Episode 393 - Jojoba Oil, Retinol, and Other Unexpected Power Couples

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Beauty Brains – Episode 393: Jojoba Oil, Retinol, and Other Unexpected Power Couples

Release Date: April 15, 2025

Hosts: Valerie George and Perry Romanowski

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Introduction

In Episode 393 of The Beauty Brains, hosts Valerie George and Perry Romanowski delve into a variety of pressing beauty topics, ranging from the presence of microplastics in cosmetics to the stability of complex skincare formulations. They also address listener questions about facial hair management, the synergistic effects of jojoba oil and retinol, and strategies for handling acne along the hairline. The episode is enriched with engaging banter, insightful discussions, and valuable scientific perspectives.

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Announcements and Personal Stories

Pretty Kitty's Pregnancy

Early in the episode, Valerie shares an exciting personal update about her cat, Pretty Kitty, who is expecting kittens. This segment is filled with humorous and heartfelt exchanges between Valerie and Perry as they discuss plans to ensure the safety of Pretty Kitty and her kittens.

Valerie George [03:07]: "We're going to have to figure out how to get her in. I mean, she's tried to come in a couple times, but I just want her cats to be safe."

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Beauty News

3D Printed Imitation Skin as an Alternative to Animal Testing

Valerie introduces a groundbreaking article from The Independent discussing the potential of 3D-printed imitation skin to replace animal testing in the cosmetics industry.

Perry Romanowski [06:02]: "I think we're a bit farther away with this technology to completely replace animal testing. Although I will say that animal testing in the industry has largely gone away for most things."

The hosts explore the current capabilities and limitations of this technology, emphasizing that while it holds promise, it cannot yet address all aspects of toxicology, such as reproductive toxicity or impacts on internal organs.

Johnson & Johnson's Talc Litigation Update

Valerie and Perry discuss the ongoing legal battles surrounding Johnson & Johnson’s talc products, highlighting the company's attempt to propose a $10 billion settlement amidst claims linking talc to ovarian cancer.

Perry Romanowski [14:30]: "Johnson and Johnson was trying to propose a $10 billion payout for something that they still say isn't really their fault or isn't really happening."

They draw parallels to Dow Corning's similar fate with silicone breast implants, noting the prolonged nature of such lawsuits.

Product Recalls Due to Contamination

The episode covers two significant recalls:

1. Henkel’s Tech Italy Shampoo Totale: Voluntary recall due to contamination with Klebsiella oxytoca, which can cause infections.

   Valerie George [17:06]: "Exposure can cause infection in the eyes, nose, and skin. And no bueno."

2. Acne Products Contaminated with Benzene: The FDA issues a recall for several acne treatments after some were found with undetectable or low levels of benzene, despite conflicting reports from independent testing firms.

   Perry Romanowski [19:13]: "There's nothing that says these are unsafe, but the FDA is going to be better safe than sorry."

The hosts criticize the reliability of certain independent testing companies and emphasize the importance of official FDA testing methods.

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Listener Questions

1. Microplastics and Other Polymers in Cosmetics (Question from Amy)

Amy, a Patreon supporter, inquires about the presence of polymers classified as microplastics in beauty products, referencing an article by dermatologists.

Amy [25:56]: "Would love to hear your thoughts. Love the show and the Porch Kitty updates."

Discussion Highlights:

• Definitions and Classifications: Valerie and Perry explain the complexities in defining microplastics, noting that not all polymers traditionally considered safe are being reclassified under new regulatory frameworks, particularly in the EU.

• Environmental Impact vs. Cosmetic Use: They highlight that, while cosmetics contribute to microplastic pollution, industries like automotive (with tire wear) and laundry (synthetic textiles) are significantly larger contributors.

Valerie George [29:13]: "Why aren't people going after these other industries as well?"

Notable Quote:

Perry Romanowski [30:34]: "Tires are 66% of microplastics. Laundry or synthetic textiles make up about 35%."

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2. Managing Facial Hair for Women (Question from Natalie)

Natalie seeks evidence-based advice on managing facial hair, questioning whether to remove it or leave it as is.

Natalie [31:53]: "I'd love to hear your insights on this topic."

Discussion Highlights:

• Personal Preference: Valerie emphasizes that removing facial hair is largely a matter of personal choice, with no definitive scientific recommendation favoring removal or retention.

• Hair Removal Methods: They discuss various methods such as shaving, laser hair removal, waxing, and threading, noting that each has its own set of benefits and considerations based on skin tone and hair color.

• Post-Removal Care: The importance of soothing the skin after hair removal is stressed to prevent irritation.

Valerie George [33:37]: "But everything else really is a personal preference."

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3. Jojoba Oil Enhancing Retinol Penetration (Question from Kat)

Kat inquires about a study suggesting that jojoba oil significantly increases the penetration of retinol into the skin.

Kat [37:11]: "Applying jojoba oil could potentially increase penetration of retinol into the skin strata by a nearly 40 fold factor."

Discussion Highlights:

• Study Credibility: Valerie and Perry scrutinize the study’s origins, noting potential biases as the research was funded by a jojoba oil supplier. They question the validity and applicability of the in vitro results to real-world scenarios.

• Scientific Mechanisms: While agreeing that jojoba oil could theoretically enhance retinol penetration due to its lipophilic properties, they caution that in vitro findings don’t always translate to in vivo efficacy.

• Practical Takeaway: Despite skepticism about the study's claims, they acknowledge that if the combination feels beneficial for the user, it can be continued without expecting significant scientific validation.

Valerie George [40:42]: "It's a little bit of a red flag...but I think jojoba oil is really fantastic."

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4. Combining Hypochlorous Acid and Azelaic Acid in Skincare Products (Question from Sammy)

Sammy wonders how a product can stably combine hypochlorous acid with azelaic acid, given their differing formulation requirements.

Sammy [47:58]: "Is it possible to make a product with this and another acid like azelaic acid, or do they cancel each other out?"

Discussion Highlights:

• Formulation Challenges: Valerie explains the solubility and pH requirements of azelaic acid, making the combination with hypochlorous acid complex. They speculate that the products are likely used in conjunction rather than being mixed in a single formulation.

• Product Structure: The mentioned brand, Topicals, appears to use a mist containing hypochlorous acid followed by a separate application of azelaic acid, thereby circumventing the stability issues.

Valerie George [48:31]: "So it's not that they're together, they're used in conjunction."

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5. Managing Hormonal Acne Along the Hairline in Teens (Question from Katie)

Katie seeks advice for her teenage son who has developed severe acne along his hairline, despite following standard recommendations.

Katie [48:46]: "What are your thoughts on things like what shampoos may be helpful?"

Discussion Highlights:

• Salicylic Acid Shampoos: They recommend using shampoos containing salicylic acid (e.g., Neutrogena Tsal) to help manage acne, as salicylic acid is an approved anti-acne ingredient.

• Conditioner Use: Valerie suggests potentially skipping conditioners or choosing non-comedogenic options to prevent further irritation and breakouts.

• Styling Products: They consider the possibility that styling products might be contributing to the acne by spreading along the hairline and recommend avoiding such products.

• Comprehensive Approach: Emphasis is placed on maintaining clean hair practices, such as changing pillowcases regularly and thoroughly rinsing shampoo.

Valerie George [50:24]: "But at first I thought, oh, maybe it's his styling products that he's wearing."

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Additional Segments

Listener Feedback and Community Engagement

Valerie and Perry interact with listener feedback, highlighting a question from Laura about unconventional marketing claims related to "skin longevity scientists." They humorously address the credibility of such titles and reinforce the importance of scientific rigor in cosmetic product claims.

Behind-the-Scenes Banter

The hosts share light-hearted moments discussing their social media presence, upcoming content for Patreon subscribers, and the creation of original music featuring "Porch Kitty." This segment underscores their commitment to engaging with their audience beyond the podcast.

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Conclusion

Episode 393 of The Beauty Brains offers a comprehensive exploration of current beauty industry challenges and innovations. Valerie George and Perry Romanowski adeptly blend scientific analysis with relatable discussions, providing listeners with informed perspectives on complex topics. From scrutinizing emerging technologies to addressing everyday skincare concerns, the episode empowers audiences to make educated decisions about their beauty routines.

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Notable Quotes:

• Valerie George [03:07]: "We're going to have to figure out how to get her in. I mean, she's tried to come in a couple times, but I just want her cats to be safe."

• Perry Romanowski [06:02]: "I think we're a bit farther away with this technology to completely replace animal testing."

• Perry Romanowski [14:30]: "Johnson and Johnson was trying to propose a $10 billion payout for something that they still say isn't really their fault."

• Perry Romanowski [30:34]: "Tires are 66% of microplastics. Laundry or synthetic textiles make up about 35%."

• Perry Romanowski [37:05]: "I'm not convinced that they do. I mean they get into your bloodstream and some parts of that will go to your skin maybe."

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Resources Mentioned:

• Reviewer Articles:

  • The Independent article on 3D-printed imitation skin.
  • Clinical Cosmetic Investigation Dermatology study on jojoba oil and retinol.

• Products:

  • Neutrogena Tsal Shampoo
  • Topicals hypochlorous acid and azelaic acid sprays

• Organizations:

  • Plastic Soup Foundation
  • European Chemical Agency (ECHA)

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Engage with The Beauty Brains:

• Patreon: Support the show at patreon.com/thebeautybrains for exclusive content and perks.
• Social Media: Follow on Instagram, X, Blue Sky, Facebook, and TikTok.
• Contact: Submit your beauty questions via audio recordings or through the show’s website.

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Remember, be brainy about your beauty!

Transcript

[Valerie George]

Hi, I'm Valerie and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetics industry. This is episode 393. I'm your host, Valerie George, and with me today is Perry Romanowski. Hi, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hello, Valerie. Great to see you as always.

[Valerie George]

Welcome back. On today's show, going to cover lots of questions and beauty news, including are cosmetic products filled with microplastics? What do you do about facial hair? Is jojoba oil good to use with retinol? How can a formula with hypochlorous acid and azelaic acid be stable? And finally, how do you handle acne at the hairline? But first, inane chit chat.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes, Valerie, I'm just back from China. You know, that's a long flight.

[Valerie George]

It is pretty far away, that's for sure.

[Perry Romanowski]

So I'm in coach and I'm next to some. A guy and his wife. And, you know, it gets the middle of the night and I'm. I don't really sleep on planes. I watched like 15 movies there and back. Yeah, but so then the guy goes to sleep and he leans on my shoulder.

[Valerie George]

Okay, for how long?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I started doing it, so I sort of moved my arm and he kind of moved a little bit. Then he went back and then eventually I was just like, I'm just watching the movie. So I just let him stay there.

[Valerie George]

Oh, that's very kind of you.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, would you just, would you just push him off or what do you do?

[Valerie George]

Well, I don't know. I am. I can sleep on planes for sure now. If I were doing an international flight, you know, I would hate to fly in coach. I mean, I do it. But I'll tell you what, when I was an executive at a leading salon brand, I was spoiled. Getting to fly business class international, it's like flying first class.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've. I've done like premium. I've never done like first class for a long flight. I've done first class like, once.

[Valerie George]

It's so hard to go back. And there's a really great meme on Instagram where Michael Jackson is, like, pointing to all the places like how his shoulder hurts and his wrist hurts and all this kind of stuff. And it's like me having to go back to economy after flying business class.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I will say, when I get on the plane, I kind of scorn at those people all in the first class who got to get on first. And then I got the big seats, free drink. You know, the worst is when you see a kid who's like, you know, seven or eight years old, they don't appreciate these things. And then they're knocking back the champagne. No, no, they aren't.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness. Well, I have a pretty big announcement to make. Yeah?

[Perry Romanowski]

What's that?

[Valerie George]

Something happened while you were gone, and somebody's pregnant.

[Perry Romanowski]

Really? Who's pregnant?

[Valerie George]

Pretty kitty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, my God. Pretty kitty.

[Valerie George]

I thought, wow, she's looking a little pudgy. And then boom. She just was bulbous in the midsection.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, wow. Wow. So you're going to have some pretty kitty kitties.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, we're going to have to figure out how to get her in. I mean, she's tried to come in a couple times, but I just want her cats to be safe. She only has one kitten left out of her litter from last year.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And I just feel like we need her.

[Perry Romanowski]

I think you want to trap her.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Get a nice trap. And actually, if there's a shelter near you, they usually will rent the traps.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

For cheap. And then you can, you know, put the food in there. They go in there, you get them. And you could take her to get TNR'd, or you can take her in and put her in a room and let her have her kittens weeks later. Adopt out the kittens and then you have your cat.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I think we want to try to get her in. Yeah, have the kittens get them in a good spot, take them to the shelter, have pretty kitty hate me for the rest of her life. You know, that kind of stuff.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, you know what? I always thought that too. But they have very short memories. So you trap them, you take them, and then two days later they forget.

[Valerie George]

Oh, I don't know.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, I've done that too. Like the heat miser puffers. They're like pals with mine. And I remember taking them and they seemed pretty traumatized by the getting TNR'd. But now they're big pals of mine.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, well, pretty kitty, she comes close to me now, mostly cause she's really hungry and I control the food. But yeah, big exciting news over our way.

[Perry Romanowski]

That is exciting.

[Valerie George]

And speaking of news, let's head over to beauty news. I found this interesting article in the Independent out of Ireland. 3D printed imitation skin could take the place of animal testing. Some cosmetic scientists say.

[Perry Romanowski]

So this is like 3D printing of skin. Actually, I've done a couple of webinars with some experts in this area. And essentially they take. They print cells. So they print a cell on a platform and then they just build it up on like a biological scaffolding until they get like, living skin.

[Valerie George]

Now, I don't want to say this is new, okay, Because I don't know that it is. When I was actually in my previous life at a salon brand, we used a company called Mattech. There's public information, and they had some kind of printed engineered tissue like this. And it was purported to be a replacement for animal testing because you could do all sorts of safety testing on basically this living tissue that was grown, but it was like real living tissue.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, that is. I mean, what they have done for a long time is you just make a agar plate full of human skin cells, and that's been able to do that for a long time. But you don't put products directly on skin cells. So you don't really know, you know, what does that data mean when something is, I don't know, changes some protein function of the biochemistry, because that's not going to happen in real life. So that's why these things have been limited. But these 3D tissue ones, they're like printing up the keratinocytes. So the dead skin is at the top and then the living stuff is near at the bottom. And they can keep these things alive for a while.

[Valerie George]

The only thing I'm a little hesitant to say, yes, this is the future and it could totally replace animal testing, is that it still doesn't cover reproductive toxicity. Of course, you need reproduction and multiple generations of a living organism to really tell that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, this may be the future. But also it doesn't print stuff like lung tissue or like, you would need a lung, like if you're breathing something in, or how does it affect internal organs like the liver? And so this is like skin that'll give you some data, but it's not telling you, like, internal organs. And that can be a little more complicated. So I think we're a bit farther away with this technology to completely replace animal testing. Although I will say that animal testing in the industry has largely gone away for most things. So I don't, you know, there's still a few things that that's not. And there's some loopholes, especially in Europe with their Reach program, where they forced.

[Valerie George]

Companies to animal test.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, exactly. But overall, the cosmetic industry, we don't really want to animal test. And so I've gotten away from it a whole bunch, which mostly means we're just using the same Chemicals we've already animal tested on and don't really use anything terribly new.

[Valerie George]

It's a lot of people want innovation in the cosmetics industry as well, especially with hair color. And they don't realize the amount of safety data that's required to build these toxic toxicology profiles of different ingredients. And some of it does require animal testing. And this is one reason why you don't necessarily see really super new innovative stuff come to market.

[Perry Romanowski]

Although I saw in cosmetics, which is happening right now, they were making a big deal about they have 211 new ingredients in their innovation zone. And I'm like looking at some of them like this doesn't seem very new. I don't know, maybe I've been in the industry too long.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, you're jaded. What did you see this week?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I was contacted by Allure and one of their reporters is writing a story about this TikTok trend where people are foregoing collagen supplements and they're using gelatin instead.

[Valerie George]

Oh, old fashioned animal gelatin, huh?

[Perry Romanowski]

Exactly. She was wondering, hey, is eating gelatin the same as a collagen supplement? And so there's this whole story about that, which is a little, which is interesting. But what do you think my take was on it?

[Valerie George]

I think that your take was probably like, it doesn't matter if it's like collagen because it's worthless. Just go eat some jello or marshmallows.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I, I mean my basic message I think is that I don't think you'll notice a difference whether you eat gelatin or collagen because neither of them are going to be doing much. But it is interesting that gelatin. Why people get these confused is that gelatin is amino. The amino acid profile of gelatin is about the same as collagen because it comes from collagen. They just. To make gelatin, you take collagen and bone stuff and stuff from animals and you break the protein down little bit. So you still have these long chains of proteins, but they've been denatured. So it's not collagen anymore, but it's still like the same amino acids. When you have a collagen supplement, they just break those down to really tiny peptides. And the idea is that it's possible when you ingest a peptide, the whole peptide does not get digested down to amino acids. Some of those peptides can sneak through the stomach and go right into your bloodstream. Whereas.

[Valerie George]

Sneaky, sneaky.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Whereas with gelatin it's such a big Molecule, it's got to get broken down over time in the stomach. So it takes longer to digest gelatin. And so that's why if you do see any difference with a collagen supplement, that is because you're, it's, it's just the peptides from the collagen, whereas the gelatin, it just takes too long to digest. And so it doesn't have the small peptides that go into intact. Into your skin.

[Valerie George]

If they do go intact into your skin.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah, no, they, I, I'm not convinced that they do. I mean they get into your bloodstream and some parts of that will go to your skin maybe. But I'm, I've only seen dubious research papers by companies that sell collagen supplements that show that it's going to have a demonstrable effect.

[Valerie George]

Something we actually agree on. I think that they don't get absorbed through your stomach. I actually think they make it to your small intestine and then they go from there. But are they intelligent and being like, let me go to skin and make this old person look young? Nah, I don't think so.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, it's just going overall. Yeah, it's, that's there. Hey, I saw Valerie, your state, your old state was in the news again. They have this, this question was, is California going to ban anti aging products for people under 18? There's this bill going through California Congress. What's going on here?

[Valerie George]

You know, this isn't the first time that that's happened. I actually commented about this on LinkedIn as well because this particular article. Because there's a reason it didn't pass the first time. This is something that is so hard to enforce. Yes. Do 10 year olds need anti aging products? Absolutely not. But this, it's not like cigarettes or alcohol, some federally controlled substance. We're talking about kids going into Sephora with their parents, credit cards.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And, and buying things that their skin doesn't need. But you know, should that be regulated? I think it's really hard to police. People can just buy online. Try going to a brewery website. Yeah, I'm 21 and literally anybody could enter that they're 21 and consent and go in and so.

[Perry Romanowski]

And that's alcohol, which is much more strictly regulated.

[Valerie George]

Like I don't think this really does anything because ultimately at the end of the day, it's up to the parent to check what their kids are buying and using. And parents just aren't interested in parenting in this kind of way.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. This kind of regulation is just theater of Doing something, you know, it's not actually going to have much impact at all, except maybe make things more inconvenient for manufacturers. But it's like a kid is in Sephora. One thing has retinol in it and one doesn't. Like, the cashier's supposed to look at the ingredient list. And that makes sense.

[Valerie George]

Oh, this product is flagged. I mean, I guess it's like cough syrup or whatever. But the other thing is like what 13 year old has an ID that they can submit to the cashier for verification? And so the cashier says, are you 18? And the child will say, yes, I am 18. And they'll be like, great, that's enough to satisfy the requirements of the law. I mean, it's absolutely crazy.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it is. So good luck. California, they always do come out. They're probably the most regulated state in our country.

[Valerie George]

New York is pretty up there, but California is also pretty up there.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, California definitely is from the environmental standpoint, but now also the not buying anti aging products either.

[Valerie George]

Well, speaking of not buying stuff, Talc, Johnson and Johnson had a talc case update. And I know for a fact you probably saw it, Perry, because you're our talc lawsuit coroner expert.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right. Well, it turns out Johnson and Johnson was trying to propose a $10 billion payout for something that they still say isn't really their fault or isn't really happening. That's the idea that people who have used talc over their lives have a higher chance of getting ovarian cancer. And according to J and J and researchers, and I think most of the science would back this up, that there is no link between talc and ovarian cancer. But there are enough people who have sued JJ that for them it's easier just to settle than to continue to fight this in court. Because when it gets to a jury, juries are not scientifically minded and they're often just siding with the. You know, it's like the little guy versus a corporation. You're gonna pick the little guy whether the science supports that or not. Anyway, what they tried to do is propose this $10 billion bailout. And it was all part of this whole strategy where part of J and J is going to go bankrupt. So they. Anyway, the lawyers on the other side have rejected this, as did the judge. So this is still going through the court system.

[Valerie George]

Wow. I don't think this is ever going to end, at least not in our lifetime.

[Perry Romanowski]

The only way I think it would end is if JJ actually goes bankrupt. And the company, like, turns into something else. Because that's what happened to Dow Corning. Dow Corning was the creator of or the manufacturer of silicone breast implants.

[Valerie George]

Yep.

[Perry Romanowski]

There was a whole court case about that. They settled and they ended up going bankrupt. And then they came back because Dow Corning's still around, but they still had to pay out. Eventually it was found out that there was no link between silicone and breast implants and bad health. But did they get their money back? They did not get their money back.

[Valerie George]

No, they did not.

[Perry Romanowski]

That is not how it works.

[Valerie George]

Well, some people can get their money back. We have a couple bits of news in the recall news.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah, recall news.

[Valerie George]

The first one, the FDA announced a Mexican division of Henkel, specifically Henkel Capital sadcv is voluntarily recalling over a thousand units of its Tech Italy shampoo Totale because it's been contaminated with Klebsiella oxytocin.

[Perry Romanowski]

Klebsiella oxytosa.

[Valerie George]

Never heard of it.

[Perry Romanowski]

How'd that get in there?

[Valerie George]

We don't know, but exposure can cause infection in the eyes, nose and skin. And no bueno. So not a whole lot of units. But if you bought it, check it out, you can contact them and get your money back.

[Perry Romanowski]

Now, Henkel, is the company behind. It's a German company, but it's behind Dial. Do they make other things we would know?

[Valerie George]

Well, they own Schwarzkopf, which is a big hair brand.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I guess they have T. Rex also.

[Valerie George]

Oh, interesting.

[Perry Romanowski]

So they have a bunch of different brands. So anyway, if you have any of those, we'll put a link in the show notes. But they have a lot. Number one, G2754, 2266. If you have that one, bring it back because it's contaminated. Whoa.

[Valerie George]

Yikes. There was another big recall. Did you see this? The FDA issuing a voluntary recall of acne products due to benzene contamination.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wait, this whole benzene thing again? This is still going on?

[Valerie George]

It's back. Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, okay. What. What happened here?

[Valerie George]

So basically, an independent testing company. Testing.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wait, let me guess. Is it VAL Share or the VAL Company?

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh. I actually think they did do this. Yeah. So basically what happened is there was this big to do about benzoyl peroxide products containing too high of levels of benzene. And they tested hundreds of products. Well, the FDA went through and tested 95 of them and found that most of the products had undetectable or extremely low levels of benzene. So whatever this company was publishing in the news could not be Validated, but some of them did test. And so recalls are being conducted at the retail level, not the consumer level. So basically, wherever you bought the product, other retailers are removing it from the stores. But consumers are not required to be notified all the way. Like Walgreens is not required to notify you, right. That you have a product that could have, you know, a high benzene content.

[Perry Romanowski]

In it or a detectable level of benzene. There's nothing that says these are unsafe, but, you know, the. The FDA is going to be better safe than sorry. So it looks like we have La Roche Passe, the Facular Duo Dual Action Treatment, which expires in April 25, the Walgreens acne Control Cleanser Proactive Emergency Blemish Relief Cream with benzoyl peroxide at 5%, proactive skin smoothing exfoliator, SLMD benzoyl peroxide acne Lotion, and Walgreens Tinted Acne Treatment Cream. All of these are being recalled. But like you said, this is on a company or a distributor level, not on a consumer level.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. So again, just the retailers have to take them off their shelves. Now, you may be wondering how this testing company got so many positive results and the FDA didn't. Why do you think that is?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I think the company that is doing this is trying to make news. So they're going to make a test that's more sensitive than what maybe the FDA is going to do.

[Valerie George]

And it's not even the test is more sensitive. It could just be a bad test method. Like they could be heating the sample. And heat can cause things to decompose and generate benzene. Right. But in ordinary conditions, your product wouldn't be exposed to the high levels of heat that would be required for that reaction to happen. So I think it's probably just not a great test method. And that's actually what happened with Valisure with the sunscreens and benzene. The FDA came in and looked at their test method and said, hey, wait a second, your test method is terrible. And it's creating all these false results.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And didn't stop them.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, you know, they stay in the news by being provocative. And so I wouldn't say they're exactly lying, but they're rigging the game. So it shows something that's beneficial to them and negative to all these companies.

[Valerie George]

And I bet they have something to sell. At the end of the day, you just wait. They're gonna come out and be like, wait, but did you know we have this patented technology. If you used our technology, you Wouldn't have benzene.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, and people say I'm the cynical one on the show.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness. Well, we also have listener feedback, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, here's one from Laura who said. Hey, Valerie and Perry, a funny thing happened while I was enjoying your daily podcast. I just had to write and tell you about it. I just heard a commercial for one skin products and the ad touted their quote, mastermind ingredient is the OS1 peptide that works at the cellular level. And then the company was founded and led by an all women team of skin longevity scientists.

[Valerie George]

Oh, wow.

[Perry Romanowski]

And she said, sorry, but may I ask, what is a skin longevity scientist and how does one become that? Thank you for all the hard work that you do to educate your audience and the sheer nonsense abounding from so many cosmetic companies. Your loyal patron member, Laura. Well, thank you for that, Laura. Now, Valerie, are you a skin longevity scientist?

[Valerie George]

I am a hair longevity scientist.

[Perry Romanowski]

Now, is that for making hair longer or keeping it longer?

[Valerie George]

Well, I think having your hair grow longer.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, gotcha. Okay. Long, Jeff. So not keeping it on your head longer, just letting it grow.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, yeah, I can't help you with that. I'm sorry.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know what's funny? This reminds me of a time I was on LinkedIn and we had this person come and give a presentation at Alberto at, you know, some corporate presentation. Anyway, she sold herself as a futurologist.

[Valerie George]

And like a psychic?

[Perry Romanowski]

No, no, no. Like a trend predictor or she's able to forecast the future. So she called herself a futurologist. And I just think that was just ridiculous. So I added that to my own LinkedIn where I'm like, well, I'm a futurologist. Like anybody can be that, right? It's kind of like a skin longevity scientist, right? You could just say you are and then automatically, I guess you are.

[Valerie George]

That's ridiculous.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hey, I saw Brian from Texas also had some feedback on one of our show number 386.

[Valerie George]

Brian said, hi beauty brains. I love the ending song Cat in the wall from episode 386. I couldn't find any info on the artist or who performed the song in the show notes. Could you kindly provide the info about the song? Where else can I stream it? Thanks.

[C]

Any two in the wall.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, it's so good to know people like the Porch Kitty. It's a song from the Porch Kitty album, which has not been published anywhere. But it will be going up on our Patreon account very soon.

[Valerie George]

So we need to add one bonus track though, about pretty Kitty and her future babies.

[Perry Romanowski]

You send me a story about Pretty Kitty and the babies and I'll put one together. But. All right, to all your patrons out there, I'm gonna put up a series of the Porch Kitty songs. Cause we have like 10 of them or something.

[Valerie George]

We do.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. So there you go. Well, thank you for that, though. The artist is Perry GPT. That's what I call it.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my God.

[Perry Romanowski]

Me and my AI pal, we kind of work together to craft the lyrics and eventually come out with a song.

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh. Well, let's head over to our questions. Our first question comes to us from Amy, who is a patron on Patreon. Hi, beauty Brains. I know that microplastics aren't great, but what are your thoughts on other polymers used in beauty personal care products? Specifically in response to this piece on Medscape and an accompanying paper by these authors. These authors are dermatologists, not chemists. And I know from listening to your podcast and my daughter that not all polymers are made alike. Full disclosure, my daughter is a materials science and engineering student concentrating in polymers. My hunch is that their conclusion are a bit sweeping and simplistic as new materials are always being developed, many with biodegradable properties. Plus, a lot of these products perform really well. Would love to hear your thoughts. Love the show and the portugitty updates. Amy.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I saw this article, and the first thing I, the first claim that caught my eyes is it said there's 500 plus microplastics in cosmetics, because I, I thought microplastics were pretty much gotten out of cosmetics, certainly out of like body washes and exfoliators and that kind of thing.

[Valerie George]

Well, physical microplastics, yes, where it's like a bead of a certain size and it's a physical particle. But now they're saying that certain acrylate copolymers or polyethylene polymers are microplastics. And there's becoming some specific definitions around these different polymers about whether or not they could be microplastics, that most of that regulatory framework is coming out of the eu. But if you ask, let's say an acrylates copolymer manufacturer, they'll say, well, technically, when it's not in water, it would be a microplastic. But once you solubilize it in water and the arms swell and it changes its conformation and solubility, it's no longer a microplastic and can't revert back into a microplastic. So I think there's a lot of confusion in this space, even as a formulator myself, to be honest.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Well, I think what's happening here is some NGOs, but like one of the main ones is Plastic Soup Foundation. They made a list of all the different synthetic polymers that they think should be considered microplastics, but it doesn't mean they are microplastic. Right. Well, there is the European Chemical Agency and this is a. They're part of a regulating body in Europe. And they have suggested that maybe some things that aren't technically considered microplastics should be. But you know, that's based on the ETA's list, which could include film formers, emulsifiers and a bunch of thickeners, a bunch of things that, you know, I don't think should haven't been considered. So essentially now the echa, they are scientists, so it's not like this is just the NGO just making these things up. So that is something to consider. But if you're looking at their definition of microplastics, well, they say things like Nylon 12, which is going to be found in like powdered cosmetics, that would be considered that. Or polystyrene, which is a pacifier. It's a lot fewer than 500 ingredients. But there are some ingredients which they would consider microplastics, which currently aren't considered microplastic by regulations. Now there's things that aren't considered microplastics, which the NGO would say is like a thing like PvP, which is a film former and hairspray, because PVP is water soluble. So when PVP gets in water, it solubilizes, so it goes away and then that's where it can get broken out. So it's not a microplastic floating around. Neither is hydroxyethylcellulose, which is also on that list. Sodium polyacrylate.

[Valerie George]

I mean, it's so crazy. And by the way, there's natural forms of sodium polyacrylate that are being developed, but also it's completely biodegradable.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. So there you go. And carbamer2 is another one in there. So basically what you have here is an article by dermatologists who are kind of fear mongering. They don't really know what's in cosmetics and they're relying on NGOs and an incomplete or a not widely accepted definition of microplastics to, well, essentially fear monger. Because this article said that they think microplastics could be completely banned from cosmetics.

[Valerie George]

Well, I don't think they'll. I mean, they're going to create framework around what is a microplastic and what isn't. And then those things will be restricted, of course. But I think there's just a lot of other industries that use these materials as well. And they use them in way larger quantities than cosmetic products. And it's really not a safety concern, it's an environmental concern. So why aren't people going after these other industries as well?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, it's interesting you say that because. Let's play a little game, Valerie. Okay, I looked, I looked it up and specifically what industries create the most microplastics? What do you think the number one microplastic is made?

[Valerie George]

Laundry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Laundry is number two. This is even bigger than laundry.

[Valerie George]

The automotive industry.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right. Rubber tires.

[Valerie George]

Wow.

[Perry Romanowski]

Every time you drive your car, you're making little microplastics that get into the environment. When it rains, it gets into the waterways and that eventually makes its way into, well, the oceans. So yeah, tires are 66% of microplastics. Laundry or synthetics textiles make up about 35%. Then we have paints and coatings from like boats and such.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, that's what I actually was going to say the shipping industry, but then I was like, nah, I mean, that's big, but it's not that big, right?

[Perry Romanowski]

It's about 10%. We have industrial processes, I guess, synthetic polymer creations or something about 5%. And you know what? Cosmetics ends up 0.06%, 0.3% according to this. But yeah, less than 1%. And yet who gets all the regulations or gets all the bad press? It's the cosmetic industry. So I don't know. I don't know if these guys are trying to solve a problem while ignoring the really big problems.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. It's no way to move the needle. But speaking of needles, our next question comes to us from Natalie.

[Perry Romanowski]

Natalie says. Hey, Beauty Brains team. I love your podcast because I really appreciate your science based approach to skincare. I have a question about skincare for people, women specifically, with noticeable facial hair or peach fuzzy. I wanted to ask if there is any evidence based recommendations for those who, number one, choose to remove the facial hair so by razors or lasering or waxing, or choose to leave that facial hair as it is. I'd love to hear your insights on this topic. Thank you for all your great work, Natalie.

[Valerie George]

I don't think there's evidence based information that we have that says choose one method over another because I really think it comes down to personal preference and probably skin tone, how thick your hair is how thin your hair is. I do know that the only thing that I can think of that probably has scientific literature behind it is if you have too dark of a skin tone or your hair is too light in color, laser hair removal is not a good option for you because the way the laser works is it detects, you know, the dark brown pigment melanin found within your hair. It's really electron rich and so it gets attracted to it. And if your hair is too light, it means you don't have enough melanin in your hair fiber for the laser to find. And if your skin is too dark, it also can't tell a difference. And that has a ton of evidence behind it and also just consumer experience. So I think that's only one that I can think of. But everything else really is a personal preference, right?

[Perry Romanowski]

You can leave it on or shave it or pluck it or wax it. I think the thing is, if you're going to do that, you'll want to soothe the skin afterwards.

[Valerie George]

Well, you, you shave regularly, right?

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I do. I mean, when I think of it. But I mean, I, I would not take product use advice from me because I'm a terrible cosmetic product user. But, you know, my skin is still there and I shave without putting anything extra on. But I think most people would, their skin would feel better if they do apply something afterwards. Maybe something anti inflammatory. The thing I will say about it is also, there's no truth to the idea that if you shave it, it's going to make it grow back faster. Faster.

[Valerie George]

No evidence for that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Nor is waxing going to make it grow back faster or anything. So it's just going to grow how it grows.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Now, I have done a couple things. Well, one, obviously I've left my facial hair as is like most people. But one time I was getting my eyebrows groomed. This was, gosh, maybe it was over 10 years ago for sure. And Mr. Cosmetic Chemist came with me because he also needed his eyebrows done, but not too done. You know, just done enough for a guy to get rid of the real scragglies and trim the hair. And Mr. Cosmetic Chemist said, do you want to get your mustache done? And I was like, I, excuse me, I don't have a mustache. And it was this Armenian woman who we'd been going to her for years at that point. And Mr. Cosmetic Chemist said, you know, Angie, do you think she has a mustache? And she always wore these magnifying glasses over her eyes when she was waxing or, you know, like tweezing so she could see. So she. Her eyes were real googly looking and she was like, yes, she has mustache like that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow.

[Valerie George]

And anyway, so I got my mustache waxed. And you know, it wasn't too bad because I felt like all one rip. But sometimes you get like a lot of little bumps on the skin. Getting your mustache threaded is the worst because it's like a little string plucking out all your hairs one by one and it's even getting the little tiniest of hairs. It's so painful and terrible.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wait, can, can you just do that right after you use the dental floss that you're using? And then. But is it like that?

[Valerie George]

Like, you know, I wonder if they could use the old fashioned dental floss. You know, the kind that actually looks like a mini rope, I bet.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure. H. Yeah. Huh.

[Valerie George]

Anyway, yeah, so you're right, skin is delicate. It does need to be taken care of, maybe with like an ointment afterwards. But I've also just done shaving as well and that's been fine because it gets rid of all the peach fuzz. And I just put like a lubricant on my face. Mo mostly it's my mustache. Guys don't get crazy, but everyone has peach fuzz, like even on their cheeks and stuff like that. So I've done that because I just don't have a ton of hair to where I can get lasered. My facial hair is actually blonde except for my eyebrows.

[Perry Romanowski]

But yeah, you know, when I was in China, I saw a guy there who I think he tattooed on some eyebrows.

[Valerie George]

Huh.

[Perry Romanowski]

Because his eyebrows, I mean, he had some hair with eyebrows, but his eyebrows looked a little tattooed, I think. So do people do that?

[Valerie George]

People do. It's very common.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, there you go. Speaking of common, we got an audio question. This one comes to us from Kat.

[D]

Hi, Beauty Brains. I'm one of the folks who came across your podcast thanks to the New York Times recommendation and have really been enjoying listening to your insights into the beauty industry and formulating. Thank you so much. My question today is I stumbled upon a peer reviewed study that says applying jojoba oil could potentially increase penetration of retinol into the skin strata by a nearly 40 fold factor and wondered what you thought about that. I've been applying a generic form of differin and following that up with Valera's rose oil whose main ingredient is jojoba oil, and think I'll do that probably no matter what, as my skin seems to like it and I like the scent and formulations, but Just was curious if maybe this means my retinol is working. Working for me. Even better. Look forward to your thoughts. Thank you again.

[Perry Romanowski]

Bye, Valerie. She found us through the New York Times article, so yay.

[Valerie George]

Isn't it so funny that we, like, totally forgot about it and casually mentioned it at the end of an episode and now I am, like, telling everybody.

[Perry Romanowski]

There you go. All right, how about this question? Did you see this paper? She shared a paper where it says applying jojoba oil could increase penetration of retinol by 40 fold. I guess that's 40 times, which is a lot. I took a look at this and this was in Clinical Cosmetic Investigation Dermatology.

[Valerie George]

I actually know the main author on this paper. Really, I do. James V. Gruber. He also goes by Vince Gruber professionally. And anytime you see a study, this is like Study 101. What are they telling me and why are they giving me the information? Usually that's who funded the study, who's behind the information. These people work at a company called Vantage, and they purchased a handful of years ago a jojoba farm operation. And so they sell a lot of Hoba oil.

[Perry Romanowski]

So, yeah, the study was conducted entirely by researchers affiliated with that single cosmetic ingredient supplier. So, yeah, that's a little bit of a red flag. Also, I didn't see that there was a mention of peer review beyond being published in an open access journal. It's a little, you know, interesting.

[Valerie George]

I would like to lower the red flags a little bit because.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay, lower. Lower the red. Yeah, Well, I mean, we know. We know, Vince.

[Valerie George]

It's a red flag. Okay. I mean, yeah, it is a red flag. It's, you know, it was. They have a product to sell or that their bosses have to sell, and it's in an open access journal, no peer review. Okay, I get it. But I think jojoba oil is really fantastic. And it's something we take for granted in products because we just think, oh, jojoba oil, it's been around forever. But it actually wasn't really commercially available until the late 1960s. And my mentor was one of the first people to formulate a hair product with it, and he couldn't even get it. This was in the mid-1960s because you just. There was no way to get it. But now it's so ubiquitous everywhere. And I think it's really great. It has a really interesting chemical profile. It's called an oil, but it's actually a liquid wax. It has a lot of great synergy with our skin. It's super stable. And so I'm not surprised that there is some data behind it because I think it's, I personally think it's a wonder oil.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, we had a VO5 jojoba oil version of, I mean we just put a drop in there and it just rinsed right out. But it was one of our better sellers. People love jojoba oil.

[Valerie George]

I actually think it's a really great oil for skin.

[Perry Romanowski]

So what's this deal about the 40 fold increase? Now it says it's in vitro. So how does that, does that translate to in vivo? So in vitro means it's just in the lab, in vivo. That just suggests that there wasn't a study done on people. So you can't really. Does it translate or not? Who knows?

[Valerie George]

I don't know if you can do a study. Now the method that they used is called a skin PAMPA method and basically it's a permeation assay which tells you how. Well at least into skin, because this is skin pampa. There's, you know, there's other varietals like mucous membranes and all that kind of stuff. But it basically just tells you, yes, in vitro. How well does something penetrate into skin? I don't think you could do it on a human without taking some kind of biopsy or analyzing blood levels.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right, blood, yeah, blood levels. Or you could do tape stripping, maybe see how far it goes down. I don't know. But then the retinol might. Yeah, it would be hard to do. I was looking at this, this PAMPA that uses a synthetic skin model. So it's not, not human skin. And you know, we used to use pig skin. Okay, you would, you would take a little aluminum tube and you'd put the pits, pig skin in there and it's test how long it takes to get into the water below. So that's, that's like the old fashioned way of doing it for pen, for penetration. You know what would be good for this? That 3D printed skin.

[Valerie George]

I know. Wow. We should, we should tell Vince about it.

[Perry Romanowski]

So as far as this 40 fold increase, I know the scientists who did it were probably sincere and they got the data, they got whether it translates into real life, that is yet to be seen. I don't think this study proves that. However, the most important piece was that you feel good using the jojoba oil with the retinol and maybe it's giving you a boost. Probably not, but from my skeptical point of view, but you know, you might as well keep doing it.

[Valerie George]

Well, now let Me? Just play devil's advocate here, please. Okay, which.

[Perry Romanowski]

Which devil are you? Which side is the devil on?

[Valerie George]

I'm on the jojoba oil side, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, gotcha. Okay, okay, now, so you would be the jojoba advocate or something?

[Valerie George]

I put the V in vantage. I'm just kidding. I don't. Guys, okay? I just know them, you know, they're great materials. The jojoba oil is fantastic. Anyway, so it kind of. The results they got kind of make sense if you think about it, because retinol is an oil soluble material. The oil soluble retinol is a vitamin A derivative, and all the oil soluble vitamins are D A, K, E, dake. So think Drake without the R. And it makes sense. If you add a significant quantity of oil, such as 10% jojoba oil, to a cream that contains retinol, you could get more penetration into skin. Now, your skin doesn't like water, but it is accepting pretty much of some lipophilic materials.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I mean, all you say is correct there. I will say they did blend it with soybean oil too. So you don't know. Was the soybean oil the one that held it? They didn't do the study where they just did jojoba oil by itself and soybean oil by itself.

[Valerie George]

Oh, yeah. Maybe they couldn't afford. Afford the jojoba oil.

[Perry Romanowski]

They make it. I'm sure they can afford it. But sometimes when you're doing industry research, you're not as scientifically rigorous as you might be if you're doing university research because you don't necessarily want to find out something you don't want to find out, you know?

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's why I'm skeptical of most cosmetic research. It's because the research is not done necessarily to answer the question that you really want to know. It's to answer the question that business wants you to find the answer to. So he's biased in that way?

[Valerie George]

Well, I guess I could ask Vince the next time I see him, if I remember.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, maybe he'll just hear us talking about it on the show, because he does listen. You do listen, don't you, Vince?

[Valerie George]

I hope not.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right. Boy, oh, boy, look at us go. We've got a question from a patron. Question from Sammy says, hi, beauty brains. I have hopped on the trend of hypochlorous acid spray, as a lot of people have, but I have a question about it. Is it possible to make a product with this and another acid like azelaic acid, or do they cancel Each other out. The brand Topicals has a spray with both ingredients and I can't wrap my brain around how they could formulate that properly, especially since azelaic acid is already said to be tough to formulate. Thanks in advance. Have you formulated with azelaic acid?

[Valerie George]

I have. I also use it. I use the prescription strength because I have rosacea and it's been very effective, I do have to say, in helping clear up my rosacea pustules.

[Perry Romanowski]

Now you don't use it around where you shave your mustache though, right?

[Valerie George]

No, I put it all over. I mean, the directions say just to put it where your rosacea breakout is, but I put it all over my whole face.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, okay. Hey, your face looks great, so.

[Valerie George]

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Now, it is an interesting predicament because azelaic acid has a very specific set of requirements for getting it into solution. It has extremely low water solubility. Like extremely, extremely, extremely low water solubility.

[Perry Romanowski]

And it has to be in a low, low ph. Like ph of 3 to 3 to 4 or so.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

But I'm surprised they could get it into a spray with hypochlorous acid, which, I mean, one, I don't believe in anyway. But two, I mean, they must not be using a lot of azelaic acid because there's no way you could get 10%, which is like the minimum you need to be effective in a spray with hypochlorous acid that's primarily water based.

[Perry Romanowski]

And hypochlorous acid that you need the ph of like 5, you know, before it starts to oxidize or something. So, yeah, that's. It is a head scratcher. How. How do you think they do it? Just use a really low level of hypochlorous acid and not a high level of the azelaic acid.

[Valerie George]

I mean, it has to be fairy dust in there. Right. The. The other thing is I actually couldn't find one product that on the topicals website that put them together because I was like, how is this even possible? Yeah, So I went to look. I actually found that they have a routine where there's like this mist that you put on your skin and that has the hypochlorous acid. It also has salicylic acid, which also was a head scratcher because they basically have to put a ton of denatured alcohol into the product to get the salicylic acid to dissolve, because that's also oil soluble. And then they have a bunch of water soluble stuff otherwise. But the second product that you apply after the mist is the one with the azelaic acid. And I can tell you where it's at in the ingredient list. And the fact that they don't have a percentage disclosed, at least on their website, tells me there probably is not a lot of azelaic acid even in the second product that you apply. So it's not that they're together, they're used in conjunction.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay. Yeah. Well, interesting. It is a would be a formulation challenge which they probably get around by keeping the products separated, I guess.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Pretty clever, huh?

[Perry Romanowski]

Looks like we have time for one.

[Valerie George]

More question comes to us from Katie. Hi, Valerie and Perry. Absolutely love your show and I'm writing in for the first time in hopes you see this and can help. My teen son has developed moderate hormonal acne over the past year. We've worked with his pediatrician on treatments for his face. But lately I've noticed a worsening of really severe breakdown breakouts at and beyond his hairline. I've read so many suggestions. Changing his pillowcase every other day, making sure he's fully rinsing out his shampoo, using non comedogenic conditioners, etc. And I'm curious about what your thoughts are on things like what shampoos may be helpful. Lots of suggestions for Neutrogena T cell shampoo and if he should be avoiding conditioners altogether. Any other thoughts on best ways to tackle this are appreciated. Thank you for all you do to educate us.

[Perry Romanowski]

Katie, you know what I thought when I read this?

[Valerie George]

What?

[Perry Romanowski]

She must be a really nice mom. She's doing all this effort. I remember when I was growing up and it's probably because there were seven of us. That's a lot of kids. But my mom didn't give. She never gave me any acne advice or any personal hygiene advice when I was in high school and such.

[Valerie George]

Carrie. I had a wart on my lip in fifth grade. My nickname was wart lip. And it wasn't until I cried and cried and cried that my parents need to get it removed.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, that's so just different parenting, but it's very nice. All right, so let's talk about this. The Neutrogena Tsal shampoo. That sounds like a good idea because salicylic acid is in fact one of the approved ingredients for anti acne. And so if it's in that Neutrogena product, it should help with that.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, salicylic acid is really great. It's hard because I get it, you put this shampoo on your Head and then you put a conditioner on afterwards. Conditioners usually have oils. They have a lot of plant esters and waxes.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wait, you know which one that doesn't have oils? VO5. Oh, yeah, it's a citrimonium chloride.

[Valerie George]

Well, great recommendation. But it still has fatty alcohol, right?

[Perry Romanowski]

It does have cetyl alcohol and. Yeah, yeah, it does have it. But those rinse are right.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, that's true. And so at first I thought, oh, maybe it's his styling products that he's wearing. Because when you leave a styling product on the hair, your scalp emanates a ton of heat, believe it or not, and it slowly melts the products and has them dissipate all over the whole scalp. And you can get a lot of gathering around the hairline. And so I didn't see a hair styling product mentioned here, but that would be my first recommendation to make sure he's absolutely putting nothing there. But then I would just try the tea style shampoo. And depending on the length of his hair, honestly, maybe he could even skip the conditioner.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, when I was in high school, I didn't use conditioner. But again, don't.

[Valerie George]

I don't think you use conditioner now, do you?

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah, I use it now.

[Valerie George]

Oh, what do you use?

[Perry Romanowski]

I have my own conditioner that I created and I'm working on.

[Valerie George]

Oh, that's right. You have tons of bottles of it. You have to use it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, this is what happened. You do a production run and then if you don't sell them all out, they're just in your basement and you just use them up.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh. We should give some away to our patrons.

[Perry Romanowski]

We should. That'd be nice of us. We should do a new run.

[Valerie George]

Well, yeah, no, it's a really tough thing and I actually. This is public information. They advertised that I worked for them. I'm a scientific advisor for the company. But there's a company called Ochre and they actually created a product line based on fungal acne and having.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wait, you're putting fungal acne on?

[Valerie George]

Oh, no. The product was based on like, how do you combat fungal acne? Right. Because one of the founders, he had an exact same dilemma like this, and they did a ton of research on what ingredients can contribute to this type of phenomenon. And they actually have a really great database that you could look through and great information resource as well, but it's called Ochre and. Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

O C R E O C H R E. All right, well, you know what. Do you hear that music?

[Valerie George]

Is it A cat song?

[Perry Romanowski]

No, that happens way at the end.

[Valerie George]

Oh, bummer. Thanks for listening, everyone.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hey, if you get a chance, could you head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a review? It's gonna help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty question questions to answer.

[Valerie George]

Speaking of questions, we love audio questions with real human voices. So easy to do. Just record one on your smartphone and email it to the beautybrainsmail.com or you can even use the form in the show notes on this episode.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, and you know, the AI is not that hard to do either, but it's not nearly.

[Valerie George]

But we hate it, Perry. We hate it. The listeners have spoken.

[Perry Romanowski]

They some have spoken. Hey, you know, the Beauty Brains are on Patreon. If you notice, we didn't have any commercials in this thing because, you know, we can't be completely objective if we're running commercials. And so in order to do that, we require your support on Patreon. So if you want to support the show and you appreciate what we do, go to patreon.com the Beautybrain and subscribe at any level. Not only do you get a transcript, you also get your questions, a higher priority. And you can hear the full song of the Porch Kitties.

[Valerie George]

And you're gonna. Yeah, you're gonna get the full album one day.

[Perry Romanowski]

The full album, it may be free.

[Valerie George]

Product that's been piled in Perry's basement.

[Perry Romanowski]

Closet for years, which still works wonderfully.

[Valerie George]

I bet it does. Also working wonderfully is our social media accounts this year on Instagram. We're at the Beautybrains 2018 on X. We're at the Beauty Brains on Blue Sky. We're at the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page and a TikTok talk.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, you know, I've tried to stay away from social media lately. Yeah, it's too depressing to me. I don't know why. But you know what? I'm gonna try to get us on YouTube now, too. So we'll just have parts of our podcast on YouTube. It'll just be static pictures, but that'll be something.

[Valerie George]

And the cat songs could be helpful while people are cleaning. They could listen to the show and then the cat songs come on.

[Perry Romanowski]

That is so true. Porch Kitty.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh. Well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks, everyone. Kittens.

[C]

She frou in her own highway Trying to talk some to you they're on the frown. Jesus, listen to him. How? DJ comes homes on the deck she's taking a snooze? While beneath our boo Shares of loving news he misers under bushes? Yeah, he's laying low Waiting for the moment to steal Puffer's show orange Kids Living life free and wild Each one's got their own style Ain't no docile child from dawn to dust they claim in their space and then Chicago backyard is their own dang place Boy Cheese Living life free and wild Each one's got their own style Ain't no dog style Trout from dawn to dusty they're claiming their space and then Chicago backyard is their own dang place.