Vault: Is It Ever OK To Cheat? We Debate Whether A Spouse Can Actually Push You Into It

Summary

---

The Bert Show: "Is It Ever OK To Cheat? We Debate Whether A Spouse Can Actually Push You Into It" (April 13, 2026)

---

Episode Overview

This episode of The Bert Show tackles a controversial and emotionally charged question: "Is it ever OK to cheat?" Prompted by a recent CNN article and several emails from male listeners, the team debates whether spousal mistreatment can ever justify infidelity, discusses societal double standards, and explores the complex dynamics behind cheating within marriage. The Jon and Kate Gosselin relationship from the reality show "Jon & Kate Plus 8" is used as a touchstone to frame the topic, with multiple callers sharing personal viewpoints and stories.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Spark: Media Coverage and Gender Double Standards

• [00:27-01:56] Host (Burch) explains how the conversation was sparked by a CNN article asking if cheating can ever be "deserved," especially when a spouse is publicly humiliated or mistreated:
  • The stereotype: “If a woman cheats on her man then she justifies it by saying that, well, I’ve put up with his crap for so long, she’s pushed to that point. … Whereas with dudes and infidelity, it’s like, dudes are dogs.” (Burch 01:09)
  • Male listeners express frustration that women supposedly get societal sympathy for cheating due to emotional neglect, while men’s actions are often chalked up to bad character.

2. The Jon & Kate Plus 8 Case Study

• [01:54-03:28] Burch reads from the article, focusing on Kate Gosselin’s alleged public emasculation and ridicule of her husband Jon:
  • "A man under an enormous amount of pressure is regularly and publicly emasculated and treated like dirt… Is it possible, maybe, just maybe, that the woman deserves to be cheated on?" (Host 01:56)
  • The hosts and callers recall specific show moments of Kate chastising Jon, using this example to question whether marital mistreatment could justify infidelity.

3. Are Broken Vows Only About Cheating?

• [03:28-04:48] Host & Callers engage the idea of “equal importance” for all marital vows—faithfulness, respect, and support:
  • “If people vow when they marry to stay faithful, to respect one another, shouldn’t the vows be of equal importance? Why isn’t Kate’s face on the cover of tabloids for breaking her vows?” (Host, quoting CNN 04:04)
  • Caller 2 counters: “She is not a popular character. So she has been called out by fans… for the way she treated him." (04:11)
  • The conversation deepens around why mistreatment is not always given the same attention as infidelity.

4. Complexity of Cheating and the "Push"

• [05:09-06:07] Host & Callers discuss if being “pushed” by a spouse makes cheating understandable:
  • "Most issues, especially those within a relationship, are rarely ever black and white with a clear cut victim and oppressor. People cheat for a variety of reasons, very few of which are strictly because they're horrible human beings." (Host 05:12)
  • Caller 2: “Cheating is just so complicated… all this debate wouldn’t happen if people had the ability to get out of the relationship first.” (05:35)
  • Some men argue that when women claim mistreatment as a “justification,” men should be able to do the same.

5. Callers Weigh In: Excuses Vs. Exits

• [06:13-07:23] Alicia takes a firm stance:
  • “I’m totally against cheating. I definitely don’t think it’s more right for a woman than it is for a man... I understand where they’re coming from, but… by cheating, that now makes you just as bad as the other person.” (Alicia 06:15, 07:11)
• [07:27-08:09] Rodney argues for taking the high road:
  • “If you cheat and then you get caught, it just in their minds, it solidifies all the things that they said were wrong about you in the beginning.” (Rodney 07:41)
  • “If you take the high road and you point out their faults and then you leave them … I think it hurts more than if you cheat and then leave under those circumstances.” (Rodney 07:51)

6. It’s a Two-Way Street—Accountability for Both Spouses

• [08:12–09:19] Unnamed Caller and Panel discuss how both parties’ actions contribute:
  • "The husband also acts like he’s a child. He doesn’t stand up for himself. ... Regardless if he cheated or not … it’s a two-way street on it.” (Caller 08:14)
  • [08:37] Panel: "Maybe she wouldn’t have to be so mean and critical of him if he actually stepped up and did something around there."
  • Unnamed caller shares a personal family story about a woman repeatedly forgiving a cheating, disease-transmitting husband (“That’s a lot at one time, wow.” 09:46).

7. Is Cheating Ever Justified?

• [10:03-10:19] Host and Caller push on justifications:
  • Host: “So you really are saying that sometimes cheating is justified?” (10:03)
  • Caller: “Yes, it is. But only if you smart. Because if you’re not smart … you gonna throw it up in their face in the first place.” (10:06)
  • The group acknowledges that some do see cheating as occasionally justified, though generally advise leaving over cheating.

8. Final Thoughts on Staying Vs. Leaving

• [10:26-10:52] Host and Panel:
  • “You give [me an STD] one time, that’s it. I’m not going to give you three other shots.” (Host 10:46–10:52) — a humorous but pointed comment on boundaries after betrayal.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [01:09] Host (Burch):
  “If a woman cheats… she justifies it by saying, ‘I've put up with his crap for so long.’ … Whereas with dudes and infidelity, it’s like, dudes are dogs.”
• [03:16] Caller 3:
  “Of all of her finest moments … she got mad at him because he exhaled loudly.”
• [04:04] Host (quoting CNN):
  “Gee, where was all the outrage when that was going on? Isn’t that kind of behavior as damaging to a marriage as cheating?”
• [06:15, 07:11] Alicia:
  “I’m totally against cheating. … But by cheating, that now makes you just as bad as the other person.”
• [07:41–07:51] Rodney:
  “If you cheat and then you get caught, it just in their minds, it solidifies all the things that they said were wrong about you in the beginning. … If you take the high road and you point out their faults and then you leave them… I think it hurts more.”
• [09:19] Unnamed Caller:
  “Every woman said, well, maybe I can change that person. You can never change a man. If he’s like that from the get go, he’s gonna always be like that.”
• [10:03–10:06] Host and Caller:
  “So you really are saying that sometimes cheating is justified?”
  “Yes, it is. But only if you smart.”
• [10:46–10:52] Host:
  “I’ve got a one disease minimum maximum. … You give it to me one time, that’s it. I’m not going to give you three other shots.”

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:27 - Introduction of the debate and CNN article premise
• 01:54 - Discussion of Jon & Kate example and reading from “Bad Wives”
• 03:28 - Exploration of marital vows and respect vs. faithfulness
• 05:09 - Cheating motivations and "being pushed" into it
• 06:13 - Alicia’s strong anti-cheating stance
• 07:27 - Rodney’s case for "the high road"
• 08:12 - Two-way street and accountability discussion
• 09:19 - Family anecdote on cheating repercussions
• 10:03 - Justification of cheating debated
• 10:46 - Final humorous take on betrayal limits

---

Tone & Takeaways

The episode adopts a candid, lively, and sometimes playful tone typical of The Bert Show—balancing real listener stories with panel banter. While perspectives differ, the overall consensus trends toward the idea that mistreatment in a marriage is damaging but does not justify cheating; the "right" answer is to leave rather than betray. Nuanced views emerge, reflecting the complexities of relationships, gender expectations, and moral choices.

---

For listeners seeking a thoughtful (and entertaining) exploration of ethical dilemmas in marriage, this episode delivers both heated debate and personal reflection—anchored by memorable soundbites and real-world scenarios.

Transcript

[Weight Watchers Representative]

Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP1s.

[Alicia]

Weight Watchers has everything I need from weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects.

[Weight Watchers Representative]

With our program, our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effect support.

[Caller 1]

Weight watchers prescribing GLP1 medications. It's been life changing.

[Weight Watchers Representative]

Better results, expert support, lose more weight, make it last, get started for as low as $[e-mail] all medications require eligibility and prescription.

[Host (Burch)]

First month is low as $25 for the 12 month plus plan does not include the cost of GLP1 medications. The Burch Show I sent too many emails from guys that listen to the Burt show about this article that was written on CNN a couple of weeks ago that I start I actually started reading it and saying, okay, let's see if there's a decent debate here. And after I read it for the third time I thought maybe there might be here. And again, this was only sent by guys and I got it like five different times. And I think the premise of it is this isn't the stereotype that if a woman cheats on her man then she justifies it by saying that, well, I've put up with his crap for

[Caller 2]

so long, she's pushed to that point.

[Host (Burch)]

I've been pushed and pushed and pushed and rather than leave completely, I was forced into the arms of another man. Whereas when you're looking at dudes and infidelity, it's like, oh, you know, dudes are dudes are dogs.

[Caller 2]

Well, it's a game playing thing for them. It's like just stack in the deck, you know, like the guys are just

[Caller 3]

seeing what they can do.

[Caller 2]

Yeah.

[Host (Burch)]

Would you say that's accurate?

[Caller 2]

Stereotypes on both sides.

[Host (Burch)]

So CNN did an article a couple of weeks ago called Is Cheating Ever Deserved? But this one looks at dudes that cheat because their wives have just been pushing them and pushing them and pushing them and it's centered around John and Kate plus eight. Does it make sense to you?

[Caller 4]

Now I see where they're coming from.

[Host (Burch)]

All right, let me read some of this to you. A man under an enormous amount of pressure is regularly and publicly emasculated and treated like dirt by his wife and seemingly seeks solace with another woman. Is it possible, maybe, just maybe, that the woman deserves to be cheated on? Then it goes on. Let me get the phone number out to you. 404-741-Q100 A woman named Susanna Breslin wrote a piece called Bad Wives and it really does fit the Jon Gosling and Kate situation. Like, to a T, anyone who has spent any time watching their show knows its subplot is their marriage. And the majority of that relationship seems to consist of Kate treating her husband like something that got stuck on the bottom of her shoe, the property of which she cannot quite identify. Eliciting a non stop look of thinly veiled disgust and disappointment. In fact, it's hard to think of moments in which the housewife is not humiliating, degrading and emasculating her husband, on camera, no less. In one episode, she actually chastised him for breathing too loudly. Did you see that one?

[Caller 3]

Yes, it was a highlight that they did.

[Caller 4]

Wow.

[Caller 3]

Like right after the marriage was ended. Of all of her finest moments, either in the house or sitting on that little love seat thing where they do their interview and she got mad at him because he exhaled loudly.

[Caller 1]

Wow.

[Host (Burch)]

There she is in the supermarket ripping him a new one for being a lousy spouse. There she is at the pumpkin patch shouting at him for being a substandard father. There she is telling him to stop mumbling like a fool. There she is explaining to the camera that she doesn't want any, that she doesn't care what anyone else thinks. The CNN article continues and it says, gee, where was all the outrage when that was going on? Isn't that kind of behavior as damaging to a marriage as cheating? If people vow when they marry to stay faithful, to respect one another, shouldn't the vows be of equal importance? Why isn't Kate's face on the COVID of tabloids for breaking her vows?

[Caller 2]

Well, I disagree that she was not getting called out for that. It's just now that we've talked about this, their ratings have gone up like doubled since this whole affair has been publicized. But from this beginning of the show, she is not a popular character. So she has been called out by fans who've been watching the show for a long time for the way that she treated him.

[Host (Burch)]

So I think the dudes that have been emailing me are saying, where's the equality in this whole thing? That if our women are pushing us and pushing us and pushing us and we cheat, how come we can't use that as the excuse when women have been using it for years?

[Caller 4]

Yeah, I think, I mean, it's an interesting take on it, especially that last part you read about the vows. I think it's really an interesting take on it because they would be as equally as important. I mean, if they're all in the same list, you know, like, you know, and her Demasculating him in public and, you know, sort of ridiculing him.

[Host (Burch)]

Says the larger issue.

[Caller 4]

One of them.

[Host (Burch)]

The larger issue is one of equality. If we're gonna point fingers at men behaving badly, we have to take a look at the woman's behavior that may provoke it. Most issues, especially those within a relationship, are rarely ever black and white with a clear cut victim and oppressor. People cheat for a variety of reasons, very few of which are strictly because they're horrible human beings.

[Caller 2]

I mean, cheating is just so complicated, though. I mean, the thought I keep thinking about is this. All this debate wouldn't happen if, you know, people had the ability to get out of the relationship first. But, I mean, it is. I mean, yeah, you need to treat each other well whether you're a man or a woman. So, I mean, I get where guys are like, wait a second now.

[Weight Watchers Representative]

We.

[Caller 2]

Because there are men out there who cheat for, you know, seemingly superficial reasons, but for sport. Yeah. And I think that has been the reputation now. But, yeah, there are good guys out there. They're like, wait a second, we were not doing that. They.

[Caller 4]

We.

[Caller 2]

It was done to us, or we were pushed or whatever. So I see where they want equal sign.

[Host (Burch)]

Hey, Alicia.

[Alicia]

Hi.

[Caller 1]

How are y'?

[Rodney]

All?

[Caller 4]

Good.

[Host (Burch)]

Good morning. How are you?

[Alicia]

Good, thanks. Pretty much. I'm totally against cheating. I always have been my whole life. I definitely don't think it's more right for a woman than it is for a man. I do think that he had a right to divorce her because how she treated him. She treated him like crap, pretty much. I watched her episodes, you know, every week, so. But I don't think that any excuse makes cheating understandable.

[Host (Burch)]

Alicia, if you had a friend in your circle, right, and every day she was complaining to you about how much of an SOB her husband was, Right. He is spending too much money. He's controlling. He doesn't trust her. She has an allowance. He's constantly belittling her. This is going on for years and years and years, but she stays in the relationship. But then she ends up either falling in love or just having an affair with another dude. At some point, do you say to her, well, I certainly understand how that happened.

[Alicia]

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I understand where they're coming from, but I. My advice to that person would be, you should have got out, because by cheating, that now makes you just as bad as the other person.

[Caller 1]

Cool.

[Host (Burch)]

Thank you.

[Caller 1]

You're welcome.

[Host (Burch)]

Rodney, you're on Q100. Hi.

[Rodney]

Hey. How you Guys doing okay. Hey, I gotta tell you, this comment runs deep. You have to go into the women's psyche just a little. I think that men. Paula was right. The men would have to take the high road and not cheat and get out of the relationship. Because if you cheat and then you get caught, it just in their minds, it solidifies all the things that they said were wrong about you in the beginning. So I think if you take the high road and you point out their faults and then you leave them because women do not like rejection, you leave them. I think it hurts more than if you cheat and then leave under those circumstances.

[Host (Burch)]

Thank you, Rodney.

[Rodney]

Thanks.

[Host (Burch)]

Good morning. Q100.

[Caller 1]

Good morning.

[Host (Burch)]

Hello.

[Caller 1]

I like to make a comment. I've listened and I've read the tabloids. Everyone is giving her a rough time. But did you ever consider there's nine kids in that house, not only her, eight. But the husband also act like he's a child. He doesn't stand up for himself. It's like he's making her make all the decisions, which isn't right. Regardless if he cheated or not, that's his choice. But it has, it's a two way street on it.

[Caller 4]

Also, like maybe she wouldn't have to be so mean and critical of him if he actually stepped up and did something around there.

[Caller 1]

I mean, exactly. He wouldn't participate in a holiday. She makes a big deal of this. Dude, you've been living with this woman for 10 years. You didn't know that already? And then all of a sudden would it be solidified on tv? Everybody's jumping on his bandwagon and I just don't think that's right because she has more pressure than he does because those kids don't always be with her.

[Caller 4]

To play devil's advocate on that. And not that I disagree with you, but didn't she know that about him before they had children? Didn't she know he was going to be like a non participant, you know, a non participating, like, you know, like per said slacker.

[Caller 1]

You know, the main thing with me, every woman said, well, maybe I can change that person. You can never change a man. If he's like that from the get go, he's gonna always be like that. That's why with my auntie, she's been married for 20 years. In the last two years, he has cheated multiple times, gave her four different diseases at one time. She still didn't leave him. And it's like, woman, I want to smack you because you're stronger than that before. At one time. That's a. That's a lot at one time. Wow.

[Caller 3]

It's like.

[Caller 1]

Yeah, so I. I agree. Sometimes you just gotta cheat. Cheat and walk away. Or if you're gonna cheat, don't cheat with a stupid woman. Get somebody that's gonna keep it on the down low and the woman never has to find out.

[Caller 2]

We're having cheating advice right now.

[Host (Burch)]

So you really are saying that sometimes cheating is justified?

[Caller 1]

Yes, it is. But only if you smart. Because if you're not smart and you trying to hurt the other person, then you gonna throw it up in their face in the first place.

[Caller 3]

So you think cheating is justified, Just not in John and Kate's case.

[Caller 1]

She just need to walk away with the kids and just throw her hands up and like move on. There's somebody out there that's gonna want her regardless of how many kids she has.

[Host (Burch)]

Look, if we had a friend in the same situation whose husband brought home four different diseases and she ended up screwing around on him, obviously with somebody that didn't know the disease that she had, you probably would all say, well, I just.

[Caller 1]

I know. I would always say.

[Caller 2]

I would always say you were stupid for staying. Yeah, Levi, you're stupid for staying.

[Host (Burch)]

Yeah, I've got a one disease minimum maximum. I should say, you give it to

[Caller 2]

me one time, that's it.

[Host (Burch)]

I'm not going to give you three other shots. The Birch show.