different because you said you've been working on things which is great because it demonstrates that you can fundamentally change these aspects of yourself. And the best part is the longer you do this, the more you're fundamentally changing your personality. Because again these are all based on. Yeah. So your. It looks like your acceptance is a little higher than what would be typical in that your acceptance is a little higher, which is good. It means that you don't spend as long as in those spaces of overthinking rumination. You just, you bounce out of it because you lean on your high autonomy. You're like okay, ruminating on this is not going to help. What's the action I can take? Your agency is probably a little higher than what's in that typical profile as well. Because you said you believe that if you set your mind to something, you can actually achieve it.

[Erica]

Yeah.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So that, that's how we would look at someone's doubt profile and then the best course of action for you would be, okay, well what are the really low pieces? It's the acceptance. And then it's going to be that undercurrent of you said you don't have as much of the overthinking and the hesitation, which is good. But if you can get better at working on that, it's also going to help elevate the acceptance and the agency. So this is how we would look at working with someone on determining what their doubt profile is and then the next step is, okay, well how do you develop them? And that's what I go through in big trust. But why don't I share a couple of very quick tips for everyone listening, depending on if they identified any of them, things that they can apply immediately.

[Erica]

Amazing.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Okay, so with acceptance low acceptance, I'll share just a few things. The first one is if you do not accept who you are, you outsource your worth to other people and you require them to approve of you in order for you to approve of yourself. What does it look like in behavior? Saying yes before you've even had a chance to think about what someone's asked of you? Not speaking your mind in a meeting, getting really nervous because what will they think about me? But I think this idea of compulsively saying yes is one of the most common. So what do we do if we're a compulsive yes person and then we end up completely over committed? This was me about 10 years ago. It probably still would be me if I hadn't applied the principles in this book. What we also know is that in the moment, if you can apply what's called an intentional delay, which means just wait a second before responding, you will actually make a far better decision. Usually people who struggle with acceptance, they would be asked something and even before the person's finished asking it, of course I'll help. Little did they know they've just committed their entire weekend to help someone with something that they don't have the time for. So what you want is take a moment and then delay it intentionally by saying something like thank you for thinking of me. Can you send me an email letting me know what you need and then I'll check with my schedule or can you put it in a text and I will check with my husband or my work or I'll get back to you at the end of the day once I've double checked it. You're telling them when you'll get back to them. You're creating that intentional delay. Hugely helpful, right? So that's the first thing. The second thing that's really helpful for people who struggle with acceptance is that they're often going to be over apologizers. I'm so sorry I'm late. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry about I. And it undermines their perceived credibility. And over time, if you're constantly apologizing for yourself, how do you think it makes you feel? It makes you feel like you were a burden to other people. So one of the simplest is to switch from apology to appreciation. So let's say you're a minute late. Now, I say a minute because if you're 20 minutes late, you don't want to be doing this. You need to apologize, you know. But let's say you're a minute late instead of I'm so sorry I'm late, where you're magnifying a deficiency, you would say, thank you so much for your patience. It's such a simple flip. But instead of lowering your status, I'm so sorry I'm late. Thank you for your appreciation. You're acknowledging a positive quality in that person and it makes you feel better.

[Erica]

I've seen this as a suggestion. When you're responding to emails, instead of saying like, sorry for the delay, you just say, thank you for your patience.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Exactly.

[Erica]

That's a really good one in terms of changing your, you know, a deficit for you and just changing to like gratitude for the other person.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So simple. It makes you feel better. Makes them feel better completely. That said, if you need to apologize, own it. Apologize. But for little things. You know, if I were to. I remember when I was working in corporate, I had a pen on my desk and it slipped off the page onto the floor and I said sorry. I don't even know who I was saying sorry to. It was just this compulsive thing. I didn't inconvenience anyone. No one noticed. Sorry. Grabbed it. So that's that. I'm trying to think if there's anything else really valuable for people who struggle with acceptance, okay, the other one is going to be labels. We slap labels on ourselves. I am boring. I'm such a procrastinator. I'm so lazy Anything that comes after I am becomes a label that we internalize and then we identify with not helpful. Often these labels were given to us in our earliest years by our family, by our siblings, by our teachers. And they might have said it once, and we completely internalize it. I had one client once, and she was from a big Egyptian family, and she was the youngest, and so she felt like she needed, you know, to get attention from her family. She needed to be loud and noisy. She was jumping on tables. She was yelling. So, of course, all her siblings called her too much over the top, and she internalized that as a label. Many years later, she's stepping into a role at work, and. And she goes to introduce herself to someone. She goes, hi, I'm so and so. I can be really intense. That was her introduction, and it's almost like she was trying to compensate for how she thought people were going to perceive her because she had internalized this belief that she developed from an early age as a coping mechanism. So in that context, I said, why don't you, instead of claiming, I'm intense, say I'm really passionate about what I do? Essentially the same thing behaviorally. And she said that moment helped her realize that she had been internalizing all the negatives when actually she was an entertainer. She really cared. And by saying, I'm really passionate about this, it also changed how people perceived her, which allowed her to accept herself.

[Erica]

Perceived herself.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Exactly. So it's huge.

[Erica]

Beautiful.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So there are a few tips when it comes to acceptance. If we look at agency. Agency is when you doubt your skills. Now, we know that the brain operates like a YouTube algorithm. You watch one thing, you understand the YouTube algorithm. Well, I don't think anyone understands the you could do algorithm, but we do know that what you watch tends to trigger more of that same content.

[Erica]

Sure.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So if you. And again, our brain is wired to magnify what could go wrong and the gaps to keep us safe. So a lot of us have a tendency to focus on what we don't know how to do in a moment. I can't do this. This is too hard. I've never been here before. As soon as you have one of those thoughts, your brain is more likely to serve you up more. Oh, yeah, you don't know how to do this, and you don't know how to do that, and that person's further ahead, and we get stuck in this negative thought cycle. It's called an ant. Okay. So when I had lived outside of home for the first time ever, I left a candy Wrapper on, like in the kitchen, on the table. Which is bad because I had roommates. I shouldn't have done that, should have put it in the bin. But I left a candy wrapper out. 30 minutes later I came back and that candy wrapper was covered in ants. I didn't even know we had ants in our kitchen. Clearly we did. And because ants will, when they discover some source of food, they will go back to their ant buddies and leave pheromones behind. So then all their ant buddies can come and follow the pheromones and find the food. We have these ants in our brain as well. Automatic negative thoughts. This comes from Dr. Daniel Amen. And the idea is you have one negative thought, and then suddenly you're flooded with all these other negative thoughts. So in those moments, if you know that your brain operates like the algorithm, you need to combat that. I don't know how to do this. With something that you do know how to do. I don't know how to do this, but I do know how to do that. And some of the skills, we call these essence qualities, some of the skills that are outside of that specific thing I can actually apply here. So I can apply the creative problem solving that I needed for that. I can bring that right here. The curiosity that I needed to succeed in that role. I can bring that to this. The fact that I ask questions no one else asks, I can bring that to this. And suddenly your brain will start serving you up. Examples of when you've done these other things. Really simple, fantastic to do in the moment. We've probably heard this a lot as well. The idea of having a highlight reel or a hype folder where you keep track of every positive piece of feedback you've ever received, every positive text, every piece of praise from your boss or your husband or wife or whatever it is, you keep it somewhere. And then when you're in these low moments, when you're doubting yourself, you come back and remind yourself of this. And again, it's like reprogramming that YouTube algorithm in the brain. One other tool that's really helpful for low agency. Do you ever compare yourself to other people?

[Erica]

Naturally, yes.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

And does it make you feel inadequate or do you find that it propels you forward now?

[Erica]

Propels me forward. Before, it used to make me feel inadequate.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

And it can very commonly do that because it's called counterfactual thinking. So there was a study looking at Olympic swimmers. Actually, it wasn't swimming. I think it was just individual competition generally, so not team sports. But individual competition. And what researchers found, it was first studied in 1995 and then replicated in 2021. They found something really odd was happening. People who placed second and got a silver medal were actually less happy and less satisfied than those who received a bronze medal. Very weird, very counterintuitive. And they proposed that the reason why is what would happen if you, let's say swimming, you've competed, or rather you've been training every morning from 4am for this one race. It's the race of your life. You get to the end, you find out you place second. What's your first thought?

[Erica]

I didn't come first.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

I didn't come first. I was so close. If I had just done that or done that or done that. Upward counterfactual thinking is what it's called. You fixate on where you are, where that is, and the gap, and you beat yourself up. Whereas what happens if you look up and you got a bronze medal? I made it. I almost came forth. I almost missed out. Because you're focusing on where you are and what you could have missed out, or rather where you are in the fact that you didn't miss out. And that's called downward counterfactual thinking. So whenever we're in a position where we're constantly comparing and feeling inadequate, it's generally because we're comparing ourselves against someone who is ahead of us and feeling like we're inadequate. We are unworthy, we're behind because we're not acknowledging where we are and everyone else, that is not where we are. Okay, so really simple reframe. In this moment, when you look at someone and think, wow, they are so far ahead, I'm never going to get there. Instantly shifts to, wow, they are so far ahead. How do I do a little bit of what they're doing to take a step in that direction?

[Erica]

Another one I like to add just quickly is like, that's also possible. You see what's possible.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Beautiful. And we know that when you see other people like you who identify with, who are doing things that you want to do, it does give you that boost of, they can do it. I can do it, too. What's very interesting here is if we also see other people who are failing and struggling and we identify with that, we can start to internalize that as well. So what does this tell us? Well, the guidance here is that you want to be surrounding yourself with people who are moving ahead and succeeding. And that's why mentorship groups are so fantastic. Creating communities of people who are on the same journey. Especially people who, when they fall, when they fail, when they stumble, they don't get stuck in the rumination. You want to see them bouncing forward and going, okay, it happened. What did I learn? How can I move forward? Because then you're more likely to do that, too. Because we know behaviors are contagious. Thought processes are contagious. If people believe in you, you're more likely to believe in yourself. All of these things are so well documented in research. So if we can find ways to create that for ourselves, we're going to propel forward.

[Erica]

Amazing.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So that's for agency autonomy. Not so many people struggle with this if they're high potential and if they're high performing. Because usually if you're high performing, it demonstrates you have high autonomy. You're making decisions, focusing on what you can control. But sometimes we have that little voice in our heads that says, why me? Why me? Why is everything so hard for me? Why does this keep happening to me?

[Erica]

Like a victim?

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Victim. 100%. And this victim mindset keeps us stuck. It makes us feel powerless because we focus on what we don't have control over. And then when you focus on what you don't have control over, you feel powerless. Do you know why? Because you actually are powerless. You are completely powerless to change things that you cannot change. And so you're digging yourself into a hole. So in those moments when you notice the why me? Instantly shift to what now? What now? You're going, okay, yep, I acknowledge this is happening. What am I going to do next? What is the next step I can take? And in that moment. So the moment we allow that why me? To come in, that victim mentality, what we see happening in the brain when they've looked at brains on FMRI scans, is there is an increase in activity in the emotive centers, which means that when we're on default thinking, overthinking the rumination, it's those threat detection centers that are firing, and we have less activation in the prefrontal regions, which we need for rationality and logical thinking. So if you can simply just say, okay, what now? And then there's a second part to this. You want to write down everything you could do, everything you could do in that moment. Because usually what happens, you're like, okay, what now? Well, I should have done that, and I should do this, and I should do that, we get stuck in the land of shoulds. How do you feel, Erica? If I were to say, you should do this, you should have done that.

[Erica]

How do you feel pretty bad about myself.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Pretty bad. The word should, it triggers what's called reactance inside of us. We don't like being told what to do. And that's why so many people resist feedback, even if it's positive, because we have this desire to feel like we are in control of our lives. And should, whether it's coming from someone else or ourselves, makes us feel guilt and shame and bad for ourselves. Studies have found that shifting just from should into could opens up divergent thinking. You suddenly have more access to possibility options, different pathways you could take. And then from there you go, okay, what are the three things of my could list? I've written 20 things I could do. What are three things that I will do? So you move from could to will, and you take action, the smallest possible action. Because every time you make a commitment and you fulfill that commitment, you're getting a proof point, Hey, I can do this. I can trust myself. And then the more you do that, that's how you build this really enduring sense of trust.

[Erica]

Amazing.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

And then, super quickly, fourth one, emotions. What is the best one for emotions? I touched on it earlier, this idea of posture, because of the behavioral feedback loop, right? So our body responds to what we're thinking, which then reinforces what we're thinking. And then. But there's another one related to that. If you grab a pen. I mean, there's a pen here, but it's not clean. But I will demonstrate for you all. If you grab a pen and you put it between your teeth like this, right? So you put your teeth on that, you'll be doing this with your mouth. What does this shape, emulate?

[Erica]

Smile.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

A smile. If you were to stay in this position. I remember learning this in my first year of psychology. And they got us all to put a pen in our mouth. They should have said, you know, clean your pen first. But they didn't.

[Erica]

Anyway, pre Covid times. Exactly.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Pre Covid, different world. The idea is that you're activating and contracting the same muscles that you would be using when you're smiling, which then triggers to yourself, hey, I'm okay. I'm safe, I'm happy. And remarkably, you start to feel more confident. And I put this to the test once, one of my very first boyfriends that I had, there was this situation. I don't even remember what it was, but I was very upset. And I went into the bathroom and I was looking at myself, and I looked a mess, and I just smiled at myself. And you can imagine, you know, the state I was in making this really fake smile. But then I actually started laughing because it looked so ridiculous and suddenly I felt better. So just the power of body brain. This connection can be remarkable if we learn how to leverage that. So if you're about to do anything, high pressure, right, Getting on a stage, a pitch, an interview, approaching someone you like at the bar, whatever it is, remember your body is going to reinforce how you feel. But you can then hijack that by demonstrating in your body how you want to feel. And then your feelings can catch up later.

[Erica]

Have a pen in your back pocket.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Have a pen in your back pocket. And some sanitizing wipes. Yeah, love it.

[Erica]

That was an incredible list of tools and tips for people to start thinking about, you know, where they sit in those different characteristics, which I assume, you know, then builds up their profiles. One thing I wanted to ask you. Is there like an ideal doubt profile we want to move into? Like what's kind of if we elevate all these skills, right, Is it just that we end up becoming the ultimate version of our personality? Or is there actually like a definable category within your analysis that we, we kind of move into?

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

This is a great question. So we wouldn't necessarily say that there is an optimal. I mean, ideally you want to be strong on all of them. The risk though is there is this idea of sometimes you can be too strong on all of them. So we know people who are extremely high on self esteem can. There's a certain type of narcissism where I'm better than everybody else. And so, you know, we do need to make sure that we're constantly, especially with like autonomy, what I mentioned, sometimes people who are really focused on what they can control, they end up taking responsibility for things that are actually outside of their control and personalizing things. What we like to say is that the goal of everyone's life really should just be to develop the kind of big trust that allows you to still show up and take the step and not get in your own way. And that looks different for every single person. But it really is a lifelong journey of strengthening each of these four things. Because it's never a once and done in our experience. It's never a once and done experience in the sense that, you know, you apply all the tools, you strengthen your personality attributes, and then life is perfect. Doesn't work like that. Things happen, life shakes you, life tests you. And so it's constantly recalibrating where you're at and knowing, okay, in this moment what is being tested. And then what do I need to focus on?

[Erica]

Yeah, no, that, that's really, really practical advice. In your work, through the coaching you've done, through all the talks you've given, through people you've spoken with, what do you find is like an everyday habit that people do that really wrecks their confidence or like leans them into doubt profiles that are not pushing them forward in life?

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

The very first three minutes of people's day shapes the rest of their day. So most people, I mean, what does the first three minutes look like for you?

[Erica]

This is not a good question. For me right now.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

I was, as I was, I have.

[Erica]

A very young baby.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Erica's not the right one to ask.

[Erica]

But, but before having baby, this was something I was very, very cognizant of and very meticulous with the first three, three minutes. Well, the first hour for me was no phone and I would wake up, literally get ready and go to the gym. And if I wasn't doing that, it'd be a meditation. So the way, because I know the power of how you start your day is how the rest of the day looks. So that was always very sacred, shall I say now my alarm clock is. I've got a milk meeting. So it looks a bit different but you know what? Same principles. I'm not jumping straight on my phone and taking to the world, I'm actually tuning in and focusing on what matters. So it looks different but you know, same kind of principles, I suppose.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

And it's great that you've demonstrated that you have been cognizant of it and you've made the change. So I used to spend my morning reaching over, checking the phone, quick email check, quick social media check. And then I actually would have ended up. It wouldn't have been three minutes, it was probably 30 minutes of me just doing that and I was wrecking the rest of my day because I would pick up on all the things I hadn't done or all the emails I still need to get to, or I'd come across some negative news and it would just change. It just shapes you completely. It was like affecting my nervous system which then shaped what I was paying attention to for the rest of the day. Not only that, the habit of having my phone next to my bed meant I was also at night, doom scrolling as a way to help myself, quieten my brain so I could get to sleep. And then if I happened to wake up at 2 or 3am from cortisol induced overthinking, I would pick up my phone again. So. So the best thing I ever did was actually leave my phone outside of the bedroom. But what I would encourage people to do is how you start your day, is how generally how your day will follow on. And one of the best things you can do in the morning is gratitude. What are three things that you're grateful for? Just remind yourself, say it out loud, even while your eyes are closed. Studies have found that just by listing things you're grateful for, it changes how you feel, changes what you notice, and actually increases your happiness over time. But I don't know if you've ever experienced this or anyone listening if you've experienced this. You get to a point with gratitude where it feels very transactional in the sense that you're like, I'm grateful for this. I'm grateful for my husband. I'm grateful you don't actually feel anything. Interestingly, studies show that that's fine. You don't have to feel anything. But I like to feel what I'm doing. I want to feel like it's having an impact. And that is where there is a second step to gratitude that I love to share. So, of course, name what you're grateful for. But the second step is to allow yourself to feel a sense of wonder towards that thing, about that thing. So instead of I'm grateful for my husband sleeping next to me, you'd think of your husband or your loved one and actually allow yourself to feel a sense of appreciation. Savor that moment just a minute longer. We know that this idea of wonder and awe, it has this undoing effect. I mean, how often do you stop and look at a beautiful sunrise or a sunset or take in the fact that it's such a beautiful day or the beauty of someone you meet? We live such busy lives that we're not allowing ourselves to savor moments. And a lot of the time it's because people don't feel that they deserve it. No, I have to get this thing done. These people are expecting this. I don't deserve to just take a minute. But if you can remind yourself, no, no, I deserve this. I'm going to take a moment to allow myself to feel that sense of wonder towards the things I'm grateful for. And it doesn't take a huge amount of time. But studies have found it has this undoing effect. If you're having a particularly difficult period in life, if you are stressed, if you're frustrated, if you're doubting yourself, having more awe in your life, savoring these moments can build up your sense of emotional reserve to allow you to be more resilient when things get really difficult. And it's so simple and it's something all of us can do.

[Erica]

It kind of reminds me of like when we were younger, like we just daydream, right? You just stare at the window and your imagination would run wild. It's almost like that was a byproduct of us being bored and not having tech on us 24 7. And I think of the importance of that and like raising children in an era where tech is so prominent, but also for myself to just let myself be bored and stare outside the window. And that's when you're most creative. Like for me personally, like if I go for a walk or something, I don't bring my phone. I couldn't care less to count my steps. It's about taking in the environment. It's about feeling the ground I'm walking on and like noticing the way, you know, I do try and do that because I find you just don't allow. Well, you don't have time, you know, in the schedules we have and the things we want to achieve. Really it makes no sense in the middle of like momentum and like you're on a roll and you're creative to just stop and stare out the window. You know, that doesn't feel like aligned for me in that kind of energy. But when I am taking that time to be outside or just have a minute, like to intentionally do that and create pockets, like is really powerful. If you can do it when you first wake up and weave it into like the practice of gratitude, that's such a nice way to do it. I want to end our conversation by asking you something personal about yourself. So you, like me, have left Australia and your career is sort of on a. You know, it's global. You, you work a bit everywhere, but you also live outside of where you were born and raised. I wanted to ask you for you personally and then when you tie that into what you've learned professionally, what's. What's been the role of changing your environment correlated to what you've achieved.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

I've always believed that for me, in order to grow, I needed to get away from everything that was familiar. And it's because my experience has been that when you spend a lot of time around things that are familiar, there's also this unspoken expectation that you will also stay familiar to those other people because it's largely people oriented. And I was finding that as I was growing, as I was changing, I would have people say things to me like, you've changed, you've changed. And they never really meant it as a positive. It was always a negative. And it made me feel insecure. And then I would feel like I had to prove to them, no, I'm still the same person, I promise. Look, look. And then I was doubting this journey of growth I was going on. I mean, I had family members say, you've changed. And so I always knew when I was doing my mba, so I was working in banking. I decided to do my MBA while I was still working, so I was still with the same company. But I knew that if I was going to do my mba, I needed to do it somewhere outside of Sydney. And I chose to move to Melbourne because I also knew, okay, MBA is the next stage of my development. I want to change up my physical environment so that I am free to become the next version of myself. And I'm not constrained by this idea of familiarity and also the people around me. And so that was for me, it's been a big factor of my journey to continually change where I live. I also like putting myself in uncomfortable situations. A lot of people don't move or change things because it's uncomfortable. You have to get used to a new environment, a new language, potentially make new friends, familiarize yourself with an entirely new space. I enjoy that because I know now that when I lean into this comfort, it gets easier, it gets better, and again, I can continue to evolve myself. Now, one thing I do want to share here, for anyone who has heard that from someone else, you've changed. It's very easy in those moments to allow it to undercut your sense of acceptance and feel bad about yourself. But when someone is saying you've changed, it's a reflection of them and not you. What do I mean by that? They are coming usually from a position of insecurity. You have changed. And now you're shining a spotlight on the ways that I have not changed or you have changed. And it's making me realize that I am being left behind. People like you to be in this state of, well, I know what to expect. It's predictable. You are that person to me. And when that changes, it makes them feel insecure. The best approach we have found is to respond with two words and then a follow up. Instead of, no, I'm the same person. No, I haven't changed. You just say, well, it's three words actually. You say, thanks for noticing, thanks for noticing. And then you follow up with, growth has been a priority for me. Or I've been focusing on that. And suddenly you take something which is otherwise a negative, and you flip it into this incredible positive compliment which also gives that person permission to change too, because suddenly they go, oh, okay, so that means I can change if I make growth a priority, you see? So it is this subtle reframe of taking something that is otherwise a negative, flipping it into a positive so that you don't feel less about yourself and you feel more empowered on your own journey.

[Erica]

And I think as well, by responding in that way, you're shedding light to the other person that it is a positive thing, which in turn, they can then shift their emotional state. And you know that that opens them up to being like, it's not necessarily a bad thing. Because I have. I have felt that friction, right, where you're trying to grow and change, and you almost feel limited by your environment, your circumstances. And I know not everyone is in the position or has the appetite to completely uproot and change where they live. Although I see an immense benefit having done that. I think it's very interesting to think about how that might be limiting you and little shifts you can make actually on that point. Think for those in an environment where maybe they do have those family members or people they do genuinely love and care about, maybe doubting their journey or maybe bringing that kind of energy. It's basically projection, right? They're projecting their own limitations on what they see for their life onto you, and you're on a path outside of, like that really practical response, which I love, which can in the moment shift what's like a real practical way you can set a boundary with or manage that relationship when it's one you genuinely love and you're not prepared to walk away from.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So this is where boundary setting is really important. And I think people have misunderstood what a boundary is. A boundary is essentially an if then statement, which. What does that mean? It's like, if this keeps happening, then I will this. So you need to tell them the behavior that you want to stop, and then what will happen if they don't stop? That's the part people forget about. They just say, oh, I want this behavior to stop. And then it doesn't stop because there's no incentive for it to stop. The challenge, though, is if you say, if this behavior continues, then I will. You have to honor that. Right? So if you have a family member, let's use an example. Let's say your mother, your, you know, your dear mom, I like. I'm not speaking from experience. So it's actually hard for Me to think of an example, but I'll use an example from a client. So someone's mother kept telling her, your goals are too big, Just lower them, limit them, don't negotiate for that salary, don't try. In that it's better to just do what you know how to do and stay safe and be happy, Be grateful, just be grateful. And I'm sure we've kind of heard some variant of that. And it was happening every time she'd go home because she lived, she moved away, which was great for her. But then every time she went home for family dinners or Christmases or whatever it was, it would come up again and it would make her feel guilty for the dreams that she had and also make her feel doubtful of whether it was possible for her. So she had to set a boundary with her mom. And she, outside of that environment, arranged to catch up with mom. She said, mom, I love you so much and I know you only want the best for me. When this happens, when you say these things to me, it doesn't help me. I know it's coming from a good place because you love me, but it's really not helping me. I want our relationship to be about this, this, and this. If you keep going on about this, I'm going to come and see you less because I don't like how it makes me feel. And then I don't like how it makes me feel about you. And I don't want that for our relationship. How. How does that sound to you? Like, what are your thoughts about that? So again, if it's a loving relationship, it's nice to give the other person an opportunity to then share. They may have had no idea.

[Erica]

Now, probably not.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

And if it's a healthy, mature relationship, they will say, I'm really sorry, I didn't realize I was having that effect on you. Okay, let's do it. Now, what will often happen is they will default and go back into the their usual behaviors. In which case you say, mom, do you remember how I had that conversation with you? It's happening again. So I'm going to reach out a little bit less. I want you to know this is really important to me. Your relationship to me is really important to me. And that's why, for our sake, I'm going to reach out less, show them a consequence of the action, and then you can slowly build it back up when you see that, okay, they're starting to respect that. Initially, they may not like it, but again, remember, you're not just doing it for you you're doing it for that person because you love that person and. And you don't want to become resentful.

[Erica]

Yeah.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

And that way is how you. It's you honoring yourself and you're trusting that you have needs and desires that deserve to be met.

[Erica]

Yeah. No, I think that's a nice way to do it. And it doesn't feel as strenuous as, like, you know, cutting ties or being really reactive in the moment when you let things boil over a bit too much and you don't set that boundary.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Exactly. And that's where the resentment festers and then we explode.

[Erica]

Yes.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

And then it can be such a big explosion that you create a stalemate and then no one tries to re. And then you just. You become estranged.

[Erica]

Yeah.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

So this way is a way to maintain a relationship while still setting a healthy boundary.

[Erica]

Yeah. Protect the relationship and yourself. I love that.

[Dr. Shadee Zahrai]

Yeah.

[Erica]

Shade, I think we're going to have to do, like, part two, three, four, five, six, because we have not had enough time to dive into bits today. But the big trust, it's out now. I'm going to put links in the show notes where people can get it. I'm very grateful that you've shared some time with me while you've been here in Dubai. It's been very nice to reconnect and nice that life has, like, pieces back together again so many years later at a time where you're doing something that's very aligned to what I'm really passionate about sharing. So thank you so much for your time coming on the show today. I'm very grateful and I'm looking forward to continue to learning from you.