Vault: She Called Him "Mahogany!" Was It Racist?

Summary

The Bert Show: Vault: She Called Him "Mahogany!" Was It Racist?

Date: June 12, 2026
Episode Theme:
This episode centers on a listener story about a Black man being referred to as a "mahogany gentleman" by an older white woman. The show uses this story as a lens to explore the awkwardness, confusion, and generational differences around language used to describe race, with the cast reflecting humorously but thoughtfully on what's appropriate, what’s offensive, and how intentions and context matter in these conversations.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

The "Mahogany" Incident – Story Setup

• [01:31] Monica: Introduces intern Brandon, whose brother was called a "mahogany gentleman" by a customer.
• [01:54] Burt: Describes the scene—Brandon’s brother, working in a less diverse part of town, helps an elderly white woman at Staples. She later refers to him as a "mahogany gentleman."
• [02:38] Jen: Points out at least the lady called him a "gentleman."
• [02:44] Burt & Monica: They try to gauge the intent and age of the woman, noting it came across as an old-fashioned (albeit odd) attempt at a compliment.

Generational Language & Racial Descriptions

• [03:02] Carl: Shares that people often struggle with how to reference his skin color, noting white people's hesitancy and confusion about the "right" term—African American, Black, colored, etc.

• [03:19] Carl: "Say mahogany. I would have taken that. She’s trying to…"

• [03:24] Reshma: Jumps in, suggesting that older generations are often struggling to unlearn outdated and offensive terms, sometimes grabbing for a "polite" alternative.

  Reshma [03:25]: "It’s our grandparents’ generation that, you know, would be using the N word as if it was, you know, right off their tongue. So then you’re trying to teach everybody what to say that’s more correct."

• [03:43] Jeff: Relays that his own grandmother still used "colored" for all Black people, and that past a certain age, no one bothers to correct them anymore.

  Jeff [03:53]: "I think when they reach a certain age, nobody bothers to correct them… with her generation, that's what it was."

• [04:03] Monica: Jokes that people may believe "mahogany" is a kind of politically correct graduation from older slurs.

Comparing Offenses: "Mahogany", "Boy", and the N-Word

• [04:46] Carl: Laughs about how he’d tell his spouse if he was ever called "mahogany," saying they’d find it funny, but ultimately prefers either "Black" or "African American."

• [05:00] Burt: Shares a personal anecdote about an older white man calling him "boy" in a retail setting—acknowledges it's offensive, but not as loaded as the N-word.

  Burt [05:00]: "A cop calls you boy… you can call me whatever you want, just don’t shoot me. But it’s like, when it goes to that point, then it’s offensive. But… it’s less offensive than being called the N-word."

  Carl [06:15]: "There’s nothing worse than the N-word for me. I mean, hands down."

• [05:52] Burt: Explains that the N-word is at least "upfront about its hate," while terms like "boy" or "colored" may be passive-aggressive or rooted in confusing attempts to be polite.

  Burt [06:25]: "At least when you get called the N-word, you know there's hate behind it. I can deal with somebody being upfront…"

Confusion Among White People about the "Right" Term

• [08:42] Monica: Explains that many white people are deeply confused and anxious about what word to use, fearing offense no matter the choice.

  Monica [08:42]: "Seriously, like, white people are confused. And I think white people want to be so sensitive about it that they’re not exactly sure what to use."

• [09:08] Burt: Doesn’t identify as "African American" himself due to his family’s more specific background (Haitian American), and notes it’s odd to automatically default to African American as a label.

  Burt [09:08]: "I don’t go around calling white people European Americans." Jen [09:13]: "Right."

Majority Status and What’s Offensive

• [09:34] Carl: Asks the white cast members if they're ever offended by being called "white" or "cracker."

• [09:45] Monica: Says such jokes don’t bother her, and the group riffs on jokes about being called "cracker."

• [10:01] Jen: Points out that being in the majority makes such jokes less likely to sting.

  Jen [10:01]: "When you're in the majority…the jokes are less offensive… because you are just in the majority."

Identity and Description: Focusing on Color or Other Traits

• [10:23] Monica: Notes the frustration some Black people feel over being called "black" when their skin is brown.

• [10:32] Carl: Acknowledges that there’s genuine confusion, but prefers "Black" and is okay with "African American."

  Carl [10:53]: "No, I prefer black. I can understand you referring to me as African American."

• [11:10] Jen: Suggests using non-racial identifiers (shirt color, hair) when describing people, especially to children, to avoid normalizing race as the primary defining trait.

  Jen [11:10]: "…it’s best to identify people by the color shirt they’re wearing…not as the first identifying factor." Reshma [11:33]: "Because that's how you describe a white girl…" Monica [11:48]: Argues that, in reality, people default to the most "glaring characteristic" anyway, whether it’s height, race, or something else.

Final Takeaways and Lighthearted Moments

• [11:00] Burt: Asks where "mahogany" ranks for Carl; the group riffs on types of wood as shades for people.
• [11:48] Monica, Jen, Reshma: Discuss the practicality and idealism behind how we identify and reference people in diverse contexts.
• [12:44] Jeff: Brings up the situational nature of racial descriptors—whether one says "the black guy" or "the white girl" depends on group composition and the need for clarity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Carl [03:19]: "Say mahogany. I would have taken that. She’s trying to—she’s trying to."
• Reshma [03:25]: "It’s our grandparents’ generation that, you know, would be using the N word… so then you’re trying to teach everybody what to say that’s more correct."
• Burt [05:00]: "A cop calls you boy... you can call me whatever you want, just don't shoot me."
• Carl [06:15]: "There’s nothing worse than the N-word for me. I mean, hands down."
• Burt [09:08]: "I don’t go around calling white people European Americans."
• Jen [10:01]: "When you're in the majority… the jokes are less offensive… it doesn't hurt you, because you're just in the majority."
• Jen [11:10]: "I try my best not to use [skin color] as the first identifying factor because… then it’s like your skin color doesn’t—it doesn’t matter what your skin color is."
• Carl [10:53]: "No, I prefer black. I can understand you referring to me as African American."
• Burt [11:00]: "Where's mahogany rank in there for you?... Going with mahogany."
• Jeff [11:07]: "Mahogany American."

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Key Takeaways

• Intent vs. Impact: The show highlights the awkward reality that terms intended to be polite or descriptive (like "mahogany") can feel condescending or weird, but intent and generational context often soften the impact.
• Language Evolves, and There’s Real Confusion: Especially among older generations, uncertainty remains about which terms are respectful, with "African American," "Black," and even "mahogany" thrown around as people try to avoid giving offense.
• Majority-Minus Privilege: The cast notes that being in the majority (as white people in America) changes how racial language is received—there’s less harm felt from "cracker" or "breeder" jokes.
• Practicality vs. Idealism: While many aspire to avoid mentioning race as a primary identifier, situations often require the most obvious descriptor, which is sometimes race.
• Humor as a Connector: The group uses humor and self-awareness to address the awkwardness of these conversations, showing that laughing about discomfort can sometimes be a way to broach difficult topics.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:31 – Introduction of the "mahogany gentleman" story
• 02:53-03:43 – Discussing generational confusion over racial terms
• 04:46-05:49 – Comparing being called "mahogany," "boy," and the N-word
• 06:15-06:25 – Carl’s stance: nothing is worse than the N-word
• 08:42-09:29 – Debate over "African American" versus "Black" identification
• 10:01 – Majority privilege and how it changes the impact of jokes
• 11:10-11:48 – How to describe people without relying on race
• 12:44-13:39 – Real-life examples of describing people by race in different contexts

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Summary

This episode of The Bert Show uses a bizarre real-life example—being called "mahogany"—to spark a lively, honest, and funny discussion on race, language, and old habits. Through personal stories, jokes, and candid admissions of confusion, the cast journeys through the tough landscape of what to call one another, how best intentions can misfire, and why the line between respect and offense is often generational and context-specific. The episode is lighthearted yet sincere, opening space for nuanced discussion on identity in everyday life.

Transcript

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[Monica]

The Birch show let's introduce you to intern Brandon. Brandon said at least for him there are worse things that you could call him than the N word. Yeah, and he was shocked by one. What, last week?

[Burt]

Yeah, last week it was actually my brother that got called this. I've been called similar.

[Jeff]

But what Todd is, Brandon is white. So that's what's really.

[Jen]

Don't confuse people, Jeff.

[Burt]

Well, my brother, he works at Staples and he's a computer repair man and it's in West Marietta, so it's not exactly the most diverse part of Cobb County. So he comes in one day and he was just like, you'll never believe what this old lady called me. And I he like whatever.

[Jen]

Oh, white lady.

[Burt]

Yeah. Oh, white lady. And he's like, I was helping her, helped her for about 20 minutes. She was buying computer and stuff. And then like her grandson came in and was talking to her. And the grandson was like, oh, did you find everything all right, grandma? And she was like, yeah, that nice mahogany boy. Mahogany gentleman. Mahogany gentleman. Help me over there. She called him a gentleman.

[Jen]

At least she called him a mahogany.

[Burt]

A mahogany gentleman.

[Jen]

And how old is this lady?

[Burt]

I. I would think she's pretty old. Be calling people mahogany.

[Monica]

What would you do if somebody calls you mahogany?

[Burt]

But you know what, though?

[Carl]

That, that's hilarious, man. Because I've been. I haven't been called like mahogany anything like that. But I've noticed people having a hard time trying to reference my color.

[Burt]

Yeah.

[Carl]

Like, you know, you know, Carl, the African, you know, the, you know, I'll

[Monica]

tell you straight up, white people are confused. Yeah. We've been confused for a long time about this is African American, Is it black? Is it colored? What is it? Yeah, you know, and no one wants to offend the ladies.

[Carl]

Say mahogany. I would have taken that. She's trying to. She's trying to.

[Jeff]

She's trying to be pride.

[Reshma]

She was.

[Burt]

Yeah.

[Reshma]

Especially the older you get because the older generations have had to, I mean, get out of bad habits because it's our grandparents generation that, you know, would be using the N word as if it was, you know, right off their tongue. So then you're trying to teach everybody what to say that's more correct. And I guarantee, yeah, that's the first thing that came to her mind.

[Jeff]

Trying to be. Or that's what she uses. And I think because my grandmother, before she passed away, she would. All black people were colored to her.

[Burt]

So.

[Jeff]

And I think when they reach a certain age, nobody bothers to correct them like I think they tried to in the past or whatever. And then it just doesn't happen because with her generation, that's what it was.

[Monica]

She thinks she's graduated to political correctness of mahogany.

[Burt]

The sad part was my brother actually had to look up what Shane. Mahogany was. I mean, it's kind of purplish, if I remember correctly. So I guess he's either really dark, he's purple or something like that.

[Jen]

It's typically a word you use to describe furniture in the living room.

[Burt]

Like you go to the Home Depot and you ask for like mahogany wood stain. Stain. Yeah.

[Jeff]

Well, I was given so many directions. A black woman, and she described me as that nice pine boy. So I think it's just a whole new generation of humans are now Shades of wood.

[Burt]

Well, Jeff, you're more maple.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Burt]

I mean, the thing is, just like

[Carl]

how we're laughing about it now. I promise you, as soon as I would have been called Mahogany, I would have turned around, called my wife. Hey, Chell, listen to this. I mean, we crack up about it just being so careful. Just call me black or African American.

[Burt]

Well, I had a guy.

[Jen]

This is all good.

[Burt]

Yeah. Well, I had a guy when I was working in retail. He was an older white guy working in Acworth. Not again. Not the most diverse part of any place in the world. He called me boy. And it wasn't like a cop. Like a cop calls you boy. And it's like, okay, you're a cop. You have a gun. You can call me whatever you want. Just don't shoot me. It was one of those. A boy come help me find this. And I was standing next to a white girl, and I looked at her and I was like, is he talking to me? Because I ain't his boy and his friend. I ain't his son or anything like that. So. And then, like, she was like, just calm. Just.

[Carl]

He.

[Burt]

He's old. It's okay. It's okay. So like, when it goes to like that point, then it's a. It's offensive. But it's, in my opinion, it's less offensive than being called the N word.

[Monica]

Boy is less offensive. I mean, we're splitting hairs here, right?

[Burt]

Not really. Because at least when you have the N word, you're upfront about it's hate.

[Jeff]

I think the N word has been throughout generations a negative word.

[Burt]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Whereas depending on how old this guy was, they're in the small town. Right. But it's not hate. It's might be what he grew up with. Whereas the N word has always been the N word. Hate filled.

[Carl]

When you start off this. When you started this off by saying that it was something worse than the N word. Like, I understand the confusion and all the. About being Mahogany and boy and all that, but there's nothing worse than the N word for me. I mean, hands down.

[Burt]

Well, one for me. I can't be like, as upset when somebody calls me N word because I feel that it loses its value. Especially in today's generation. The guys are walking around calling themselves N words in terms of endearment. Like, even. I'm not going to lie, I do it too. Like, you see your friend, you're like, what's up? N word. So it's like in an ideal situation, nobody should be able to use that word. Rather than some be able to use it in a nice way and some be able to use in a bad way. But at least when you get called the N word, you know there's hate behind it. I can deal with somebody being up. Up forward foremost and hate with me. I. Okay, we don't have to like each other. You call me and where that's. That's blatant hate police. But when somebody calls you colored, like, the stories that I used to hear from my. My mom and my grandmother growing up was when white people were trying to be politically correct and nice and upfront. Like, they like black people, they were calling them colored when behind their backs they were really hating. So rather. I'd rather you be upfront with me and call me the N word then. Trying to, like, try to make it seem that way.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Hide it behind a word.

[Jeff]

Like, unless they're. Unless they're older. And it's.

[Burt]

Then. Then it's just kind of funny if it's really old. And she's calling you Mahogany.

[Monica]

I mean, I.

[Jen]

It's fun.

[Monica]

What does that mean?

[Burt]

Do you.

[Monica]

Does that mean you like me or you don't like me? I can't tell.

[Jeff]

Creativity in the realm of furniture. Like, mahogany is a good solid. Yeah. So it's a compliment. She wasn't commenting on your color. You were a solid nightstand.

[Carl]

Call me Oak.

[Monica]

Hey, Monica.

[Burt]

Good Morning.

[Monica]

You're on Q100.

[Burt]

Hey.

[Monica]

Hey.

[Burt]

Love you guys.

[Reshma]

Thank you.

[Monica]

Loving you right now.

[Burt]

It's just so weird. I have a vanilla brother at work.

[Jeff]

Vanilla.

[Burt]

And I call him Vanilla. And I'm his chocolate sister. And then when my kids were little, my daughter, they're half Puerto Rican, we're half black. And she's always said she was beige. And it wasn't because she was taught that she just. As she learned colors, she said she was beige. So.

[Reshma]

Well, I remember when I was a kid and I had a Fat Albert coloring book, one of my favorites. And I remember asking my mom, like, well, if I'm. If they're black, then why am I using the brown? You know, Crayola to color his skin.

[Monica]

You know, I think that seriously, like, white people are confused. And I think white people want to be so sensitive about it that they're not exactly sure what to use. There almost needs to be like, a day where we're educated on this is the word to use from this day forward, because for a while, they're African American was the word that white people were supposed to refer to black people as. And then we took Some calls from people saying that they were offended by that word because I'm not from Africa.

[Burt]

Yeah, that's. That's my thing, is that I don't go around calling white people European Americans.

[Jen]

Right.

[Burt]

You know, it's been so many degrees of separation, so to say. Then I've been from Africa. Like, my mom wasn't from Africa. My dad was from Haiti. His parents are from Haiti. My mom's parents were from America. That's when it gets down to me. It's too many degrees of separation from me being Africa.

[Jen]

So, you know, you're more like French or Creole American.

[Burt]

Yeah, I'm Haitian American.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Carl]

And that's a good point. Do you all get it? Well, have you all ever been offended by being called white? No, because sometimes I kind of teeter on the fence. My Caucasian friend or my white friend. Seriously, though, I kind of.

[Monica]

There are very few things. I mean, as a white person, I mean, I got black friends that call me cracker jokingly. And that cracks me up.

[Burt]

Wow. I know that.

[Jeff]

Have you ever seen Bert walk in this morning? He's like, what's up, my cracker

[Burt]

brother?

[Jen]

Yeah. I think when you're in the majority of anything, the jokes are less offensive because it doesn't. Because it doesn't hurt you, because you're. You are just in the majority. It's the same with, like, straight people jokes. Like when gay people call us breeders, I'm like, okay, that's supposed to be offensive, but not. You know what I mean? So I think anytime you're in the majority, it's kind of deflected because of that, the innate nature of that.

[Monica]

And I've heard this also, that don't call me black because my skin is brown. You're calling me black, and that's offensive. Yeah.

[Reshma]

So that's why. That's why white people don't know what to say.

[Carl]

And I can understand. I can understand the sincerity of the confusion. Now, I don't. Those bogus ones out there, I'll be quiet. But the sincerity of ones that's confused, I can understand. So I would say a good point. This is me. I'm the black guy. Representative. Right. But African American is more, for me, more legitimate, I would say. I mean, don't get me wrong.

[Jen]

You prefer African American.

[Carl]

No, I prefer black. I can understand you referring to me as African American.

[Reshma]

So black's okay.

[Carl]

Yeah.

[Burt]

Where's mahogany Rank in there for you to be in mahogany. Going with mahogany.

[Jeff]

Mahogany American.

[Burt]

It's a new era, don't you think?

[Jen]

Also though, like with your kids and stuff, like, it's best to identify people by like the color shirt they're wearing or whatever it is, because I'll even try to do that myself. If I am, say I'm shopping and somebody's helped me out and it's a black girl that helped me, she was the sales girl. And then I go up to the counter and they say, has somebody been helping you? My first inclination, and I try to do it consciously is say the girl in the green shirt over there was the one who helped me.

[Reshma]

Because that's how you describe a white

[Jen]

girl, because that's exactly what you know. Or I would say, oh, she's the one with the pretty curly hair or whatever it is. I try my best not to use that as the first identifying factor because I think once we start doing that, then it's like your skin color doesn't. It doesn't matter what your skin color it is.

[Monica]

I agree with you, but I don't know that it's realistic. Like if, if people. You take out the glaring characteristic that separates you from somebody else. So if you're with a group of

[Jen]

white people, shouldn't be the glaring characteristic that separates you from somebody else.

[Reshma]

Why?

[Monica]

It's no offensive. It's not offensive to me. If somebody refers to me as the short guy, that's the glaring characteristic that separates me from most of my friends, which are taller guys.

[Carl]

And I understand what Jen is saying,

[Burt]

but I agree with you, Burt, no,

[Jeff]

around most of your friends, you're the white guy.

[Jen]

I feel like it's only with black people that I would typically be trained to do that. I would never say if Reshma, who's Indian, right, Indian of Indian, or something darker. I'm not sure.

[Reshma]

Somewhere between us and Carl.

[Jen]

But if I were out shopping and they said, who helped you? I would never say the Indian girl or the brown skinned girl over there. I would say the girl in the gray striped sweater.

[Jeff]

Let me ask you, you know what I'm saying?

[Jen]

But if it were Brandon that were helping me, I would have been conditioned to say, oh, the black guy over there helped me. So instead I would rather say the guy in the Yankees.

[Burt]

At least it's not mahogany.

[Jeff]

If you're in a store, you know what I'm saying?

[Burt]

I don't know.

[Carl]

Right.

[Jeff]

I know you got it. If you're in a store that's predominantly where it's staffed, but most of the employees are black and there's one white person working and the person said, who helped you Would you say the white girl over there?

[Jen]

I'd probably name the color of her hair.

[Monica]

I'd say the white girl.

[Jeff]

See, I would say the white. I would say whatever is the most identifying if I wouldn't identify the person. If I walked into a store and every employee was black, I wouldn't identify the person who helped me as the person as the black guy over there. But it's a way to describe if I'm in a store, it's 50, 50 employees. I would go the black guy with the Yankees cap and the blue shirt. And I certainly don't mean it offensively. I It's an easy way to identify something.

[Burt]

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