Vault: Nice Guy vs Too Nice Guy

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Bert Show

Episode: Vault: Nice Guy vs Too Nice Guy

Date: June 5, 2026
Participants: Bert (Host), Wendy, Joanna, Bretzky, Latte, Lisa, Callers/Guests

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Overview

This episode dives into the classic dating debate: “Nice Guy” versus “Too Nice Guy.” The Bert Show crew—joined by guests and callers—breaks down what makes someone genuinely nice versus being so eager-to-please that it sabotages attraction. Through stories, humor, and a candid article by Blaine Batchelor, the cast explores confidence, boundaries, the impact of physical attraction, and whether age changes what we value in a partner.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why “Too Nice” Can Backfire

• Initial Story (00:58): Wendy recounts breaking up with a “too nice” guy—not because he wasn’t attractive, but because he was "too much, too fast, too available." She found the predictability and lack of mystery off-putting.
• Wendy (01:48):

  "It was just too much, like too fast, too available and not anything to look forward to besides the same thing."

• The group agrees that over-eagerness and lack of confidence can lead to a loss of attraction.

2. Role of Physical Attraction

• Host & Wendy (01:24 - 02:56): There’s a double standard—if the "too nice" gestures come from someone the woman is attracted to, it’s endearing. If not, it feels like overkill, or even creepy.
• Joanna (02:39):

  “Now had he been so so or mediocre, I don’t think I would have thought that was as sweet.”

3. Defining Truly Nice Guy vs. Too Nice Guy (Article by Blaine Batchelor)

• Host (03:12 - 04:44):
  Breaks down the difference:
  • The truly nice guy: self-respect, confidence, genuine respect for all, shares a rich life.
  • The too nice guy: people-pleaser at his own expense, insecure, lacks boundaries.
  • Quote (03:28):

    "The truly nice guy treats everyone... and most importantly himself with respect... The too nice guy... is always eager to please, even at the sake of his own needs or bank account."

• Wendy (04:15):

  "Confidence is a pretty big key... Uber eagerness and too nice of a guy definitely goes hand in hand."

4. Emotional Responses & “Martyrdom”

• Badge of Martyrdom (04:48 - 05:17):
  Too nice guys might victimize themselves when rejected—claiming women only like “bad boys.”
  • Host (05:02):

    “Truly nice guys don’t feel the need to advertise their outstanding character. Too nice guys wear their nice guy title as a badge of martyrdom.”

5. Differentiating Appreciation from Worship

• Host & Wendy (05:21 - 05:40):
  • A truly nice guy appreciates a partner; the too nice guy “worships” them, putting them on a pedestal.
  • Wendy (05:37):

    "Say it again."
    "Truly nice guys appreciate the objects of their desire. And too nice guys worship them too much." (Host, 05:32)

6. Authenticity vs. Attempted “Bad Boys”

• Host (05:40 - 06:21):
  Too nice guys may pretend to be “bad boys” in frustration, but lack the authenticity and boundaries of genuine confidence.
  • Caller/Guest (06:21):

    "...the real nice guy, it's just a genuine niceness... they would never think about flipping it because that's just who they are."

7. Power Dynamics & Healthy Boundaries

• Host & Wendy (06:32 - 06:50):
  • Too nice guys are often subconsciously seeking someone to control them; truly nice guys seek mutual respect.
  • Wendy (06:50):

    “I could see that because of insecurity, maybe, and lack of confidence. So a woman can easily, like, more easily control them than they can her.”

  • Caller/Guest (07:01):

    “They're looking for somebody to tell them what to do.”

8. Insecurity vs. Self-Assuredness

• Host (07:32 - 08:09):
  Too nice guys are insecure; truly nice guys are fundamentally happy with themselves. This impacts how they treat everyone, not just romantic interests.
  • Caller/Guest (07:38):

    “If you're too nice, you're insecure, and you're overdoing these things to sort of make up for your insecurity.”

9. The “Friend Zone” & Self-Fulfilling Prophecy

• Host (08:09 - 08:42):
  The “woe is me” attitude of too nice guys leads them to the friend zone.
  • Host (08:26):

    “Truly nice guys never finish last. Two nice guys who endlessly mope and whine ... always lose.”

  • Caller/Guest (08:35):

    “They think, oh, I'm always in the friend zone. Oh, I never get the girl that I want. Well, guess what? That's what you put out there. That's what you get back.”

10. Age and Maturity in What We Seek

• Host & Lisa (08:42 - 12:30):
  • The crew debates whether appreciation for genuine niceness grows with age and life experience.
  • Lisa shares her story: in her 20s, women weren’t interested in her now-husband because he was “too nice.” After age 28-29, this changed completely.
  • Lisa (12:10):

    “He’s a truly, truly nice guy. But he even has told me when he was in his 20s, women didn’t want to date him for very long because he was too nice. But then once he started hitting like 28, 29, he said it totally changed.”

  • Host (12:15):

    “If you would have met him when you were 22 years old—”

  • Lisa (12:15):

    “No... I probably wouldn’t have gone out with him.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Host (04:44):

  "So the two nice guys basically saying: this isn't on me, I'm such a nice guy. This is on insecure women because they're not ready for a guy like me. Whereas the truly nice guy is just nice to everybody all the time. And he's not acting. That's what he really is."

• Wendy (06:50):

  "I could see that because of insecurity, maybe, and lack of confidence. So a woman can easily, like, more easily control them than they can her."

• Joanna (09:32):

  "At first I was like, God, he's just so nice. I don't know if I deserve this. You know, he's just so sweet. And then you have to just let yourself, like, let him treat you, because you do deserve it."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & episode theme: 00:58
• Wendy on the “too nice” boyfriend: 01:02–01:48
• Physical attraction changes perception: 01:48–02:56
• Defining nice vs too nice (Batchelor article): 03:12–04:44
• Badge of martyrdom / insecurity: 04:48–05:17
• Appreciation vs. worship: 05:21–05:40
• Nice guy authenticity: 05:40–06:21
• Power dynamics/control: 06:32–06:50
• Real-life “too nice guy” story (Latte): 10:14–11:10
• Age/maturity discussion (Lisa): 11:49–12:47

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, relatable, and humorous
• Honest, sometimes self-deprecating, but always aiming to dig deeper than stereotypes
• Open to multiple viewpoints, integrating personal experiences of hosts and callers

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Conclusion

The Bert Show’s “Nice Guy vs Too Nice Guy” episode gives listeners a candid, often funny, sometimes sobering look at what draws people to each other, what pushes them away, and how the line between “nice” and “too nice” is drawn not only by actions but by self-respect, boundaries, and confidence. While women and men grow out of certain dating patterns with age, the core truth remains: authentic kindness, paired with self-assurance and respect—for others and oneself—is always attractive. The “too nice guy” might finish last not because women don’t want nice partners, but because desperation and lack of boundaries are never as compelling as genuine confidence.

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Transcript

[Host]

What's up everybody?

[Bretzky]

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[Host]

So when he revealed to us yesterday she was dating this nice guy, she sort of dumped him because he was too nice.

[Wendy]

Yeah, I mean, too nice in the way, like pushover nice. Like anything I said that I wanted, I. I could have. If I said I wanted to go to this game, he would get us tickets just out of random, which is really nice. But sometimes you just don't want to see someone's full deck of cards. You want to kind of have the game and some sort of mystery and something to figure out. Because I think when you learn too much too fast, the there's just nothing to look forward to.

[Host]

And I think Jeff and I determined yesterday that the too nice guy that Wendy dumped she probably wasn't physically attracted to because the conversation is very different. If he's totally hot and he goes out and he gets you tickets to a game that you, you barely even mentioned to him, and he's really hot and you're attracted to him. All of a sudden he's this hot, sweet guy, but since you're not physically attracted to him, he's sort of too nice.

[Wendy]

No, he was definitely a cute guy and we had fun when we went, but I mean, it's just. It was just too much, like too fast, too available. Too available and not anything to look forward to besides the same thing. The same thing, the same thing.

[Bretzky]

Unless he looked like the situation from Jersey Shore. Then you're like, well, I look forward

[Host]

to his abs right now. Joanna, you're not. Fiance is a really nice guy.

[Joanna]

Jason is a typical, very nice guy. And actually, it's funny that you mentioned that because when we first started dating we went out with. Well, when I first met him, I was with a good friend of mine and she happened to mention that her favorite band at the time or her favorite music artist was Feist. And this was when Feist was really big. On our very first date, Jason says that he bought me and my friend and him tickets to go see Feist very first date. That's awesome. On our very first date. And he. Because he heard it in conversation. Well, I couldn't go because I already had plans. But because Jason's a good looking guy, I was like, this guy is so sweet. Now had he been so so or mediocre, I don't think I would have thought that was as sweet.

[Host]

It's a little creepy then. If you're not as attracted and he's that aggressive about it, then it's a little creepy.

[Joanna]

Yeah, I hate, I hate to say that, but I think it's true.

[Host]

I think it is too, man.

[Wendy]

Everything was great. I went on the first date and it was amazing and over the top, which was awesome. And I had a good time and I gave him another chance and another chance and another chance and it just became overwhelmingly too much.

[Host]

Alright, so let's assume that you're going out with a guy that's a fairly decent guy and you're attracted to him. This is probably for guys more than it is for women here, because here's the definition. Okay? And Blaine Batchelor did a great job on this article. I think this is from a couple of years ago in Sunday Paper and she defines what a truly nice guy is from a guy that's too nice. All right, okay. The truly nice guy treats everyone, his parents, the waiter, the woman he dates, and most importantly himself with respect. He radiates confidence. He leads a rich, satisfying life and is eager to share it with his romantic interest. As a result, he attracts similarly stable, confident women and sustains healthy, fulfilling relationships. By contrast, the too nice guy, like the aforementioned, simply treats everyone all the time to drinks, dinners, you name it. Because he's always eager to please. Even at the sake of his own needs or bank account. He oozes insecurity. He might have a life, but more often than not he needs to get one. As a result, he never attracts stable, confident women for the long term and chalks up his failed relationships to women's skewed mentalities.

[Wendy]

Yeah, I could definitely see that. I mean, confidence is a pretty big key when that and I think uber eagerness and too nice of a guy Definitely goes hand in hand.

[Host]

So the two nice guys basically saying, this isn't on me, I'm such a nice guy. This is on insecure women because they're not ready for a guy like me. Whereas the truly nice guy is just nice to everybody all the time. And he's not going out of his way, he's not acting. That's what he really is.

[Joanna]

Right. Because he's just truly a nice guy.

[Latte]

Mm.

[Host]

Here are some more characteristics of the truly nice guy versus the too nice guy. Truly nice guys don't feel the need to advertise their outstanding character. Two nice guys wear their nice guy title as a badge of martyrdom.

[Caller/Guest]

How do they do that? Then? I wonder what's an example of wearing

[Host]

it as a badge, as martyrdom? So when the woman isn't attracted to them, they wear it like, I'm such a nice guy. That's why women won't date me.

[Caller/Guest]

I think you're right.

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[Bretzky]

They all think I'm their brother.

[Host]

Right?

[Bretzky]

Right.

[Caller/Guest]

I'm always in the friend zone.

[Bretzky]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Truly nice guys appreciate the objects of their desire too. Nice guys worship them.

[Caller/Guest]

Oh yeah, that is a big difference.

[Wendy]

Say it again.

[Host]

Truly nice guys appreciate the objects of their desire. And two nice guys worship them too much.

[Bretzky]

The object of desire being the woman.

[Host]

Right. Truly nice guys never pretend to be someone they're not just for the sake of getting the girl. By contrast, two nice guys, when they're frustrated about their lack of romantic success, threaten to become a bad boy and treat women like rubbish in hopes of changing their fortunes. Rubbish. The first American woman ever actually to use that word,

[Latte]

rubbish.

[Host]

You know what she's trying to say there?

[Wendy]

Yeah, I don't even. But I don't even think like uber nice guys are capable of being anything bad because they just want to please all the time and that's all they do. So I don't know if they're like,

[Host]

you can't even act like it cuz it's such a foreign concept.

[Wendy]

You can try, but I don't think it truly comes off as a bad boy.

[Caller/Guest]

And I think what she's saying there too is two nice guys, maybe it's not being genuine and they want to just flip it, you know, but the real nice guy, it's just a genuine niceness. And they, they would never think about flipping it because that's just who they are.

[Host]

And to a point where he won't get walked on. Where the two nice guy gets walked on all the time and then gets frustrated with it. Right. A truly nice guy looks for a woman who will respect him subconsciously or not. Too nice guy looks for a woman who will control him.

[Caller/Guest]

Oh.

[Wendy]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Bretzky]

Why is that?

[Wendy]

I could see that because of insecurity, maybe, and lack of confidence. So a woman can easily, like, easily more easily control them than they can her.

[Caller/Guest]

They're looking for somebody to tell them what to do.

[Latte]

Right.

[Host]

Truly nice guys never waste their time chasing mindless arm candy catchers. Two nice guys, however, shower them with drinks, dinners, and diamonds, only to watch these predators slink away to their next two nice guy target when they're restless and ready for another ego stroke or free ride. Which is a little bit what you saw with the ticket dude.

[Wendy]

Yeah. I mean, anything you want. They're easy to please. I mean, that's about it.

[Joanna]

He wants to buy your love.

[Caller/Guest]

Mm.

[Bretzky]

On the wings of love, the two

[Host]

of us, truly nice guys are fundamentally happy with themselves. Two nice guys are fundamentally insecure.

[Caller/Guest]

I would agree with that because it is. It's a fundamental difference. I mean, I think that if you're too nice, you're insecure, and you're overdoing these things to sort of make up for your insecurity. If you're truly nice, then it's just who you are. It's just genuinely who you are. And you're gonna be that way to the co worker in the office. You're gonna be that way to, you know, the people that are your next door neighbors, and you're gonna be that way to the people that you date.

[Joanna]

Right. And that's what she was saying, just

[Caller/Guest]

to the girls that you date and then you treat other people differently.

[Joanna]

Does that make sense?

[Host]

Yep. And truly nice guys never finish last. Two nice guys who endlessly mope and whine about never getting the girls include the scores of available truly nice ones who are also out there in the dating race. Always lose.

[Caller/Guest]

Come again? One more time.

[Wendy]

Again.

[Host]

Basically saying that the truly nice guy never finished last and the two nice guys always finish last because they sort of just trying too hard taps into that insecurity again. Right.

[Caller/Guest]

They think, oh, I'm always in the friend zone. Oh, I never get the girl that I want. Well, guess what? That's what you put out there. That's what you get back.

[Bretzky]

Right.

[Host]

Is this an age thing too? Like, if you're in your 20s and you're still sort of part of the new dating scene, does this apply more to that scene than it would like if you're in your late 30s? Because at that point, aren't you done playing more games than you would be in your 20s? And you're, like, ready just for a genuine, nice guy. I've been screwed around on my whole life. I've dated tools. I got a whole toolbox of tools, like Wendy said yesterday. And now you're just ready for some guy that's authentic and just nice.

[Wendy]

Maybe. I mean, I guess as you get older, you want someone genuine. But I think guys still try hard now to be that way, to be just nice and not overly nice. But I don't. I don't know.

[Caller/Guest]

I think there is a difference in what you're looking for, depending on your age. Yeah.

[Joanna]

Then also men and women.

[Wendy]

I guess it depends on the person, too.

[Joanna]

I mean, I would like to think that I was. Jason just kind of happened. I wasn't really looking or not looking. And then, I'm not gonna lie, it did take me a little while to, like. At first I was like, God, he's just so nice. I don't know if I deserve this. You know, he's just so sweet. And then you have to just let yourself, like, let him treat you, because you do deserve it. But you need to figure out if this guy is genuinely nice or if he's trying too hard to.

[Bretzky]

Do you think your next boyfriend will. It'll be easier for him to win your love.

[Joanna]

I'm gonna ignore him.

[Host]

Good morning. Q100.

[Latte]

Good morning.

[Host]

Hi. I'm avoiding trying to pronounce your name.

[Latte]

Latte.

[Host]

Yes. Latte. How are you?

[Latte]

I'm good.

[Host]

What's up?

[Latte]

Well, I have a comment about the too nice guy versus the. The truly nice guy. Okay, well, okay. I've had both. Like, I've never been attracted to the bad boys. That's just not my thing. I don't like games. I don't like lying. I can't do that. So. But, like, I'm. I like nice guys. But, like, I had a 2 nice guy that we were together for, like, two years, broke up. He just don't want to be friends. And he wanted to. He begged me to get back with him up until, like, two months ago, you know, three years later. And he would tell me, oh, I'll change myself for you. I'll do this, I'll do that. You know, I'll buy you this. And matter of fact, like, we lived on different coasts. He lived in Washington state. I live in Atlanta now. He was like, I'll come down to Atlanta and all this. And I was like, I try to explain him you need someone who's going to compliment you, not someone who you're going to change for. It was just too much, too available.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, you're like, have a backbone, dude.

[Wendy]

That's that confidence.

[Caller/Guest]

Show a little self respect.

[Host]

Do you guys remember the email that we were. We got months and months and months ago, and it was from a guy that was confused in his marriage because his wife was basically daring him to go out and cheat on her?

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah, I do remember, kind of.

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[Host]

And she was basically saying he couldn't do it. She gave him like 24 hours. She's like, I dare you. Go out, have an affair. Go, go, go.

[Bretzky]

He had one weekend to do it.

[Host]

He had one weekend to do it.

[Bretzky]

Right.

[Host]

And it's the same type situation. I think he's shown no backbone his entire life. She's finally like, show me a little something, something. Cheat on me, man. Go and cheat on me.

[Caller/Guest]

That was bizarre.

[Wendy]

Anything?

[Host]

All right, last call. Hey, Lisa, good morning. You're on the Burt Show.

[Lisa]

Hey, I think you hit the nail on the head when you were talking about age. Because my husband, we started dating when we were like 30, 31. And he's a truly, truly nice guy. But he even has told me when he was in his 20s, women didn't want to date him for very long because he was too nice. But then once he started hitting like 28, 29, he said it totally changed.

[Host]

Let me ask you this. If you would have met him when you were 22 years old.

[Lisa]

No, we had that talk, too. I dated a guy in my 20s that was a complete jerk. I probably wouldn't have appreciated my husband as much. So, yeah, I probably wouldn't have gone out with him.

[Host]

So it's probably.

[Lisa]

I mean, I might have once or twice, but.

[Host]

And then dumped him. And you would have lost out on your future husband.

[Lisa]

I know, I know. But when you're 21, 22, you don't really think about that. Well, I still want to go party and have fun and all that.

[Wendy]

And I still think at 24, I do want a truly nice guy. But I don't want somebody I can run all over either. I don't want somebody I can take advantage of. I want someone to stick up for themselves.

[Host]

Dude with some backbone. This is the.

[Wendy]

Hey, everybody, lady luck here.

[Joanna]

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[Bretzky]

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