Vault: He Gets Punished For Not Going To Church?!

Summary

The Bert Show (Pionaire Podcasting)

Episode: Vault: He Gets Punished For Not Going To Church?!
Date: December 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Bert Show centers on a heated and surprisingly serious call-in segment inspired by an email from a listener, “Buddy,” whose marriage has turned into a series of quid-pro-quo exchanges: church attendance for intimacy, allowance for household chores. The hosts and listeners unpack the emotional, ethical, and relational implications of running a partnership like a business contract. While what starts off as a light topic devolves into debate, the group grapples with whether transactional arrangements strengthen or poison relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Listener Email: "Pray in Exchange for Play"

• [01:32] Host Bert introduces the central email, titled "Pray in exchange for play."
• Buddy shares that his wife issued an ultimatum: Come to church with her, or she will withhold sex for the week.
  • "She will completely shut me out, shut me down. Closed." — Buddy [02:43]

2. Buddy’s Response: Turning the Tables

• [03:38] Buddy describes how he created his own ultimatum: In exchange for her allowance, his wife must have dinner ready within 30 minutes of his arrival and keep the house guest-ready.
• Hosts express discomfort as harmless negotiations become lists of daily chores and seem increasingly transactional.
  • "You just turned something so beautiful into something so ugly." — Bert [04:15]

3. The Hosts Challenge the Arrangement

• [05:16–06:57] The show panel objects to the arrangement, touching on key questions:
  • Is using sex or money as leverage ever appropriate?
  • Are daily performance-based allowances and strict expectations healthy?
  • Is this a partnership of equals, or veering toward an employer-employee dynamic?
• "It's a very selfish way to me to run a relationship." — Show member [05:16]
• "You have a list of chores for her to do, like she's your employee." — Show member [06:16]

4. Empathy and Introspection

• Buddy insists each person has needs and contracts are their chosen method to ensure needs are met.
• Show members press: Are Buddy’s needs being met as much as his wife’s, and vice versa?
  • "What are you doing every day for her?" — Host [06:41]
  • Buddy claims he provides financial and emotional support in return.

5. Morality, Marital Health, and Manipulation

• [07:15] The hosts and callers challenge the morality and practical wisdom of using sex or money as leverage.
• Multiple callers weigh in, with opinions ranging from agreement ("Her job is house") to outrage and disgust ("House slavery for sex. Nah." — Kenya [08:09]).
• The show distinguishes between open, loving communication and coercive, conditional fulfillment of needs.
  • "Both are in the wrong. It's holding it over each other's head." — Show member [08:45]

6. When is Withholding Sex Acceptable—and What’s Fair Play?

• Addressing how Buddy’s wife landed on her ultimatum, the show explores:
  • How many times she asked Buddy to go to church before withholding sex.
  • Is exchanging sex for church attendance healthy, or a sign of a deeper issue?
  • "She just laid down the law." — Buddy [11:34]

7. Cheating: Symptom or Solution?

• Bert expresses, much to everyone's surprise, that when sex is persistently withheld as a power move and the relationship isn’t open to counseling, he could (though reluctantly) understand seeking fulfillment elsewhere.
  • "If she or he says, 'I'm not having sex with you until you do this...months and months...then where are you supposed to get your sexual needs met?'" — Bert [12:07]

8. Callers' Reactions and Broader Takeaways

• [13:00–14:55] Callers vocalize strong opinions:
  • This approach turns marriage into a business or employment relationship.
  • Some call for divorce in such situations.
  • Some say both parties are equally at fault for weaponizing needs.
  • "A marriage is supposed to be a beautiful partnership, not a business partnership where you negotiate for sex and dinner." — Caller Michelle [13:42]

9. Wrapping Up: Pragmatism or Sterility?

• Hosts and callers reflect on how personal, emotional, and loving needs become sterile, contractual, and accountant-like under such arrangements.

  • "Nothing says I love you more and I'm more committed to you than I truly care about all of your needs. Let's find out what those are on paper so we know." — Buddy [14:42]

• Buddy reveals he works in finance—a detail not lost on the hosts.

• Final takeaway: If contractual quid-pro-quo works for Buddy and his wife, so be it, but nearly everyone on the show is clear—it wouldn’t work for them.

  • "That works for you. That wouldn't fly in my house." — Bert [15:14]
  • "Your marriage is going to work." — Co-host sarcastically [15:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [02:43] Buddy: "She will completely shut me out, shut me down. Closed."
• [04:15] Host: "You just turned something so beautiful into something so ugly."
• [05:16] Co-host: "It's a very selfish way to me to run a relationship."
• [06:16] Co-host: "...like she's your employee."
• [08:09] Caller Kenya: "House slavery for sex. Nah."
• [08:45] Co-host: "Both are in the wrong. It's holding it over each other's head."
• [13:42] Caller Michelle: "A marriage is supposed to be a beautiful partnership, not a business partnership where you negotiate for sex and dinner."
• [14:42] Buddy: "Nothing says I love you more and I'm more committed to you than I truly care about all of your needs. Let's find out what those are on paper so we know."
• [15:14] Bert: "That works for you. That wouldn't fly in my house."

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Important Timestamps

• [01:32] Start of the email segment ("pray in exchange for play")
• [03:38] Buddy describes his own household ultimatums
• [05:16] Hosts sharply criticize the transactional dynamic
• [07:15] Debate intensifies over weaponizing sex and household work
• [08:45] Clear articulation of the harm in "holding things over each other's head"
• [12:07] Bert grapples with the ethics of cheating in a sex-withholding dynamic
• [13:00] Callers react passionately to the whole arrangement
• [14:42] Buddy defends the relationship contract logic
• [15:14] Final comment—hosts draw their own lines

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Summary

In true Bert Show fashion, this exchange starts with humor and curiosity but ends in earnest, challenging debate. The episode sharply questions whether explicit, transactional contracts in intimate relationships are healthy or corrosive—ultimately highlighting the importance of communication, mutual respect, and partnership over tit-for-tat bargaining. Callers and hosts are nearly unanimous: if you need a contract to get your partner to meet your needs, you’re not in a partnership—you're managing an employee. But for Buddy and his wife, that's the arrangement they're sticking to... for now.

Transcript

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[D]

The bird show. All right, so I get this email yesterday, and in a sea of incredibly great interview or emails that I got regarding religion and how to handle it with my son, the one email that stood out more than any was the subject line, pray in exchange for play. And I opened that one up right away, of course.

[F]

Where's the. Where's the music?

[D]

For what?

[F]

The Antichrist.

[D]

And it was from a listener named Buddy.

[F]

Buddy.

[D]

Buddy.

[F]

You already got a soundtrack.

[A]

Buddy.

[D]

Hey, Buddy.

[C]

How you guys doing?

[D]

Good. How are you this morning? You were listening yesterday.

[C]

Yep. Indeed.

[D]

Okay. Heard us talking about the whole religion thing and my wife and I. And finally me agreeing to go to church twice out of every four weeks.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay, go ahead, tell your story.

[C]

Well, as you guys know, in relationships, you oftentimes have to make little agreements and you have to acquiesce to the person's needs and desires. So we found a way to kind of work it out. She wanted me to go to church more often and said ultimately she just gave me an ultimatum. She said, if you don't go to church with me, then you don't have sex with me on Sunday. Or no, no, no, the whole week. If I don't go to church with her on Sunday, we can't have sex for the ent. She will completely shut me out, shut me down. Closed. I mean.

[A]

And so you obviously are going to church now pretty regularly.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

How long ago did she issue this ultimatum?

[C]

About two months ago.

[D]

Okay. And she has stuck to it for the two months.

[C]

She stuck to two months, but then it's kind of like. It's kind of grown into a monster because since after about three weeks of doing that, which I thought was okay, you know, because it was something that was good for me that I wanted to do also. Anyway. But, you know, I don't feel like I had to be, you know, contracted into doing it, but I'm glad I did. But I felt like there's some issues that I needed. You know, I felt that could have some attention as well, too.

[D]

So you tried turning it around on her?

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

The ultimate guy trick. God, that is the ultimate guy trick. Flip it around.

[D]

Yeah. Unfortunately, a woman doesn't care probably as much about that as you do.

[C]

Well, it depends because, you know, women have certain issues. They like to shop, they like to do certain things. And so she. I give her a weekly allowance, sort of, you know, she doesn't have a job right now, and so I give her weekly money. But in order for her now to get that weekly money, she has to have dinner at home on the table, ready within 30 minutes of when I arrive.

[A]

How often?

[C]

Every single day of the week that I work weekdays.

[D]

Oh, that's totally different. You just turned something so beautiful into something so ugly.

[C]

No, it's not ugly at all. This is just. That's something that's been a major thing for me. I go to work, I come home, I'm tired, I'm exhausted. And she'll be like, you make it. You know, and so, you know, sometimes, you know, that's in the relationship, in our situation, especially with her at home not working. That's just a little convenience, you know.

[A]

It'S gonna be a fun phone call.

[D]

Now you've turned it so ugly. No, no.

[C]

No, no. The house has to also be clean enough to entertain guests, you know, at any time during the week.

[D]

And now just laying this stuff down just to make a point.

[C]

No, absolutely not. I think this is a great way. I think it's a good idea for you and Stacy to do this.

[D]

Yeah, right.

[C]

You give lists to the other person of the things you need in a relationship. And I'm sure a psychologist would care.

[D]

She's not so eager to be hooking up with me anyway, so I'm not gonna make it any more difficult for her.

[C]

Well, you could give her a little contract. That might be more enticing, you know.

[D]

You're serious about this?

[C]

Oh, I'm dead serious. I'm dead serious. And it's worked very well for us.

[D]

See, I think this is so dangerous. Like.

[F]

Yeah, it's like it stopped being about sharing in the responsibility. It's like tit for tat. It's like, you give me this, I'll give you that. You give me this, I'll give you that. It's like, it's a very selfish way to me to run a relationship.

[A]

And it's turning into the whole, I work, she doesn't work, I give her the allowance, so she should do that.

[C]

Well, then, what about the sex issue and church issue? I mean, it's.

[A]

See, now, if so dirty, if you.

[D]

Had turned it around and there was one thing, you know, much like she did, there was just one thing a week that you. That was bothering you that she wasn't doing. And you said, look, okay, if it's going to be good for you, if I go to church, I get sex. Well, then you have to do this in order to get sex. Then maybe it's even. But here you're saying every day when I get in, you got to have a meal on the table.

[A]

The house has to be clean for entertaining at any time. I mean, instead of it being one, like if you said Friday night, if she had dinner ready, we had a nice dinner at home. That's one thing. Because it's one time a week. But now you're making into chore. You have have a list of chores for her to do.

[F]

Like, she's your employee.

[C]

She does have a list of chores. But the point is that I have. Everyone in a relationship has needs that need to be fulfilled. And if those needs aren't fulfilled, you know, the relationship starts to disintegrate. And any psychologist will tell you that those needs need to be addressed and needs to be talked about in the open. And we don't only talk about them. We write a little contract about them to make sure that those needs are fulfilled.

[D]

Oh, my God. How sterile is this?

[A]

I know. I know it's not sterile.

[C]

It's really practical.

[A]

I know the answer to this. But, like, okay, she has a list of chores, and your needs are getting met. What needs of hers are you meeting as consistently as that? Besides the sex? You know, like. Or going to church once a week? Like, she's doing all these things every day. What are you doing every day for her?

[C]

I'm giving her, you know, aside from her financial needs, I give her emotional support. And, you know, I'm there for her in terms of the relationship, but financially, you know, it's an enticement.

[D]

I'm so bummed this has turned into this. I thought this was gonna be so fun.

[C]

I'm telling you, Bert, you've gotta do this with me.

[B]

Never.

[D]

I would never use sex as ransom in my house. Never.

[C]

I don't have to use it as a weapon. Think of it this way. Look, she wanted me to. She was using it as a weapon against me. But now that I've thought about it, and I know that it's the right thing for me to do, and I enjoy going. You know, it's just a way of me fulfilling her needs as well, too, in terms of the contract.

[A]

Hold on.

[D]

I know, buddy.

[A]

You ruined it all.

[D]

Hey. Kenya thinks it's a great idea. Good morning, Kenya.

[A]

Hey.

[D]

Hi.

[E]

I think he had me up until the sex part. Because, I mean, look at it this way. If he is paying, he's basically giving her a job. I'm going to pay you to take care of the house. You ain't doing nothing else. The job is your house.

[C]

There you go.

[E]

You go ahead. You cook. Your job is house. But that means you cook and clean. You ain't got jack else to do for five days, so you do that.

[C]

Yep. But.

[E]

But now that has to be something that she really wants to do. Now, if. If. If her not doing his chores or whatever will result in not having sex or something. Y' all got some extra issues going on. I can understand her feeding you and take care of the house. That's what I would assume. That's the whole purpose of being a housewife. But when it turns in a house slate. Slavery for sex. Nah.

[F]

Yeah, well, I think that. Yeah, that's the problem here is that he is holding money for ransom and is holding sex for ransom. They're both. They're both in the wrong. Cause I don't think like, the go.

[C]

What is wrong with each of us getting our needs fulfilled?

[F]

No, it's holding it over each other's head. It's like, well, if you don't go to church, then I'm not gonna have sex with you. And then it's like, well, if you don't make the dinner every night and you don't clean the house perfectly for me, then you're not gonna get your weekly allowance. It's like, we don't do it like that.

[C]

Like spoiled, bratty kids. We do it like adults. Like, I've got this need that needs to be done, that needs to get done, and she's got a need that needs to get done.

[D]

She probably shouldn't have made the ultimatum in the first place, but at least that was a fun ultimatum. This one is just. I don't know, the daily. Have it on the.

[F]

It sounds very manipulative.

[C]

Well, I am worried where it's going to go to next because we have to update our contracts and all this stuff.

[D]

It sounds so sterile. Is that a way to have a marriage? I guess if it works for you.

[C]

If you love somebody. If you love somebody.

[A]

If you love somebody, you should respect them enough to not have to have a contract or a ransom. In order to have these needs met. You should have what's called a conversation. And then that should take care of it between. I mean, but like Bert said, if it works for you guys.

[D]

Hey, Jennifer.

[C]

Hello.

[D]

Good morning.

[E]

Speaking of church. Oh, my God, I would so divorce that guy. I mean, I don't mean that bad. I'm not judgmental, but. Well, maybe I am. That is just. I cannot believe. I mean, contracts. I deal with contracts all day at work. You don't go home and tell your wife, here's your allowance, where's my dinner? I would like to be like, here's your microwave dinner, and you can put it in the microwave at any time between now and when you go to bed.

[D]

Well, even the fact, you know, if now it's going somewhere where we didn't really think it was gonna go, but anytime. I think that you seriously use sex as a weapon, and I think it probably happens a lot in relationships. I don't know that that's the right way to go. And that's what she was doing right off the air.

[A]

Well, before we got into the whole housewife issue chore list thing, I was gonna ask what did. Did she ask you to go to church? Like, what did it take? Was the ultimatum of sex, like, the last final straw for her, like when women use sex as a weapon is because everything else just won't work with the guy. The guy will not budge or will not respect your wishes. And so, you know, the only thing you can do is take sex away from him, and that's the only way you can get his attention.

[C]

Well, she made the ultimatum first. Okay, so everyone's coming down on me on this whole issue, but she made the ultimatum first, all right? And, you know, I have needs sexually that I'd like to have fulfilled, and I like going to church. And so. But, you know, I didn't go regularly and regularly enough for her.

[A]

But my question, buddy, was how. What did it take? How many times does she have to ask you to go to church before she initiated that ultimatum?

[C]

A bunch of times, but it does. You know, she wanted me there every single Sunday to fellowship with everybody, you know, and, you know, I didn't feel like I had to go every single Sunday. And so she got upset. She got really upset. And we had these conversations about it. And so it just, you know, she just laid down the law. And after me saying a few times, look, I don't feel like I have to go every Sunday, then she laid down the law and said, okay, I feel like if you love me and you care about me, you have to go every Sunday. And so it started that way. She started the ultimatum with me.

[D]

You know how strongly I feel about infidelity and all that. But I think in a case like this that if you guys decide that you're not going to do counseling and one person in the relationship decides to hold out to sex, and the other person screws around because they're not getting sex at home because of that ultimatum, I find it almost acceptable.

[F]

Really?

[D]

Yes.

[F]

That's really far for you to go.

[D]

Really far. Really far for me to go. But if she or he says, look, I'm not having sex with you until you do this for me, and it goes months and months and months, and they decide they're not going to do counseling, then where. Where are you supposed to get your sexual needs met? I mean, she's. She's forcing the issue at that point, or he's forcing the issue at that.

[A]

Point, y' all just don't need to be together. If it gets to that point.

[F]

Yeah, I think if it gets to that point, you can't go to counseling. If you're looking outside the marriage to get your sexual needs met, you're looking outside of it for something else.

[A]

I think that's just warping the Whole sexual. Like. Because I guess it's just more of a romantic view of me. Like the sex is between the two of you and expression between the two of you and the whole idea that you have to get your sexual needs met by going somewhere else. To me, just. You're already distanced yourself from your wife so far.

[D]

At that point, it's right. At that point, it's over. Yeah, you're probably right. Hey, T.C.

[C]

Hey, how's it going, everybody?

[D]

Hey, man. Welcome back to the show, dude.

[C]

Hey, how's it going? Look, they. They are both straight up pimping each other. She's pipping him to get to church.

[E]

And he's pipping her.

[C]

And that is not good for a marriage, period. When it gets to a point to where you have to hold something hostage to get your supposedly made of your life to do something, then something's really wrong.

[F]

Absolutely.

[C]

You know, I don't think we're in hot. We're hostage of each other or anything like that. At first. It's kind of like. It's kind of funny at first, you know, like, you know, you know, we're gonna. And then it's kind of practical after a while that you literally get your needs fulfilled. And that's what it's really about, getting needs fulfilled.

[E]

Hey, Michelle, this guy's nuts. A marriage is supposed to be a beautiful partnership between two people, not a business partnership where you negotiate for sex and dinner and I mean, have you.

[C]

Ever in a relationship, have you ever gambled?

[E]

I'm married. And can I tell you that I would never ever try to withhold sex from my husband because I love him enough that I want to be with him. And I wouldn't want him to do the same to me.

[A]

Okay?

[E]

I couldn't hold out from him and he couldn't hold out from me.

[C]

I didn't want her to hold out on me. I just thought it was.

[E]

But you just turned your marriage into a business. You've taken the love out of it.

[C]

No, there's a lot.

[E]

There's. But there's. There isn't. It's negotiations. It's business.

[A]

If I have to make a contract with the person, if we. If I am signing a piece of paper that's not a marriage license or anything, you know, you know, a mortgage or anything like that, and it's just between the two of us, then I don't need to be with you at all.

[C]

Look, nothing says I love you more and I'm more committed to you than I truly care about all of your needs. And I want to fulfill all those needs. Let's find out what those are on paper so we know. And let's find a way to fulfill all of those.

[D]

It's working for you. I guess that's true.

[F]

Very accountant Ish.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. What do you do for a living?

[F]

Hey, buddy.

[D]

Buddy. What do you do for a living?

[C]

I work in the financial industry.

[D]

Hey, buddy, thanks for coming on. This kind of went a little bit more serious than I thought it was going to go. But I appreciate. I appreciate you coming on, man.

[C]

With Stacy.

[D]

Bert, I'm telling you, not a chance, bro. Yeah, no, that works for you. That wouldn't fly in my house.

[A]

Your marriage is going to work.

[C]

Thanks, guys.

[D]

See you later.

[C]

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