Episode 386 - Seals of approval, Brooke Shields and more

Summary

Title: The Beauty Brains
Episode: 386 - Seals of Approval, Brooke Shields and More
Release Date: January 22, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 386 of The Beauty Brains, hosts Perry Romanowski and Valerie George explore a variety of topics central to the beauty and cosmetic industries. From evaluating the trustworthiness of product approval seals to dissecting Brooke Shields’ latest foray into hair care, the episode provides listeners with expert insights and thoughtful discussions.

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Personal Stories: Behind the Scenes

Valerie's Ouch Moment
The episode kicks off with Valerie sharing a lighthearted yet painful incident where she ends up with a significant bruise under her eye.

• Valerie George [01:11]: “I have a huge black eye.”
• Perry Romanowski [02:33]: “That poor guy. But poor Valerie, really?”

Perry’s Feline Fiasco
Perry recounts his ordeal with a feral cat named Bonitu that became trapped in his home's walls, highlighting the unexpected challenges of pet management.

• Perry Romanowski [05:06]: “He was there, but he wouldn't move.”
• Valerie George [07:05]: “He's stuck in the wall feeling safe, feeling small.”

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Beauty News: Industry Updates

TikTok’s Impending Ban in the U.S.
The hosts discuss the looming ban of TikTok in the United States and its ramifications for beauty influencers and brands reliant on the platform.

• Valerie George [10:00]: “I feel bad. But it's also an important business lesson to diversify.”
• Perry Romanowski [11:11]: “TikTok is probably bad for society... misinformation is so easily spread.”

FDA Bans Red Dye No. 3 in Food
The FDA's recent decision to prohibit Red Dye No. 3 in food and ingested drugs is analyzed, with discussions on its implications for cosmetics and the broader precautionary principles in place.

• Valerie George [13:29]: “I think it's okay to remove it. That's the approach the EU takes.”
• Perry Romanowski [14:35]: “We got plenty of other things that we could use.”

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Questions & Answers: Listener Concerns Addressed

1. Amanda’s Sensitive Skin Care Dilemma
Amanda inquires about the reliability of the National Eczema Association's acceptance seal after discovering an allergen in a recommended product.

• Valerie George [16:51]: “These seals are revenue generating programs.”
• Perry Romanowski [20:41]: “If you make the standards too strict, you limit your customer base.”

2. Brooke Shields’ New Hair Care Line
An audio question from Aliyah seeks the hosts' opinions on Brooke Shields’ latest hair care products designed for aging hair.

• Valerie George [22:27]: “Conditioner is for your hair, it's not for your scalp.”
• Perry Romanowski [25:26]: “They have listed IUPAC names for their preservative system, which is confusing.”

3. Geek and Gorgeous Brand Evaluation
Sevda asks for insights into the Hungarian brand Geek and Gorgeous, particularly their Vitamin C serum compared to premium brands like Skinceuticals.

• Valerie George [35:19]: “They look perfectly fine. I'm not really sold on peptides being great.”
• Perry Romanowski [37:01]: “Peptides, they're using Matrixyl 3000 and Synthé 6.”

4. Amy’s Hydroquinone Product Confusion
Amy questions why Z Skin Health offers two hydroquinone-based creams with the same concentration, seeking clarity on their combined use.

• Valerie George [43:23]: “If Z Skin Health gets in trouble, it wasn't us.”
• Perry Romanowski [46:36]: “Does 4% work better than 2%? Probably gives quicker results but worse side effects.”

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In-Depth Analysis: Seals of Approval

Valerie and Perry delve deeper into the credibility of various product seals, discussing how many are revenue-driven and may lack stringent scientific backing. They emphasize the importance of understanding the underlying criteria and transparency of such seals to make informed beauty decisions.

• Valerie George [17:01]: “You never really know what information groups have to give the seals that are awarded.”
• Perry Romanowski [18:12]: “...products have sub preservatives with, for example, glyoxyl which is a formaldehyde donor.”

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Conclusion: Be Brainy About Your Beauty

Wrapping up, Perry and Valerie reiterate the importance of skepticism and informed decision-making in the beauty industry. They encourage listeners to critically evaluate product claims, ingredient lists, and the validity of approval seals to ensure they make choices that best suit their individual needs.

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Notable Quotes

• Valerie George [16:51]: “These seals are revenue generating programs.”
• Perry Romanowski [10:04]: “TikTok's being banned is also an important business lesson to diversify.”
• Valerie George [13:29]: “I think it's okay to remove it [Red Dye No. 3].”
• Valerie George [21:26]: “These seals are revenue generating programs. I mean, to me, at the end of the day, that's what they are…”

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Final Thoughts

Episode 386 of The Beauty Brains offers a blend of personal anecdotes, critical industry news, and thoughtful listener Q&A, all underscored by the hosts' expertise in cosmetic chemistry. Whether you're navigating sensitive skin care or curious about the latest beauty trends, this episode equips you with the knowledge to make informed beauty choices.

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Be sure to follow The Beauty Brains on social media and subscribe to their Patreon for exclusive content and early access to future episodes.

Transcript

[Perry Romanowski]

Hi, I'm Perry, and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 386. I'm your host, Perry Romanowski, and with me today is Valerie George. Hello, Valerie.

[Valerie George]

Hi, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Valerie, I love what you're doing with your makeup right now. Whoa. Well, you know, on today's show, we are going to cover lots of questions, including how much should you trust the seals of approvals on product labels. What do we think of Brooke Shields new hair care line? What makes a good lip mask and day cream? What are our thoughts on the Geek and Gorgeous brand? And finally, why would a brand include two hydroquinone based lightening creams with the same active level and concentration in their line? But first, little chit chat. Valerie, I mentioned about the makeup. It's because you have this little dark mark under your right eye.

[Valerie George]

Well, I wouldn't call it a little dark mark. I have a huge black eye. And what you're seeing actually looks way better than what it looked like several days ago.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, Valerie, that's amazing. So. So what happened?

[Valerie George]

Geez, that's first rule of Fight Club, Perry. You don't talk about Fight Club.

[Perry Romanowski]

Of course. That's right. Wow.

[Valerie George]

Well, actually, here's what happened. So I just kind of put, you know, on Instagram, I made a little post like, oh, you know, guess who socked themselves in the eye? This, you know, this gal. And, you know, people were asking what happened? Making jokes, and one person wrote, let me guess, you picked up something that either was stuck or was lighter than you thought it was, and it came and hit you in the face really hard. And I was like, how did he know that's what happened?

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow.

[Valerie George]

So, yeah, so basically what happened is I went to grab something. I was on a work trip and I went to grab something at the hotel and it was stuck and also much lighter than I thought it was. So I picked it up with a lot of gusto and the corner came and hit me right under the eye and I had a huge lump and I tried to get the lump down, and now it's just a big old ugly bruise. And people think Mr. Cosmetic Chemist beat me up, especially because he has a cut on his knuckle.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh my. That poor guy. But poor Valerie, really?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, you know, the actual hitting hurt, but the bruise hurts worse.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, really? Wow.

[Valerie George]

Yes. I would rather be hit again than have the bruise.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I wonder how Long those bruises last. It's probably a week or so.

[Valerie George]

Well, we're gonna find out. I think it's more than a week.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, that's in a spot that doesn't really drain. It doesn't have a lot of blood flow there. Right. Isn't that why people. People get like the dark circles under their eyes mostly? Cause the blood doesn't flow as much there.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. And I can't really rub it. Cause it hurts so bad and it's very puffy and tender, so. Well, we'll find out next week when we meet. You'll see how much it's gone away.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes. Well, I hope that you are feeling better there.

[Valerie George]

Rough Monday, that's for sure.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I had a rough Wednesday. You wanna know what happened?

[Valerie George]

Yeah. What happened?

[Perry Romanowski]

It's really cold here in Chicago. And you know how I feed the porch kitties every morning I swing open my door and you know, and they run in a little extra quick the other day because it's really cold. And there's two puffers and the heat miser, they come in, no problem. And Lil Blue, she runs in too. But there's a cat, Bonitu, who he kind of wants to come in. You know, he always looking in, but you open the door and then he kind of scurries away. He's very skittish.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

But on this day it was so cold. It was like, you know, 5 degrees Fahrenheit for you people overseas. But so it's cold. And he actually walked into the room and he started walking towards the basement and. Or towards inside, more of the basement. And so I just shut the door to the outside and he freaked out. And he didn't know what's going, so he ran and he hid behind my furnace. And he's got in there, such a small space, like I couldn't reach it. Like he was just there and he would not budge. He would not come out for anything. He was just so scared. I felt terrible. I thought he was like stuck there. But no, he wasn't. He was. He was there, but he wouldn't move. And he stayed there all day. And I didn't know how to get the cat out. Like, he wouldn't leave, he just stayed there. So I got the advice that you should just leave him, leave him be, and he'll just come out when he comes out. And so did you get this advice.

[Valerie George]

From Reddit or TikTok?

[Perry Romanowski]

I got it from Reddit, actually. There is a Reddit subreddit called Feral Cats and they gave it there, which was very helpful. So. So I. Overnight, he hadn't come out at night. I probably kept checking too often. I go out there, like, once an hour, and he would just not move. And so overnight he came out. And I only know that because I went down the next morning and he was gone. Unfortunately, I couldn't find him anywhere.

[Valerie George]

Oh, no.

[Perry Romanowski]

Like, he's in my house, but I have no idea where he is.

[Valerie George]

Wow.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. So for the next two days, I am looking for this cat, like, under everything, but there just happens to be two places in my house. I have this sink in my laundry room. I have a sink that has a hole where my cat has sometimes gone in the hole so he can go between the walls, and so I really should patch that up.

[Valerie George]

Is that where the cat went?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, there's that, and then there's another vent in the front of my house in the basement where I had some water work done. And I take the vent off so the pipes don't freeze. So he's either in the. He's either in one of those walls. And so I thought he was in the big wall where he could go up and then sort of get under my floor on my second floor. So for a day, I didn't see this cat at all. And I'm just worried he's, like, go of starve and just die in my.

[Valerie George]

And that wouldn't smell good.

[Perry Romanowski]

And I'm leaving on a trip for, like, two weeks, so. So last night, I put a camera out and I saw him come out of the wall.

[Valerie George]

And where is he now?

[Perry Romanowski]

He's in the front wall.

[Valerie George]

So he went back into the wall?

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah. He loves the wall. It's like his hiding place now.

[Valerie George]

So what are you gonna do?

[Perry Romanowski]

I have two options. I'm gonna either cut open my wall and get him out and put him outside, or I'm just gonna let him stay in my house for two weeks, and I'm just gonna put out a whole bunch of food and a litter box because, honestly, he's probably safer inside my house because Chicago's supposed to get really, really cold the next few days.

[Valerie George]

Well, I have a question. Do feral cats know how to use a litter box?

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah, they do. It's very surprising. I don't know. It's just kind of built in. Honestly, when I took in, like, the kittens and stuff, you just put a litter box there, and boom, they're just using it. Wow.

[Valerie George]

I thought you had to, like, train them, you know, like, they need a mom cat to show Them how to lead by example.

[Perry Romanowski]

Nope, nope. They just kind of. They know. I think it's like anything that's sort of like dirt they'll use.

[Valerie George]

So maybe it has a scent in it to kind of attract them and say, pee here.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I don't know. So I'm not really worried about that. Cats are really good. I mean, that's. There are some things that make cats. Dogs better than cats as pets, but there are some things that make cats better pets than dogs, and that whole going to the bathroom thing is one of them.

[Valerie George]

Now, can you use a catch and release cage to catch him in the basement?

[Perry Romanowski]

I have one, and yes, I could do that, but unfortunately it's not working quite right and I don't really have a lot of time. I'm leaving tomorrow on my trip.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, you might just have to support him while you're gone. Oh, man. He's lucky and unlucky at the same time.

[Perry Romanowski]

I know. I will post a video of him coming out of the wall or going into the wall. It's so funny. I can't believe he fits in there, quite frankly. But these cats are crazy.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my goodness.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of crazy, are we ready for some beauty news? All right, we got one. We got a couple stories today, but let's talk about TikTok now. TikTok is in the United States. It's supposed to get banned tomorrow. We're recording this on Saturday, so Sunday.

[Valerie George]

Yes, it is. Yeah. And for me, I'm relieved because, you know, we've been squatting on a TikTok for some time. We literally never did anything on the app. We always pledged we would, and now we didn't have to waste our time. So I'm feeling pretty lucky. But it is going to be disastrous for a lot of people because they make a living on TikTok or they have TikTok shop and it's a really important avenue for their sales. So for those reasons, I feel bad. But it's also an important business lesson to diversify. It's not new. It didn't come up overnight. It's been talked about for years that this could happen because the U.S. government.

[Perry Romanowski]

They passed a law in April about it, so.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

And do so.

[Valerie George]

No surprise. But also, I just. I don't know, I just think, like, there's a lot of other social media apps and people will get along just fine. And, you know, TikTok has caused a lot of, you know, confusion amongst consumers, at least in the beauty space, especially. So I'm not sad.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I Would say in the whole, TikTok is probably bad for society, although it takes up a lot of people's attention. And a lot of misinformation is so easily spread there because, you know, the misinformation is just more compelling to people than what's true, unfortunately. That's just how things are. And that's the stuff that gets attention.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. So we'll see if it holds. I don't know if the band will hold, but an overwhelming majority, bipartisan, which means all parties said, hey, no bueno. It's gotta go.

[Perry Romanowski]

I heard an interview with somebody on TikTok who started a skincare line just on TikTok, and that was responsible for 70% of their sales. And so they were really bemoaning the idea that it's gonna be banned. But like you said, you gotta diversify.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

This is Perry breaking in, and in fact, it didn't hold. They went down on Saturday, and then we're back up on Sunday. But the law is still on the books, so we'll see where this TikTok ban goes. Okay, back to the beach.

[Valerie George]

In other news, the FDA also did a ban. It said red number three can no longer be allowed in food.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right. I saw this. And that was in January 15th. The FDA announced the ban on red dead dye number three in foods and ingested drugs. And this is because there have been studies where high doses have caused cancer in male rats. And there's also never been any evidence of the dye causing cancer in humans. It's been in on the market probably since the 1950s. But there's a thing in the United States called the delaney clause that says any additive that has been shown to cause cancer in animals or humans must be banned from food by the fda. And so they finally decided to act on it because, you know, this ingredient has been banned from cosmetics for many years. Yeah. Since the 1990 actual. Which seems strange to me. It's like topical. It's. It's banned, but you can still eat it. It just seems so much worse that you can eat stuff than to put it on your skin.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. I know a lot of influencers in the, you know, science communication space on the Internet are going through some of the studies that have shown this ingredient is known to cause cancer in rats. And it doesn't correlate well with how the dye is used in foodstuffs humans ingest. But at the end of the day, to me, it kind of doesn't matter because I don't think red dye number three is necessary to continue living in this earth. And if there's any doubt, you know, I think it's okay to remove it. That's the approach the EU takes. And people praise the EU constantly for how safe they are with their precautionary approach, which, you know, we won't go into here. There's a lot of pros and cons to using this precautionary principle, but I don't think it's a big deal to take it out.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. They. This isn't like, I would complain more about things like preservatives and things that haven't been shown to be problematic because there's really no good replacement. But there are plenty of red dyes already.

[Valerie George]

Plenty of red dyes already.

[Perry Romanowski]

Replacement.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

That they get rid of one that's a little questionable. I mean, that seems like a reasonable move here. I just think it's very strange that it was banned from cosmetics, like, 35 years ago and it took this long. Like.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Who knows what happened?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, yeah, I mean, the food lobbyists. But it's probably in some candy and, like, there's no easy way to get it.

[Valerie George]

Probably in Skittles or something.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And there's no easy way to get rid of it. And I could totally see how. How it happened, but, you know, because the. The PCPC or the CTPA at the time probably didn't make a fuss about it. And so the FDA's like, all right, we'll ban it in here, and the food people made a fuss about it, so they don't ban it there. Honestly, whether it's in your products or out of your products will make exactly zero difference for your health, I believe, since.

[Valerie George]

Correct.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, we've had, like, 40 years of it in there. We would see, like, a rise in cancers or something like that, and there just isn't a rise in that. So it probably doesn't do anything. But I'm with you. You know, we got plenty of other things that we could use.

[Valerie George]

Not necessary to have a pleasant life.

[Perry Romanowski]

Exactly. Speaking of pleasant lives, let's do some questions and answers, huh?

[Valerie George]

Last week we had zero questions from patrons, and this week, it's almost all questions from patrons. What a change.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right. Nice. And we even have an audio question.

[Valerie George]

Coming up, just like I asked for.

[Perry Romanowski]

Exactly. But the first question comes to us from our patron, Amanda. She says, hi, I am a longtime supporter and just remade my patron account with a new email. I'm looking for advice about sensitive skin care. Shopping. I'm forever plagued With a rotation of angular cheilitis, lip eczema and perioral dermatitis. You know, that is my full name, Perioral.

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh.

[Perry Romanowski]

I've been trying to clear this up during the last three months by only using Petrolatum Cerave moisturizing cream and CeraVe AM SPF moisturizer. In addition to a lot of trial and error to find the non irritating toothpaste, I've been using the National Eczema's Association's acceptance seal to choose products. But they list Tower 28 Lip Softie as accepted. I happen to already own this and know that it triggers my eczema. It contains vanillin and the product criteria should mean no fragrance. Is vanillin not a fragrance. How did this product make it on the list? Now I have a healthy dose of skepticism. Are there other product labels that you take with a grain of salt? And that's from Amanda. Thank you for the question, Amanda. Yeah, you see a proliferation of these seals. And you know, there's the dwg, there's the cruelty free, there's the leaping bunny, there's, there's all these different seals. Apparently the Eczema association has a seal too. What's the deal with these seals, Valerie?

[Valerie George]

These seals are revenue generating programs. I mean, to me, at the end of the day, that's what they are because you can charge a brand $500 or $1,000 to apply for a seal.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And then you charge them to license the seal logo over the course of the lifetime of the product. And so it really generates a lot of money. If you have a lot of people interested in getting this seal, it helps if the seal is backed by a scientific organization with credentials. For example, I believe there's some dermatologists that are participating in the National Eczema Association's acceptance seal. But in the case of ewg, it's necessarily, not necessarily a team of doctors, but rather the EWG platform that's verifying everything. And I'm just a huge skeptic of seals because you never really know what information groups have to give the seals that are awarded. For example, who does the EWG have that's working in the industry to validate whether or not a product of the way it's formulated meets the criteria? Maybe they have a couple people, maybe they don't. But I know in the case of the National Eczema association, they actually explicitly ban formaldehyde and formaldehyde donors. Yet there are ingredients that have sub preservation with, for example, glyoxyl which is a formaldehyde donor.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And I once contacted them and said, hey, I've noticed all these companies that you have listed on your seal are using hydroxyethylcellulose, which most people are using a grade that has a glyoxyl shell on it. And so glyoxyl would be in the formula as an incidental and you wouldn't know it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. It wouldn't be listed on the ingredient list. Right.

[Valerie George]

But it's just a. They weren't understanding what I was saying. And I. I said in a way, like, you know, you guys don't really know what you're doing, because this is, to me, something you would know if you worked in the industry. Now, there are grades that are free of glyoxyl. I only formulate with those. But.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

Most people don't because it's more expensive to not use it. It's not cold process. All the reasons. But it just really. I mean, I'm not like triggered or anything, but when they said, hey, this product contains Vanillin, which is actually, I think, an allergen, or has some. Actually is One of the 81 EU allergens, I believe. So the fact that the lip balm has it in there is a big red flag. It's a fragrance and flavor ingredient, which is probably why it's in the lip balm. And so even though it's generally recognized as safe, it still shouldn't have gotten the seal, in my opinion. So I'm a skeptic.

[Perry Romanowski]

You're right to be skeptical. As far as this goes, whether Vanillin is, you know, triggers eczema or not. One of the challenges that a group like the eczema society has or eczema association has is that I don't think we know why every single person gets their eczema triggered. You know, it's a very individual thing, and they're trying to make rules that'll be applicable to a large society, a large segment of society, but they're going to miss people. So in this case, they might have to. Their testing criteria of what makes something bad for eczema. For most people, it may not be bad. So I'll defend them a little bit there. Now, let's talk about these seals, though. One of the problems is that the way these seals make money is they get make money if people use them and if people adhere to the seal standards. The problem with the standards is that if you make the standards too strict, that is going to limit the number of people who will qualify to use.

[Valerie George]

The seal, which means less money.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. You're limiting your customer base. And so one of the things that happens, and I've seen this happen in a lot of natural seals, is at first, they start out, they're very strict, and then they're not getting anybody. So then they start to loosen the rules, and they say, oh, you can't use sodium lauryl sulfate in your product. Oh, but if it's. Then a year later, they say, well, if it's plant derived, then you can use it. And so now you've loosened your standard a little bit. And over time, all of these associations, just because they want to have more and more customers that could use their seals, I think they loosen their standards. And it could be something like that going on here.

[Valerie George]

Well, I'm sorry that happened to you.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, that's bad. But at least you don't have a cat caught in your wall. Okay, our next question is an audio question.

[C]

Hi, beauty brains. My name is Aliyah. I'm calling from Denver. I am a patron, and I love your show. You did not mention Brooke Shields coming out with a hair care line, But I'm very curious about it. As someone who is going through hormonal changes and losing a bunch of ha. So I would love your thoughts on her three products which do not include shampoo and conditioner. It is a dry shampoo, a root serum, and a leave in conditioner. Curious as to your thoughts. Thank you very much. Bye.

[Perry Romanowski]

Did you know Brooke Shields had a line? Did we predict that or something?

[Valerie George]

How did we not predict that? Oh, my gosh.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow.

[Valerie George]

Well, I didn't know that. And in looking it up, it's a line called commencement. And after being in the limelight for many years, Brooke Shields knows what it's like to age in front of an audience, and she's not afraid to tell it like it is. And so she developed this hair care collection for aging hair, which I think is a really great category, because hair as you age doesn't get great in terms of texture. If people have gray hair, the gray can yellow. So I took a look at the.

[Perry Romanowski]

Lime, and there's a whole thinning thing, you know?

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

I mean, I used to have, like, a lot of hair. Now I have less. Like, where did it all go?

[Valerie George]

Do you want some of mine?

[Perry Romanowski]

No. I could just take some off my back, at least with my friends.

[Valerie George]

Oh, so gross. Okay, well, so there's a detoxifying shampoo. It's a clear shampoo, which looks great. A probiotic smoothing conditioner. I find this one to be confusing because conditioner is for your hair, it's not for your scalp. So I don't understand why you would need probiotics for your biologically dead hair shaft.

[Perry Romanowski]

I suppose though, they're making a, they're probably trying to angle like reduced dandruff by getting, you know, treating your scalp could be a dandruff play or something, I don't know.

[Valerie George]

Well, if that were a shampoo, I could see that. But conditioner is meant for your hair. It's not meant for, for the skin on the scalp. I know a lot of guys put it there, but I don't know many girls that condition their scalp.

[Perry Romanowski]

I could see it though, because a conditioner is like a cream and it seems like a lotion. Right. So I could see people putting it on their head all the way to the scalp, you know, even though they shouldn't.

[Valerie George]

But, but I think it's a bad claim because if you have these probiotic ingredients inside which are coming into contact with the scalp at a conditioner, you also have quats coming into contact with the scalp and that could adversely impact the microbiome on the scalp. So that's why you can't really have a lot of quats with skin contact in a conditioner. So I think they, you know, are doing a little disservice there. But going back.

[Perry Romanowski]

Miss. There's.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I think it's a miss or at least a misleading. They have a thickening root serum, a shine enhancing detangler, 2 in 1 instant dry shampoo, a 3 in 1 leave in formula. And you know, the formulas look all right. I personally am not impressed with any of the hair in the photos, you know, but I would try it.

[Perry Romanowski]

I was trying to look for the ingredient list here.

[Valerie George]

They're a little bit hard to find. You have to scroll past all of the really large photos. What's detailed detoxifying shampoo. And then you can go down to ingredients, scroll past more large photos.

[Perry Romanowski]

I got the three way day set.

[Valerie George]

Wash. Yeah, their ingredient list isn't correct because I think they meant to list C14 16 olefin sulfonate and they listed sulfonic acids and C14 16 alkane hydroxyl and C14 16 alkene and sodium salts.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh boy.

[Valerie George]

And they listed IUPAC names for their preservative system, which is methyl isothiazolinone and methylchloroisothiazolinone. They listed impurities that shouldn't be listed because they're not. It's Kind of hard to explain, but you wouldn't list those things.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right.

[Valerie George]

I should contact them and let them know.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, help them out. Yeah. There. Because, you know, it's not Brooke Shields. I'm sure she wasn't part of the listing of the ingredients. That gets kind of esoteric. But often a contract manufacturer might not have a regulatory person doing this stuff, and they might just rely on their suppliers or something. But, yeah, there are a few mistakes here.

[Valerie George]

The price point's not bad, though. I mean, you know, I think it's middle of the road. I actually was shocked going into, like, a Target or a Walmart and looking at the prices of shampoo and conditioner of, like, mass market brands. I'm like, this is $11 now, since inflation's not doing great, but this is for 8 ounces, $24, which I. I feel like is middle of the road.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's. That's middle of the road.

[Valerie George]

I mean, would I pay that much for a shampoo? Is C1416, olefin sulfonate and cocamitopropyl betaine? Probably not.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, probably not. But, you know, it seems like a fine enough product line. And, you know, if you want to try it out, try it out. Okay. Speaking of try it out, we've got a question from Zaina.

[Valerie George]

So I just listened to the episode that recommended the La Roche Posay Kikaplast lip balm, and I wanted to see how you would rate this brand and this lip balm and face cream below. I've been using Avant for years. I. I just fell in love with the feel of my skin, and I was hoping you could dive into the brand a bit for me and see what you think of the formulations and if you have used this. I'm talking about the Intense Kupuasu Replenishing and Nourishing two in one lip repair Mask and the Pro Intense Hyaluronic Acid Illuminating Day Cream. It just feels so nice. Thank you so much, Zaina.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right. A lip repair mask, like a lip mask?

[Valerie George]

Well, that's like a new term for really nourishing product you would put on the lips.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, it's. It's sort of like hair mask. There's skin masks now there's lip mask. I wonder if there's like, nail polish masks or something like that.

[Valerie George]

Maybe not yet.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's all the rage. Watch for it. And that should have been one of my predictions of 2025. Well, I'm looking at the. Let's talk about the lip repair mask. So what makes something a Good lip repair mask. You're going to have to have some sort of occlusive agents on your lips so it holds in the moisture better. And that's pretty much it. You want some aesthetic modifiers so it doesn't feel greasy. Because ultimately I think the best lip mask would just be petrolatum. But people don't necessarily like how greasy that feels or how it looks. And so you're going to have to adjust the formula there. They base their product on shea butter.

[Valerie George]

And beeswax and cocoa butter. Yeah. You know, Perry, you mentioned something interesting. You know, you think petrolatum is the greatest lip mask, but it's greasy. Lip balms really come down to preference. Like, to some people, petrolatum could be the best lip balm in the world. I'm actually using an Aquaphor lip ointment right now, and it's petrolatum based. It's pretty nice, but I don't like the greasiness. It. It kind of has a stay put. It iveness like a lip balm has to stay put. It can't migrate. And so my personal preference are actually waxy lip balms, like a Burt's Bees.

[Perry Romanowski]

Like this one here, very waxy.

[Valerie George]

And some people hate a waxy lip balm. So it really comes down to preference. So I'm. I bet I might like this one.

[Perry Romanowski]

Ah, yeah. And it's only £37.

[Valerie George]

That seems like a lot of money for shea butter beeswax. I could make it myself. I sell all these ingredients.

[Perry Romanowski]

On the other hand, like, how long does a lip balm last? For me, I still have a lip balm in my ski coat that I've had for 10 years, so.

[Valerie George]

Well, it depends. I think we don't really know how long they last. I'll tell you why, because most people lose them beforehand or they accidentally put them in the dryer and they mail everywhere. So I think it's hard to say, but, you know, I have a little. Remember when the Laneige sleeping mask came out, it was a little pink pot. Oh, you sure remember.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay, I vaguely do remember that. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Okay. So it was a little mask you would put on. The container was way too large and it lasted. Like, I put it on every single night. And like two years later, I still. Still had it because you barely needed any. And I. I didn't really. I think I like the smell and the initial feel. It actually made my dry lips worse. But I was committed to using it because of the price. So I think this would last a pretty Long time. I mean, 10 milliliters for lip is a lot.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. So you can see why they charge what they charge because as far as velocity of this product selling, it's not going to sell very frequently, I guess.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. So as far as it being good, you know, that's totally subjective. I see the waxes and the cocoa butter in there, and I personally think this is a lip balm I might enjoy. But if you prefer softer type products, it might not be for you.

[Perry Romanowski]

They have a. They've listed aroma, so I don't think aroma is a proper ingredient list. I think they meant fragrance, but they didn't want to put fragrance on there.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Because fragrance might be weird in a lip balm, but really it puts. Probably could be flavor. So with lip balms, when you're formulating with them, you want to make sure that you use. If you're trying to make it scented or flavored, you want to use items that are generally recognized as safe because you do a little tiny bit of consumption when you're eating it. So technically, it could be a fragrance that they've added. It could also be a flavor. And they probably didn't want to put either of those terms. Aroma sounds way better, but it's not compliant.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, exactly. So that's that one. Then there's another face mask, the Pro Intense Hyaluronic Acid Illuminating Day Cream.

[Valerie George]

This looks pretty good, but I see the price tag and I'm like, that's kind of expensive, so it better be really amazing.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I guess you'd have to try it. Like 67 bucks. You'd have to try it. But as far as the ingredients go, I don't see anything really particularly special here.

[Valerie George]

No, there's a nice emollients in it. There's unique texture modifiers. So sodium polyacrylate and potassium cetyl phosphate is a really beautiful emulsifier that creates nice melt, melty textures. But as far as, like, the wow factor goes, I don't know if there's anything that justifies, you know, you mentioned £67. That's the sale price.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's usually 97. So I'm sure it feels really nice. The most important thing is if you love it and your skin feels great, use it. But there's, you know, there's no magic ingredient that's in it. And they. It has great, great reviews. So that's also a good indication.

[Perry Romanowski]

Or they're really good at using. AI've gotten cynical in my younger, older years, I guess.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my Goodness. But yeah, the brand looks really great.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, that's, you know, try away. Okay, we got another patron question. This one comes to us from Svedva Sevda. Hello, Perry and Valerie. I just signed up to Patreon. I emailed before to ask question, but I wasn't in a position to subscribe. But I am now and we appreciate that.

[Valerie George]

Thank you.

[Perry Romanowski]

We do give patrons a higher priority in answering questions. Here's the question that she had. My question is about the range Geek and Gorgeous, which is a brand based in Hungary. I've used a few products and they are really nice to use. Some say the vitamin C is as good as skinceuticals, but that's just me Googling. I'm interested in your thoughts on the brand in general, but especially the C Glow, vitamin C, the A game, which is retinal, three different strengths, and the power peptide. Thanks for the podcast. And I loved the tube. The tube.

[Valerie George]

Do we have a tube?

[Perry Romanowski]

Maybe our upcoming YouTube.

[Valerie George]

Oh, yeah, that would be great.

[Perry Romanowski]

Warm regards, Sevda. Okay. I've not heard of this brand before, have you?

[Valerie George]

I have. I've actually used a couple of the products and I would say they're pretty nice. The branding is very nice. They have a lot of great content on the packaging and on their website. I think it's pretty good. I've not personally used the C Glow, which is their 15 vitamin C serum that people say is just as good as the skinceuticals, Vitamin C, CE ferulic, but I could say I'm sure it is just as good because if this product sold in the US they actually would be violating the patent that L'Oreal has for the product because they also use CE Ferulic and the concentrations most likely would be in the range that would violate the patent as well as the ph. But sure, you know, this is a bit of a smaller brand, so, you know, no wonder they're flying under the radar.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Valerie George]

Next year they won't have that problem because that patent goes away.

[Perry Romanowski]

I'm looking at the line they're going for sort of a medicinal kind of a packaging. You know, they have a syringes and a little brown bottle stopper. Yeah, very clean look.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, very. As Perry said, like a medical type look for it. And they have, you know, listed concentrations on most of the products. So half a percent beta glucan, 20% azelaic acid derivative serum, 10% niacinamide balm, which is actually what I've tried in the past. So yeah, I feel like they're going for like the ordinary with skin suitables. Like that's their inspiration.

[Perry Romanowski]

I would agree there. They tout their veganness and cruelty free. Those are all sort of just claims everybody kind of makes gluten free. Not that these things would have gluten in it, but they, they also are interesting. They put on their website, they put research that supports some of the claims that they're saying. And I'm talking literature research, not the testing that they actually did.

[Valerie George]

And it's interesting because is that coming from like peer reviewed literature or like literature the supplier has conducted?

[Perry Romanowski]

No, this is like things published in the journal Dermatology. We've got the clinical use of topical retinaldehyde on photo age skin, for example, Journal of the American Dermatology. So at some level this is kind of science washing if you ask me. Where, like what consumer, why is a consumer gonna look at this? But. Except it's just to impress you that oh, I've got journal articles that support what we're saying.

[Valerie George]

That's what Paula's choice says.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. So they certainly, they've taken inspiration from a bunch. But overall to your question, you know, what's, how's geek and gorgeous? You know, they, they look perfectly fine. I'm, I'm not really sold on peptides being great. And honestly, if you ask me, it doesn't surprise me that people say it performs as well as skinceuticals because I think most people can't really tell subtle differences. So if there are differences, they would be way subtle. So you know, of course you're gonna think that.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. As far as the A game goes, which is their retinol serum, not retinol, Retinal. I'm sure that's fine as well. You know, with most retinal products they're yellow because retinal is an extremely yellow ingredient. It's in an airless container, it has low doses, which I really recommend for retinal and I think they would be perfectly fine to try. The price point looks really great too. Almost hard to believe the price point. But again, I think that's like an ordinary type model where it's, you know, low margin and making it really accessible to people. So based on the fact that I've tried the products in the past and you know, they seem to be doing a good job at least with information, I think they're probably pretty good enough.

[Perry Romanowski]

You can tell why they go for the geek sing and that's why they put the research in there. Too.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, yeah, good point.

[Perry Romanowski]

Peptides, they're using matrixyl 3000 and synthe 6, which is. What's that?

[Valerie George]

That matrixyl synth 6. Yeah, that's the newest generation of Matrixyl.

[Perry Romanowski]

Is that the snake venom or whatever?

[Valerie George]

No, it's like a blend of like six Matrixyl peptides. Yeah, the Matrixyl 3000 is the peptide that I ordered. I've told this story before the podcast, and I hate feeling like Perry telling the same stories, but.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, but people haven't heard that story before. Okay, well, I've told new listeners. Right?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, yeah. So one time, you know, I worked at a hair brand for many years and this chemist was ordering all these Matrixyl peptides, and they're not for hair care, not for scalp. And they kept playing dumb, like, oh, gosh, how did these get here? But I had a feeling they were running their consistency consultancy out of the hair care lab that we worked at. So one time I was like, okay, well, if this was an accident, can I have these? And they were like, sure, sure. So I took Matrixyl 3000 and I think the studies at the time were done at like 5% or something like that. So I basically dropped Matrixyl at 5,3000, at 5% into one of my existing night creams. And I kept doing that for a while and I'd have to say I couldn't tell a difference. But also, I was like 30 at the time, so.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure, right. Yeah, 30 year old skin is still pretty good.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Plus I have good skin anyway. Like, a lot of people don't know how old I am, so I would say I'm probably not the best test subject for that, but.

[Perry Romanowski]

Matricula 3000. You know what that reminds me of?

[Valerie George]

The show with Science Something 3000. It was like a futuristic cartoon show. Mystery Science Theater.

[Perry Romanowski]

Mystery, yeah. No, it reminds me of my days of being really into ping pong. And we had this thing called the Robo Pong 2000, where it was just a robot machine that would shoot ping pong balls at you and you hit them back into a net.

[Valerie George]

What, you were into ping pong?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I was into table tennis. No, you know, it's very gauche to call it ping pong.

[Valerie George]

Oh, excuse me. You were into table tennis?

[Perry Romanowski]

No, I was like the king of my basement. And I thought I was really good. And then I joined a league and I didn't win a single game. Like, I was just crushed. They were like, at a whole new level.

[Valerie George]

Like, have you ever watched like the International Table Tennis Tournament?

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes, I have.

[Valerie George]

Out of control.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, and they all use Robo Pong 2000. All right, we got time for one.

[Valerie George]

More question comes to us from Amy. Dear Beauty Brains, I'm writing you today with a question about Z Skin Health's hydrocanone based lightning products. My cosmetic spa has incorporated both their standalone lightning cream and a separate lightning cream formulated for mixing with retinol into my skincare regimen to get rid of my sunspots. Both products contain 4% hydroquinone. And while I've noticed a significant reduction in my sunspots spots after several months of use, my skin's naturally fair. I'm puzzled by the need for two products with the same active ingredient at the same concentration. Could you shed some light on the rationale behind using both creams concurrently? Is there a synergistic effect or is this perhaps a matter of product redundancy?

[Perry Romanowski]

So using two products. So they are getting her to buy a lightning standing cream and then a separate cream that has retinol. So separate moisturizer. I think it's just kind of a way to get you to purchase more products you could get away with. I think you could probably get the same benefit by just using the retinol product. Right.

[Valerie George]

Well, 4% hydroquinone is 4% hydroquinone. And maybe there's a supplementary benefit to the other one. For example, I'm on the Zio Skin Health website. By the way, Zio Skin Health is a shoot off of Obagi Skincare. Hence Z O Z Obagi.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, there you go.

[Valerie George]

They have three hydroquinone creams where it's at 4%. One's just standard issue hydroquinone. I'm guessing that's the blending one because it calls pigment control and blending creme. There's also a brightening creme with 20% vitamin C for the most severe forms of hyperpigmentation. And then there's 4% with glycolic acid. So I would say you're probably fine buying one.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. You don't need them both. But I do have a question. How are they doing? 4% hydroquinone. I thought you, you can't do that anymore. I thought there was an over the counter. Anyway, it's got to be what, 2% limited. I know, like in the EU this probably would you. You probably couldn't get this.

[Valerie George]

But you would not be able to. Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

You'd need a prescription or something. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Should someone report them?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, no, I mean they probably somehow have worked it out that there's a prescription required or something. Right.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. So the limit in the United States for the over the counter products is 2% or less. So that would be considered like a, over the, like a drug product. You would see a drug facts panel on the back that you could go buy anywhere. And then if you want to use for 4%, it's prescription only. But this is a retail line, so I'm not aware of. And maybe you have to get this at a dermatologist office, but if this is available at a spa, that's not prescription only.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. That seems a little dicey.

[Valerie George]

Or maybe it could be available at like a Medisp spa, but where you're under the direction of a doctor, but that's still, I don't, I'm not aware that you could ever get prescription at those places.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it's, yeah, I, I don't, I don't. Well, maybe either there's something weird is going on or maybe she made a mistake and said it's not a 4% hydroquinone. I don't, I'm not seeing a 4% listed here.

[Valerie George]

Well, if Zeo Skin Health gets in trouble, it wasn't us.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right, you didn't hear it from us.

[Valerie George]

Well, Amy has another question. She's also curious about the efficacy of Eucerin's Lightning line, which contains a lower concentration of hydroquinone.2%. How does this efficacy compare to Zeoskin Health's 4%, considering both of the concentrations have a difference and the potential for different formulations influencing overall product performance?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I would say 2% being the legal limit is it's the safer one anyway.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, there's a reason they ended up doing restrictions. And I think actually almost every geographical regulatory area for cosmetics has a hydroquinone restriction of some kind. You know, maybe they differ by percentages or maybe even they're completely banned, but I would say Eucerin is, as a retail brand would be following the rules. Rules. If you got Zeo Skin Health through prescription, that might be a different story.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I'm seeing it here on this healthy skin, dermatology, medical and cosmetic HS and you, that's where you can get the, the 4% HQ ZO skin health. So, yeah, oh, it, it says, oh, I see what they've done here though. They make it, they say, I certify am a patient of this person practice. So I, I, they click on.

[Valerie George]

That's also not how prescriptions work.

[Perry Romanowski]

I, I know it seems a little dicey, so I'd stick with the Eucerin 2%. Does 4% work better than 2%. Typically with a drug, a higher level will give you better results than a lower level, although it might give you worse side effects, too. So probably 4% probably gives quicker results.

[Valerie George]

But if you're coupling it with other therapies like retinol and acids, I think 2% should just be fine.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. I would stick with the 2%. That's the legal one. And speaking of legal one, I hear the music.

[Valerie George]

Perry, that's not the music. That's Benitu tapping in the walls.

[Perry Romanowski]

That could be him. I'm going to have to go cut him out, I think. Or he's living in my walls. Or, you know, it's. It's going to be like, like vacation. Like, oh, and, you know, be. It'll be like home alone.

[Valerie George]

He's going to be home alone. He's going to be Kevin.

[Perry Romanowski]

He's just going to be running around my house eating all the food. Oh, boy. No. We'll see. Let's see what happens to him.

[Valerie George]

Well, thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please head over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to this show and leave a review that'll help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of questions, if you have a question, just record it on your smartphone and email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com or you can use the form in the show notes of the episode.

[Valerie George]

The beauty brains are also on Patreon. Patrons get their questions prioritized first on the show. You may have noticed this podcast is ad free and that's because we don't like talking about other people's stuff if we're paid to do it because then it would make us biased. We just like talking about other people's stuff because we like talking about it. Anyway, to keep the podcast ad free, we do have some basic costs of running the podcast and we use those Patreon funds to support that. If you would like to subscribe at any level and help support the show, we really appreciate it. Head over to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe.

[Perry Romanowski]

And there you get a. Your questions get a higher priority than any other questions that's coming. And a transcript of the show. Speaking of the show, we also have various social media accounts and Valerie has been very good. She's been posting away.

[Valerie George]

I did two posts.

[Perry Romanowski]

I did two more than last year. That is progress. Here on Instagram, we are hebeautybrains 2018. On X and Twitter, we're hebeautybrains on Bluesky. We're at thebeautybrains. We have a Facebook page. And, well, we do have TikTok, but it might not be around by the time you hear this show.

[Valerie George]

I just crossed it off our list. Well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks, everyone.

[D]

Kittens On a chilly morning he stood outside Too scared to step where the warm ones hide the cold crept inside so he took his chance A cautious step, a nervous glance I closed the door Hoped he'd feel all right but fear took hold and he took to flight Then he too in the wall Feeling safe, feeling small home alone he roams through the shadows he calls Got his food, got his toys got a place to call his own But I still can't help but worry While I'm so far from home I searched all around but he slipped away Hiding deep where only shadows stay I left him food left him love even a little light But I lie awake wondering if he's all right in my heart I hope he'll trust me in time but right now he needs his face to find what if he's lonely? What if he scared? Does he know how much I care? I'll be back soon just hold on tight, you're safe inside through the coldest night Betty too In the wall feeling safe, feeling small home alone he roams through the shadows he calls Got his food, got his toys got a place to call his own But I still can't help but worry while I'm so far from home Benny too In the wall yeah, I know he'll find his way when I'm back Will he stay or will he stray? Only time will tell only time will say But I just want my little friend to be okay.