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Tom
Morning Zoe. Got donuts.
Jeff Bridges
Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?
Tom
Well I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me.
Jeff Bridges
So Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
Tom
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice.
Caller/Interviewer
You heard them.
Tom
T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
Jeff Bridges
Dude, my work here is done.
Tom
24 monthly bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers + tax and 35 device connection charge credit send and balance due. If you pay off earlier Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence data 182025 Visit t mobile.com.
Jeff Bridges
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Host (possibly Birch)
The Birch show. We were initially going to do this as a couple's court, and that's when wife and husband or boyfriend and girlfriend come on and they're having an argument that, you know how you just get into those stubborn modes and you guys just can't somehow some way compromise on an issue. There's just nothing you can do. So you either table it or it starts to burn at you and somebody needs a resolution. So with couples court, the couple comes on with us, and then the Burch show listener community votes on who's right, who's wrong, and the couple agrees. Okay, that's it. No more talk about it. Everybody else sees it this way. That's how we'll see it, Right?
Jen
Yeah. Go with the majority decision. And whoever's digging in their heels, that's opposite, that has to let go.
Melissa
Right.
Host (possibly Birch)
So we were gonna do that for this particular call, but Tom's wife won't come on with us. She's that upset about what's been going on. Does he need to be on the voice disguiser?
Caller/Interviewer
I don't know.
Host (possibly Birch)
Hey, Tom.
Tom
Yeah?
Host (possibly Birch)
Do you want to be on the voice disguiser?
Tom
No, I think I'm fine.
Host (possibly Birch)
Okay. All right. Tom, I think at first hearing, just the beginning of the details of what happened, you snooping on your wife, that's.
Tom
Not really the beginning. I mean, there were big problems, so something led to the snooping, you know.
Host (possibly Birch)
Okay, go for it, man.
Tom
Well, about a year ago. I mean, we've been married for a while, and so we were kind of in a. You know, to say that we were in a tough spot is kind of putting it lightly. I mean, there was talk of divorce, there was talk of counseling, all that sort of stuff. So I decided to, you know, sort of. I didn't know what the problem was, so I decided to pick up the slack around the house. And I was helping out, and one time I was cleaning and I came across her journal. Now, I didn't even know she had a journal. Right. So you see a journal there? It's my wife's journal. I don't think it's that big of a deal. So I decided to take a look in it. We've been having problems. I don't think it's that far fetched to do something like that. So I go ahead and I take a look in her journal, and I find out that some of the Small stuff that I've been doing, you know, avoiding, you know, I've been working really hard, stuff like that. She felt like she was being neglected. So I decided after that, after reading the journal, becoming informed by the journal, you know, pay more attention to her. So I made a concerted effort that every night when I got home from work, the cell phone went off. You know, no text messaging, no. No working on anything that was work related. You know, it was like home time was her time. So.
Caller/Interviewer
So even though she had been telling you stuff like this, you didn't follow it until you read it in the journal. Or had she not been saying anything at all to you?
Tom
She had been nagging a little bit, but I felt like that wasn't, that wasn't the big problem. But then I read the journal, I realized that those were the big problems, you know, I wasn't paying attention to her. So learning that from the journal, it sort of reinforced it and crystallized it for me. It's like, oh, this was the problem.
Jen
You were thinking it was big things, but really it was like the small things.
Tom
Exactly, exactly. I guess I was just being thick headed about the whole situation because I felt like I was working for my family, I was doing a good thing. I felt like I was doing a sort of service for them, you know, But I realized after reading her journal that I was actually, actually neglecting them. So it sort of put things in focus for me.
Host (possibly Birch)
All right, so the first time you read it, you see this and you make some adjustments to that.
Tom
I made some serious adjustments. You know, I decided to pay attention to her. So things got, you know, exponentially better. It's like the second I did that, it was like night and day, you know, I. The next day I come home, turn off the cell phone like I said, and things got better, you know, Got better. So I stopped reading the journal. And then about, I don't know, like two weeks ago, I came across it again. So I see it sitting there, maybe in my head. I thought I would do like a little bit of a progress report, you know, I don't know, I just. It's there, you know, it's my wife. I love her. And so I feel like we have no secrets. So I open it up and I'm not. I'm not looking for serious details, you know, I'm not reading it cover to cover. I'm just looking, skimming really, for my name. So. So everything seems to be fine. So I put it back, I guess. I didn't put it back the Way that it was initially, and she finds out because it's not in the same place. You know, I guess when she places it somewhere, you know, it's in a specifically marked place. And I didn't put it. Put it back exactly as she had it initially.
Host (possibly Birch)
So she busted you?
Tom
She busted me.
Host (possibly Birch)
You came clean with her at that time?
Tom
I did, yeah.
Host (possibly Birch)
Let me ask you this. Before we even get into her reaction. I was under the assumption that you not only read this journal one time and got that nice piece of information, that you were working too much, but after that, you started to go to the well even more, and you started reading the journal and found some other things in the relationship that weren't quite right. Am I wrong there?
Tom
Well, I went back occasionally, but I felt like everything was. Everything was. You know, there was small stuff, you know, stupid stuff that I never felt like. You know, I mean, I guess just, you know, like cleaning up, chores around the house, Stuff like that. Nothing really big. But I would go back to it, and I would see that, and I would say to myself, oh, you know, I'll fix this. It's like small little problems. It's sort of like a progress report, I guess.
Host (possibly Birch)
You know, without sugarcoating it, how many times did you take a look through that journal and find something in there that was written about you that inevitably helped you make some changes in that relationship?
Tom
Honestly, I probably did. If I have to be completely honest. I probably looked at it maybe once. Yikes. Once a week, probably.
Host (possibly Birch)
Okay, for how long?
Tom
For about a year.
Host (possibly Birch)
Once a week? For a year. Into her journal. Okay.
Jen
So, Tom, what was the change in behavior that make you made you feel like the relationship was getting better? Was it like less fighting? Was it more action in the boudoir? Like what? I mean, how did you feel like it was improving?
Tom
Well, there was definitely less fighting because I was paying more attention to her, you know, so like I said, it was night and day. It's like we were bickering all the time. It was serious. Serious before I started looking in the journal. I'm talking dead serious. You know, we're talking about divorce. We were considering going to a marriage counselor. Yeah, I mean, everything. Everything. We went on a vacation after that. I decided to do that for her. It's like I was totally there and I was totally focused. As a result of reading the journal.
Host (possibly Birch)
Does she agree with you that the relationship got better over the last year based on what you were reading in that journal?
Tom
She agrees that the relationship got better. I don't think that she want to say that it was because I was reading the journal, but. Because that. That was. That was something that was my mistake, you know, But. But she agrees that the relationship did get better. There's no, there's no question that the relationship did or didn't get better. I mean, it got better.
Host (possibly Birch)
So what's your question? Are you in the right. Are you in the wrong?
Tom
Yeah, that's. That's basically my question. It's why. I mean, is it really that if it improved my marriage, if it not even improve my marriage, if it saved my marriage, is it really that bad? And what do I do now? Because I feel like I did a good thing. You know, I. I understand it. It's a little bit of a violation of privacy, and I can appreciate that, and I. I understand that. But ultimately, at the end of the day, when everything is said and done, I have a good relationship with my wife because I read her journal.
Host (possibly Birch)
404-741-1005 Interesting point, Tom.
Melissa
The first time is. I mean. I mean, the first time totally understandable. I think the irony is, though, that what you learned the first time from the journal is that you weren't paying attention to her. And the way you explained it to us is when Jeff asked you, had she expressed this to you before, you said why she. She nagged a little bit, but. So your interpretation of her telling you something is wrong is her nagging at you, so you became dependent on her journal because it wasn't a nagging. You were in control of reading it.
Tom
Exactly.
Melissa
So the reason I think you're at fault from the second time through the rest of the year is because that first time should have alerted you to the fact, yes, you were paying more attention to her, and that means including when she talked to you. Because the reason your relationship improved is because you were acknowledging her concerns and doing something about it. And I just think that. Yeah. Continuing to go to the journal for that, I think is what is wrong because you. To really improve your relationship with your wife is that to listen to her and not take it as criticism when she's saying it to you rather than when her journal's telling you.
Tom
I agree, but when she said it to me, it put me on the defensive, so I automatically became, that's not her fault. I know, I know, I know.
Host (possibly Birch)
But he's learned from that. Yeah, but he's learned from that.
Melissa
How long did it take him to. I mean, you read the journal for.
Host (possibly Birch)
52 weeks, but it saved the relationship. But, I mean.
Melissa
But I don't think it has. If he's not willing to listen to her, it has not saved the relationship.
Host (possibly Birch)
Well, he. He can't listen to her now because she won't talk to him.
Melissa
I mean, I can understand that.
Jen
Well, Tom, I'm just curious why. To get more into that a little bit, because I'm concerned that your wife's going to a journal rather than going to you. Like, did she give up on going to you with these thoughts and feelings, or did she continue to try to talk to you about it and you wouldn't listen? Because I don't think we've really gotten into that that far.
Tom
I'm not going to disagree with you and say that there wasn't. There hasn't been a communication breakdown. You know, there definitely. And there are things that I need to work on. But when there's something as easy as going to her journal and seeing it there and it doesn't put me on the defensive and I can read, it's sort of like my wife opens up in an honest way that I feel isn't nagging, you know, and maybe. Maybe her way of communicating it to me is by nagging. You know, she's not able to say it matter of factly or frankly to me. Like, I would appreciate it if you did this, this and this. It's like, when we would get into it, she would get. She would get nasty with me. And so it's like that automatically put me on the defensive. So by reading her journal, it was like, it took it down a step, and it took it down a level, you know, it was like, oh, I see. Like, I understand she's really hurt by these things, and I love her, and so I can't deny that fact. It's like, I read this and I look at it and it's like, oh, well, I see how she's feeling now.
Caller/Interviewer
Now, what's her argument? Like, the relationship is better, and she obviously has to know that. But now she's not speaking to you. So is her argument the invasion of privacy argument, or is her argument the. Like. I don't know. What if she feels like. Like, is there's an honesty issue, like. Or that she feels betrayed? Like, what is her argument for. What is her reasoning for not speaking to you now?
Tom
Well, I mean, right off the bat, it was. It was the trust issue. You know, I read her journal. It was an invasion of privacy. But I think now it's kind of settled in, like, all of these good things that have been happening in our marriage. It sort of invalidates them because I have. I don't. I don't know what you want to call it, but like a cheat sheet. Almost like when you. When you have something like that. She feels like, oh, was it disingenuous that you were reading the journal and then making adjustments in your behavior because you were reading the journal? And it's not genuine because it wasn't coming from our communication. It was coming from this indirect source.
Host (possibly Birch)
Hey, Ann, you're on with Tom. Go ahead.
Ann/Elizabeth
Hey, Tom. I wanted to say congratulations on saving your relationship. And I think you should be very proud of what you've done. You know, keeping a journal and spouses using either one journal or two different journals to help improve their communications is a strategy that a lot of therapists would recommend. Now, certainly you came into hers kind of by accident, but I believe that the relationship between a husband and wife should be completely open. I would keep a journal if I thought that my husband would read it. And I will tell you that women, and I include myself in this. We're not always good at expressing what frustrates us or what hurts our feelings. But if you can read it and not take a defensive attitude and use it as a tool to improve your relationship, I think it's spot on. And I really think you are an incredible man and an incredible husband to do what you've done.
Host (possibly Birch)
Hey, Tom, before you even react to that, Melissa literally scoffed at Ann when she first got on and said that you're a good man.
Melissa
Well, I mean, I'm not. I'm not gonna, you know, overly criticize Tom. I just think that, you know, But I think she's given him too many accolades. 1. You know, therapists probably use that as a tactic in improving relations when people are aware that other people are reading their journals. And I think that I really am concerned that the relationship is not perfect because they're not communicating with each other verbally. Now, if she wants to continue writing that journal knowing that Tom's going to read it, that's one thing. But she's obviously angry enough not to come on the radio. So I. I think that we're. You know, it's not. It's not fixed yet. And I don't want too many people, you know, giving Tom the idea that it is.
Jen
That's all.
Host (possibly Birch)
Well, go ahead, Jen. I don't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.
Jen
I was just gonna say that I do think that writing it down is a great strategy, because I feel like even I'm just trying to reflect on my own marriage. And sometimes I will come off, like, more emotional when I have things to tell my husband that would put him on the defense rather than matter of factly. Like, because in my mind, that frustration has played over and over and over and over again. By the time I voice it, it comes off as really crabby and angry and probably is, like, nagging, because in my mind, I've already had that argument 400 times before I ever tell him about it. So I feel like the whole strategy of the journal writing thing could be a great way to learn about each other because you're writing it more matter of factly to your diary rather than to you. You idiot. I can't believe you haven't been reading my mind the last 400 times I've wanted you to pick up after your damn self. You know, like, it just. It comes out in an angry way because you're so sick of being frustrated with the same thing. And I think. I think it's a great way. Now I would feel. I would feel betrayed because he kept that secret for so long. Like, the year long thing, I think, is what's bothering me, Tom, more than, like, what you did was just how long it went on without you saying anything about it.
Tom
Yeah.
Ann/Elizabeth
Yeah.
Jen
Is that. Is that. I mean, is that one of her issues with it, too?
Tom
Yeah. I mean. Yeah. And I understand that she has a right to be angry about it. My point is that it fixed the relationship, you know, and it's also gripping.
Host (possibly Birch)
It's a soap opera that you're starring in. How can you turn that down every day?
Tom
And you know what? This, in addition, it's like everybody can criticize, but I think most people, if they came across their spouse's journal, they would read it.
Jen
Absolutely, I would read it.
Host (possibly Birch)
Would you really?
Jen
I. No doubt in my mind. If Ryan had. My husband, Ryan had a diary and I came across it, I would absolutely read it, but then I'd tell him about it. Really? I don't think I'd go on a year long without. Without confessing going, listen, I came across this. I read it. I'm sorry I did. But here's the deal. I totally would read it.
Caller/Interviewer
If there was. If your relationship is in trouble and you read stuff about yourself in there that you could adjust the relationship, would you tell him right away or would you say, let me make these changes.
Tom
And just see what happens?
Jen
I can't keep stuff like that from him. I have to tell him right away.
Host (possibly Birch)
Here's the thing. Like, they still have the communication Problem. But here is my real of it. Like, if you are in the marriage, all right, you are in love with this woman and you are living it dissolve in front of you, then to me, almost all bets are off to try to save it the way you can. And this is the way that he chose to save it, even if it was for. Even if it was for a year.
Melissa
I disagree with the year thing.
Caller/Interviewer
Is it possible, like you say, that you know the woman. Some women will say, you know what, I'm not going to bother him with this because he's going through a lot of. Is it possible that she was more honest with her journal than she was with him, which would give her some of the blame for the relationship not being personal?
Host (possibly Birch)
Tom, were there things in that journal that you read that you feel like she never communicated to you before?
Tom
A little bit. It's like she would say stuff to me and then it was more clear in the journal. You know, it's like, so there were no get angry at me. There would be, you know, bits and pieces would come out, but then the whole picture was in the journal.
Caller/Interviewer
You know, like, would there ever be a situation where, like, she. Where you would read in the journal that. I don't even know what, like, you guys don't do date nights anymore and she had never once said that to you?
Tom
Yeah, there. There were some things like that. There are definitely some things.
Melissa
Well, she definitely takes responsibility for not, you know, communicating, but I don't. I think Tom wants to be right. I think the reason Tom called us because he wants to be right. And I think that there's no clear cut right and wrong in this.
Host (possibly Birch)
Let me take a couple more calls and we'll move on. Hey, Elizabeth. Go ahead.
Ann/Elizabeth
Hey. I completely disagree with him reading her journal and I'll tell you why. You know, marriages are based on trust, one of the fundamental cores of why you get married. And all these superficial problems that he claims you have fixed in his marriage, if you're not communicating, then there's a trust issue. Somebody doesn't feel safe. And he has just reinforced the underlying. One of the underlying issues of his marriage. And if I were her, I would be absolutely enraged.
Host (possibly Birch)
Yeah, Tom, if you guys continue, like the communication problem, though, like, if you learn, let's just say now, for whatever reason, maybe they go get the help, or now their communication problems that they had before are fixed. Do you then agree with this was a good game plan, or do you still say this was a bad decision on his part to read it for.
Melissa
That While there were problems in their marriage, nobody's right and wrong. They both did something. But like you said, in desperate times, she was frustrated by him, couldn't talk to him because obviously he got defensive so they couldn't communicate well. That's both their faults. What he did. Like I said the first time, I can't say that I wouldn't do that the first time. I wouldn't have done that for a year. I just think that if Tom. I mean, because like I said, Tom wants to be right now. There are problems in their marriage. They both take responsibility and they both move forward with it.
Host (possibly Birch)
All right, Tom. Thanks, man. I think that desperate times call for desperate measures. And everything that you think is right when you see your marriage dissolving is off the table. So you can save it. And if this is what you had to do, hopefully she can get over it.
Tom
Yeah, let's hope.
Host (possibly Birch)
All right, man. Appreciate you calling. Thanks for sharing with us, dude. Talk to you later. Bye bye.
Tom
Bye. The Bird Show. Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people data workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters Most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people@servicenow.com. morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
Jeff Bridges
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
Tom
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So, Dana.
Jeff Bridges
Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera set system.
Tom
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
Melissa
Nice.
Jeff Bridges
Jeffrey, you heard them.
Tom
T mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
Jeff Bridges
Dude, my work here is done.
Tom
24 monthly bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credits and balances due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oakload Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 visit T mobile.com hey.
Jeff Bridges
I'm Paige Desorbo and I'm always thinking about underwear.
Host (possibly Birch)
I'm Hannah Berner and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage.
Jeff Bridges
I like to call them my granny panties. Actually, I never think about underwear. That's the magic of Tommy John.
Jen
Same.
Jeff Bridges
They're so light and so comfy. And if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it. And the bras? Soft, supportive and actually breathable. Yes. Lord knows the girls need to breathe.
Host (possibly Birch)
Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery, soft and stretchy enough.
Jeff Bridges
For my dramatic tossing and turning at night.
Host (possibly Birch)
That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.
Jeff Bridges
Plus they're so cute because they fit perfectly.
Host (possibly Birch)
Put yourself on to Tommy John.
Jeff Bridges
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Date: November 4, 2025
Podcast Host: The Bert Show Cast (Bert, Kristin, Abby, Cassie, Tommy, Jen, Melissa)
Episode Context:
A listener, Tom, calls in to discuss a marital dilemma: he secretly read his wife's journal for a year to “save” their marriage. The episode explores trust, communication breakdown, and whether the ends can justify the means in relationships.
This episode centers on a real-life moral and marital dilemma: Tom, a listener, read his wife’s private journal without her knowledge or permission for an entire year. He says the insights he gained allowed him to improve their struggling marriage, but when his wife discovered the truth, she felt deeply betrayed. The hosts and listeners debate whether Tom is in the right for doing “whatever it takes” to save a marriage, or whether he fundamentally undermined trust—and whether positive outcomes ever excuse violations of privacy.
Tom describes finding his wife’s journal while cleaning, feeling justified in reading it because the marriage was in deep trouble.
He says the journal revealed she felt neglected, despite his belief that he was simply working hard for the family.
“I realized after reading her journal that I was actually, actually neglecting them. So it sort of put things in focus for me.” (05:12, Tom)
Tom made immediate behavioral changes: became attentive, turned off his phone after work, and focused on quality time.
He claims the improvements were dramatic: less fighting, considering divorce/counseling shifted into reconnecting and even going on vacation.
Melissa: First time understandable, but ongoing snooping is a problem. Emphasizes that Tom avoided difficult conversations, relying on the journal because it didn’t feel like “nagging.” The true improvement should come via actual communication, not secret reading.
“Continuing to go to the journal for that, I think is what is wrong because…to really improve your relationship with your wife is to listen to her and not take it as criticism when she’s saying it to you…” (10:23, Melissa)
Tom clarifies: When his wife tried to communicate, “it put me on the defensive, so I automatically became— that’s not her fault.” (10:55)
Jen: Wonders whether journaling is a symptom of his wife “giving up” on communicating directly. Suggests journaling could be a helpful therapeutic tool—if it’s consensual.
Tom:
“If it improved my marriage, if it saved my marriage, is it really that bad?” (09:14)
Melissa:
“The reason your relationship improved is because you were acknowledging her concerns and doing something about it…to really improve your relationship with your wife is to listen to her, not take it as criticism when she’s saying it to you.” (10:23)
Jen:
“If Ryan had a diary and I came across it, I would absolutely read it, but then I’d tell him about it.” (17:13)
Listener Ann/Elizabeth:
“I believe the relationship between a husband and wife should be completely open… but if you can read it and not take a defensive attitude and use it as a tool to improve your relationship, I think it’s spot on.” (14:24)
Listener Elizabeth:
“Marriages are based on trust…if I were her, I would be absolutely enraged.” (19:19)
Host:
“Desperate times call for desperate measures…if this is what you had to do, hopefully she can get over it.” (20:34)
| Timestamp | Segment | Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:15 | Introduction to Tom’s Dilemma | Why the journal issue came up; plan for “Couple’s Court.” | | 03:29 | Tom Describes the Marital Breakdown | Tom provides backstory and his discovery of the journal. | | 05:35 | How Reading the Journal Changed Things | Tom talks about making improvements and the night-and-day effect. | | 07:44 | Frequency of Snooping | Reveals weekly journal reading for a year. | | 09:14 | Tom’s Core Question | “If it improved my marriage… is it really that bad?” | | 10:23 | Melissa Critiques Tom’s Avoidance | Argues real improvement only comes from direct communication. | | 14:24 | Listener Praises Tom’s Approach | Argues journal-writing can be a therapeutic tool if intentions are right. | | 17:13 | Jen’s Honesty About Temptation | Admits she’d read a diary but wouldn’t keep it secret. | | 19:19 | Listener Condemns the Act | Marriage trust cited as the most important, and this was a clear violation. | | 20:34 | Closing Thoughts | “Desperate times call for desperate measures,” but communication issues persist. |
This episode is a compelling listen for anyone interested in the gray areas of relationships, privacy, and whether “the ends justify the means”—with plenty of raw, real talk and a variety of passionate perspectives from both the cast and listeners.