470: The Chosen S5E2 — “House of Cards” (Bonus Episode)

Summary

The BEMA Podcast – Episode 470 Summary

Episode: 470: The Chosen S5E2 — “House of Cards” (Bonus Episode)
Hosts: Marty Solomon & Brent Billings
Release Date: September 22, 2025

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Overview

This episode of The BEMA Podcast features Marty Solomon and Brent Billings in a deep-dive analysis of “House of Cards,” the second episode of season 5 of The Chosen. The discussion centers on the show's depictions of the biblical text, with particular emphasis on the Last Supper flashbacks, the cleansing of the Temple, and how The Chosen creatively rearranges, blends, and dramatizes various scriptural elements. The hosts reflect on the historical, theological, and literary choices made in the episode, providing both scholarly and personal reactions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Structural Observations: Storytelling Techniques

• Chiasm & Narrative Flow
  The episode begins by observing The Chosen’s choice to move backward through the Passover dinner in flashbacks, while the main story progresses forward.
  • [00:38] “They are working backwards through the dinner, and it correlates with the narrative that they're working forwards in the main body of the episode, which is, yeah, pretty fantastic.”—Marty Solomon
  • The hosts debate whether this is a purposeful chiasm (chiastic structure) and agree it's an engaging creative strategy.
• Maggie, a recurring character with the hosts, isn’t a fan of this out-of-order storytelling, at least so far. [01:33]

2. Harmonizing Gospel Accounts

• Multiple Gospel events (Luke 22, Matthew 26, Mark 14, John 15) are woven into the Passover table scenes.
  • [02:13] “I totally appreciate what you're saying about harmonizing the text. I just have viewed it as artistic...choosing to put these passages together for purposes of the episode.”—Marty
• The hosts appreciate the show’s willingness to prioritize storytelling and thematic resonance over strict harmonization or apologetic defensiveness.

3. Character Development & Nuance

• The flashback with Rayma, Naomi, and Coffni depicts more warmth and generosity than we've seen from Coffni before.
  • [05:07] “A very generous, joyful, like, willing to celebrate...not the Coffni we know.”—Brent
• The broader point: The show doesn't draw simplistic good/bad lines among characters; motivations and behaviors are complex.

4. Tensions and Authenticity in Temple Scenes

• Discussion about Gentiles (Leander and Fatih) navigating the Temple, encountering strict rules (men-only sacrifices, Gentile exclusion).
  • [08:01] “I was a little nervous that...this feels a little supersessionistic at points...Does this feel a little anti-Jewish or does this not.”—Marty
• The realities of Temple life—exchange rates, abuse in the sacrificial system, exclusivity—are honestly depicted.

Notable Moment:

• [09:44] The scene where an Ethiopian bird merchant gives Tamar and Fatih free doves, offering a glimpse of kindness amid religious rules.
  • “I did love the...generosity, the humanity, which, again, I like the complexity of. It's not just bad guys and good guys.”—Marty

5. Political and Religious Dynamics

• Zebedee and John’s failed business transaction with Malchus brings out the legalistic complexity of Temple requirements.
  • [11:56] “I continue to like how they're portraying...the relationship between imperial Rome and the priestly ruling class. Interesting dance.”—Marty
• The scene between Herod and Caiaphas (John 12) highlights the internal Jewish politics and Roman anxieties about Jesus, including the plot against Lazarus.

Notable Quote:

• [13:15] “You act like you're not one of us.”—Caiaphas to Herod, capturing the ambiguous Jewishness of Herod Antipas.

6. Depicting Loss and Grief

• Thomas confronts his grief (and guilt) over Rayma’s death in a poignant exchange with Naomi.
  • [15:21] “He kind of breaks down. He's trying to share his feelings, his guilt and...pleading for Rhema's belief in Jesus.”—Brent
• Coffni’s anger and Naomi’s gentler demeanor encapsulate the varied emotional responses to tragedy and faith.

7. The Temple Cleansing: Merging Texts and Moments

• Cinematic Beats: The show visually dramatizes the cleansing with references to Matthew 23, Luke 13, Matthew 21, Mark 11, Luke 19, and John 2.
• Jesus making a whip, vendors’ reactions, and the gathering of key figures (Caiaphas, Pilate, Atticus, Judas) create a tense climactic sequence.
  • [17:37] “Judas...Has just had his whole idea of how everything's going to play out completely shattered at this point.”—Brent
• Marty voices skepticism about some historicity, acknowledges dramatic necessity, but appreciates the episode handled the scene without caricature.
  • [18:08] “It could have gone so, like...I was so prepared for...this is going to be so stupid. And it wasn't.”—Marty

8. Scholarly Debate: One or Two Temple Cleansings?

• The hosts weigh the scholarly debate on whether there was one or two Temple cleansings, referencing NT Wright's views and the Gospel of John’s literary structure.
  • [19:52] “I think my...personal opinion is there is probably one cleansing. Most scholars think it's what gets Jesus crucified. I don't think he probably cleanses the temple...twice.”—Marty
• Possibility of John's placement being purposeful, to evoke Levitical law and literary motifs.

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Notable Quotes & Highlights

• On Jesus’ repeated teachings:
  [03:00] “I bet Jesus said a lot of these things in a lot of different contexts, so. Works for me. It really does.”—Marty
• On blending Gospel dialogue:
  [23:22] “They just shape it and add just enough context and just enough little flair...it rolls really well.”—Marty
• On the show’s creative fidelity:
  [24:44] “It feels like huge credit to the actors. Maybe a little bit on the directing side, too, that it sounds as good as it does because they are generally using the ESV.”—Brent

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:38 — Observations on narrative flow and structure
• 03:00 — Reflections on harmonizing Gospel events
• 05:07 — Coffni’s character growth and “orphan boy” reference
• 08:01 — Temple rules, Gentile exclusion, and supersessionism anxiety
• 09:44 — Scene with Ethiopian bird merchant: generosity among rules
• 11:56 — Priesthood, Temple commerce, and legal purity
• 13:15 — Herod and Caiaphas: plotting, prophecy, and Roman threats
• 15:21 — Thomas, grief, and hope for reconciliation
• 16:08 — Cleansing the Temple, merging multiple texts
• 17:37 — Judas' disillusionment at Jesus' Temple actions
• 19:52 — Scholarly discussion: One vs two temple cleansings
• 23:22 — Praise for The Chosen’s dialogue adaptation
• 24:44 — On the effectiveness of using the ESV in performed dialogue

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Additional Observations

• The show sometimes uses traditional but not strictly historical settings (e.g., Pilate in the Antonia Fortress), but the hosts see no major issue with this.
• The creative rearrangement of geography and chronology is acknowledged as a byproduct of both dramatic needs and the realities of television production.
• Overall, the hosts express admiration for the show’s ability to draw viewers into new ways of seeing familiar biblical events and its commitment to artistic and theological integrity.

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Episode Tone and Takeaways

• The conversation is thoughtful, scholarly, appreciative, often playful, and full of inside baseball for Bible history enthusiasts. Marty remains open to artistic license as long as the show respects the heart and complexity of the biblical world.
• The episode encourages listeners to see beyond black-and-white portrayals and to appreciate the humanity and historical ambiguity present in both the Gospels and their dramatizations.
• The hosts advocate for generous curiosity and personal engagement with the text, rather than rigid defense of "correct" harmonizations.

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Recommended For:
Listeners interested in the intersection of biblical scholarship, narrative theology, and popular religious media. Perfect for those following The Chosen with a critical yet appreciative eye.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. This is the Baymo podcast with Marty Solomon. I'm his co host, Brent Billings. Today we continue our analysis of season five of the Chosen with a discussion of the second episode, House of Cards.

[B]

Okay, yeah, House of Cards. I remember that title. Yep. We keep making our way into season five.

[A]

I don't have any particular comments to say about this at this point, so I guess we just hit that spoiler horn and get right into it. Marty.

[B]

We're all used to it now. We just don't have much to say. We just spoiler horn away.

[A]

So we begin again at the Passover table. We have Luke 22 happening here. Still no Judas present at this point. I think they all go backwards. I don't know.

[B]

I was going to say I was going to kind of wait maybe for the next episode to make this point. I've watched at this point as a record. I've watched a few more. But they are working backwards through the dinner, and it correlates with the narrative that they're working forwards in the main body of the episode, which is, yeah, pretty fantastic. I don't know if somebody made an observation. I've had a gazillion people ask me, like, is there a chiasm? Because they're going backwards, but the story goes forwards. Is there something in the text there?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now it makes sense. I'm like, why is everybody asking me that question? And I hadn't watched enough episodes for that to make sense. But it is very, very clever. Just as a design, it's very, very interesting. I really. I'm stunned at how well it works.

[A]

Maggie does not like.

[B]

It took us a few episodes to like, okay, this is what's happening. Yeah, this is what happened.

[A]

Yeah, maybe she'll come around as we get deeper into the season. But at this point, she is not into it. Yeah, but the disciples are arguing about dying for Jesus. There's, you know, the talk of sheep scattering, Matthew 26, Mark 14 stuff. It's like Mount of Olives stuff. But Luke 22 comes before that point. So they're struggling to harmonize the text as we all have. And then there's the John 15 portion about greater love has no one than this, but to lay his life down for his friends.

[B]

Yeah, I totally appreciate what you're saying about harmonizing the text. I've just appreciated. I don't know if it's a struggle. I just have viewed it as artistic. Like, they've pulled these passages together, and I really like how it lands. Most of the time you've Heard my quandaries with cleansing of the temple and where they put the other statement about weeping over Jerusalem. But most of the time I just really like how they've woven. What am I trying to say? Maybe they're not trying to harmonize it as much as just choosing to put these passages together for purposes of the episode. And I've really enjoyed that. One of my favorite lines in this section was I have the line where it sells, Peter, I've prayed for you. I thought it was interesting. Thomas says he'll die. Did you find that? I thought, oh, well, the people that said they were going to do that. Thomas.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

Wow. Okay, I'm here for it. I kind of. That was a refreshing little, little bit in that scene. So, yeah, that's all I got for that scene. But yeah, stuff.

[A]

And maybe the out of order thing is just a way of be like, well, we can't make everything line up perfectly anyway, so why don't we just do our own creative thing with it?

[B]

Yeah. You know, I've been reading a lot of NT Wright right now and a lot of just Jesus quest stuff and Crossing and Borg and N.T. wright and everybody's always arguing about where these sayings land and whether or not they're accurate and historically reliable. And one of the things that N.T. wright says that I completely agree with is he had to have said these things more than once. So it's just super plausible for me to consider like weaving these things together because these were probably a part of his. Maybe not these exact sayings that we're looking at, but so much of what Jesus taught. I bet he said some of this stuff 20, 50 times like I do when I go around on meet and greets. I say the same thing every time I go show up somewhere. I bet Jesus said a lot of these things in a lot of different contexts, so. Works for me. It really does.

[A]

And then we are into the credits. So coming out of here, we are flashing back to Rayma and Naomi. That's her mom, uh, she's receiving a gift for her first solo job. Kofni is outside briefing Thomas on the job. Feels like a real mentor, role model sort of situation going on there. Totally different than we've seen in their relationship at this point. And the couple has apparently ordered a like a three year and a two year sequence of wines and coffee's like, oh, I'm going to send a 15 year wine, you know, to get them started or whatever. And it just is not the Coffney that we know at this Point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A very generous, joyful, like, willing to celebrate and, like, all this stuff. Like, not. Not the Coffney we know. And like Coffney and Naomi, like, they clearly like Thomas a lot. Yep. And they refer to him as the orphan boy at the door or something like that. Yeah, I can't remember if I. Yeah, I think I wrote that down. Right.

[B]

Yeah, I vaguely remember that. But, yeah, you're right. Without probably making notes or writing anything down. I did just appreciate the complexity, again, of character development. And like, yeah, this isn't like good guys and bad guys. It's not like the good guys all believed in Jesus and followed everything, and then the bad guys were just bad guys. And now here's a generous dude that really is trying to walk what we might call the paths of righteousness. Well. And based on life circumstances and the way that he sees things and theological nuances and whatever. Whatever. Whatever it might be ends up on a different side of this by the time season five rolls around. So.

[A]

Yeah. So then we have Peter preaching. Andrew's trying to give him some cues. He's doing. Doing a piece from Matthew 18. And Andrew's, you know, he's just trying to encourage him. And meanwhile, Z's concerned about the shadowy figure Jake. Haven't actually, like, found that out yet still at this point. And Philip is like, well, only Rome can arrest somebody. So there's like, what can happen? What's possible? Everybody's kind of theorizing about all these things. Then we see this Jake guy walking next to this girl. She veers off, and turns out she's reporting something to Malchus. And Malchus is only mentioned in John 18.

[B]

Is that the spy? Is the spy Malchus? Is that who they've named?

[A]

No, no, no. The spy is Jake.

[B]

The spy is Jake. Got it. Malchus is Malchus. Okay. Yep.

[A]

Yeah, Roger. But Malchus is only mentioned in John 18, which was curious to me. I did not realize that it was not in the Synoptics that he's named. So something going on there that I'm kind of keeping an eye out for as we get deeper into the season, which I love.

[B]

It makes sense as a history nerd, because John is the one that has the priestly connections. It's going to be John that knows the name of the high priest servant. Yeah, I'm in.

[A]

So then we're back with Leander, Dion, Fatiha. They're asking about the Passover sacrifices. There's discussion about regulations and money changing all that stuff. Sin and atonement. How the practice has been abused. They're trying to interpret Jesus's words about all this stuff. Then they actually arrive at the market and they learn the actual exchange rates. And Leander and Fatih are like, what? Very offended by this. And then it's like, oh, the sacrifice is also only for men. So Leander leaves and, you know, he's just got a bad taste in his mouth about the whole thing. And then there's this comment about, like, the spices are there to cover up the stench of the blood, but it's not working. And then there's a sign that says, keep out Gentiles. So not, not the greatest time for them as they learn how this whole thing works.

[B]

Man, I just have a slew of notes over this scene. A couple things that were just historically. I just love that they had the wall. The sign is there. We know about that sign. Yeah, all that stuff was great. I couldn't, like, figure out, well, A, I also had like, I love that these are the folks from however many two seasons ago, whatever it was, now getting along. They're at the temple. I love that image. But then I couldn't figure out, like, wait, we have Gentiles at the temple trying to celebrate Passover. Like, I was trying to square that with. And I'm not saying that that never happened. And maybe there's something about Second Temple Judaism. I mean, the Chosen has me guessing everything about what I know about history.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Because actually I'll do some digging and I'll be like, okay, there's sometimes I have no idea where they're getting stuff. And then sometimes I'm like, just totally wrong about stuff. So I don't even know what to be confident in anymore. But I can't imagine a world where Gentiles are there. A, celebrating Passover on their own, B, engaging the sacrificial system. I'm not aware of any Gentile that could offer. I'm just so confused about that whole section. But yeah, I was just. I was like, back and forth. I was back and forth. But yes, only men wall for the Gentiles. I was a little nervous that. This feels a little. This feels a little supersessionistic at points. Like, I'm going to go back and forth throughout this whole season. Like, oh, this feels like we're leaning supersessionistic. And then, and then it'll turn a corner. I'll be like, okay, I'm on board. I like this. And then it'll like, turn a corner. And so I'm up and down on that on that, like, does this feel a little anti Jewish or does this not. I'm a hard person to nail down for that, but yeah, that scene had me spinning somersaults.

[A]

So Tamar and Fatih leave there, and then they go buy their birds. And the seller is talking to Tamara in her native language. He recognizes her jewelry and makes him remember his sister. And then he gives them both free doves. Tamara offers to pay and he won't accept it. And I don't really know how this plays into anything else. I don't know if it's just like a, hey, there's. There's humanity here. There's recognition of. Of people and kindness and whatever. I don't. Maybe there's more to this. But, yeah, it's a nice scene.

[B]

Yeah, my wife definitely liked it. By the time the scene was over, spoiler alert. She was like, oh, they did that on purpose to pull us in and make us like this merchant. And then, you know, Jesus is going to cleanse the temple. I was struggling again, like an Ethiopian merchant. Is he an Ethiopian Jew? Is he a Gentile? Like, he can be in that space. I suppose he could be selling sacrifices. Would the priestly class and system allow a gentile to provide a. I was just. Again, more questions that I had there. But I did love the. Yeah, the generosity, the humanity, which, again, I like the complexity of. It's not just bad guys and good guys. It's people that have good hearts. It's people that have good reasoning. Here's somebody trying to make it. He couldn't make it back in Ethiopia. He's found a business where he can make it. Like, yep, the world of Jesus would have been that same kind of everything doesn't fit into nice, clean, neat categories as far as who's good, who's bad, who's right, who's wrong. We got to see the humanity of that. So, yeah, I'm with you then.

[A]

We are with Zebedee and John, and they're meeting with Malchus to sell oil. And there's a reference to Rhema's death there. Jairus is the one who recommended them. Zebediah reads out the requirements. John doesn't pass the standard of cleanliness, and Malchus also fails that standard. So Malchus and John are out talking about the politics of the high priest and how Caiaphas is concerned with Jesus. But there. There aren't any trials during the Passover.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't have a whole lot of. I didn't have a whole lot of notes with that I continue to like how they're portraying that. I mean, not that I don't have questions that I ever write down, but I like how they're portraying that relationship between imperial Rome and the priestly ruling class. Interesting dance.

[A]

And I also, like, just like the whole cleanliness thing. It's like, okay, we're going to read the requirements. Oh, I don't pass. Yep. I don't pass either. Like, it's not a big deal. Yep. It's just. It is one way or the other.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And yeah, I liked that.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So then we're over with Herod meeting with Caiaphas. They're discussing the possibility of killing Lazarus, which comes out of John 12. Caiaphas has received this prophecy that he's talking about. Herod brings up Annas and is influenced by his wife. The film nerd in me again has to point out the breaking of the 180 line as they're moving the cameras behind their heads. They really like this move. So, you know, it's fine. It looks cool. But, you know, sometimes. Sometimes they get themselves in trouble. Yeah. Herod regrets killing John because people hate him now. And, you know, there's this conversation about, like, well, we're just waiting for Jesus to misspeak and draw the ire of Rome. And Caiaphas is like, well, I can. I can prompt Jesus. I'll make that happen.

[B]

Yeah. I really liked this scene and how it portrayed. Well, A, you have Herod, the Jewish ruler, the quote, unquote, Jewish ruler. You have Caiaphas saying, you act like you're not one of us. Which is like the perfect line for Herod, who was like, Jewish, but like, not a good one, but also definitely identified as a Jew and tried to follow, at least publicly, Jewish law. I really liked how they portrayed the prophecy that Caiaphas received.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, usually, as I've been taught, that it's like this passing, he didn't even mean to prophesy and it was just his passing, like kind of wink, nudge. But they actually portrayed it as a. Like, he's conscious of this. He's gotten a prophecy, which was just an interesting way to perceive that and to consider it historically. I like some of these. Nothing out of line and yet new ways of seeing something and going, oh, yeah, wonder what that would have been like if it were more like that than what I had assumed. And I just like how they portray Herod with some sense of Jewish identity, but also not. And what a mess that is. Obviously his relationship with Jon.

[A]

Yeah. And that is Absolutely. The power of this show is just getting us to reconsider how we've assumed these things played out. So. Yeah, I enjoy that, too. I actually really like the portrayal of Herod. I feel like. I don't know that I necessarily had, like, the clearest picture of him, but everything about him is like. Yeah, that feels. That feels right. So. Yeah. So then we're over with Thomas. He's out shopping for food, and then Coffee comes up and confronts him. Thomas kind of runs away after this short conversation sort of thing, and Naomi finds Thomas, but Thomas sees her as Rhema, and so he kind of breaks down. He's trying to share his feelings, his guilt and, like, is sort of pleading for Rhema's belief in Jesus. Like, but ultimately that conversation is kind of cut short. Something happens and Thomas just kind of abruptly leaves.

[B]

Yeah, I remember that abrupt. You wanted that. You almost wanted to see where that was going to keep going. And wisely, as a piece of writing, you're pulled away from that.

[A]

Yeah. There's no way Coffee's going to have that reconnection at this point. At least not. Not without some further work. But it's like you have hope in Naomi. It's like, oh, she. She's a little softer, she's a little more. She's not as angry and bitter as Coffney is. And. Yeah, so there's. There's hope there. But it. Then. Then it's kind of short.

[B]

Yep, absolutely.

[A]

So then Jesus enters the temple, courts to a nice anamorphic lens flare.

[B]

Yeah. I wondered if you're going to actually add a note. Is Brent going to say something about that?

[A]

It's just. It's just a beautiful flare. Got a. Yeah. Gotta give credit where credit's due. I love it, but we're working our way through Matthew 23 and Luke 13 here.

[B]

Interesting way to weave those two passages together, but I liked it. I'm here for it.

[A]

This comment about how it's supposed to be a place of worship, not like a shortcut, and that comes out of mark 11, 16. I mean, we've got all kinds of stuff mixed in here. I got some Matthew 21, some Luke 19, more Mark 11, maybe even some John 2, which is, you know, that's the big question mark.

[B]

Yep, absolutely.

[A]

And then Jesus gets out the whip. Everyone kind of gives him some distance. There's not a lot of, like, running. Running away. It seems like everyone kind of wants to see what's going to happen, but they also don't want to be too close.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So there's you know, there's a little bit of moving around. You know, we get the vendors we saw earlier, plus some others. Shmuel is calling for guards, and Yani is kind of hesitating about the whole thing, like, not sure what to do. Caiaphas and Zebediah come and see what's going on. Atticus is fighting through the crowds. So we're getting everybody coming together at this point. Pilate and Claudia are kind of keeping an eye on things. Andrew Fetches, Peter and everybody else. There's some fire in the temple. Things are getting knocked over. Animals are kind of running all over the place. The brood of vipers comment comes in. Shmuel is in total shock, of course, for that, but also the disciples are in shock for that. And Jesus looks to Caiaphas and Judas kind of runs in at this point, and he's like, what have you done? Like, yeah, Judas. Whole idea of how everything's going to play out has just been completely shattered at this point.

[B]

Yeah. It's hard for me not to jump ahead in the next few episodes with the whole Judas, how that will unfold. But I. Yeah, I'll just leave that there. But it was at this point where I saw Judas's reaction. I'm like, okay, okay. Judas is popping in here at kind of the historical place where I kind of want him to. I'm going to see how this plays out in the next episodes. Like, I was like, okay, very interesting how they had him in there. I was very skeptical when Jesus starts making the whip at the last.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Episode. I wasn't horribly turned off at the way that they did the cleansing of the temple. It could have gone so, like, I was so prepared for, like, oh, gosh, this is going to be so stupid. And it wasn't. I was like, okay, okay, okay. Like, they worked together. A lot of stuff you've been hearing me say in the last. Last seasons, like, how are they going to work in half of these, like, passages? And they pulled them together. My one complaint will be the weeping over Jerusalem and where that's placed and the impact that has. But nevertheless, that could have gone real weird and sideways. And I was like, okay, all right. That's how I felt about that. I did think it was interesting that he's confronting the high priest, that the high priest is just kind of, like, wandering around out there for moments like this. But, you know, especially as a work of the show as far as storyline and characters and stuff, I was like.

[A]

Okay, yeah, he's got to be somewhere. So why not there?

[B]

Yeah, I wouldn't imagine. He's usually strolling out the gates where all the. There's so many times where the priestly class in this season is like rubbing shoulders with. And I know that a lot of people would say, okay, but they're corrupt. They don't care about cleanliness laws. But they also do. And there's all this evidence we have that the priestly class, like, they kept the temple rites like they were very committed to the. And like they wouldn't be out rubbing shoulders with like a billion an Ethiopian market person. That can make you unclean.

[A]

Like.

[B]

But anyway, I'm not complaining. It was fine.

[A]

So I don't know if we talked about this in session three or not. I assume we must have maybe had some comment on it. But what's the general conversation about one versus two temple cleansings?

[B]

I'm trying to think if I've even heard. Somebody has suggested that, but I can't remember if it was a reliable. Was it a teacher, like a key source, like. Like a scholar that I heard suggest that was it somebody else? I definitely have put that together in my own mind as a. I wonder. I mean, people that listen to the podcast know I'm not real committed to. I have to harmonize every detail. I have to explain. Like, the apologetics that I was taught would have had to have like explained that. Like, they would have made a really big deal that these are two. So the historical timelines work. Right. I don't have any problem with there being. I think my. My personal opinion is there is probably one cleansing. There's. Historically speaking, a lot of scholars think it's the cleansing of the temple that actually secures Jesus's crucifixion. Like that's where he ticks off whatever authorities. I don't know if I would necessarily. And T. Wright doesn't. He has problems with that. I probably have problems with that. I don't think he probably cleanses the temple, at least in a big, loud, violent way. Twice. There's no way. But I've wondered if John moves it as a literary device. John loves the book of Leviticus and Genesis.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But does John move it in order to hint at, hey, I wonder if Jesus came looking for mold in the house, found some mold, said, we'll be back in two weeks, quote unquote, according to Levitical law. And then it hadn't been dealt with and Jesus judges it. Yeah, which that does feel very NT righty to me. Just what I'm reading right now. But Yeah, I. So not a whole lot we could.

[A]

Have talked about in session six with John, I guess, is probably because there's the conversation about, like, oh, he was. He was using his tassels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As, like, a cleansing tool.

[B]

Yeah. And I've built that out some. We did talk about it probably in season three, and then we probably certainly circled back to it for sure. In our season six conversation about John. And it's part of how I've been like, okay, if you wanted to play with. If you're real committed. Because I have a hard time reading the Synoptics and not seeing a pretty. I'll put it in quotes. Violent, angry, loud overturning of the temple. It seems a little fanciful to me in the Synoptics that he's just waving his tassels at people and they're quietly leaving. If I wanted to really hang on to that, if I were committed to that idea, I could see it happening in the early cleansing in the John rendering. That's just one fun way that I kind of wink with a twinkle in my eye and go, well, maybe, maybe.

[A]

Maybe because they use a feather for, like, dusting for yeast or whatever. Is that right? Yep. Is that in Leviticus or is that a Talmudical thing?

[B]

Yep, that'll be a tradition. That'll be halakhic, not specified in Torah.

[A]

All right, well, yeah, I guess that doesn't necessarily give us any clues then.

[B]

But yeah.

[A]

Yeah, fun to consider and wrestle with. A lot of text in this. You know, obviously there's just so much text associated with the last week of Jesus, so a huge portion of the dialogue is written for them, which presents its own challenges in making this show. But, yeah, pulling all these pieces together. Any other thoughts on how they've brought in different passages in the scene or in this episode generally or anything?

[B]

Not necessarily. Like you said, there's a lot of dialogue that's already written for them, and yet they manage to. You know how you watch other Jesus films and it's just so stunted because everybody's staying so true to the biblical dialogue and they actually will put a lot of biblical dialogue in there, and yet they just shape it and add just enough context and just enough little flair, and they're not afraid to add just enough that it rolls really well. But, yeah, I've generally had no. A couple comments I've made, but otherwise, I really like how they've pulled some of these passages together at these points. Not because necessarily that's where it happened historically. Like, there's been a couple Times where I'm like, okay, but that happened in the Temple Mount. That conversation happened over here. That conversation. There's been a couple of those times where I've. But how they've designed it within the larger episode and the content, I'm like, oh, actually really like how that kind of like how a gospel writer would have. And I'm not saying the chosen is inspired and gets to do that. I'm just saying, sure. Oh, they've rearranged stuff in such a way that I'm like, oh, I like that. I like how that hits. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And honestly, having talked to Dallas and heard from other members of the team, like, I. I have full faith that they are seeking the Lord's wisdom as they arrange it the way that they do.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

And honestly, it feels like huge credit to the actors. Maybe a little bit on the directing side, too, that it sounds as good as it does because they are generally using the esv.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I read the esv, I'm like, nobody talks like this. And somehow they make that language work as they perform it. So, yeah, totally. Kudos to everyone involved in that process, I guess. Yep. I'm with you. All right. Well, kind of a short episode for us, Marty, but that. That covers it.

[B]

Oh, is that the end of everything? I guess it is the end. I had, like, a couple. Just random overarching. Yeah. It was such a short episode of notes for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then at the end, I was like. I made a couple notes and I was just like, I like how they depicted. There's a part in the Gospels where it says the Sadducees and the Herodians. And when you read it, you're like, wait, those are two different groups of people? And so I kind of like, was like, oh, they had Caiaphas and Herod sharing a little meal there. Talking about that I had a note about. It appears to me that they have Pilate in the Antonia fortress, which. That's a traditional position. It's not the historical one, but it's the traditional one. So I just kind of chuckled at that and with a little twinkle in my eye, that he's probably. I have him in Kai and not Caiaphas in Herod's palace out by. What today would have been. I think it probably would have been Joppa gate. What gate would that have been back then? Today it's Jaffa gate. But whatever gate that was, he's probably staying in the same place as Pilate. But it feels like they're depicting him in the Antonia fortress.

[A]

But that.

[B]

That would be the traditional assumption.

[A]

Yeah. There have been a couple of times in future episodes as well where I've looked at stuff and like, okay, where exactly are they? And I'm looking at their model of Jerusalem and their set of Jerusalem, and it's like, well, you know, the chosen didn't build that set. They're using somebody else's set. But also, if you're going to build a set like that, you're probably going to think about how it's oriented, but then the landscape and so just trying to, like, you know, figure out, like, what. What are they doing, where they're interpreting something creatively and what are they just like, well, this is where we are geographically, phys. And how are we shooting it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, it's hard to say, but I, I feel like they're. They're taking as much care as possible.

[B]

I agree. But, yeah, kind of a shorter episode, but that'll make for nice commentary.

[A]

All right, well, folks can find details about our [e-mail] we have links to watch the chosen, I guess, if you. I don't know. What are you doing? Listen to this. If you haven't. If you haven't seen any of it. But who knows?

[B]

Spoiler alert. Indeed.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But all that will be on behalf.com in your show notes, in your podcast app, one way or the other. And thank you for joining us on the Baymont podcast. We will talk to you again soon.