Brent Billings (3:15)

Well, we talked about chutzpah with him.

Marty Solomon (3:18)

Okay, good. Yep. Absolutely. I love that that's the first thing you remember. You've got a good eye, Brent. You've got to quote session three. You've got some ayin tovag. First thing off of your. Your mind and your lips is like, oh, well, he had some chutzpah. He had something to offer, something that God loved. I love that. I was not that. That was when I wrote my list. That was literally the last thing that I remembered.

Brent Billings (3:40)

Well, it definitely, it definitely plays out in some pretty negative ways when he uses that hutz. But more selfishly. Yeah, but yeah, he. He has this drive to get what he wants and he's willing to put in the work for it. I mean, as it said right here in Hosea, he served to get a wife and then served again. And he's like, yeah, whatever it takes. Like he's going to get what he wants.

Marty Solomon (4:04)

So yeah, and I love it. We'll definitely say chutzpah. We don't want to run past that at all. I'm absolutely going to make sure that that makes the list. All the things that you just like remembered, they have like a. The thing that defines Jacob, especially at the beginning of his story, is there's a selfish element. There's a self. It's self interested, self interest, selfishness, self centeredness, self preservation. Very self. When we meet Jacob, and that's what I have on my list. When I was preparing for this episode, I wrote down like, what do I remember about Jacob? I said selfish. First thing. Second thing I said, quote, unquote, deceiver. Not that that's necessarily what his name means directly, immediately, but definitely what we see him doing. Like, he is. You said he's going to work for what he wants. Sometimes he's going to use honest means. Sometimes he's going to use dishonest means. Sometimes he's going to use everything in the middle of honest and dishonest. Kind of slimy and conniving I put on my. On my list. But he does have a fire. He has chutzpah. He has a commitment. And the prophet here is wanting them to remember who they are, where they come from. We talked about that before. We talk about that in the book of Deuteronomy. Remember where you come from. The prophet here is wanting them to remember who they are, who they are as descendants of their ancestors, who they are as descendants of Jacob, descendants of Israel. So they want them to remember the story of Jacob and Israel. And so I just wanted us to, like, go back there in our own minds and remember the Jacob story a little bit. Anything else you would add before we jump into the text?

Brent Billings (5:37)

I don't think so.

Marty Solomon (5:38)

Okay, well, then let's go back and catch that last verse of Hosea 11 and keep on trucking through a few verses of Hebrews. I did it again. Hosea 12. Maybe this is. That'd be a long reading for you. If we went from last verse of Hosea 11 to Hebrews 12, that'd be a long time.

Brent Billings (5:57)

But I don't know, Marty, maybe the spirit's leading something. Maybe there's a connection that we need to find in here, somebody.

Marty Solomon (6:03)

Goodness. Actually, I'm thinking of Hebrews 12. 3, and I guarantee you I can make a sermon out of that. But nevertheless, there you go. Give us some Hosea.

Brent Billings (6:10)

All right. Ephraim has surrounded me with lies, Israel with deceit. And Judah is unruly against God, even against the faithful holy one. Ephraim feeds on the wind. He pursues the east wind all day and multiplies lies and violence. He makes a treaty with Assyria and sends olive oil to Egypt. The Lord has a charge to bring against Judah. He will punish Jacob according to his ways and repay him according to his deeds. In the womb he grasps his brother's heel. As a man, he struggled with God.

Marty Solomon (6:43)

Okay, so the prophet here in Hosea very quickly again, makes right there at the end of what you read there a very clear and direct connection to Jacob calling into. And we read the end first. This would be the first time we're encountering this in Hosea 12, but definitely making a connection between the story of God's people and where they are at today. And this character, this character of Lore. This character of old Jacob in the womb, grasping his brother's heel. But from that last verse of Hosea 11, I mean, we find some very fitting. If we're supposed to be considering Jacob. Like, we find some very fitting references here. The last verse of Hosea 11, I hear lies and deception. First verse of chapter 12. Soapy. Sowing and reaping vanities. Sowing and reaping the whirlwind. We talked about that with Reid. This idea of just pointless chasing pointless things that aren't going to. There's no return on them. I see a reference right after that to violence that makes me think of exactly what else said. I mean, this book is not going to let us escape that. This book is definitely wanting us to grapple with. He multiplies. The people of God. Multiply lies and violence. Themes of deception, themes of sowing and reaping, emptiness. And there's a charge against Judah, which I can think of the Judah story, Judah and Tamar. There was a charge brought against Judah and how he had exploited and caused violence to Tamar. Punishment for Jacob, who had grasped at his brother's heel as a man struggling with God. This is very much Jacob's story. It's also the people of God's story. The prophet's asking them to consider. Think back. Remember where you come from. Remember what you should have learned from the title of this episode. Doomed to repeat it. We always talk about, if we don't know our history, we are doomed to repeat it. If we don't review our history, if we don't remember our history, we are doomed to repeat it. Which seems like the height of foolishness. Foolishness. Like just, we've been here before. We've made. Don't make these same mistakes again. The prophet is like, don't do this all over again. Like, don't be Jacob in his worst moments all over again. So this is what I see in the opening verses here. If you've got anything. If not, give me the next few verses. Brent.

Brent Billings (9:01)

Well, I just wanted to note that phrase, east wind, which is not a good thing.

Marty Solomon (9:06)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've talked about that.

Brent Billings (9:08)

When it shows up, it's like scorching by the east wind. The east wind is, you know, shattering things like east wind is not good. And the first mention of east wind is in the story of Joseph interpreting the dream for Pharaoh.

Marty Solomon (9:25)

Wow. Yeah, sure. Fantastic. Golly. And then Ephraim. The mention of Ephraim. Totally, totally. I totally missed that. In 12. 1 there is where you're seeing that pursuing the east wind. Not just any old wind, not just any old vanity, but pursuing the east wind. The east wind which is going to be full of judgment. That's where judgment comes from. That's where the wrath of God is. And here Ephraim is pursuing, he's going to get for that pursuit is the judgment of God. Wow. Yeah, I totally read over that. Love. Love grasping that. Absolutely.

Brent Billings (9:54)

And we see that in Jonah, we see that in Ezekiel, we see that in Isaiah. Like it's used throughout the prophets.

Marty Solomon (10:00)

Very dominant idea. Absolutely. When you go back, let's grab that last verse again. I feel like it's a good setup to verses four and beyond. Go back to verse three there and talk about Jacob in the womb.

Brent Billings (10:12)

In the womb he grasped his brother's heel as a man. He struggled with God. He struggled with the angel and overcame him. He wept and begged for his favor. He found him at Bethel and talked with him there. The Lord God Almighty. The Lord is his name. But you must return to your God, maintain love and justice, and wait for your God always.

Marty Solomon (10:33)

All right, so the prophet here isn't just like calling them back to remember the story of Jacob, just to condemn them. This is what I loved about when you did your list, Brent, you immediately remembered some of the positive attributes. Like the prophet here does want them to remember the full complexity of Jacob. Yes, he had some horrible moments. Yes, he was slimy and deceiving. Yes, he was unbelievably selfish. And yes, that is exactly what the prophet is trying to get the people of God to realize. Like, you are just like your father Jacob. You are selfish, you are full of deception, you are self interested and it's getting you in trouble. But the prophet is also wanting them to consider the positives of their ancestor Jacob. That like the chutzpah of Jacob that drove his story. And eventually, I mean, you could argue it's Jacob's chutzpah used in relationship with God that drove Jacob to his own salvation. Like, I don't mean like salvation, like going to heaven salvation. I just mean like his own salvation, like his own redeeming relationship with God. And it was not fun. Like his story is. Not let it sit. Like, I think I feel the prophet saying here, like, remember Jacob's story, he had his bad moments and he had his negative attributes, as do you. But it's also his positive. It's this chutzpah that will. It can save you too. Like if you have the same dogged commitment. Like if you have the Same stiff necked, stubborn, resolute chutzpah. And you turn it towards your relationship with God, it could actually save you again. Like it could save you today in your own. And it's not that it's not going to come without pain. Like the story of like he mentions Bethel here in Hosea 12. And two things happened at Beth El. Both of them is where he got his name changed. If you remember Brent, the first time, it was when he wrestled. And when I hear this passage the first time, I definitely think of the wrestling. He struggled with the angel and overcame him. He wept and begged his favor. Okay, that's definitely the first time he found him at Bethel and talked with him there. Okay, that's definitely. I feel like that's the wrestling with God story at Bethel, but it's also at Beth El where he's going to. What happens at the other Bethel story in Mention? It wasn't at Bethel, but it's right after he goes back to Beth El and then somebody dies.

Brent Billings (12:46)

Is that where Rachel dies?

Marty Solomon (12:48)

It's where Rachel dies and then his name gets. It's not. And again, let me be more clear. Rachel doesn't die at Bethel. She dies on the road on the way to Bethlehem. But it's right after they go back to Bethel to remember. Jacob in Genesis is trying to remember his story. He takes his kids back to Bethel to tell them the story, to remember his own story. So it's not that Jacob's story is going to be all fun and games. His redemption is going to come through lots of pain because of his own rebellion. Like Jacob's redemption is going to come through a lot of discomfort because he doesn't want to say yes to God. Just like the people of Hosea. Just like the people of Hosea. Chapter 12. Remember where you came from. You're making the same stupid mistakes that your father made because you're just like him. But the same attributes about your ancestor, about your father could be true of you. I love that poetic statement. Wait for God at your own Bethel. He found him at Bethel. He talked with him there. The Lord God Almighty. The Lord is his name. But you must return to your God, maintain love. And then there's like, what does it mean to return to God, maintain love and justice and wait for your God. Always. Like, go find God at your own Bethel. You've got to go back. You've got to be stubbornly committed. Because if not, this is headed in a bad direction. Hosea is saying. He's been saying that for chapters. So Much so that we keep having to like break it up in the middle of a podcast because we got to do a new episode. But it's just like chapters and chapters and chapters of God and judgment and there's some hope and God's redemption, but you are not choosing that. You're choosing something else. And plenty of things to just warning and woe, plenty of that in the story of Hosea. But still this connection to remember where you came from. Not just the bad, but also remember the good and go lean on the good, go chase down the good. But you've got to get rid of. You've got to forsake the bad. You've got to forsake the deception and the violence and the selfishness. You got to get rid of that. You got to use your chutzpah for good things and quit using it for your own self preservation. Maintain love and justice and wait for your God. Always love that little verse, but see anything else there? Brent?

Brent Billings (15:04)

Marty, I hate to break it to you, but I think you are conflating two stories, which Hosea also seems to do, to be fair, but the wrestling was actually not at Bethel.

Marty Solomon (15:16)

Oh, you're right. You're right. Bethel is the Jacob's Ladder story.

Brent Billings (15:21)

Yeah, yeah. The wrestling was. He named it Peniel or whatever.

Marty Solomon (15:25)

Yep.

Brent Billings (15:26)

But like Hosea has them back to back here. He struggled with the angel and overcame him. He found him at Bethel. So why, like Hosea is putting those together.

Marty Solomon (15:37)

Yeah. Well, then the second Bethel, he's going to return to Bethel just like we talked about. And it's not so it's not the name changing stories. Forget I said that. Brent Belling's here to fact check my stuff. This is good. So forget the name changing part of that, but the remembering the story part is totally there. He will go back to Bethel right before Rachel's death with the family. Right after the violence of Dina Dinah and her story at Shechem. Right after that, he takes the family to Beth El and it would seem like he's there to remember his story. A story that in a lot of ways, for him, it didn't start with the dream. But that Jacob Ladder story is kind of the beginning of I was running from home. That's where I met God. Just like what he said. But he does. Yeah, Hosea does conflate. And I'm wondering if it's. If it's conflated for a reason, for a purpose. Because he talks about the struggle with the angel. That would be the wrestling match. He wept and Begged for his favor and he found him at Bethel and talked with him there. Yeah, I mean, he's going to essentially talk with. Yeah. I don't know. But the theme works. What Hosea is doing with the theme totally fits. Just remembering where you came from, remembering your story. Got to return to God. You got to go back there. After all these tragic stories, he ends up going back to Bethel. So that part works. I don't know. And maybe we're just. Maybe Hosea doesn't mean to tie those things together like we're doing. It just feels that way. Feels like all of verse four is kind of wrapping together a big story in one thought. But those are separate stories. I fell for it. I fell for it.

Brent Billings (17:12)

Hosea tripped you right up.

Marty Solomon (17:15)

I was seduced and you seduced me. As Jeremiah said, Hosea got me. Got me.

Brent Billings (17:20)

There you go. Okay, well, that's all I have, I think.

Marty Solomon (17:23)

Okay, well, that's good. No, that's good to clear that up. That's absolutely. No, yeah. Now I'm going to be. Maybe our listeners have got some stuff as we wrestle with that, too. Absolutely. But for now, because I don't have any good notes on that because I didn't see it coming. Let's go to the next section.

Brent Billings (17:36)

Okay.

Marty Solomon (17:36)

Let's see what more I can screw up in seven through ten. Let's do that.

Brent Billings (17:40)

Hey, you know Hosea, he's a wily prophet, I guess.

Marty Solomon (17:44)

Yes, he is.

Brent Billings (17:45)

All right. Verse 7. The merchant uses dishonest scales and loves to defraud. Ephraim boasts, I am very rich. I've become wealthy with all my wealth. They will not find in me any iniquity or sin. I have been the Lord your God ever since you came out of Egypt. I will make you live intense again. As in the days of your appointed festivals, I spoke to the prophets, gave them many visions, and told parables through them.

Marty Solomon (18:11)

All right, so we got a lot more of the same. Not necessarily. And it fits the life of Jacob. I kind of feel like for a few verses here in this section, we kind of get away from all the direct ties directly to Jacob. But I do find some themes that we're not changing conversations at all. Like, we've got themes of dishonesty, loves to defraud. That was the end of verse seven there. All my wealth. That doesn't necessarily ever fit. I mean, I thought about maybe when Jacob's flocks increase and all the wealth he gets from Levan before he leaves, maybe that you've made connections to Joseph. I Feel like that is maybe because he calls him Ephraim. So verse eight, Ephraim Bose. I am very rich. I have become wealthy. I thought about the Joseph story and how they make it through the famine. And lots of people that I've been studying Genesis with like to point out, like it's because Joseph is willing to make an alliance. We've talked. We're going to talk about that. You know, in this passage, in this chapter, he wants to make an alliance with Pharaoh, make an alliance with empire. And in the moment, it's to help save people in the midst of the famine. But it's in this story where they come and they basically sell themselves to Joseph. I think Josh might have brought this up too. Like, they come to Joseph and they say, we're going to give you everything. We're going to give you our very bodies, not just our money, not just our property. You can have us. And we swear all of our allegiance to you and Egypt and the empire, because you're going to save us. And I thought of that when I read verse eight. I don't know if there's Joseph connections there because of Ephraim, but that could be things in many visions. Boy, that I had that down as, like. Well, that's kind of Jacob, but that's more Joseph revealing things to them in visions. That's very Josephy, very Joseph story. So maybe there's some Joseph parallels here as well. I mean, that's going to work with the Judah story, the Judah and Tamar, but I don't know. Do you see anything else there before we keep moving?

Brent Billings (20:02)

Oh, just the struggle of the translator trying to deal with a text that has no quotation marks. And I guess it's somewhat obvious, but I'm like, yep. Was he actually trying to say that Ephraim is boasting that he's God? I don't know. I think that's probably a stretch. But, like, those quotation marks are not in the original manuscript. So what's going on there?

Marty Solomon (20:26)

Yeah, in my niv, there's a closing quotation at the end of verse eight.

Brent Billings (20:30)

Right.

Marty Solomon (20:31)

And that would make verse nine God's voice. So Ephraim's done in verse eight, and then God speaking in verse nine. And the prophet and the translators do that because Hosea keeps. And we saw this in one of our last episodes. Hosea keeps going in and out of. This is God speaking. This is me speaking. God speaking, Me speaking. And it's hard for the translators to make those calls of when that is. But that's what they're trying to show. There is. Ephraim's done boasting. In verse 8, verse 9 and 10, the NIV is attributing to the God voice and then stops in verse 11. And again, that's a choice. Like you said, that's a choice by the translators because the original doesn't have quotations in it. So you've got to decide, like, is God still speaking in verse 11, verse 12, verse 13, or is this the. The prophet? So, yeah, that's a really good observation.

Brent Billings (21:17)

Yeah, I'm just a little gunshot after the quick switch from the wrestling to Bethel, I'm like, sure. What other. Yeah, what other fast ones is Hosea trying to pull on us here?

Marty Solomon (21:26)

Yep, totally. Okay, well, go ahead and give us the next. Well, read us. Read us out of this chapter and then we'll try to, like, circle back around and make some. Some larger conclusions and tie some of these. We're kind of all over the place. Let's try to tie it together. But read us the rest of 12. We've already looked at some of it already, but let's hear it again.

Brent Billings (21:42)

Is Gilead wicked? Its people are worthless. Do they sacrifice bulls in Gilgal? Their altars will be like piles of stones on a plowed field. Jacob fled to the country of Aram. Israel served to get a wife and to pay for her. He tended sheep. The Lord used a prophet to bring Israel up from Egypt. By a prophet. He cared for him. But Ephraim has aroused his bitter anger. His Lord will leave on him the guilt of his bloodshed and will repay him for his contempt.

Marty Solomon (22:13)

All right, so this last section here, basically one of those prophetic warnings. You are in danger. Like, you're in danger. And because of this, the call of Hosea12 as I've chosen to package it here today for our episode To Remember Where We Came from, going back to that same. The end of session one, the same concept. You've got to remember where you came from. You got to remember your story. You can't forget. You can't forget your story because your story is who you are. Your story is where you come from. Your story is your identity. Your story is your story. You can't forget your story because if you forget history, you're doomed to repeat it. You've got to remember. You've got to remember where you came from. And so the prophet here is saying, remember. Remember the story of dominantly here, Jacob. Remember the story of Jacob. Remember where you come from. Remember the stuff you're made of. Remember the dangers, remember the advantages. Take stock of the bad. Take stock of how your selfishness and your self preservation and your Jacobness when it comes to the frustrating and the bad stuff and the rebellion and the danger. Take stock of the bad, but also take advantage of the good. You have some stuff from your ancestors that could serve you well. Turn it towards confession, turn it towards repentance, turn it towards. But remember above all, just remember. Like, remember, remember the bad, remember the good. But remember, don't forget, don't forget your history. Don't forget where you come from. You've got to remember. You got to remember these things because it's remembering your history that's going to help you navigate the future. I think we've talked about this before on the podcast, Brent, but it reminded me of the whole idea that the rabbis have talked about. The prophets talk about the latter days and the Hebrew phrase is literally the behind days. And I think we've chatted about in earlier sessions like this concept of they call them the behind days because you back into them. The rabbis said the pagans, they're always looking towards the future. The pagans are obsessed with the future. The pagans are trying to figure out the future. The pagans are trying to control the future. But that's a very pagan impulse. God's people understand that. They can't. Only God could understand the future. No man's going to be able to understand the future. So what do we do? We turn around and we face the past. We remember where we came from and that's why the future is always referred to as the behind days. Because they're behind us. We're backing into the future. We've got our back towards the future. I remember Brad Gray preached a sermon once called Back to the Future. Very clever on this whole concept. But we're wanting to have our back towards the future so that we can be surveying where it's the only thing that we're going to be able to. We don't have the ability to perceive or to understand or to translate the future. We can only perceive, understand and translate the past. And so we've got to remember where we've come from. We've got to have our back to the future surveying where we're at and where we've come from because that's the only way that we're going to be able to navigate where we're going. We just don't have the ability to see what God sees and to understand the future for what it is. And So I think about that. But it's not the only thing that we're called to remember. Maybe I should say it this way. It's not the only person that I think Hosea is calling us to remember. Hosea also mentions another biblical character that we already noted. And I tried not to hang out there because I didn't want to. I wanted to save some kind of a inductive punchline for the end. But God. Also Hosea also mentions not just Jacob, but who else, Brent?

Brent Billings (25:29)

Well, there's a few people.

Marty Solomon (25:31)

There are a few people. But particularly that passage we started with, or even up front, he said, brought a charge against somebody. Punishment for Jacob. Judah brought a charge against Judah. Give me Hosea 12. 2. Read that verse for us one more time.

Brent Billings (25:48)

The Lord has a charge to bring against Judah. He will punish Jacob according to his ways and repay him according to his deeds.

Marty Solomon (25:54)

So we don't just have just Jacob. We have a couple mentions of Judah in this chapter. Almost as many mentions of Judah as Jacob. And so I wonder if we're also supposed to be thinking about Judah. I actually got a text message from one of our good friends just yesterday. This week. We mentioned his name. I just got his permission to share our little conversation. We mentioned his name way back Bayma session 1 OG. We talked about good student friend of mine, Reid Hazelbaker, way back in the day, Bama 1.0.

Brent Billings (26:30)

I just joined a new home group with Reid actually. So absolutely. I've been seeing him recently.

Marty Solomon (26:35)

Absolutely. Shout out to Reedy. Still listening all these years later to our podcast and he's been listening to the Hosea series and he sent me this note. Typical Reed. Reed hasn't lost a step. Like Reid's still doing Reed Hazelbaker things. If you remember, Reed Hazelbaker was the one that found all these connections between Bridegroom of Blood and the wrath of God, story of Sodom, story of the Exodus. He was one that just. He loves word studies, loves online Bible tools, loves to find stuff. He said this. He said, I was listening to the Bema Hosea series and doing some digging. I always love it when Reid Hazelbaker is doing some digging. He said, I found some interesting thoughts. You were already making parallels with Judah and Tamar. But in addition to the parallels, you mentioned the Zenuim. Remember El talking to us about the reference to Gomer as a Zenoim? Yeah, the Zenoim word first usage, Judah and Tamar, second mention of the word Zenoim. And El may have been making these connections and I missed it, but I don't think she did. I think Reid and I both missed it if she did. The second mention to Zenoim, by the way, the story of Jehu in 2 Kings. Oh, which is exactly the reference that Hosea is talking about in Hosea one that we opened up Hosea with, that El was like, hey, this prophecy is a prophecy that's been. I don't want to say inspired. Like, what's instigated this message is the violence done by Jehu in the name of political expediency. Like, that's the trigger for this prophecy. And it happens to be the second mention of Zenoim, which is what Gomer's called. But the first mention was Judah and Tamar, which I just love that connection because it just makes this whole again, the Judah and Tamar story being in so many ways a parallel to the Hosea Gomer story, and yet the story is so clearly making the connection because of word usage. The idolatry here, the adultery here, the prostitution here, if you want to use the metaphor in the allegory, is your. That political violence, that political expediency, that political idolatry. That's what's being so clearly referenced here. And I love that Reid made some additional connections to that. And I see that here in this passage, because I wonder if what the prophet is saying is not, just remember the icky part of the Jacob story. Also remember the chutzpah part of the Jacob story. Don't just remember the sinful, rebellious part of the Judah story, but the whole point of the Judah story. The whole point of the Judah story. Do you remember the Judah story, Brent? Like, what's the thing that rises? Why is that story told? What is that story all about?

Brent Billings (29:32)

The fact that he admits his wrongdoing when it comes down to it, yes, absolutely.

Marty Solomon (29:39)

Which has been one of the themes of Hosea. We had two whole episodes on just the idea of repentance, confession. Repentance is what Hosea is calling. Like Hosea's trying to call them. Don't just remember the bad stuff about Jacob. Also remember the chutzpah. Don't just remember the bad stuff about Judah. Remember what Judah did. Like Judah ultimately found redemption in his story. Don't just remember the bad of where you come from. Also remember the good. Don't just remember the failure. Also remember the confession and the repentance of Judah, the repentance that marked Judah as the king that he is. It's from Judah that king would come. It's from Judah that David came. It's from Judah that Messiah comes. We would say it's from Judah. It's from Judah. And why? Because Judah is like this powerful, unbelievably good looking, really attract. No, from Judah. Because Judah was willing to be honest. Because Judah was willing to humble himself. Because Judah was willing to be all the things that we are going to ultimately see in their perfection in Jesus. That was also a part of Judah's story. The seeds of that are in Judah's story. It's a call to remember and to return. Like, here's what I love about this. It Hosea's call here isn't just to remember where you come from, it's also to return to what's most true. You might remember the word chuva Shuva from session two, which we use as the word for repentance. But the word meant what Brent in the Hebrew.

Brent Billings (31:05)

To return.

Marty Solomon (31:05)

To return. To come back home. I would say it this way. We have to remember our true identities, who we truly are. We shouldn't just remember our failures, although we should. We should learn from our history, otherwise we're doomed to repeat it. But remembering our failures also requires a remembrance of our truest selves, who God called us to be from the very beginning. I have this note that I wrote down. These are my words. I said this. I'm still convinced that when God looks at us, he doesn't see our stories. He doesn't see scorecards or balance sheets. God doesn't see our worst moments as the things that define us. Just like I see my children, I see them. God sees us for who we truly are and wants us to never forget. Because we tend to. We tend to forget who we are. We tend to forget the we, the us, the me that God sees when he looks at us. Because God sees us for like the kids that we are. And yeah, he knows our story. He doesn't forget our mistakes. He doesn't forget our. Like he those. Like when I think of my kids as they're growing, they're getting older and older. And I'm sure when my kids become adults and they become young adults and then older adults, if I'm still around to see that, like, I'll remember the mistakes that they made, I'll remember all those things. But those things won't define them. Those things will be a part of where the same is true for God and his people. Like, I remember the story. I remember how we got here. I remember the mistakes that you made. But I also know who you are. And I need you to come back to your truest self. I need you to come back to your truest identity. Brett, I don't know if you hear anything or see anything when you. When you hear that.

Brent Billings (32:48)

Well, I was thinking that this was going to be completely unrelated comment, but you made this offhanded remark that Judah is mentioned almost as much as Jacob. Well, as far as Judah and Jacob explicitly, they're each mentioned two times.

Marty Solomon (33:03)

Yes.

Brent Billings (33:04)

But then you also have Israel three times.

Marty Solomon (33:07)

Yep.

Brent Billings (33:08)

And we know that's the same person, but like those names are used.

Marty Solomon (33:11)

Yes.

Brent Billings (33:12)

At different times. Intentionally to say, like, what kind of person is he being right now?

Marty Solomon (33:17)

Yeah, that's a great point.

Brent Billings (33:18)

Hosea is also playing with the names, like throughout here because God is referred to in so many different ways.

Marty Solomon (33:27)

Yeah, sure.

Brent Billings (33:27)

He's using God, which I assume is Elohim behind it. We've got Lord God Almighty. The Lord is his name. But the thing that I was looking at specifically that got me even started on this thread was down 13 and 14, it says the Lord, which has the small cap. So it's the tetragrams on, you know, like name of God behind it used a prophet to bring up Israel from Egypt. And then in the next verse, but Ephraim has aroused his bitter anger. His Lord will leave him, Will leave on him the guilt of his bloodshed. And that one is a capital L. But it is not the small caps, it's Adonai behind that one. So Hosea is playing with all of these names throughout the whole thing.

Marty Solomon (34:08)

Very interesting. Yeah. And it would be interesting to see if there's a tie, a real intention that feels like work for Reed Hazelbaker if I ever seen it. But to see is there a method to the madness of Isaiah or Israel and. And Jacob and their mentions and all of that, because there could be even more wisdom buried there that I didn't even consider. Yeah, you're totally right. An intentionality to the way these names are being referenced and when. And when which name is being used. Totally.

Brent Billings (34:36)

Well, let that be a lesson to people. If you want a shout out, you're going to get some homework with it.

Marty Solomon (34:39)

I love that. I love that. So true. So true. Well, I wanted to. I wanted to end. I haven't done this every episode and I always qualify when I'm about ready to read from this source, this 1994 Minister's Manual, and the series from Roger Lovett. It's not necessarily an endorsement, but again, a couple paragraphs here that I really, I thought were I Like them. Here is. Here's how he ended this section here on Hosea 12. He tells the story of Nels. I don't know if it's fair. Ferry Farrar. I don't know what it is, but Nails fair.

Brent Billings (35:19)

I don't know.

Marty Solomon (35:20)

Fair. Okay, Nails fair. Told that when he was 13 years old, he left his homeland of Sweden to come to the United States. This was hard, for he had little money and did not know English. The last family gathering before he left home was memorable. His family assembled and read from the New Testament. Then they prayed. After that, all eight of the children and his mother and father walked him to the train station. At the station, the church choir had come to sing a wonderful hymn. But Feyre said the memory that formed a motivating faith in his life was the memory of his mother. She wanted to say something. That sad day as he left, she knew she might never see him again. She wanted to say something that would be right and real. Fair watched as she tried to form words and nothing came from her mouth. Finally, the conductor blew the whistle and the train started to pull away. Farah said his mother ran alongside the platform, whispering to him. Nels, remember Jesus, Nels, remember Jesus. A wise person has written that the important things are what we remember after we have forgotten everything else. Hosea called his people back down history's lane until they stood before a portrait of Jacob. And pointing to it, he said, remember. This is one of the great tasks of the church today. And I loved that. I love that. Not just because of the poetic statement of remember Jesus, which absolutely. But remember not just a theological construct of Jesus. Not just that we're saved, Jesus. Remember who we are like. Remember our stories. Remember our biblical stories. Remember where we come from as a people. Remember how we're grafted into this Jewish story and we're grafted into this Jewish tree. Remember our own stories. Remember the stories of our own families and our own personal stories. Remember. Remember. And then see them through. Above all, remember Jesus. See them through the light of the gospel. See them through the light of repentance. See them through the light of confession. See them. Remember. Remember where we came from. If we don't remember our stories, we'll be doomed to repeat the dark chapters of them. So remember. And I love that. So I thought I would share that as we close the episode today. Brent, I'm all out of notes.

Brent Billings (37:42)

That's good. It's a good way to end it, the call to remember. Something that we need to do often, I think.

Marty Solomon (37:48)

Yeah. Not just the bad. Also the good. If you lose either one of those, Brent, you we screw up the whole thing. If you remember all the bad and not the good, that's not even useful. If you remember all the good and not the bad, you never confront the things that need to be changed. You repeat your own dark chapters of your own history. You've got to hang on to both. When you remember our story, what are the things I've learned through my negative experiences? And what are the things that I know to be true because of God's faithfulness, forgiveness, grace, love, mercy and compassion? So may that be true for us. Remember both parts.

Brent Billings (38:20)

Amen. A word that's maybe more meaningful than a than. Than it used to be after a recent episode we did.

Marty Solomon (38:27)

Sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. 100%. Absolutely.

Brent Billings (38:30)

Okay. Well, listeners can find more details about our show at baymondiscipleship.com check out the show notes. I don't know, there might be. I feel like there are a couple of things that I might end up throwing in there, but we'll see. That's all there. You can use the website to get in touch with us. You can use that to find out how to support us. Everything that we do is made possible by listeners like you. So thank you for your support and thank you for considering it, if you haven't yet. But thanks for joining us on the Behemoth podcast today. We'll talk to you again soon.