Episode 378 - Hair bonding, sponges, and becoming a cosmetic chemist

Summary

Episode Summary: The Beauty Brains - Episode 378: Hair Bonding, Sponges, and Becoming a Cosmetic Chemist

Release Date: November 15, 2024
Host: Perry Romanowski
Co-Host: Valerie George
Podcast Description: Real scientists answer your beauty questions

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Introduction

In Episode 378 of The Beauty Brains, hosts Perry Romanowski and Valerie George delve into a variety of beauty-related topics, addressing listener questions about the cosmetic chemistry career path, the necessity of safety seals on beauty products, the effectiveness of makeup sponges versus synthetic brushes, and the intricacies of hair bond repair products. This episode not only provides insightful answers but also shares personal anecdotes from the hosts' recent travels and experiences.

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Personal Updates

The episode begins with friendly banter between Perry and Valerie as they catch up on each other's lives following a brief hiatus of the podcast.

• Travel Tales: Perry shares his recent trip to South America, specifically Argentina and Brazil, highlighting the vibrant culture and the friendly nature of the locals. He mentions, “[00:00] ... Argentina reminds me of going out west to, like, Colorado or California. Lots of big mountains, lots of windy roads, and lots of animals.”

• Pet Stories: The conversation shifts to their pets, where Valerie expresses concern over missing cats at home, while Perry updates on the neighborhood porch kitties, noting, “[03:03] ... all nine of them made it perfectly fine without me.”

• Safety in Cities: They discuss perceptions of safety in different regions, with Perry emphasizing that “... places develop undeserved reputations about how scary or dangerous they are” ([04:12]).

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Becoming a Cosmetic Chemist

The first major segment addresses a listener's question about pursuing a career in cosmetic chemistry.

• Educational Requirements: Perry underscores the importance of having a solid educational foundation, stating, “[07:20] ... if you have a bachelor's degree in either chemical engineering or chemistry, biology, you can get into that way also.”

• Industry Standards: Valerie elaborates on the necessity of formal education within the industry context, “[08:08] ... a four-year degree is perfectly fine... if you're going to be formulating on the bench.”

• Advanced Degrees: The discussion touches on the value of advanced degrees, with Valerie advising that a master’s may not be necessary unless pursuing ingredient research, adding, “[10:45] ... you don’t need an advanced degree unless you're going into ingredient research.”

• Geographical Considerations: Perry points out key locations in the United States where cosmetic chemistry jobs are concentrated, mentioning areas like New York, New Jersey, California, and Texas ([13:20]).

Notable Quote:
Perry: “There are really no requirements to call yourself a cosmetic chemist... in the industry piece, though, you need a minimum of a bachelor’s degree” ([07:20]).

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Safety Seals on Beauty Products

An intriguing question from John concerns the necessity and rationale behind safety seals on beauty products.

• Historical Context: Perry recalls the origin of tamper-evident seals, referencing the 1980s Tylenol cyanide attacks that led to widespread adoption of safety seals in the pharmaceutical industry ([17:55]).

• Cosmetic Industry Practices: Valerie explains that, unlike ingestible products, cosmetics typically don't require safety seals because they aren't meant to be consumed. She states, “[19:14] ... beauty products are not ingested. And so people aren't going to go in and pour something in the shampoo.”

• Practical Reasons Against Seals: The hosts discuss practical reasons why safety seals are uncommon in beauty products, including consumer annoyance and additional costs. Valerie adds, “[21:20] ... it's not as dangerous. So I think the inconvenience of the seal and actually the cost of adding it outweigh the benefits.”

• Exceptions: They acknowledge that certain products, especially those sensitive to air or requiring secure shipping, might still feature safety seals ([20:00]).

Notable Quote:
Valerie: “You don’t have it with beauty products as much... because it's just not an issue” ([19:14]).

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Makeup Sponges vs. Synthetic Brushes

Becky's inquiry about the effectiveness and wastefulness of makeup sponges compared to synthetic brushes prompts a thorough discussion.

• Usage and Technique: Valerie shares her preference for sponges, noting their ability to distribute foundation evenly without excessive product waste: “[23:20] ... with a makeup sponge, it's kind of like sponge painting a wall. You can fill in all these nooks and crannies and stamp it exactly where you need to.”

• Product Absorption: She emphasizes the importance of pre-wetting sponges to minimize product absorption: “[23:46] ... the beauty blender directions actually specifically state to pre-wet the sponge before you apply your foundation to it.”

• Consumer Preferences: The hosts acknowledge that the choice between sponges and brushes often boils down to personal preference and application technique.

Notable Quote:
Valerie: “I'm a little familiar with them... My experience... a makeup sponge is just not super duper wasteful” ([23:46]).

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Hair Bond Repair Products

Shelley's question about the efficacy of hair bond repair products with minimal ingredients sparks an in-depth analysis.

• Ingredient Analysis: Valerie breaks down the four ingredients in Shelley's product, explaining the roles of diethylhexyl malate, oleal alcohol, alcohol denatured, and steramidopropyl dimethylamine in conditioning rather than true bond repair ([28:27]).

• Skepticism on Bond Rebuilding: The hosts express skepticism regarding the product's ability to repair disulfide bonds in hair, emphasizing the complexity of permanently repairing such bonds without significant chemical intervention ([28:55]).

• Alternative Strengthening Methods: They discuss other types of bonds in hair, such as hydrogen bonds and Van der Waals forces, that can be targeted for strengthening ([29:22]).

• Practical Advice: Valerie suggests that while the product may improve the feel of the hair due to conditioning agents, its long-term bond-repairing capabilities remain uncertain ([31:48]).

Notable Quote:
Valerie: “You cannot [repair disulfide bonds]... But there are millions of other bonds in the hair called electrostatic bonds...” ([29:45]).

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Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Perry and Valerie reflect on their upcoming travels—Perry heading to Thailand for a talk on hair technology and Valerie traveling to Chicago for a packaging show. They encourage listeners to engage with the podcast through social media and Patreon, emphasizing the value of listener support in sustaining the show.

Closing Remarks:
Valerie: “If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review...” ([33:15]).
Perry: “Remember, be brainy about your beauty.” ([34:32]).

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Key Takeaways

1. Educational Pathways: A bachelor's degree in chemistry, chemical engineering, or related fields is essential for a career in cosmetic chemistry, with advanced degrees offering limited additional benefits unless pursuing specialized research.

2. Safety Seals: While critical in the pharmaceutical industry to prevent tampering, safety seals are largely unnecessary for beauty products, where their drawbacks outweigh potential benefits.

3. Makeup Application Tools: Makeup sponges offer precise application with minimal waste when properly pre-wetted, though the choice between sponges and brushes remains subjective.

4. Hair Bond Repair Skepticism: Products claiming to repair chemical bonds in hair should be approached with caution, as true disulfide bond repair is chemically complex and often unachievable with standard cosmetic formulations.

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This episode of The Beauty Brains provides valuable insights into the cosmetic industry, blending scientific expertise with practical advice. Whether you're aspiring to enter the field of cosmetic chemistry or simply curious about beauty product functionalities, Perry and Valerie offer informed perspectives to enhance your understanding.

Transcript

[Perry Romanowski]

Hi, I'm Perry and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Hello and welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 378. I'm your host, Perry Romanowski, and with me today is Valerie George. Hello, Valerie.

[Valerie George]

Hey, Perry. Welcome back. I missed you.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I missed you, too. I've been gone a long time and unfortunately I wasn't able to get shows recorded and edited. So we've had a little bit of a hiatus. But we are back and we are stronger than ever. And on today's show, we're going to cover a lot of questions, including what is it required to become a cosmetic chemist? Why don't beauty products have safety seals on them? We've got questions about makeup sponges and the everlasting questions about hair bonding. But first, some chit chat. Yes, Valerie, it has been a while. I just returned from South America yesterday, had a lovely time in Argentina.

[Valerie George]

I was supposed to be in South America with you at ifscc, remember? But then I fell and hurt my leg.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, that's right. Well, I hope your leg is better. The show was the IFSCC congress in Brazil. And actually I met a few people who listened to the show. So that was very cool.

[Valerie George]

Cool.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it was wonderful. And the Brazil was wonderful. And then after that, I went to Argentina, and Argentina reminds me of going out west to, like, Colorado or California. Lots of big mountains, lots of windy roads, and lots of animals.

[Valerie George]

Wow. Very cool. Well, I'm glad you're back. I. As I said, I really missed you. I had to do a solo episode, except I was too scared to do it. So I had Sarah Bellum come on with me.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That was a fun one to listen to. And I am happy to be back. You know, in Argentina, they have a bit of a different relationship with their pets, specifically dogs. There are dogs everywhere.

[Valerie George]

I love it.

[Perry Romanowski]

It seems like there's a dog for every person who lives there. There are dogs everywhere.

[Valerie George]

What about cats?

[Perry Romanowski]

There were a few cats, just much fewer cats. If you go to Europe, there's cats everywhere, but Argentina, just dogs everywhere. And the dogs will just. They don't. They're not on leashes. And you go into a restaurant and there'll just be like three or four random dogs sitting around under tables and such. So if you, if you go to Argentina, you should like dogs. Fortunately, I do like dogs there.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, very good. I would absolutely love it there.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah.

[Valerie George]

I haven't been up to much. Just the, you know, usual old stuff. The cats are missing. I think Pretty Kitty and the kittens are dead. You know, I told you we have that fox. Yeah. It's just not a good situation. So.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's the hard life of an outdoor cat. Well, you know, I was gone for over three weeks, and so I actually worry about the porch kitties. But I came back. I've seen all nine of them, so they all. They all made it perfectly fine without me. Fortunately, my neighbors all feed them, too. But they seem to miss me, especially Lil Blue. She's super friendly now where she wasn't before.

[Valerie George]

Wow. So they actually. She said hi to you and was like, meow, I miss you.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. No, she rubs up against me. She lets me pick her up, which she doesn't usually do that before, so.

[Valerie George]

Well, when Pretty Kitty disappeared, I thought maybe she was mad at me because I touched her.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh.

[Valerie George]

And, yeah, she didn't like when I did that. But, no, I think either someone done stole her, or most likely, you know, we have that silver fox living out on the prairie behind us. And sure, I think they got her just like they got Stash.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, that Especially a place out where you live, which is more wild than where I live in the city here.

[Valerie George]

Chicago's pretty wild, but different kind of wild.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, you know, my neighborhood is pretty quiet. It's almost like being in the suburbs where I live. So that's the thing about. Whenever you hear about cities, about how dangerous stuff is, it's really. You know, cities are so big, and there's spots where some places are more dangerous than others. And it's not so simple to say that. In fact, people ask me if I was worried about going to South America and, you know, Argentina or Brazil and, you know, I felt perfectly safe walking around the cities and the towns, and everybody was really friendly. So I think sometimes places develop undeserved reputations about how scary or dangerous they are, because when you actually go there, they're just like everywhere else you go, at least as far as interacting with people.

[Valerie George]

There's one exception. I would say the Darien Jungle. I think that's probably as dangerous as they say it is. The Darien Jungle, the gap between South America and Central America.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Valerie George]

The Darien Gap, of course.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes, of course. Having said, everything seems safe. It was where I went. Everything seems safe. So generally, if you stay around civilization, you know, it should probably be okay for you. All right, are we ready to do some questions?

[Valerie George]

We are.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I would do some news, but, you know, I've been traveling, and I gotta be honest with you, you know, I kind of disconnected. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna be on vacation. I'm not gonna look at anything. And so I haven't. So this'll be just questions, and we got a bunch.

[Valerie George]

Well, you know, there wasn't much news while you were gone, but our first question comes to us, Patron on Patreon. Bri. Hi, Beauty brains. Love listening to your podcast. I'm a fairly new listener, and I'm finishing up my degree in chemical engineering. Was wondering if you could answer some questions about cosmetic chemistry in the career pathway using what you know. Now, what would be required to become a cosmetic chemist? Do you have to be in a certain area of the United States? Also, is formulating achievable with only a bachelor's degree? I have more questions, but I'm trying to narrow it down. Thanks in advance, Bree.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I love these career questions. In fact, on my website, Chemist Corner, we talk a lot about a cosmetic chemist career. And I kind of started the website to teach people who have a science degree background how to get into the industry, so covered that a lot. The first thing that's notable is that there are really no requirement to call yourself a cosmetic chemist. Right. There's lots of people online who just say, oh, I'm a cosmetic chemist, because they learn formulating from YouTube videos and they mix stuff together. And, you know, on some level, they are cosmetic chemists because they're making cosmetics. On the other hand, it's. If you're, you know, if you learn how to cook something from a YouTube video, you can call yourself a cook. Is that the same as being a chef?

[Valerie George]

I don't know.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's complicated. Yeah, but there's no definition of what's a cosmetic chemist. Anybody can call themselves that. And, you know, online, unfortunately, some people do. But in the industry piece, though, you need a minimum of a bachelor's degree in either chemical engineering or chemistry. Biology, you can get into that way also. And, you know, actually I worked with somebody who had an anthropology degree, so some sort of science degree, mostly chemistry or chemical engineering.

[Valerie George]

And I would even say that when we're talking about, you know, becoming a cosmetic chemist, we're talking about being able to be employed by a real company that has chemists. They make products. They are a lab that formulates products for other manufacturers, some kind of real company in the industry. This is what we're talking about.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Because the other option, though, is that you learn how to formulate stuff, mix stuff in your kitchen and you know, you can learn to make stuff. It's, it's not, it's not that hard. And you can get access to the chemicals, then you can hang a shingle outside your door, start a consulting business and say, I'm a cosmetic chemist and I'll formulate for you. And you know, you are a cosmetic chemist, but it's different working for a company as a cosmetic chemist rather than working for individuals who will give you jobs as a cosmetic chemist. So there, there is a difference. We're going to be talking specifically about how do you get a job in industry.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. I think a four year degree is perfectly fine. As Perry said, chemistry, biochemistry, biology, preferably. If you're going to be formulating on the bench. This is because you actually need to have a good chemistry foundation to formulate properly. I think you can teach yourself how to formulate a shampoo, but if you run into a problem or you have to make a change and you don't understand the basic chemistry of what you're doing, you're going to have issues. I think chemistry is really important. The reason I mentioned biochemistry is because you get a little biology as well. And if you're going to be formulating skincare or hair care, having a biology foundation I think is really important to understand what's happening on the skin when you're reading scientific papers, etc. But chemical engineering is totally fine as well. Although I found that when I've had chemical engineering interns or people that have been hired into the industry with a chemical engineering background and they're trying to formulate, I think they're often missing a lot of the, the pieces of wet chemistry. But they do really well in the manufacturing end because they know how to scale up. How much heat is it going to lose going through this pipe, how much shear to apply to this big tank. So chemical engineering is really great. If you want to, I'll call it in air quotes, formulate on a bigger scale, which is how do you take a little tiny formula in a beaker and go to production?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I will tell you that there are some companies, some big companies that prefer to hire chemical engineers and then they will run them through an internal training program to teach them how to formulate. So it just becomes like a corporate preference. But there are some big corporations that prefer chemical engineers. I have a degree in chemistry, biochemistry, not chemical engineering. I think most of the people that I met in the industry have chemistry degrees. But just Just know that chemical engineering is preferred by some big corporations.

[Valerie George]

And I also don't think you need an advanced degree unless you're going into ingredient research. If you're doing fundamental research at a larger corporation like a L'Oreal or an Estee Lauder maybe. But if you just want to be a formulator or work at, you know, a regular old brand on the bench, I personally don't think it's necessary unless you want to be at one of those big corporations that requires it. In fact, I think you learn more on the job than you even do in the master's programs that are available. I've had students actually tell me that when they've come to work for me or intern with me for a summer or even are just in my employ, they say, wow, I've learned a lot of theory in school, which is amazing. But then you actually learn the hands on stuff at a job. And I've never seen anywhere say you have to have a master's degree to, to work there.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. The one thing that a master's degree will do for you is it'll give you a leg up when people are looking at your resume. So if you're competing for a job where there's 10 people and two people have master's degrees, as the employer, you're going to look at that, look at them first. So it does help with the resume. But as far as helping to do the job better, you know, the hands on stuff, as Valerie was saying, is generally more important than a lot of the theoretical stuff that you'll learn in a master's degree program. Having said that, a master's degree program is great to do.

[Valerie George]

It is. But it's also very expensive. And I think if you look at what it gives you financially, career wise, and this is probably a different episode tangent we're going into, you know, if an online master's degree program or even an in person master's degree program costs you $60,000. I don't. I think it will take you many years to earn that difference back as a cosmetic chemist, you're not going to make, you know, tens of thousands of more dollars just because you have a master's degree.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

You show up to a job not knowing the same amount as a person who didn't go to master's school. Right. When it comes to hands on stuff. So that's just my opinion, you know, it will take you several years to recoup that cost.

[Perry Romanowski]

So anyway, and a lot of times get the job first and then your company will pay for you to get a master's degree. So that's another thing to consider.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. That's. And they're online now. You could even do these certificate programs. I teach one at ucr. So it's, you know, there's a lot of options for continued education. But what about. Where do you have to live, Perry? Where. What. What would be your advice? I have a piece of advice I give college students when I do a talk about this.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, in the United States, there are cosmetic and manufacturing companies all over the country, really all over the world. Such. But the reality is, in the United States, there are three main spots where you're gonna find jobs. Out in the New York, New Jersey area, there's lots of chemical companies out there. Then in California, there's a ton of contract manufacturers and brand out there. And then in the new sort of growing area is in Texas, where.

[Valerie George]

That's why we moved here. Yep.

[Perry Romanowski]

Moving down those. Yeah. So those are the three main areas. Used to be here in Chicago, we had a pretty vibrant cosmetic industry, but the big companies kind of moved away. And so there are some big chemical companies still here. So there's still jobs for cosmetic chemists. But I would say the three areas I mentioned first are probably the main ones in the United States, where you could find stuff. But honestly, Florida, there's a lot of stuff going on there. Carolina, there's. There's. You could find jobs all over the country.

[Valerie George]

I always say, go to the Society of cosmetic chemists website, scconline.org and look at the list of chapters that they have, because if there is, and this is really no matter what career you're going into, every industry has an industry organization. And so our organization is the Society of Cosmetic Chemists, and they have chapters in the United States and Canada. And where there's a chapter, there's probably a large opportunity for employment. So there's currently 19 chapters as of today in the United States and Canada. And you can go and look at the list and see, oh, wow, Ontario, there's some jobs there. Oh, wow. Intermountain west, which is Idaho, Utah, there's a bunch of jobs there. So that should help you out.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right. I think that pretty much covers it up. Good luck. And, Bree, if you make it in the industry, be sure to say hello to Valerie and I at one of the various SCC meetings that you might stumble into.

[Valerie George]

We hope to see you there.

[Perry Romanowski]

Look at that. Valerie, we have an audio question.

[Valerie George]

I love it.

[Perry Romanowski]

This comes from John.

[John]

Hi, Beanie Brains. My name is John and I love the show. Quick question. Is it important for products like shampoos, conditioners, lotions, body washes to have a safety seal on them when you buy them at the store? I notice a lot of products do not have any kind of safety seal. Is there any concern with that? Is there a purpose for the safety seal? If the majority of these major companies are not using them, are they really necessary? And why would you have a number of products under, let's say Procter and Gamble have a safety seal while other products under Procter and Gamble do not? Just curious to what your thoughts are on this. Thanks.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, John, thanks so much for that question. It sounded like John was in the car there. I tried to clean up the audio, but we appreciate the audio question.

[Valerie George]

I like his multitasking.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, this is an interesting question. Safety seals. Now when we talk about safety seals, we're not talking about little blubbery animals that live in the water, right?

[Valerie George]

Oh my gosh, I knew you would take that there, you know. No, we're talking about a product that hasn't open. I'm ignoring that joke. I'm talking about a product that has a little glued on or stuck on seal that you have to.

[Perry Romanowski]

Haven't done a show.

[Valerie George]

I know, I know, but that was, that was really bad. I'm talking about those annoying seals when you get in the shower and you're excited to use a brand new shampoo and you go to squeeze it out and you're like ugh, it won't come out. And then you have to try to rip this seal seal off with really wet hands after removing the cap.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wet hands. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so that's one reason you don't find them more because it annoys consumers. Some people who, some companies who have those on there and consumer will buy that and then when they try to use the product, they get annoyed and then don't purchase. That's one reason why people wouldn't purchase a product because it annoys them. So that's generally why, that's what's at least one reason why that you don't find them ubiquitous through all of cosmetics. They just, they annoy consumers. So that's number one. But let's. So those safety seals are meant to protect consumers from anyone tampering with the products. Do you remember when all of this tamper proof stuff came about and why at least that was right?

[Valerie George]

Is it a Tylenol killing?

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. No, back in the. I think it was in the 1980s somebody. And, and this is like around the area of Chicago here, somebody went around to drugstores or grocery stores where they sell like aspirin and Tylenol. Tylenol is, I guess it's a set of Metafins or. Or is it ibuprofen? I don't know. It's one of those. Anyway, somebody went around to Tylenols and they put cyanide in the Tylenol containers. They would just open it up, put some poison in there and close it up. That was before they had any safety seals or anything on there. And I think about eight people died and they never did catch the person who did it. But it was huge news. And so what? That prompted the, at least the drug industry to pretty much put tamper proof containers or safety seals on anything that was being sold over the counter. They already had tamper proof stuff so kids couldn't open containers. But this was a safety seal to tell has anyone opened this before? And so the idea is if someone's cracked the seal, then you shouldn't buy that and that's dangerous. So that's why it started at least with drugs. Now you don't have it with beauty products as much.

[Valerie George]

No, you don't. And this is because beauty products are not ingested. And so people aren't going to go in and pour something in the shampoo. Hopefully not that's going to do anything for you. And there's no legal requirement to have this safety seal because it's just, I guess, not an issue. The safety seal that you do see on cosmetic products is probably added because the product is sensitive to air and they don't want the product to evaporate. So for example, a styling gel that comes in a jar, the water evaporates from a styling gel in a jar very quickly. So the seal on it is actually called an induction seal. And this prevents the product from losing water while it's being stored on a shelf. Also, you'll find seals because online retailers require the seals for shipping. They require the product to be sealed in some way, not for safety, but actually so it doesn't leak all over the entire box in shipping. And so you'll see that some cosmetic producers add a seal for that effect. But, um, and then I would say probably some makeup is sealed so that people don't at a store take it, oh, let me try it and then put it back. And so it's probably like a deterrent for people prematurely opening and using products. But I don't think you have that risk with a product like a shampoo. A conditioner, maybe a lotion, you know, maybe not. Usually lotions are in pumps, and so you can tell if the pump's been activated. You wouldn't buy that one, but it's just not. It's not really a thing yet. Again, it's annoying, too. If there's a pump on a product, you actually can't seal it because there's a dip tube that goes into the. The opening of the bottle, and you can't put a seal on that unless you shrink wrap the entire thing. So it's a little complicated on what can get a seal and what can't. But in personal care, meaning, you know, maybe non cosmetic products, it's usually not on there unless it's a shipping requirement or the product needs to be protected during storage.

[Perry Romanowski]

I have seen it on oral products like toothpastes specifically, or mouth could be ingested. Yeah, yeah. So any product that might be ingested, there's more concern about it. But for something like a shampoo or conditioner, you know, skin lotions, those things, they're just not as dangerous. So I think the inconvenience of the seal and actually the cost of adding.

[Valerie George]

That seal, which is not inexpensive.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. And it's not going to outweigh any kind of the benefits that it might be protecting consumers on. So that is the reason why we don't see more safety seals on cosmetic products. If there was a rash of people killing people with cosmetics, then I think the industry might switch over like that. But we haven't had that, fortunately.

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh. We shouldn't have said anything.

[Perry Romanowski]

We should not. I might cut that from the show. All right, we got a question from Becky. Becky says hi. Valerie and Perry don't make up sponges. You know, the ones shaped like an egg. Just soak up your expensive foundation makeup. Isn't a synthetic makeup brush better at applying foundation without the waste? Also, in case you answered my previous question below, how did I find the. How do I find the episode? Thanks, Becky. Okay, Becky, so let me answer that last question first. If we answer a question for yours on the show, sometimes I'll send you an email that says, hey, we answered on this show. But I don't always do that.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's a lot to remember. And I don't remember Becky's last question. Sorry, Becky.

[Perry Romanowski]

I don't either. So just keep listening. That's how you find out. I think in the future, maybe we'll get an intern who will be able to send emails to people that we answered questions for. But at the moment there's no easy way.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay. How about these sponges?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I'm a little familiar with them. Really. Makeup sponges have been around a long time. They were always the secret of makeup artists in Hollywood, where they would take the spirit sponge and put foundation on it and then, you know, stamp it on your face. But beauty blender is really the original commercially successful changing the way in which consumers apply makeup. You know, I don't think a lot of people would buy these bags stuffed with sponges.

[Perry Romanowski]

A beauty blender is that also doubles as a drink mixer.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my goodness. Oh, yeah. Eat the sponge, Perry. Eat the sponge. That'll clean you right out. Well, the beauty blender was really the first egg shaped, you know, technique driven makeup sponge applicator that had the commercial success.

[Perry Romanowski]

It did.

[Valerie George]

I'm sure someone will say, actually there was this one thing out there, but really, I think beauty blender changed the shelves at checkout at Sephora with people saying, hey, let me go back to using these sponges. The beauty blender directions actually specifically state to print pre wet the sponge before you apply your foundation to it. Yeah, at least they used to say that. And the reason is a wet sponge is less likely to soak up silicone or oil based foundation. And so you're not getting as much product sucking up into it as you think. And it's not like you're wasting half the bottle. I mean, we're talking about a very tiny amount of product going into the sponge. So I personally don't think it's wasteful. Of course, you can get a synthetic makeup brush. I don't think they're as good as applying foundation, because when you brush makeup onto your skin like a liquid foundation, and I'm not a makeup artist and I don't wear a lot of makeup, but this is just my experience. And why I don't use brushes necessarily for liquid makeup is the product is sitting on the outside of the brush and it's essentially smeared on your skin. And then you have to go back in and do a really good job of distributing it evenly across your skin. With a makeup sponge, it's kind of like sponge painting a wall. You can fill in all these nooks and crannies and stamp it exactly where you need to in order to have the foundation distributed. And so in my opinion, it's a different type of application. It's probably a bit lighter of coverage. You could they call it buildable coverage. Whereas with a foundation brush or synthetic makeup brush, I think you actually just have to be better at applying makeup. And for me, that's a bit harder. So it's probably a lot due to preference, but I personally just don't think a beauty blender makeup sponge is super duper wasteful. If you pre wet it, it's not going to absorb so much.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well. And I think about how much is left in the bottle. There's a lot more that's you're left in the bottle that you just can't get out then is going to be left as a residual amount on that sponge. So I. I don't think it's a significant amount that you're wasting.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. And again, it's a total preference thing. And if I were to do it, I prefer the sponge. And notice I had to think about that because I don't. Again, I don't wear makeup at all. Sometimes I wear mascara and blush. I'm really heavy on the blush, which I like. You know, like the little Golden Girls effect.

[Perry Romanowski]

But wait, Golden Girls? Was that the TV show from.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, you know, and they just like old ladies. I mean, they weren't really that old. I think they were like in their 60s or whatever, which is like crazy. But yeah, they wore a lot of blush.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, you know, the Golden Girls were the same age as the new launch of the Sex and the City Women.

[Valerie George]

Wow. There was no Sex in the City on the Golden Girls.

[Perry Romanowski]

So if you. But if you look at the Golden Girls, like just compare the TV shows, I mean, they're so radically different. Our view of what an old person looks like has certainly been adjusted by a decade or so, hasn't it?

[Valerie George]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. 80s TV is very different from 2020s TV, that's for sure.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, Yeah. A very special episode. They don't do the special episodes anymore, do they?

[Valerie George]

No. Well, let's go to our next question from Shelley.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hi again, Valerie and Perry. After you kindly answered my hair product question on a prior podcast, I decided to become a patron member. Well, thank you for that. I hope you guys can keep the podcast going for years to come. My question today is about hair bond repair. I have purchased numerous bond repair products over the years to battle color and heat damage to my hair. I was very surprised at the ingredient list on my most recent purchase. There are only four ingredients. Diethylhexyl malate, oleal alcohol, alcohol, denatured, and steramidopropyl dimethylamine. I'm very curious as to how a product with only four ingredients can compare in performance to others on the market, which, if Any of these ingredients actually repairs the hair. Again, thanks for educating and entertaining us all, Shelly. Bond building.

[Valerie George]

Valerie, you know, this is such a tough area for me because I just, you know, they never really. Some bond building companies actually do say they rebuild disulfide bonds, but if you look at the big ones, they don't say that or don't say that anymore because they know it's not true. There are a lot of other bonds in the hair you can rebuild. I just don't think disulfide bonds are one of them. Unless you're doing a perm and then you're truly not rebuilding the disulfide bond the way it was.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. And because you're essentially what you're doing is you're setting up the chemical conditions of the hair and what it's exposed to and you are forcing a reforming of the sulfur sulfur bonds. If you don't have those chemical conditions, what's going to happen is the free sulfur is going to immediately pick up a hydrogen and there's just no time for your little chemical to come in and get in between that. It's just, there's.

[Valerie George]

That's just not happening and it's irreversible. You can't. Without significant chemical modifications that aren't possible on a human head of hair, you can't kick those hydrogens off and replace them and rebridge two sulfur bonds. No, you can't. Yeah, you cannot. But there are millions of other bonds in the hair called electrostatic bonds, salt bridges.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure. Hydrogen bonding, Van der Waals forces.

[Valerie George]

If you're a chemistry major, you know about these. And there's millions of them in the hair. And so it's possible to strengthen hair through those bonds. So with this bond builder, the diethylhexyl malleate is actually the bond building active. I believe this was also invented by the Olaplex founder who when he departed the company said, actually I have a better molecule and I'm going to invent this better molecule. Olaplex is so 10 years ago, and this is a much better bond building molecule. So it's diethylhexyl malate. It's a derivative of maleic acid, which these acids are very good for, giving the perception of strength in the hair. And oleal alcohol, which is also really great for hair, an old timey ingredient. And then of course we have a little conditioning agent.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And one of our favorites, steramidylpropyl dimethylamine. Sadma.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I love that one.

[Perry Romanowski]

And I was interested in this because there's no preservative, but with alcohol denatured as the solvent, essentially, that's pretty much your preservative.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, yeah. Now, how does it compare to other bond builders on the market? I don't know because I've personally never used it, you know, with the other bond builders on the market. You may notice, like, oh, hair feels really good. It's probably not from the bond builder. It's probably from the conditioning step afterwards. And I say probably, but I've looked at all of them and you know, the ones that's just a liquid you add into your hair color, you don't get a change in feel on the hair from that. You really get the change and feel from the. The second step. This product actually is a conditioner because it has that stir metopropyl dimethylamine in it and oleal alcohol, which changes the feel on hair. So in some effect, that is the conditioning agent. But this sterametyl propyl dimethylamine is not the bond building agent.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. So it'll make your hair feel good. Now, whether that has long term improvement on your hair and it's making bonds. Yeah, I don't know. I'd be a little skeptical of that. But, you know, I. You have to kind of test this and see how it impacts your hair. But the immediate impacts that you're going to notice are the steramidylpropyl dimethylamine, which you can find in, I don't know, Pantene Tresemme. Just. I'll. Pretty much all the nicer conditioners are going to use that ingredient.

[Valerie George]

Such a great ingredient. Well, Shelley, I hope that answers your question. I mean. Yeah, enjoy it. I'm sure your hair is going to feel great. You know, if it's really rebuilding bonds, we don't know.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, Valerie, you know what? I'm hearing the music. And speaking of bonds, I'm actually doing a talk in Thailand where I'm going to talk about hair technology and those buns. But I've got to pack up and head to the airport again. So I'm off again.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh. And I'm headed to Chicago for a packaging show, so I'm gonna miss you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope you have a good time in Thailand. I'm gonna miss you again. But when you come back, we'll get some episodes up and we'll finish the year strong. Can you believe it's almost December?

[Perry Romanowski]

I cannot believe it is almost December.

[Valerie George]

That's so crazy.

[Perry Romanowski]

The holidays are with us.

[Valerie George]

I know we're in that pumpkin spice peppermint mocha time of the year where it's like, which one?

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Oh, that is a good one. All right, well, thanks so much for listening, everyone.

[Valerie George]

If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us review that's going to help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of questions, if you have a question, we always like the audio questions, so you can just record it on your smartphone and even while you're in the car and then email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com and we'll get you on the show. Also, the Beauty Brains are on Patreon. As you notice, we've answered a few patron questions today and we prioritize patron questions. So if you want to help support the show and keep us ad free, go over to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. We also have a transcript there and we prioritize your questions. So some some great stuff over there when we thank all of our patrons for keeping us going.

[Valerie George]

Also, please don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts. On Instagram, we're at the BeautyBrains 2018 and I have a New Year's resolution to do a really great posting schedule. Notice I'm not doing it now. That's fine. On X we're at the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page and a TikTok.

[Perry Romanowski]

I can finally get back on X now that the election is over. My God, that was terrible.

[Valerie George]

I know. You just kind of have to stay off the interwebs for that. All right, well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks, everyone. Kittens.

[Shelley]

Branches where the morning birds play Setting her sights on the fluttering array with the twitch of her tail she's on her way Climbing the tree where the jeffers away puffers underneath to watch from below as she leaps and bounds Putting on a show Higher she climbs the birds just in reach Mood nor daring she's ready to preach but as she pounces with all her might they flutter to rooftops out of sight Benito shakes his head amused at the sight While Puffer screams at her fearless flight A little blue walk you go chasing dreams where the wild birds crow up in the branches you nearly touch the sky but those clever birds always know just when to fly under church she plans her next bold move for each fail attendant she's got more to prove the sun dips low the day nears a 10 yet lil blue spirit refuses to bend A friend still watching with a chuckle and a cheer from the spirit and antics they hold dear. Oh Lil Blue up you go chasing dreams where the wild birds crow up in the branches and nearly touch the sky but those clever birds always know just when to climb chunks she flies with a twirl in the crest and moss mossy aerial swallow if you ever wonder find your rustle up high we took the final good Reaching for the sky with a powerful light and a hopeful G. She'll continue chasing her backyard maze so if you ever wonder if I and her I live love Reaching for the sky with a pur of delight and a hopeful gaze she'll continue her cheek chase through the at your name down blue off you go chasing dreams where the wild birds crawl up in the branches and nearly touch the sky but those clever birds always know just when to climb.