Vault: Are Employers Penalizing Women Who Want Children?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Bert Show

Episode Title: Vault: Are Employers Penalizing Women Who Want Children?
Date: March 23, 2026

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of The Bert Show explores a provocative issue: Are women being penalized or overlooked in the hiring process because employers fear maternity leave, "family distractions," or other consequences of hiring women of childbearing age? Sparked by stories of highly productive women balancing pregnancy and work—including a performer singing at the Grammys on her due date—the hosts invite listeners and callers to share their experiences and opinions. The discussion examines both the biases and legalities around hiring women who may want children and challenges workplace stereotypes on gender and family responsibilities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Inspirational Starter: Women Balancing Work and Pregnancy

• The episode opens with talk of "Mia," a performer who sang at the Grammys while on her due date and was scheduled for another high-profile gig just days after giving birth.
• The hosts reflect on how Mia's performance upends stereotypes about pregnant women not being able to deliver or focus at work.
• (01:18):
  • C: "She performed on her due date at the Grammys and then just had the baby. Had a little boy."
  • B: "We see what Mia can do. We can give you a fair amount of grief because it is possible to be just as productive…"

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2. The Hiring Dilemma: Employer Biases & Personal Experiences

• Bert raises a direct question: Will some employers intentionally avoid hiring women in their 20s-30s if they think they might have children soon?
• The rest of the team discusses whether considering "childbearing years" as a hiring liability is more common than most admit.
• (02:39):
  • C: "Just that age. Like, maybe it's somebody who's just gotten married and planning to start a family."
  • B: "I don't want to train… [someone] and then have them get pregnant… and six months later, they're gone..."

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3. Caller Experiences: From Hiring Discrimination to Defying Stereotypes

a) The Dedicated Realtor

• Marcus calls in to share how his wife managed real estate deals from the delivery room, highlighting that commitment to career needn't stop for motherhood.
  • (04:48):
    • E: "In the midst of labor between contractions…she was a realtor. Took phone calls. In this market, you can't walk away from a sale."

b) Denied for Family Plans

• Sarah #1 shares a firsthand experience of interview bias:
  • (05:27–05:46):
    • F: "I interviewed… and they asked if I was married… if I had family yet. I told him… planning to have kids soon and I didn't get the job."
    • F: "He told me. That's why… We're not gonna hire somebody that automatically gonna need that time off."
  • The hosts express shock, questioning the legality of such interrogations.

c) Admitting the Bias

• Sarah #2, herself a hiring manager, admits she will not hire women who mention family-building plans in interviews.
  • (06:09–06:43):
    • F: "If they say they’re trying to start a family… I actually will not hire them."
    • F: "If they tell me about it, I won’t hire them."
  • She says past negative experiences inform her bias but acknowledges it's "terrible."
  • D & C push back, highlighting the unfairness of applying individual negative experiences to all women:
    • (07:58):
      • C: "What I don't think is fair is to apply that to every woman."
      • D: "There’s plenty of pregnant women that I’ve seen that work a hell of a lot harder than other men or women in that job."

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4. Strategies & Legal Issues in Interviews

• The team discusses how interviewers sometimes try to "trip up" candidates to uncover issues like family plans.

• D references college interview prep lessons—focus on skills, dodge personal questions.

• (09:45):

  • D: "In an interview… always focus on the job, always focus on your skills… always veer it back to the place of business."
  • C: "And never, ever talk about anything else."

• Melissa, an HR professional, joins the discussion:

  • (09:37–10:17):
    • F: "It's completely illegal to ask if you have kids or family… You’re supposed to base your hiring decision on skills and knowledge."
    • F: "There’s ways to beat around the bush, but you can't directly say, do you have kids? How is your family life? Do you plan to get married?"

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5. Underlying Biases and Societal Expectations

• One caller admits that, although she's a hiring manager in a "female-heavy" field, she prefers to hire single, career-focused women for reliability.
  • (11:04–11:54):
    • E: "I try to hire women who are single and who are career focused because women who have children and families tend not to be focused on their career."
    • D & C reflect on double standards: women are expected to prioritize both family and work, while men are expected to focus only on work.
    • (12:06):
      • C: "Both things are expected to be the woman's responsibility."

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6. Defying Stereotypes: Inspiring Working Moms

• Kim, a surgeon, describes performing non-emergent surgery while in labor, not realizing how far along she was.
  • (13:08–13:41):
    • E: "I was operating and I was having some back pain… I finished my case and went to the office and was seeing patients… I was 5 centimeters dilated."
    • F: "That’s impressive."
  • The hosts marvel at her strength and use it as a counter-example to the "liability" narrative.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• (02:12) B: “Is there anyone listening who…is prepared to admit that they would not hire a woman of childbearing years?”

• (04:07) D: “It just sounds like it’s a bad thing that she’s pregnant. It’s a bad thing she’s having children. Like, I hate that. The workforce still does not honor the fact that the only way that families are created is if she has this opportunity to do that, you know?”

• (06:45) F (Sarah #2): “When you’re at work, you’re at work. And I need you to do the job when you’re here. …I have been burned in the past…just, you know, really have not been focused on the business in order for me to run my business.”

• (08:03) D: "If the one person burned you or scammed you… there’s plenty of pregnant women that I’ve seen that work a hell of a lot harder than other men or women…"

• (09:37) F (Melissa, HR): "It's completely illegal to ask if you have kids or family… you’re supposed to base your hiring decision on the skills and the knowledge that the person has."

• (11:54) E (Anonymous hiring manager): “I try to hire women who are single and who are career focused because women who have children and families tend to not be focused on their career.”

• (12:06) C: "Both things are expected to be the woman's responsibility."

• (13:08) E (Kim, surgeon): "I finished my case and went to the office…turns out by lunchtime… I was 5 centimeters dilated."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:12 – Discussion of Mia’s Grammy performance and topic introduction
• 02:12 – Is there anyone who will admit to not hiring women because of maternity possibilities?
• 04:45 – Marcus: His wife works real estate deals from the labor ward
• 05:27–05:53 – Caller Sarah: Admits to being denied a job for planning a family
• 06:05–06:43 – Caller Sarah #2: Admits to not hiring women who mention wanting a family
• 09:37–10:17 – HR perspective on legality and trick interview questions
• 11:00–11:54 – Anonymous hiring manager: Prefers to hire single, career-focused women
• 13:00–13:41 – Kim the surgeon: Performs surgery while in labor

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Tone & Closing Thoughts

The Bert Show crew combines humor, authenticity, and candid empathy, ensuring a nuanced and real conversation. They call out biases while amplifying stories of strong working women, underlining how societal and workplace expectations often disadvantage women—even as so many exceed them. The episode seamlessly mixes insightful interviews and open, at times uncomfortable, admissions from both listeners and guests.

Host’s Final Message: These conversations reveal both the persistence of discriminatory thinking and the power of personal stories to challenge stereotypes. By naming the problem—and calling out both legality and fairness—the show encourages listeners to question the status quo and recognize the value of diverse, resilient working parents.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

The Burt show. I want to talk for a few minutes about and I asked for phone calls. And this will be a situation where only one phone call is all we need.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

About Mia and her recent performance at, what was it, the Grammy?

[D]

Grammys.

[C]

Yeah, she performed on her due date at the Grammys and then just had the baby. Had a little boy.

[B]

And she is scheduled, what, next Saturday,

[C]

you said she's scheduled for Sunday night to perform at the Oscars.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Because there's this song called Osiah that's on the Slumdog Millionaire soundtrack that she performs. So she's gonna be there to perform that. Isn't that amazing?

[B]

Here's the thought that somehow this came up in conversation, I think during one of our after show meetings. And we know there's these people out here. It's just a matter of getting them to admit it. Is there anyone listening who. And I think this is a combination of the Mia story and then that phone call we took a week or two ago about the woman who had to fire somebody. Is there anyone listening who intentionally will not hire a woman who is of childbearing years?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Because now we see what Mia can do. We can, you know, we can give you a fair amount of grief because it is possible to be just as productive and take care of if you're

[C]

having a healthy pregnancy and you're not on doctor ordered bed rest or whatever else could happen.

[B]

Right. And we're just looking for someone. I think it would be most shocking if it was a female, but who is prepared to admit that they would not hire a woman of childbearing years.

[C]

Just that age. Like, maybe it's somebody who's just gotten married and planning to start a family.

[B]

Yep. Or maybe you've gotten burned by that in the past, you know, where you bring somebody in to be part.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. Explain childbearing years. You're talking about her situation in her life. Are you talking about you're just not gonna hire anybody in their 20s and 30s?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think that's a pretty big window.

[D]

40s.

[B]

No. I think anybody who's in that position of their life, like, if you bring somebody in to interview, let's say they're 30 years old. They've been married two years. You know, she's 30 years old. She's been married two or three years, and they just bought their first house or so, you know, it's lined up

[C]

for the next thing.

[B]

Right. And the next step is gonna be have a kid. Like, in the back of your mind, you're like, I don't want to bring somebody in, spend a year training them, and then have them get pregnant, and six months later, they're gone for a year because, what is it, nine months? Six months? How long can you take off? Three months. Right.

[C]

It's 12 weeks is maternity leave.

[B]

Yeah. So that's three months. So you're like, I don't want to train.

[C]

But not all companies have to pay that whole thing out. You just have to keep your job.

[B]

Right. So somebody could think, I don't want to have him on board. I know. I'm pretty sure that some friends of mine who have their own business got. Would scammed be the wrong word?

[C]

Just burned.

[B]

Yeah. Because somebody applied for a job and got the job, and they were, like, two months pregnant, and they knew it, and then, like, three months later, they announced, yeah, I just want to let you know that I'm having a baby in three months. Like, and they knew that they were

[D]

scammed is a bad word. Because, I mean. I mean, it sounds like the woman. I don't know. It just. Yeah, it just sounds like it's a bad thing that she's pregnant. It's a bad thing she's having children. Like, I hate that. The workforce still does not honor the fact that the only way that families are created is if she has this opportunity to do that, you know?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Hey, Marcus is married to Mia. What's going on, buddy?

[E]

Maybe your sister? Yeah, my wife, in the midst of labor between contractions, was a realtor. Took phone calls. In this market, you can't. You can't walk away from a sale.

[C]

So she was in labor and doing business?

[E]

Yes.

[C]

Unbelievable.

[B]

Did the people she was talking with know what was going on?

[E]

Yes. I mean, kind of. Yeah. He. In fact, I think the comment was, wow, that's a first.

[B]

Of course. Of course it's a guy. Because if it's a woman who in. Who calls and she's like, well, I might have to get off the phone quick, cause I'm in labor. The woman's like, I'll call you in a week.

[C]

Yeah, take your time.

[A]

Goodbye.

[B]

See you later, guys.

[C]

Like, oh, okay. So what's the percentage on that closing?

[F]

Costa?

[E]

Sure.

[B]

Did she close the deal?

[E]

She did.

[B]

All right, good.

[F]

That's awesome.

[D]

Both of them.

[F]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, Sarah, welcome to the show.

[F]

Good morning.

[B]

What's going on?

[F]

Well, I interviewed with an auto finance company one time, and they asked if I was married. And I said, no, I'm engaged. Soon to be married. He asked if I had a family yet. And I told him that, you know, we were planning to have kids soon and I didn't get the job.

[B]

You think that's directly the director?

[F]

He told me. That's why he said, you know, we can't have some. We're not gonna hire somebody that automatically gonna need that time off.

[C]

Wow. I wonder if that's legal.

[F]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[C]

I don't think so either. You could have had some sort of lawsuit there.

[F]

Yeah, I didn't, but I should have.

[B]

Hey, this is a different Sarah. Welcome to the show.

[F]

Hello.

[B]

How are you?

[F]

Good.

[B]

What's going on?

[F]

I actually work for a retail company, and I'll always ask in my interviews for them to tell a little bit about themselves to me. And if they say that they're trying to start a family and, you know, they're trying to have children, I actually will not hire them.

[B]

And obviously you'll find another reason to exclude them from.

[C]

You don't say that. Right.

[B]

Like, what should we.

[F]

No, no, you actually, you cannot. You cannot ask them any questions about their family or anything that's going on that's actually illegal. But, no, if they tell me about it, I won't hire them.

[C]

Why is that?

[F]

Just because I know that they're going to have to be out and that they're really not going to be focused on the job at hand. And I know that's a terrible thing to say, but when you're at work, you're at work. And I need you to do the job when you're here. Well, I actually have two children, so it's. It's crazy that I. That I think that way. But I have been burned in the past, and I've had, you know, women in the past that have just been, you know, called out and been sick and just, you know, really have not been focused on the business in order for me to run my business.

[B]

What other categories?

[D]

Well, I'm just curious. I'm sorry to interrupt, Jess, but I'm curious about when you say not focus at the job. So you're talking about a woman who is trying to have a family, can't focus on the job because you said you wouldn't hire somebody who said they're planning a family, or you talking about a pregnant woman, somehow she just can't focus on the job. Because I disagree on both counts.

[F]

I'm not saying that they can't focus on the job. I'm saying a lot of women.

[D]

That's what you said, though.

[F]

I'm saying a lot of women take pregnancy and use it as an excuse to not come to work.

[B]

No kidding. You seen Tracy lately?

[D]

I mean, that's just ridiculous. But okay. I mean, you're in a hiring position.

[C]

It may have been in her specific situation, but what I don't think think is fair is to apply that to every woman.

[D]

Agreed. If the one person burned you or scammed you or all the words we've heard today, I mean, there's plenty of pregnant women that I've seen that work a hell of a lot harder than other men or women who are in that job.

[B]

Sarah, if you were interviewing for a job, let's say you lost yours, and fast forward six months from now, you're interviewing for a job. Would you edit what you say when they ask you that tell me about yourself question?

[F]

I would. I wouldn't. I don't think I would bring it up. I don't think that.

[E]

That.

[F]

I mean, I don't know, because I don't think that I would. Would say, you know, hey, I'm trying to have kids. So, you know, just letting you know that this is coming second to me right now. I don't think I would say that.

[B]

Cool. Thank you for the call.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, I do remember, and I think that's in general, whether you're talking about children or anything. I know that one of the things I did in college is, like, there was this competition for, like, interviewing one of the things they talked about is the fact that sometimes the interviewer, not only just to find out, like she's trying to find out to keep you from getting the job because you're trying to have a family, but just in general, trying to throw you off course to see, I guess, how easily you can be thrown off course. So in an interview, I think it's just smart to always focus on the job, always focus on your skills. Even if they ask you questions about your personal life, which I guess they can't, but if they veer toward that direction, just always veer it back to the place of business. And I think.

[C]

And your personality traits and your skills that you bring to the table, that

[D]

applies to the job. And never, ever talk about anything else.

[B]

And never admit to wanting to have kids and distracting yourself from the job.

[C]

Yes, those little devils.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, Melissa. Welcome to the show.

[F]

Hey, how are you? It's completely illegal to ask if you have kids or family, just as you can ask if you have transportation. You're supposed to base your hiring decision on the skills and the knowledge that the person has. I'm in hr. If I ever ask someone if they have kids, then even though that might not be the reason I did not choose them, that definitely opens up a can of worms in a lawsuit. And you can't definitely say, that's not why I chose.

[B]

But there's gotta be, I guess, tricks like, tell me about yourself. Or can you say, well, tell me a little bit about you, Melissa.

[F]

What.

[B]

What. What do you do when you're not working? Like, is that a fair question?

[F]

You can say stuff like that and say, do you have some challenges that helps you not go to work in the future? What were some reasons that you had to call out? There's ways to beat around the bush, but you can't directly say, do you have kids? How is your family life? Do you plan to get married? Do you have any vac planned? Or anything like that?

[D]

Well, yeah. And I guess even when you get to that point, going back to what we were saying is just try to always answer the question based on the job you're applying for, you know, just to keep yourself safe. Because I think a lot of times people go in there, get comfortable, or pretend like the interviewer is their friend, you know, because the interviewer comes across so sweet and you want this job so badly, so you're gonna pretend to be their friend. And obviously, we're learning that that's the worst thing you can do.

[C]

It's a tactic to find out more about you.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

Sarah, welcome to the show.

[E]

Hey, good morning.

[B]

How are you? You're on the voice disguiser.

[E]

Thank you. First of all, I'd like to say I love your show. You guys wake me up every morning. I wouldn't be able to get out of bed without you.

[B]

That's so cool. Thank you very much.

[E]

But I was calling it because I am a hiring manager, and I work in a field with a lot of women. And, you know, I don't want to be discriminatory. I know it sounds wrong to say that women can't balance family and career, but I have situations all the time where women have to call out because. Excuse me. Because of their kids or because of their husband or, you know, they use. So sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. And it gets really frustrating because you always have to find someone to fill in for them.

[B]

So you purposely will not hire a woman because of the challenges. Finger quotes that may come up.

[F]

I just.

[E]

I try to hire women who are single and who are career focused because women who have children and families tend to not be focused on their career.

[D]

What is so funny to me that

[E]

their families come first?

[D]

What is so funny to me that we have in our culture? I mean, and so the men have the pressure to focus only on work and not on family. You know what I mean? So if there's a family involved and there's a mother and father involved, a lot of times you're finding that the mother's having to overcompensate because of what you're hearing and the guy and the pressure he feels at work.

[C]

Both things are expected to be the woman's responsibility.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

And I think a lot of people are going through that today because it's President's Day. We talked about it earlier, like, you've

[F]

got to work, but your kids are out of school.

[B]

You know, we. Another topic.

[D]

Children should not be a liability.

[B]

Forgive the word I'm about to use, but another topic was born out of this. What? Brag about what your wife did during labor. Hey, Kim. Welcome to the show.

[F]

Hi.

[D]

Hey.

[B]

Hi. You're on the Voice disguiser.

[F]

Great.

[E]

I'm a surgeon, actually.

[B]

Okay. So this is what you did during labor?

[E]

Yes, this is what I did during labor.

[F]

I was operating, and I was having some back pain that I kind of blew off because I thought, well, baby's not due for another three weeks.

[E]

And I finished my case and went

[F]

to the office and was seeing patients.

[E]

And it turns out by lunchtime, when my husband finally made Me go to my gynecologist. I was 5 centimeters dilated.

[D]

And so you performed surgery while you were in labor.

[B]

What type of surgery were you performing while you were in labor?

[F]

I would rather not say.

[E]

It was not emergent surgery.

[B]

Okay. So. All right, well, thank you. Thank you so much for the call.

[F]

That's impressive.

[D]

Yeah, but that and the same with the realtor. They both did it successfully.

[B]

We have multiple calls, so we'll put this on the list, and it'll come up again.

[D]

When you talk about woman. A woman not being able to endure pain, she. She performed surgery and finished her surgery before she went and had that baby.

[B]

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[G]

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[B]

I'm good.

[G]

Truth was, he wasn't good. Jack needed help. Then the darndest thing happened. Emily called Pacific Source.

[B]

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[G]

Jack learned that Pacific Source provides members with support beyond health care. In Jack's case, we got him in touch with the local food bank.

[B]

You guys do that?

[G]

Yes, we do, Jack. Pacific Source Health Plan.

[C]

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