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- [00:00]
Karen Stiller
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Brent Billings
This is the Behemoth Podcast with Marty Solomon. I'm his co host, Brent Billings. Today we are joined by special guest Karen Stiller, author of Holiness here and the author and editor of many other books, magazines, essays and more. She currently lives in Ottawa, Ontario. Karen, welcome to the show.
- [00:23]
Karen Stiller
Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.
- [00:25]
Brent Billings
And if you want to add anything to my very basic introduction of who you are, tell us a little bit about your life, your hobbies, whatever you want to share with us.
- [00:34]
Karen Stiller
Okay, thank you. Well, it's a very, very cold day in Ottawa while we're recording this. So I haven't been out for my daily walk that I love to walk. I have three adult children, one of whom still lives with me, my 24 year old son and his giant dog. We have a bull mastiff named Russell who I love very much and actually let up on my bed last night, which I'm sure I'll regret, but he's a great dog. So we're dog lovers. I'm a reader and a writer and a cook. I love to do hospitality. That's an important part of my life. I took up line dancing last year, which was very fun and like surprisingly fun. Surprisingly difficult, surprisingly a workout, but super fun with friends. So, yeah, that's off the top of my head, man.
- [01:27]
Marty Solomon
Bullmastiff is my favorite dog. Really never had family members that will let me get one. So now I'm totally jealous. We have a corgi husky mix named Kalmar and that's as close to a big old bullmastiff as I'm going to get. And it is. He is definitely not that. So, man, jealous already.
- [01:47]
Karen Stiller
Yeah, they're great dogs. They really are. We grew up, well, our kids grew up with a bullmastiff at our cottage. There was this marina and this dog would always walk up and just eat their ice cream off their cones. So it was like high on our list of must have dogs. And so I'm really happy. I'm happy my son got one.
- [02:07]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, totally. I would let the dog. Yeah, I would let, I would let a dog like that do whatever they wanted. So there you go.
- [02:12]
Brent Billings
Oh my goodness.
- [02:14]
Marty Solomon
I. So I met Karen. Karen. It may be, I think we got one or two other. Yeah, we got a few more authors that we haven't had on the podcast yet, but people have met a lot of the authors that were at the Nav Press authors retreat that I was at. And I remember when Karen was there, she showed up maybe towards the end of the Window where everybody else had showed up and you were right in the thick. Grief was fresh for you at that point. And I've talked about it on the podcast before. I always feel so awkward in those spaces. And I'm an introvert and I'd never met Karen before. And so I just gave space and never really connected a whole lot. We sat next to each other for dinner one night and enjoyed that, but didn't get to know you as well as I got to know some of the other authors. And then I sat down and read this book and I'm like, oh, my goodness gracious, wow, what a book and what an author. And was really bummed that I didn't spend more time getting to know you at the retreat. But I'm glad we get to connect today.
- [03:19]
Karen Stiller
Thank you, Marie. I would have stayed away from me too. I remember arriving. You all had been meeting in the afternoon. I think my flights were delayed and I came in sort of at a dinner. And I was so glad that I had missed the big circle where you talk about yourselves, because I knew, I knew I would have, you know, burst out crying, but. And you know, in hindsight, I was three months out from losing my husband and I wonder now, like, how I even made my way there. But it was so important to me because my book, writing that book was keeping me going back then. It was a bright, warm light in my life and. Yeah, so. So that's why I went. But I have second guessed that decision.
- [04:04]
Marty Solomon
Well, I'm. I'm glad you were there and I got to be connected, if nothing else, for this conversation in the book. It represents alone. So look forward to having more chances to do that. But you wrote this book, Holiness here. And I was going to use my Goodreads review to kind of spend time talking today. I've done this before. I try not to do it a whole lot, but it's a. It's a great reference for me. So here's couple things that I said in my review of your book, Karen. There are at least two different kinds of good books in my mind. There are books that are good because the substance of the content is great. Then there are books that are good because the writing, the actual art of the writing is spectacular. Sometimes you find a book that is both, and this is one of those books. This is. This book is a beautiful tour through the reality of holiness in us. Stiller can write. She is an artist. I found myself at the end of sentences holding my breath because of what I just read and how it was written. She is a master of her craft. So I wanted to. I wanted to ask Karen just, I mean, a lot of us. There's a lot of people out there that write books. I count myself one of them. But I don't know if I would call myself like an. Like a master of the craft of being an author, the artist. There's a creative bone in me, but there's something different about somebody that can, like, really write and write beautifully and write well. Can you talk about your journey becoming an author? Like, that's open ended. Go wherever you want. What inspired you or where, but talk to me about. I'm just. Anytime I meet somebody that's very good at what they do, I just like, tell me more about what turns your crank or whatever it is.
- [05:40]
Karen Stiller
Well, thank you. And you are a master at writing. Goodread reviews. I love your. It's my favorite review of all time. You're so generous. Oh, my goodness. I was blown away.
- [05:52]
Brent Billings
So challenge accepted. I am working on mine now.
- [05:57]
Karen Stiller
Oh, that's funny. Thank you. I've been a writer for around 28 years. And I started out writing for a small weekly newspaper in northern Saskatchewan called the Meadow Lake Progress. And I've always been very. And that was great. That got me started. And then I pushed out further and further over the years and I wrote around my children. I always say I'm a writer because I was around my kids and I was home with them, but I wanted to make money. I thought being a writer was a great way to make money. Ha ha ha. We know that's not the case. But at the same time, I did, I have made a living because I learned to write anything. So I was writing copy for, you know, campaigns. I do a lot of spell work for not for profits. A lot of stuff that my name is, is not on. And then I began journalistic writing. So for years I was telling other people's stories and I, you know, I learned the craft right, Being concise, all the mechanics of writing. And then when I was turned 50, I went back to school and I did a master of fine art in creative nonfiction. And that was a transformative moment in my writing life. I learned to write in scenes. I learned to be more sensory in my writing. I learned to pare down instead of, you know, ramping up. And I learned about revision. And for me, revision is when the good stuff happens, always. And so, you know, every draft I do, every chapter in Holiness here, I probably rewrote, you know, 39 or 40 times, like just paying Attention to every sentence. And so I really thank you for appreciating what you're calling artistic. I. I really appreciate that because I. I've worked really hard, and when I work with writers, which I love to do, I love to help bring other people's beautiful writing into the world. I really stress just the. That beautiful work of revision and redoing and rewriting and almost always subtracting, not adding very often. So, yeah, I. And I still do that journalistic writing and that sort of copywriting, but I've been shifting into writing out of my own life, which happened with the Minister's Wife, my first book, and also holiness here in a way I actually hadn't planned. I turned in a book that I. A little different from what I had proposed. I wasn't planning on writing so much from my own experience. But as I read and did all the work you do to write a book, I just found that's where the writing took me. So I followed. I followed it like a bullmastiff down.
- [08:43]
Marty Solomon
A country road in search of an ice cream cone. Now, that makes sense, because everything you just described is probably the parts of the process that I run from. You talk about learning from fiction. Brent knows how much I love fiction, and that comes dripping with sarcasm. I struggle to get into fiction. I forced myself to read one fiction book a year. Like, that's my commitment.
- [09:07]
Karen Stiller
Okay, that's good. It's good that you do that.
- [09:10]
Marty Solomon
But I can see what you're saying, which now challenges me and convicts me that maybe I should care more. It would make me a better writer and a better communicator. Really, really can appreciate that. And it does come through. I love when people put in that kind of work, because you do, man. It pays dividends. So, yeah, I would just, again, recognize that and say thanks for caring, because people that care add something to our world. That's really, really wonderful.
- [09:39]
Karen Stiller
But thank you.
- [09:40]
Marty Solomon
Brent. What do you got?
- [09:41]
Brent Billings
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with the beauty of the writing. I've been trying to figure out how to describe my experience of reading your book. And I think what I'm kind of landing on is that it's sort of like a dream in that in reality, I have not gone through all of these experiences and stories that you talk about, but it all feels so vivid. And I'm like, was I there? What did this happen to me? And was Karen here, like, writing it down? Like, it just all feels like I'm a part of the story and the way you describe things and, like, the interesting details that you pull out. And I'm sure you know, as you said, you've labored over which of those to include and which to leave out and exactly how to word everything. But yeah, it's absolutely beautiful. I've been enjoying it.
- [10:32]
Karen Stiller
Oh, thank you. You know, one thing I think is really important that had shifted writing for me as well is thinking about the reader and always and writing as an act of love for the reader. And that helps a writer make difficult choices and work harder and try to make things better. So there's that. And also I really, really believe in the power of transparency and telling our true and honest stories and how that helps each other. I am helped by your true honest story and hopefully you are helped by mine. And I really believe that's such a gift that writers and good friends just bring to our faith journeys in particular, like, just by being honest. And I think that's something I really prioritize in my writing. Like, I am not afraid to tell the not so pretty truth about my own self or my own journey. And I think that helps people.
- [11:36]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, totally. It serves as a perfect segue to my next talking point, the next little section of my review. Speaking of Karen's ability to write as a craft, I say, however, none of this takes away from the content itself. Stiller wasn't just saying beautiful things beautifully. She was saying deep things that stir the reader. The book left me encouraged, challenged, inspired, and even once crying with my wife as we talked about it in our front room. I wanted to talk about this idea of holiness that you're writing about. Like the actual content of the book itself. It's not just abstract, it's concrete. Like, I think that's part of what even Brent's getting at, the way it pulls you in. It's not just, it's not big holiness, it's also small holiness, if that makes sense. It's not just triumph, it's also defeat. And so I'm going to give you another open ended question, Karen, that you can take anywhere. Can you talk some about like the important things you've learned about holiness in this process or what led to write the book? What are, like, what are a couple things you would say about holiness if you, if you only had to pick one or two things like that rise to the surface of this big idea? What are the things that have stuck with you now on the back end of this project?
- [12:50]
Karen Stiller
Yeah, thank you for that very good question. I really wanted to sort of try to figure out holiness. You know, I started with this experience at church where one of the priests prayed, give us grace, God, to lead a holy life. And I was just immediately struck with, what does that mean? And, you know, I've been in the church for a long time, and I'm still trying to figure that out. So that was my question that propelled the book forward. And I think we want to live a changed life, and we want our faith to make an impact in, you know, our lives. We want to be participants in our own transformation. And that's a term I use in the book. And I think it's very important for us to remember that we are holy because of what Jesus did. We have been named holy, and then we get to be holy. So it's a. It's a being and doing thing. It's acceptance of our holiness. Like I. Time and time again, like, I. I talked about this book a lot when I was writing it, which I don't usually do because I'm scared it's not going to work out and I'm going to feel silly. But with this book, talking about it became part of my research in a way, because I, again and again, people who were longtime Christ followers would say, I'm not holy. I am not holy. And I think. Well, and I would say you are, actually. So we, you know, this kind of rejection of it, this insecurity around it, this fear of what it might mean for our lives, I have found that to be quite common. So I think there's a beautiful conversation to be had around, you know, we. That is our identity, and that's how we get to be in the world. And it should change who and. Who and how we are in the world. And the other thing that I've been thinking a lot about lately, because in one of the interviews I did after the book came out, somebody asked me about the big saints and the big martyrs, you know, the real holy people.
- [14:54]
Marty Solomon
Yeah.
- [14:55]
Karen Stiller
And I. What. What occurred to me was that we might actually be those people too, given the right opportunity. And we always tell each other that we're all capable of anything. Right. And whenever we say that, or in my experience, we're talking about the bad stuff, I can do anything. I am capable of anything. But I would love for us to remind each other that we're all capable of anything with the good stuff, too. We can all live, you know, with God's grace, with accepting our own holiness and moving out of the. Into the world with it. We can actually do beautiful things, too. And that is amazing. That's a beautiful, adventurous, Loving life.
- [15:41]
Marty Solomon
That's very Bama esque. I love, I love that. I love the word participation. We use the word partnership a lot on the podcast. Another word that I love that I probably don't use on the podcast as much. But often when I'm going around, I love the idea of participation. It seems like so much of what we do theologically is disembodied. Like it's just this disembodied theology. So I love language that suggests participating in the things that we're talking about, participating in the stuff that we're examining in theology. And I did love just that part of this is such a good part of what you were talking about in that book. And I do, man, sometimes I wonder how much the saint conversation, the real saints would change if we saw the way. I can't imagine what God sees when he exam like sees all the moments that nobody else would ever see, sees all the moments from a different perspective that even if we were watching, we wouldn't see but moments that we really rise to sainthood but we would never give ourselves credit for and nobody else would really see it. But I wonder if sometimes you would pull back the curtain and go, oh, let me give you my hall of fame. Um, let me, let me tell you what I see. And I think we'd be surprised even at just of our own lives.
- [16:58]
Karen Stiller
I agree. And I think it's, it's. We all know we're not. We all know we're called to humility, we all know we're not going to go around boasting about the good deeds we do, etc. But it's also, I think it's honoring to God to say you are a more patient person than you were 20 years ago. You have to be.
- [17:18]
Marty Solomon
Yeah.
- [17:18]
Karen Stiller
You know, I am a more generous person now than I used to be because of what God has done in my life. But because I've tried, I tried to be more generous. So I think that's a really important part of this too.
- [17:32]
Marty Solomon
You're such a good Anglican. Didn't you say in the book that you come from an Anglican faith tradition? I love it. I love it. I have a lot of Anglican friends, but I've never planted my feet in that tradition. But I love that part of reading that. It made me smile over and over again. This reminds me so much of so and so.
- [17:48]
Karen Stiller
Well, we're everywhere.
- [17:50]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
- [17:51]
Karen Stiller
Actually, one thing that my nav Practice wonderful editor asked me to do in revision was, you know, not toned down to Anglicanism, but step up the, you know, mentions of There are other ways.
- [18:05]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, I do love that.
- [18:07]
Karen Stiller
I love that.
- [18:08]
Brent Billings
Well, I mean, I don't know if this particular moment in the book came out of the Anglican tradition, but I was sitting alone in a room and I did speak of my own holiness out loud as you directed. So thank you for that. I think I have a lot more work to do on that particular front, on the personal holiness front. But as I've been reading, I've been looking back on some bigger moments that I think were profoundly holy. And I just did not have all the right words to put to that. And you've helped me put some words to that. But then I've also been examining all these smaller moments in my life where like, oh, was that. And so I'm starting to recognize some of these things. Your book's been out for, I think about a year. By the time this episode comes out, I assume you've started to hear some feedback from people who have gone through that process. What are some of the cool stories that you've heard of people recognizing holiness? And then how have those stories turned around and helped you recognize other moments of holiness that you hadn't seen before?
- [19:10]
Karen Stiller
Yeah, that's a great question. I've heard. The thing I hear most often is, you know, people are so kind and they say thank you for helping them see that they are holy. So just that very basic sense of identity. And then I don't think I've heard too many stories about people like, you know, stepping in front of a bus for someone else. But maybe I wouldn't hear that story anyway. But I sense that people, the people who have reached out to me, feel often seen by my actually sharing of my so called failures. Right. That's a part of my work, when I share my inner gremlin. I think I used the term at one point. How grouchy I can be, how difficult church life can be for me, or has been for me. I was married to my husband, was an Anglican priest for, you know, 30 years. So I had a lot of like hot house growth.
- [20:15]
Marty Solomon
Yeah.
- [20:15]
Karen Stiller
By being a pastor's wife, which, you know, was beautiful, but hard. And so when again that idea of telling the truth. So I get a lot of, you know, appreciation, which I'm very grateful for because it helps me keep being brave to tell the truth about our, my inner message, but also how God is helping me clear up that mess sometimes. So I love that because actually that helps me, like when someone says me too. I feel seen. Well, I feel seen then. And I'm so relieved. So I'm very grateful for that.
- [20:52]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, I was one of my. Yeah, I just keep saying this, but it was. One of my favorite parts of what you did in the book was that. I think that's what I meant when I said holiness isn't just big in your book. It's also small because you would talk about these, like, very small, very normal moments, but you also would connect with, like, in this moment, I failed, but then later it'd be like. But in this moment, I succeeded.
- [21:13]
Karen Stiller
Yeah.
- [21:13]
Marty Solomon
And I'm being changed, and I'm coming to grips with my own holiness. And it was just so like that. It wasn't like something else. I had to. It was just a very human, everyday, common. And I'm like, this is the kind of book on holiness. All right, Karen, So we have a. We have a. We have a member of our teaching team here that you probably don't know. His name's Reed, and Reid loves Frederick Buechner. I don't think he can. He just has to. Like, he has to. He quotes Buechner in his sleep, I think. Yeah. It's an addiction and he's out of control. So I believe you made in your book at least one, if not a couple, two or three references to Beekt in your book and his influence on your own writing and work and craft. And that was funny. Because of my good friend and buddy Reid, I've read more Beechner than I probably would otherwise. And I kept thinking to myself, reading your book like this feels Beechneresque. This feels like I'm reading Beechner and did I remember that correctly? Is he an influence? And maybe can you speak to that? Or maybe there's even others like him who are the writers that have influenced you because it came out of your work. I feel like.
- [22:26]
Karen Stiller
Well, yeah, I'm a huge Speak fan. For me, with him, it was the beauty of the writing. I remember just being struck by the poetic honesty, the ordinary stories again, I think, you know, the struggle of relationship in his life, the reality of church ministry, all of those things. So I loved reading him. I would never have thought about writing like him. But, you know, writers read or they need to, and that does shape us and form us and. And forms us, you know, as believers, too. Like, I'm. I love the idea, and I've been thinking about it a lot lately, about how books form us and which books form us. So I. Anyway, I love to talk about that. So. Yeah. And the part I write about in the book. I'm talking about reading one of his books because he had just died. And, you know, he explains how to do the. You know, the cross when you use your hands to cross yourself. I don't even know what to call it, which I've always wanted to do but felt silly doing. And I'm always afraid I'm going to go the wrong direction.
- [23:40]
Marty Solomon
Are you Catholic or Eastern Orthodox? Which one is it?
- [23:43]
Karen Stiller
Yeah, exactly. And that would be a part of the book where I questioned myself as a writer later and thought, am I being self indulgent here? But I. It did. You know, it led to the giving away of the stamp story, which I thought was important to share.
- [23:56]
Marty Solomon
Oh, goodness, I forgot. Yeah, absolutely.
- [23:59]
Karen Stiller
So Anne Lamott is another influence on me.
- [24:03]
Marty Solomon
Yeah. Okay.
- [24:04]
Karen Stiller
When I read her for the first time, I remember thinking, oh, we get to be this honest. So that was like, wow. And I just. Yeah, I just loved her grit and her humor. And it felt like she was her voice and her voice was her. And that was a big lesson for me. Like, as. As a writer, we talk about our voice, and my voice is very. You know, it's. It is who I am. People say when they read my book, they'll say, oh, I feel like I know you. And it's like, well, you kind of do now. You kind of do know me. And I think that's the best way to write this kind of writing, at least. So, yeah, she was a big influence. And I just. I'm reading all the time. I'm. I'm kind of. We mentioned the death of my husband. I'm still recovering from that and kind of building a new life, which includes a lot of reading, I hope, and. And more writing. So I continue to be shaped by what I read. And I think that's so exciting for all of us to do that.
- [25:12]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it's funny that I picked up on that even before you mentioned reading him. I was like, this is like, what Can I compare that? What am I. What's this experience like? I'm like. It's like the same feeling I have when I'm reading. Just poetic. Great. Well, well versed. That sentence was just written in such a way it didn't have to be written that way, but it was written. That's what Buechner does. Like, he'll just write something that could be said a normal way, but he'll say it in some beautifully unnormal way that makes you go, oh, that's just so. And that was funny when you said the name. I was like, oh, she does read Buechner. There you go.
- [25:49]
Karen Stiller
He was a monster.
- [25:50]
Marty Solomon
And I don't give away. I'm not the kind of guy that just buys copies of books and gives them away to everybody because I know people give me books, like, every time I turn the corner. So I hate it when people say, I don't want to be that guy. But I have. There are people that really like. I gave a copy to Reed and his wife because they love Buechner so much. And I did buy a little, small, little case of holiness here to give out to all those people that don't that read those kind of books that they could enjoy it. And it was a lot of fun to. I haven't heard back from some of them yet, but I'm anxious for them to tell me what they thought.
- [26:26]
Karen Stiller
Well, thank you, Marty. I wish I had a friend who gave me books. That's a good way to be in the world.
- [26:33]
Marty Solomon
I'll start a pipeline. And you are not going to love what comes down it, but I'll just forward right to your email address.
- [26:40]
Karen Stiller
Oh, that's great. Love it.
- [26:42]
Marty Solomon
Brent, you got anything? Give me some last questions here for Karen before we wrap things up with her time.
- [26:48]
Brent Billings
Well, jumping all the way back to the beginning, Karen, you said that you like taking walks.
- [26:52]
Marty Solomon
Ooh, I like that.
- [26:53]
Brent Billings
I also love. What is a walk like for you? Do you. Do you have, like, a specific route that you always go, or do you try to go new places all the time? What do you do on your walk?
- [27:04]
Marty Solomon
And Karen, this isn't just a filler question either. Like, Brent really does like this question's coming from. Yeah, this is real question here.
- [27:12]
Karen Stiller
Good. No, I. And I am receiving it as such, because I have thought about this. So walking is a huge part of my writing life, actually. I do a lot of thinking and there's. As you must know, Brent, there's lots of good science behind that, how walking feeds our creativity. So I. I live right downtown Ottawa, and it's, you know, one of those combo neighborhoods, gritty and hippie and, you know, all those things. So I actually, I love. I love city walking. And I prefer it, actually, because I have zero sense of direction and I'm. I know not to go into the woods alone. So I like, you know, tromping around downtown Ottawa. And sometimes I remind myself, I often I'm listening to a podcast. That's when I do podcasts, listening. But sometimes I deliberately don't do that. So I can pay attention to my city and listen to the sounds of my city and notice what is happening. So I really like that. But this past summer I also did a walk in England with a friend of mine. We did a like a self directed hike through the Cotswolds. And that was really harder than we thought it would be. Like we did like 18-20km a day. And at the end of the day I was like, what is wrong with my feet?
- [28:36]
Brent Billings
Yeah, no kidding.
- [28:37]
Karen Stiller
But we still, you know, it was an open door to me to a new way of traveling, which I really want to keep doing. So. So I'm determined to do that again. But yeah, I just. It's a great thinking time, it's a great writing time, and it's a great reminding myself of who my city is time.
- [28:58]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, I did enjoy a vacation in the UK this last. And we should have done more walking. I should have had Reid do this interview. He just went over to like the Alps and they did a big hike through whatever and he did that where it was 18, 15, 18 kilometers a day. You hiked to the next little lodging spot and you hiked to the next little lodging spot and golly, what a. What a fun way to do it. I'm not sure my kids would have loved that. They did love the hike we did up to King Arthur's Rest in Edinburgh.
- [29:26]
Karen Stiller
So that's cool.
- [29:28]
Marty Solomon
Maybe they would have enjoyed a hike more than I give them credit for. I always think my kids are going to complain.
- [29:33]
Karen Stiller
I shouldn't assume that kids complain. Kids do complain. But then they surprise us. They surprise us.
- [29:39]
Marty Solomon
They sure do. But. Well, I. Yeah, I just. Such a great work. Tell me more, Karen, about what other and. And please go crazy here, like, because I want to know. I now selfishly need to do all the research and find all the other books you've written and dig into those as well. What are some of the other works you've mentioned? A couple of them already, but tell us what you've worked on, your other projects. Just share any of that stuff.
- [30:06]
Karen Stiller
Okay, thank you. So my first published book that I wrote all alone on my own was the Minister's Wife and it's a spiritual memoir. And that came out in 2020, just about a month after the pandemic came out. But I mentioned I wrote that book during this Master of Fine Arts I was doing. And for me that experience was writing a spiritual work in which I'd given myself permission to write, you know, anything I wanted to do because it was my own program. It Wasn't, you know, I wasn't assigned this topic or anything and writing it in a, actually a very secular university graduate school environment. And again, seeing the power, the positive power of being honest with stories that these people who had been pretty suspicious of me as a Christian coming in as a pastor's wife, like I could tell I was their first pastor's wife and I was, you know, freaking them out, really ended up connecting. We ended up connecting and becoming great friends through, again through the power of honest storytelling. So anyway, that, that's a little aside about that book. And then I've done a writing book called Craft Cost and Call how to Build a Life as a Christian Writer with a friend of friend of mine. I love doing good work with other people. That's. Well, look at you guys co hosting this podcast, right? It's always better to do something with someone else, I think.
- [31:30]
Marty Solomon
Always.
- [31:31]
Karen Stiller
Yeah.
- [31:31]
Marty Solomon
Can you imagine the Baymont podcast without Brent Billings? Goodness gracious, everybody. What a travesty. That would be unbelievable.
- [31:37]
Karen Stiller
I do enjoy how you guys work together. I've been listening and experiencing this. It really works.
- [31:43]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, thank you. We have enjoyed it. So who did you write that with?
- [31:47]
Karen Stiller
Oh, my friend Patricia Patty. So she's another very experienced Canadian writer and we've done lots of projects together over the years. When something's too big for one of us, we bring the other person in and we, we do, we work well together. So that's a great relationship. And then the other books I've done have been more like I've been hired to do them, but they've all involved, you know, the church around the world or the church in Canada. So I've always stayed in that world and I like that. What I'm hoping to do now I mentioned I've done kind of a reset. So I've left my full time job as a editor of a Canadian Christian magazine and host of a podcast. And I'm hoping to be a writing coach more deliberately and you know, and, and also do the writing that I hope that I have in me to do. That's my big plan. And I'm thinking about a, a podcast around the theme of books that form us. So I'm playing with that idea again with a friend who knows how to do things. So yeah, I'm, I've got a lot of projects in my head and I'm hoping to launch into this new season of creativity and, you know, healing and just being, being and doing.
- [33:02]
Marty Solomon
I love that. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't Expect to selfishly start taking notes on that list. But I happen to know a bearded guy who may need a writing coach in the future, so who knows? Especially one that could teach me how to. She'll probably tell me. I have to start reading fiction, though.
- [33:18]
Karen Stiller
One a year is good enough. Marty, I would love to work with you.
- [33:23]
Marty Solomon
It'd be so much fun. We would enjoy that, I'm sure.
- [33:26]
Brent Billings
Yeah. Who gets to pick the one book, though? Is that Karen's choice?
- [33:30]
Karen Stiller
If she's the coach, I think his wife.
- [33:32]
Marty Solomon
I would trust her. I think I would trust her. Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:34]
Karen Stiller
Oh, yeah. Okay. I always used to order my husband to read a novel every now and then, so I totally get that.
- [33:42]
Marty Solomon
You know, my wife has gotten into reading fiction. She won't. I see. I always tried to get her to read nonfiction. You gotta read this book. It's just not her thing. And this last year, she got into reading fiction and a lot of fantasy genre stuff, and she's just. She probably read more. I think this is true, Brent. She read more books than I did last year, all fiction. And I kind of love seeing that. It's a lot of fun. So she might have more recommendations in the fiction world than I would give her credit for. She's dragging me through Brandon Sanderson right now. So we're right in the middle of the Oathbringer, the third of the Cosmere. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever Way of Kings series. So you can tell I'm totally invested.
- [34:24]
Karen Stiller
It's so great that you're doing that together. I love that.
- [34:27]
Marty Solomon
Yeah. It's one of the things. We've decided that when we go on long road trips, the kids are going to put their AirPods in anyway, so we might as well throw an audiobook on. And she doesn't want to do anything other than fiction, so it works out.
- [34:39]
Karen Stiller
Oh, that's nice. That's very sweet.
- [34:41]
Brent Billings
I guess you haven't been logging those on your Goodreads, though. You don't count them in that way.
- [34:48]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, I guess I haven't been. Are audiobooks real? I'm not an audiobook guy. See, Brent likes the digital copy stuff. I'm a paper book. Karen, are you a paper book person?
- [34:57]
Karen Stiller
I am. I listened to my first audiobook recently, and I'm doing a Doctor of Ministry in the Sacred Art of Writing at Western Seminary, and so this is one of the books we have to read for our next thing, and I. My mind kept wandering, so I. Yeah, I am not sure it's for me.
- [35:15]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, I'm. I'm there with you. It's probably why it doesn't register to put it on Goodreads. That feels like a different kind of a discipline for some reason.
- [35:21]
Brent Billings
But to be clear, I am not an audiobook person. I am an E book person.
- [35:26]
Marty Solomon
Ebook. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
- [35:28]
Karen Stiller
Yeah.
- [35:28]
Brent Billings
Audiobooks. I mean, I listen to so many podcasts that when I want to read a book, I feel like I actually want to read it. So it's not. It's not that I necessarily have anything against audiobooks. It's just not how I want to engage a book. So, yeah, I don't know. Certainly works for people, and I think it works more for fiction, like the Brandon Sanderson series specifically. I've heard many people talk about how good the audiobook versions of those are.
- [35:53]
Marty Solomon
They are well read and well produced. That's true. Well, Karen, where can people find you if they wanted to? You have a website out there. Where are the connection points that they have to get connected to you and. Or your work?
- [36:03]
Karen Stiller
Yeah, I do, Karen. Stiller.com. that's sort of headquarters, so that's the best place to go. And I mean, I'm on Instagram, but honestly, it's pictures of my dog.
- [36:13]
Brent Billings
Hey, some people might be looking for that.
- [36:17]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, absolutely. Is that. Is that the Bull Bastiff dog, your son's dog, or do you have your own dog?
- [36:22]
Karen Stiller
Yeah, no, no, it's. I. I've. I've co opted it. Russell.
- [36:25]
Marty Solomon
I love that. I'm gonna go find your. Your Instagram right now. I love Bullmastiff.
- [36:30]
Karen Stiller
Okay, good. So there's that. And I'm on substack, but that's also easily findable through my website. So. Yeah. And I do love to hear from readers, I think, and I'm sure you do too, Marty. Like, it's such a great conversation to have. And so I. I do. I always answer and I'm always happy to hear from people.
- [36:49]
Marty Solomon
Love it. That's great.
- [36:50]
Brent Billings
Well, Karen, it has been a pleasure speaking with you and hearing your story and getting the opportunity, I'll say opportunity, to examine my own life and try to recognize my own holiness. And I hope that other people have the chance to do that too.
- [37:06]
Karen Stiller
Thank you. You are holy, Brent. You are a holy man.
- [37:10]
Brent Billings
Oh, thank you. I am. I do podcasts with shoes off, if that. Al was here recording with me the other day and pointed that out. I was like, yeah, that's why I do it. Yeah, this is holy ground. Yeah. It's really just for sound purposes, but but I'll take. I'll take the win.
- [37:28]
Karen Stiller
Good. Good.
- [37:29]
Marty Solomon
That's the small things.
- [37:30]
Brent Billings
Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll have links to all those things we talked about in the show Notes. Listeners can find that@baymontoception.com or in their podcast app. If you want to get a hold of us, you can use the contact page on our website. Of course, feel free to reach out to Karen as well. If you have any thoughts about the book or anything else you want to share, ask about. She has graciously said that she'd love to hear from you, so don't hesitate for that. But thank you all listeners for joining us on the Bama podcast today. We'll talk to you again soon.