Episode 399 - From Curl Cream to Tretinoin: Unpacking Your Beauty Questions!

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Beauty Brains - Episode 399

Title: From Curl Cream to Tretinoin: Unpacking Your Beauty Questions!

Release Date: June 16, 2025

Hosts: Perry Romanowski and Valerie George

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Introduction and Overview

In Episode 399 of The Beauty Brains, hosts Perry Romanowski and Valerie George delve into a variety of beauty-related questions submitted by listeners. The episode covers topics ranging from product stability and the efficacy of retinol versus tretinoin to the safety of using skin products on the scalp and the effectiveness of salt sprays for hair. Throughout the discussion, the hosts provide scientific insights and debunk common beauty myths, ensuring listeners receive accurate and practical advice.

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Industry Insights and Trends

Recent Conferences and Ingredient Innovations

Perry shares his experience speaking at the IPCE fourth annual conference in Verona, Italy, highlighting innovative ingredients such as silkworm proteins produced via recombinant DNA technology. This method ensures that no silkworms are harmed in the production process, addressing ethical concerns associated with traditional silk protein extraction.

Perry Romanowski [04:07]: "So it's very cool. Yeah. It's produced in fermentation plants by yeast."

Valerie expresses her skepticism towards the overuse of trends like "exosomes" and criticizes the vague marketing terminology often employed in the beauty industry.

Valerie George [05:13]: "It disgusts me, to be honest, because whenever I hear that, I know, raw material company or trends person has no clue what they're talking about."

Critical Analysis of Marketing Claims

The hosts discuss the prevalence of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in product development and note a decline in previously popular trends like natural and green products as well as inclusivity in beauty marketing. They emphasize the importance of scrutinizing ingredient claims and conducting independent evaluations to ensure product efficacy and safety.

Valerie George [06:41]: "I actually do critique the studies that this raw material suppliers do because, yeah, I don't know, some of the studies are just really bad."

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Beauty News: Evaluating "Best Shampoos for Men"

Critique of Beauty Articles

Perry and Valerie examine a recent beauty article that lists the "Best Shampoos for Men," questioning the high price points and the selection criteria used by the authors. They express frustration over the lack of scientific backing and the potential influence of affiliate marketing.

Perry Romanowski [08:57]: "The first thing I look at when I looked at these, you know, top 10, what they were saying what the price."

Ingredient Analysis

The hosts analyze the ingredient lists of popular shampoos like Pantene, concluding that the formulations are not significantly different from more affordable options. They debunk the myth that Pantene is harmful to hair, noting that it is a moisturizing, two-in-one shampoo designed to condition and cleanse without stripping the hair.

Valerie George [29:05]: "And yeah, the Devin S product is a little different because it's sulfate free. And so I actually think. And by the way, I like Davines products."

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Audience Questions and Expert Answers

1. Curl Cream Consistency Change (Question from Renata)

Question: Renata from Sao Paulo reports that her curl cream from Alpha Parf Alta Moda has become watery despite having an expiration date of 2028. She seeks advice on whether the product has gone bad.

Answer: Perry and Valerie explain that the thinning of the cream is likely due to temperature fluctuations causing syneresis, where water separates from the emulsion. They suggest shaking the product before use and storing it in a cooler, more stable environment to prevent further separation. They assure that as long as there are no changes in color or odor, the product remains safe to use.

Valerie George [19:07]: "So what could be happening? ... it might not work for you."

Notable Quote:

Valerie George [20:45]: "But if you notice a performance difference, I would just toss it."

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2. Retinol vs. Tretinoin Efficacy (Question from Lisa)

Question: Lisa asks whether the lasting results of retinol are comparable to tretinoin (Retin A), considering that tretinoin is more potent but also more irritating.

Answer: Valerie elaborates that while retinol must convert to retinoic acid within the skin, tretinoin provides immediate efficacy as it is already in the active form. Tretinoin tends to offer more noticeable results but comes with increased skin irritation. They conclude that the choice depends on the user's tolerance and desired outcomes, with tretinoin being the gold standard for efficacy.

Valerie George [24:58]: "Tretinoin is the gold standard. It's what is tested against."

Notable Quote:

Perry Romanowski [25:11]: "Once you stop using either of them, your skin is going to kind of revert back to how it naturally was."

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3. Pantene vs. Davines Shampoo for Bleached Hair (Question from Lorena)

Question: Lorena wonders if Pantene is suitable for her bleached hair or if she should switch to the more expensive Davines Volu shampoo as recommended by her new hairdresser.

Answer: Valerie and Perry address the misconception that Pantene strips hair. They analyze the ingredient lists, noting that both shampoos contain similar conditioning agents. They explain that the primary difference lies in the cleansing agents used, with Davines employing sodium lauroyl methyl isethionate, which may leave more residue compared to Pantene's formulation. They reassure Lorena that Pantene is a moisturizing option and that expensive alternatives are not necessarily superior.

Valerie George [29:05]: "It's not that it's better for your hair, it's just different."

Notable Quote:

Perry Romanowski [30:02]: "It's a moisturizing shampoo. It's practically a two in one."

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4. Using Skincare Products on the Scalp (Question from Rita)

Question: Rita asks whether it's safe to apply skin moisturizers, specifically the Hadalabo toner, on her scalp.

Answer: Valerie emphasizes that while the scalp is indeed skin, it has unique needs distinct from facial or body skin. She approves of the Hadalabo toner for scalp use, highlighting its simple formulation with humectants like butylene glycol and glycerin, which are beneficial for scalp hydration without harmful exfoliants.

Valerie George [36:34]: "This formula is actually perfect for scalp. It doesn't have any of the things that I think violate, you know, scalp health principles."

Notable Quote:

Valerie George [37:29]: "This formula is actually perfect for scalp. It doesn't have any of the things that I think violate, you know, scalp health principles."

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5. Using Metal Spoons to Mix Vitamin C (Question from Paula)

Question: Paula inquires about the safety of using a stainless steel spoon to mix ascorbic acid with water for skin application, concerned that metal might adversely affect the vitamin C.

Answer: Perry clarifies that high-quality stainless steel is resistant to corrosion and should not significantly affect the ascorbic acid. Valerie adds that while stainless steel is generally safe, household metal utensils may not always be of the highest quality. She suggests using plastic spoons to avoid potential metal ion contamination and recommends monitoring the pH of the mixture to ensure skin safety.

Valerie George [43:04]: "You don't want to put something on your skin that's like a PH of one either."

Notable Quote:

Perry Romanowski [40:31]: "So stainless steel, we use that in manufacturing stuff because it's pretty resistant to any kind of corrosion."

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6. Safety and Effectiveness of Salt Sprays for Hair (Question from Morgan)

Question: Morgan asks whether salt sprays are safe for hair use, how they work, and if there are any alternatives.

Answer: Valerie explains that salt sprays typically contain salts like magnesium sulfate, which recrystallize on the hair after application to lock in styles without causing damage. Perry concurs, noting that the salts used are large and do not penetrate the hair fibers, making them safe when used correctly. They also discuss the trend of incorporating magnesium from the DIY beauty community into commercial products.

Valerie George [43:27]: "I think they're actually really great products. They're really harmless."

Notable Quote:

Perry Romanowski [46:19]: "Salt sprays like she said, it's just topical. It's not penetrating."

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Additional Discussions

Celebrity Endorsements and Ethical Concerns

The hosts touch upon the bizarre marketing strategies of some brands, such as a limited edition soap allegedly made with Sydney Sweeney's bath water. They critique the concept as unethical and unhygienic, emphasizing the importance of maintaining integrity in beauty product formulations.

Valerie George [16:25]: "That can't be accurate because that thing would be so contaminated."

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Conclusion

Perry and Valerie wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to submit their own beauty questions and engage with the podcast through reviews and social media. They emphasize their commitment to providing unbiased, science-based beauty advice without the influence of advertisements.

Perry Romanowski [47:41]: "If you have a question. We love other voices of real humans on the show."

Valerie George [48:37]: "Thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty."

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Key Takeaways:

• Product Stability: Changes in product consistency can result from temperature fluctuations and inadequate emulsifiers. Proper storage can mitigate these issues.
• Retinol vs. Tretinoin: Tretinoin offers more potent and immediate results but with increased irritation, whereas retinol is more skin-friendly but less effective.
• Shampoo Myths: Popular shampoos like Pantene are not inherently harmful and offer similar benefits to more expensive brands.
• Scalp Care: Scalp-specific formulations are necessary due to the unique needs of the scalp compared to other skin areas.
• DIY Beauty Safety: Using high-quality materials and monitoring pH levels is crucial when mixing skincare products at home.
• Salt Sprays: When used correctly, salt sprays are safe and effective for styling without damaging hair fibers.

By providing thorough explanations and scientific insights, Perry and Valerie empower listeners to make informed beauty choices and debunk prevalent myths within the industry.

Transcript

[Perry Romanowski]

Hi, I'm Perry and you're listening to the Beauty Brain. Hello and welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 399. I'm your host, Perry Romanowski, and with me today is Valerie George. Hello, Valerie.

[Valerie George]

Hi, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Did you ever see that TV show hello, Valerie?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, no, I didn't know that was a TV show.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, you know what it was. Hello, Larry.

[Valerie George]

Oh my.

[Perry Romanowski]

I should do some more research for the show.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, you think I would have heard of a show called hello, Valerie?

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of show, on today's show we're going to cover a lot of questions including how do you know if a product has gone bad? Are the results from retinol comparable to Retin A? Is, Is Pantene bad for hair? Can you use skin products on your scalp? Is it okay to use a metal spoon to mix vitamin C? And are salt sprays safe for use? But first, a little chit chat. I missed you guys last week and I heard that you and Sarah did a little show together.

[Valerie George]

We did. I still don't have the guts to do one on my own. I just don't. But I know that you're headed off on a big trip and I just might have to be alone next week. I don't know. Mr. Cosmetic Chemist said absolutely not to joining me.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, come on. He can't just chime in. We could come up with some, some clever brain thing. It could be. Let's see, Medulla Blancata. Would he go?

[Valerie George]

Oh my goodness, I don't. He won't go for that at all.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, yes, I'm going to. Actually, I'm traveling to Italy to speak in the IPCE fourth annual conference there. The keynote speaker and it's being held in Verona, Italy.

[Valerie George]

Oh, Verona is a beautiful place. I've been many times. I don't know if you remember, Perry, but when I worked at very large salon brand, I had to go to Italy a couple times a year for work to our factories and I, I loved it. I mean, I got a little tired of going to the same places, but you know, I wasn't like in Capri or like on the Amalfi coast, you know, I was like in a factory in Milan. But I had a little opportunity to go around. So I hope you have a great time. Verona's really charming.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, my, my wife has got lots of travel plans for us, so that'll be good. Hopefully my gimpy leg Holds out. Apparently I've torn my meniscus, and it takes a while for that to get better.

[Valerie George]

So they did confirm it's torn?

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And ideally, you wouldn't be running in order for it to heal. Ideally, maybe you would even have it repaired surgically.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, my doctor said at first I should try physical therapy, which I'll try when I get back.

[Valerie George]

What did he say about joggling every day on it?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, she did not say it was a problem.

[Valerie George]

Okay, well, we'll see when your leg does not get better.

[Perry Romanowski]

I know, but I think it'll get better. Just takes longer. So, you know, I'm running slower and shorter, but, you know, otherwise I'm gonna get. You know, I'll gain way too much weight because I won't be exercising. And.

[Valerie George]

You were also just in New York for suppliers day. I didn't get to go. I had a little bit of fomo. But you know what? I have a ton of work I'm trying to get wrapped up here, and so I didn't regret going too much. Not going too much.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Well, it was a big show. I got to see lots of people. We. I met a few Beauty Brains fans, even. So that was very cool. Yeah. And I moderated a bunch of the sessions there, which were interesting. You know, they had some good information. And there was one guy talking about silkworm protein, but made through recombinant DNA so they didn't hurt the silkworms.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, that would be very interesting. A lot of silk protein, unfortunately, is made by boiling the worms or, you know, doing unsavory things that actually just end up killing the worms. So in hair care, it's very popular, but it's not humane at all.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. So this is kind of a new way to do it, which is humane. And no silkworms are injured in the.

[Valerie George]

Process, and they're not even really involved in the process. Right. It's like, thanks for your DNA. Bye.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Exactly. So it's very cool. Yeah. It's produced in fermentation plants by yeast. So that was one of the more interesting ingredients I saw. Mostly it was exosomes. Exosomes.

[Valerie George]

Exosomes, which everyone, you know, is calling if they have an encapsulated vesicle of some kind, Typically, if it contains any DNA matter or plant matter or extracts or whatever, they're just calling it an exosome.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes. And of course, this your. Your favorite, the skinification of hair care. Still a trend out there.

[Valerie George]

It disgusts me, to be honest, because whenever I hear that, I Know, raw material company or trends person has no clue what they're talking about.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah, well, there were a lot of AI stuff. So everybody's got us mention that their products were developed with AI, so that's still a hot trend. You know what's not so much a hot trend, I think, is the focus on natural and green. And also people have sort of backed off of the, you know, inclusivity angle, which was huge the last couple of years. Anti aging or pro aging was also something that I noticed a lot of.

[Valerie George]

Well, it just goes to show that ingredient companies who are marketing to brands, product developers, marketers, chemists, they're just jumping on whatever's trend worthy now. I mean, they'll do anything to get you over to their booth. So I don't put a lot of stock in what they say. You know, I, I actually do critique the studies that this raw material suppliers do because, yeah, I don't know, some of the studies are just really bad. And it's like, you can't tell me this product is great for hair gloss. When you studied it in this application, the change in your gloss value was X. Like it's just not meaningful. And then, I don't know, some people are really grateful for the insight I provide because not everyone is expertise in hair or whatever. And some people are not grateful.

[Perry Romanowski]

These studies are also designed to get you to buy an ingredient. And so they're a little bit. They're not really science, they're more like a claims demonstration. I'll give you an example that the guy was sort of talking about his silk protein for hair. And he showed a hair curl that he showed like how good this silk protein held the curl in the hair. And then he showed an untreated test one and he also showed a comparison to some silicone. And I'm just looking at that and I say like, why didn't you compare it to like a hairspray resin? Which is what I use, like PvP.

[Valerie George]

PvP would be the gold standard. You do a curl trust comparison, I guess.

[Perry Romanowski]

So that happens a lot in research where they'll just show it compared to something that they know is bad and it's ours is better than. The thing I know is this happens with moisturizing too. They're like, oh, this ingredient moisturizes them. But then they don't compare it to like petrolatum or mineral oil, which is going to give you the best moisturization score. So that's the kind of shenanigans that go on.

[Valerie George]

I think some of it is intentional. But sometimes I think too, especially with hair, I just honestly don't think people know a lot about hair. Even on the raw material side. I get a lot of my work is with raw material suppliers, and I just. Yeah, some of it is nefarious, and other times it's like they just don't know better. And at the end of the day, they're also selling to chemists who don't know better, which is very scary.

[Perry Romanowski]

The chemists should know better, but fortunately, there's folks like us in the industry that keeps people a little bit skeptical. All right, well, let's head over to beauty news.

[Valerie George]

Well, last week, Perry, Sarah Bellum and I covered an article that I know you wanted to cover the best shampoos for men, but we actually didn't even look at the article. We just said, what about the best shampoos for women? And it should be based on our opinions only. Okay, so I wanted to know what you thought of this new beauty article that inspired our conversation called Best shampoos for Men.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay. I was looking at this and I was saying, okay, you know, the first thing I look at when I looked at these, you know, top 10, what they were saying what the price. First one is $43.

[Valerie George]

That's really high for a shampoo, by the way, even for women.

[Perry Romanowski]

I know, $44, you know, okay, there's a $26 one. The cheapest one here was $16, and that's for like an eight ouncer. And like, who, who picked these? Like, come on.

[Valerie George]

Do they get affiliate links? Like, they get money for each clip.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I mean, that's, that's probably what's going on here. But, you know, they got. They must have had some sort of experts. They mentioned the experts, they said, who are picking it. But I guess the experts are like hairstylists and, and folks like that there aren't.

[Valerie George]

Well, they didn't do a panel of like, ordinary men.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, they did not. But I mean, is it the best shampoo for men? Just like Suave or VO5 maybe?

[Valerie George]

I don't know. I'll tell you how Mr. Cosmetic Chemist shops for shampoo. He goes to Amazon and he types in best shampoo for men and he buys whatever comes up in the top tier.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow.

[Valerie George]

He also gets Nizoral at 1%.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, sure, sure.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Swap, set and rotate set in every once in a while. But yeah, aside from. Well, now we're. I'm on a buying ban and we're going through. Oh, no, you know, because I have to buy a lot of product for work. And I don't work at a company anymore where I can just share products with people. I mean, I try to give them away. For example, there's one beauty brains listener who is in the Dallas area, and I was like, hey, I'm getting. I, like, I had a bunch of Wella product that I used and tried, but I just can't use all this stuff. I have a ton of hair, but you can only use so much, right? And. Or maybe she posted about it or something happened and I was like, hey, I actually have the whole set. I'll. I'll drop it off to you. I've only used it a couple times, you know, just to do some work stuff with it. And so I did that. But he's using what we have now, and he. He doesn't love it. But when we're ready to go back to buying shampoo, he'll get his own because he has very fine hair. I have very coarse hair, like male leg hair. That's what I always say. But he'll go back to Amazon and say, like, best shampoo for fine hair men. Something like that.

[Perry Romanowski]

See, I. I worked at a hair care company for 17 or 18 years, and I would always just take samples from home. I worked on, you know, TRESemme, Nexus, VO5, St. Ives. So I had a whole variety of stuff, and it was. I. I had stuff left over for like 10 years before I finally used it all up. After I left the company.

[Valerie George]

You went from the most shampooed head to the least shampooed head.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I still shampoo daily, but, you know, for me, shampoo is all about what's the fragrance like? Do I like the fragrance? And it's good. And the foam, I do need the foam because I use like the hotel shampoos. And there are some of them that are just terrible.

[Valerie George]

You know what they do not.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know what they are? Yeah, right. They're always the sulfate free ones. Like, come on, can't people make a good foam and sulfate free.

[Valerie George]

I mean, I can, but they're probably too expensive for a hotel amenity, but. Okay, okay, set aside VO5. Set aside Suave Tresemme. Is there one shampoo that you would pick where you used it and you were like, wow, this is pretty good on my short hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

I mean, Pantene really works well and edits.

[Valerie George]

You said that with a lot of confirmation.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I.

[Valerie George]

You did it, Perry. You were like, well, I guess if I had to pick one because Valerie's forcing me To.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, but Pantene works. It works great. And the thing that I like about Pantene, it has a creamy kind of foam, which works very well as a body wash also.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's very creamy. Pantena.

[Perry Romanowski]

I don't. I use. All I use was my shampoo. That's all. I use shampoo for washing my body too, so it doesn't matter. And I use a shampoo for washing my clothes too, if I happen to bring clothes in the shower with me.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

So for that, I prefer not to use Pantene because it's gonna deposit some of that silicone on my, my clothes. But for body wash and hair, it works really well for me. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Again, just not toothpaste, just not too face.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's. That's the one thing I won't leave home without. All right, are we ready for the next story? Yeah, I was. You know, there's. I listen to all kinds of other beauty podcasts.

[Valerie George]

Yep.

[Perry Romanowski]

And the one that used to be. It was their up and comer. Like we had. We had recorded a couple hundred episodes and they hadn't quite recorded that many. So I was like, we always gotta have more episodes than fat mascara.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

And then they went to publishing like four times a week and just blew us away.

[Valerie George]

But, well, to be fair, their publishing wasn't real new content. A lot of it was older stuff. And to be fair, half the podcast is ads. That's why I had to stop listening to it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Because I can't forward four minutes in between ads. Like, I. I just can't. It drives me crazy.

[Perry Romanowski]

The ads were a bit much, although I enjoyed, I enjoyed some of their stuff. They were always having interviews with people.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

And you know, people in beauty. And to me, you know, that's just not a kind of a thing I'm interested in. But I just saw that one of the hosts got hired on at the New York Times for their wire cutter section and they're ending their podcast.

[Valerie George]

Oh, well, they had a good run and, you know, I wish her luck.

[Perry Romanowski]

500 something episodes.

[Valerie George]

Well, I'd like to know how many of them are unique episodes, but nonetheless, good question.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And they had a lot of guest hosting too, because I think when one of them had a. Had a kid, so then they took a break and they, you know, when they took a break, they had guest hosting and that kind of thing.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. You know, we get hit up all the time to have guests on the show and not like Sarah Bellum and maybe like the dream guest, Mr. Cosmetic Chemist. Even though he wouldn't have a lot to say. We get hit up all the time. And the reason we actually don't have guests on the show is that most people are interested in being a guest because they have something to promote, and we're just not into that.

[Perry Romanowski]

We're not. It's hard to have a guest on who makes a claim about their product. And then you'd be like, yeah, but, you know, you could get this thing cheaper. Nobody wants to be made uncomfortable like that. So we just kind of choose not to do that.

[Valerie George]

Well, another piece of news that hit Mr. Cosmetic Chemist actually brought this up to me. I had also seen it, but it just made me a little happy. He was paying attention, mostly because it's Sydney Sweeney. And for the longest time, we were like, we have no idea who she is, but why is she everywhere? And he basically saw an article about Sydney Sweeney and the bath soap controversy where there's a soap company who is making a soap, allegedly with her bath water.

[Perry Romanowski]

Dr. Squatch said they had announced a limited edition soap which contains the controversial ingredients. So she bathes in something, and then they take that water and make soap out of it.

[Valerie George]

That can't be accurate because that thing would be so contaminated, you'd have to filter all the body hair out of it. A body.

[Perry Romanowski]

I don't know, limited edition soap with her actual bath water.

[Valerie George]

Maybe it was she drew the bath and put her hand in or something. But there's no way there was a full body submerging happening. That would be disgusting, as Mr. Cosmetic Chemist put it. And I'm not incentivized to go purchases.

[Perry Romanowski]

I mean, this takes the, you know, the celebrity beauty line to a whole new level.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, they crossed the line. That's what they did.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. That is. That is bizarre. Now, I wonder. I mean, it depends on how well it does. Other celebrities might do that. Like, also, what dudes are buying this?

[Valerie George]

I don't know. I mean, my nephew uses Dr. Squatch, but I doubt. I don't picture him buying this.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure, it's. It is a little. It is a little odd. I could see selling a limited edition out just for the, you know, it's kind of funny factor.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

But I.

[Valerie George]

Pretty soon she's gonna be tired of taking baths for Dr. Squatch.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. You know, Sydney Sweeney, she was in that movie Madame Web, a spider man movie.

[Valerie George]

Huh.

[Perry Romanowski]

And she was pretty good in that, as I think she was Spider Woman.

[Valerie George]

I think her name has gotten her fame. It's a very catchy celebrity like name.

[Perry Romanowski]

I Guess it does have it. But she must be a decent enough actress. Oh, sure, she gets.

[Valerie George]

Yes, she gets roles and such, plus the name. But if her name were like Sydney Smith, I mean, come on.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, then she would have switched it. It's Hollywood.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

Are we ready to answer some questions?

[Valerie George]

Let's do it. Our first question comes to us from Renata. I believe we've gotten a lot of questions from Renata. She must be. Be a patron. Hello, beauty brains. I have a question for you. I live less than three. A little less than three months ago, I bought a curl cream from the band Alpha Parf Alta Moda. It was a thick cream that was difficult to squeeze out of the bottle. But I noticed that all of a sudden the product became fluid and watery. It's not smelling different. Although. What could be happening? Has the formula gone bad? I love the show. Thank you in advance.

[Perry Romanowski]

She also says that she lives in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The temperature is a little warm during the day and cold at early evening.

[Valerie George]

That's right. It's in the. In the fall there. So the expiration of the product is also 2028, so it definitely shouldn't be expired. But if we take a look at the ingredient list, it looks to be a very nice hair conditioning cream with water, some thickening agents, a little petrolatum, the preservative, conditioning agents, lots and lots of allergens disclosed, lots of incidental ingredients, stuff at very tiny use levels. So what could be happening?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I mean, this is just probably it heated up and then it cooled down. And the water sort of. What do they call it, syneresis. It sort of expressed out a little bit. Especially if this was a thicker product, it says it's a curl cream, so the viscosity might be thicker. So when it heats up, the particles of the emulsion, which is the oil emulsified particles, they can start to combine. And that's going to squeeze out some of the water. That would be my guess.

[Valerie George]

I'm also going to guess there's not really an effective emulsifier in this formula. Because if you take a look, cetrimonium chloride, which is a conditioning agent for when your hair is wet, can do a little bit of emulsification, but there's not really another emulsifier in the formula. And so they're probably relying on the viscosity of the product to keep everything locked together. And when it gets exposed to heat, that doesn't work. So I also would think with the petrolatum, which is not really necessarily compatible in this type of system, you need something a little more robust to keep it held in. And so I would say probably just the formulation could use a little assurance.

[Perry Romanowski]

A little Zhujian, maybe a little glycerol stearate if it were something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because acetylcholine, cetearyl alcohol might help a little bit also as a co emulsifier, but not for petrolatum.

[Valerie George]

No, not at all. So I think the cream is probably okay to use, but if you don't like the consistency of it or the consistency is too different, it might not work for you.

[Perry Romanowski]

Also, if that is a problem, shake before use.

[Valerie George]

Well, I don't know if you could shake a cream like this if it's so thick.

[Perry Romanowski]

I mean, if the water's coming out, I guess if it's warmer, you could shake. It's gonna reduce the viscosity. You could shake it up.

[Valerie George]

But yeah, yeah. So I think, you know, just in general, like, what makes a product bad or how do you know when a product shouldn't be used? I mean, it really is just like the color, odor, appearance. If you don't have the equipment or knowledge of the formula or what it should be looking like. I mean, when in doubt, throw it out, I guess. But typically when a product is unsafe to use, it's usually unsafe from a bacterial perspective or micro perspective. And so that you would smell it would have or maybe a different color or really color change, a really strange appearance. Like you would know there was something going on with it. But if it's just like instability because the formula is not super robust, I would say you could probably mix it back together and it's okay. But if you notice a performance difference, I would just toss it. And also too, let the brand know.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. And the other thing is, when you're storing this product, you might want to store it in a cooler place. Don't put it in like your window where it's going to get heated up and cooled down.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Dark and cool.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, our next question comes to us from Lisa. She says, hi, Perry and Val. I've tried to understand the efficacy of retinols versus Retin A or tretinoin. My understanding is that retinoic acid is quicker, more powerful because it's already in the chemical form required by the skin to begin helping with cell turnover and collagen production. On the other hand, retinol requires some oxidation process, so the results are slower to process and appear. But my question is, are the lasting results from each of these products comparable? I've been using a Retinol product Shani Darden Retinol reform but recently switched to a 0.1% tretinoin. Obagi.

[Valerie George]

Obagi.

[Perry Romanowski]

Obagi. Okay, there we go. I am in the beginning titration phase for the Retin A and my skin is expectedly a little irritated. Though I'm using the correct amount. I know this is a common experience for the first 12 weeks anyway. Is it worth it for me to stick it out on the Retin A assuming my skin acclimates because the results are longer lasting or more permanent or. Or would my retinol results be just the same in the end? Thank you so much and I appreciate you answering the question.

[Valerie George]

Do you know a lot about retinol versus retinoic acid, Perry?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I think she is correct in that for retinol to work, it needs to oxidize into retinoic acid and then that's what's actually working. And so she is correct. Tretinoin is already retinoic acid. And so you get a direct impact more frequently. And that's why it's actually a prescription drug rather than retinol, which isn't exactly.

[Valerie George]

I mean, retinol is still biologically active. It just has to be converted to retinoic acid once it's inside the skin. And so the challenge is you have to hope that all of it gets converted. So even if you're using the same percentage or maybe even double the percentage of retinol versus retinoic acid, you may not necessarily be getting the same biologically active amount of material in the skin because you have to rely on this conversion process to happen. Now, I think the advantage of retinol is that it's efficacious. Not as efficacious as tretinoin. As Perry mentioned, tretinoin is a prescription and it's very effective within the skin with resolving hyperpigmentation, wrinkles, you know, but of course, acne. But I think the advantage of retinol, while it's not as active, let's say, or as as efficacious as, you know, similar parts, is that it's more tolerable to skin. I think tretinoin has a lot of side effects. People can be very irritated by it. But if you're using it for anti aging, maybe you don't need the tretinoin. Maybe retinol would be just fine for you if you can tolerate, you know, the lesser side effects of it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I mean, if you're looking for results that noticeable results, and you can get used to the irritation or your skin gets acclimated to it. I think tretinoin is going to give you the better results.

[Valerie George]

It's the gold standard. It's what is tested against. Right. When we're looking at, we talked about raw material efficacy at the beginning. It's, I mean, it really works. It's really efficacious at the lowest use levels. But it's not skin friendly per se.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, Exactly. But I mean, that's also the thing is retinol could give you some benefits that you might notice too. I mean, the reality is that's not gonna make anybody's wrinkles completely disappear. So if some, if, say tretinoin makes the wrinkles disappear, you know, 50% and the retinol makes them disappear 30%, you might not even notice the differences there. And so that might be the better option. So your skin isn't as irritated. You're not damaging your skin barrier either.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. And in terms of length of results, I feel like it is something you have to continue using to see results because what you're battling is, for example, let's say you're using it for acne. Acne could come back. So it's something you may have to stay on hyperpigmentation. We're constantly exposed to ultraviolet light, visible light. Hyperpigmentation is just going to come back. So you need to keep combating it. Also, retinol makes your skin a little bit, and I mean the retinoids in general, not just retinol versus tretinoin, it makes your skin a little bit thicker, which is, you know, really great. As you're aging, you need to keep using it for that growth rate to keep up. So I don't, I haven't seen any studies per se that say, oh, well, you get one week longer effects than in one versus the other. I, you know, that I don't know. But I would say it's more so about, are you happy with the results you were getting on retinol or if you're not happy and you need something more, go to the retinoic acid and can you put up with it? I think that's really the question. And without knowing, I don't want to say how bad your skin is, but you know, what you think of your skin and how much more efficacy you need? It's really hard to say.

[Perry Romanowski]

And for both of these things, though, these are not permanent changes. Once you stop using either of them, your skin is going to kind of revert back to how it naturally was because you're still getting sun Damage just over time. Still, free radicals, naturally produced by your body, are going to degrade some of your DNA and your cells, and you're not going to produce as much collagen. It just happens. This just kind of slows down aging. And whether one slows down aging for a little longer than the other one, you probably can't tell the difference.

[Valerie George]

I can't use either, so.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, no.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's a rosacea problem.

[Perry Romanowski]

I don't use either either, but, you know, I don't use anything.

[Valerie George]

And it's annoying how, like, good your skin looks too.

[Perry Romanowski]

My wife did once give me a hyaluronic acid thing, which I used a couple times, but it just seems like so much extra work.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness. Well, our next question comes to us from Lorena, a familiar name. Hi, Valerie and Perry. I've been using Pantene volume, and I'm liking it a lot. My hair feels clean and light. I have a new hairdresser. When I told her what I use, she told me that Pantene is not good for my bleached hair because it will strip it. She tried to sell me one called Volu from Daviness, which is quite expensive. Do you guys think this is true based on the ingredient comparison? If so, would the more expensive one clean as well? Pantene is on the top of the ingredient list I'm providing. Thank you.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Oh, boy. Well, new hairdresser she's got. She's gotta make a sale if she can.

[Valerie George]

Well, yeah, I think it's a. I don't want to say it's a myth, but it's a pervasive thought in the salon professional industry that Pantene is terrible for hair. And we've been combating this for a long time, and it's just really not true. I mean, the ingredients in Pantene are no different than ingredients in other types of shampoo type products.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Products.

[Valerie George]

And yeah, the Devin S product is a little different because it's sulfate free. And so I actually think. And by the way, I like Davines products. I bought them, I use them. They have great fragrances. I like the minimal packaging.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wait, it's not Divines? No, that's what I would have called it.

[Valerie George]

Well, you're going to Italy. You're gonna have to practice saying it. It's an Italian brand, so they're really great. But it's just. It's not that it's better for your hair, it's just different. I think they're probably lesser cleansing than a, you know, Pantene type product. You know, I find that when I was using Davines more routinely, I would have to like switch up my shampoo to a sulfated shampoo to get a lot of the residue off the hair. They do use sodium lauroyl, methyl isethionate, which to me can leave a coating on the hair, which is not necessarily liked by people.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Oh, and they have your favorite. The glucosides are in there too.

[Valerie George]

Oh, yeah. I just. I'm sorry, guys. I don't like decyl glucoside for hair, especially fine hair. Anyway, we won't go into it because I'm gonna get very upset.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, as far as this stripping your bleached hair, I'm surprised to hear someone say Pantene is stripping because Pantene is like a moisturizing shampoo. It's practically a two in one. In fact, it is a two in one shampoo. So it's the opposite of stripping.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. It has panthenylethyl ether, which is known, and panthenol, which are two pro vitamin B5 derivatives, whatever they tout, but they actually do penetrate the hair and also coat the hair to leave it feeling conditioned to give it improved elasticity and bounce. So, you know, it's interesting though.

[Perry Romanowski]

This. I know, but this ingredient list that she sent doesn't have the standard dimethicone in it that you get from most Pantene versions. So this must might be a more cleansing version than the typical one because I don't see any beyond the panthenol and panthylethyl ether. I don't see any polymeric polymers, for example. Cationic polymers.

[Valerie George]

Well, this is for volumizing. So I bet you they didn't want to weigh the hair down.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, that's probably it. And if you look at the Davines. Davines, if you look at it, it has. It does have that guar in it. And so one strategy when you're putting together volumizing shampoo is to put a cationic polymer in there. It's going to theoretically coat the hair and then ionically it'll push hairs apart, the fibers apart more. That's the theory.

[Valerie George]

So it's not the high levels of iron, calcium, and vitamins A, B and C from the Caprana turnip extract.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, the Caprana turnip extract is just what we call claims ingredients. You put a drop in there so your marketing people have something to talk about it, but it's doing nothing in there.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. So bottom line, Lorena, I don't think you have to worry that you need to buy this expensive shampoo, which, by the way, I'm sure is a great shampoo. It's just going to be very different from the Pantene. You don't have to worry that that's what you need to do. If you're really liking the Pantene because of how clean and light it makes your hair feel, keep using it.

[Perry Romanowski]

For sure. Yeah. People do not need to spend a ton on their shampoos, especially maybe more on your conditioner. But shampoos.

[Valerie George]

Well, I'll tell you one story. We posted an Instagram post based on one of the listener questions that came in, like, hey, do I need to be using this shampoo and conditioner duo? And we talked about how, you know, as a brand, you can't just develop a conditioner. The marketing people also make you make a shampoo that goes next to it. And. And a couple people have said ever. You know, they. Well, one person said it, but I feel like another person might be thinking it. But one person was just like, hey, I started using Pantene because of the show, and I love it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh. Oh, nice. Yeah, there you go. Well, and you know what? P and G has never given us a scent.

[Valerie George]

Well, I did tell you one time back when the TikTok was hitting Pantene hard with a coating left on hair, and it turns out stylists were just scraping off cuticles. But anyway, Pantene had reached out and said, hey, would you create educational content for us to, like, kind of combat this myth? And we'll pay you. And there was a couple other science communicators who did. Did take the money, and they did that, but I literally told them, like, no, I'll do it for free.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

Like, you don't need to pay me. Like, I'll just. I'll create something and. And fight it for you. And they sure. It needed to be a paid job.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, that's. That you see that when you take. When you take money from these brands, even if you're not endorsing them, you're. You are kind of endorsing them, you know.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Even if you're fighting the good fight. And that's why I was like, no, I mean, you don't need to pay me to say that. It's the truth. I'll just do it. And, you know, probably a legal thing. Probably their lawyers, you know, probably. Yeah. Money had to change hands.

[Perry Romanowski]

They. They put together a good product. All right, let's move to the Next one. This one comes to us from Rita. Hey, beauty brains, thank you for making your podcast. They are very helpful and educational for consumers. I'd like to ask, since we apply treatment and moisturizers to our face and body, can some of the same products be used on my scalp? I've been using the Hadalabo toner on my scalp. It gets slightly oil by the end of the day. And I shampoo daily because I live in a hot and humid climate to hydrate. Wonder if that's okay. And she includes the ingredient list, which looks like water, butylene glycol, glycerin. So pretty, pretty standard stuff that you would put on your skin, but also on your hair. So what do you say, Valerie? Is it okay to put this on your scalp?

[Valerie George]

Well, your scalp is skin. And this is one of the reasons I hate the terminology skinification of blank. Because first it was skin vacation of hair, and then, yes, guys, people in the beauty industry were saying skinification of scalp. And I would be like, first of all, your scalp is skin, so why are we skinifying it? But secondly, actually has very different needs. And I went to California last month. I do a talk on scalp care because I think a lot of brands are getting it wrong. Yes, your scalp is skin, but it needs very different things from scalp on your body. And surprise, it actually needs very little. A lot of people think they have a scalp problem, and they don't. I won't get into that on the show, but from a formulation perspective, I think a lot of stuff is put into scalp care products that are actually detrimental to scalp health. And just because people think it's good for your face on your skin, oh, let me put it on my scalp and vice versa. But I think this formula is actually perfect for scalp. It doesn't have any of the things that I think violate, you know, scalp health principles. Like, for example, your scalp doesn't need tons of exfoliating acids. It doesn't need triglycerides, you know, which I won't go into the science on that right now, but I think from a humectant perspective, with the butylene glycol, the glycerin, the hyaluronic acid derivatives, I think there's three in here.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

For a scalp hydration perspective, this is pretty good. It's a very simple formula. You don't need much more.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I think this one's perfectly fine to use on your hair and your scalp, but I think in general, any skin care product could probably theoretically be used on your head. Although, like you said, you want to stay away from, like, the exfoliator stuff, because that could. I suppose that could damage your hair fibers a bit more.

[Valerie George]

Well, two, your scalp doesn't need increased turnover. Your scalp is happy where it is. And also your scalp is up to 8 millimeters thick in certain parts. And it's actually on it, I think on average 8 millimeters thick, sometimes thicker. So nothing's penetrating. Everything you're gonna do is surface level. And if you have a flaky skin or dandruff, increasing scalp turnover with exfoliating acids is like the last thing you need.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, it is penetrating the scalp is the knowledge that we give.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. And on LinkedIn, I post because another company posted about skinification of scalp or whatever.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Or no skinification of fragrance. And I was like, when are we going to stop, people? And someone actually said, hey, I attended your scalp talk and I really enjoyed it because in. In retrospect, you wouldn't take something for your scalp and put it on your face. So why would you put. Well, I mean, maybe Perry would, you know, so how would you take something for your face and put it on your scalp? But I think this formula is perfectly fine to do that again, because it's pretty much just water and humectants. And if that's helping you with the oiliness, go do it.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, I have to say there is this weird psychological effect that happens when a product is in a bottle and it says it's for a certain spot, and it kind of makes you think it's not for anywhere else. I remember when body washes were just becoming a thing and we just took the VO5 shampoo, change it a tiny bit, and called it a body wash. People actually wouldn't want to put it on their hair.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Like, oh, no, this is body wash. Like, it's the same. It just. So there is a psychological effect, but we try to make chemicals or we try to use chemicals in cosmetics that are safe for both hair and skin.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay, our next question comes to us from Paula.

[Valerie George]

Hi, Beauty Brains. I loved your podcast where you discussed the different types of vitamin C. I want to mix ascorbic acid with water and apply it on my skin. Sorry, I had to process that for a second.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

Would it be okay to use a stainless steel spray spoon to do this? I read somewhere that you're not meant to use metal, but if I mix it fresh every time, would it be much of an issue? Many thanks, Paula.

[Perry Romanowski]

So people are mixing stuff at home. Like, where do you get, where do you get ascorbic acid? Like, do you just get like a little powder of it?

[Valerie George]

Oh, it's a food grade material. You can get it from the Internet if it's USP grade, FCC grade. Yeah, very accessible.

[Perry Romanowski]

But you can't go to the local grocery store and say, hey, you might.

[Valerie George]

Be able to in the baking section. Depends on how big the baking section is.

[Perry Romanowski]

So you put ascorbic acid in baking.

[Valerie George]

Maybe that's where I go to check and see if there's always kind of odd stuff there. You can get a lot of little chemical, not chemicals, but you know, food chemical type stuff to mix in. Yeah. Now I don't know, but so this.

[Perry Romanowski]

Question, I don't know where the Internet came up with this idea that stainless steel is bad. But stainless steel, we use that in manufacturing stuff because it's pretty resistant to any kind of corrosion. And so that would be the main concern here about your ascorbic acid. And so if you're mixing it fresh, seem to be stainless steel would be perfectly fine to use. Now if you're using something like iron or copper, those things might be catalyzing some sort of oxidation problem of the vitamin C. But stainless steel. Yeah, I don't think there should be a problem there.

[Valerie George]

Well, it depends on the quality of stainless steel. And I, you know, I work on products that actually are very sensitive to metal exposure. Exposure. And you would be surprised how many chemists use lab equipment that's stainless steel. But they never take care of it. So in production, your stainless steel is taken care of. You passivate it routinely if you're on top of things or hopefully the manufacturing facility is aware that once in a while you should do preventative maintenance and retreat your stainless steel to protect it and not contribute metals to the product. But a lot of chemists don't. And so they'll get metals put into product over time. But this is stuff that's used all day, every day. It has a lot of different chemical exposure. And so, yeah, might put a little metal ion here or there into stuff. And so with proper care you can negate that. My only concern is at home. I don't know that the spoons people are using are necessarily stainless steel or haven't been abused or mistreated or really old. And so while it shouldn't be an issue if it really, truly were stainless steel, you never know what people have at their house.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's true. I mean, you know, to better be safe than sorry. Just like a plastic spoon. And that's Gonna avoid the kind of ion exchange problem that you might get with the metal stuff now.

[Valerie George]

But if you're using the ascorbic acid and storing it, I would actually say the metal spoon doesn't matter, because even if you had the most top equipment, maybe you weren't using stainless steel, you were using something else. Your ascorbic acid is going to oxidize pretty much immediately anyway, just from oxygen exposure to the air. So it's kind of a silly thing to worry about even if you were storing it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Now, if you do make this and you want to get some bang for your buck, you better use that stuff, like, right away, because it's going to oxidize pretty quickly.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. And then, Paula, the other thing is, I would just ask you get some PH strips that are designed to be in the ultra low PH range. You don't want to get any old ph strips that are like ph1 to 14. You want to get tailored ones that are like, very fine tuned for very low ranges. Because I would be concerned that your ph may be too low and maybe harming your skin. I know ascorbic acid needs a very low pH below 3.5 to be best optimally absorbed into skin and to be effective. But you don't want to put something on your skin that's like a PH of one either. Right. So just be safe.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, be safe out there. All right, looks like we have time for one more question. A bonus question comes to us from Morgan. Morgan says, hey, are salt sprays for hair safe to use? What makes them work the way they do? And are. Is there any kind of similar alternative? I mean, you could dunk your head in the ocean, right?

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's your salt spray.

[Valerie George]

Well, people love post beach hair because it has all the salt in it. But ocean water has an extremely high pH, and so I think over time that can be bad for your hair. But a salt spray like you would get from a hair brand, I think is actually perfectly safe to use and really great. So how they work is essentially, you have water and you dissolve a salt in it. Not usually sodium chloride, but it's usually magnesium sulfate, a really big crusty salt.

[Perry Romanowski]

That dissolves just as a little timeout, that was another big thing. At the suppliers day, magnesium was everywhere.

[Valerie George]

You know, that's one of the trends I predicted a year ago. And it comes from the home crafter market, Perry. Because I go to these shows where people make their own products. And in the DIY community, magnesium use has been on the rise for a couple years. So I think it's really people capitalizing on what the indie market is doing.

[Perry Romanowski]

That is not surprising there. Okay, back to how these salt sprays work.

[Valerie George]

Okay, so you want to take a big salt that's really big and crusty when it's a crystal, like magnesium sulfate. So the salt is in the water and it stays dissolved. But once you spritz it out onto the hair, the water evaporates and you're left with this big crusty salt. Salt that has essentially recrystallized on your hair fiber in a thin layer. It's not super crunchy or anything.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, because wouldn't it just cause like a whiteness to your hair or something?

[Valerie George]

Well, it's not that much. I mean, it could depending on how dark your hair is or how much salt is present. But for the most part, we're not talking a ton of salt here for this effect. But the salt will recrystallize and your hair will stay in the shape that it was when it was wet because it has kind of locked the style into place. And then when you re wash the hair, you're washing the salt away and your hair goes back to being normal. So it's a pretty innocent effect. It's a very topical effect. The ph of these products aren't high like ocean water usually.

[Perry Romanowski]

Now, would you call this a bond builder?

[Valerie George]

Oh, well, the salts are rebonding in their ionic bonds.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, that's exactly. They are.

[Valerie George]

Oh, look at that. Free marketing idea for anyone who's listening. So I think they're actually really great products. They're really harmless. You know, sometimes people get worried that salts can impact the proteins on the hair. But I have asked a lot about this in the keratin circles of people who actually research keratin full time in hair products. And they're always like salt, carrot. What? Who are you? Because there's this craze of like salt shampoos and stuff like that. Guys, it's the silliest thing. You don't have to worry about salt with your hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

THEY LAUGH for the most part. I mean, salt in a rinse off product is just silly. It just, it rinses right out. These salt sprays don't rinse right out because you don't rinse them off. So that's where they can have an effect. But if you.

[Valerie George]

It's a totally topical effect though, because you're using like a really large crystally salt that doesn't want to penetrate the hair, it wants to recrystallize with its.

[Perry Romanowski]

Exactly but you don't. People do not have to worry about salt damaging their hair from a shampoo or a conditioner. It's just not even a thought. And for these salt sprays, like she said, it's topical. It's not penetrating.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Now, the only way you could get some damage is if you try to brush it out. I mean, this really is, like, not something you would want to manipulate the hair after because you've locked the hair into a stiff. You know, stiff is kind of a strong word, but basically the hair is in a new shape, and you kind of locked it in place with this salt. Any brushing would cause mechanical stress on your hair fiber. So this is something that, like, you want to do and, like, let your hair just do what it needs to do.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah. Speaking of needs to do, I need to go cut my grass before I head out on my trip.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna miss you, Perry. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna try to work up the courage to do a solo episode.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, well, maybe you could just do, like, one question, a deep dive on a single question.

[Valerie George]

Maybe I'll have the strength to do that. Well, thanks for listening, everyone.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hey, if you get a chance, can you head over to Spotify or Apple Podcasts and leave us a review that's gonna help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer? Speaking of questions. Oh, you go ahead.

[Valerie George]

Speaking of questions, if you have a question. We love other voices of real humans on the show. Just record it on your smartphone and email it to the beautybrains.beautybrainsmail.com or use the form in the show notes at the bottom of the episode.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of the beauty brains, we are also on Patreon, and if you appreciate that we're giving you an unbiased opinion, it's because we can do so, because we don't take advertising. But it does cost money to do the show. And so if you want to support the show, head over to. To head over to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. Your questions do get a higher priority there and you get a transcript of the show.

[Valerie George]

Also, follow us on our various social media accounts. On Instagram, we're at the Beautybrains 2018 on X. Worth the beauty brains. On Blue Sky. Worth the beauty brains. We have a Facebook page and a Tick tock.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, TikTok Tick tock.

[Valerie George]

Well, thanks again.

[Perry Romanowski]

I love the stuff we've been putting on there. Lately.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, the Instagram stuff has been really, really awesome.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah. Great.

[Valerie George]

I'm not biased or anything.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know what? I'm gonna start putting our shows on YouTube, but it's just gonna be just so people can listen through YouTube while.

[Valerie George]

They'Re cleaning the house or something. Yeah, I think that's a great idea.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. There you go.

[Valerie George]

Well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks, everyone. Kiss.