Vault: Is she done with marriage?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Bert Show

Episode: Vault: Is she done with marriage?
Date: June 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this honest and thought-provoking episode, The Bert Show cast opens up about shifting beliefs on marriage, especially after divorce. The discussion centers on whether marriage is still an essential goal, how personal experiences (successes and failures) shape our attitudes, and what it realistically takes to sustain a lasting relationship. Real listener input and varied life perspectives—ranging from hopeful to skeptical—add depth and humor to this authentic morning chat.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Jen’s Philosophical Shift on Marriage (01:02 - 05:08)

• Jen reflects on how her divorce fundamentally changed her outlook on marriage:
  • She confesses to once doubting marriage altogether, especially after her personal experience.
  • While she values the concept of family and is drawn to the traditional structure for raising children, she now approaches the idea of marriage with realism rather than idealism.
  • She notes envy toward people (like producer Joanna) who still regard marriage with "dreamy eyes," saying,
    "I don't think I would ever approach it in the same way again." (02:07)
  • Jen grapples with the paradox of having wonderful parental role models but having experienced a failed marriage herself.
• Burt asks Jen to clarify whether her skepticism is about marriage working at all or about her own openness to being with one person.
• Jen:
  "I've always said since, since going through my divorce that I wasn't sure that I believed in marriage. And I kind of liked couples who stayed together because they just wanted to be together, not because they had to be." (02:55)
  • Jen admits she can "count on one hand" the number of truly happy marriages she knows, her parents being among them. (03:00)

2. The Desire for Partnership vs. the Fear of Failure (05:08 - 06:32)

• Burt candidly shares that marriage is harder than raising kids because it demands constant compromise.

  • He says,
    "Marriage is the hardest thing you'll ever have to do. For me. It's not raising kids. It's compromising all the time ... If Stacy and I didn't work out, I would not get married again." (05:08)

• Jen points out that his perspective is influenced by already having children—he doesn’t "need" marriage for family-building anymore.

• Kenny and Melissa add levity with jokes about vasectomies and "windows closing" on starting a new family, but acknowledge the fear of failure is ever-present when considering remarriage.
  Jen: "Of course. Yes. Yes, Absolutely." (06:32)

3. Social Pressure, Settling, and the Fairy Tale Myth (06:37 - 08:06)

• Caller Christina recounts her own journey post-divorce—feeling jaded, not trusting men, and fearing single motherhood. She notes heavy societal pressure, especially on young women, to "hurry up" and settle down.
• Kenny suggests the high divorce rate is linked to people marrying for the wrong reasons—being enthralled by the "fairy tale" more than the person.
  • He points out how long some people, like producer Joanna, remain in the fantasy role of "princess" during wedding planning.
    Melissa: "She's been the princess for a long time." (07:59)

4. The Importance of Age, Growth, and Self-Knowledge (08:06 - 10:27)

• Kenny and Burt recommend waiting until at least late 20s to marry, noting the enormous personal growth that occurs from the 20s to 40s.
• Burt:
  "The more I'm married to Stacy...the more I realize how perfect she is for me...if it's not with Stacy, then I'm...I can't do it with anybody." (05:26)
• Jen and Burt acknowledge that people change and evolve significantly over time; the person you’re with at 22 likely won’t be the right match at 42.
  • Burt:
    "If I didn't know myself, how could I possibly know the partner that I wanted to be with for the rest of my life?" (08:20)
  • Jen:
    "Thank goodness she [Stacy] has [evolved], or else she'd be not living her life." (08:55)

5. Raw Relationships and the Marriage “Option” (09:23 - 10:27)

• Kenny shares that, as a gay couple who legally can’t marry, his relationship with Katie is built purely on choice—not obligation.

  "We are with each other every day because we want to be...when you take that [marriage] out of it, that is when you start looking at your relationship raw." (09:27)

6. Rethinking Success, Failure, and the Purpose of Marriage (10:27 - 13:37)

• Kara (caller) challenges the panel’s take on maturity and age, asking if self-discovery is only linked to being older.
  • Burt clarifies:
    "You at 22 are going to be such a different person at 32 and at 42." (10:55)

• Jen redefines marital success:

  "It's not a success to be in an unhappy marriage... This is your one shot at life...I think a failure is being in a miserable marriage just as much as it is a failed marriage." (11:36)
  • She’s proud of overcoming the sense of failure attached to divorce.
• Kenny argues that divorce is sometimes a lifesaver—better than staying stuck in an unhealthy or miserable situation, as many in past generations did out of necessity.
  • He affirms,
    "Divorce is a fantastic option if, like Jen said, it's an unhappy marriage." (12:40)

• Both advise young people not to rush into marriage, stressing happiness and self-knowledge above societal timelines.

  Kenny: "At 22, 25, forget trying to figure it out...just be happy." (13:10)

7. Humorous Takeaways & Notable Quotes (13:37 - 13:52)

• Melissa jokingly summarizes the team’s unofficial advice:
  "Melissa said, don't get married or own a pit bull. And Bert said, don't get married until you're 35 and don't own a pit bull." (13:37)

• Jen ends with a vulnerability: "I said I thought I didn't want to get married again, and now I do." (13:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I can probably only count on one hand the number of married couples I know that are happy." – Jen (03:00)
• "If Stacy and I didn't work out, I would not get married again." – Burt (05:08)
• "Marriage is the hardest thing you'll ever have to do. For me." – Burt (05:08)
• "It's not a success to be in an unhappy marriage...This is your one shot at life." – Jen (11:36)
• "Divorce is a fantastic option if, like Jen said, it's an unhappy marriage." – Kenny (12:40)
• "At 22, 25, forget trying to figure it out...just be happy." – Kenny (13:10)
• "I said I thought I didn’t want to get married again, and now I do." – Jen (13:48)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:02 – Jen begins reflecting on post-divorce views on marriage
• 03:00 – Jen discusses the rarity of happy marriages in her experience
• 05:08 – Burt shares why he’d never remarry if his current marriage failed
• 06:40 – Caller Christina describes her changed perspective post-divorce
• 07:33-08:20 – Team debates how social pressure and age factor in marrying young
• 09:23 – Kenny offers insight into relationships without the marriage option
• 10:30-10:59 – Caller Kara questions assumptions about age and self-knowledge
• 11:36 – Jen reframes marital success and failure
• 13:10 – Kenny and Melissa offer comedic closing advice

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Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, relatable, and peppered with humor, but never shies away from emotional vulnerability and hard truths. The hosts and callers speak directly from personal experience, sometimes joking, sometimes raw, ultimately creating a space for honest dialogue about love, failure, growth, and hope.

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This episode is a relatable, unfiltered exploration of modern relationships—perfect for anyone questioning the necessity, meaning, or future of marriage in their own lives.

Transcript

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[Jen]

So Burt just said that I might have had a shift in my. What did you have?

[Burt]

Philosophical shift.

[Jen]

Philosophical shift. In my opinion of marriage, Yeah, I think it shifts all the time. I think once you've been married and divorced like I have been, I think your whole attitude about things change a little bit. I think you're more skeptical of it and that kind of thing.

[Burt]

So you're skeptical that it just can't work or you're skeptical that you just want to be with one person or what's the. At the root of it?

[Jen]

Well, and I think at the root of it is that, you know, it feels like for a long time a big failure and then you sort of grow and get over that. And it's not quite as emotional every time you say the word or think about it or whatever. And time definitely heals a whole lot of things. But, you know, I think it's something I continue to think about because I'd like to have children and I want to have a family. And I think the best way to do that, if you can, is through a marriage. And so I have this whole, like, inner struggle a lot because on one side I think that that's really, you know, the best way to have a family unit. If that's the way that you can do it and that's the way that it works out for you, awesome, you know, but at the same time, I think on the other side, when you go through it, you have a lot more realistic view of Marriage. You know, I am envious of Joanna, producer Joanna and her sort of like dreamy eyes and dreamy thoughts about marriage and that kind of thing, because I don't think I would ever approach it in the same way again. You know, I think when you, I don't know, when you go through something like that, you just, you look at things much more realistically because you sort of been there and you know what it takes, do you know, to be, to be in a marriage and to make one. Make one last or what makes one not last. So I don't know. So I've always said since, since going through my divorce that I wasn't sure that I believed in marriage. And I kind of liked couples who stayed together because they just wanted to be together, not because they had to be, you know, And I gotta be really, really honest. I can probably only count on one hand the number of married couples I know that are happy.

[Lady Luck]

Wow.

[Jen]

You know, and my parents being one of them. And so that's the weird thing for me, like when I talk about it now with friends or.

[Melissa]

Why are you judging me all the time?

[Narrator]

I'm not.

[Jen]

I'm not at all. I just. And I have a new boyfriend. And as we. And he's been married previously as well. And you know, as we talk about it and talk about whether you believe in it or this and that and the other thing, whatever, it's just interest how it brings up. All of it just brings up a different thought process about it. It's much more. It's much less dreamy. And reading through Martha Stewart wedding magazines and the whole live happily ever after thing, I mean, I think you realize, I don't know, there's just a lot more, a lot more to it than what you believe. When you're 20 something and you just buy the fairy tale, do you entertain the thought of getting married again or is it just completely shut off? I do. And I guess I lost my train of thought. I was kind of ramb. It's kind of an emotional topic, so I'm kind of rambling, but I thought for a long time I didn't want to get married again.

[Burt]

I thought, you know, that's natural after a divorce for sure.

[Caller Christina]

Right?

[Jen]

Yeah, I just was like, I mean,

[Burt]

even after when you were single and you were just dating after a breakup, you're like, I'm not dating guys for the longest time.

[Jen]

Yeah, I just, I thought, no, you know, I'm gonna be totally cool. I'm gonna be like the Brad and Angelina. Like I'm gonna find somebody and just have kids, and we're not gonna get married. You know, we'll take this down. We won't get married till gay couples can get married, and now gay couples can start to get married in. I kind of started changing my thought on that. I'm gonna really stick to it, but, you know, I kind of thought that for a while, but. So I think I did have a sort of a shift on marriage. But I look at my parents, and they work very hard at it, and they're very, very happy, and they still flirt, and my father still calls my mother his bride, and he still grabs her butt in the kitchen, and they still make out and gross out me and my brother. And I think it's awesome, you know, So I have, like, one of the greatest examples of marriage that I grew up with, but it's not what I experienced. So I go back and forth between the two, like, can you really do it? Can you not? You know, And I think. I think the shift from I don't ever want to get married again is shifting back again for me.

[Burt]

And I've said this before, that marriage is the hardest thing you'll ever have to do. For me. It's not raising kids. It's compromising all the time and being in a marriage. That said, if Stacy and I didn't work out, I would not get married again. And I think for a couple of different reasons. Damn. It's a lot of work, and I'm just. I'd be tired. But the more I'm married to Stacy, especially the last couple of months, and here we are, we're 13 years into it. The longer that we're with each other, the more I realize how perfect she is for me, the more I realize that there's a. I understand why we're together now, and I sort of feel like if it's not with Stacy, then I'm. I can't do it with anybody.

[Jen]

Well, and I think that you're in a different place because you have your kids already. I mean, you got a vasectomy. You're not having kids with anybody else. If you. Even if you decided years down the road to get married.

[Burt]

My second one was, like, six hours old, and I went in maybe when they.

[Jen]

You know what I'm saying? That's the stage in life to be able to sort of make a proclamation like that that, you know, if for some reason you guys didn't work or.

[Burt]

Yeah, I mean, I've got forbidden.

[Jen]

You were. You were widowed or. God, you know, God forbid something like that happened. I think that's an easier statement for you to make because you have children.

[Burt]

Yeah, I think you're probably right.

[Jen]

You know?

[Burt]

Yeah.

[Jen]

What were you going to say?

[Kenny]

You make a joke about his vasectomy.

[Melissa]

Oh, yeah, it's gone.

[Kenny]

Windows closed.

[Jen]

I'm going to make a frozen peace. Is there a fear of getting married again?

[Kenny]

Failure.

[Jen]

Of course. Yes. Yes, Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Burt]

Here is Christina. Good Morning. You're on Q100.

[Caller Christina]

Good morning, Burchell. How are you guys doing?

[Burt]

Great, thanks.

[Jen]

Good.

[Caller Christina]

Love you guys. Jen, I was so totally in your shoes about five years ago. I got divorced after seven years, and fortunately, we did not have kids. But I was so jaded. Didn't want marriage, didn't want kids. And I think it came down to I was so frustrated with my ex that I didn't trust a man to raise a family because I didn't want to be a single mom and just really scared of being a single mom. So I thought then, kids aren't for me because I'm not going to be with somebody that I didn't. Couldn't trust to stand by me to raise a family. But I think women, especially women in their early 20s, there's such a social expectation to hurry up and get married and have kids that you almost tend to settle without realizing it, that you're going to somehow be on the outs if you don't hurry up and get married and have a family. Yeah.

[Kenny]

I think that's where the point comes in. I think that. That my opinion of why divorce, the divorce rate is so high is because I do think people are marrying the wrong. I do think that they are more fascinated. Exactly what Jen said with the fairytale of it. And they want that day, and they want to be the princess for the

[Jen]

day, and they want the day, the year. I mean, you know, producer Joanna's got a year and a half that she's the princess, the bride.

[Melissa]

She's been the princess for a long time.

[Kenny]

And I just think she's not using

[Melissa]

the wedding as an excuse to be.

[Kenny]

And I just think so many people. And I agree with Burks, you know, he jokes about it, but I agree, like, if you can wait till your late 20s, at least, I think that you should. Well, I think it's better for you. I think you'll be a better wife, a better husband, a better person.

[Burt]

By that point, I mean, you know, and as I get older, I just realized how I had no idea who I was in my 20s, in my early 20s. So if I didn't know myself. How could I possibly know the partner that I wanted to be with for the rest of my life? And you just evolved so much from your 20s to your 30s and from your 30s to. To your 40s, that I understand why relationships don't work out. Because at the end of the day, Stacy is a completely different person now than she was back then. Thank goodness I haven't evolved, not even a little bit. But no, we both have evolved into such a different person. Yeah.

[Jen]

Yeah, thank goodness she has, or else she'd be not living her life.

[Kenny]

But you have to be able to grow old with somebody, and that's the key. And Kenny. Ma perspective's different. It's a whole different attitude with women when you can't. I mean, you find that it is this veil that is put. Especially women. And I'm leaving men out of it because women are the ones that buy into this fairy tale thing. And you know, guys, you know, they. Women force, you know, your hand sometimes at wanting to get married or talking about it.

[Jen]

Oh, God, the pulling teeth. No way.

[Kenny]

So the thing is, when you can get married, like Katie and I, when it's not an option, we cannot get married. So when you take that out of it, that is when you start looking at your relationship raw, you know, like you said. Yeah. Katie and I choose to be together. We don't. Again, we don't have the option. And we are with each other every day because we want to be. And we, you know, like you, like you just said, Bert, we see how we complement each other and we see how we need each other and we fight and we love and we do all these things and it's raw. And the older we've gotten, the more we see how much of the mind game it is just to have this wedding and marriage option. You know, the fun, the legal part of it, we do miss the, the connection that way. We do miss. But when it comes to day in and day out communication and conversation and the way we live it, we do sometimes find it fascinating when we watch straight couples in just the. The weird. The weirdness that's between them for no reason whatsoever.

[Burt]

Hey, Kara. Good morning. You're part of the bird show.

[Caller Christina]

Hey. I was just kind of wondering, why does he think that, like, all 20 something year olds don't know who they are?

[Burt]

Kara, Kara, stop. When we. When you can't draw generalizations on everybody, right? I mean, you just can't say all. But I think as a general rule, you. You at 22 are going to be such a different person at 32 and at 42.

[Caller Christina]

Right. And that would be said of someone in their 30s, how they're gonna be in their 50s.

[Kenny]

But I'm glad that I didn't. I'm glad that I am not with the woman I was with when I was 22. I'm glad I'm with the woman I'm with now.

[Burt]

Look, I think the point here is that when you're looking at marriage, right, and you look at the success rate of marriage, it's abysmal, it's terrible, it's awful. It's an institution that technically, statistically doesn't work. If it was a disease and 60% of the people in the country were infected by this disease, the government would be like, we've gotta solve this. You know, it's an infection. But everybody's doing the same thing today that they were doing 30 years ago. And that's why that statistics not changing. So I think you gotta change the rules.

[Jen]

I also have to say too that I think that it's not a success to be in an unhappy marriage. I agree to be miserable and married. I don't think that's successful. I think if you're just staying in it so that you're not a quote unquote statistic, that, I mean, this is your one shot at life. Like, we don't get it. This is not a dress rehearsal. Like, we don't get to do this again. Like, this is it. So, So I think that a failure is being in a miserable marriage just as much as it is a failed marriage. I mean, I think they're, I think they're on equal playing grounds. But I, I don't feel like I, I felt for a long time that getting divorced was a failure, but I don't anymore. I absolutely claim it, have lived through it and moved on from it. And I don't, I don't see it as a failure anymore. I think staying miserable for a really, really long time and people who do it for a really, really long time and is. I think that that's a failure too. If you're not talking to your spouse, if you're not sleeping with your spouse, if you're not intimate with your spouse, if you don't communicate like Melissa's been talking about, and you're just roommates in a marriage just because you have to be, that's a big time failure too.

[Kenny]

And divorce is there to save people. Like our grandparents. You know, if you look back at other generations, those are some. There was A lot of miserable people in a time when divorce was not cool and when you couldn't get it and when you could, you couldn't have it. I mean, to me there was a lot of abusive situations. And to me, divorce is a fantastic option if, like Jen said, it's an unhappy marriage. But you know, going back to that caller, the reason, the reason I'm glad I'm not with the woman I was with at 22 has nothing to do with her. Fantastic woman. But we weren't right for each other. You know what I mean?

[Burt]

You don't know that then.

[Kenny]

And we. And at 22, I really think that you should not worry so much about being married and planning the rest of your life because for God's sake, that. I mean, I would. Yeah, I'm much happier now than I ever was in my 20s, and I plan on being happier in my 50s, more so than I am now. You know what I mean? So at 22, 25, forget trying to figure it out. Figuring it out. And that is why people rush into marriage. Forget it. Leave marriage alone and just be happy.

[Melissa]

So if you weren't listening, Melissa said, don't get married or own a pit bull. And Bert said, don't get married until you're 35 and don't own a pit bull. Right. Just want to make sure.

[Jen]

I said I thought I didn't want to get married again, and now I do.

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