Host 1 (1:44)

Listen, it's the vert show.

Host 2 (1:46)

We have a Birch show listener on the line right now on the voice disguiser. We're going to call him Jason. Very nervous to come on because he wants to make this work with his girlfriend. She has given him basically every opportunity to leave this relationship and done it in sometimes very cruel ways. So I think our initial response is gonna be a natural one. And it's gonna be one to say, you gotta get out of this thing, dude. You gotta get out. But I'm more curious if we can actually find virtual listeners that have hit rock bottom. I mean, just rock bottom with their boyfriends, girlfriends, wives, husbands, and. And stayed in the relationship. And it actually worked out in the end, like, maybe. Cause he's so committed to making this work, you can give him some hope. And I'm hoping it's not a dangerous thing to do. I don't even know if we'll get any calls on it. Okay, let's at least hear him out. Hey, Jason. Good morning.

Jason (2:38)

Hey, what's up, guys?

Host 2 (2:39)

Hi. You're on the voice disguiser.

Jason (2:41)

That's good. That's good.

Host 2 (2:42)

All right, go ahead and detail for us the relationship, how many years you guys have been going out and some of the kind of infractions that have gone on in the relationship. Because you really do. And reading your email, you have. I mean, if it's me, I'm out the first time. But you have stayed in time and time and time again.

Jason (3:01)

That is right. I've been with this girl, say, I don't know, about two and a half, three years. And she's loved my wife, I'll admit that. And we've had some rough times recently, but we came across a situation where she went on this business trip. She's in sales, and she's not a very good salesperson. So she was excited about this opportunity. So she tells me she goes on this business trip and she leaves. She kiss me goodbye. And I don't hear for about two or three days. Of course, I get a little worried. I look in the kitchen. I find it kind of strange that her briefcase is still there. And I thought she should have taken a briefcase on the business trip. So me being a little nosy, I go in there and kind of take a peek, and there are all these brochures, like virgin islands. And there's these little sticky notes attached to him saying, I love you. I can't wait to see you. I can't wait to see you in a bathing suit. Of course, I'm getting a little curious about at this point, trying to figure out what's going on. So I call her boss and go, listen, there's a way to get a hold of so and so in Houston, because that's where she told me she was going, and her boss told me that she's not in Houston. She took an Eight day leave of absence to go to the Virgin Islands. And it turns out like, you have to know who she went with. And he told me that another co worker took another eight day of absence as well.

Host 2 (4:19)

So you started putting it all together.

Jason (4:20)

Yeah, I finally just figured it all out. Of course I'm a little angry at this point. I don't know what to do.

Host 3 (4:26)

A little angry, I'm a little annoyed. That's kind of a little bit of a thorn on my side. But other than that, I love her.

Jason (4:35)

Yeah. So finally confront her. And she didn't really give me any really good reason about what she did other than she was sorry and she felt stupid about it. Of course. Big part of me wants to take her back and big part and big partner says, you know, dude, what are you thinking? Move on with your life.

Host 2 (4:51)

Did she give you any indication this was just a kind of a physical thing with this guy, or do you think that she's emotionally wrapped up in him?

Jason (4:57)

I think she's emotionally wrapped up in him. I think so.

Host 2 (5:00)

What makes you say that?

Jason (5:02)

I don't know. I think, I guess the letters I found or the little post it notes I found in the, in our briefcase. They're kind of going back and forth between the two.

Host 2 (5:11)

So these weren't just post it notes from him eager to hang out with her, they were also from her telling him how excited she was to be hanging out with him.

Jason (5:20)

Exactly.

Adam (5:21)

So is she still seeing this guy?

Jason (5:24)

I don't know. I really don't know at this point. So she told me she's not, but at this point I'm not sure if I can believe a word she says. So she says she wants me to come back, but I don't know.

Adam (5:34)

At what point do you, at what point do you think you can believe what she's saying? Because I think that's always the issue when cheating happens.

Jason (5:41)

That's the thing. I really don't know. I really don't know. I guess my question, I know the obvious question everyone's gonna say is that is get out. Yeah, get out, dude, come on.

Host 1 (5:49)

Right?

Jason (5:49)

You're never gonna, you're never gonna trust her again. Every time she goes out to go for a walk or anything like that, you know you're gonna question where she is. So just get out.

Host 2 (5:57)

Now. Is this the first thing that's happened in the relationship that you have not been happy with or. Let's talk about the last three years.

Jason (6:04)

Yeah, there have been some other things, but I prefer not to disclose that. But yeah, There have been other things that question my trust about her in.

Host 3 (6:11)

In the realm of infidelity.

Jason (6:15)

I believe that she was 100% faithful to me during that time because for the past, I guess I don't like six or seven months, I guess she's been doing this. I knew something was up. I just couldn't, I just couldn't figure it out.

Host 2 (6:27)

Without saying too much and just paraphrasing his email, it has been three years where he feels like and if I am mistalking here, I'm misrepresenting you. Just, you know, Jason, say something. Okay, but according to your email, it's like three years of her just taking advantage of you and your kindness time and time again in a couple of different areas and you not feeling like you're getting a lot back but you for whatever reason can't break away.

Jason (6:53)

Yeah, that's correct.

Adam (6:54)

So it's not a balance. I mean, it's hard to know how harshly to react since we don't know the rest of what's going on but. So it's never been a balanced relationship.

Jason (7:08)

I don't believe it has. Of course, you may hear another story. I mean, there's always two sides to the story which is like I don't want to be the guy who's. He says that my side is the only side and so why do you.

Caller 1 (7:20)

Want to stay with this woman?

Jason (7:21)

I don't know. I guess sounds cheesy. It sounds she's the love of my life. I mean, you know, there's no doubt that I'm in love with her. So I don't know if this, this will work out or not. That's the reason, I guess I'm trying to. What I'm trying to figure out that have there actually been success stories where relationships have gone through this and they actually move forward to fossil and successful marriage or whatnot?

Host 3 (7:41)

Have you equated the balance of having being with the love of your life versus a life of misery?

Jason (7:49)

Yeah, I hear that all the time. I hear that all the time.

Host 3 (7:52)

Like, so when you do that, when you do the math or whatever, is it worth it to spend a significant portion of your time? Because let's say you have a talk with her and she says, you know what, you're right and she breaks it off with this guy like you're not going to recover like tomorrow, everything's not going to be okay. Like you're going to have to spend, you know, X number of weeks or months or years getting over this. And then once you're completely over it. Always in the back your mind is the doubt she's gonna do it again.

Host 2 (8:20)

Is that.

Host 3 (8:20)

Is that worth it? Is that how much you love her?

Jason (8:23)

I don't know.

Host 3 (8:24)

Are you prepared for that?

Host 2 (8:26)

Well, here's what I kind of want to stay away from, because as you can imagine, most people right now are calling up saying, you got to get out. And there are a hundred different reasons that you've probably already gone through your. Your mind on that you should get out. She's never going to show you the respect that you deserve. If she can do this and not show as much remorse as you think she should show, she's going to do it again. Those are the calls that are coming in. Yeah, well, what I want to try to do is I want to actually try to find somebody listening to your situation going, you think yours was bad? Here's where mine was at. I stayed in the relationship and maybe give you some insight on exactly what happened. If it worked out, great. If not, then you'll know what your future is going to be.

Jason (9:04)

All right, let's do it. I'd love to hear those stories, Bert.

Caller 1 (9:07)

Don'T you know of a marriage that survives something pretty. Like a pretty intense affair?

Host 2 (9:13)

Yeah, this is.

Caller 1 (9:14)

I don't know if you're allowed to talk about it. That's why I was sort of dancing around.

Host 2 (9:16)

Well, I told you about the one last week, which is almost similar to this one, where dude goes to Vegas, falls in love, quote, unquote, with a stripper in Vegas, goes back home with a stripper, goes back home to his wife in Dallas and says, you know, I need to go find myself. I need to go. I don't know. I'm gonna go to Costa Rica for a couple of weeks just to see if I can find myself. I'm so confused about where I am in my life. And she's like, all right, go do what you gotta do. You know, I mean, if this is really what you have to do, spend some time by yourself, go ahead. So she finds out later that he ends up going down to Costa Rica with this stripper and spends like a month with her. Kept calling back to Dallas saying, haven't found myself just yet. I need another week. So it ended up being like four or six weeks down in Costa Rica. He flies home. She finds out and stays in the relationship for the sake of the kids. And fast forward a couple of years, the relationship is fine, at least on paper. What it looks like publicly is that they're together, and they both say that they're happy. Now, I look at a couple like that, and I'm like, if I'm her, I'm out. There's no way I could ever get over that. But they stayed together, and at least in their case, publicly, it's all worked out.

Caller 1 (10:26)

Did he come home, your friend, and confess the whole thing, or she had.

Host 2 (10:31)

To discover it, she found out while he was there.

Caller 1 (10:32)

I think there's a difference there. Like, I feel like with. I'm sorry, what's your name again that we were calling you?

Host 2 (10:38)

Jason.

Caller 1 (10:38)

Jason. I feel like if your girlfriend came back and confessed it to you without you, like, snooping and finding it and, like, busting her or whatever, I feel like there might be some sort of ounce of hope there.

Host 2 (10:52)

You know what I mean?

Caller 1 (10:53)

Like, if she was like, I made the biggest mistake of my life, please forgive me, blah, blah, blah.

Jason (10:57)

I feel like she feels that way. I mean, be honest. First. First thing she said was she got mad at me for going through a briefcase.

Adam (11:04)

Yeah. So many things happen in a relationship, you know, like, even we talked to intern error before about outside forces you can't control. I mean, and this. I'm talking about more minor infractions in a relationship, but you can't control the outside forces that come in. But the people in the relationship better react in the appropriate way. That's what destroys a relationship, is the reaction, not the actual event that may have occurred.

Host 3 (11:26)

Oh, no. I think sometimes it's having another naked man on top of your wife.

Adam (11:32)

Like I said, minor infractions. That's the case with this one. I don't know.

Host 2 (11:35)

All right, Jason, I'm gonna put you on a hole. We're gonna take some calls from people that say that you should stick it out. But I want you again to know that 98 of the phone calls that are coming in are saying, this is never, ever gonna work. Okay?

Jason (11:49)

I feel that way, too. I. I really do. But let's see how this comes.

Host 2 (11:52)

All right, hold on a second, please.

Host 3 (11:54)

Let me hear those calls, please.

Host 2 (11:56)

Good morning, Kimberly.

Caller 2 (11:58)

Hello.

Host 2 (11:59)

Weave us a tale.

Adam (12:01)

Okay.

Caller 2 (continued) (12:02)

My husband and I actually started out.

Caller 2 (12:04)

As high school sweethearts.

Caller 2 (continued) (12:05)

And at this point, we've been together for almost 13 years. But for probably 11 years out of those 13, and two kids later, he cheated on me. He got hooked on methamphetamines. He would leave and stay gone for days, even weeks at a time. Finally, it came to a point where it had to be, for me, a choice between him and my children. So I chose my children and kicked him out, but I still stood by him to get him through the drug addiction and everything. We've gotten back together. We've been together for a year now, and things couldn't be better.

Host 2 (12:35)

Really?

Caller 2 (continued) (12:36)

Yeah.

Host 2 (12:37)

That's a real love right there, man. Because seriously, I guess maybe my love superficial or whatever, but, man, he was screwing around for how long?

Caller 2 (continued) (12:45)

You know, off and on, I think that I actually caught him three times for over about 10 years. And, you know, about a year ago, and this may will be a year ago, we got back together and he's. I mean, done a complete turnaround. He's not on drugs. He's not talking to any of those people anymore. I mean, he's all about his children and his family, and he does exactly what he's supposed to do every day. I don't have to worry when he walks out the door anymore. It's a good feeling. It did take a long time to get over that, though. He's gonna. It's not gonna be an overnight thing, and he's gonna go through ups and downs for a long time.

Host 2 (13:18)

The obvious question to you is the same one that I think Jen just asked is like, why, why, why? Why did you decide to stay in it? What did you see in this guy?

Caller 2 (continued) (13:26)

I love him. And I guess the time that I spent in the relationship and I guess it helped that I had children with him, but, you know, if I didn't have the children with him, I don't know that I would have stuck around as long as I have.

Caller 2 (13:37)

But I just love him.

Host 2 (13:40)

All right, so you say hold on.

Jason (13:42)

Yeah.

Host 2 (13:43)

Okay. Thank you, Jesus.

Adam (13:45)

Held on with warning, though. It's gonna take a while.

Host 2 (13:47)

Hey, Patrick. Good morning.

Caller 3 (13:48)

Hey, what's up, guys?

Host 3 (13:49)

Hey, man.

Caller 3 (13:51)

Basically, I thought that he should stick with it. My fiance and I, we've been together for almost three years. There were a couple of three times maybe that throughout that time, I had my suspicions that maybe something was going on, but I could never prove it. And then we started working together and worked together for about a year, and she started kind of hanging out with this guy that we worked with, but it wasn't ever, like, for extended periods of time. It was just like going out to dinner and hanging out. And I addressed it. I was very like, I'm not approval of this at all. And we broke up actually, because of it. And we were separated for about a couple of months. And then we ended up kind of working it out, talking it out, got back together. And of course, the biggest issue is the trust factor. You Know, can I trust her? We spent a few months basically not. I wasn't, like, keeping tabs on or anything, but, like, I was like, okay, can I trust her? Can I trust her? And it just started working its way up, and now we're engaged to be married. So it can work, but it's just gonna take time. And if she's willing to gain the trust back, that's gotta be at least half the equation. She's got to want to get the trust back.

Host 2 (14:58)

You don't even sound like he's got that right.

Adam (15:00)

Yeah, because. Yeah, I think the warnings from both are coming from. Because I don't think we're even talking about the little things. It's not only walking out the door, but I know in my. For me, it would be every time the phone rings, every time. You know, like, just every little tiny thing that happens in the back of your mind. And I just don't know. You have to have the energy to be able to handle it and work through it, and, I don't know, be the type of person that could do that.

Host 3 (15:22)

It's not only him. Like, she has to be prepared that anytime he says, let me look in your briefcase, she has to let him, no matter what, hey, let me see your email. For no reason. He could have no reason. But she has to be able to say, sure, hey, let me look at you.

Adam (15:34)

Is that one time she says, why? Then it's the suspicion.

Host 3 (15:37)

Hey, let's listen to your voicemail and speakerphone.

Host 1 (15:39)

Like she has.

Host 3 (15:40)

She has to be okay with that.

Host 2 (15:42)

I can't. I would not be able to get over, like, you know how I think guys look at this stuff physically and women look at it emotionally. Just the thought of him, like Jeff said before, being on top of my wife or them walking down the beach, and I don't. I can't remember where he said St. Barts or whatever. Together, hand in hand. Just the physical picture of that.

Adam (16:02)

Oh, women think that, too.

Host 2 (16:03)

Stay in my mind so much that I. I couldn't get over that.

Adam (16:06)

Yeah. Yeah.

Host 2 (16:08)

Good morning, Jackie. You're on the Burt show. All the hits. Q100.

Caller 2 (continued) (16:11)

Hi. How are you?

Host 2 (16:12)

Good. All right. Everybody was telling you to get out, but you stuck it out. And you're glad you. And you're glad you did.

Caller 2 (16:17)

Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's. Me and my boyfriend have been together for, you know, a little over two years. And actually going into the relationship, he was actually engaged. So it already started off as, like, a rocky point. He ended up getting married while we Were together. They have a little girl together, you know, and he was like, you know, I'll come back and get annulment. And so, you know, route the bat. I was, like, completely hurt, you know, he was like, he's like, I'll come back. You know, this. It was crazy. And so while he was gone on his honeymoon, this is what people are like. You are crazy. I wasn't faithful. And he found out, and, you know, so kind of like a both situation where we were both kind of, you know, questionable. And even to this day, I mean, he forgave me for everything, but yet he still, you know, throws things in my face, checks my phone, does all that.

Host 2 (17:11)

Hold on a second. So hold on a second. So this guy was engaged to another woman, screwed around with you on that woman, you screwed around on him, and he's forgiven you?

Caller 2 (17:26)

Well, yeah, but, no, I trust him as far as not cheating on me. Even though, yes, he did go and get married. I mean, he has a little girl, you know, they came back, got annulment, everything like that. But, yeah, exactly. I'm like, well, do you. I stood by your side through the whole divorce thing. I've been by your side through everything, and yet you still. I'm like the big bad guy, you.

Adam (17:53)

Know, the feeling I have right now is, you know, when you were, like, in science class, and there's 10 minutes left in the period, and you just know, you know what? They're going to keep talking, but I know that it's almost done, so I'm not going to listen. I mean, no offense, but. Yeah, I don't. I could recall a sentence you said.

Caller 1 (18:07)

It sounds too exhausting. It just. I mean, to me, for Jason, it just sounds like a life of struggle and turmoil, questions and love of earth life just untrust and. Oh, it just sounds exhausting.

Host 2 (18:22)

Jason, we. We can find more calls to say, you know, that the boyfriends or the girlfriends or the wives, Husbands were screwing around and they stayed together, you know, and they're still together three years later. You know, I want to be the kind of person that admires that kind of strength, but I'm not. It just feels to me like you're just kind of a pushover.

Jason (18:41)

Yeah, I'm trying to feel that, too.

Adam (18:42)

I think if it's again, about the reaction, like Jen said, if her reaction was completely different and she came to you first or she said, you know what? I totally regret this. Please, let's figure out how we can make it work. And it goes back to what Jeff said, then she would be glad to let you see her phone. Glad to let you see your briefcase. Look, I will do everything I can to make this up to you and then maybe you can work it out because you both are willing to make something of it. But I'm not sure that that's the case.

Host 2 (19:07)

Like, dude, you sound like you've got a lot of love to give, man. A lot of love. And you should get a puppy or a goldfish. Yeah, but it doesn't sound, it doesn't sound like she does she. She doesn't deserve your love. I mean, you've shown her for three years now how much you love her and she's disrespected you for three years. Shouldn't deserve it.

Jason (19:26)

You're right, guys.

Adam (19:27)

And one of the, one of the things yesterday on the women's panel that came up. Infidelity came up or, you know, and we talked about creating an environment in which it's okay and it wasn't even infidelity. There was some. Another issue that came up on the women's panel panel and it brought up creating your own environment of acceptance. Like if you, you know, that's where in a relate. I mean, relationships are complicated. You either stand up for yourself or you compromise. And in this case, like if you, if she's not regretful and you make it okay for her not to be regretful and you stay and you put up with whatever, then you've created an environment where she can take advantage of you again and it's going to be okay, you know, like, yeah, there.

Host 2 (20:03)

I don't know what she's going to have to do to you to prove to you that she related. Want to be part of this, you.

Jason (20:08)

Know, and I'm not sensing right now, guy, so it's like that.

Caller 1 (20:12)

It's that whole saying where it's like, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Host 2 (20:19)

Right?

Host 3 (20:19)

And that year old saying, there's a sucker born every minute.

Adam (20:23)

And then don't take a wooden nickel.

Host 2 (20:26)

What?

Host 3 (20:26)

That's a good one.

Adam (20:27)

That's the most important one.

Host 3 (20:28)

A stitch in time saves nine.

Host 2 (20:30)

You know what they say, early bird catches the worm. Jason, that's our advice to you, my friend.

Jason (20:35)

All right.

Host 3 (20:35)

Milk. It does somebody good, my friend.

Host 2 (20:38)

Good luck, dude.

Jason (20:39)

All right, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Host 2 (20:40)

See you, man.

Host 1 (20:42)

Listen, it's the Birch Show.

Host 2 (20:46)

Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro?

Host 3 (20:49)

Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America.

Host 2 (20:52)

I never look so good.

Jason (20:53)

You look the same.

Host 3 (20:54)

But with this camera, everything looks better, especially me.

Host 2 (20:57)

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies check please with Verizon.

Adam (21:02)

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro, designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever, plus a new iPad and Apple One. No trade in needed. Offer ends November 5th with a new line on Unlimited Ultimate Best 5G Tours. Route Metrics Data United States 2020 25. All rights reserved. Additional terms apply for all offers. See verizon.com for details.

Host 1 (21:17)

Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters Most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people@servicenow.com the holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US Based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less Holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com SpecialOffer terms apply.