Episode 396 - Toxic beauty, hair growth and lightweight sunscreens

Summary

Episode Summary: The Beauty Brains - Episode 396 Release Date: May 16, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 396 of The Beauty Brains, hosts Perry Romanowski and Valerie George delve into pressing topics surrounding toxic beauty products, innovative hair growth treatments, and the development of lightweight sunscreens. The episode is a blend of insightful discussions, expert opinions, and listener interactions, all aimed at demystifying the complexities of the beauty and cosmetic industry.

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Personal Chatter

The episode kicks off with Perry and Valerie sharing personal anecdotes, setting a relatable tone for the listeners. Perry discusses his impressive running streak of over 6,000 consecutive days (approximately 17 years), highlighting his dedication and the recent challenge posed by a potential knee injury (04:03). Valerie reflects on her recent trip to a trade show in Reno, Nevada, offering insights into the local coffee scene and contrasting service experiences compared to Las Vegas (01:23).

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Beauty News: Debunking Toxicity Myths

Formaldehyde in Cosmetics

A significant portion of the episode addresses recent media articles claiming that beauty products contain harmful levels of formaldehyde, sparking unnecessary consumer fear.

• NPR's Misleading Claims: Perry voices his frustration with an NPR article suggesting that formaldehyde in beauty products poses significant health risks. He emphasizes that the concentrations used are minimal and safe, stating, “Just telling people, oh, there's a carcinogen in your product... doesn’t really help them” (07:59).

• HuffPost’s Alarmism: Valerie counters similar claims from HuffPost, explaining that formaldehyde-releasing preservatives are used in minuscule amounts that are unlikely to harm consumers. She highlights that natural sources like bananas contain substantially more formaldehyde than these preservatives (09:18). Valerie adds, “The reality is it's very low... a banana has about 16 times the amount of formaldehyde in it than the preservatives release into a product” (09:39).

• Good Housekeeping’s Reliable Testing: Transitioning to a more positive note, Perry praises Good Housekeeping for their genuine product testing, distinguishing their reviews from other publications that may be influenced by pay-for-play tactics. He notes, “they actually have a laboratory and they have chemists who will actually evaluate products” (12:03).

Media Sensationalism

Both hosts express concern over the media's tendency to sensationalize beauty product safety, prioritizing clickbait over factual accuracy. Valerie points out the inconsistency in regulations, such as the EU banning certain forms of formaldehyde while still permitting formaldehyde-releasing preservatives, further complicating consumer understanding (10:04).

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Listener Questions and Expert Advice

1. Hair Loss Product: Calecim

Listener: Monica, a hairstylist, inquires about the efficacy of Calecim, a $360 hair loss treatment.

• Valerie’s Skepticism: Valerie categorizes Calecim as a gimmick, noting the high cost and lack of FDA approval. She criticizes the absence of proven active drugs in the formulation and doubts its long-term effectiveness (19:09).

• Perry’s Perspective: Agreeing with Valerie, Perry questions the practicality of seeing results in six weeks, considering the natural hair growth cycle. He adds, “how much would your hair even grow in six weeks?” (22:03).

• Conclusion: Both conclude that Calecim is unlikely to deliver the promised results and recommend consulting a medical professional for hair loss concerns, highlighting minoxidil as one of the few proven topical treatments (25:10).

2. Lightweight Sunscreens: Banana Boat's Light as Air

Listener: Xena seeks insights into Banana Boat's "Light as Air" sunscreen, praising its non-greasy finish.

• Ingredient Analysis: Perry breaks down the sunscreen’s ingredients—Avobenzone, Homosalate, Octisalate, and Octocrylene—as standard organic chemical sunscreens. Valerie explains how supportive agents like diasopropyl adipate and silica contribute to the lightweight feel by counteracting the inherent greasiness of sunscreen filters (25:43; 26:15).

• Evaluation: The hosts agree that Banana Boat’s formulation is effective in providing a less oily finish without compromising on sunscreen efficacy, commending Edgewell's (the parent company) expertise (28:10).

3. Toxicity Claims and Environmental Toxins

Listener: Ramyana questions the validity of claims linking cosmetic toxins to fertility issues, referencing a YouTube video by Dr. Yvonne Burkhart.

• Hosts’ Response: Perry and Valerie dismiss the video's claims as sensational and lacking scientific backing. They emphasize the importance of dose-dependent toxicity and criticize the video for spreading misinformation without access to proprietary product formulations (29:30).

• Critical Analysis: Valerie highlights the ethical breach in Dr. Burkhart’s assertions, pointing out that even experts can disseminate unverified information for personal or financial gain (31:30).

4. Deciem Company and NIOD Legitimacy

Listener: Sammy expresses concerns about Deciem’s NIOD products, citing AI-generated product photos and a seemingly singular chief scientific officer.

• Brand Assessment: Valerie and Perry discuss Deciem's journey from a startup to being acquired by Estee Lauder, reinforcing the brand's credibility and commitment to safety. They address the use of AI in marketing as a minor issue compared to the robust backing of a major corporation (34:07; 36:04).

• Final Thoughts: The hosts reassure listeners of NIOD’s legitimacy, attributing its success and reliability to Estee Lauder’s extensive research and development resources (38:45).

5. Conditioner Efficacy on Porous Hair

Listener: Sophia seeks advice on the longevity of conditioners on processed, porous hair, and effective treatments for improving hair strength.

• Conditioner Duration: Valerie explains that most conditioners provide benefits for about one wash, with specific ingredients like Amodimethicone offering longer-lasting effects due to their substantive nature (40:46).

• Improving Hair Strength: The discussion moves to the limitations of topical treatments in restoring hair to its virgin state. Perry uses an analogy comparing damaged hair to a worn rope, emphasizing that while conditioners can improve manageability, they cannot fully reverse structural damage (44:11).

• Recommendations: Valerie suggests products designed to remove hard water minerals, such as Malibu C and Wella’s detox lines, and mentions the potential benefits of installing a home water softening system for persistent issues (47:42).

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Conclusion and Sign-Off

Perry and Valerie wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to engage through reviews and social media, promoting their Patreon for additional support. They maintain a light-hearted atmosphere, hinting at a ukulele duet to close the show, underscoring the hosts’ personable and approachable nature.

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Notable Quotes

• Perry on Formaldehyde Concerns: “Just telling people, oh, there’s a carcinogen in your product... doesn’t really help them” (07:59)

• Valerie on Media Sensationalism: “The reality is it’s very low... a banana has about 16 times the amount of formaldehyde in it than the preservatives release into a product” (09:39)

• Valerie on Conditioner Efficacy: “Conditioners work by creating this outer layer on the hair fiber that the consumer feels and they equate that feeling with hair health” (41:58)

• Perry’s Running Dedication: “I have not missed a day in over 6,000 days in a row” (04:03)

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Final Thoughts

Episode 396 of The Beauty Brains serves as an invaluable resource for consumers navigating the often-misleading landscape of beauty product safety and efficacy. With their scientific expertise and candid discussions, Perry and Valerie empower listeners to make informed decisions, cutting through the noise of sensationalist media and dubious product claims.

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Listen and Engage

To join Perry and Valerie in their quest for beauty knowledge:

• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts.
• Follow on Spotify, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.
• Support via Patreon for exclusive perks.

Remember, The Beauty Brains are here to help you be brainy about your beauty.

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Timestamps

• 00:00 - Episode Introduction
• 04:03 - Perry’s Running Streak and Injury
• 07:59 - Discussion on Formaldehyde in Cosmetics
• 09:18 - Valerie’s Insights on Formaldehyde
• 12:03 - Good Housekeeping’s Product Testing
• 19:09 - Listener Question on Calecim
• 25:43 - Listener Question on Banana Boat Sunscreen
• 29:30 - Toxicity Claims and Ramyana’s Question
• 34:07 - Deciem and NIOD Discussion
• 40:46 - Listener Question on Conditioner Efficacy
• 47:42 - Recommendations for Hard Water Effects on Hair
• 52:17 - Episode Conclusion and Sign-Off

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Be brainy about your beauty with The Beauty Brains by your side.

Transcript

[Perry Romanowski]

Hi, I'm Perry and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Hello and welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 396. I'm your host, Perry Romanowski, and with me today is Valerie George. Hello, Valerie.

[Valerie George]

Hi, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hey, Valerie. Great to see you on that humid day in Texas apparently.

[Valerie George]

Well, you know, it's humid because my hair is all over the place.

[Perry Romanowski]

You gotta be straight. Well, you know what else is all over the place? The questions that we got. And here are the ones we're gonna cover today. On today's show, we are going to cover what do we think of the hair loss product Calyceum Calcium? Well, we'll get that. What is the deal with Banana Boat's Light as Air sunscreen? Why is it so light as air? Are personal care products filled with harmful toxins? What are our thoughts of the deciem company? Are they sketchy? And finally, we'll end with a series of patron questions about hair products. But first, a little chit chat. Valerie, how's it going today?

[Valerie George]

I'm doing good. We just got back from a trade show in scenic Reno, Nevada.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, that's right. We heard about that last time.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, yeah, you know, it was, it was neat. Good coffee scene in Reno. As far as a restaurant perspective goes, there were some good places, but just I don't think the service is great from the staff at places. Yeah, just really like ambivalent if you're there. Not super friendly agreement. I was just surprised because in Vegas you get top notch service because people are professional servers around town.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure, sure. Yeah, I guess Reno is sort of like the minor leagues to get advanced over to Las Vegas.

[Valerie George]

Is there like something smaller than minor leagues aaa?

[Perry Romanowski]

No, that AAA is minor leagues. So like Little League.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. But you know, other than, you know, some of that type of stuff, it was a really great trip. It's a beautiful mountains around. You know, the town was really clean. You know, it was. Parts of it were run down for certain. But you know, the town itself was very clean. And I was impressed.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's. Yeah. Nice area out there. Well, you know, yesterday was Mother's day, so I got to go home to my, my parents, my mom's house and you know, that was, that was a nice time. We had some nice weather here and you know, I did. My mom's getting older, so she's not gonna be around for a while.

[Valerie George]

But I think we're all getting older, aren't we?

[Perry Romanowski]

I suppose all of us will not be getting. Yeah, if we're lucky, we're not getting older.

[Valerie George]

I knew what you meant.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, that's a good point. Yeah, I guess if you start thinking about it like that, you know, we don't have that much time on this earth anyway.

[Valerie George]

Her follicles and scalp are thinning. That's the age she's at.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, Interestingly enough, she's 84, and she still has mostly dark hair.

[Valerie George]

Oh, good for her.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I would say she's maybe 10% gray.

[Valerie George]

Wow. Hopefully you inherited that. You don't have a lot of gray hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

I do not have a lot of gray hair, and I'm in my mid-50s, so, yeah, I did kind of inherit that. Unfortunately, I inherited my dad's bald spot, so I got that going for me. Well, anyway, I brought my ukulele to my mom's house, and we did a little duet thing, so I'll throw that in at the end of the show.

[Valerie George]

That was nice.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, another thing that happened to me. You know how I got this running streak going?

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Did you hit a big milestone?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I have not missed a day in over 6,000 days in a row, so.

[Valerie George]

Wow.

[Perry Romanowski]

But I have developed a little bit of an injury.

[Valerie George]

Okay, but you've been injured before. But what happened this time?

[Perry Romanowski]

I don't know. I went to the doctor and. Well, physician's assistant, I guess. Do you go. I guess people don't go to doctors anymore. But anyway, I'm there, and she says, I think you. Your meniscus is messed up, and you probably have to have surgery. I'm like, but can I keep my running streak going? She's like, probably not. No. I don't know.

[Valerie George]

Is there something you could do to keep the streak going, even if you're just not using one leg?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I.

[Valerie George]

Well, your streak doesn't have to be far. You just have to get out there for a minute and do it.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, you got to go at least a mile. That's my. My personal minimum is a mile and a half, so we'll see. I. I don't know. I don't want. I don't. I'm gonna do everything I can to not end my streaks, so.

[Valerie George]

Well, you want to get it taken care of, though, because if you had to have a knee replacement, your streak would really be over.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm a balance between, you can't end the streak, but you don't want to lose your knee. So I go in for an MRI to see how that's all about. But I'm still running.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, well, you know, 6,000 days is pretty impressive. I had, to be honest, I had to use a calculator to do the math. That's over 16 years, right?

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it'll be 17 years in November, so.

[Valerie George]

Wow. You've been running every day since 2009.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, exactly.

[Valerie George]

Joggling every day since 2009.

[Perry Romanowski]

Joggling, yes. I run and juggle simultaneously. So every time, always outside. I haven't missed a day since November 18th of 20,000, 2008.

[Valerie George]

Did you have a streak before that?

[Perry Romanowski]

I had a 444 day streak before that.

[Valerie George]

Oh.

[Perry Romanowski]

Which I just, you know, I like. 4, 4, 4. So I ended it then.

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I missed the streak so I started another one. So we'll see.

[Valerie George]

Well, I hope. Hope your knee's okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

I. You and me both, sister. Speaking of being okay, let's head over to some beauty news.

[Valerie George]

I felt like you were a little miffed a couple times this week when we were talking. What'd you see?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, there were two articles that kind of are on a similar theme that really annoyed me. And one of them was from my beloved npr, which is losing all their funding from the federal government. But you know, they only 1%. But anyway, I usually rely on NPR to do good stuff. And they had this article about beauty products having chemicals and having formaldehyde in them and the dangers of that. And then another similar post was by the, the HuffPost. And the HuffPost is, you know, oh, toxic, toxic chemicals in, in there. And it just, these things just really bug me first. The, the NPR one bugged me more because essentially they're trying to say that the amount of formaldehyde that you get in products is bad and your products are dangerous and it's just not true. You know, first the ingredient. Just because the ingredient has some formaldehyde releasing ingredients like these are. And these are just preservatives that's in a tiny amount. And when we test these things, these things can be safe when used at these amounts. So just telling people, oh, there's a carcinogen in your product. It doesn't really help them and it just unnecessarily scares people.

[Valerie George]

I don't like the article because they're really creating a lot of fear and a lack of context. So for example, they talk about the EU's ban formaldehyde as a cosmetic ingredient in 2009, but they still allow formaldehyde donors or formaldehyde releasing preservatives. And the concentration warning actually is a threshold. So if you're below that threshold, you don't have to declare a warning that the product contains formaldehyde. And the warning is new. It wasn't even around a couple years ago. So they're acting like, whoa, the EU is so much better. I actually had done work, I'm big into government advocacy when it comes to cosmetic regulations. And I actually did a lot of work with toxicologists and other experts to look at the real risk of using products with formaldehyde donors. And the reality is it's very low. One these ingredients have been used since the 60s, they're non irritating. Use them in extremely, extremely, extremely low concentrations. And should the full amount of material decompose into formaldehyde, you're at such a low level, a banana has about 16 times the amount of formaldehyde in it than the preservatives release into a product. So, you know, I just kind of quipped like, I don't see, you know, the state of Washington regulating fruit. In fact, they're trying to get these groups to eat more fruits and vegetables which naturally contain formaldehyde as part of their fruit composition. So the whole thing is just a ridiculous scare tactic in my opinion. They just don't understand the safety.

[Perry Romanowski]

And that EU thing is so disingenuous because they make this point that the EU bans formaldehyde, but then they still use DMDM hydant in the eu.

[Valerie George]

Right, because there's relatively no risk in using it because again, fruit has more formaldehyde than these preservatives do. And you actually eat fruit.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it's so crazy. And then there was the HuffPost one, which, you know, the HuffPost, it just.

[Valerie George]

Well, it should be called the fluff post, but anyway. Yeah, yeah, I thought it used to have reliable news and now it's more fluff pieces.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I think the problem that all of these places, these online media places have is that they gotta get people to click on stories. And if you're not clicking on a story, you know, if you're not being scary or something concerning, like nobody's gonna read a story that says, oh, cosmetics are safe to use. They're gonna read a story that says, are your beauty products toxic or just misunderstood.

[Valerie George]

I'm just not into click bait or gimmicks, I guess as a person. So I'm just surprised when other people do it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I think that it must work because these things keep coming out. But I think what I want to get across to our listeners is that people should not be panicking because the label has some, you know, multiple syllable word on there that they don't understand. Clean beauty products are not the panacea of safety. All the products that you can buy from legitimate sources in the beauty industry are. Are safety tested. They use safe levels of ingredients and sometimes more information about products does not. Is not going to make you make a better decision. It can make you make decisions out of fear and you'll be spending more money than you need to and you won't be happier.

[Valerie George]

And maybe using an alternative that's actually less safe for you because the ingredients are less studied. Maybe they cause more skin reactions to what happened with parabens.

[Perry Romanowski]

Exactly. Okay, enough of that high horse there. But I'm sure we're gonna see more of that. There was another one from Good Housekeeping that caught my eye.

[Valerie George]

Okay. Not a usual publication for a dude like you.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right? Right. Well, you know, I first met the people at Good Housekeeping when I was doing a death side trip with Alberto Culver. We were launching some new hot oil thing and Good Housekeeping was one of them. But they are different from most magazines in that they actually have a laboratory and they have chemists who will actually evaluate products. And so when you see an article by them, you know, the best hair product or the best wrinkle cream or something, I know that they've actually done some sort of testing. So. So it's always interesting to see.

[Valerie George]

So it's not just a bunch of gals gabbing and being like, oh my God, which one did you like? It has actual scientific data behind it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, as scientific as these kinds of things can be. Right?

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

I think that's one of the big challenges with the beauty industry is that it's really hard to test these things. You know, it's like, how do you determine? Because. Because they're claiming this is our ten best wrinkle creams that actually worked in our lab test. So, like, how do you prove that they had one? Was, you know, the best value was the Neutrogena Rapid Wrinkle Repair Daily Face Moisturizer SPF 30. Okay. I mean, what is the wrinkle repair piece? I look at the ingredients here. It's a sunscreen with moisturizers in it. So yeah, of course it's gonna work.

[Valerie George]

Well, do you know, I actually have a couple products I formulated that have one Good Housekeeping Awards.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, have you?

[Valerie George]

So I have.

[Perry Romanowski]

Did you have to go through the process of submitting them and giving Them extra samples or did they just get the samples on their own?

[Valerie George]

Oh, the, the brands did all of it. I didn't even know. I just saw. Oh, they got these like Good Housekeeping awards. And so that was pretty neat to see. And I think that's how you could say I'm an award winning chemist. I mean I personally won awards as well. But you know, the products I did have won awards, which is a pretty cool feeling to know that somebody likes them.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, hey, I've won awards too. So we're the, we've got two award winning chemists on the show. Well, their number one best overall, I have to say is the number seven Protectant Perfect Intense Advice Advanced Night Cream. Are you familiar with number seven?

[Valerie George]

I am, yeah. It's, I think it's a drugstore brand at least I think in the UK it's, I think it isn't it boots. But in the. I think you get a target. In the US I've had it. You know, the number seven products are good value, you know, are they like wow factor, in my opinion? No, but I think the value is really great. I'm just, you know, if I were going to the drugstore or Target and getting a product, I'm just like an Aveeno girl, you know, Neutrogena. I think those are great.

[Perry Romanowski]

I honestly think that it. For products like this, it's mostly about how does the aesthetics of it, how do you like how it rubs into the skin, how does it feel? Because you know, over time you're not going to be able to really tell that it's making this huge difference. I, I don't believe so. Who remembers what they look like six weeks ago?

[Valerie George]

Who remembers what product I was using six weeks ago?

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

You know, there's just too many, too many out there.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. All right, so I'm gonna leave a link to that in there. But the bottom line is I do think when you see something from Good Housekeeping, they are more. These lists from them are more legitimate than a lot of lists you see from other places which are generally just put together to buy the PR firms. Right? Yeah, PR firms.

[Valerie George]

It's pay to play, paid sponsorships, advertising in the magazine, etc.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, totally. This one does skew more to like drugstore brand products though. I will say that.

[Valerie George]

Oh well, look at that. Some listener feedback to say we want to know.

[Perry Romanowski]

Listen up, feedback, Let it flow. This was one from Jean and was last time we talked about, you know, someone said you put a swim cap.

[Valerie George]

On and leave in conditioner. First.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Then put the swim cap on and it's supposed to protect your hair. And we postulated it's possible it does, but Jean has an interesting perspective we didn't think about.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. Gene said, I used to pour a lot of baby oil on my skin and hair. Greased it up heavily when I would go scuba diving in the Caribbean in the late 1980s.

[Valerie George]

Oh, that sounds fun. Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

I was trying to help protect my skin and hair from drying out from the salt and sun. Found that all the baby oil was completely gone after a 30 minute dive in the ocean. So I didn't bother doing that for more than a couple times. But I did put lotion on my skin and oils on my hair after the dives. So there you.

[Valerie George]

Ocean, you know, is a very different animal because you have tons of movement on the skin. So it's probably, you know. Exactly. Just wiping away some of the product. It's super alkaline ocean water, I think has a PH of around 8. Swimming pool pHs. Swimming pool pH is much lower. And then all the salt. So I would imagine nothing would stand up in the ocean.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, yeah, very, very little would probably stick on your skin, so especially when you're just submerged like that, so. Well, that was very interesting. You know, we did get one other bit of comments and I'll let you read this one on the show where I did a solo.

[Valerie George]

Well, we actually got two. You got one, I got another one. And I was so happy to share the second one with you. So the first one is from CM and they say, perry, I love the AI. It's like, of course they would send a comment to you and you would post it. Not all the time, but it's funny and an odd time. When I send in my next email, I'm gonna request for you to put me on AI.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right. I know I said last time, no more AI. Because we also had comments like Exeter.

[Valerie George]

Well, Exeter from New Hampshire wrote in and just wrote, hate the AI. That's all they put.

[Perry Romanowski]

So because of that, I was so.

[Valerie George]

Happy to send that to Ferry because.

[Perry Romanowski]

The comments like that, I said, all right, we'll cut out the AI stuff. But if somebody sends in a question and they say, make my voice AI, then we will do that. How's that sound?

[Valerie George]

Now I think we should just disclose it was a special request.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, right, right. Yeah. Each time. All right. Speaking of special requests, you ready for the questions?

[Valerie George]

I. Sure.

[Perry Romanowski]

First question comes to us from Monica. She says, I am a hairstylist and my salon is Considering a new product for hair loss. It's called calcium or Calecim.

[Valerie George]

Calecim.

[Perry Romanowski]

Calecium. I don't know why these brands make these words so difficult for me to pronounce.

[Valerie George]

It does calcium.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I think probably not accidentally too. All right, let me try it again. My salon is considering a new product for hair loss. It's called Calecim. I was wondering what you think about it and whether it seems like it would work. I love your show. Thank you, Monica. Here. Okay. And the. Give us a link to it. And I'm looking at it. Well, it's the advanced hair system. 360 bucks.

[Valerie George]

The first thing I saw when I saw this product was just gimmick. There's many sites that look like this. I don't. I don't mean to be rude, but $360 for a hair restoration program that stimulates hair growth, you know, by managing signs of inflammation that causes hair shedding. And there's an activator. And, you know, it's probably heavily discounted at times. Pictures are too good to be true. And it doesn't actually contain a drug active. So it's not approved or authorized by the FDA to be sold. I just. I'm sorry. I don't believe it. And I would never spend the money for it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, I'm saying, what, $360? Like, how big is it? It was like a fluid ounce or something.

[Valerie George]

Well, the product itself is less than an ounce. I think it's 5 millimeters. And it probably comes with many vials. And you use basically like micro needling to stamp this into the sky, literally. There's another company that someone sent me earlier that looks very similar to this but it's a different company. And same thing. It's like, oh, we have peptides, we have collagen. We have hyaluronic acid. Things that don't actually do anything for hair growth on the scalp. Like, yeah, some of these factors are important, but topically, I'm, you know, I just. I'm very skeptical.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, these things have not been proven. And if they did actually work, there's. It's pretty easy to prove this, that it works, right? Because you have. Here's a bald spot, here's a treatment. And then six weeks later or 10 weeks later, here's the results. And that would be convincing enough to get FDA approval and such. I mean, it costs a lot more money. You'd need a lot more. You'd need a lot more test subjects. But that's how you would do it. If you just want to quickly sell a product that doesn't actually necessarily have to do anything beyond convincing you that it's working, you would just call it a cosmetic. You call it something about peptides, and you charge a bunch of money. And so that's. To me, that's what it's looking like. One of the things that does confuse me, though, is how does this company get away with saying it stimulates hair regrowth? Because that seems like a drug claim.

[Valerie George]

Well, it is. And they're not using a monograft drug, active. So they're just saying it. And, you know, the fda, their focus really is in pharmaceuticals and.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

You know, maybe supplements, food, where there's more risk to a consumer. Here, is a consumer going to get injured? No, the product is just not in compliance. And so I think there's just very low priority for that to be policed. My real question is a box lasts six weeks. But here's the thing, Perry. Your hair has a growth cycle. Are you gonna see anything in six weeks on your hair?

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. No. No. How much would your hair even grow in six weeks?

[Valerie George]

Your hair grows on an average, young, healthy person half an inch a month.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, Right. So about a centimeter.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. A little more than. Mm.

[Perry Romanowski]

A little more. Yeah. So I guess you'd see some growth if. If that hair follicle happened to be in the growth phase when you were using this product.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. And then the other thing is that that growth phase is called the antigen phase. It lasts anywhere from two to seven years. So for you to get any appreciable amount of hair on the head, you need to use it and use it and use it. So this isn't like, oh, let me buy one kit, and here I go. You have to keep using it as long as you want the hair to remain in the antigen phase.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow. That's a.

[Valerie George]

This is a pretty expensive treatment system. So if you think it's. Well, you subscribe and save. You save, you know, 20%, let's say. So you're in for 288. $288 every six weeks? Well, there's six weeks in a year, and so you have to buy 8.67 times a year, times $288. You're in at $2,500 just on this serum per year.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Twice a week you gotta stamp every inch of your head.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow. Yeah. So I guess our thoughts on this are that. Yeah, probably. No, I don't think it would work.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I think it's A hard, hard sell. Low rate of adoption, very cost prohibitive for most people. But unfortunately, when people have hair thinning, I actually have hair thinning myself. It's genetic. You know, you'll do anything. I mean, I'm not doing anything, but, you know, most just kind of like existing, but, you know, people will do anything. And it's why people buy these crazy light therapies that don't work and whatnot. So if you really had a hair loss issue, I probably would one use a different product that focuses on reducing breakage and improving your scalp health overall. And then I would see a doctor.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, doctor is ultimately the best case there, if you're serious about it. But the only topical treatments that have been proven to actually work is minoxidil. And that doesn't even work for everybody either.

[Valerie George]

Everyone has different reasons for hair loss.

[Perry Romanowski]

It works for about two thirds of people who use it.

[Valerie George]

Well, hopefully I'll be in the 2/3 when I'm ready to get there.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe AI will come up with some new solutions that we haven't found.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness. Well, our next question comes to us from Xena, a patron. My redheaded partner has a visceral reaction to the oily finish of most sunscreens due to being forced to put it on her entire life. However, we found that banana boats Light as air is a real game changer for us. It still feels like a sunscreen going on, but the finish is bone dry. I would be interested to hear yalls take on its ingredients.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, this is a standard organic chemical sunscreen. Avobenzone, homylosate.

[Valerie George]

Homosalate.

[Perry Romanowski]

Homosylate. What?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, you are making up words.

[Perry Romanowski]

Homos. Wait, I mean, it's just where you pronounce the syllable right.

[Valerie George]

You mean the syllable right?

[Perry Romanowski]

Exactly. Octisalate and octocrylene. So pretty standard sunscreens and standard combinations as well.

[Valerie George]

You see these paired together a lot.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it's got the silica, the tapioca starch for thickening. It's got. Does it get the carbamer too?

[Valerie George]

It does. Acrylate. C 1030 alkyl acrylate. Cross polymer is basically carburemer.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I mean, this is all pretty standard stuff. And so the reason that this one is more lightweight. I think the name helps. Lighter than air. And the fact that it doesn't use zinc oxide or titanium dioxide, which can make things feel heavier, but that would be the main thing. I'm not sure why this would feel lighter than say, other organic chemical sunscreens.

[Valerie George]

Well, I think, you know, sunscreen filters on their own are very greasy feeling. So they have a lot to overcome by combating the intrinsic oiliness that sunscreen filters have. And so they do that by using a lightweight ester, diasopropyl adipate. The silica that you mentioned, the tapioca starch that you mentioned, these are going to improve the dry feeling once the product has dried down. They're very absorbent. And so after the product is spread onto the skin, those two materials probably do their thing. Additionally, the thin thickness of this product comes from the carbomer that Perry mentioned. It comes from the Xanthan gum. There's a couple other polymers actually listed in there. So it's not necessarily a really thick emulsion with heavy emulsifiers. It's really just an overall lightweight system that they do a lot with.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

Just by having these tapioca starch and the silica in there to combat the greasy feel. So. So I think, yeah, there are similarities with other sunscreens, sure. But I think looks like they did a great job. Plus, light is there in the name. As you mentioned, a lot of it can be marketing, but awesome job by the Edgewell folks.

[Perry Romanowski]

And they're a big company, they make a lot of sunscreen, so you would expect that they would come up with a good formula.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

We got a question from a patron, Ramyana. She's actually asked questions before. Hello, beauty brains. The video below has been trending on YouTube and somehow ended up in my recommendations too. She says the lady claims that when she got rid of toxins, including cosmetics and skin care, shampoo, etc, she was able to finally get pregnant. And she's claiming how many things in our environment are toxic include phthalates, parabens, fragrances, which we just talked about in the HuffPost one. I would normally dismiss such stuff, but she claims to be a toxicologist, even though she says also that she has had to unlearn things. So is there any truth in what she's claiming about the dangers of using shampoo, makeup and perfume? And this was actually a video from. It's called the diary of a CEO. And I guess this podcaster guy interviews CEOs. She is Dr. Yvonne Burkhart, a PhD, toxicologist, former senior toxicologist in flavors and fragrance industry at. You said Givaudan.

[Valerie George]

She worked at Givaudan. Correct. Which is a big fragrance company.

[Perry Romanowski]

There you go. And you know what this video reminded me of? There's a study where you ask climatologists you say, is global warming Real. And you know, 95% of climatologists will say, well yeah, it's a problem, it's real. There's still 5% of them who say, no, no, it's not real. So in any field you're going to get these outliers who spout opinions that are different than the vast majority of what all the other people say. And that's, that's kind of what I think is going on here.

[Valerie George]

Well, it's a great strategy because if she spoke the real truth about cosmetic products and how, you know, most of them are safe, that wouldn't get her clicks on her YouTube channel. There's already a bunch of people that do that. Right. And I was just surprised that she was so easily influenced by motherhood in terms of how she completely has dismantled everything she's learned as a classically trained training toxicologist working in the industry. Right, yeah, things are toxic but that they're dose dependent. Right.

[Perry Romanowski]

And of course that's her job, ignores that. Yeah, she totally ignores that in this. It's like she, I guess that's one thing she had to unlearn, but that's right. Dose does make the poison.

[Valerie George]

And I just think it's incredibly unfair of her to say like these problems, products are toxic when one, she doesn't know the formulas for them. She doesn't necessarily has calculated their margin of safety. Looking at aggregate exposure, all things that she would learn. She wouldn't be able to do that if she didn't have access to the intellectual property. And so to make these blanket statements I think is really alarming and I'm very disappointed that she's behaving in this way. It's actually very damaging and kind of disgusting, to be honest.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, she just built up her YouTube channel by a hundred thousand subscribers. So, you know, I think there is some financial incentive also to, you know, if you look at all her stuff, it's like warning toxic diapers, you know, toxic home swabs. It's just everything about her is this stuff is killing you and you shouldn't buy it.

[Valerie George]

Does she drive a car and put benzene particulate out into the air? What about that?

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right. Or, you know, I find funny is, you know, I drink, I'll drink diet sodas. And some of my friends will point out, they're like, how could you drink that stuff? It's full of toxin. While they're holding a glass of wine in their hand. Alcohol is actually poisonous.

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh. Well, so basically what we think about the YouTube video is. I put a thumbs down on it on the YouTube channel. And if she really had the guts to be truthful, those products on that video wouldn't be blurred out. But guess what? They don't want a defamation lawsuit by the brands that she's saying are unsafe because it's absolutely. She has no basis for saying that. Right. It's just clickbait and to attract you to the video. And that's how I feel.

[Perry Romanowski]

Because, you know, those companies did safety testing and they could. If somebody says, oh, your products are unsafe, they'll say, okay, let's go to court and we'll show you all the safety data. And you'll have to prove that what you're saying. And they won't have proof of that. They can just.

[Valerie George]

She'll have zero proof because it's just her opinion based on having zero factual pieces of information about the product.

[Perry Romanowski]

And the fact that she's a toxicologist, I don't think that really matters that much. There are lots of dermatologists that spread misinformation about skin care. So it's not surprising to me. There's toxicologists who would spread misinformation about product safety.

[Valerie George]

And while toxicologists can be expertise or while they can speak in very broad terms, toxicology is toxicology, it does help to be expertise in a subject. And her expertise are fragrance compounds, which are some of the most studied compounds in the world for safety. And they're constantly undergoing regulatory change. But people who are expertise in hair care, they may not be as nuanced in fragrance toxicology or hair color. Excuse me. She may not have the nuance of hair color toxicology and. And that kind of thing.

[Perry Romanowski]

Or sunscreen or whatever.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, toxicologist is a toxicologist, but also expertise helps.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right? Yeah. So I'd still say don't worry about it.

[Valerie George]

All right, well, our next question comes to us from Sammy. Hello. I'm curious to hear your input on the deciem company, the Ordinary and niod. I've been thinking about trying the NIOD modulating glucoside serum, since there's a lot of hype around it helping with rosacea. My only hesitation is that the brand seems a little sketchy. The photos of their products look AI generated. And the only chemist on their team was someone they call their chief scientific officer for the entire deciem company. Do you have any insight on the legitimacy of their brand?

[Perry Romanowski]

Now, you don't. You don't say niod?

[Valerie George]

No, I don't really know how to Say it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah. See, that never stops me. I would just.

[Valerie George]

Well, yeah, I don't know. I just, you know. But I'm also the same person. I had to take this pause pop culture class in high school. And it's so embarrassing to Mr. Cosmetic Chemist, who's works in the music industry when I tell him this story. But I had to do. I somehow got stuck talking about, like, 90s band culture, even though we were in the 90s, which was so weird anyway, like rock band. And so there was a band with numbers at the name.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

3, 1 and 1. And I didn't know they were called 3 11. So I said 3, 1, 1 in my presentation, like 9, 1, 1. And the whole class, like, erupted in laugher because I was obviously like an abyss. So.

[Perry Romanowski]

We are a good match on the show because I would have done that.

[Valerie George]

Niod. I stick to it.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, The NIOD people or the NIOD people, first of all, about this brand, about deciem itself. While it started out as an independent small brand, I think it built up on social media. It rode that wave to become this giant brand.

[Valerie George]

And the owner was very eccentric. He passed away, but he was very, very odd, always in the news. And I think that helped them as well.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, that helped to certainly get attention to the brand. Unfortunately, it probably was a sign of some sort of mental instability of his because he did pass away a number of years after all of this success, too. But the bottom line on this, this brand is it got big enough where it got bought out by a company. And now this company is. This brand is owned by Estee Lauder, which is the third or fourth largest personal care product maker in the entire world. So you can count on the fact that the products that they're putting out are at least safe. And then the claims that they make about them have been proven at least through their lab testing and such.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, Estee Lauder is a great firm. They actually took partial acquisition versus investors many, many years ago. Then in 2017, they took majority ownership of the company. And I believe this was after the founder passed away. And then in 2024, they owned the whole thing. So they're probably going through and getting everything buttoned up. I mean, the reality is, startups, they do play fast and loose.

[Perry Romanowski]

That actually happens whenever a big company buys a small brand that's doing really well. And they buy them because they're doing it really well. And often they're doing really well because, you know, they're not following all the rules that you're Supposed to follow. So when you see a company buys another brand that you like and they're changing the formula, often it could be some cost saving things, but often it is just a, you know, they were not following the rules, so they had to change the formula.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Or updating the packaging, changing their ingredient artwork, that kind of stuff. It happens all the time. And so I'm going to guess, you know, at the beginning they were probably doing some fast and loose things, making claims they couldn't support. Maybe they were making claims they could support. But regardless, brands say as much as they can say and try to push the envelope all the time. It's why Perry and I don't have our own brands because.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

We don't like pushing the envelope and. And a product either does what it says or it doesn't. But that being said, you know, I think they're under great ownership and leadership. They have a great team. It's my understanding they have more chemists on hand now, at least through some of the other organizations maybe. You know, I think they definitely have more than one chemist now, if I recollect.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, for sure, for sure. I mean, they're used. They have the whole backing of the Estee Lauder R D department, which is huge.

[Valerie George]

And they have an R D facility in Canada. So I think they're a brand you can trust over maybe some other brands.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Which will go nameless because nobody asked about them.

[Valerie George]

So, yeah, you can trust them even if it's cheesy. You know, maybe they're still sticking with this only chemist, chief scientific officer shtick. I don't know. But it's a legitimate company.

[Perry Romanowski]

As far as the AI generated photos, you know, they very well could be because the marketing person, you know, they skimp on the marketing. They just, they've got these new AI tools. They're like, create an image and you're not, you know, not necessarily good at that. So I wouldn't hold that as a big strike against them. I would have confidence at least in the chemistry of their products because, you know, Estee Lauder is a big company, so they have that backing. Okay, Valerie, it looks like we got time for one more question. Although really it's one question wrapped up into three questions.

[Valerie George]

So smart.

[Perry Romanowski]

A patron. Yeah. Sophia says, hi, beauty brains. I have chemical relaxer to loosen my very tight, fragile 4C hair that is prone to naturally trying to tangle. It's been frustrating trying to find a routine that works for my long hair goals. And I have purchased a ton of products, read research Papers trying to get better information. So here's the first question. How long do the effects of conditioner actually last on hair, and specifically porous hair? Many people don't wash daily, so conditioner isn't placed on the hair regularly. Some conditioners will say 72 hour hydration. Does that mean after that period the conditioner dissipates? It's common for processed hair to wait like a week or even two weeks before shampooing, although I try to wash and condition two times a week. So that conditioner, like what, how long do conditioners actually work?

[Valerie George]

Well, it's really about the ingredients in them because some of them are really affinitive for the hair, some aren't. So I think it's really hard to make a blanket statement. I think if you are talking about the overall feel perception of conditioned hair, it probably lasts one wash. And this is because conditioners work by creating this outer layer on the hair fiber that the consumer feels and they equate that feeling with hair health. And unfortunately those things do wash away. However, an ingredient like Amodimethicone is substantive to last multiple washes because it's designed to do that to give you the long lasting effects. And if you use a product without amodimethicone in it, it'll subsequently remove amodimethicone from the hair. So it really just depends. Also, some ingredients like fatty acids do have the ability to penetrate the hair fiber. How long they stay inside is really hard to tell because I, I don't recall any wash data being done on that. Now, in terms of 72 hour hydration, how do you think that claim is done, Perry? Do you think it just disappears after 72 hours? It's a rhetorical question to do a test like that.

[Perry Romanowski]

There are two ways you could test something like that. First, sort of the wrong way would be to do a tres test. And you can do a tres. You treat it and you measure some aspect about combing or feel and then you let it sit and then you measure that aspect. You know, a couple days later they get a 72 hours. And these, you compare the scores. Now I say that's, that's a way that you get a, like a claim support claim for that. But that's not good, a good sort of legitimate way to do it, because that's not what happens to people's hair. No, nobody puts a product on and lets their hair sit without moving it for, you know, 72 hours. So that's a way they, somebody might do it. But the better way to do it is you have somebody use the product, then don't use anything for 72 hours and then come back and try it again and measure it from there. Now, as far as the product dissipating, it doesn't dissipate. I mean, most things in a conditioner do not evaporate off of your hair, which is what I take dissipate to mean. All the chemicals are still on your hair. But what makes a conditioner works is it makes a film on the fibers and that film essentially can break apart, it can absorb oil that's coming out of your scalp and then it just does not condition and feel the same way.

[Valerie George]

Your head rubs on a pillow, et cetera. So that 72 hour claim really is coming from a testing methodology. It's not like, oh wow, it stopped working after 72 hours. They just came back and said, okay, you know, people aren't going to wash their hair every day. Maybe it's every other day, maybe it's every third day. So can we get this 72 hours of hydration claim so the consumer feels like the product is working from wash to wash? So I would say it's more like that, yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay, next question. Is there any process or ingredient or products for processed hair to get hair closer to virgin hairs and terms of tensile strength and resistance to splitting and breakage for better retention? I've tried K18, Olaplex, etc, but not convinced. Using it outside the relaxing process does a ton.

[Valerie George]

Well, I mean, nothing, it's hard to say because when you do testing for an ingredient, when you test it on hairs or even finished product testing, really you're testing it against virgin hair as like the benchmark. Right. Because it hasn't been chemically treated, it's theoretically not very damaged. And so that's kind of like what you would expect the hair to behave like if you hadn't done anything to it. Now, when an ingredient is being marketed by an ingredient producer or a product is being marketed, they'll also test in that way where they will say, okay, we're going to take the virgin hair as a control and test, you know, how strong it was. Then we're going to take damaged hair, put our product on it, or put our ingredient on it and test it and compare how it did, the closer you can get the hair's behavior to the virgin hair, that's considered a win or, you know, some kind of benefit from the ingredient or product. Now off the top of my head, in terms of tensile strength and resistance to splitting or Breakage. I can't think of anything that would be comparable just because everyone kind of does it and there's nothing that's like a super wow factor.

[Perry Romanowski]

I, I don't think there's anything that's going to make that you're going to apply topically that's going to make your tensile strength of the fiber more, you know, the same strength as like a virgin hair. It just. That just doesn't happen. Because if you can imagine it on a big scale, it's like comparing a pretty perfectly undamaged rope to one that's a little bit damaged. And you're never going to get the one that's damaged back to the original. But as far as resistance to breaking, you know, a conditioner, the way that testings are done, you could use a conditioner and that will help to resist breaking of the hair while you're combing the hair.

[Valerie George]

But I'll tell you what ingredient I'm currently re interested in, Perry. You know, because I go through phases where I'm like upset with an ingredient and then I forget about it because there's other ingredients that you move on to is arginine. It's a simple amino acid, but it really likes to be inside the hair and there's a lot of great data behind it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Ah, okay. Look for arg.

[Valerie George]

Very low use levels. But again, it's hard to say. Look for a product with arginine in it because you have no idea how people are using it as it getting in the hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Well, I could, I could tell you at VO5, we had five vitamin complex and arginine was in there, and it wasn't in there at a level that would do anything.

[Valerie George]

Was it in there at 0.1% at least? Probably not.

[Perry Romanowski]

No. It was point. It was 0.1% of the raw material and it was in a 0.01% in that raw material.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness. Well, you need at least 0.1% arginine Amino acid itself in.

[Perry Romanowski]

So it was a. It was 100 or a thousand times less than that. All right, one more question here. Any recommendations for hard water high in iron in addition to calcium carbonate for processed porous hair? Would something like l' Oreal Metal detox or Kerastase Premier really help? Hard water test shows very hard water. Unfortunately, I have a million more questions, but I'll paste them. Appreciate what you do. Scientists aren't appreciated nearly enough, in my opinion. After my chemistry degree, I was interested in going into cosmetic chemistry at P and G. However, for Personal reasons I didn't, so. But it's still my passion project.

[Valerie George]

Oh, very cool.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Let's look at hard water. I don't have a lot of recommendations for hard water stuff, do you?

[Valerie George]

Well, I definitely recommend a product geared towards demineralizing the hair. And I would say like the original leader brand is Malibu Citizen. They, their patent's gone, even though on some of their products they still write their patent number even though it's been expired. But you essentially want products designed to remove metals from the hair. So it could be metal detox, it could be. Wella has a product line for that as well, I believe. And then Malibu C, I would say is another recommendation. Products for like swimmers hair, for example, because. Because it's not enough just to have a chelating agent in there. People will say, oh well, it has a chelating agent like tetrasodium EDTA or disodium EDTA or tetrasodium glutamate diacetate that'll remove metals. And the reality is you need a ton in a product to actually get metals out of the hair. It's usually chelating agents are in a product to prevent metals from interacting with the product. They're at a very low use level.

[Perry Romanowski]

But also in there to help the preservative system work better.

[Valerie George]

And so another great reason to use them.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, they don't have to put them at a high level. And so if it's just in there for the preservative system, it's not going to do much for your hard water problem.

[Valerie George]

No, I mean, you need a lot to interact with the hair and pull anything meaningful out. So I would say the l' Oreal metal detox you mentioned is great. Uh, Wella has a great care portfolio for that. I, I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but they actually have done tons of research in this space to see what will remove metals, I think specifically copper, to be honest, that cause long term hair damage over time. And then Malibu Sea, of course, is just the gold standard. And you don't have to get their shampoo and conditioner if you don't like it. They actually have like little treatment packets that you could do once per week. Now you do have to be careful because it may impact your relaxed hair, but testing would probably just be the best thing to see how use overuse. It interacts. You could also get, if your water's super terrible and like you own your home, you can get a water softening system. I don't recommend like Those shower heads because they don't last very long and they're very expensive, but you can actually call like a plumbing company, they could install a water softening system or even if you just rent, maybe it's something that's pretty inexpensive that you could have installed.

[Perry Romanowski]

Now, could the water be so soft you could use it as a pillow?

[Valerie George]

That doesn't even make sense.

[Perry Romanowski]

I know. It just came to be. You know what does make sense though? That music that I hear.

[Valerie George]

Oh my gosh. Is that the the end of our show or your mom and the ukulele now?

[Perry Romanowski]

That's the end of the show. You gotta wait till way at the end of the show for that.

[Valerie George]

The end of the end of the show. Well, thanks for listening everyone. If you get a chance, please head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review that's gonna help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[Perry Romanowski]

We're also on Spotify and if you leave a comment there, we will read them. And if you have a question you wanna just replace, record it on your smartphone and email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com or you can just. There's a form in the show notes, you can put an email version in there.

[Valerie George]

The beauty brains are also on Patreon. It is not free to put on this show and we don't take ad support. You may have noticed no pesky ads during this episode. On my road trip back home from Reno, we listened to many podcasts and it was minutes and minutes and minutes of ads. So terrible. But to help us pay for the basic cost of the show, we do have a Patreon account. Just head to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level to receive special perks for supporting the show.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, and you can also follow us on our various social media accounts. Instagram, we're eautybrain@hebeautybrains 2018 on X or Twitter, we're hebeauty brains on Blue sky. We're at the Beautybrains and and we have a Facebook page and we sitting on a TikTok page that we've never really used, have we? Is TikTok still legal?

[Valerie George]

I can't even get into it because my brain can't process how to use the app. It's like too many flashing things.

[Perry Romanowski]

There's a lot of flashing things like a pachinko machine or something or a slot machine.

[Valerie George]

Oh my gosh. Well, thanks again for listening everyone and Remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks, everyone. Kittens.

[C]

Oh, we ain't got a barrel of money, baby we're ragged and fun funny but we'll travel along Singing a song side by side oh, we don't know what's coming tomorrow maybe it's trouble and sorrow but we'll travel the road Singing our load side by side through all kinds of weather what if the sky should fall? Just as long as we're together it really doesn't matter at all when they've all had their quarrels and parties we'll be the same as we started Just to travel on the road Sharing our load side by side Just traveling along Singing a song.