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- [00:00]
Marty Solomon
Foreign. This is the Baymo Podcast with Marty Solomon. I'm his co host, Brent Billings. Today we are joined by Ashley island, author of say Good and someone who seeks to join in God's redemptive work on Earth. Ashley is the head of school at Livingstones Academy and formerly served as co lead pastor at Mars Hill Bible Church in West Michigan. Ashley and her family live in Grand Rapids. Ashley, welcome to the show.
- [00:29]
Ashley Island
Thanks for having me. Brett and Marty, it's a pleasure to join you.
- [00:32]
Marty Solomon
And the introduction that I give is always, you know, somewhat basic and approved by publishers and highlighting the things that they think are important and whatever, but what do you think is important to know about who you are and what you bring to the world?
- [00:46]
Ashley Island
Oh, there's so many things I could say, but at this point in my life I'm an elder millennial who was born and raised in Houston, Texas. I went to university in Los Angeles. My first career was in human resources with a Fortune 500 company with Nestle USA. I supported the Wonka Factory for a bit. True story. And somehow have found my roots here. New roots in the Midwest. And so based on how I grew up, I grew up with two parents who loved me very much. I grew up as a single child and so found myself formed in aloneness and kind of finding my own dialogue, my self dialogue as my best friend. I didn't have imaginary friends, but I went to a Catholic school during the week in a black Baptist church on the weekends. And so I have been formed by many streams. I think that's one thing that's important to know about me is that I see an appreciation in the multifaceted view of the church and have found myself enthralled with and in awe of many different cultural backgrounds. And so I, that's part of what's formed me right now. I'm the mom of three beautiful kids. My oldest is 10. She's awesome. She wants to be a fashion designer. My nine year old son wants to be a theorist and just theorize all the things. He's very good at thinking, he tells me. And so he just wants to think for a living. And my youngest, oh my gosh, my youngest came to us through adoption. She's six. And so she is teaching me every day what it means to come into oneself and find home and family when bloodline isn't always part of the story. And so she's our, yeah, she's our performer in our in house entertainment. She's exuberant and loves singing and dancing. So we have a really fun house. And my husband is a worship pastor still at the church where I formerly worked. And so our home is fun and jovial, and I love that I can.
- [03:05]
Brent Billings
Remember and I know our listeners have heard this like five, six, seven times. I'm running out of authors that I met at the authors retreat, but Ashley was another one of those new friends that I met at the Nav Press author retreat. We came in, we sat in this room in a circle of chairs and did the typical introduce yourself and start telling jokes. And we got to know each other and form all these brand new friendships. And in this circle was Ashley. I didn't know who she was. And you embodied a lot of the stuff that we're gonna talk talk about today in your book, which hopefully you receive as a wonderful compliment that is intended as. But you took up space just so beautifully in that room and in that conversation. And then we kept talking and the more we talked, the more we were like, oh, we could be best friends.
- [03:51]
Ashley Island
Oh, yeah.
- [03:52]
Brent Billings
And you worked alongside of. We had AJ Sherrill on a few months ago, the podcast. And you guys were, at that point, you were together at Mars Hill Bible Church, which was always kind of one of my favorite churches from my adolescence. And so just all these fun connections and it was really, really great to make a new friend that day. And it's been fun to keep moving along in life and see what you're up to.
- [04:16]
Ashley Island
Yeah, it's been really interesting since that time, Marty, because I feel like I have siblings kind of scattered all over the nation and in some cases the world because of that, that one touch point. And something really special was formed and stitched during that time. And I'm so glad we're all continuing to keep in touch in our own unique way. So thank you. Thank you for that.
- [04:39]
Marty Solomon
And we're here to talk about all sorts of things, but one of them is the book that we've referenced a couple times already. Say Good. Can you tell us a little bit about the book? Doesn't necessarily have to be an elevator pitch, doesn't have to be that short, but just some kind of an overview of what this work is about.
- [04:54]
Ashley Island
Yeah. I think the most important thing to say about say Good is why I chose to write it. If we can imagine ourselves back in 2020 during quarantine, and at that point, there are a lot of headlines, particularly in the social media space, that were focused on racial justice, There was one particular head time at that moment, in that moment where I had friends reaching out to me specifically Saying, ashley, we want to do something about this, we want to speak up, but we also don't want to be performative in how we advocate for biblical justice. And there was this real tension. And one thing I think that's important to note here is that most of those friends who were reaching out were white women. And I felt that tension with them. And I chose in that moment not to kind of give a short answer to say, here, go do this. Here's a list of things you can do, but to wrestle with them, which became really important to how this book was formed. And I remember taking out a napkin and saying, how do we know? How do I know when I want to show up to a particular space, in many cases that is social media, and say certain things that feel honoring and true to who I was created to be, but that also lend to my unique voice that I feel I've cultivated in the world for the sake of God's people and to the glory of God. And so I took that napkin scribble scratch and I formed it into this structure that makes up, say, good to say. Really there are these four lenses or pillars that we can think through. And they're not exhaustive, they're not all the pillars we could think through in the world. But I really wanted to write this book for people who maybe weren't in theological intellectual spaces all the time. I wanted to write this for the everyday person as an on ramp to start thinking more critically about how we show up to spaces and speak. And so the book is organized into these four pillars. Fashion, accountability, influence and relationship. And because the original title was Talking the Tightrope, Little Known Fact, you'll see this and read this imagery of tightrope walking woven throughout. And so that's one of the top questions that I get is like, what's up with the tightrope motif? Like, it's kind of random and it kind of comes out of nowhere. But I was thinking through one of my most beloved books as a child called Miret on the High Wire. And when I try to embody and imagine the feeling that I get and try to imagine the feeling that my friends felt in trying to navigate and steward something well and faithfully, I do feel like I'm walking a tightrope. I'm trying to find this balance and sometimes it's between two very different things. But I wanted to invite the reader to feel and not just read and receive intellectually, but to feel viscerally and to engage with the heart isn't one.
- [08:11]
Brent Billings
Of the Hardest things about being an author that I've already learned twice now is the title.
- [08:16]
Ashley Island
Oh, gosh, it's awful.
- [08:19]
Brent Billings
It's like you carry this child to term, and then somebody's like, I'll name that. Thank you very much.
- [08:23]
Ashley Island
Yes. I don't know. It's like a Zechariah John thing or what. I don't know if there's any, like, metaphor to find there. But, you know, you have to write towards. With something in mind. And so I wrote toward the original title. And then you have an amazing team, marketing and publicists and people coming in saying that's actually not gonna work for SEO or for searches online. And so you kind of have to release that part of the art to a team, and it is very difficult. But that's why it's so important to do this work with people you trust.
- [08:58]
Brent Billings
That's true. Cause it's always the right decision.
- [09:00]
Ashley Island
That's right.
- [09:01]
Brent Billings
Well, I can remember when I read it, I was like, she did it. She wrote a book about one of the things that we all struggle with, like, so much that we want to be like, we want to get this. We want to get this right. We want to do this. This. Well, I love the structure. Anybody that's been through Bama far enough knows that we're a big fan of four pillars. So you had me at four pillars and just a wonder, and I loved how those came together, and I want to talk some more about that. But first of all, the world has, like. I mean, you mentioned the point in history which you wrote this, but the world's continued to move on since you've written this book. And I'm just. One of my personal wonderings is, do you still feel the same ways that you felt when you wrote it? Has anything changed? Do you believe in it even more? Has it been hard to hold to some of those convictions? I just know a lot of spaces that I'm in. Some folks say they're despairing or losing hope or changing tactics or whatever it would be. And where have you found yourself in that wrestling match?
- [10:01]
Ashley Island
That's a great question. I remember having conversations with my editor about how I tend to write evergreen material.
- [10:10]
Brent Billings
Yep.
- [10:11]
Ashley Island
And both fortunately and unfortunately, this title is evergreen for the moment we're in now.
- [10:20]
Brent Billings
Yeah.
- [10:20]
Ashley Island
So if I think about what's written in some ways, and this is an honest confession, I feel like if I were to have started writing this right now, about a year after publication date, I would probably write with a little bit more urgency. I feel like if I Imagine this book as a part of the house. It's probably the living room. It's got a lot of good cushioning to it. There's warmth to it, to the writing. I mean, I talk about power dynamics using my dogs as an example, because in some ways, I'm taking the hand of the reader and I'm leading them some, maybe for the first time, into the concept of power and how to steward that well. How to see it without shame, but to steward it well. So in some ways, I feel like I was tiptoeing around some really important topics. And I think if I were to start writing it now, I would write with a bit more urgency. I think I would take a very Pauline stance and approach to it and have lots of run on sentences because I want to get so much out and speak to not just how to do it well, but why it is so important. And one thing I regret is, I mean, I don't reference the message version of the text almost ever, but I fell in love with one proverb written in the message version. It was Proverbs 18:22, and it says, words kill, words give life. They're either poison or fruit. You choose.
- [11:59]
Brent Billings
Yeah. Yeah.
- [12:00]
Ashley Island
So I wish I would have written to the agency. We have to create worlds with our words.
- [12:06]
Brent Billings
Yeah.
- [12:07]
Ashley Island
And how that is a direct reflection of Creator God. And why. Why a thoughtfulness and an attentiveness to our words matters more than ever. So I think it would. In many ways, I still resonate with the book that I wrote, and I do think it's applicable to now. I think I would have written it with more sharpness. And instead of being the living room, it would probably be the kitchen.
- [12:32]
Brent Billings
Sure.
- [12:32]
Ashley Island
Where I would encourage a very intentional process of cleansing and cutting and pruning. And I would just probably use more language that speaks to the urgency that I feel now.
- [12:46]
Brent Billings
Yeah. Well said.
- [12:47]
Marty Solomon
On the other side of the words, the actions of what we talk about very early in the book, you're talking about the common phrase thoughts and prayers and what we actually mean with those two words. And this was just like, this is the smallest little part, but like, this one sentence just stuck out and slapped me across the face in a bama language way, because we talk about partnership and how God is looking for partners. And what you said is here, even if we believe in and are assured of prayer, spiritual power, we use prayer as an excuse to shrink away from our participation in God's work. And I, boy, I loved that. And the idea of, like, yeah, if we're going to offer these prayers. It doesn't actually mean anything if we're not willing to partner with God in doing something about it. Not that we can do something about everything we pray about. That's something you get into later is like you can't speak to every single thing. You told a story about, how you spoke out about one particular thing that happened and then something else happened and somebody's like, hey, how come you didn't say anything about that? It's like, well, I can't say something about everything. So not that we're putting the entire weight of everything on everything we pray about, but if we never take action, if we never participate in God's work. Tell me a little bit about your experiences with that and what it's like when your prayers have turned into action.
- [14:11]
Ashley Island
Oh, I love that question, Brent. And here's why. I often saw myself as outsourcing the redemption of the world to God because I knew God was powerful enough. But something changed for me when I realized that maybe God wants to partner with me. And the idea that I could be part of the answer to the prayer that I pray was a complete shift. So, you know, I talk a little bit about Paul's concept of the body of Christ a little bit later on in the book. But there have been times where, like for example, here at the school, we had a family whose the mother in the family gave birth to twins. And a week later, this was last year, last March, she passed away a week after giving birth to these twins. And I remember our community showing up here at school and praying for comfort for the family, praying that this now single father of four children would be provided for. And those prayers were earnest and they were sincere and they were meaningful. And it was, it did something to my faith to see our community show up and pray in that way. On the other side of that coin, it also did something to see our community say, how do we provide a new house for this family? How can we use our connections and our influence to provide a space that feels like the right size and to take away the burden of a mortgage for this family? How can we show up and mark the moment a year later? So we just planted a new tree in our front lawn in the school. After one tree died, we said, okay, how can we help mark this moment a year later for this family? And so we created a liturgy around the one year mark for this family. So even as I pray, I am encouraged by the spirit to say, even you may not be the fullness of the answer, but I am empowering you to perhaps be part of the answer and that discernment, to know what is completely given over in prayer and to where my feet and my heart and my intellect can be part of up. Showing up for the sake of justice, for the sake of comfort, for the sake of stitching things back together that have been broken is something I'm. I'm learning to pay attention to as a result of being the, the author of this book. It's a challenge. I'm. I'm encouraging myself to show up in ways that I encourage my, my reader and to say, you know, things across the world. I may not be able to do anything about war in a very, you know, practical way, but I can look at my immediate surroundings and that's where the influence pillar comes in to say, where can I show up and partner with God?
- [17:10]
Brent Billings
Yeah, I love that. I want to ask a question that feels. It'll probably feel like it's a categorical shift, but I don't mean it to be because I know your life doesn't. None of our lives fit into perfect category. So I'm thinking about how this question relates to everything we've been talking about, everything you wrote about. But you used to occupy a particular space in the local church ecclesiological fellowship. We mentioned you were the co pastor at Mars Hill, a larger church that recently changed. What's it been like to find a new space? What have you learned about yourself and about life? And I asked that question kind of adjacent to all those other things that we're talking about. Like, I'm sure that's impacted the way that you are in a room or the way that you use your, the pillars that you talk about. It has an impact on all those pillars of your passions and your influence. And what has that been like as you found a new space in relation to these things? Yeah.
- [18:05]
Ashley Island
I'll really break this down into two pieces. First and foremost, I have to say that my transition away from church leadership coincided with probably the most intense grief journey that I've had in my life. And so kind of simultaneously as I'm discerning my role in part in the church. And Marty, you were around for some of this because when we first met, it was right after my first cousin died by suicide. And then a month after his funeral was my father's funeral and he passed relatively unexpectedly. And the Monday after his funeral, I was diagnosed with lupus. And so I can't talk about the transition without mentioning the role of grief.
- [18:59]
Brent Billings
Right.
- [19:00]
Ashley Island
Grief personified for Me has been. There's a journalist who talks about grief as his tiger, that at any point, that tiger could reach out and hurt him. But it's his. It's a constant companion. And so there's an endearing intimacy that has formed me over the past couple of years more than anything else. A lot of the pithy platitudes around grief just aren't true. Like, it didn't get better after a year.
- [19:35]
Brent Billings
Right.
- [19:35]
Ashley Island
Year two was the hardest. It was harder than year one. I'm learning to occupy my physical body differently. I. I'm in a new relationship with my body because of its limitations now with an autoimmune disease.
- [19:48]
Brent Billings
Yeah.
- [19:49]
Ashley Island
And so alongside a vocational shift came almost this wilderness where the Lord was forming me in every way possible. Every way possible. And so I don't say yes to as many things as I used to. I rest more than I ever have. I'm more honest about my limitations up front. Whereas in some ways, being part of mega church world lends itself to this temptation that you can do a mega lot.
- [20:21]
Brent Billings
Yeah. Right.
- [20:22]
Ashley Island
And so I'd say that leads to the second piece of what it's been like being at a small school. Our school is an elementary school with 285 kids. Right. Three of those kids are mine. So I get to see them every day. And to go from mega to the minutia of small community has been one of the greatest joys of my life. I love serving and leading with gifts that were formed in large spaces and with this big spotlight. I love serving in a small, literally a community that's tucked into a neighborhood so most people don't know we exist. We are surrounded by a community garden and home and a dog park. I love being able to serve with the gifts I've been given in a way that in many parts are unseen. There is no podcast recording of me giving a sermon every week. There's not as much video footage anymore. And I'm not just okay with it. I feel like that's been part of God's kindness to me in the past couple of years. I'm more empathetic. I feel like I can walk with people in grief differently now than I had been able to in the past couple of years. Even with pastoral ministry as part of my role, I just show up differently. I'm a softer human being because of that transition. And it's not because my pastoral role wasn't important. It's just I've come into a different part of myself that God's been forming all Along.
- [21:58]
Brent Billings
That's an encouraging word for probably anybody in the midst of different transitions and its relationship to grief, too. That's two good words. I like that.
- [22:07]
Marty Solomon
Yeah, I loved your conversation about balance and saying no, especially somebody who barely knows what it means to say no. I think I'm getting better at that. I don't know if I really am. That conversation is always a struggle, though. Like, what do you, do you think you needed some of those things to happen to teach you? Were you already working in that direction? And what is your background with saying no? Was there a time in your life where you didn't know how to say no? You literally said yes to everything. And then how, how long has that transition taken? Like that, you know, a couple of years ago was, was like a big turning point. But, like, how long has that work taken in your life?
- [22:52]
Ashley Island
I'd say it's taken a good 10 years, Brent. And I don't know if that's good news to our listeners or not, depending on everyone's age. But I remember, I mean, some of the spaces I mentioned earlier about where I was formed. I went to an all girl, pretty prestigious Catholic school from K through 12. So there was excellence instilled in us there. And then I went to a private university out in la, went to usc, excellence there. I worked right out of college for a Fortune 500 excellence there. I was trained and formed to be excellent and to have no cracks. And part of what I learned, it meant to be excellent was to say yes and to prove that my shoulders were broad. I wasn't taught that no could actually be one of the healthiest words I could use as a leader. And so from about 22 to my mid-30s, so maybe a little bit longer than 10 years, probably 12, I would try on saying yes. And then that transformed to, yeah, maybe this will be fun. And then I would have that sinking feeling on the day of a commitment that I made going like, I really don't want to do this. But it took, it took mentorship. It took people speaking into my life, telling me I was doing too much, showing me the toll it was taking on my health and my family, to go, no, I really need to, to get a hold on this as part of a discipline, a practice in my life to see what, what God is trying to continue to shape even in the know, even in the rest. So I remember three years ago, we do a, we do a practice that some people might love, some people hate it, but for our family, it works because we have little kids, but we Pick a word for the year. And one of my year was no. One of, one of my words that year was no. And I remember my mother asking, do you mean K, n o, W or n o? And I said, n o the day after this was, this was the first week of January. I had 13 invitations to speak at different places. And it was perfect timing because I said, if this doesn't bring my family life and fall right into the middle of my gift mix, for me to be able to do these things, well, I've got to say no to it. I said yes to two of those things. So over time, you know, I kind of had to keep running into the pit a little bit of my continued yeses. And then in community, I realized this is actually making me less effective as a leader, not more impressive. And so now I usually say no to things unless I can travel with my husband. And that's time for us to be together on a trip. And we can serve in ministry at the same time because it pours into our marriage or I can take my kids along and it becomes a family building opportunity. And we now have my mother since my dad passed and I'm an only child. She's with us now as well. So I look more holistically at the impact of my yes. It's not just about me anymore. It is about the ripple effects that that yes or no have on the extension of me, my immediate family. And that changed the game completely. And then now with an autoimmune disease, the last thing I'll say is I've been forced into know a lot where it's not about my will, it's about my body's physical ability to do something. And that's changed the dimension of this learning for me as well. So in many ways it's been a 12 year process, but it's taken on many different shapes and forms and flavors. But I find joy, the joy in missing out. I know people have thrown that phrase around a lot. I find so much joy in saying no because I know my yeses mean so much more.
- [27:08]
Marty Solomon
And I suppose there's a big element of self assessment there, being honest with yourself instead of, yeah, I could probably do that if I put the effort into it. And being honest with like, nope, that's not really what I'm called to. That's not who I am. I'm not the right person for this.
- [27:25]
Ashley Island
100%, Brent. And let me tell you this, it's not even just, could I do it. I'm now getting more comfortable with Tapping into my desire. Do I want to? And what does that communicate? I'm moving away from shoulds and going, lord, help me, help me find the right relationship to the desires you've placed within me and the well formed ones that are really there to protect me. And so I think that's hard to. That was a hard lesson learned as well. But part of that recipe is becoming my desire and that's been really informative too.
- [27:58]
Brent Billings
Well, I feel personally attacked and I blame Brennan. Wow. So I'm gonna change. I'm just gonna awkwardly segue to a totally new question so I don't have to think about that anymore.
- [28:09]
Marty Solomon
I was only trying to attack myself with that line of questions.
- [28:14]
Ashley Island
This will be a bonus episode with you working this out between the two of you.
- [28:18]
Brent Billings
Yeah, absolutely. You say Good. So Ashley, one of my favorite parts about this book is how real and practical it is. Lots of books get there, but this book was cool because you didn't just make a passing reference or two. You would directly deal with items like how to use your voice on social media platforms and online. And I mean, this is a book about tough conversations using your voice, the collision of these four pillars and. And one of those spaces where this happens in our world. And I just don't like we don't talk about that. We don't write about it enough, we don't examine it enough. It's such a dominant part of our everyday experience. What are your thoughts about how important that I just was deeply appreciative because I was. It wasn't just a passing comment about. Yeah, be careful about what you post. Like you were intentional of why would I post this and how. And what would it look like? And I loved that part. And what are your thoughts about how important this is for us today?
- [29:17]
Ashley Island
Yeah, I feel like for any one of us who's a part of an organization, any organization, whether it's one that we work for, one that we lead, one that we're a part of communally, like a neighborhood association. Most of these organizations have mission statements and values assigned to them on purpose because they are a guiding pathway to how we then act and operate within that organization. Social media is an organization and our relationship to it has organizational implications. One of the reasons it's so important to think about why we want to use social media in a certain way, the vision for what we'd like it to accomplish, even if it's our own personal page, we've become visionless and we've gone off the rails because we haven't thought about what is my hope for how I show up in this space? What do I want people to think about? What do I want people to feel? What do I want them to see? And so I feel like we have to get practical and almost in some ways back up and rewind and go, what's, what's the point here for me, if I'm the leader of this organization, the platform that I've signed up for with my email address, what am I hoping it sets out to accomplish in this array and cacophony of words that other people are, are giving to the space? So it was really helpful for me to, to view my own platforms in these ways and to put boundaries around them, almost like a handbook for myself. So I rarely post more than three times a week and I have almost like a system and a rhythm around it now. It's almost like a rule of life for my social media because it keeps me in check and it helps me come back to my why each and every time. It helps me come back to. And some people may feel more comfortable with the language of a brand based on your vocation. I want people to feel or experience me just the way that Brent introduced me up top as someone who is lending herself to bridging gaps and being someone who leads people back to the truth of who God is and back into right and real relationship with one another. So the social media conversation, I had to give it some space because the cadence of social media is so quick. The way that we use it can be so fast. In order to dissect it and come to it with some meaningful action, we have to slow down and do exactly what you said to examine our use with it.
- [32:04]
Brent Billings
I love it. Nobody can see me, but I'm dancing over here because I think it's a great way. I think we ought to be intentional about the way that social media helps serve the kind of people that we want to be and the kind of people we're becoming and presence we want to have in the world. And I think we often seem to be enslaved to our social media. It gets flip flopped. But I digress. That's wonderful. Brent, what do you got over there?
- [32:29]
Marty Solomon
Well, Ashley, unless there's an imposter out there with the same name, this isn't your first book, right?
- [32:36]
Ashley Island
Yeah, right. Wait, what's funny is there are other Ashley Islands out there. Like, I mean like two or three of them, but they don't look anything like me. So, yes, I have written other books. I have two other books and supposedly I'm one in the works right now.
- [32:55]
Marty Solomon
Well, tell us about your other projects. I'd love to know, you know, how. How you came to be an author, maybe, and what those previous experiences have taught you that help propel, say, good into what it is.
- [33:07]
Ashley Island
Yeah, I'll. I'll go in chronological order here. So the very first book I wrote was called Miles and His Many Friends. And I wrote it on my notes app, in my iPhone, on maternity leave with my second child, with my son. And it really was. It's a children's book that talks about diversity and difference in a way that's accessible to kids, and it expands the conversation just from racial diversity to diversity of thought and ability as well. And so I wanted to really. I wrote it for my son, and I had a daughter at the time as well, my oldest. I never intended for that to really do anything, but now I give it as gifts to every couple I know. Having a child, it's kind of my. It was a passion project, and it happened outside the limelight of a formal publishing agreement. So that's Miles and his many friends. But then I had a mentor named Steve Carter who taught me a lot about what I know about preaching today. And I remember he was writing his book, and he just. He knew a lot about me. He know. He knows that I write as a way to process the world. I probably have over 20 journals at home, because that's how I process. That's how I pray. And he came to me and he said, ashley, whenever you're ready to write a book, let me know. And he knew I'd done this children's book, but I waited about a year because I was scared, to be honest. I wanted my motivation to be in the right place. I didn't want to have to rely on writing as my main source of income. I wanted to clarify my why as an author. And so finally, I got to this space, and it was really the green light for me, was motivated by the space we were occupying in the world at the time. It was 2018 when my first trade book came out, not with Nav Press at the time, I was with Waterbrook, and it's called Humankind. I wanted to explore biblical kindness and how it's distinguished from being nice to people and this concept of kindness as a fruit of the spirit. And so how does. What kind of power does that get it? You know, what. How can it be cultivated and understanding kindness differently? And so it's really written more in memoir style. So it's a lot about my Life. People get to know a lot about me through humankind. But it's meant to be in the same way that say good is more reflective and invitational in navigating hard spaces. So in that way they share a mission.
- [35:59]
Brent Billings
That's beautiful. You mentioned you're working on one now. Whatever you can tell us, what can we be looking for? Or what other projects do you have floating out? Like, what do people need to know about when it comes to the Ashley island canon and. Or any other fun projects, like what would you like to share with the world? But I'm interested in this new book and what you're working on too.
- [36:21]
Ashley Island
Okay, I'll give you four things. Rapid fire. So last October, I worked with a local nonprofit here in the Grand Rapids area called the Colossian Forum that works to help Christians see conflict as opportunity versus as a barrier to relationship.
- [36:38]
Brent Billings
Don't rap. I can't take that one. Rapid fire. I gotta look. I gotta take a deep breath on that one. Golly. Okay, that's good.
- [36:46]
Ashley Island
And so they did a project where they pulled 12 local pastors together and followed us around for about a little over a year. And we all come from different theological streams. And so they essentially were saying, do all things really hold together in Christ? And the filmmaker is not a believer or has kind of a newer relationship to the Christian faith. And so you've got this filmmaker from New York essentially asking us to real worlded out as pastors. And that project called Leap of Faith came out last October. It's really beautiful, really proud of it. With Picture House and Nicholas Ma as our director who did the Won't yout be my neighbor Mr. Rogers movie.
- [37:27]
Brent Billings
Oh yeah.
- [37:29]
Ashley Island
Really beautiful film. It's really well done. So that's something that you can watch in the leadership world in the education space right now. I was just accepted to the Van Loon and Fellows program. So how do we as educational leaders, particularly in the Christian education space, lead in times like these? And so I'll be doing some projects coming out of that work and then this new book. So, Marty, I think I set out at first to write about grief. That's been really hard. I don't think I'm ready to write about grief in a way that feels really particular to me in my writing style. Yet it's taken a different shape and form now where I'm writing about courage. The subtitle that I'm working to. I have no idea what the title of this book is yet, but the subtitle that I'm really in Love with is how to be okay when everything's not okay.
- [38:31]
Brent Billings
Yeah.
- [38:32]
Ashley Island
And so there's this resilience and you know, the fruit of long suffering comes to mind. And really when you don't know what to do and you feel like you've lost all control, this can be in the strain of grief or otherwise, how do you keep showing up faithfully to the thing God's asked you to do? So I think that's what this book is going to be about. It's. I'm kind of writing it very differently. My process is so different from the other two. But I'm hoping that that meets readers in a needed space and feels right for whenever it's released.
- [39:08]
Brent Billings
Well, it's okay. You don't know the title because somebody else will title it in, so it's okay.
- [39:12]
Ashley Island
It's hard to let go of that. Yeah. Yeah. So those are a few things. And then I'm currently working with Calvin University on a small project on hope in education. So that's the other school related piece on how we continue to instill hope in our students, but also in educators who are in many ways the unsung heroes of our schools and universities. How do we keep hope, biblical hope alive?
- [39:44]
Marty Solomon
Well, whenever that book or the project, any of that stuff, whenever that's available, we'll get those links added to the show notes for, for future listeners whenever they happen upon this episode. But beyond that, is there a particular place that you'd like people to connect with you if they want to get in touch, share their experience with reading, say, good or anything else that you talked about today? What's the best way for people to get in touch?
- [40:10]
Ashley Island
Yeah, I'm really only on one social media app these days where I engage pretty generously with listeners and readers. And that's Instagram. So at Ashley underscoreIsland, I respond to DMs. I try to engage people in interesting conversations. If that's how they'd like to engage my work and would love to see.
- [40:31]
Marty Solomon
People there, that's beautiful. This has been a wonderful, varied, wide ranging conversation that I have enjoyed very much and I hope our listeners have too. So thank you for joining us us today, Ashley. It's been a real pleasure.
- [40:45]
Ashley Island
Marty, Brent, thanks for having me.
- [40:46]
Brent Billings
Yep, I'll echo that. It's been wonderful having you and can't wait for the next time we get a chat and hang out and our.
- [40:52]
Marty Solomon
Listeners can go to baymonticeception.com or check their podcast out for the show notes. We'll have links to everything that we talked about. You can use the contact page to get in touch with us. And I will just say everything we do is made possible by our listeners. So thank you for those of you who support us in whatever way you do that. We really appreciate that. And thank you all for joining us on the Behemoth podcast this week. We'll talk to you again soon.