502: The Four Pillars — Community

Summary

The BEMA Podcast — Episode 502: The Four Pillars — Community
Released April 23, 2026
Host: Marty Solomon
Co-host: Brent Billings

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Marty Solomon and Brent Billings explore the second of BEMA’s foundational “Four Pillars”: Community. They discuss what true biblical community looks like, why it is essential for spiritual formation, and how it differs from mere affinity or friendship. The conversation weaves through scriptural examples, personal reflections, and practical wisdom on pursuing deep, diverse relationships that reflect the image of God.

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Main Themes and Discussion Points

The Order and Purpose of the Four Pillars

[00:20–05:39]

• Marty shares that while the “Four Pillars” of BEMA (Text, Community, Discipleship, Wrestling) don’t have a mandated sequence, his personal order is intentional.
  • For him, it’s always: Text → Community → Discipleship → Wrestling.
• “For me, I go text, community, discipleship, wrestling every time. And for me, that’s important because I’ve got to start with the text. I just believe in the Bible too much…” (Marty, 00:54)
• Brent notes that the text is the foundational and individual element, and community broadens spiritual engagement.
• They use the metaphor of a four-legged stool for the pillars: you could stop at three, but four yields more stability (echoing a common Jewish storytelling device).
• Wrestling is necessary for re-examining beliefs, not as an end in itself but as a continual process.

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What Is Community?

[05:44–12:04]

• Marty introduces Impact Campus Ministries’ “Definition of Success”, highlighting “developing intimacy with God and community with each other through a living relationship with Jesus.”
  • Success is not measured by impact or ministry results, but by intimacy with God in community.
  • “We cannot control making an impact or fruitful ministry, but we have absolute control over developing intimacy with God and being devoted to one another.” (Marty, 06:59)
• Community is not about mere friendship or affinity, but about intentionally relating to those different from ourselves—ethnically, socially, politically.
• There’s an acknowledgment of modern loneliness and its challenges, but Marty distinguishes community here as a more radical, intentional fellowship, not limited to natural affinity.

“When I talk about community in this pillar… I’m talking about radical fellowship with people you don’t agree with.” (Marty, 11:31)

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Scriptural Model of Community

[12:04–16:34]

• Jesus’ community wasn’t just a momentary ministry project but an ongoing, deep relationship.
  • His disciples included Pharisees, a tax collector, Zealots, potentially Herodians—people with real, ongoing differences.
• Community can (and must) be practiced in various spaces: school, workplace, neighborhoods, not just in church settings.

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Three Core Elements of Community

1. Accountability

[16:34–30:39]

• Community thrives on respecting and valuing other voices, especially those who challenge us.
  • “For me, practicing the pillar of community is simply respecting the voices of others.” (Marty, 13:11)
• Healthy community is built on intentional relationships of trust, not blind or manipulative association.
• Marty describes leadership as being accountable to his team, practicing what the New Testament calls “left-handed power”—inviting consensus, not coercing obedience.

Memorable Quote:
“I value community, I very, very rarely… only when something absolutely has to be done… will I act without consensus. If I can’t get the buy-in with this little community that’s built around me… we’re not ready to move forward.”
(Marty, 17:06)

Scriptural Exploration:

• Philippians 2:1–11 — the call to humility, valuing others above oneself, and embodying Christ’s sacrificial approach.
  • “Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility, value others above yourselves…” (Brent reading Paul, 20:02)
• Galatians 1–2 — Paul’s example: even with direct revelation, he submits to community for accountability and correction.
  • “If the community hears this and says, Paul, you’re wrong, he’s open to the possibility, even after 14 years.” (Marty, 28:44)

2. We Are Only a Piece (No Single Person Has the Whole Image of God)

[30:39–38:23]

• The image of God is reflected in diverse humanity (Genesis 1:26–27; Genesis 2).
  • “It’s about male and female are different parts of humanity. All of the parts of humanity make up the humanity that is the image of God.” (Marty, 34:26)
• 1 Corinthians 12: The church is a body with many, diverse, complementary parts. Every member is needed.
  • “If one part suffers, every part suffers with it… you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.” (Brent/Paul, 37:51)
• Sometimes some members need “special honor” or more attention, challenging the zero-sum thinking about equality.

3. Learning Through Diverse Perspectives

[38:23–43:01]

• The Jewish tradition compares the text to a gem with 70 faces—each perspective reflects new light.
  • “How much hubris do I have… to think that whatever I see… is the whole picture with nothing lacking?” (Marty, 38:46)
• John 9: True sight comes from humility, not dogmatism—a willingness to learn from others exposes the limits of our personal perspective.
• The symbolic number “70 (or 72)” denotes fullness in community, nodding to the tradition of 70 elders and the story (Numbers 11) of two elders prophesying outside the expected circle.
  • “Community’s not going to always fit this perfect little design. You’ll often find members of the community in places where you wouldn’t expect it…” (Marty, 43:54)

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Final Reflections and Practical Wisdom

[43:54–50:14]

• Traditions (like liturgy) can support or undermine real community—especially in a consumer-driven society.
• True community is intentional, not passive: it is a gift that must be unwrapped by active participation.
• Community means mutuality: you both give and receive.
  • “Community is a practice in mutuality, which is true in all relationships. You don’t just receive from community, you also give.” (Marty, 49:22)
• Bonhoeffer’s quote (Life Together):
  • "Every human wish and dream that is injected into the Christian community is a hindrance to genuine community and must be banished... He who loves his dream of community more than the Christian community itself becomes a destroyer of the latter..." (Marty quoting Bonhoeffer, 47:45)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Community, baby. It’s the second of four.” (Marty, 00:20)
• “I’m talking about radical fellowship with people you don’t agree with.” (Marty, 11:31)
• “How do you bring more stability, more strength to the stool? ... You add that fourth leg where you’re wrestling with all of it...” (Brent, 04:39)
• “I need people who disagree with me… I need to have those voices. And that’s an important piece.” (Marty, 30:39)
• “Community is not a passive gift. Community is not a gift that acts upon us. Community is a gift that we have to go unwrap.” (Marty, 48:31)

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Essential Timestamps

• 00:20 – Pillars order and personal significance
• 05:44 – Impact’s definition of success and biblical community
• 12:04 – Jesus’ diverse community and non-church spaces for community
• 16:34 – Accountability and respecting other voices
• 19:12 – Philippians 2 expositional reading
• 25:44 – Paul’s journey (Galatians 1–2) and community accountability
• 31:28 – Genesis 1–2 “pieces” and the image of God
• 35:39 – 1 Corinthians 12 and the body metaphor
• 38:23 – Gems with 70 faces; John 9
• 42:28 – The “70 or 72” and Numbers 11
• 47:45 – Bonhoeffer on destroying idealized community
• 49:22 – Mutuality and active participation in community

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Tone and Style

• Warm, theologically rich, often humorous (“Community, baby”), always invitational.
• Authentic sharing of personal struggles and convictions.
• Emphasis on humility, self-examination, and diversity as rooted in scripture.

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Takeaway for Listeners

Community is more than an affinity group; it’s the intentional, diverse, sometimes uncomfortable, always necessary place where we grow into the image of God together. True community is mutual, accountable, and formed through intentional pursuit—even among differences and tensions. The episode invites listeners to commit, challenge personal ideals, and courageously embrace real, messy, transformative relationships.

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Transcript

[Marty Solomon]

Foreign.

[Brent Billings]

This is the Behemoth Podcast with Marty Solomon. I'm his co host, Brent Billings. Today we are looking at the second of Behemoth four pillars, the commitment to an experience of community.

[Marty Solomon]

Community, baby. It's the second of four.

[Brent Billings]

And, Marty, I didn't ask you about this before, so I'll just ask you right here on the show. But it seems like there is an order that you put the pillars in that I have not always done, because I typically, I can, for whatever reason, whenever I start to list them, I can remember three of the four, and I have to struggle to get the fourth one. So my order ends up being all over the map, just depending on which one I happen to forget that time. But it seems like you have an order to these. So what is the order about?

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah, and I do have an order to the four pillars. It's more personal than anything else. I think if you were to put these in a vacuum or whatever, they're not necessarily linear. There's not a particular order. But I do think for each of us as individuals, they may end up needing to be shuffled in a particular order. For me, I always list them in the same order. And it's helpful for me. For me, I go text, community, discipleship, wrestling every time. And for me, that's important because I've got to start with the text. I just believe in the Bible too much, and I'm okay with that, actually. Honestly, Brent, the last year or two has been a challenge for me. I've went to a grad program. I've kind of sat in the academy, mostly with people who. They don't make fun of me. They do not share my commitment to the text and the Scripture. It falls somewhere else. It's important. It might even be inspired. Usually not for most people that I'm working around. It might have some sense of authority, but that's debated. It's just definitely not. And I have wrestled with that because I kind of feel a little foolish. Like I'm a fundamentalist fanatic. And I'm good with it. I'm good with it. For me, the text is. It's central to Bema. It's where the power. It's where the spirit of God's going to move. Take up the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. And I know the word of God can refer to a lot of things other than the Bible. I get that. But I think. I think when Paul utters that, one of the primary things he has in his mind is the text and the Scripture, I just have to start with the text. For me, it's where my fundamentalism comes with me. And it's the part that I still believe in with all my heart. Then I go community. Because it's the part that I probably need to be challenged with the most. For me, I'm going to want to put community at the end. So I put community next. And then. Yeah, and then I go discipleship. Because I want to be about discipleship, but I need it to not be. I will make. I'll make discipleship a fanatical, formulaic. We got to do it this way. We got to do it this way. And then I put wrestling, because wrestling is like the. When I get all the way to the end of three pillars, I now need to turn around and abandon and re examine everything that I think I'm so sure about. I need to remember to keep wrestling. So wrestling is the thing I want to do at the end of all of it, all the time. Kind of the waters that we swim in. And that's why I put them in that particular order. But I think about people like. People like my wife who may, if they were going to order their own pillars, may start with community because that's where the power of everything starts for them. I think of other people that may start with wrestling. I don't want to start with wrestling because I feel like that leads to this wishy washy, like the negative parts of deconstruction that we have to wrestle with today. If wrestling is like a primary starting place. But I know plenty of people that need to start there because of all the baggage they bring with them with rigid structure. So for me there's an order, but it's just mine. You don't need to. Everybody who listens to Bama considers themselves a student and a member of the larger Bama community. You don't need to adopt that same order. You can feel free to push the pillars around.

[Brent Billings]

Well, if I was going to keep your order and I think I could easily keep your order, I feel the same way you do about the text. I feel like it is the foundational element. It's also the individual element. In some senses. You can engage the text as an individual. Wouldn't necessarily recommend it all the time, but I think for most people it is a regular practice to do so on an individual basis. So you have that, but you do need that wider community. So then you bring in the community, but you also need maybe some more intimate relationships. That's where discipleship comes in.

[Marty Solomon]

Sure.

[Brent Billings]

And Honestly, you could stop right there. Three legged stool will stand. But how do you bring more stability, more strength to the stool as you add that fourth leg where you're wrestling with all of it and it's like, oh, how can you ask questions? It's like, no asking questions. And digging into this stuff actually makes my faith stronger. Yes, it is a challenge. If you've never done it before, it's hard. I think people struggle with that a lot in Baymont. It's like, wow, am I even allowed to ask these questions? That's where a lot of us came from in our church backgrounds is like, we don't like this is. It's just what it is. Like God said it, I got to believe it. Right? And so it's scary at first, but once you actually dig in and do that wrestling, it just brings so much more sturdiness to our faith. At least that's my experience.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah, I like that metaphor of the stool a lot. And it was very Jewish of you. Three then four, you're like, we could stop at three. A three like a stool is functional, but three then four. Ah, even better. I love that. Very good. Thank you.

[Brent Billings]

Generous interpretation. So what is community then? What do we got?

[Marty Solomon]

I'm going to start with something we've talked about before and I'm going to take the opportunity to talk about it again. And it's impact's definition of success. We call it our special sauce. It's the stuff that for our organization, this is the thing, this is the special thing that God gave us that when we anchor to this and hinge from this point, stuff really seems to find its groove. So I'm going to read the whole thing, but I want to go back to the beginning when I'm done and kind of focus in on the very beginning of this year. But it says this and you can find this, you can link this. It's our about tab of our organization's website. You can link it in the show notes here. Brent. They can watch all kinds of things and read all kinds of stuff. But definition of success is towards the bottom. It says this success is developing intimacy with God and community with each other through a living relationship with Jesus. We believe that an individual who is developing intimacy with God in the context of Christian community will make an impact for the kingdom of God. So success is developing in intimacy with Jesus. And if you're doing that in community, you will make an impact. A team of individuals continuing on that is making an impact for the kingdom of God will have a fruitful ministry. Though we do not aim for making an impact and we do not aim for fruitful ministry, we recognize that these two things will supernaturally occur when individuals develop intimacy with God in Christian community. Ministry is the product of our love for God, an expression of a heart devoted to God. We must not allow ministry for God to crowd intimacy with God out of our lives. We. We cannot control making an impact or fruitful ministry, but we have absolute control over developing intimacy with God and being devoted to one another. There are two themes that flow all throughout that definition of success, Brent. One is intimacy with God. We might call that in Bama speak, creating a space and God fills it. Developing intimacy with God. The other thing that runs throughout that entire definition of success is community. It's right there at the beginning. Success is developing intimacy with God and community with each other. And every time we talk about making an impact, it's always connected throughout the definition of success to the idea of relationships and community with other people. These two things supernaturally occur when individuals develop intimacy with God in Christian community. So there's individuals, there's intimacy, there's community. Those things go together. We can't control the impact that we make, but we have absolute control over developing intimacy with God and. And being devoted to one another. So there's this common idea of community. When I think about my life and impact's definition of success, for a lot of impact's history and a lot of our staff, intimacy with Jesus looks like prayer. I think that's beautiful. I've talked many times throughout the podcast. It's not my native tongue. I feel a little awkward in that space. It is not that I don't pray. I pray every day. Whenever I say this, somehow everybody hears me say, I don't pray. I do pray. I pray every day. I pray a lot. It's just not the thing that makes my soul sing. It's not the thing where I'm like, oh, I love this space. It's a hard space for me to be in. But when I got into. When I found my identity that I talked about in the last episode with the text my soul sang, text is my prayer. Text is where I develop intimacy with Jesus and prayer. But text and prayer, I develop that intimacy with Jesus, but that always has to be done in community with other people. This idea of spiritual formation and developing intimacy with God or intimacy with Jesus is never a solitary endeavor. And I put never in brackets there, Brent, because in principle, it's never a solitary endeavor. But I have always wondered, you know, we do these like extreme case studies in our mind. Right. What about the prisoner of war who spends, you know, 12 years in solitary confinement? Can he. So I put never in brackets. I don't want to say that somebody can't when they are literally unable, physically unable to build community, that they can't have spiritual formation. I think God can do all that. But in principle, spiritual formation is not. It is never a solitary endeavor. And I can hear people saying, marty, I don't want it to be a solitary endeavor. I'm dying to find community. I'm dying to find relationships. This isn't by choice. I don't want it to be solitary. And I want to talk a little bit about that because when I talk about community, I'm not talking about just mere friendship and affinity. I'm not talking about people that are like me when I say that. I don't want to race past that because I know this whole thing on loneliness. The surgeon general with the last administration identified loneliness as a public health epidemic. Like, we struggle a lot with loneliness for a whole host of reasons. It's not what we're going to cover in our episode today. I actually did a YouTube video recently titled it Loneliness Sucks trying to speak to a bunch of these things. So I'm not going to speak to it a bunch here, but I just want to. I want to acknowledge that. I want to acknowledge the struggle of connecting to community. I do not want to say friendship and affinity is not important. It's deeply important for any of us that don't have friendship and affinity. Like the most basic kind of just life giving community. That is a serious struggle. I do not take it lightly. And I speak to that in that video. Find that in the show notes. But community is something that you can experience, by the way, in all kinds of other spaces. When I talk about community in this pillar, I think back in session three, when we did this, we talked about community is not. I'm not talking about friendship. I'm talking about radical fellowship with people you don't agree with is what we called community. I'm talking about intentionally choosing to be in relationships with people that are different from us on all kinds of levels. Age, demographic, ethnicity, economics, ideology, politics. Choosing to intentionally be in relationships with different people groups.

[Brent Billings]

Are you talking about like Jesus eating dinner with tax collectors and sinners?

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah, I'm even talking more about his disciples. Like he chooses. He kind of forces this. If you're going to follow me, he says to 12 guys and a handful of ladies, come follow me. And five of them are Pharisees, and one of them is a tax collector, and two of them are Zealots, and a few of them are probably Herodians, and somebody is connected to the priests, maybe the Essenes. So in his Havre, he builds a community of 12 disciples that are deeply different. And that's why they're always arguing about who's the greatest. These are not people that would choose to hang out together.

[Brent Billings]

So this isn't a momentary ministry element. This is an ongoing, deep relationship.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah, yeah. These people lived together for three years, and then after the resurrection, they. They formed communities built on the same principle, entire churches and movements. So, yeah, it's not just a moment in time. And nor is it even like a little field trip that I get away, like a little intensity retreat. It's like the way we're supposed to form ourselves in the church. And so because of that, that means that community, this pillar of community, is something that I can practice. I can experience community, like actual what I'm talking about when I talk about biblical community. We can experience this and build this in spaces that are actually meant for other things, not just church. We can find the same community in affinity groups. We can find it in groups that are. That we gravitate towards. It might be a third space, a coffee shop or a sports bar that you love to frequent because you have a neighborhood that you belong to. It could be your school. You might go to school. I'm a part of a cohort right now, a graduate program, a larger university. I'm in class with people that some of them I really enjoy, and some of them I don't. And I'm there. And I can form community intentionally. I can lean into those relationships on purpose, or I can try to avoid them either way, but I can practice community in that space. Work. We often have to go to work, and we work along. We're on a team of people on different levels, and we have to work with people that. If work didn't draw us together, I'm not sure I would text people and say, hey, do you want to hang out? And hopefully nobody listening from my team thinks I'm talking about them, but these are not people that I would necessarily form. Deep meaning, but we're. We have community because we work together every day. So community is something you can practice and you can experience and you can find in lots of different spaces. I want to talk about three pieces of this biblical thing that we. We talk about community. I've got a bunch of passages you're going to Help me read as we do this. Brent, three elements of community that I wanted to talk about today. Number one, the element of accountability. Community. For me, practicing the pillar of community is simply respecting the voices of others. Valuing those voices, respecting them, respecting them because they are alive and I am in relationship to them. And I'm not just going to discount them because I'm right and they're wrong. I'm going to value. I'm going to respect their voice because I don't know if I'm right. I think I'm right. That's the nature of us thinking. When we think things, we think them because we think we're right. It's the best we can do. But I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about stuff. So I respect the voice of others. I'm talking about intentional relationships. Like, in my workspace, I intentionally build a team around me at my place of work, and I'm the guy in charge. I'm the president, CEO. So I build a team of people around me because I need to not be the one guy at the top of the pyramid. I need to be a part of a team. Intentional relationships, these are relationships of trust. This isn't blind relationships. I'm not just talking about blindly trusting, like building community with anybody and everybody. Nope. Some people are. You're just not going to jive with some people. They're destructive. I'm not talking about blind community. I'm talking about intentional relationships that build some level, varying levels of trust for varying levels of reasons. If you're in leadership, if you have places of leadership and influence, for me, this team at work, I'm not going to move forward. If my team is not okay with me moving forward, I'm not going to move forward. Now, Brent, I'm the boss. I don't know if you know this, but I'm the boss.

[Brent Billings]

I've heard. Yeah.

[Marty Solomon]

I have the authority. I have the position. I have the title. I have the responsibility. I could literally just say, this is what we're going to do. And the whole team could get as mad as they want to. And I could just say, well, I'm the boss. I'm the guy in charge. We're going to do this. But because I value community, I very, very rarely. Only when something absolutely has to be done or some decision has to be made or time or calendar or something, but I want to. If I can't get the approval and encouragement, if I can't get the buy in, if I can't get the consensus that I need with this little community that's built around me at work, then a, then we're not ready to move forward either. My leadership is not what it ought to be because I ought to be able to. If it's good, we ought to be able to get on the same page together. Or it might mean it's not good, it's not right, it's not ready. This is for me the pillar of community. That's the pillar of community and it's not manipulation. I'm not talking about being a leader or an influencer and manipulating the people on your team. That would be gross. That would not be community, obviously. That would be a distortion, a bastardization of community. Reid, in our most recent book that we wrote together, Reid wrote a chapter about right and left handed power. And I think about it a lot when I think about community as particularly in terms of leadership. There's right handed power. That's the power that says, I'm your boss, you have to do what I say. Here's the decision. You have to do it. That's coercion. But there's left handed power, which is a power that invites. In the book, I believe he said, I could tell my kids to come to dinner. I could yell at them and tell them if they're not, they're grounded because I'm the dad. Or I could just bake the bread and let the smell of the cookies or whatever waft down the hallway and pull them out of their room. That's the difference between right handed power and left handed power. Left handed power is far less efficient, but definitely better. So the idea of accountability when it comes to community is one of my big three.

[Brent Billings]

And I think of the trust element, where you are trusting that God is speaking to the team as much as he is to you. So if you feel like, no, I'm convicted about this, this is. But everybody else is like, no, that's not what we're supposed to be doing. It's like, okay, what have I. Have I brought my own biases into this? Have I brought my own desires into this? Like, what am I missing here? And that's where the team comes in. And you have to trust that God speaks to everyone.

[Marty Solomon]

Absolutely, 100%. So I've got two passages where we can pull this apart and tease apart, basically what you just pointed out, Brent. So we're going to start in Philippians and I got a passage from Galatians. People probably know both of these are coming at this point, but go ahead and give us Philippians. Chapter 2. And I reserve the right to do the Bama thing and interrupt you all the way through.

[Brent Billings]

Wouldn't be Bama without it.

[Marty Solomon]

Exactly.

[Brent Billings]

Therefore, if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, rather in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interests of others.

[Marty Solomon]

All right, I'm going to stop you, Brent. Here's how I would reword this opening stanza of Paul's. Sometimes the whole this stanza for me, I can get lost. I'm like, what is he saying? What is he saying? I hear Paul saying, if there's anything that we can be bound together on, if there's anything that binds us together, if there is anything that we can all share, anything good, anything praiseworthy. Because we're all different as Jesus followers. One person thinks one thing, one person disagrees. This person thinks that. This person thinks that we're all different. But if there's anything that makes the short list. I'm not saying it's the complete list, but if there's anything that makes the short list of what, no matter who we are, conservative, progressive, young, old, Republican, Democrat. If there's anything that we as followers of Jesus, no matter who we are, should all be able to agree upon, it was that pick up where he says that what is the thing that we should all be able to agree

[Brent Billings]

on, do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, so his big idea, the thing that we should all, no matter who we are, is part of what it means to follow Jesus. No matter our starting point or the places that we're facing, is we should all be able to do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. And I feel like everybody in our, particularly in our American context, I know we have a lot of listeners that aren't in our context, but in our American, Western world, Western civilization context, consumerism, Hellenism, that is like one of the most radical verses that we don't take seriously, like the gospel is forsaking selfish ambition, forsaking my agenda, forsaking what I want, and forsaking selfish and vain conceit and keep going.

[Brent Billings]

Rather in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interests of the others.

[Marty Solomon]

So forsaking our own agendas and actually considering and looking after and looking for what are the needs of other people. And I know these are all cliches that we're familiar with. This passage does not describe who we're striving to be in our culture. And what we're talking about is community. This is how you build Christ centered, gospel centered community is not on your own agenda and your own affinity and your own ideology, but you forsake all that to lift up other people. Keep going, Brent.

[Brent Billings]

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature, God did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage. Rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, so now I have. I have Jesus, who even though he was God. So listen, Brent, it makes sense to me that Paul would tell us to forsake selfish ambition because our ambition is going to be selfish. Like my ambition is going to be sinful. Because of who I am, my ambition's going to never be perfect. But there is one guy whose ambition would have been pure, whose ambition would have been unselfish. Like if there's anybody in human history who could have said, I'm going to follow my ambition because my ambition is purely God's ambition, it would have been who?

[Brent Billings]

Jesus.

[Marty Solomon]

And yet Paul says Jesus didn't do that. Because it's not about the efficacy of the ambition or the purity of the ambition. It's about the character of who God is. So Jesus, because of who he is, doesn't pursue ambition. He becomes obedient to death, even the most unjust death on the cross. Keep going.

[Brent Billings]

Therefore God exalted him.

[Marty Solomon]

Stop. Therefore. So because of whatever Paul just said, whatever you're about to say, Brent, those two ideas are connected, therefore. So we just said that Jesus was willing to die, therefore, what does God do?

[Brent Billings]

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

[Marty Solomon]

Now, I can't tell you, growing up in a Christian context, fundamentalist Christianity, that was one of our favorite verses because it was a verse of triumph, like there is coming a day where every knee will bow and every tongue will confess, like it might not be today. But there's coming a day where everybody will have to admit that they were wrong. Like the impetus behind us quoting the verse was, we will be proven right and vindicated and all of our enemies will be humiliated. But Brent, that is exactly opposite of what this passage talks about. This passage talks about Jesus being humiliated, and that is why he's exalted. The entire cosmos will worship Jesus, not because he wins, but because he truly understood what the character of God looked like when he chose to lose on behalf of other people. Community, community, Community. Humility and community. Before we move on to the next one, give me one more. Give me Galatians. We're going to start in chapter one and end up in chapter two. But let's go to Galatians and see what Paul. This is where Paul is trying to talk about his own journey. He has his own gospel that came straight from Jesus, but he got it on his own. Like he got it in solitary. Like Paul went away to just hang out with Jesus and got a gospel in solitude. So what does Paul do with that? Go ahead and read.

[Brent Billings]

But when God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was. But I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, so now. So Paul. That's the part where Paul just said, when I had my Jesus moment, I didn't go enroll in a grad program. I didn't go get an education. I didn't go get a master's degree. I went and hung out with Jesus. I didn't go talk to anybody. I just went and talked with Jesus to talk, get my gospel directly from him, whatever that means. That's what Paul says. Go ahead, keep going.

[Brent Billings]

Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him 15 days. I saw none of the other apostles, only James, the Lord's brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing to you is no lie. Then I went to Syria and Cilicia. I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. They only heard the report. The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy. And they praised God because of me. Then after 14 years, I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I. I took Titus along also. I went in Response to a revelation and meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles.

[Marty Solomon]

All right, so now we have Paul, who's gotten his time with Jesus. And he says, after that time, I went to hang out. I did go find community. I did go chase down those relationships. Cephas is Peter. Cephas is the other name for Peter. So he goes and finds Peter. He hangs up with some people there in Jerusalem, builds community, doesn't have any dissonance, doesn't have any broken relationships. On the same page 14 years later, and we've talked about this before in previous seasons, but 14 years later, if I were Paul, I'd be like, listen, I already did this. I know that you guys keep wanting to bring it up, but 14 years ago, I already checked everything out. They heard my gospel, we're good. I. I don't need their. But he doesn't. He goes back down because he's accountable to community. There's an accountability. Here's Paul, the Apostle Paul, of all people. And you see this dance in this passage that you're not done with yet, Brent, you see this dance of Paul. He doesn't dysfunctionally need community. He knows exactly who he is, and he knows what his gospel is from Jesus. He has his own self identity figured out. He has his gospel from Jesus, but he simultaneously has a commitment to communal accountability. It's not a dysfunctional relationship. He doesn't have to have. Like, he doesn't think they're any more than they ought to be, but nor does he think he is without need of them altogether. And so now, after 14 years, he takes Titus with him as a case study, and he says, hey, this is what I've been teaching people. Is this right or is this wrong? Go ahead.

[Brent Billings]

I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, so he just says, like that verse assumes that if the community hears this and says, paul, you're wrong, that he's open to the possibility, even after 14 years of doing this thing and having this thing 14 years ago, he's open to, I could be wrong. Am I wrong? I could be wrong. And if I were wrong, I would have run my race in vain. So I needed to make sure I wasn't running my race in vain, and I wasn't wrong. There's accountability to community. Go ahead.

[Brent Billings]

Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. This matter arose because Some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. As for those who were held in high esteem, whatever they were makes no difference to me. God does not show favoritism.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, so there we hear that same dance of Paul saying like, as for these, like, three pillars, like these three leaders, these three great people. They're only people like. Who they are makes no difference to me. God shows no favorites. This dance of I see them for exactly who they are. I see me for who I am. And I also see the need for us to be in relationship together. So he's not making anybody more than they ought to be. Nor is he thinking he can exist independently of them either. I love that dance. Go ahead.

[Brent Billings]

They added nothing to my message. On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. James, Cephas, and John. Those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship. When they recognized the grace given to me, they agreed that we should go to the gentiles and they to the circumcised. All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.

[Marty Solomon]

I just think it's a perfect case study of what is so important to me when I think of the pillar of community. And that is the element of accountability. And what's so important about this is why I'm not talking about affinity. Because I need people who disagree with me. I need people on my team at work who are not fascinated with Bama. They've been with me when I was a nobody, when nothing was going my way. And they would look at me and be like, nope, I don't love that. And I have to have those voices. And that's an important piece. But speaking of pieces, here's number two for me, second piece of community. I am only a piece. No single person has the entire image of God. Read for me Genesis 1:2 verses there. 1:26, 27.

[Brent Billings]

Then God said, let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So God created mankind in his own image. In the image of God. He created them male and female. He created them all, right?

[Marty Solomon]

So God says, I want to make mankind humankind in our image. And we're told that he does. And in order to do this, he makes us male and female. That's Genesis 1 story. He makes us in his image, male and female. He made them. So this male and female thing is not some case study in gender as much as it's a case study in the fact that it's diversity, like humanity together, male and female together. Which is astounding claim all the way back in Genesis day, by the way, that male and female is equated in human value, equated in that there are both parts of the image of Godness. But the image of Godness is male and female together, which continues in the next story, in Genesis 2's version of the creation tale. Read that passage about Adam and Eve and the creation of Eve.

[Brent Billings]

The Lord God said, it is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him. Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky, and all the wild animals. But for Adam, no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep. And while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man. That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh. Adam and his wife were both naked and they felt no shame.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, so this passage starts with just Adam. In Genesis 2's version, there's no male and female at the beginning. It's just Adam. Adam is humankind. And then God says, well, it's not good for them to be alone. So animals aren't it? So what he does is he takes Adam, he puts him into a deep sleep, and then he takes Adam apart. Like he literally takes a piece out like we make the whole woman because she came out of man. Like some statement about subservience. It's not. It's that there was a part of Adam that was taken away. She was taken out of man. He was a whole. Now he's less than a whole. And only together with Ish and Isha. That's the name for husband and wife, or man and woman in the Hebrew, Ish and Isha. And even the language there, the etymology there, speaks of the oneness. And what is he fascinated by? This is bone of my bone and flesh. He's fascinated by the oneness. He's fascinated by the unity of the two of them together. This is why a man will leave the father and the mother and cling to his wife, and they will become how many flesh?

[Brent Billings]

One flesh.

[Marty Solomon]

And we always make this about marriage and a statement of marriage, which is. It's totally relevant to marriage. I get it. But the story is about Adam was one and then he was taken apart. Because there's something about the other pieces that make him whole. And that is a good thing. God looked at Adam and said, it's not good that there's only one part. I'm going to take this image of God, make it into many parts, because that is a better thing that is far more good than the good that Adam was alone. And so this humanity, this isn't just about marriage and male and female or those kind of things. It's about male and female are different parts of humanity. All of the parts of humanity make up the humanity that is the image of God. It's about pieces. There's one more passage that tells us about no one person is the whole piece. We're all pieces. Actually, there's a gazillion passages, but let's do the famous one from 1 Corinthians 12. Let's talk about the body of Christ. Go ahead, Brent.

[Brent Billings]

Just as a body, though one has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one spirit so as to form one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free, and we were all given the one spirit to drink. Even so, the body is not made up of one part, but of many. Now, if the foot should say, because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body, it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. And if the ear should say, because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body, it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact, God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

[Marty Solomon]

This gorgeous depiction of parts, pieces, we belong to each other. No part exists independently. If we want the whole thing, if we want the whole image of God, if we want the whole body of Christ, if we want the design, if we want that, we have to have community. Community has to be a pillar. It has to be, because I am only a piece of something bigger. Which, man can be super frustrating, because community is not easy. Were you all done with that passage, Brent, or was there still some more? We should hear the whole thing.

[Brent Billings]

We got a little more. We got a little more.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, let's go. Let's go. Let's do it.

[Brent Billings]

The eye cannot say to the hand, I don't need you. And the head cannot say to the feet, I don't need you. On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable. And the parts that we think are less honorable, we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it. So that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it. If one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. Now, you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

[Marty Solomon]

So this idea of community is not easy. And sometimes there are different parts of the body that need more attention. They need more glory. What was the word that was used?

[Brent Billings]

They need more special honor.

[Marty Solomon]

Special honor. I love that. Well done, Paul. It's not a zero sum game, and it's not an equal experience. There are different times where a body part could be injured. There's a different parts where the body part just needs to be shielded, taken care of, all that kind of stuff. And that's the experience of what it is to be a piece of something much bigger.

[Brent Billings]

Feels like the manna in the desert situation.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah.

[Brent Billings]

God has given the greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there's equal concern for each other.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah. This idea that some people gathered more and some people a little. But everybody got what they needed. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I got one. One last piece that I think of when I think of community. I had the fact that there's accountability. I had the fact that we're just a piece of a larger thing. And then I also have just the idea of learning. Like, one of the things that the Jews will often say is that every passage is like a gem with 70 faces. Like a gem that you can put up to the light, and you see different parts of the prism. You turn it ever so slightly because the gem has 70 different faces, and the light shines through it differently. And why do they choose. Why do they choose 70? We'll get to that in a moment. But this idea of multiple viewpoints, there's multiple ways to see it. And how much hubris do I have to have to think that whatever I see, whatever I know, even if I know it, even if I'm right, that the thing that I see and the thing that I'm right about is the whole picture with nothing lacking. If I'm only a part and all these other. Other people are parts, are there other perspectives that give me a fuller picture of what's going on? It always makes me think of this passage In John chapter 9, when Jesus heals the man born blind and the religious people show up and they're all freaking out because it was blindness and religiosity and rules, and. Go ahead and read us that passage out of John 9.

[Brent Billings]

Jesus heard that they had thrown him out. As in the man who had been blind was thrown out?

[Marty Solomon]

Yep.

[Brent Billings]

And when he found him, he said, do you believe in the Son of Man? Who is he, sir? The man asked, tell me so that I may believe in him. Jesus said, you have now seen Him. In fact, he is the one speaking with you. Then the man said, lord, I believe. And he worshiped him. Jesus said, for judgment. I have come into this world so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind. Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, what are we blind, too? Jesus said, if you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin. But now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

[Marty Solomon]

This whole concept of when you claim that you can see, when you claim that you see clearly, there is a blindness because of how you position yourself in community, where if you recognize your blindness, even the guy who's been healed, like, do you know who the Son of Man is? I mean, I don't know. Like, there's a humility in the. Like, I think so, but I don't know. And Jesus is like, yeah, it's me. It's the guy talking to you. Like, when you claim to see clearly, be careful of the blindness that comes with that. But when you can recognize that there's things you don't see, that's true sight. And that, for me, is about community and realizing that I'm a part of all these other people that can see things that I don't see. It's why I've got to be committed to community. But why 70? Sides of the gym, why 70? There's a principle in here that I just love. 70 is a number of community. A number of community. There's many numbers 12, 10. 70 is a number for community. We could say that's 7. Tension, complete community. That's awesome. 70 went down to Egypt. In Genesis, we were told that 70 went down to Egypt. In Exodus, I think Exodus 1:5, 70 is the amount of people that were a part of God's people when they went down to Egypt. In the Joseph story, there are 70 elders at Mount Sinai. 70 is the number of community. So why is the Bible always, like, hung up on maybe 72? Is it 70 or is it 72? Jesus and the Gospels, does He send out 70 or does he send out 72? Depending on which gospel you're reading, it changes. Depending on what manuscript you're using, it changes. Why can they not remember if it's 70 or 72? Well, the reason, as far as I understand it, is in a story in numbers, chapter 11. And I think there's a beautiful little lesson here before we close today. Go ahead and read me that passage, Brent.

[Brent Billings]

So Moses went out and told the people what the Lord had said. He brought together 70 of their elders and had them stand around the tent. Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke with him. And he took some of the power of the spirit that was on him and put it on the 70 elders. When the spirit rested on them, they prophesied, but did not do so again. However, two men whose names were Eldad and Medad had remained in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but did not go out to the tent yet. The spirit also rested on them, and they prophesied in the camp.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, so we are told about this group of 70 elders that goes. And they all get together and they prophesy. But there are these two guys that for whatever reason, and we're kind of told this without judgment. It doesn't tell us whether it was Good or bad, it just tells us they didn't go. For whatever reason, they weren't there. And the same spirit that fell on the 70 falls on these other two that are outside the camp or actually inside the camp, not at the outside meeting. And they prophesied, this is bad, because they should be with everybody else. We can't have two people in the camp prophesying, what in the world's going to go? What's going to happen? Go ahead.

[Brent Billings]

A young man ran and told Moses, eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp. Joshua, son of nun, who had been Moses aid since youth, spoke up and said, moses, my Lord, stop them. But Moses replied, are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the Lord's people were prophets and that the Lord would put his spirit on them, right?

[Marty Solomon]

So Moses is told, we've got two guys that are prop. They're not here at the meeting, Moses. And they're in the camp and they're prophesying somebody go stop them. And Moses says, no, don't be worried about me. My ego's fine. Our ego should be fine. If that's what God's doing out there, let him do it. And so, if I understand it correctly, this idea of 70 or 72 traces back to this story. Is it 70 or. Or is it 72? And whenever I see the number 72, whenever I try to choose, should I say 70 or 72? I love to say 72 because it reminds me there's always people that may not fit within the normal parameters. Community is not something that fits nice and neatly in a little box. We tend to use community as, like an exclusionary thing, like, here's the boundaries of community, and you're either in or you're out. But this story is like, just remember, remember that community. You'll often find members of the community in places where you wouldn't expect it, in places where they aren't supposed to be. Community's not going to always fit this perfect little design. 72. 72. I just always have loved that little picture of community and what it can be and maybe what it should be. So, community, the importance of the pillar of community. As I work towards a conclusion, I thought of a couple other things. I threw in the notes here. Where we are void of tradition or liturgy, this whole thing becomes even more important. Some traditions, if you're a part of a Catholic tradition, or if you're a part of what we might call high church traditions, Lutherans, Anglicans, Episcopalians, people that have tradition, liturgical Tradition that they cling to for a mass or for a Sunday, they have a communal history. But if you're a part of a tradition like I come from, see those hatred traditions, they have a tradition of belief, they have a tradition of praxis, of practice, and they lean on that. If you come from a non denominational, like we shun ritual, like we try to run away from that because we want freedom and autonomy, which is. Oh, that's beautiful. There's wonderful prose to that. But in this world of consumerism, even these high church traditions, I think can actually. This tradition you lean on, it can be beautiful, this high church tradition, but it can also be a challenge to community. It can actually usurp and undermine the very like actual interrelational, interpersonal relationships you want to build. And it did work better. Before the days of consumerism, before church was this thing, an event you went to consume and it was actually the Eucharist you were literally consuming and the community that you were a part of, because you all farmed together and you all lived together and you all bartered together and you were all part of the same literal physical village together. You had a community that church was kind of tied into. Now that church is more of a consumerism activity. This all becomes even more of a challenge. So I wanted to work towards a conclusion. And to do that I was going to channel my Reed Dent. I had a quote. This is something that Reid does all the time. He has some quote for some book. Sure, I had a Bonhoeffer quote. So I'll see your beekner and I'll raise you a Bonhoeffer Reed Dent. But here you go. Here's what Bonhoeffer said. Every human wish and dream that is injected into the Christian community is a hindrance to genuine community and must be banished if genuine community is to survive. He who loves his dream of community more than the Christian community itself becomes a destroyer of the latter. Even though his personal intentions may be ever so honest and earnest and sacrificial. Like when we are pursuing some dream, some ideal of what community can be. I know so many folks, so many young people, young adults, college students, people frustrated with their church, and they are trying to find this perfect ideal of a community. We become the very thing that destroys community. Because community by definition is the combination of all this imperfection that comes together to be pieces of a larger whole that reflect the beautiful image of God. It is a body where some pieces and parts of the body need greater honor. So our very ideals and dreams of community have to be banished or we become the very thing that destroys the. Such a good Bonhoeffer quote might be my favorite Bonhoeffer quote. Actually, I'm not a huge Bonhoeffer guy.

[Brent Billings]

Do you have a source for that? That I should link?

[Marty Solomon]

Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Yep. Community is a gift is one of my next notes, but one that we must intentionally pursue in order to find its blessing. Community is not a passive gift. Community is not a gift that acts upon us. Community is a gift that we have to go unwrap. Community is a gift we have to go intentionally pursue or we never actually find it. Community is a deep gift to us, but we have to. We have to chase it. Finally, I would say this community is a practice in mutuality, which is true in all relationships, by the way. You don't just receive from community, you also give. You're not just the recipient, you're also the giver. When we talk about community often today, we critique an awful lot about community. We critique an awful lot about churches, and for good reason. There's wonderfully accurate things to critique. But whenever we do that, to circle back to Bonhoeffer's quote, we sabotage our own pursuits. And so I hear conversations all the time about this community. It's just not worth anything because I don't get anything out of it. And the conversation is only about what we get out of it, what it does for me. But community is something I am actively a part of. There is a mutuality in community, a give and take. It's true in marriage, it's true in our workspaces, it's true in any relationship we might have, but it's also true in our communal spaces and commitments. That's pretty good. Did I do that in under an hour, Brent? I got a little preachy.

[Brent Billings]

Yeah, we're good.

[Marty Solomon]

We're good. We got it.

[Brent Billings]

So with that, you can find more details about our [e-mail] if you've made it this far and you have not developed your own community, it's not too late to start. Go to the website, check the groups page. Maybe there's already a group group nearby. But maybe. Maybe it's not the right fit, maybe it's not the right time. Maybe it's a little too far away. Whatever, doesn't matter. Use contact page. Get in touch. We will give you all the resources you need to start developing this. And the good news is, it's not like you have to find a bunch of people who are just like you, because the whole idea is finding people who are not like you. So it doesn't make it easy. Doesn't make it easy. Not saying that, but it is simple. So we just have to engage the work. And so we want to help you do that in whatever way you need to. So all that is on the website or in your podcast app. But thank you for joining us on the Behmo podcast. We will talk to you again soon.