Episode 376 - Collagen supplements, hair bonding and more beauty questions answered

Summary

Episode Summary: The Beauty Brains – Episode 376 Title: Collagen Supplements, Hair Bonding, and More Beauty Questions Answered
Release Date: October 7, 2024
Hosts: Valerie George & Perry Romanowski

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Introduction

In Episode 376 of The Beauty Brains, hosts Valerie George and Perry Romanowski delve into an array of pressing beauty questions from their listeners. This episode offers an insightful exploration into the science behind collagen supplements, the nuances of hair coloring and bleaching damage, the skepticism surrounding certain skincare claims, and the evolving landscape of beauty product sustainability.

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In-Depth Discussions and Insights

1. Industry Ethics and Consumer Responsibility ([00:00] - [06:33])

Valerie and Perry kick off the episode with a candid discussion about misinformation in the beauty industry. Perry highlights the dilemma brands face in balancing fear marketing and clean beauty claims, emphasizing consumer education as a pivotal factor.

Perry Romanowski (01:48): "That's capitalism and they're only doing stuff because people are buying it."

Valerie echoes this sentiment, arguing that while brands may sincerely believe their claims, ultimate responsibility lies with consumers to stay informed.

2. Sustainability in the Beauty Industry ([03:31] - [14:53])

The conversation shifts to sustainability, where Valerie expresses frustration over the beauty industry's push for sustainability amidst inherent capitalist pressures to increase sales. Perry adds a historical perspective, referencing the lipstick effect, which suggests that cosmetic sales can remain robust even during economic downturns.

Valerie George (05:07): "They being consumers and the beauty industry itself is demanding that the beauty industry becomes more sustainable. But it's like, how about you just don't buy stuff."

However, both hosts acknowledge that recent economic strains have challenged the previously held belief that the beauty industry is immune to economic fluctuations.

3. Collagen Supplements and Skin Health ([16:21] - [49:12])

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to debunking the myths surrounding collagen supplements. Perry criticizes the unregulated nature of supplements, questioning their efficacy and safety.

Perry Romanowski (17:36): "I never get over the fact that if you take a supplement, it goes into your stomach and it doesn't stay as collagen. It breaks down to the component amino acids."

Valerie counters by discussing a specific study that claims collagen supplements improve skin hydration and elasticity. However, she remains skeptical about the study's methodology and the real-world applicability of its findings.

Valerie George (21:43): "I'm unconvinced by this study that says, 'Oh, you should take collagen supplements to improve your skin.' You know, it's not going to be better than moisturizing your skin with a topical."

4. Listener Questions Answered

The heart of the episode lies in addressing six listener-submitted questions, each dissected with scientific rigor and professional insight.

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Listener Questions Breakdown

a. Hair Color vs. Bleach Damage (Valerio from Italy) ([22:08] - [26:20])

Question: Do hair color and bleach cause different forms of hair damage, and how can they be repaired?

Answer: Valerie explains that both hair coloring and bleaching involve oxidation reactions, primarily using hydrogen peroxide, which damages the hair by breaking disulfide, hydrogen, and salt bonds. The difference lies in the intensity, with bleaching being more aggressive due to added chemicals like persulfates. To repair damage, she recommends products that provide thermal and UV protection, hydrate, and lubricate the hair to prevent breakage.

Valerie George (23:14): "They're going to do the same types of effect on the hair. The difference is the magnitude."

b. Eucerin's DNA Fixing Claims and Denatured Alcohol ([26:25] - [32:34])

Question: How can Eucerin claim to fix DNA errors, and is denatured alcohol in their youth serum harmful?

Answer: Valerie and Perry dissect Eucerin's marketing language, clarifying that while the company references scientific concepts like epigenetics, they do not literally claim to alter DNA. Instead, they focus on the product's ability to influence gene activity through methylation. Regarding denatured alcohol, both hosts assure listeners that when used in formulations, it evaporates quickly and does not harm the skin's barrier, especially when balanced with other hydrating ingredients.

Valerie George (28:03): "If you look at hyaluron filler epigenetic serum...they don't say anything about like DNA changing or anything like that."

c. Resuran Skincare and CPDRN Technology (Sarah) ([32:38] - [37:04])

Question: What is Resuran Skincare’s CPDRN technology, and does it deliver on its promises?

Answer: Valerie critiques Resuran's CPDRN (Poly Deoxyribonucleotide) technology, expressing skepticism about its efficacy in humans despite promising in vitro results. She points out that marine-derived growth factors may not translate effectively to human skin, and the product's premium pricing further raises questions about its value proposition.

Perry Romanowski (35:36): "I don't see anything special in this technology that's going to make the products better."

d. SPF Rating on Hair Care Products (Kathleen) ([37:04] - [42:11])

Question: Why don't hair care products have an SPF rating, and which ingredients should consumers look for to protect hair from UV damage?

Answer: Valerie explains that SPF ratings are specific to skin protection and not applicable to hair. Instead, consumers should look for ingredients like cinnamidopropyl trimonium chloride, polyquaternium-59, and plant extracts with intrinsic UV-protective properties. However, she emphasizes that these provide a yes or no for UV protection rather than a measurable SPF value.

Valerie George (39:07): "That's literally the definition of SPF... Your hair doesn't burn like your skin, so they can't really give a SPF rating."

e. 3O Ethyl Ascorbic Acid as a Vitamin C Derivative (Connie) ([42:11] - [49:12])

Question: How effective is 3O Ethyl Ascorbic Acid as the most stable form of Vitamin C?

Answer: Valerie praises 3O Ethyl Ascorbic Acid for its improved stability compared to pure ascorbic acid and its effective skin penetration. She notes that while it has slightly reduced antioxidant activity, its ability to inhibit tyrosinase and boost collagen production makes it a promising ingredient for skin lightening and anti-aging.

Valerie George (43:15): "3O Ethyl Ascorbic Acid... is promising. It works through inhibiting tyrosinase, which is an enzyme that's responsible for converting pigment in our skin."

Perry adds that despite its approval as a quasi-drug in Japan, it hasn't received similar recognition in the U.S., likely due to regulatory hurdles.

f. Rebond Leave-In Miracle Bond Cubed Building Mask (Estefani) ([49:14] - [56:31])

Question: How does the Rebond Leave-In Miracle Bond Cubed Building Mask work to repair three types of hair bonds, and what are its key ingredients?

Answer: Valerie expresses skepticism about the product's claims to repair disulfide, hydrogen, and salt bonds in hair. She explains that while hydrogen and salt bonds are transient and reform naturally, disulfide bonds require more robust intervention to repair. The product's ingredient list includes standard conditioning agents and proteins but lacks innovative bond-repairing technologies. Both hosts concur that without transparent ingredient disclosure and verifiable patents, the product's claims remain unsubstantiated.

Valerie George (53:04): "I just don't believe it happens."

Perry Romanowski (54:07): "Consumers are impressed by the word patent, even if the patents aren't theirs."

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Concluding Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Valerie and Perry encourage listeners to engage with the podcast through reviews and social media while highlighting the importance of scientific literacy in navigating beauty product claims. They reiterate their mission to demystify the cosmetic industry, empowering consumers to make informed decisions.

Valerie George (58:10): "Be brainy about your beauty."

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Notable Quotes

• Perry Romanowski (01:48): "That's capitalism and they're only doing stuff because people are buying it."

• Valerie George (05:07): "They being consumers and the beauty industry itself is demanding that the beauty industry becomes more sustainable. But it's like, how about you just don't buy stuff."

• Valerie George (23:14): "They're going to do the same types of effect on the hair. The difference is the magnitude."

• Perry Romanowski (17:36): "I never get over the fact that if you take a supplement, it goes into your stomach and it doesn't stay as collagen. It breaks down to the component amino acids."

• Valerie George (43:15): "3O Ethyl Ascorbic Acid... is promising. It works through inhibiting tyrosinase, which is an enzyme that's responsible for converting pigment in our skin."

• Valerie George (58:10): "Be brainy about your beauty."

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Conclusion

Episode 376 of The Beauty Brains offers a comprehensive analysis of contemporary beauty claims and products through a scientific lens. Valerie and Perry provide clarity on complex topics, urging listeners to adopt a critical and informed approach to their beauty routines. Whether you're curious about the efficacy of collagen supplements or the validity of new hair care innovations, this episode equips you with the knowledge to make savvy beauty choices.

Transcript

[Valerie George]

Hi, I'm Valerie and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 376. I'm your host, Valerie George, and with me today is Perry Romanowski. Hi, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hello, Valerie.

[Valerie George]

On today's show, we're going to cover lots of questions, six of them, including.

[Perry Romanowski]

Whoa, six.

[Valerie George]

How can a cosmetic company claim their product fixes DNA errors? How does hair coloring and hair bleaching affect hair damage differently? Why isn't there an SPF rating on hair care products that protect from UV damage? What are your thoughts about Resuran Skincare? How good is 3o ethyl ascorbic acid, the vitamin C derivative? And finally, how does the rebond leave in Miracle Boost bond cubed building mask work? But first, inane chit chat.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, last weekend there was this industry event like, about, I don't know, the truth in beauty or something like that, and very interesting stuff. But a topic came up, like, you know, there was a lot of scolding of brands that were like, just doing what they call misinformation about clean, clean beauty and ingredient safety and such. And, you know, it just struck me, certainly that's, that's on the brands for doing that sort of fear marketing stuff. But on some level, isn't it up to the consumers to just stop being duped by? By what? Like somebody who's selling something is saying, I mean, there's got to be like a balance, right?

[Valerie George]

Well, the challenge is the brands who say these things actually really believe these things. That's the problem. And anyone can sit on their high horse and say how stupid these brands are for misleading other people. But if you had your own brand, I'm sure there's something you're not aware of. So I don't know, I try not to get too judgmental about it. And at the end of the day, yeah, it's up to the consumers to be informed.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's the, you know, it's a beauty industry. I mean, once you go beyond moisturizing and cleansing, you know, you got to come up with some story to sell products.

[Valerie George]

And people always want to say more, that's for sure, and figure out how they're unique over another brand. So I totally get it, but it's never going to go away. Snake oil salesmen have been around for.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hundreds of years, and that's why we are here to do our little part in educating the Consumers, you know, you can tisk, tisk all these brands all you want, but you know, that's capitalism and they're only doing stuff because people are buying it.

[Valerie George]

That's the one thing I don't generally like about industry panels is it's all people sitting up there preaching to the choir.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Why isn't there anyone who disagrees and just says, nah, I think they're getting it right.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know. Have you had me on a panel? Well, I, I can play contrarian on lots of topics.

[Valerie George]

I recently did have a panel in Florida that I spoke on and it was actually really cool. It was at the NASA headquarters. The Florida Society of Cosmetic Chemists put it on, invited me to be a speaker on this panel. It was a really well done sustainability summit. Although we did drink from plastic water bottles, but that's fine. Always room to improve, right?

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

Well, for the panel, you do a little panel prep, you meet your other panelists. I did say, are we looking for a little controversy here? Like, do you need us to agree on everything? Cause there's some things I disagree about. And just the consensus is other people in the industry don't like criticism. And so they didn't really want the contrarianism that I had to bring to the table. But guess what? I brought it in anyway.

[Perry Romanowski]

And for that you might not get invited back, but you gotta be you, though, you know, you do. You, you. And I did hear an interesting thing about sustainability. And I always think like, is the cosmetic industry unfairly thrown under the bus about sustainability? Because I heard this fact today about plastic bottles and you know, how many bottles, how many water bottles are bought every minute? A million bottles a minute.

[Valerie George]

I have a friend who worked at an Amazon fulfillment center and he actually boxed one water bottle that was purchased. Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow. But it's just amazing to me if you think about like how many bottles of cosmetic products are sold. Not that much.

[Valerie George]

Right.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's like pales in comparison.

[Valerie George]

The food industry, the beverage industry is for sure a much larger industry than the cosmetics industry. But it doesn't get as much spotlight, that is for sure. And the reality is you need food to live. You, you don't need beauty products to live. You need.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's all true.

[Valerie George]

Basic things you need, I believe a toothbrush, toothpaste, those are helpful. A cleanser is helpful, Sure, a moisturizer is helpful. It can alleviate some medical conditions, just having fundamental hydration in the skin. But anything else is ancillary. It's not really necessary for survival. And you know, they want the they being consumers. And the beauty industry itself is demanding that the beauty industry becomes more sustainable. But it's like, how about you just don't buy stuff.

[Perry Romanowski]

Companies do not want? Have that mess. I recall I was on a panel last fall, and that was one of the things that I mentioned. I said, you know, is sustainability really compatible with capitalism that wants you to get people to buy more and more? I'm not sure.

[Valerie George]

No, it's not. And I know I use a lot of products. I bought the Dyson Styling products recently. I'm gifting one of them to somebody. But you guys may be surprised to hear I haven't really bought much in the last. Well, since I moved to Texas, I've been on a bit of a buying ban. Unless I had to have the product for. For work.

[Perry Romanowski]

Her work. Sure.

[Valerie George]

Except for the Dyson products and except for the secred products that came out. But I would like to argue that those are for work. Okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

Of course. Well, you have this podcast.

[Valerie George]

Every product is also the Fenty products, but other than that. And I had to get them for work. Okay. I've been using what's in my cabinets. I've even been using supplier prototypes, you know, where they leave you a little cream or lotion. Oh, it has this ingredient in it. I've even been using those. And it's really nice to kind of slow down a little bit, get the cabinets emptied, get reacquainted with stuff that I tried for work or for other reasons and, you know, moved aside. We're even using things I made in the lab for customers. And it's kind of nice to work through all that. So I encourage everyone because we are at the beginning of the month of October. Maybe we do it this month, maybe we do it next month. It's a no.

[Perry Romanowski]

By November, it might surprise nobody that I haven't really bought a product.

[Valerie George]

I'm not surprised.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, you know, I still. I still have plenty. Although I will say this. If you are drinking water, just drink out of the tap. You don't. You don't need a plastic bottle. It's fine. A cup of water works perfectly fine.

[Valerie George]

Well, that's what I do. And my friend who is a dentist, totally supports this. Because of the fluorine. Fluoride. Excuse me. Because of the fluoride that's in tap water. Because it is really great for your teeth.

[Perry Romanowski]

It is. Speaking of great for our teeth, how about beauty news?

[Valerie George]

Beauty news? Well, we are starting to get in the time of year where predictions are happening, and it is my least favorite time of the year. Also my most favorite time of the year because we get to make our own predictions. That's my favorite part.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, we do and we do that later in the year, but it is.

[Valerie George]

Starting a little bit earlier and earlier. So we're not going to get into our predictions until more like December. But it's already starting in the beauty industry because they have to have something to talk about. And I thought you would really like this list of predictions for the next five years in beauty because guess what was on the list?

[Perry Romanowski]

Let me guess.

[Valerie George]

AI yes, AI impact on beauty products. I'm not even going to tell you how I feel because I think you know how I feel and I think our listeners know how I feel. But I really don't like AI Even though I developed a device that could take a picture of your scalp and your hair and use AI to detect anomalies on your scalp and on your hair to make a product recommendation.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow.

[Valerie George]

Other than that, I don't really like.

[Perry Romanowski]

AI Yeah, you are one of those, you know, some people might call you.

[Valerie George]

A Luddite, but Luddite, I forgot about that word. That's a great word.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. Well, it comes from, I think these guys who were like weavers and like the cotton gin came out and they were like smashed all the weavers because they didn't want their jobs taken away or something. It was quite a thing.

[Valerie George]

Classic.

[Perry Romanowski]

Anyway, in this article they the three things that stuck out to me, of course, the AI impact on beauty products. I think right now, honestly, as far as beauty products go, AI is just kind of a gimmick. Like I can't think of any data that would be helpful that's going to tell a consumer what product they should use because of AI. Right.

[Valerie George]

Additionally, on the formulating end, I don't think AI has an impact to chemists yet to make better beauty products.

[Perry Romanowski]

Certainly not better. Once it is, I would say it is helpful. Like if you don't know how to make something you, you can put an ingredient list in AI and it'll spit out a reasonable starting place. Not a good formula by any means, but you know a good place to start because it's been trained on like all the supplier data and they're going to say oh, use this percentage and.

[Valerie George]

That percentage or the mommy blogs.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. But even like the new chemists who come in and they have no idea what to make because usually what you just get a suppliers formula. I'll start with the supplier formula. Or you have an in house Formula that your company already has that you start from.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

One trend that I thought was really unnerving. Not unnerving, I just thought it was stupid. I was going to try to come up with a better term and I can't think of a better term. Ingredient Led beauty. Isn't that all we talk about is the star ingredient in this and the star ingredient in that? It's ingredients in the ingredient story has led beauty for a long time, since.

[Perry Romanowski]

The 1980s at least. You always had to come up with some. We call them hero ingredients. How is this a new trend?

[Valerie George]

Maybe Swiss Mountain herbs will make a comeback.

[Perry Romanowski]

Maybe. I do wonder, do you think consumers know more about ingredients? Because you know, everyone's all over social media and talking about specific ingredients and such.

[Valerie George]

I think it's a story that consumers are immune to. I don't think anyone is being like, holy cow, we have to go buy this product because it has Swiss Mountain herbs in it. That's going to revolutionize my skin. That's going to change the way my hair looks like. I think consumers are just like over hearing about these types of sensational hero stories.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right? But they hear something like micellar water and they're like, let's look for the product that's called that. But they don't know about the ingredients or even hyaluronic acid. They'll see it in a product. They're like, oh, I heard that it's good, so I'll use that. But it's not the ingredient really leading this.

[Valerie George]

No, not at all.

[Perry Romanowski]

The other thing they mentioned was the effect of inflation on beauty products. I mean, are beauty products more expensive than anything else? You're spend more expensive?

[Valerie George]

Well, it's a little hard for me to tell because I either get products in a goodie bag, I have to buy them for work. So I'm using work dollars. I don't necessarily pay attention. Sometimes I'm paying with points. But when I was most recently out of state at a manufacturing facility, I said, oh shoot, I forgot my shampoo and conditioner. And the Airbnb I was staying in that usually has some in there. She didn't have any in there. So I said, I have to go to the store and buy some.

[Perry Romanowski]

Whoa.

[Valerie George]

Granted, it was California. It was $11 for a bottle of mass market shampoo.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow.

[Valerie George]

And I said, is this what people are really paying.

[Perry Romanowski]

That'S up there? Yeah. But you know, if you think about a Starbucks cup of coffee is six bucks, your shampoo is going to last a lot longer than that.

[Valerie George]

That's true. But inflation really is having an effect because it is getting harder and harder for people to say, gosh, I'm going to go out and splurge on this if I already have something, especially with the way prices are going. I mean, I think in hair on the top end, on the premium end, there is a cap on just what people will pay, period, for hair care products. And someone spending 68 or $70 on a shampoo that's not even very good. I won't mention the brand name. There's a couple of them, actually. It's just like, you know, who's. Who's doing that. Those people are not going to be impacted by inflation for sure. Whereas I think on the lower end, it is making an impact. And I think we're seeing in the beauty space, on the raw material side, on the brand side, on the manufacturing side, the industry is still down 20 to 30%. It's just. It's not great. And you can look at estee Lauder and L'Oreal, their earnings not stellar.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. But you think this is an industry that's sort of immune from economic troubles because everyone's gonna wash their hair or moisturize their face, that they're not gonna stop doing that.

[Valerie George]

I read an article. Well, maybe our listeners know about this. It's called the lipstick phenomenon or the lipstick effect. Can you describe it?

[Perry Romanowski]

The lipstick effect is the suggestion that the cosmetic industry can kind of be immune to downturns in the economy because something like lipstick is an indulgence, but it's like an affordable indulgence. So it can make. You can buy lipstick even if it's expensive. You buy the one thing and it makes you feel better about yourself, but it's not going to bust the bank. So in that way, it's. The beauty industry has always been thought to be kind of immune to economic downturns, but apparently this one, it's not as immune.

[Valerie George]

I don't think it's immune. And I even read this article that the lipstick effect is going away.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I can see that also going.

[Valerie George]

Away, because everyone ends up losing their lipsticks. And if I had to add up all the dollars I've spent on lip balms, lipsticks that have just been lost to who knows where, maybe they're rolling around in old cars that I have still in the interior that you can't get to. I don't know. But that's a lot of money.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, I have this lip balm that I think I bought like eight or nine years ago. It's been in my ski coat and I just use it whenever, once a year when I go skiing. Still good.

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh. I saw another article that's going to enrage you. Skin benefits of collagen supplements.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh boy. This topic has been around for quite some time, huh?

[Valerie George]

And it gets you. So I love when something appears in the news about it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, you know, my basic fundamental problem is, first of all, supplements are unregulated and people shouldn't take them unless they've been doctor prescribed because, you know, you don't know what you're getting. You go to Walgreens or you're buying some supplement or boots or wherever you're going, cvs, it may or may not have ginkgo biloba in it. You know, you don't know what you're getting.

[Valerie George]

It may also have heavy metals in it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, it probably does. So I always think supplements are kind of a dodgy industry. And of course they got the DSHEA act pass just so they wouldn't have to follow the FDA's rules anyway. So one of the supplements that has been looked at as beneficial for skin, it's been touted forever, is collagen supplements. And I gotta be honest with you, I never get over the fact that if you take a supplement, it goes into your stomach and if it started out as collagen, it doesn't stay as collagen. It breaks down to the component amino acids and then that gets into your blood and that goes to the skin or goes to the liver or wherever.

[Valerie George]

Right, and that's where it gives improvements in skin hydration, elastic elasticity, smoothness, wrinkle reduction and pore size. Right?

[Perry Romanowski]

No, because your body doesn't know what it came from. Like say you ate a big fat of beef lard or whatever is. No, that's, that's fats. I'm sorry. Say you ate a big porterhouse steak or whatever. You know, the amino acids get broken down and that'll go to your skin too. Your body doesn't know where the amino acids came from. And so when you're taking a collagen supplement, it doesn't know that it was collagen when it first. Now this particular study tries to argue that in fact it does because they said they did a, this was a placebo controlled study of the effects of a collagen tripeptide and elastin peptide supplement on the skin of young and middle aged women over the course of eight weeks. So. Okay, an eight week study. All right. I mean, skin changes in eight weeks is not terribly surprising. I would also say this study was supported by collagen supplement maker.

[Valerie George]

You always have to ask if there is a study, who did this study, who sponsored it, why would they be trying to tell me the outcome of this information? And I think you can draw your own conclusions.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. And not to say that the scientists involved were not doing good science. Probably they were. But I could also see if this results came out the opposite, where there was no difference, or, you know, the placebo worked better than the control, then you'd never publish that. Right? You know, you, oh, I bought this study. It didn't go the way we want. We're not going to publish this.

[Valerie George]

They would have never published this if it didn't go that way. They would just say, oh, we saw no results. And the sponsor of this study would say, okay, put that in the never show it to anyone drawer.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right. It's the file drawer effect. Well, this methodology was they had 70 participants, 35 in each group. One had the collagen supplement, the other had the placebo group, which was a supplement. And then they measured skin changes like hydration, elasticity, transepidermal water loss, wrinkles, pore size. They also did a blood analysis for a glycine proline hydroxyproline peptide and a proline hydroxyproline peptide. So the idea there is to say, hey, some of those peptides, that collagen is not completely broken down. And so these. This tripeptide or this bipeptide actually demonstrates that collagen doesn't get completely broken down. I'm like, okay, well, yeah, but does that help skin? And then they say, of course it helped the skin because it showed improvements in hydration, elasticity, and the things that they measure. But, you know, I'm unconvinced, quite frankly. I mean, first of all, eight weeks, that's not. What kind of study is that, you know, did you look at the people's skin over the course of eight weeks to get a baseline of what their skin changes? No, they didn't do that.

[Valerie George]

Also, what about their personal skin care habits? I personally know if I'm taking a vitamin A supplement, heck, if I even drink a glass of water. I think I'm like, Ms. Fitness USA. And so maybe I'm more like, gosh, let me wash my face, let me moisturize, let me do these things. Because you feel really good that I'm taking this collagen supplement. It must be doing good things for me. What about that effect.

[Perry Romanowski]

But also they don't have the mechanism of action. So they have those, oh, we have the tripeptides in the blood. Or like, okay, did that get into the skin cells and does it ultimately make its way into the collagen matrix? They don't know. That wasn't study here. So, you know, I don't, I'm not convinced by this study that says, oh, you should take collagen supplements to improve your skin. You know, it's not going to be better than moisturizing your skin with a topical.

[Valerie George]

Although you could just eat a steak, too.

[Perry Romanowski]

You could just eat a steak. Like, what does collagen supplements even taste like?

[Valerie George]

I don't think they taste very good.

[Perry Romanowski]

I don't think so. Like, people making those collagen shakes or something.

[Valerie George]

Well, let's head over and answer some of our really great questions.

[Perry Romanowski]

Our first question comes to us from Valerio, and this is right in your wheelhouse. Valerie. Hi, Beauty Brains. I love you and your podcast. I'm a hairdresser. My question is about hair color and blue bleach. Do they make different forms of damage on the hair? So which damages are from hair color and which are from bleach? And what are better products to use for repairing for color damages and beat bleach damages, or is there any difference? Thank you in advance. And that's Valor Valerio from Italy. All the way from Italy. All right, so this hair damage, now I remember Crota, the company Crota, did a hair study, and they showed all of these. They showed four types of damage. It was like crazing, bubbling of hair, split ends. And they, you know, they had these electron micrographs of the hair, and it looked pretty cool, but. And they said, the only thing I said was like, the, the heat utensils are the ones caused hair blistering. And you see these big bubbles on the fiber. But as far as colors go and bleaching, what's the deal there?

[Valerie George]

Well, believe it or not, they actually don't have different types of damage. They have the same kind of damage. Because if you're using permanent hair color, if you're using lightener or bleach on the hair, you're combining the product with hydrogen peroxide. In effect, this is an oxidation reaction occurring on the hair. They're going to do the same types of effect on the hair. The difference is the magnitude. When you have a hair color, you have the presence of ammonia or monoethanolamine, and then that gets combined with the hydrogen peroxide. It creates this really ideal Damage, really ideal situation for swelling the hair fiber degrading some of the melon granules in the hair. Some of the keratin is going to get damaged from the hydrogen peroxide as well. The color is going to deposit, and then it's going to go with lightener. The same reaction happens, but you have an added chemical called persulfates. And these are really synergistic at oxidizing the melanin out of the hair. And this is also going to really aggressively interact with the keratin. So same type of damage. The effect is just really, really, really amplified because it's a little bit more aggressive chemistry. So you'll have broken disulfide bonds, broken hydrogen bonds and salt bonds, which are temporary, but you're going to have a lot more negative charges on the hair, which is a hallmark of hair damage from these disulfide bonds and these sulfur and sulfonic acid residues being exposed. Now, I will say I've never seen this with colored hair and a thermal device, but there is one difference that you mentioned with hair blistering, that if you have hair bleaching, obviously you have more damage. But if you took a thermal iron, a flat iron, and you ironed hair that had been colored and you ironed hair that had been bleached, you would have significant more damage on hair that had been bleached with heat exposure. It's like exponential. Oh, yeah. If you really want to trash and destroy hair for clinical tests, you always bleach it and then thermally damage it because the. It's just so aggressive on the hair. And so that being said, you would use the same types of products. But I will say if your hair is bleached, you should definitely look for more thermal protection. You should look for UV protection. You should be cognizant that products may be too heavy and they'll attach to the. You know, the products will be more affinitive for the hair because your hair is more negative charges. And so your hair might look more weighed down. You should use things that lubricate the hair more because your hair is more damaged. So it'll just be prone to more breakage and snapping. So that's probably my advice.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I generally would agree there. All right, there's hair. Are we ready for the next one?

[Valerie George]

Elena says thank you for your hard work combating fluffy marketing claims. Eucerin is selling a line of products that claim to essentially fix DNA errors, which doesn't seem very plausible. How can they get away with these claims? As a serious company Also, alcohol denatured is a second ingredient in their youth serum. Isn't that potentially harmful for the skin's barrier? Well, great questions, Alaina. We took a look at Eucerin, their claims and this epigenetic youth serum. And I will have to say at first I thought there's no way Usrin could be doing this. It's Beyersdorf. They have a lot of scientists, they're a big company.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

They do real research. And it's kind of funny because they didn't say these things, but they also said these things.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. If you go to their website and I'll provide a link in the show notes and you look up the science of this. This is where they talk about the ingredients. And I think it's very informative for consumers to know this because they don't directly say, oh, our products are going to change your DNA. No, what they do on the website is they talk about this technology and what they've seen there. So in a way, often a brand will talk about an ingredient and say all these great things about the ingredient, but when it comes to what they're claiming about their product, then they pull their punches. And they don't do that. All they do is kind of imply that our product with this ingredient is doing this thing. But if you look at the claims of what they are saying about the product, they aren't specifically saying this product is going to change your DNA.

[Valerie George]

So what they do is they set the stage. They say something that contributes to aging is called your epigenetics. And these DNA errors that can occur due to genes switching off and on.

[Perry Romanowski]

By external factors due to methylation. A process of methylation, CH3 gets bonded to the DNA and that prevents it from being transcribed. And it's. This is actual science. It's real, actually. It could actually have a big impact on skin in the future. But right now, as it's done in the industry, it's really just a marketing story.

[Valerie George]

Then Byersdorf Userin says, how does this ingredient work in relationship to epigenetics? They go through the science and that's it. Then they say, oh P.S. you can buy this product over here, this ingredient's in it. They don't actually say the product is doing these things.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. They're saying this, you know, you know, this epiclein can interact with the, the process of cells controlling gene activity, you know, without impacting the DNA sequence. So they're talking about methylating DNA. That's what it could do. And maybe they could show this in cell Cultures. This ingredient doing that probably, I mean, it's Beiersdorf. I'm sure they did their research. But when it comes down to saying what are they claiming about their products? What products? What they say this revolutionary new product is designed to reverse the 10 visible signs of aging. And so now this is where you pull your bunches. You say it affects firmness. Okay. So does you know what I'm thinking of? I worked on the brand St. Ives and we used to stop the seven signs of aging. So now we're up to. Now these guys are up to 10 signs. So lifting effect, wrinkle reduction, fine line reduction. That's reverse. But notice they say reverse the visible signs. Right. It's not saying we're reducing the fine lines, we're reducing the visibility of the fine lines. There's a whole different thing there.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. So if we look at the hyaluron filler epigenetic serum, which by the way, I actually had a little sample of this in a birthday gift that my cousin got me. She had got this little kit at a pharmacy. I actually like the use room products. I also have a bunch of samples for my dermatologist. They're awesome to like, I don't know, pick up 10 or 20 when you're.

[Perry Romanowski]

There and make nice products. Yeah. Of course as buyers door, if they're going to do consumer research, they got science. Yeah, it's going to feel great. Yeah. Is it going to work with this epigenetic stuff?

[Valerie George]

You know, I don't know. They did a large clinical study, product and use test with 160 women. All the claims are super soft on the product page itself. They don't actually, you know, they talk about this visible aging Perry just mentioned, but they don't say anything about like DNA changing or anything like that. Although they do have a picture of DNA on the bottle. I would just like to say that.

[Perry Romanowski]

I will say they. This company is certainly, you know, getting close to the line. I mean you could make it. I think someone could make a case that these claims are a little bit out there.

[Valerie George]

They probably budgeted for this in the launch. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so second ingredient is denatured alcohol. I don't think this is necessarily a big deal because the product has a bunch of other stuff in it. And this is going to negate any drying effect that the alcohol has. The alcohol is also going to flash off of the skin. Skin. It's not like you're putting a, a witch hazel toner on your face and nothing else. You know, you're Loading humectants on it. You're loading emollients on it. And so although it is the second ingredient, I don't really think you have to worry.

[Perry Romanowski]

No. And we talked about alcohol in skincare in a previous episode. Way long time ago. But essentially, alcohol and sun and skincare does not dry your skin. It just feels like it tightens up, but it evaporates up. And so there's no study that shows alcohol, despite what some famous brands have said, you don't have to worry about alcohol in the product, especially when it's formulated with all these other ingredients that would offset any dryness anyway. So I don't think you got to worry about alcohol in your skin care products.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Well, let's head over to our next question.

[Perry Romanowski]

This one comes to us from Sarah. Do you have any views on resurin skincare, for example, serums that have their special C PDRN technology, can it absorb with this delivery and then provides the link there? What do we know?

[Valerie George]

I'm going to be honest, I thought the letter D was the letter O when I first read this. And it took me a few times to be like, oh, it's cpdrn, right?

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right. It's like, does this say porn? Yeah, I can see that problem. Yeah. So rejuran is, you know, it's a standard technology play. They probably, you know, they had a term that they called, they had this pharma technology, the pharma research products is what they're called. So they're certainly going for a clinical skin care. So they strive to provide effective solutions to skin with medically researched dermatologists tested formulas. And there's nothing, nothing special here. So what's this cpdrn? This is the poly deoxyribonucleotide, which, okay.

[Valerie George]

It'S a patented marine growth factor. And growth factors are really cool because in vitro, there's a lot of great things that growth factors can do. They're how our stem cells and cells grow as we are fetuses.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure. But let me say this. This is a marine growth. So you put it on your skin to grow algae on your skin.

[Valerie George]

You know, algae is a humectant.

[Perry Romanowski]

It is. But you know, do you want it growing on your skin? I'm just kidding. The marine growth factor is not going to grow algae on your skin. But, you know, we are. Shouldn't there be like a mammal growth factor? Why are we taking marine plants and saying, oh, this comes from a plant. You put it on your skin, it's going to work the same way. It doesn't work the same way.

[Valerie George]

So it would be better to have like a synthetic human peptide. That's. I agree with that.

[Perry Romanowski]

I mean.

[Valerie George]

Okay, well, I'm sure it's a very lovely story. I'm sure the marine growth factor is patented by somebody. Could be exclusive to the brand. You know, the products look nice. I browse through them. But, you know, is it anything special? Is it setting the brand apart? It is sold in med spas, so that doesn't mean anything. You know, I don't know. The one thing that did bother me. I don't mean to be nitpicky, but basically they have a. A photo of their cream on the about page, and the fingernails that the product is pictured with kind of look dirty. And there's like a gross scab and a broken fingernail, like on one of the fingers. I just. I don't like that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, they might look to get an AI generated picture maybe because it looks like their lab picture was like a stock photo or AI generated. Nobody uses those pipettes in making skin. Skincare products with a. That's.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, with a micro.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's like biochemistry. Nobody use. We don't use a pipette like that in a cosmetic lab.

[Valerie George]

So it just. Yeah. And then you have this like, kind of authentic picture, and it's like, you know, maybe just like you should have photoshopped the cut on the handout. It just seems. I don't like it.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's a little nitpicky. Yes, that is true. I don't see anything special in this technology that you're. Is going to make the products better. But I'm sure they're perfectly fine products, and if you want to try them out, well, you only. It only costs up, you know, about $90 for some ampoules.

[Valerie George]

But don't you get free shipping on orders over $75?

[Perry Romanowski]

So. On one product. Yeah, because nothing costs less than 75. Now. This is 30 mils for $90. Sierra has been in $30 for 10 mils. Okay. Okay.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Bottom line, Sarah, I'm sure the products are fine. I don't have any evidence personally, professionally, neither does Perry, that the marine growth factor gets into skin and does anything. We just don't know.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's probably. It's probably a perfectly fine humectant, but.

[Valerie George]

You get free shipping, so there's. That reduces the risk.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, our next one comes to us from Kathleen. She says a few episodes ago you mentioned using sunscreen for gray and white hair to protect against yellowing. What Ingredients should I be looking for? One product I can find locally is Aveda Sun Care Protective Hair Veil. The bottle says UV filters help hair protection, but there is no SPF rating and I don't see any of the ingredients that I typically see in sunscreens for skin. Are there any products that you can recommend, Kathleen?

[Valerie George]

Well, Kathleen, sometimes you can get a styling product or a shampoo or conditioner that do use traditional sunscreen filters. And I just really cringe when I see that stuff because they don't stick to hair. They're intrinsically oily materials. They have no reason to attach to the hair fiber, and so they don't. There are a few ingredients you can use that actually are designed to stick to hair, but you're right, they're not going to have these conventional SPF filter names because they actually aren't sun protection factor materials. We'll talk about that in a second. You would want to look for materials like cinnamidopropyl, trimonium chloride, polyquaternium 59. These are two ingredients by the brand Crota that Perry mentioned that have do have UV protection data for the hair. There's also a lot of other ingredients. There's a sprout extract that has some pretty good UV protection. But bottom line is, you want to make sure the brand is advertising UV protection for hair, and it shouldn't come from natural materials like raspberry seed oil. Raspberry seed oil does have an intrinsic UV protective ability to it, but it's not going to give you real protection on your hair. The reason these products are not going to have an SPF rating, Perry, can you take a guess?

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Well, I think it's specifically because SPF means how long does it take for your skin to burn when you're outside with these ingredients on?

[Valerie George]

That's literally the definition of spf.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right? And you know what? Your hair doesn't burn like your skin, so they can't really give a SPF a rating.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Now, I always thought it would be cool. And if anyone takes this, I'm gonna know they listen to the podcast to have a hair protection factor. Hpf. I, like, totally worked it out where basically it's like, what magnitude of UV protection or visible light protection is the product offering to hair? And it would be a totally arbitrary scale because again, there's not a real scientific method for you to tell when the hair. Hair has been totally cooked by the sun. Now you can get the yellowing of white and gray hair. You can get brittleness, frizziness your hair basically will just appear really damaged, but it's not going to be anything that's really measurable repeatedly with any significance because everyone's hair really differs and so it's really hard to set this up. But anyway, you're not going to see the SPF rating. So you kind of just have to look at the branded clinical UV testing. And the way in which that's done is a tress is exposed to the product, then it's exposed to UV rays and it's compared to a hair trust that was only exposed to UV rays. And they measure hair breakage, they measure frizziness, they measure the denaturation temperature. They basically say, okay, is the hair like healthy or is it not healthy? And boom, it protects your hair from uv. So it's like a yes or no answer, not a how much answer.

[Perry Romanowski]

I did a study like this looking at the impact of UV on hair color. And we took our trusses outside to the roof of the building and we left them there for like a couple of weeks. It was a challenge to protect them from the weather and such.

[Valerie George]

But yeah, once you wash the bird poo off of them, you're like, yeah, I think it's still red.

[Perry Romanowski]

But there's also a UV fluorescent box that you can buy and that's often what people do. But you know, some companies won't buy those boxes and so you have to improvise.

[Valerie George]

Now, were you routinely allowed on the roof? This was like you could go on the roof or it was like, hey, we have to go up this like hatch, get on the roof. OSHO doesn't like this.

[Perry Romanowski]

We had to go through the hatch, but you got special permission just for this experiment. And we'd put the. Actually what we did was we would put the truss racks up on the roof when it was a sunny day and then we would keep them there and then we would bring them in at the end of the day so it had X amount of hours out in the sun.

[Valerie George]

Oh, so you wouldn't leave them there all night?

[Perry Romanowski]

No, not overnight, no.

[Valerie George]

Well, that's really cool. So anyway, Kathleen, I hope that helps you, you know, look for the UV protection claim on the product. Just know that it's a yes or no. It's not how much.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, exactly. Alright, we have a question from Connie. We are moving right along here. I would like to know your opinion specifically of 3O ethyl ascorbic acid. I asked a little while back, but no podcast mentioned yet. I'd be happy with an email as Everything I've read indicates that it is the most stable form of vitamin C. Thank you, Connie. Well, first of all, Connie, thanks for the question, but that's a great question. No, it is, and I apologize for the delay in getting it answered. She did ask a little while back. But you know what? This is what the benefit of being a patron is. Because if you get a patron question, we answer them as soon as we get them or like the show after they come in. So if you want a higher priority to get your questions answered, become a patron, which you can do. Go to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. We appreciate and love all of our patrons because you help us bring this show to you every week. All right. Ascorbic acid, A version that doesn't break down. Is that what we have here?

[Valerie George]

Well, it. It does break. It's not totally immune. It's not rock solid stable, and I hope it's okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

Totally immune, then it wouldn't work as an antioxidant anymore.

[Valerie George]

Well, yeah, that's true. Antioxidants are inherently unstable stable. They just are, because their goal is to react and capture these free radicals. So the challenge is the good ones are not stable. When you do stabilize them, you. You lose a little bit of antioxidant efficacy.

[Perry Romanowski]

So a lot of it. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

I hope it's okay that in this explanation. Perry, I talk about peer reviewed literature.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

Am I qualified to do that?

[Perry Romanowski]

I believe you are. Go ahead.

[Valerie George]

Are you qualified to do that?

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, I've read a few here.

[Valerie George]

And there, so, yeah, I'm just checking.

[Perry Romanowski]

Because you do get some training as a scientist. Sometimes that happens.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. 3oethyl ascorbic acid. I've actually had to use this before. It's a really cool material because it has the same backbone as regular old ascorbic acid. But they took a hydroxyl group and substituted an oethyl group, which means it's an oxygen with an ethyl group on it. And this makes it arguably more stable than ascorbic acid. But again, because we have that substitution, it has slightly less antioxidant activity. What I like about this ascorbic acid is there's good data for skin penetration, and there's even some papers where scientists have researched how can you get even more 3oethyl ascorbic acid into skin. And guess what? You can do it. They also have found that the optimum ph for performance in the papers. So I hope I'm allowed to repeat this. 5.46, which is a pretty high ph for an Ascorbic acid derivative. But guess what? That means it's more suitable for sensitive skin types. Because usually with ascorbic acid you have to have below Ph 3.5 in order for it to have the penetration and efficacy. And that really can be irritating to a lot of people. But nonetheless, 3O ethyl ascorbic acid is promising. It works through inhibiting tyrosinase, which is an enzyme that's responsible for converting pigment in our skin. Right.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's in the melanin synthesis bio reactions.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. There's a copper, iron, copper ion that's involved in that mechanism. And the 3O ethyl ascorbic acid quenches that copper ion. It also is shown to boost collagen production. It is a quasi drug for skin lightening in Japan at 1%. Anytime you hear an ingredient is a quasi drug in Japan or Korea, to me it means it works.

[Perry Romanowski]

Or they have the data anyway.

[Valerie George]

They have the data to show it works. Right, okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

But you have to say, if it's approved there in Japan as a pseudo drug, why don't they get like a drug monograph here in the United States?

[Valerie George]

I don't know the answer to that. Probably because of the large bureaucratic process that is getting a new drug approved in the US the expense.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's right.

[Valerie George]

Probably should be expensive, a couple million dollars. You do have to have animal testing to demonstrate that. So there's probably demonstrate safety. So.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

I'm guessing there's a lot of reasons why it wouldn't be. Maybe one of them is it, it doesn't work. I don't know. But I'd like, I'd like to think it does. I actually, there was a brand. When 3o ethyl ascorbic acid first really hit the market in popularity, I was gifted a brand products brand, I think it was called Sophie Skin or something like that. It's defunct now and it really is a shame because the products were really beautiful and I was happy that I could use an ascorbic acid type material and not have some of the drawbacks that I've had in the past with having rosacea or whatnot.

[Perry Romanowski]

Is that product defunct because two scientists with a podcast were making fun of their brand?

[Valerie George]

No, no, no. It's just. It's so hard to get stuff out. It really is. Anyway, there's some really good papers on this material. You know, some have proved it's tyrosinase inhibition, meaning its mechanism.

[Perry Romanowski]

So it would be good for a hyperpigmentation treatment. Then.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Also, this one study looked at using just 0.15%, which is a pretty low level. And it had really good copper quenching ability at that use level, which means it's going to work at that low level. It has a really low half inhibitory concentration for tyrosine, 0.75%. You can combine it with propylene glycol, hexanediol glycerin, single solvent systems, and it's really going to improve the penetration into skin, some sources say. If you look online, I could never figure out like who started this rumor, but it basically is has the highest ability of conversion to ascorbic acid out of any of the other derivatives, which again, I don't know if that's true. And what's nice is it just gets in the skin and works. You don't need enzymatic breakdown or some additional process. So I personally think it's a really great form of vitamin C. But over time it will turn color not as quickly or even close to as quick quickly as like regular ascorbic acid, but.

[Perry Romanowski]

It'S not like bulletproof, so it quenches free radicals. It doesn't do much for quenching thirst though. Right.

[Valerie George]

You know, I don't know what would happen if you drank it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Don't drink it. Don't drink it.

[Valerie George]

Do not drink it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of drinking it, it looks like we have one last question.

[Valerie George]

One last question. Estefani writes, how does the rebond leave in miracle Bond cubed? I think that's what you call it. Bond to the third Power building mask work. They say it rebuilds three kinds of hair bonds. But I'm wondering how, since they don't disclose the ingredients on the website, they also don't disclose what the patent is they claim to have. What is happening here?

[Perry Romanowski]

This is a very good question.

[Valerie George]

Well, I first would like to say a couple things.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

One, I'm so happy that as Mocra came into enactment in the United States, which is an update to our cosmetic laws, you are required to label professional products. So I think this is a consumer product. But they may have said it was professional only and therefore said we don't need to label it. But pretty soon they will have to. And we're going to find out exactly what's in it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it's hard to know what is in this. But, you know, I just look at who makes it and I know that they don't have any technology that say Procter and Gamble or Unilever or the big guys don't have. So if it was that great, they would just buy it from them. But. So I start out being a little skeptical, even not being able to see the ingredient list.

[Valerie George]

Well, I did find an ingredient list. I don't know how reliable it is. But before we go into it, is it possible that a product can repair the three types of bonds in the hair? So the three types of bonds, from strongest to weakest in hair are disulfide bonds, which are what gives hair its strength when hair is wet. And when hair is dry, we have hydrogen bonds, which is what gives hair its strength when hair is dry. And we have these salt bridges, or electrostatic bonds that give hair its strength when it's dry. Is it possible that this product could repair the three types of hair bonds, hence living up to its name? Bond cubed.

[Perry Romanowski]

I mean, hydrogen bonds, you can break those by just running your fingers through your hair or getting your hair wet. All right. Or get your hair wet. So anything can. Anything or repair quotes or whatever that means. Hydrogen bonds, the salt bridges, bonds. Again, you get it wet, that resets all those bonds. So there's nothing to rebuild there. You dry your hair. That's how you do that. So then it all comes down to, can this stuff repair the disulfide bonds that got broken? And I guess that's the claim that Olaplex types or the K18s have. You know, I don't know what's their. What's their bond building technology, but can it do that?

[Valerie George]

When a disulfide bond is broken, that baby is capped so fast. I don't believe any molecules can get in and rebuild a bridge. It's just really not possible. And there's a lot of things I am not allowed to say.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure, okay.

[Valerie George]

For many reasons. And I.

[Perry Romanowski]

Of course.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

So what happens is when. When a disulfide bond breaks, there's a sulfur is attached to a sulfur. That's a disulfide. When it's broken during the process of coloring or bleaching or even UV damage.

[Valerie George]

Or something, the sulfide flips out.

[Perry Romanowski]

The sulfur is just dangling around saying, I need my electrons anyway. So, you know, when it gets to the. Its electron, it steals it from a hydrogen. Because there's always hydrogen hopping around.

[Valerie George]

Especially if your hair is wet.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. If your hair is wet. Lots of hydrogen there.

[Valerie George]

And guess what? It's really hard to break and re. And say, oh, no, you break. Even though you.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sulfur hydrogen.

[Valerie George]

Very hard to break that bond.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes.

[Valerie George]

I just don't believe it happens. But these bond builders on the market, what they can do is interact with other types of molecules in the hair fiber. There are a lot of nitrogens, the hair fiber, and these bond building molecules can go in and create new bridges with those. And so that's what I think is really happening. So it's like, kind of possible that it can build bonds in your hair. And at the end of the day, the goal of building bonds is to make hair stronger. And I believe this product probably can do that. So I found an ingredient list, and I thought, gee, what could be this brand's patented technology? And I saw that it was fiberhance BM by Ashland. Hydroxypropyl ammonium gluconate, hydroxypropyl gluconamide. And I thought, well, that material sure is patented, but not by this brand. Oldest marketing trick in the book.

[Perry Romanowski]

Ah, yes. You buy a raw material from a supplier that's patented, and then you say with patented technology. Well, you know what we used to do with patents.

[Valerie George]

Okay, this sounds interesting and probably a little sketchy.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, say you want to sell a product. Consumers are impressed by the word patent.

[Valerie George]

On your product, which is why brands are using it, even if the patents aren't theirs.

[Perry Romanowski]

Exactly. Now, the first patent that I worked on, we had a coenzyme Q10 product, and it was a serum. And my boss wanted me to get a patent on this. So he's like, okay, take hydroxyethylcellulose, take coenzyme Q10 and figure out some reason that's patentable. And so I came up with this little experiment where I did different ratios of coenzyme Q10 and hydroxyethylcellulose. And I made little balls. And I could show if you put.

[Valerie George]

A certain amount the ball bouncing story. Oh, gosh. Yep.

[Perry Romanowski]

If you put enough coenzyme Q10 in the little ball, it would bounce higher. And you say, okay, well, that's patentable, like, because, you know, nobody's ever done that before. And so we had this patent of the bouncing of this ball, and we only got it to the point of a patent application, but since it was the proper ratio and that fit in with the patent pending, we put the word patent pending. We put that right on your product, and, you know, patent pending, you can leave that on your product for a long time, because patents take a long time to get approved.

[Valerie George]

Wow, that's classic. Sounds like something they would have done at VO5 look for.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, you know, that was probably more of a tresemme thing, honestly, because that was, you know, our upper Echelon brand.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm sure this product is really lovely. And when I look at the rest of the ingredient list, there's a lot of plant oils which are really great for hair behem. Trimonium chloride, which is a really nice, creamy, rich conditioning agent and emulsifier. Polyquaternium 37 gives lots of slip. Huge fan of polysilicone 29 for protection of the hair fiber. Phenyltrimethicone for shine. There are some plant proteins in here, hydrolyzed rice protein, hydrolyzed baobab extract. So I think it's probably a really nice product. Is it revolutionary? Nah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of revolutionary, I hear the music.

[Valerie George]

I know. I wish those cats were one of the four kittens, but I think three of the four are dead. I haven't seen them in a while.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, no. Really?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's just rusty and pretty kitty left.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, boy. That's. That happens. I'm sorry to hear that.

[Valerie George]

Cross your fingers that they show back up.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes, fingers are crossed.

[Valerie George]

Thanks for listening, everyone. If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review that's going to help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[Perry Romanowski]

And speaking of questions, if you have a question and you would like to have your voice on the show, just record it on your smartphone and then email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com Also, the beauty brains are on Patreon. If you like the fact that we can say what we want about brands because we don't take advertising, we do require the support of people on Patreon, and so we appreciate all of our patrons who help support the show. If you want to support the show and get your questions answered in a more timely manner, just go to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level.

[Valerie George]

We're also on social media, on Instagram, we're at the BeautyBrains 2018 on X worth of beauty Brains. We have a favorite Facebook page and a TikTok.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, you know, I'm a little off. I'm a little down on X now. It's. It's too hard to go there. It used to be so much better. Now it's just a. It's a mess.

[Valerie George]

Well, anytime they make one little change, I have an absolute meltdown and I have to, like, disappear for months. So I totally get it.

[Perry Romanowski]

There it is.

[Valerie George]

Well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks, everyone.

[Valerie George]

Kittens.