The Truth About Glycerin, Amlactin, and Beauty Ingredient Hype - episode 425

Summary

The Beauty Brains – Episode 425 (May 15, 2026)
The Truth About Glycerin, Amlactin, and Beauty Ingredient Hype

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Episode Overview

In Episode 425 of The Beauty Brains, cosmetic chemists Valerie George and Perry Romanowski take on listener questions about hot topics in cosmetic ingredients and industry practices. Centered around the science (and hype) of glycerin, Amlactin lotion, ingredient quality, and two-in-one shampoos, the episode mixes practical beauty advice, myth-busting, and fun industry anecdotes. Listeners are treated to evidence-based insights on what works, what doesn’t, and why marketing and regulatory headlines can often mislead consumers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Beauty News: EU Bans 15 Chemicals – Should You Worry?

[05:23 - 10:37]

• Valerie and Perry discuss a sensational New York Post article about the EU banning 15 chemicals in cosmetics—materials the US allegedly still permits.
• Fact-check: Most banned substances are not intentionally used in cosmetics; many are process residues or impurities.
• Quote, Perry: "Nobody uses these in cosmetics." [06:52]
• Discussion about impurities versus intentionally added ingredients, and how regulatory scare articles fuel consumer fear unnecessarily.
• Valerie: "The reality is none of these materials are intentionally added to cosmetic products. ... There may be an impurity threshold allowance depending on the chemistry." [09:54]

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2. Listener Question: Is Pure Glycerin Safe for Skin or Nails?

[10:55 - 20:18]

• Background: Lorena asks if using pure glycerin on skin/nails (especially toenails) is beneficial or potentially drying, referencing social media claims.
• Valerie and Perry clarify the myth that undiluted glycerin "dehydrates" skin. In reality, even a small amount of glycerin is sufficient, and more isn’t better—it just feels stickier.
• Valerie: "A handful of a percent works really well to attract water to the skin. I don't feel that using 100% would give you any benefit and it only feels gross." [16:07]
• Impurity concern: Glycerin can be contaminated with toxic impurities (e.g., diethylene glycol); it's safest to dilute and purchase from reputable suppliers.
• Tip for runners: A diluted glycerin lotion (possibly with panthenol) can help brittle toenails. Nails are surprisingly absorbent and flexible due to their water content.
• Memorable moment: Perry’s personal running and toenail anecdote adds humor and relatability.

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3. Can Salon Professionals Attend Cosmetic Chemistry Courses?

[20:31 - 24:06]

• Question: Amanda asks if non-chemist, introverted salon professionals can attend Valerie’s cosmetic chemist course, and what to expect.
• Valerie reassures that her classes welcome everyone regardless of chemistry background, with minimal required participation.
• Valerie: "You don't have to be a chemist to take the class ... There's no dress requirement, and the only interaction really will just be at lunchtime." [23:30]
• The goal is inclusivity and practical product knowledge.

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4. Why Do Some Amlactin Lotions Smell Less Than Others?

[24:10 - 27:56]

• Question: Misty notes older Amlactin lotions had a strong smell, but recent versions don’t. Why, if both contain 12% ammonium lactate?
• Valerie and Perry compare old/new ingredient lists. Noted changes:
  • Different preservative systems
  • Switch in emulsifiers (Steareth-21 to cetearyl alcohol)
  • Addition of phenoxyethanol, which can mask or balance odors
• Valerie: "It wasn't an instantaneous thing. It was like as I was driving to work... a little breeze of my own body hit my face." [25:52]
• Better formulation techniques and pH tweaks likely mitigate the ammonia smell.

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5. Two-in-One Shampoos: Pantene “Thickening” and Modern Equivalents

[28:23 - 35:16]

• Question: Is there a modern equivalent to the old Pantene Thickening Shampoo, famous for detangling and eliminating the need for conditioner?
• Perry shares insights from his years formulating for Tresemme and the industry:
  • Pantene’s shampoo “chassis” (base formula) has changed very little since 1999.
  • The legendary Pantene formula is essentially the technology from classic Pert Plus two-in-one shampoo.
• Perry: "The ingredient list of Pantene then is the same almost identically as the ingredient list ... right now." [31:11]
• Valerie notes some small updates and suggests alternatives (Paul Mitchell Tea Tree Lemon Sage Thickening Shampoo). Modern formulations may have added conditioning agents/lipids for an updated feel.

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6. Ingredient Quality & Product Sensitivities

[35:58 - 42:50]

• Question: Anna experiences reactions with many lip products and wonders if ingredient quality varies between brands.
• Valerie explains that even similar ingredient lists can create very different product feels and outcomes due to ratios and supplier quality. Small differences in waxes and emollients matter for lip balms.
• The biggest culprits in irritation are fragrances/flavors, but ingredient grade, supplier reliability, and the company’s quality control procedures also play roles.
• Valerie: "It's hard buying materials even as a chemist, because you have to have experience with knowing what a good quality shea butter is versus not a good quality shea butter." [40:23]
• Big brands usually have stricter controls, while small brands (especially those using contract manufacturers) may be more variable.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Valerie (on social media “dermfluencers”): "I just take anything she says with a pure entertainment grain of salt." [11:52]
• Perry (on red light therapy gadgets): "People wasting their money on this...you'll use it once or twice, it'll be a pain, and you'll never use it again." [14:41]
• Valerie (on formulation): "Lip balm is a very tough formulation category... tiny changes in ratios can make a huge difference." [36:33]
• Perry (on Pantene nostalgia): "When I first started... the number one shampoo was Pert Plus. And you know what happened to that formula? It went into Pantene!" [32:21]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Beauty news/regulatory bans: [05:23 - 10:37]
• Glycerin for skin and nails: [10:55 - 20:18]
• Cosmetic chemistry course info: [20:31 - 24:06]
• Amlactin odor changes: [24:10 - 27:56]
• Two-in-one shampoos/Pantene history: [28:23 - 35:16]
• Ingredient quality variation: [35:58 - 42:50]

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Closing Tone

Valerie and Perry keep things fun, accessible, and science-forward. They repeatedly stress the importance of not falling for marketing hype, doing your own ingredient research, and trusting products from reputable sources. The episode is packed with little-known industry tidbits and actionable tips for listeners curious about what’s really inside their beauty products.

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For more science-based answers to beauty product questions, keep listening—or, as Valerie says, “Be brainy about your beauty!”

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Valerie and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an inside look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 425. I'm your host, Valerie George and with me today is Perry Romanowski. Hi, Perry.

[B]

Hello, Valerie. Great to see you. As always.

[A]

Great to see you. On today's show, we're going to cover a lot of questions including is it a good idea to put pure glycerin on skin? Can a salon professional attend a cosmetic chemist course? Why don't all amlactin lotions smell bad? Is there a good two in one shampoo on the market? And finally, are there differences in ingredient quality between brands? But first, that chit chat.

[B]

Valerie, guess what I did?

[A]

You didn't complete your joggling streak. It's broken.

[B]

No, no, I still have the joggling streak going. Day 6,382 today. But no, no, here's what I did. Microneedling. Can you believe it?

[A]

You went micro needling.

[B]

Well, no, no, actually I'm taking care of these kittens and the kittens, they, when I'm feeding them, they just will run up my pants.

[A]

Oh gosh.

[B]

And they just get their nails in my pants and just plop. So if you look at my legs, they look like they have all these little puncture wounds in it. And it looks like I've been doing micro needling.

[A]

I've got so excited for a second and now I'm deflated.

[B]

I mean, it looks, it looks really bad. In fact, you know what? For patrons, I'm going to share the little video I did of the kittens. I, I do this, I do actually been doing TikTok of porch kitties. And so there's a little video I did, a short one which showed the injuries that these little kittens are causing me. But they are so darn cute.

[A]

I bet you those injuries are worse than actual micro needling injuries. Because microneedling, your face gets really bright red, you get some downtime, but you don't get long lasting wounds.

[B]

I imagine these, the little kitten nails, which are going through jeans, by the way, I imagine they must puncture much deeper than a micro needle. Right. Microneedles don't puncture deep enough to injure you. Right.

[A]

Well, it's like a little mini injury. I would guess that the nails are actually much larger than the microneedling implements.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

And this is what you're feeling.

[B]

That's probably it.

[A]

But they didn't do your face. What you need is to have them do your face and then couple it with a serum.

[B]

Yeah, that sounds like a lot of work.

[A]

Oh, gosh. Well, I'm excited to see you in a couple weeks in person. When's the last time we saw you in New York?

[B]

Oh, it must have been last. Probably December. In New York?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or was it. Yeah, it was New York.

[A]

Yeah. New York again. But, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's an ingredient show. I just went to one in Europe, but this one's some of the same stuff, a little bit different. But, yeah, I have a lot of meetings scheduled and I'm ready to go.

[B]

Fun. Well, we'll schedule a little meetup ourselves on Tuesday the 19th.

[A]

I'm looking forward to it.

[B]

Actually, Valerie, you know, I do this little project where I take pictures of the number 44 wherever I see it, because 44 is my favorite number.

[A]

That's right. It's also your birth date, 44.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's right. But one of our patron Zach sent, he sends me in these articles that he sees wherever he sees, like, the number 44.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Come up randomly in an article and, you know, because when I was formulating, I used to put 44 in my formula somewhere, but. But he was reading this astrophysics thing about solar and stellar astrophysics.

[A]

Wow, look at you. I wonder what you do for a living. Pretty impressive. I was reading the title of the article and I was like, I. I literally don't know what this is about.

[B]

Yeah, this Nova Aquale, it faded by 0.44 mags per centuries. So there you go. 0.44 is there. It's. It's a brightness average, so.

[A]

Oh, well, that's really.

[B]

Yeah. Well, if any of our listeners out there see other 44s in a while, I always love to see them and collect them.

[A]

I'll keep that in mind as well, because I. I mean, I know your number's 44, but I've never really paid much attention to it. I mean, I have a favorite number, but.

[B]

What's your favorite number?

[A]

My favorite number is 12.

[B]

12.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because it's one less than 13 or it's a dozen. Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff about 12.

[A]

Well, it's just always the number that's come up in my life and. And, oh, yeah, I like it. So. I think I like the comfort of it. It's just a familiar number for me.

[B]

Sure. I always liked that it was three times four.

[A]

It's like it has a lot of divisibilities. It's also a dozen. Not a baker's dozen, but a dozen.

[B]

All right, speaking of dozens, let's head

[A]

over to beauty news.

[B]

Valerie, I saw this article in the New York Post. I don't think the New York Post is knowing it for its journalism, is it?

[A]

Well, I. You know, I actually thought it used to be, like, a newspaper, and I didn't realize it's actually kind of like. It reminds me of the Daily Mail. Like, I thought the Daily Mail was a legitimate newspaper, and then I actually think it's just like US Weekly. It's just like, celebrity news and, like, you know, tabloid fodder. It doesn't feel like a newspaper.

[B]

Right. It's, like, just bordering on. Like, the National Enquirer.

[A]

Yeah, but was it always like that, or is it just like. That's the kind of stuff people want to see online nowadays. Because the Daily Mail, I used to read serious articles on there, and now it's just, like, trash about the royals.

[B]

I think the New York Post has sort of gone more that way, but it's always been sort of the, you know, I don't know, the unfortunate stepchild of, like, the New York Times.

[A]

Yeah. Not like a real news.

[B]

The paper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Right.

[A]

All right, well, so that will explain the article.

[B]

Anyway, they had this article with the headline, the EU is banning 15 chemicals in cosmetics starting next week, but they're still allowed in the U.S. dun, dun, dun. And I'm reading through this, and you know what I noticed about these chemicals?

[A]

Like, you're upset that they're gonna go,

[B]

no, I don't care. Nobody uses these in cosmetics.

[A]

Well, what kind of stuff? Is it on the list?

[B]

Okay, I'll just go through some of this list, and you tell me what, have you used it or where you use it. So acetone oxime, that is not an

[A]

ingredient, but probably a residual or a reagent in chemical reaction.

[B]

Right, Right. So that's not something you'd put in a cosmetic.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Or at least on purpose, they had silver nano. Silver and massive silver, so.

[A]

Oh, well, that's interesting, because silver. But silver can be used especially in skin care. But what's interesting is that silver, massive and silver nano, there's actually regular silver, which was restricted, and then I think maybe banned, and now it's. They reverse the regular silver offering, saying, actually, it's okay. Someone submitted a safety report, and now you can use it, but it's still restricted. So I'm not surprised to see silver nano. But that wouldn't be like an intentional additive or even silver massive. I think this is just a clarification on the different molecular weights that they come in.

[B]

But the ones I've heard is like, people use colloidal silver.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Right, but, but even that, you know, I never used it really. It's like not a really reliable preservative for most things. All right, we'll go through some of these quickly. Trimethylborate? Nah, I never use it. But I think it's again, that's like a precursor to other ingredients.

[A]

No, no. And then 1,4 dichloro 2 nitrobenzene is a hair color inter. It wouldn't be actually used as a hair colorant. It's a reagent in the manufacturing process.

[B]

And methylenediacrylamide used for forming gels.

[A]

No one's adding that. But that sounds like a monomer used in a polymer reaction. So again, the monomer is not expected to be present.

[B]

Right, Exactly. I'm trying to look at any of these formic acid.

[A]

Formic acid is not intentionally added. But again, it could be used as a reagent in different chemical syntheses, like, I know, sometimes hair polymers or even hair colorants. Yeah, but again, you wouldn't find it in a finished product.

[B]

Exactly. And I think so going through all 15 of these, I don't see any of these that I've ever used in a product or that you're ever going to normally. Fine. Now they quote their expert here from guess where?

[A]

The Environmental.

[B]

Environmental Working Group. Yeah, of course. And they're all about telling us how the US is so much more unsafe than the eu. But reality is, the products are pretty much the same in the EU and US in terms of safety.

[A]

Exactly. And even though the EU requires review of a safety assessor, pre market approval, all that's done on paper. And you could submit whatever you wanted to on paper to someone for approval. I've seen it be done. So if you really wanted to create something unsafe in the eu, you could. It's not a perfect system. And the reality is none of these materials are intentionally added to cosmetic products. And you may also find these ingredients as impurities in other ingredients. And the impurities may not necessarily be banned. So if you read the EU restriction very closely, there may be an impurity threshold allowance depending on the chemistry of the raw material that you're adding. And that's certainly the case with hair color.

[B]

Yeah. So this is another like, fear mongering thing to make people a little less sure about their products when there's really nothing to worry about.

[A]

Well, how about we make people more sure of their beauty products and answer some beauty science questions?

[B]

All right,

[A]

our first question comes to us from from Lorena, a patron on Patreon. Hi Valerie and Perry. I wanted to ask a follow up question regarding glycerin. There is a dermatologist on YouTube and TikTok and I think she's reasonable. Anyway, recently she did a post about using shake glycerin for skin and nails. I'm particularly interested in the toenail part since I run my toenails are beaten up for the summertime sandals. It was interesting to see the comment section talking about how pure glycerin would totally dehydrate you if you used it undiluted. Have you ever heard of pure glycerin for skin or nails? What would be a downside other than the nasty feel? Thanks. I'm including the video. Although I don't even know if you guys have TikTok. It's funny how I'm pretty much in it for the comments, lol.

[B]

Well, we do have TikTok, although for beauty brands I have not posted anything yet, but I do post for another site. I do Chemist Corner and I do of course Porch Kitty, which is where I feed Porch Kitty.

[A]

Well, I only have a TikTok because my mom sends me tiktoks and I watch them when she sends me to them through text message. But sure, I am aware who this dermatologist is and I don't mean to be, but I think she says a lot of things that aren't factually correct. And she's a huge believer in red light therapy for scalp growth. And it turns out she's also paid by the companies that pay her to say that. So I just, you know, I just take anything she says with a pure entertainment grain of salt.

[B]

Yeah, I actually had never seen her before and then I started. She started popping up on like my Facebook feed and my like, I don't know, my other feeds and it was all about this red light mask. Actually it was her. And then I just saw this red light mask everywhere. Maybe I clicked on something and it just. I got inundated with this. But I'm just. That red light mask stuff really kind of bugs me because what. Maybe, maybe going to like a dermatologist or a professional who has like professional grade stuff is gonna. These masks will help people. Maybe I'm a little skeptical even of that.

[A]

I'm completely skeptical of it.

[B]

Okay. I mean it seems Reasonable. That intensities of light can impact your skin in some ways.

[A]

I believe that.

[B]

I don't know. Right, right. So do these red light therapies help much or whatever? I don't know.

[A]

That's what I don't believe.

[B]

Right, right. But these masks that people buy for hundreds of dollars and use them at home, it's like those aren't gonna work. And just because something is FDA approved doesn't mean it works. It just means it's safe to use.

[A]

Approved not to hurt you.

[B]

Right? It's approved not to hurt you. So I just see people wasting their money on this. You know what else I saw was those. Now that. Now they got these space caps where people are just walking around doing their dishes wearing these red laser caps on their hair. Cause they say it's gonna regrow your hair.

[A]

So that's the initial helmet I've seen for many years, going back to the Consumer Electronics show, which I've been attending for, gosh, since maybe. I think 2018 was the first year that I went, or 2017. And the hats have been there. And all the dermatologists now are posting about it, their affiliate ads. I just don't believe that they help to regrow hair or the benefit that one would see is negligible. Like you would not see a benefit. That's how small it is. And that's the initial red light piece that this dermatologist on YouTube, TikTok has been promoting. And now I guess you've seen her with face masks, but I've always seen her with the hair masks for scalp.

[B]

I just. It's. To me, it's not just her. It's. I see lots of influence out there and it just. It's embarrassing to me. Because you know what? Even if it helped like a tiny bit, I know that as a consumer, you'll buy this thing, you'll use it once or twice, it'll be a pain, and you'll never use it again. It'll sit and waste money in your drawer and you'll forget about it. Because that's all these devices work that way. Because the effect that you get is not going to be immediately noticeable. And even if you wear it for like six months religiously, you don't remember what your skin looked like six months ago. And I don't know, they're just a complete waste of money. But I see these people touting them. It just seems. I feel bad for people who buy these things.

[A]

I feel bad for Lorena because we've totally derailed off the question, oh, you

[B]

know what we did. Let's get onto the glycerin part. All right, so in this video that she sent, this dermatologist says, oh, yeah, I like to use pure glycerin. And it's. It's fine to use and it's, you know, it's not going to dry anything out, and it's good. And that was interesting. Now, I know that on the Internet, you see people say that, oh, if you use more than 10% of glycerin on your skin, it's going to suck out all the water of your skin and then you're going to dry out your skin. That's not actually true.

[A]

No. But what I don't understand is why anyone would need to add more than 10% glycerin and leave it on their skin. Because even just, just a handful of a percent works really well to attract water to the skin. So I don't feel that using 100% would give you any benefit. And it only feels gross, as Lorena mentioned. Like, the downside is the feel. So I would just say, why. The other thing I would say is glycerin is a commodity in the cosmetics industry, but you have to be really careful where you get it because it's very easy to buy bad glycerin. And glycerin has an impurity in it called diethylene glycol and ethylene glycol. And the FDA requires manufacturers to test, at least on the drug side. It's absolutely required. It really should be done when you take incoming glycerin from your raw material supplier, because it's very easy to buy cheap glycerin that doesn't meet the impurity requirements. Diethylene glycol is irritating, it's toxic, and it's just, yeah, very easy to buy glycerin with a lot of junk in it. And when you get stuff on Amazon or Etsy, I'm an ingredient reseller myself, but we test for these things. And I'm not buying from really obscure suppliers that I don't know or have a history of purchasing and testing with. So if you're a consumer and you're just going to the store to get glycerin or something, some online shop, how do you know that it's not bad glycerin? You don't. And so for that reason, I still would recommend to dilute glycerin down to reduce the impurity exposure.

[B]

Right. Because even if it does have some impurities, if you do dilute it down. That is definitely going to reduce that chances there.

[A]

So, I mean, should Lorena be putting glycerin on her toes?

[B]

You know, I think it's probably fine. I would say dilute it. It's not going to make it less effective. If you dilute it, it will make it less sticky. Oh, you know what? I did notice she talked about being a runner. And, you know, I run every day. But I'm fortunate because my toenails never get bad.

[A]

Is that like a common thing? I obviously don't run.

[B]

Yeah, because when you run, you know, your toes are always jamming up against the front of your shoes for some people. And so for some people that can, like, really mess up their nails. And for Lorena, that seems to be the problem.

[A]

But in what way do they get messed up? Like bruised, Splintering.

[B]

Yeah, bruised. And they'll crack and. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, let me tell you a little bit about the nail plate. We just finished up our nail biology section in the course that I teach at University of California Extension. And essentially, your nail plate actually can take up a lot of water. And this is assuming you don't have nail polish or something that would block water on it just like your naked nail. And you actually.

[B]

Well, that's it. That's. That seems strange because nails to me seem just very dry.

[A]

Well, they actually have a lot of water in them to help them remain flexible because if they didn't have enough water, they would be too brittle and they would really crack. And that's why your nails tend to crack in the wintertime.

[B]

Well, you know what is interesting you say that because when I cut my nail, sometimes I'll just keep the nail just for a little while and then I'll find it. And then when I, like, bend it, it snaps right in half. But when you first cut it, it's really bendy.

[A]

Yes. Well, I'm, you know, I guess for this purpose, I'm glad you keep your nail clippings. But yes, I actually have noticed little

[B]

demo you can do for yourself when

[A]

you find an old nail on the floor. Yeah. So essentially, that's exactly what's happening. And not a whole lot gets in your nail bed, but water can get in. Some oils can get in depending on the polarity and the shape that they have. But another interesting ingredient that can get in is panthenol. And so maybe, Lorena, the answer. Panthenol, glycerin or pure glycerin. I think you can use a diluted glycerin on your nail and be okay, but maybe it's also finding a nice lotion that has a high amount of glycerin and maybe panthenol in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not glad we had this conversation, Perry, but I'm also glad we had this conversation.

[B]

We were all over the place. Thank you, Lorena. I hope that helps.

[A]

All right, well, let's move on to the next question.

[B]

All right, our next question comes to us from Amanda. Hi, Beauty Brains. I love your podcast so much, and I always learn something. My question is for Valerie. Recently you invited salon professionals to come to your May 18th continuing education course in New York City for cosmetic chemists. It sounds like my dream class, and I want to go, but I'm an introvert and scared. Will there be audience participation? What do I wear? Do I have to interact a lot, or can I just sit there and absorb and expand my mind? Thanks for both of you guys sharing all your wisdom transparently. Much love, Amanda. Valerie, you've got that hair class coming up that formulating hair care products. Yeah. Whether it was from follicle to formula.

[A]

Follicle to formula. Yeah. So the premise is we're going to cover a lot of things. Hair biology, skin biology, and skin biology, particularly in terms of scalp. But we'll have a little skin foundation. We'll talk about how to formulate really great shampoos and conditioners. We'll talk about what the consumer is looking for in a product, and particularly how the formulation meets or doesn't meet those consumer requirements. We'll do a Little Hair Color 101. We'll talk about how hair gets damaged. And it'll be, you don't have to be a chemist to take the class, because I'm aware that even cosmetic chemists taking the course, some of them may not have a strong background in chemistry because not every cosmetic chemist is a chemist per se.

[B]

Well, and also when you're studying chemistry and in a university setting, you don't really focus on specific applications like this. And in fact, when I was in college, I came into the industry and learned surfactants are this huge thing and colloidal solutions. When you're learning chemistry at a university, you don't really focus on that really much at all. It's a lot of information that you weren't exposed to even if you were a chemist.

[A]

Exactly. The course is really tailored towards people familiar with products, whether you're a formulator or whether you're someone who uses them routinely. And I actually have a lot of ingredient suppliers who plan to take the class that day. And they may just be salespeople. They may not even have a chemistry background. So the way in which I teach is really meant to be. Yes, chemistry will be involved because at the end of the day, we're talking about formulating, but you don't have to freak out if you don't really. No chemistry. I'm not going to force everyone to answer a question. I mean, I do like introductions because for myself as an instructor, I really like to understand the types of people I'm speaking to, so I can ensure that I'm making sure I can connect the information with them in a special way. It's a business casual setting, but you could totally come wearing jeans if you wanted to. There's no dress requirements. And the only interaction really will just

[B]

be, well, except that you have to be dressed.

[A]

Oh, yeah, you do have. Yes, no clothes, no service. Although, you know, if you showed up not wearing clothes, I just wouldn't look at you. But the only interaction really is at lunchtime. We'll have a group lunch, but other than that, you can just sit and absorb and expand your mind. And if you're too embarrassed to ask questions during the course, you can email me afterwards. But also, there's going to be a lot of other salon professionals there, and so you may be able to sit with them and connect because they're all at different stages in their cosmetic chemistry knowledge experience. So I wouldn't stress out.

[B]

Yeah, it should be right. It should be. Should be a great event.

[A]

Well, let's head to our next question from Misty. Hi, Beauty Brains. It's interesting you guys happen to have a question about amlactin in today's show. I'd used it years ago and remember not liking the smell and how it felt. I recently purchased it again after hearing it no longer had the smell. I'm not sure which version I used before, but the one I got this time is the Amazon Amlactin Daily Nourish lotion in the green bottle, not the intensive one in the blue bottle that was mentioned in this episode. Although I can't remember how it smelled before, there doesn't seem to be a distinct smell. My question is, how could they have gotten rid of the smell if it still contains 12% ammonium lactate? I'm including the current ingredients as well as the older ingredient listening listing I found online. Thanks for all you do, Misty.

[B]

All right, the old ingredient list looks a lot like the new ingredient list. It looks like they've changed up the preservative system,

[A]

they moved from potassium sorbate to phenoxyethanol and ethyl hexylglycerin.

[B]

That sounds safer. Good job. Although phenoxyethanol also will provide some odor, it has sort of like a rose odor to it.

[A]

I wonder if that's helping balance the smell out a little.

[B]

Right. That could impact the odor for sure.

[A]

I also noticed that they have, in the current ingredient list, cetearyl alcohol, and before, they only had Steereth 21. So the emulsifier system is also a little bit different.

[B]

Yeah. And that could impact the way that the molecule gets surrounded and encased in the micelles of the emulsion. And that could reduce the odor piece. Right.

[A]

Yeah. I'd also like to point out I also have used the green amlactin in the past, and that's actually the one where I kept running around. Like, the initial lotion didn't smell, but over time, I kept smelling the ammonia. So it wasn't an instantaneous thing. It was like as I was driving to work, or maybe when I was at work, I would move my head and get a fresh whiff, but I couldn't smell it all the time. It was only when, like, a little breeze of my own body hit my face.

[B]

Ah, interesting. So, yeah, it could just be that they're, like, homogenizing it more and so the it's dispersing better and it's not

[A]

getting entrapped a little bit better. Between the satal alcohol and the lack of Steereth 21, the new preservation system,

[B]

phenoxy ethanol could certainly impact that. Otherwise, it doesn't look like they have a fragrance in here either. Just formulating tricks could be it.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's definitely a possibility. The other thing I was thinking is the PH could be a little bit different. So maybe it's like before it was kind of borderline between, you know, turning into ammonia or not. Or maybe with people's different skin pH, when the product buffers against your skin. People. People do have different pHs on their skin. I mean, not extreme, not like four in ten, but someone could have like a four and a half, and someone could have a six. And maybe that'll also make a tiny bit of a difference as well.

[B]

Yeah. So all of those things. But if you like the product. We talked about this last episod, I believe. So you see what we had to say about that.

[A]

Although I will say I'm curious if Misty, she mentioned that she didn't like how the cream felt, and it definitely has A we'll call it a topical feel to it that's very, you know, the lotion is on your skin and so I'm wondering if the new version is any different than the old version and if she liked it cuz she only mentioned it didn't smell as much.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's got mineral oil, glycerin, dimethicone. Those are, you know, pretty classic ingredients.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I can, I can imagine how this one feels. And it's probably a little heavy, but not, it's not going to be quite as heavy as if instead of dimethicone they use petrolatum.

[A]

But it's just a traditional lotion type feel. But speaking of traditional, we have a traditional cleanser question from Orlando.

[B]

All right, this question is. Years ago I used Pantene thickening shampoo. It was great to use at the gym since it coated and detangled the hair, so I didn't need a conditioner. Is there anything like it on the market today? Thanks. And I will say this, Valerie, this was actually a comment on one of our things. So I don't exactly know the person's name, but they signed it from Orlando, Florida.

[A]

Oh, so it's not Orlando Bloom writing in and being like Pantene thickening was so great. I used it when I went to Equinox and now it's not on the market.

[B]

I like that their name was Orlando and their last name is Florida. So

[A]

I knew you were up to something here.

[B]

Now it surprises me. This question surprises me a little bit because there's lots of Pantene thickenings on the, on the market still. Right.

[A]

I don't think like actual Pantene thickening is on the market. I mean, the only thing I can think of is Pantene Full and Thick. Now they have really cute names to them, like full and strong and you know, that kind of stuff. But I would imagine that from a base formula perspective, I don't feel like Pantene has changed a whole, whole lot. So I'm wondering if there's still something similar on the market. They just call it something else.

[B]

Well, I can confidently say it has not changed. And I will tell you this story here. When I was working on the Tresemme brand, we wanted to create the best shampoo formula on the market. And the way we did that is we took, we bought all the top 10 selling shampoos. Your Pantenes, your fructose, your dove. What else was on there? Anything you can get at the drugstore at the time. So then we did this huge consumer research. So we emptied all of the, the shampoos into just white bottles that had like a number on it, right? And we had for the top 10, we had 100 people try each shampoo. So 100 times 10 is what, a thousand? So this is a thousand person study. And we had them do use it for two weeks and come back and rate it. And the one that rated the best was Pantene. And we did this study a few times, and Pantene always on a blinded basis, rated the best. Anyway. So one of the things I had to do there was look at the ingredient list of Pantene. And the ingredient list of Pantene then is the same almost identically as the ingredient list of Pantene right now.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So since 1999, which is when I first looked at that, and I looked at again in 2018 and then again in 2024, Pantene has not changed significantly their formula. Now, they did add a guar hydroxypropyl trimonium chloride to their shampoo back in like 2018, but otherwise. And they changed up from they used to be ammonium lauryl sulfate and they changed it to sodium lauryl sulfate. So they just got rid of the ammonium and went to the sodium. So that was their big change. But the stuff that makes it work and makes it foam, the fragrance, the dimethicone they have in there and the way they then the polymer they have, that stuff hasn't changed. And so I would expect that what they were using, what Orlando was using years ago, is still the same Pantene that's out there. Now. I will tell you this about Pantene. You know what's interesting about it? Because when I was in the, when I first started in the industry back in the early 1990s, you know what the number one shampoo at that time was?

[A]

What?

[B]

Pert Plus.

[A]

Wow. Yeah, that's Pert Plus. What happened to Pert Plus?

[B]

Well, Pert plus by Procter and Gamble. And you know what happened to that formula? What it went into Pantene. The Pantene formula that is used now is the same as Pert Plus. They just didn't call it two in one. But they use the same patent. The same ingredients are in there now. The difference is fragrances and colors. But I think P and G sold off Pert plus, so they're not still them. But the technology that is used in Pantene was the Per plus technology.

[A]

Oh, very interesting. Well, I tried to find the old Pantene Pro V Thickening shampoo ingredient list because they have now named it something else and changed the formula a little bit to update it with some of their existing technologies that they have, at least according to inkey lists on the Internet. And I'm looking at the shampoo chassis and they're similar, but I think there's a lot of additives in the newer products to make them feel a little bit. Not additives, that sounds really terrible, but like conditioning agents and lipids and all that kind of stuff in the newer products to give them a more modern feel. Updated preservative system. But when I look at the old ingredient list for the Pantene thickening formula, it looks like the Paul Mitchell Tea Tree Lemon Sage thickening shampoo chassis. And I'm wondering if the Pantene thickening was the benchmark for that product. I. It's very similar.

[B]

I would guess so. I would guess so. I mean, Pantene.

[A]

Yeah, that predates me at my gorilla.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was the huge. It was a huge seller at the time because that technology was really a breakthrough when it came out in the 19. It came out in the mid-1980s. And that's. You could actually feel a difference between a shampoo that was a two in one shampoo versus just a shampoo. And it performed almost. That's not quite as well, but it performed almost as well as a shampoo. And then a conditioner.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

If you did a stress test. But still is better to use a conditioner. Of course. And that's also I think why Pantene? They never sold themselves as a. Well, some skus they did as a two in one.

[A]

Yeah. Because people look for a two in one, but it's the same thing.

[B]

Right. And so they'd have a volumizing one that has dimethicone in it. It's like typically wouldn't do that, but people just love how that foams, how it rinses, how it leaves their hair feeling. And it's still a very popular shampoo to this day.

[A]

Yeah. Orlando. So I'm not sure if we can help you here, but I would recommend looking at some of the newer Pantene types, like full and thick and see if you still enjoy it as much. Or maybe try the Paul Mitchell Tea Tree Lemon Sage thickening shampoo. But I don't, I wouldn't really call that a two in one. So I'd be curious what you think.

[B]

Yeah, it's. You just gotta try it out. But I'm, I'm sure, I mean, I know Pantene has a bunch of different versions, and so they're not all exactly the same, but most of them are using this basic chassis where it has their. Their detergents. And then it'll have dimethicone, and it'll have, I think, polyquaternium 10, maybe some.

[A]

Some cation, dimethicone, niacinamide. Their. Their new complex. They put their new complex into it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, but that's. That's all the pretend story stuff. Oh, did I say that?

[A]

Oh, don't get anyone started. Well, we have time for one more question from Anna.

[B]

Dear Beauty brains, are there differences in ingredient quality control between different cosmetic brands? I've been wondering, because I have mild reactions to a lot of lip products. For example, tingling and peeling skin. But I haven't been able to identify any ingredient that always causes the reaction across different products. I know fragrance can be a wild card, but are there any other ingredients that could vary in quality or composition? Thanks, Anna. So in lip products, I mean, if it's a lip balm, what are you using? Like shea butter, like petrolatum, waxes, oils,

[A]

emollients, different types of melting points in the waxes. So I would say even that's a bit nuanced. I will say that lip balm is a very tough formulation category because it could look like you're using all the same ingredients, but the ratios really play a huge role in the way that the waxes form this gel structure network. And even a difference of a handful of a percentage can make a very big difference in the way the perception of the lip balm is on your skin. And so I would say, if we're talking about anhydrous lip balms, if you were looking at two brands that had the same list of ingredients, you could still feel a huge difference based on this ratio difference. It's a wax chemistry. It's as simple as melting a bunch of stuff together and pouring it at the same temperature. But it's also very complicated.

[B]

But it's also. They could be using the same supplier of ingredients, but it's just the formulations are different, and then you could still have that effect.

[A]

Yeah. But when it comes to, you know, let's set the lip product story aside, because I'm not sure why some would tingle. I would like to think that the fragrance is a big component of that.

[B]

Well, I would think the fragrances and the flavors, and that's gonna just depend on the person, right?

[A]

Exactly. But when it comes to other products, I would say say it's complicated. So I mentioned the glycerin example earlier.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ideally, you would buy a glycerin and you would test it for very specific things when you bring it into your facility. And you have good glycerin suppliers and you have not so great or not so reliable glycerin suppliers. And a lot of it comes down to the cost. And unfortunately, not every facility, even when purchasing the same quality of glycerin, will QC it in the same way. So mistakes happen. Sometimes the wrong label gets put on a product or raw material. Excuse me. And some facilities do a really great job of incoming quality control and some don't. So it's hard to say is any quality difference from the actual material itself, itself, or the way in which the facility handles the material and then manufactures the product. You know, a lot of cosmetic chemists, and we've even said it ourselves, like everyone has access to the same ingredients. That is true. But sometimes people do buy lower quality. And it's not like pharmaceutical grade, medical grade, cosmetic grade. It has to do with, like, the quality of the manufacturer and the practices that they follow.

[B]

And, and it's also like a lot of these decisions are made by the purchasing department at your company. And the purchasing people, they want to save money. And so while you might have, as the formulator, you have your favorite suppliers who you think are reliable and such, the purchasing department will say, hey, I can get glycerin over here for 50 cents. Why am I. Why are we buying the $1 1? Now, chemically, they might be almost all the same, but like you said, maybe they don't clean out the impurities as much. And so there's some more impurities in this cheaper one than in the more expensive one. And a purchasing department might push you towards at least looking at that alternative supplier. And if you can get them to pass the test in one lot, maybe you're like, okay, we'll use that. But then you. If they're not a reliable supplier, maybe not. Every time they make the same ingredient, you get the same results.

[A]

Yeah, it's really complicated. I actually did an interview with a home crafter, expert formulator who taught herself how to formulate products. Marie Rayma from Humble bme. And we talked a lot about ingredient sourcing. And I said, it's, you know, it's hard buying materials even as a chemist, because you have to have experience with knowing what a good quality shea butter is versus not a good quality shea butter and what types of problems you would run into by purchasing one or the other. And you're right, a purchasing person is not thinking about those fine nuances. They're saying, well, this shea butter over here is cheaper. We're going to go buy that one. And it's like, well, but that one doesn't have the right melting profile and all the things. So it's hard to make a statement about raw materials in general. Each one is nuanced for different things and how you assess if it's good quality or not. And people just, you know, maybe on the chemist side, people are taking the time to do that. I would honestly say a lot of chemists don't even take the time to do that. And it's actually incredible. A lot of the work I do in my RD facility is troubleshooting for different companies. And a lot of time it comes down to ingredient quality fixes everything.

[B]

So, I mean, when you work at a big company, from a consumer standpoint, if you go into the store and you're buying something that's on the shelves at Target or Walmart or something, those are generally coming from a big company. And the big companies will have quality control departments and they're going to test the specifications against all of the incoming raw material, lots that they have, and they keep a lot of good records. And so if you're sticking with big brands, you can have faith in the quality control of the ingredients. And I wouldn't expect differences between, if you buy one product at one point, it'll still be the same product that you buy the next time. For smaller companies that are made by contract manufacturers, that's not as rock solidly true. Generally, it probably is because they're keeping. If they're doing gmp, which is good manufacturing procedures, then you can have more faith that they're doing at least some good quality control checks. But again, a lot of these decisions are made by a purchasing department that wants to save money. And so there could be some quality differences in ingredients.

[A]

Exactly. So, long story short, I guess we can't really help you with your lip balm problem, but our best recommendation is to just keep trying one that works for you. And it's likely the formula.

[B]

I think it's probably most likely the fragrance or the flavor. Still, you know.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I meant by formula.

[B]

Right, right, exactly. And speaking of formula, do you hear that music?

[A]

Thanks for listening, everyone. If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a review that will help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[B]

Speaking of questions, if you have a question, just record it on your smartphone and email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com or you can call us and leave a message at 1-872-216 or we also have a form in the episode notes where you can post a question in that form. Hey, the Beauty Brains are also on Patreon. If you appreciate the fact that we do not have ads and don't take sponsorships, although we get offered a lot of them. Well that's because we are sponsored by our listeners. And if you want to help sponsor the show and keep it going, head over to patreon.com thebeautyrains and subscribe. Subscribe at any level. You also get a transcript of the show and your questions get a much higher priority than anyone else.

[A]

Also, follow us on our various social media accounts. On Instagram, we're at The Beauty Brains 2018 on X, we're at the Beauty Brains. On Blue sky, we're at the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page, a Tick tock and a YouTube.

[B]

All right. And sometimes we post.

[A]

Well, thanks again for listening everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[B]

Thanks everyone. Kittens.