Episode 395 - The Klutziest Beauty Podcast?

Summary

Podcast Title: The Beauty Brains
Episode: 395 - The Klutziest Beauty Podcast?
Release Date: May 8, 2025
Hosts: Valerie George and Perry Romanowski

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Introduction

In Episode 395 of The Beauty Brains, hosts Valerie George and Perry Romanowski dive into a plethora of beauty-related topics, blending scientific insights with lighthearted banter. This episode, aptly titled "The Klutziest Beauty Podcast?", not only addresses listeners' pressing questions but also shares personal anecdotes that add a relatable flair to the scientific discussions.

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Behind the Scenes: Solo Episode and AI Voices

Perry begins by recounting his recent solo episode, which Valerie encourages in her absence. Their conversation humorously touches upon the use of AI voices in podcasting.

• Valerie George [00:29]: "On today's show, we're going to cover a lot of questions, Perry..."

• Perry Romanowski [01:22]: "Instead of reading all the questions, I would make AI voices."

Valerie reassures Perry about the reception of his voice, highlighting that listeners appreciate his authentic tone despite his own reservations.

• Valerie George [02:12]: "People will say, I love your voice on the podcast."

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Upcoming Events: Handcrafted Soap and Cosmetic Guild Conference

Valerie shares her excitement about the Handcrafted Soap and Cosmetic Guild annual show in Reno, detailing her experiences from previous conferences in Canada. They discuss the growth of DIY beauty product crafting and the community's enthusiasm for hands-on demonstrations.

• Valerie George [03:25]: "It's a few hundred people... it's moved around city to city."

Valerie also touches upon the specialized nature of soap making within the cosmetic chemistry field, emphasizing the distinct skill sets involved.

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Personal Stories: Feline Friends and Adventures

The hosts share amusing and heartfelt stories about their feline companions. Valerie narrates the survival saga of her cat, Valerie, who lived on Kangaroo Island for over a year, showcasing the resilience and adaptability of pets.

• Perry Romanowski [18:57]: "Can you believe it? That the little miniature dachshund lived on the island with kangaroos for over a year and a half."

Valerie humorously connects her own clumsiness to the episode's theme, as shared anecdotes about injuries add a personal touch to the conversation.

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Beauty News: Evaluating New Skincare Ingredients

Valerie and Perry dissect a Hollywood Reporter article spotlighting the "best new skincare ingredients." They critically analyze the efficacy and scientific backing of these ingredients, expressing skepticism where warranted.

1. Bakuchiol as a Retinol Alternative

   • Valerie George [08:56]: "There's only one supplier... they show a lot of efficacy compared to retinol."
   • Perry Romanowski [10:05]: "Maybe it's more difficult for them to produce it because it's got to be a limited supply."

2. Malassezia (Yeast)

   • Valerie George [10:25]: "Malassezia is a predominant yeast flora on your scalp."

3. Growth Factors

   • Perry Romanowski [11:36]: "Growth factors have been around for a long time... mostly studied in pharmaceutical applications."

4. Sturgeon DNA Extract

   • Valerie George [12:13]: "People don't want animal extracts until it promises something, right?"

5. Coenzyme Q10

   • Valerie George [13:43]: "My mentor... took oral COQ10 and felt it helped him cognitively."

The hosts express caution regarding the marketing claims of these ingredients, stressing the importance of scientific validation and transparency from manufacturers.

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Listener Feedback and Community Stories

Valerie and Perry engage with listener feedback, sharing stories and addressing concerns.

• Zach's Feedback [19:51]: Discusses the effectiveness of spray-on sunscreens, referencing Lab Muffin's video on SPF application.

  • Perry Romanowski [20:05]: "Spray-ons are the worst kind of sunscreen... not necessarily the greatest protection."

• Darling's Story [21:34]: Relates Valerie's clumsiness through incidents like falling down steps and off a ladder.

  • Valerie George [22:15]: "Did I ever tell you what someone wrote to me on Instagram because I just put I got the black eye?"

These interactions highlight the podcast's community-driven approach, blending humor with informative discussions.

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Beauty Questions: Expert Advice from the Brains

1. Leave-In Conditioners with Minimal Protein

Question from Carrie [22:59]:
“Can you recommend a really good leave-in moisturizer conditioner with a little bit of protein for fine, curly, colored blonde hair?”

• Valerie George [23:25]:
  "Most leave-in conditioners have just a bit of protein... I would steer clear of hydrolyzed keratin and wheat protein."

• Perry Romanowski [25:17]:
  "It's not really strengthening your hair, it's just making it less prone to breaking."

Conclusion:
Opt for leave-in conditioners with flexible proteins like hydrolyzed soy or pea protein, or consider protein-free formulas to reduce breakage without adding stiffness.

2. Special Fraction Petrolatum in Theraplex Barrier Balm

Question from Katie [25:34]:
“What is special fraction petrolatum and why does it feel so amazing?”

• Perry Romanowski [26:02]:
  "Special fraction petrolatum is just a more refined version of standard petrolatum... it's safe for use."

• Valerie George [26:30]:
  "All products in cosmetics use USP grade petrolatum to ensure purity."

Addressing Regulatory Concerns:

• Valerie George [27:03]:
  "Cyclomethicone is being regulated in California and not permitted in Europe... Theraplex may need to reformulate."

Conclusion:
Special fraction petrolatum is a highly refined, safe form of petrolatum commonly used in cosmetics. However, consumers should be aware of upcoming regulations regarding certain silicones like cyclomethicone.

3. Protecting Hair and Nails While Swimming

Question from Listener [30:09]:
“How do I protect my hair and nails while swimming daily?”

• Valerie George [32:37]:
  "Using a leave-in conditioner with oils and silicones can coat the hair fiber and reduce chlorine penetration."

• Perry Romanowski [34:20]:
  "Garnier Fructis's amodimethicone helps reduce frizz and protect hair from chlorine."

Conclusion:
Pre-soaking hair in water and applying a silicone-based leave-in conditioner can offer protection against chlorine. Wearing a swim cap further minimizes water and chlorine exposure.

4. Understanding Purple Shampoo and Hair Toners

Question from Jessica [35:13]:
“How does Violet Number 2 work in hair toners, and why do some shampoos cause staining?”

• Valerie George [37:14]:
  "Violet 2 is negatively charged but can still bind to positively charged sites on damaged hair."

• Perry Romanowski [39:20]:
  "Some of the dye penetrates the hair and can also stain the skin due to its interaction with lipids."

Conclusion:
Purple shampoos use acid dyes like Violet Number 2 to neutralize brassiness. While they can stain the skin due to their chemical properties, consistent use ensures effective toning without significant hair color change.

5. Layering Ascorbic Glucoside Over L-Ascorbic Acid

Question from Electra [42:15]:
“Is it okay to layer an ascorbyl glucoside product over a product with L-ascorbic acid without compromising the integrity of the vitamin C?”

• Valerie George [43:08]:
  "If using stable L-ascorbic acid like CE Ferulic, layering it with ascorbyl glucoside is acceptable."

• Perry Romanowski [44:04]:
  "Allow some time between applications to let the ascorbic acid penetrate."

Conclusion:
Layering stable L-ascorbic acid with ascorbyl glucoside can be done effectively by allowing each product to absorb properly, ensuring maximal antioxidant benefits without pH conflicts.

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Conclusion and Support

Valerie and Perry wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to engage through reviews, social media, and Patreon support. They emphasize their commitment to providing unbiased, scientifically-backed beauty advice without the influence of advertising.

• Valerie George [48:27]:
  "Remember, be brainy about your beauty."

• Perry Romanowski [48:17]:
  "Support us on Patreon to keep the show ad-free and continuing."

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Notable Quotes:

• Valerie George [08:56]:
  "There's only one supplier... they show a lot of efficacy compared to retinol."

• Perry Romanowski [25:17]:
  "It doesn't actually make your hair stronger by the fiber anyway."

• Valerie George [37:14]:
  "Just because hair is negatively charged when it's damaged doesn't mean it's totally negatively charged."

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This episode of The Beauty Brains seamlessly blends scientific analysis with personal stories, offering listeners both informative content and relatable moments. Whether you're navigating the complexities of hair care or seeking clarity on the latest skincare trends, Valerie and Perry provide expert guidance grounded in chemistry and real-world experience.

Transcript

[Valerie George]

Hi, I'm Valerie, and you're listening to the Beauty Brain. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 395. I'm your host, Valerie George, and with me today is Perry Romanowski. Hi, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hello, Valerie. Great to see you.

[Valerie George]

Hi. Awesome to see you. On today's show, we're going to cover a lot of questions, Perry, including what is a good leave in conditioner that only has a little bit of protein? What is special fraction petrolatum?

[Perry Romanowski]

Special.

[Valerie George]

Is wet hair more resistant to chlorine than dry hair? How does violet number two work in hair? And what is a hair toner? Plus, one extra bonus question. Can you layer an ascorbyl glucoside product over a product with just a L, ascorbic acid in it? But first, inane chit chat.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hey, Valerie. You know, last time I did a solo episode.

[Valerie George]

You did, you did. I was very busy. You were getting ready to go to, I think, Bulgaria. After coming back from China, our schedules couldn't align. And so I said, perry, please, please, please. I have this road show I'm doing to Reno. I'll talk about that in a second. Can you please just get a solo episode out there? And you did.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, and I did. And, you know, I answered, like, 10 questions. Cause, you know, there's only me talking. So I could talk. Say more. But then, you know, I had this idea I would just. Instead of reading all the questions, I would make.

[Valerie George]

No, I already know where this is going. I already know. Let me guess. AI voices.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, Right, right, right. And, you know, does anyone want to listen to me drone on for an hour without a little break?

[Valerie George]

I think people who hate AI voices would like to listen to you drone on for an hour. And have you ever thought people might like your voice? I get that all the time. People will say, I love your voice on the podcast. And there's even one hair research researcher, Treffer Evans, in the industry. Sometimes I just put on his YouTube videos, even though I've heard them a million times because I love, you know, the cadence of his British accent. Have you ever thought someone might like your voice?

[Perry Romanowski]

I. Because I don't like my voice that much.

[Valerie George]

So, yeah, I don't like mine either. I totally get it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Strange. Because I like your voice is good, but I. Maybe it's just people just don't like their own voices.

[Valerie George]

They don't.

[Perry Romanowski]

I don't know.

[Valerie George]

I bet you there's a paper on that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I will now based on feedback, you know, and it's only a couple of people because maybe everyone else loved it. But I didn't get anyone saying, oh, I love that. I got. But I got a few people saying, that's terrible. So based on. Based on the feedback and it's really more work to do an AI voice than for me to just read it.

[Valerie George]

Well, third time's the charm because I feel like people have complained in the past. It might be the same couple people. I don't know.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah, probably. But I mean, the bottom line is it doesn't really save me much time. It actually takes longer. So I'm just gonna read them.

[Valerie George]

Why don't you have your wife or you know, maybe Mr. Cosmetic Chemist could read them. But he wouldn't even do that for me. So if he did that for you, I'd be pretty upset.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I mean, I just don't think it. Does it really add that much? Maybe like you said, people just do like our voice.

[Valerie George]

Well, yeah, I think they do. So I mentioned I'm in Reno.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes, you are in Reno. Are you? You know, Reno is a divorce capital. Is something going on?

[Valerie George]

Well, no, it's not. Well, something is going on. The Handcrafted Soap and Cosmetic Guild annual show. Everyone, if you've listened to the show, you guys know I resell ingredients for people to make their own products. And there's an annual conference for this actually where we have a vendor table and we, you know, pedal our wares to people. But it's basically a four day soap making and cosmetic making conference. And Perry, you actually same one we.

[Perry Romanowski]

Did in Canada that one time.

[Valerie George]

Well, that's the Handcrafted Bath and Body Guild, which is the Canadian guild of the same. Same variety. So you came to that show in Canada. That's where the Americans took totally killed karaoke. Although we did a lot of Bryan Adams and we totally killed trivia. Turns out at least Canadian home crafters are not very good at trivia.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, that is selling us short because we are really good.

[Valerie George]

We, we. It also helps that I had Mr. Cosmetic Chemist with me and one of my old chemists from Paul Mitchell was also at the show. She worked the booth with me. It turns out they're really into music and a lot of the trivia questions were music based on. I know nothing about music. So I think they helped us win.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, they probably did. So how was the show? Is it very well attended? Is it like a lot of people want to make their own Stuff?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's a few hundred people. I mean, the audience in the US Is a lot bigger than that. But they move the show from city to city. So it's sometimes the same people. You know, a lot of different people show up because it's geographical. Next year it's going to be in Connecticut. You know, it was in Kansas City a couple times. So they pretty much, yeah, just move it around.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow. It sounds like a fun show. And do they have, like, demonstrations of people making soap and their own stuff?

[Valerie George]

They do, yeah. And every year I'm like, I should totally sign up as an attendee and do like basic soap making classes. Because at the show people ask me questions like, oh, can I use this ingredient in soap? And I'm always like, I don't know, because I don't make soap. Right. I know the chemistry. But, you know, I'm a, you know, I make cosmetics, not soap. And so they're always like, oh, that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Is an interesting thing about the job of a cosmetic chemist. You do tend to specialize in a type of formula that you make. I mean, you learn the chemistry of everything. But making soap is not really something that a lot of cosmetic chemists will do. And it's been always been more of a handcrafter, you know, homemaking kind of a thing than a lot of manufacturers do not make soap.

[Valerie George]

There's a lot of real chemistry in soap as well. I do a lot of saponification and I use a lot of the similar chemistry and hair color. But, you know, I don't do soap making. But yeah, it's very, very specialized. Also something that happened while you were in China and Europe. Perry is pretty. Kitty had babies.

[Perry Romanowski]

What? That's right. You had mentioned she was pregnant. How do you know she had babies?

[Valerie George]

Well, on April 13th, I fed her. She came to the door and she, you know, she likes to stare in. And she gives Mr. Cosmetic Chemists and my other chemist Renzo, dirty looks until they come get me. And then I come out and I feed her. We say hi, we talk. And she did that. And she was very pregnant. She looked grumpy, you know, because it was hot and she was very big. And I came in on April 14 and her bulge was gone and she wouldn't come up to the door. She was waiting for me kind of by the entrance of her hiding spot. And I went up to her and I said, oh, you hungry? And she hissed at me. And I was like, yep, the kittens are here. And I said, don't you hiss at me. And then she meowed and said she was sorry and I fed her and. And I haven't seen the cats yet because they're only a few weeks old, but she's been around with coffee. Who is this other little black cat she's friends with? And we don't have a name for this cat, but her baby from her previous litter, who's now like three times the size of any cat in the neighborhood. He's so huge. They were playing in the parking lot the other day, and then I fed all of them. It was really cute. So I have to get the catch and release traps. I know. I have to.

[Perry Romanowski]

You've got the whole colony going out there.

[Valerie George]

I know, I know.

[Perry Romanowski]

I finally got all of the porch kitties fixed. And so we have. We have like anywhere from 8 to 11 of porch kitties, but they're all fixed. So no more kittens?

[Valerie George]

Well, no more kittens until a new cat comes along.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, none of the porch kitties are going to have kittens anyway.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, that's true. You won't become a grandfather anytime soon.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right.

[Valerie George]

Well, let's head over to beauty news. What did you see, Valerie?

[Perry Romanowski]

I saw this Hollywood reporter article, and it says the. The title was just the best new skincare ingredients. And I'm like, I'd like to keep up with what's new. And so I'm looking through this and now, okay, here's what they say is new, which does. Does this sound new to you? Retinol alternatives, which is bakuchiol. Yeah, they say plant. Yeah, plant derived offers the benefits of retinol, but no irritation or something like that. I'm. Are you sold on bakuchiol?

[Valerie George]

Well, okay, so there's a couple places you can get it, and there's only one supplier. They patented this extraction technique that allows them to sell a really purified molecule isolate from bakuchiol. It's not the same as getting a bakuchiol plant extract or bakuchiol oil from other sources. And so they actually have. It's their own data. So again, you have to use a lot of caution. But at just half a percent, I think it is. They show a lot of efficacy compared to retinol in terms of same efficacy, but less irritation. So that's really what their data is driven around. And I actually had a project where somebody wanted to use more than half a percent of this material. And I reached out to the manufacturer because I, you know, all their studies were just done at half. And I said, hey, you don't Recommended it more than half. Would anything happen? And they were like, nothing would happen, but it would be a waste, basically, so don't do it. And I thought that was interesting because people usually want to sell more of a material, and they were like, you don't need it. So.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right.

[Valerie George]

That's what our studies.

[Perry Romanowski]

And yeah, maybe it's more difficult for them to produce it because it's got to be a limited supply. Right.

[Valerie George]

It's very expensive.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. And. Well, there is. So that was one of them. So the next one was malassezin, which is a yeast.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, Malassezia is a predominant yeast flora on your scalp.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, they say that this ingredient is been shown promise for brightening skin, reducing hyperpigmentation. Okay. I mean, the problem with both of these is, you're right, maybe they can have some special bakuchiol extraction. But a lot of stuff you buy will just be somebody took bakuchiol, plant, macerated it up and diluted it with propylene glycol or glycerin and call it bakuchiol. And it's the same name on the label. So as a consumer, you're not gonna know.

[Valerie George]

And, you know, I just don't like the term shown promise.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right.

[Valerie George]

Shown promise, because promise is a future. Right? Like a promissory note. I promise I'm gonna pay you back. You haven't paid the person back yet. Right, so.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

So I don't know. Shown promise is like a little future hope. And I guess that's what skincare is all about, is future hope.

[Perry Romanowski]

I guess so. So speaking of shown promise, and there's three more of these. There's great growth factors, they say, enhance growth factors to enhance collagen production, improve elasticity. I mean, growth factors have been around for a long time.

[Valerie George]

They're really employed, and I would say mostly studied in pharmaceutical applications. And so to me, that says, okay, if the pharmaceutical industry is interested in growth factors, there's probably something there. But again, I think the challenges in.

[Perry Romanowski]

A topical skincare product, Right, probably if. If there was something there, like, amazing, we would have got it by now. Sturgeon DNA extract. Yeah, this I think I listened to. I listened to Chemist Confessions, those two, their podcasts, and they did a whole show on. I guess this is, what, fish sperm or something?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, salmon sperm is another one. People are really interested. It's funny, people don't want animal extracts until it promises something, right? Like a youthful appearance. And they're like, I'm cool with DNA from salmon sperm on my skin.

[Perry Romanowski]

That seems weird. I, I saw, I was. When I was in Bulgaria, somebody did a talk and they mentioned snail slime as a big trend in Korea.

[Valerie George]

I think it's still predominant, but the. Yeah, I think it's more standard. I don't think it's a trend. It's just like something they use.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right. But I don't think that would fly in the US because, you know, we try to avoid all these animal products.

[Valerie George]

Right, right. And I think, you know, I found a new facialist in Dallas. She's really awesome and she sells a lot of lines from Korea and you know, they're really big into the salmon sperm and fish DNA. Right now. It's not something you would find, I think, in an American based or Canada based or even EU based beauty line.

[Perry Romanowski]

But, you know, a lot of trends are started in Korea and brought.

[Valerie George]

They have great skin there.

[Perry Romanowski]

I mean, that whole Gangnam Style.

[Valerie George]

I love that song. And I'm not going to apologize for it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Do not apologize. And the final one, they say it in here is Coenzyme Q10. We which has been around forever. How is this new?

[Valerie George]

Oh my gosh. You know, my mentor who passed away a few years ago, Dr. Ron DeSalvo, he actually took oral COQ10, which I think is the best way to take it because he was elderly, we'll just say that, over 80. And he said it really helped him, you know, cognitively and he felt very sharp topically. I don't know if there's a whole lot of data with. I think it can be challenging to use.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I mean, it's been around a long time and it's hard to get it to penetrate deep enough to have a big impact. So there you go. All right, that's what I saw. But you know what else? I stumbled on another article from Slate. I'm just going through my feeds and I seen Slate and I'm like, wait, Valerie George from the Beauty Brains.

[Valerie George]

That's me.

[Perry Romanowski]

Peptide skin care, moisturizing serum research. And yeah, you were quoted in this Slate article.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it was a really great interview opportunity because, you know, the journalist who contacted me, you know, didn't know a lot about peptides to begin with. So we did a lot of talking and educating her on, you know, peptide basics. And it was interesting because one of the things that she mentioned was that dermatologists say, oh, beware of brands who hardly use peptides at tiny percentages. They're not going to offer any value. And the interesting part for me was, well, it's interesting a dermatologist would say that because they know nothing about cosmetic formulation, peptides are only recommended at very tiny levels. So.1%, 0.05% even sometimes 0.2. But generally you, you want them at very tiny levels because they are biologically active molecules and that's what all the studies are done at. You would never see a peptide used like the active peptide content at 1, 2 or 3%. I mean, that's crazy. If, you know, maybe a raw material that contains a peptide, you would use it. But the active peptide level is always very, very tiny. So I just said, well, that's really terrible advice from the dermatologist because from a formulation perspective, it just, it doesn't work that way.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, dermatologists are expert at handling diseased skin, not as expert as handling like aging and you know, day to day skin.

[Valerie George]

So yeah, yeah, I was a little disappointed that they quoted the dermatologist so much. You know, not going to lie. But.

[Perry Romanowski]

When you do an interview like that, how long are you speaking with the reporter?

[Valerie George]

This one, I think was an hour.

[Perry Romanowski]

And you had like one line. Just a couple of.

[Valerie George]

A couple of lines, yeah. But no, it was, it was great. And I think, you know, the thing that blew the journalist's mind was the, you know, most of the data comes. There is a lot of data on like for example, copper tripeptide 1, which is C U G H K. That actually comes from the pharmaceutical industry. Tons and tons of literature on that one. So that's one I really believe in. But the other peptides, I mean, peptides again are biologically active molecules, but the studies come from suppliers. So again you just have to take into consideration, like who's giving me this information that it works. And that's the tough part. And Skincare is about hope. You have to hope that using it pays off. And you're not going to know because you're not going to remember, use that product 20 years from now.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. You're also going to remember like what your skin looked like six weeks ago.

[Valerie George]

You know, I think my skin looks the same as when I was younger than I see photos. And I'm like, it definitely does.

[Perry Romanowski]

Not definitely. Hey, Valerie, you know, when I was in Bulgaria, there's a guy there from Australia.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

Which is interesting. There's. His name is Robert. Robert from Lubrizol.

[Valerie George]

I met him when I was in New Zealand one time. Small world.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right, that's right. Well, anyway, so I was talking to him and he tells me about this story that's been, was Going around in Australia about this dog. This couple went on vacation and they. There's this island called Kangaroo Island.

[Valerie George]

Right, okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

And they brought their dog, their little dachshund dog.

[Valerie George]

Dachshund, you mean.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right, Dachshund. Dachshund. You know, I've always called a dachshund, but you're right. Dachshund.

[Valerie George]

Maybe it could be dachshund depending on the geography.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I don't know. That's. I probably have said it wrong all my life. Anyway, so the little dachshund miniature, they lost their dog. They looked for the dog for four days until they finally had to leave. And they abandoned the dog on Kangaroo Island.

[Valerie George]

Probably presuming it dead from the kangaroos.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Couldn't find it. So then on Kangaroo island, they have all these cameras set up just to kind of monitor it. And they were seeing this little dog every so often, get caught on camera. And. And then. So they've been looking for this dog. So somehow the dog befriended the kangaroos and was able to survive on this island for how long? And they just found him 529 days later.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my goodness.

[Perry Romanowski]

So this little dog. But the only reason I bring the story up is because the dog's name was Valerie.

[Valerie George]

That's an unusual name for a dog. I'm not going to lie.

[Perry Romanowski]

Valerie, so. But everything worked out for you.

[Valerie George]

Was rescued.

[Perry Romanowski]

I know. Can you believe it? That the little miniature dachshund lived. Named Valerie, lived on the island with kangaroos for over a year and a half.

[Valerie George]

Well, Valerie, the name does mean strong. At least when you look it up on Google and baby name books.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, that's a fun story.

[Valerie George]

So, yeah, we do have some listener feedback theory before we head on to our questions. Our first one, we actually have two listener feedbacks, and the first one comes to us from a patron, Zach. Zach said if Perry watched lab muffins video on Sprance on screens, he wouldn't have gotten burnt by shady UV protection. Have you seen this video?

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, I did watch the video. It was actually a pretty good video. She goes through the whole. I mean, her. Her sort of bugaboo. Is that the spray on sunscreens do not deliver enough to your skin to actually give you adequate protection. So the whole video was her just measuring how much sunscreen you actually get delivered from a spray. And you know, based on her video and you know, based on what I know, too. She's. She's probably right. You don't get the suggested amount.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, spray ons are the worst kind of sunscreen, I think, because people under apply them. It's not rubbed out. You don't get that. You get a great droplet size. But yeah, not necessarily, you know, the greatest protection. But on the contrary, there are lots of traditional cream sunscreens that also don't give you the protection, so.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. And I will say in the defense of the spray on stuff, it's easier to apply and it feels better.

[Valerie George]

Well, and at least you're actually putting it on now if you only reapplied it every two hours.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, yeah, yeah. So no. Yes, I. And don't spray it right in your face like I do.

[Valerie George]

Do not. Do not.

[Perry Romanowski]

That. But. But yeah, that's. It's a good video. I'll put a link in the show. It's fun. And she's. She always does some interesting experiments. She did another one with the. Have you seen that? The hot, hot protector things on the receipt paper.

[Valerie George]

Oh, don't even get me started about that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, we'll save it for another time. What was the other feedback we had? This one was from Darling said, hey, I just caught up on an old episode from last August and Valerie had just hurt her ankle and she talked about how clumsy she was.

[Valerie George]

And then that was when I fell down the steps in Albuquerque and I tore ligaments in my ankle and knee and hurt my hip and had to do physical therapy for four months. And I actually just went back to the coffee shop. Mr. Cosmetic Chemist has been there before, but I wanted to show him exactly how I fell down the steps. So we went back on our way.

[Perry Romanowski]

To Reno and I showed him revisited. All right, well then Darling adds that. Then I put on the recent episode and Valerie just fell off a ladder. Oh, yeah, girl, feel better. And you need to have more cushions and bumpers in your life.

[Valerie George]

Well, Darling missed the episode where I gave myself the black eye in January.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's right. That's right. You are a walking rat.

[Valerie George]

Did I ever tell you what someone wrote to me on Instagram because I just put I got the black eye.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure, sure.

[Valerie George]

They wrote to me. Let me guess. You pulled on something that was attached to something else and it came out unexpectedly from the thing it was attached to and you whacked yourself in the eye and I was like, how did they know? That's literally exactly what happened.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow. There you go. Sure. Well, we can officially be called the klutziest beauty podcast in the industry.

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh. Well, let's head over to beauty questions.

[Perry Romanowski]

Our first question comes to us from Carrie read by Real Voice Perry. Hi beauty Brains. I listened to the last podcast and it was about protein overload. Valerie, can you tell me a really good leave in moisturizer conditioner with a little bit of protein? My hair is fine, curly colored blonde. So I do need a little strength with a little moisture for my fine curly hair. Thanks, Carrie.

[Valerie George]

Well, the interesting thing is unless you're buying a strengthening protein based product, most products only have a little bit of protein in them because you don't need a lot for that film to develop on the hair. And so I think any leave in conditioner probably has just a bit, little, little bit of protein. Now I would probably look for different protein types because if you see like hydrolyzed keratin, hydrolyzed wheat protein, those are really stiff protein films.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

And so even if there were a little, you probably might notice it a little bit more. And so I would steer clear of those. But if you saw hydrolyzed soy protein, hydrolyzed pea protein, those form like more flexible films and so those might be better for you. Now I will say I actually don't think you need strength from protein. So I would even actually look for a leave in moisturizing conditioner without protein at all. Because just by leaving a leave in conditioner on your hair, you're going to leave a coating on the hair that's lubricating the hair fiber and that's going to help reduce breakage. So it's not that it's giving you strength perfect per se, but it's just helping protect your hair without leaving any kind of rigid film on it. So I would say that would be the best option.

[Perry Romanowski]

That really is how those strengthening claims are made. It's not really strengthening your hair, it's just making it less prone to breaking when you're combing your hair or something like that. If you took a, we have this thing called a diastron where you take a fiber and you stretch it and you can measure the force it takes to snap it. When a product says, oh, I can make your hair 10 times stronger when they do that test, it does not make it 10 times stronger in that way. What it does is it makes it, when you're combing your hair, you just get ten times less breakage.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

It doesn't actually make your hair stronger by the fiber anyway.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. So I would say most products you're going to be fine, avoid wheat protein, avoid hydrolyzed keratin, and honestly just use like a really great leave in conditioner even without protein And I think you'll find that you'll have less breakage.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

All right, our next question comes to us from a patron. Katie. Hi. Beauty brains. Hope all is well. I just ordered some Theraplex barrier balm, and I was completely blown away. Hopefully it was good, because I don't think she said if it was good or bad. What is special fraction petrolatum and why does it feel so amazing? Oh, so it's a good blown away.

[Perry Romanowski]

It is good, yeah.

[Valerie George]

Is this exclusive to Theraplex's formulations? Thanks, Katie.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, Kati, I went to the Theraplex website and I looked at it. You know, this product contains only three ingredients.

[Valerie George]

Whoa. Simple. Sometimes simple is the best.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right? You know what the three are?

[Valerie George]

Well, I didn't look at the link, so. Okay, so special fraction petrolatum's the first one.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's the first one, yes.

[Valerie George]

Shea butter is the second.

[Perry Romanowski]

That is not.

[Valerie George]

Okay. Well, it's actually very hard to combine shea butter and petrolata, but one ingredient supplier, Sonneborn, was able to do it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

Okay, so it's a fragrance.

[Perry Romanowski]

No. All right, I'll just tell you.

[Valerie George]

Tell me.

[Perry Romanowski]

Cyclomethicone and microcrystalline wax.

[Valerie George]

Okay, so the cyclomethicone helps the spreadability. Microcrystalline wax helps melting point and giving it structure.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure, sure. Yeah. So it's an interesting barrier bomb. It's certainly gonna barrier because those are, you know, those. That's about as close as you're gonna get. That cyclomethicone sort of will evaporate off over time, but those other twos are gonna stay there.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Now, I hate to be, you know, a Debbie Downer about the cyclomethicone. Hopefully someone from Theraplex is listening. Cyclomethicone is a mixture of D4 and D5, which are two volatile silicones that are regulated in the state of California currently. And they're not permitted in Europe as of. Well, a portion of it, D5, is not allowed as of 2027, but currently, you're not allowed to use D4 in products in Europe. So Theraplex will have to reformulate this. Now, the good news is there's things they could reformulate it with, but hopefully they're listening so they can maintain compliance.

[Perry Romanowski]

Clients, when does the California rules kick in? Or is that.

[Valerie George]

I think, January 1, 2026, I believe, for the cyclomethicone, if it's not already happening, because there's two regulations, and one of them's more hair colorants. And I More paid attention to the hair colorants ones. But I think it's 20, 26.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, Katie, if you, if you like it, you might want to stock up. Right?

[Valerie George]

Okay. But what about special fraction petrolatum? Perry?

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, so what does this mean? So special fraction. Now, it sounds impressive, it's special, but essentially it's just a more refined version of standard petrolatum. And of course, petrolatum has been used in the cosmetic industry safely and effective for a long time. And you have to. You can't just use any old petrolatum in the cosmetics. You have to use especially processed petrolatum.

[Valerie George]

So everybody does.

[Perry Romanowski]

Everybody uses special fraction petrolatum. Now, you know, it's the special part. It's just like a filtered fraction. Maybe it improves the aesthetics or spreadability, but I don't think, in fact, I don't think they've labeled it correctly. You're not supposed to put special fraction petrolatum on there. You're just supposed to use the word petrolatum. So they kind of aren't labeling it correctly, even though maybe their supplier calls it that.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Or maybe their chemist explained it to them that way. Because usually when you use a petrolatum in personal care, you use what's called a United States pharmacopoeia grade. USP is what it's called. And this is the special fraction which makes sure it doesn't have any impurities, it's super clean, safe for use, etc, etc. So I have a feeling it was probably explained to them that way.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, and you know, it. Obviously it makes the consumer think there's something special about it because, well, you asked about it, so. But it's a good, well formulated product and you know, if you like it, keep using it. There are those concerns about environmental concerns. That's why the cyclomethicone has been being removed from things. And so this formula might not be around like this in the future. So you might want to stock up.

[Valerie George]

Well, I think our next question is an audio question.

[Perry Romanowski]

Here it is. Let me go to the tape.

[C]

Hey, beauty brains, I'm another one who found you through the New York Times. And I'm so happy I did. Thank you so much for. I've just been looking for something like this forever. Like, what is the real science with all this stuff? Because there's so much hype. Anyway, my questions all center around help. I'm submerged in water and how do I protect my hair and nails? So I swim every day. And I was told by my stylist to, before I get in the pool, soak my hair in regular water, put a leave in conditioner in there, I use Garnier Fructis and then put my swim cap on. And her thinking is that if the hair is full of quote, regular water, then it can't absorb the chlorinated water. So that would limit damage. I'd love to know if there's any reasoning behind that. I mean, if it's really true and if so, if the leave in conditioner helps or just doesn't do anything. I mean, water certainly does get in under the swim cap. Okay, thanks again. Bye bye.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, Valerie, Chlorinated water, soaking it up. You know, this whole thing sounds a little, I don't know, it sounds a little far fetched to me. But you know, also there seems to be, I mean, I can see some scientific logic to it. First of all, nobody's done this test, right?

[Valerie George]

No, there's no studies on wet hair versus dry hair plunging in a pool.

[Perry Romanowski]

So now we're just kind of spitballing and you know, based on what our experiences are and stuff. And actually I did a study on chlorinated water. We had a 55 gallon tank drum that we filled with water and did the right amount of chlorine because I was working on the VO5 hot oil product and we wanted to make a chlorine protective claim for that. And so, you know, we had to make a pool and you soak the tresses in there and you measure something that you measure. And we did find that if you coated your hair with Van Vo 5 hot oil before you got into the pool, you could protect it to some degree.

[Valerie George]

Well, this, this advice from her stylist makes total sense. Not because of, you know, any magical science. You're right. When you put on a leave on conditioner, you might have some emollients in there, like oils, you might have silicones in there and those are going to actually coat the hair fiber.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And reduce water penetration. And ideally you would be getting your hair soaking wet with non chlorinated water beforehand. So don't dip in the pool and then put, you know, the conditioner on. But as we mentioned, there aren't really studies on wet hair versus dry hair. But just in going into the science in general, if you have really damaged hair, chlorine is going to suck into your hair like crazy. And so if you lighten your hair color your hair, go out in the sun, this is definitely like a must do because the chlorine will go in if your hair is virgin, meaning you don't chemically treat it, get it colored, permed, you know, you don't spend a lot of time in the sun, etc.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

Your hair is probably going to be fine, but it certainly can't harm to put on this leave in conditioner beforehand. The only thing I would say is, yeah, just make sure you're using a swim cap because eventually the water from the pool will remove the conditioner from your hair and all you're doing is gunking up the pool filter with emollients.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And your skin oils and stuff.

[Perry Romanowski]

The swim cap will protect your hair from the water to some extent. It's not going to completely protect it, but you know, for the most part it's going to do better than if you weren't wearing one.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Yeah. So I guess bottom line, just make sure the leave in conditioner you're using has oils and has emollients and is probably kind of a little, we'll say heavier or greasier.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Now her question about the Garnier fructose leave in. Is that a good one? You know, yeah. Garnier puts together good products. I'd say so.

[Valerie George]

Garnier makes great products. I would have to say from a mass market perspective, this is probably one of my, my favorite brands. The reason I think this could be a good option is it uses amodimethicone, which is a positively charged silicone sticks to the hair, helps reduce frizz. That's how they get their frizz reduction claim. But I think this would be really good to protect those negatively charged areas on your hair that may be more susceptible to chlorine uptake in the hair. It doesn't really have a whole lot of oil. Yeah, you know, it lists Argan oil on there, but is it really in there? You know, I'm sure technically it is, you know, but the ammo dimethicone is a good choice for it and it's affordable. So you don't want to put an expensive leave in on your hair just, just so you can go swimming. So I think it could be a good option.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, Right. All right, looks like we have a one from Jessica. Oh, another one asking just about you and hello. Jessica says hello. I recently watched Valerie's unavailing Hair care chemistry on YouTube. Wait, you're going on YouTube without me?

[Valerie George]

Oh, did I do that? It must have been an interview or something. I probably did do it, but I don't remember I mentioned you. I'm sure I did.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, that's good. All right, so she says, I watched Valerie's unveiling hair chemistry on YouTube and the distinction between direct dyes and oxidative dyes were just discussed. I understand that direct dyes interact with the hair fiber surface, and since some are cationic, the ionic bonding makes sense to me. However, I'm starting to understand how purple shampoo, which contains external D and C Violet 2, deposits or interacts on the hair. Given that it's an anionic dye, wouldn't the anionic hair surface repel it? And does deposition occur through coacervation or another mechanism in play? And then says, additionally, some users find these shampoos too strong, leading to staining. This raises the question, what is staining? Considering the dye isn't penetrating the hair or chemically reacting with it. I also heard Valerie mention that toners often contain direct dyes, which made me wonder, what exactly defines a toner? Valerie, could you briefly clarify the difference between oxidative hair dyes and hair toners? Thank you, Jessica.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, great questions. So Violet 2 is a purple dye, hence the name violet, hence the word violet in its name. And it does have a negative charge. Hair is negatively charged when it's damaged, and you're in a specific PH range. And so we have to remember with hair, opposites attract, right? So if you have a positive charge and a negative charge, they're going to be attracted to each other. But if you have two negative charges, they're not going to be attracted to each other.

[Perry Romanowski]

I just want to point out about that, though. I mean, it's sort of a simple way to say, oh yeah, where it's damaged, it's positively charged and that sort. It's true. But hair is made up of amino acids, and some parts have negative charges where it's damaged. But there are also free positive charges there, too. So whether your molecule has a charge one way or another, there is still mechanisms depending on the ph and the. Well, the isoelectric point, really, there is just a mechanism by which it will stick to the hair, too.

[Valerie George]

Just because hair is negatively charged when it's damaged doesn't mean it's totally negatively charged. You're still going to have positive sites on the hair, especially around the ph, that most products are used. You're going to have a mixture of both. At a higher ph, you're going to have predominant negative charges. At a lower phase ph, you'll have predominant positive charges. And by lower ph, I mean like a ph of 2. Okay. Which most products are not that. So it's not that Violet 2 is negatively charged. And it absolutely can't. There are some positively charged sites it's going to stick to. Additionally, even though it is negatively charged and it's a really big purple molecule, some of it does penetrate the hair. Because when you're shampooing your hair or even just your hair is wet, it swells. And so it's not going to totally penetrate, but it might get wedged in to a little space. You don't get a lot of purple toning with this color. And the reason is just those reasons we just mentioned. So you have to use the product time over time, over time again because of the low propensity for it to stick to the hair or penetrate to the hair. So hopefully that explains how violet number two works. People do complain that they are staining, but they actually stain your skin, not your hair, because your skin is actually more positively charged than your hair is. And so the dye wants to stick to your skin more than it does your hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And I think some of the lipids in your natural moisturizing factor and stuff, the. That that part of the molecule, the hydrocarbon part, is going to essentially associate with it. And that helps to stick it there too.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. So whenever I do, you know, like little mini hair color seminars, I always talk about how these dyes, which are external dnc Violet number two is actually an acid dye. It's acid nomenclature is acid violet 43. These are just staining. And so that's just something, you know, you have to look out for now in terms of toners. So a toner is chemistry agnostic. So it doesn't really matter what you put in it because it's really about the intended purpose of the product, not the chemistry it's made of. A toner is a product that's like stained glass for your hair, so it doesn't change your existing hair color. You don't have to do a chemical reaction necessarily to get a product to work. It's really about taking a light color and applying it over your natural color to modify it. So in the case if you have blonde hair and you don't want it to be brassy and warm, you would tone it with a purple or a violet, let's say, because violet and yellow cancel each other out. If your hair were more orange, its opposite color is blue. And so your toner would be more blue based and you would cancel it out. Or if you want your hair to be warmer, you would apply a red, yellow or orange toner over it if, you know, warm tones were your thing. So.

[Perry Romanowski]

And Use a hairdryer, too.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh, that's terrible.

[Perry Romanowski]

I do want to point out about toner. We're not talking about the toner that you use on your face or in.

[Valerie George]

A printer ink cartridge or in a printer. No, we're talking about hair color toner.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right. That it is kind of confusing that they would use the same word for two different personal care products.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I guess that is confusing. Yeah, very true. Yeah. So sometimes a toner can contain oxidative hair dyes, but I think you would only find that maybe in, like, a professional product. Sometimes, you know, a consumer product, depending on what it is, is. And so then you would find oxidative dyes in that product, and it would require use of a developer. But many toners, even in the salon professional world, only contain direct dyes because you just want to stain the hair again, like stained glass. You don't need intensive or damage damaging chemistry to do that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay, well, I'll put a link to your little YouTube video interview.

[Valerie George]

All right.

[Perry Romanowski]

An hour long. What?

[Valerie George]

Wow. Oh, gosh, I sure can talk a lot. The microphone is very intoxicating.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, well, we have time for one more from Electra.

[Valerie George]

Electra says hello. Huge fan of the pod. I have a question about integrity, stability, sustained efficacy of L ascorbic acid and, say, the Timeless or the CE ferulic acid product by Skinceuticals. The new Ordinary multi antioxidant radiance serum has 1% ascorbyl glucoside in it. I called into the Ordinary and they said it would be fine to layer on top, but most things I've read online said you shouldn't layer different vitamin Cs. I love the antioxidant this product provides, but maintaining the integrity of my L ascorbic acid is paramount. Would this be okay? To apply the L ascorbic acid first, let it dry down, and then apply the ordinary products afterwards so as not to mess up the ph of the L ascorbic acid. Thank you for making science education free to the public. An engineering and biotechnology student.

[Perry Romanowski]

Ah, well, thanks for the question, Elektra. Well, L ascorbic acid is, of course, notoriously unstable, especially when it's in water and high PH products. So a lot of stuff you buy that's already on the shelves is probably degraded, so you're not going to get the effects that you would if you made it fresh.

[Valerie George]

Well, let's pretend. The CE ferulic product by Skinceuticals, which is a significant sum of money per Ounce does not turn a color. And I feel like, you know, granted they patented the technology and patents don't do anything, but it is a l' Oreal l' Oreal owned brand now. And so I feel like if they say the ascorbic acid is stable, they would have some burden of proof for that.

[Perry Romanowski]

You could have more faith in what they're getting versus some random L ascorbic acid product on the market.

[Valerie George]

So let's pretend, let's pretend it's stable. And Electra is getting the full 15% advertised.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. It is supposedly formulated at a low Ph 3.2 that's going to keep it stable as long as possible. The Ordinary's Multi Antioxidant Radiance serum uses ascorbyl glucoside and other antioxidants and it's formulated supposedly at a more skin friendly ph of 5 to 6. So now you're. I guess those things would conflict the phs. Although when you put these things on your skin, the environmental PH that the product is at changes right there. It's. So it's not the same PH as was it was in the product.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. And your skin does normalize its PH back over time. So there's actually a lot of data in peer reviewed literature studies. Mostly I've looked at it with soap application because people say, wow, SOAP really destroys the ph natural PH of your skin. Initially it does, but your skin recovers in just a couple hours to its natural ph. Like it starts producing items to help it. To help it recover.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, exactly.

[Valerie George]

So I would say the most important part is to get the ascorbic acid to the skin and to give it some time to penetrate. If you were concerned about any buffering with the second PH product because it would take your skin a little bit to recover. So just me personally, if I were worried, I would probably let it dry down a little bit maybe and then.

[Perry Romanowski]

I would have minutes or whatever and.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, but you still have the ascorbic acid on your skin, so some of it will get absorbed, some of it might get converted to ascorbate type, you know, if this, you know, PH on your skin changes it. But eventually that'll get absorbed and then it'll be enzymatically converted to free ascorbic acid anyway. So I don't know. I think tomato, tomato. But given the price point of the CE ferulic, I would just wait. What's the harm?

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Yeah. It's not going to be some huge extra benefit by layering them that you would notice anyway.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. So, yeah, I would just wait.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of notice, do you notice the sounds?

[Valerie George]

It's not an ad plan because we are an ad frank free podcast and we do this for fun, but it is the music telling us it's time to go. Thanks for listening.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hey, if you get a chance, can you head on over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave us a review or a comment. We do read those comments too. That's how I knew that everybody just hated the AI voices last time.

[Valerie George]

Thank you everybody.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's gonna help other people find the show and ensure we do have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[Valerie George]

Speaking of questions, we love audio questions. If you have a question and you want to get your real authentic voice on the show, just record one on your smartphone. Very easy to do. Every smartphone has a recording app. You could also use your computer, email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com or we even have a form in the show. Notes of this episode you can use to submit the audio question.

[Perry Romanowski]

And the Beauty Brains are on Patreon. You might have noticed we do not have advertising because we feel if we advertise something, then we kind of is endorsing it. So we don't want to do that. We want just want to give our honest opinions about everything. And to do that, we don't take advertising, but it does cost money to do the show. And so to do that we rely on support from Patreon. And so if you like what we do and you want us to keep doing it, go to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. You also get a transcript of the show and your questions are answered in a more prompt manner.

[Valerie George]

Also, follow us on our various social media accounts, which in the light of our recent travels, have probably gone dormant. On Instagram, we're at the BeautyBrains 2018 on X, we're at the Beauty Brains on blue sky recipe. Beautybrains. We have a Facebook page and a TikTok.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, we have all of that stuff. And we also, you know, take donations to support our cat habit.

[Valerie George]

I know, I'm. I'm now on auto subscribe with the Fancy Feast for. For pretty kitty. But anyway, thanks again for listening everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks everyone. Kittens.