Vault: She Had A Tough Decision To Make. So Who Did She Fire?

Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Vault: She Had A Tough Decision To Make. So Who Did She Fire?
Podcast: The Bert Show
Date: March 20, 2026

In this emotionally charged episode, The Bert Show team revisits a dilemma faced by listener Molly, a manager compelled to lay off one of her two recently hired employees: a high-performing 23-year-old woman and a single mother of three struggling both personally and professionally. The hosts and live callers debate Molly’s ultimate choice, wrestling with questions of business ethics, compassion, and fairness.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Dilemma Recap & Background

• [01:36] Molly's Recap: Molly explains that she was asked to let go of one of two relatively new team members—either a “model employee” 23-year-old, or a single mom who is struggling with her work due to recent personal hardship (separation and impending divorce).

  • "One of them is a single mom. The bad news is she's really the weakest link... The other one is she's a 23 year old. The great news is she is really the model employee." — Molly [01:36]

• [02:16] Deeper Context: Hosts clarify both employees were hired at the same time, and that the struggling single mom had performance issues even prior to her personal crisis.

• [03:00] Listener Response: Listeners previously offered strong opinions, many believing personal circumstances shouldn’t influence such decisions, and that workplace fairness is paramount.

  • "Listeners are pretty harsh about it. Even single moms, really, that were keeping it together... were offended that someone would... cut them slack for being single mothers." — Host 2 [03:18]

Molly's Outcome and Reasoning

• [04:01] Molly Returns: Molly, using a voice disguiser, shares her decision and doubts.

  • "After the call last week, I felt pretty strongly... I knew what I had to do. And I was completely planning on firing the single mom..." — Molly [04:29]
  • Ultimately, she changed her mind at the last minute and fired the high-performing 23-year-old instead.

• [05:13] Her Explanation:

  • "It was just knowing the hardship that this woman was gonna go through." — Molly [05:13]

• She admits it conflicted with company interests, but says her empathy as a human being prevailed.

Hosts Push Back

• [05:25] Host 1 Critiques:

  • "So really what you did is you made your company more vulnerable... and that is because of you."

• [07:17] New Information: Molly reveals she herself is leaving the company soon, surprising the hosts.

  • "Wait, that's... You're taking off?" — Host 1 [07:20]

• [07:27] Host 1 doubles down:

  • "You left the company in a worse place and you're not even there to clean it up."

• [07:47] Molly responds: "What left the company in a worse place is if they had to fire someone, period. And that's the company's doing, not mine."

Caller and Listener Reactions

• [07:59] Katiso (Caller): Sides with Molly, emphasizing helping the single mom and dismissing the 23-year-old's need.

  • "She’s a single mom with three kids and the other chick... lives at home with her mom. So obviously she don’t need a job."

• [08:12] Caller 1 Counterpoint: Argues assumptions are being made about the 23-year-old's family situation, accusing Molly of age bias.

  • "This is a real age bias thing right here."

• [08:34] Shantae (Caller): A 23-year-old herself, she feels insulted, arguing it sends a terrible message to young professionals.

  • "What is she saying to all the 23, 24, 25 year olds... that no matter how good you do, if there's a single mom, you're the first to go?"

Insights on Ethics and Management

• [09:34] Host 1 speculates: Suggests Molly fired the 23-year-old possibly to prevent her from advancing into Molly’s soon-vacant position, which Molly denies.

  • "Is like as a little game of Survivor going on here."

• [09:46] Listener Email: Warns against special treatment based on family status, drawing parallels to historic discrimination.

  • "If you start giving single mom special treatment, you're going right back to the discrimination practices we've been trying so hard to eradicate..." — Email read by Host 3 [09:46]

Molly's Reflections and Final Thoughts

• [10:14] Molly's Honest Admission: She concedes, despite knowing it was not the best business decision, she chose empathy.

  • "I believe you me, I get that this was not the best business decision, but I'm sorry if I am a human being."

• [11:32] Will She Sleep Better?

  • "Yeah, I think that's why I made it."

• [11:35] Host 2 relates: Shares the burden of knowing children would be affected would keep her up at night, even knowing the other choice was “right” for the business.

• [11:52] Host 1 speculates: Molly’s departure made the compassionate choice easier.

• [12:17] Host 2:

  • "If the kids replace the kids with a disability... would it be the same business decision again?"

• Hosts debate the line between empathy and fairness in business decisions.

• [12:54] Host 3 affirming:

  • "It is just I truly believe that if you, you, it's your responsibility as the employee to make sure that you keep your job."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I felt pretty strongly that I knew what I had to do... and I was completely planning on firing the single mom... and then when push came to shove... I let the 23 year old go." — Molly [04:29-05:10]
• "We are small cogs in a very big picture and I was taking care of the small cog." — Molly [05:39]
• "You left the company in a worse place and you're not even there to clean it up." — Host 1 [07:27]
• "It's a real age bias thing right here." — Host 1 [08:30]
• "If you start giving single mom special treatment, you're going right back to the discrimination practices we've been trying so hard to eradicate over the past 50 years." — Listener email read by Host 3 [09:46]
• "I get that this was not the best business decision, but I'm sorry if I am a human being." — Molly [10:14]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:36] — Molly explains the setup and her two choices
• [03:00] — Host discussion on listener feedback from prior episode
• [04:01] — Molly returns to share what she did and why
• [05:13] — Molly's reasoning for firing the 23-year-old
• [07:17] — Revelation that Molly herself is leaving the company
• [07:59–09:02] — Heated calls from listeners and live debate about age bias, fairness, and ethics
• [09:46] — Critical listener email read aloud
• [10:14–11:35] — Molly’s final thoughts, hosts challenge and empathize with her choice
• [12:17–12:54] — Broader debate about empathy, performance, and responsibility in business

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Conclusion

This episode captures the emotional complexity and ethical minefield of real-world management decisions. Molly’s willingness to prioritize empathy over business metrics generated both strong support and sharp criticism from the hosts and listeners—sparking a rich debate about ageism, gender, fairness, and the human cost of layoffs. The result is a compelling look into the heart and head of modern workplace dilemmas.

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For further involvement or to share your perspective, listeners are encouraged to call The Bert Show or visit their website.

Transcript

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[Host 1]

what Molly told us on Thursday's show

[Molly]

last week I was told that I had to let go of one of my team. Basically someone who was hired in the last year. That left me with two options. One of them is a single mom. The bad news is she's really the weakest link in the team. She is by far the least qualified employee. The other one is she's a 23 year old. The great news is she is really the model employee and she will really be going far in the company. I'm sort of torn right down the middle.

[Host 1]

I don't really know what the debate was. So one is better for the company.

[Host 2]

Well, one of them is younger, 23 years old, lives with her mom, has a second job modeling and is really a stellar employee. Has been kicking butt for the company. They both were hired at the same time. Other employee is single mom of three, husband just left. She's had a really difficult year, going through a separation and I guess impending Divorce. And she's been kind of slacking in the workplace and wasn't necessarily the most stellar employee before that anyway. So she's going, if I let this woman go, that's her and her three kids that won't have an income.

[Host 1]

So the thing that I'm really hearing you hear. Hear you say also is that she wasn't a great employee before all this stuff started going down with her husband. She.

[Host 2]

I think that's what we got to the bottom of a little bit.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know?

[Host 3]

Yeah. She kind of said that she wasn't. She wasn't as good of an employee as this other woman, for sure, all the way around before, after all this happened. But we got a lot of feedback from listeners, and it was, like Jen said, cut and dry, where they felt like you. Your personal life and your personal responsibilities don't have any. Any bearing on the decision.

[Host 2]

Yeah, listeners are pretty harsh about it. Even single moms, really, that were keeping it together and doing a great job at work were offended that someone would, you know, almost cut them slack for being single mothers.

[Host 1]

He's got so many other people to think about in the office. Also, when you make a decision like that, if you make the worst business decision, you're affecting everybody else in the office. So while I understand the compassion about it, you got to. You got to. You got to worry about everybody.

[Host 2]

Well, and you have to worry about your own job, too. Like we said when we talked to her, you know, her managers are going to come down on her. If she keeps around the less qualified or less performing employee and things don't go well, they're going to blame it on her.

[Molly]

Right.

[Host 1]

We don't even know what Molly did, and here she is on the voice disguiser. Hey, Molly.

[Molly]

Hey.

[Host 1]

Hey. How are you?

[Molly]

I'm okay.

[Host 3]

Did you have to make the. Did you have to let somebody go?

[Molly]

Well, yeah, I did, and it was a really tough decision. And hearing some of the stuff I'm hearing now, you know, I'm. You know, I'm not sure I did the right thing.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Molly]

But. Well, the bottom line was after the call last week, I was like, I. I felt pretty strongly that I. I knew what I had to do.

[Host 2]

Mm.

[Molly]

And I was completely planning on firing the. The single mom.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Molly]

Less qualified employee, huh? Without a doubt. You know, that is. You know, that was the best thing for the company, and that is my job to serve the company. And I was putting it off, you know, till. I mean, I just. I just. I was really tormented by this choice.

[Host 2]

No kidding.

[Molly]

And I put it off to the very last minute. And then when push came to shove on Friday, I let the 23 year old go.

[Host 3]

What changed your mind at the last minute? What was it?

[Molly]

It was just, it was just knowing the heart. I mean, knowing that the hardship that this woman was gonna go through. Wow.

[Host 1]

So really what you did is you, you made your company more vulnerable on Friday. It's not as good a company today as it was on Friday, and that is because of you.

[Molly]

Well, I don't like to see it that way. I think, I think, you know, we are small cogs in a very big picture and I was taking care of the small cog. You know, I don't think, I don't think that this, if I thought this was going to change the whole company future in a dramatic way, that would have been another completely other decision. But this is a woman who is part of a team, you know, supervised by others. There are, you know, there are other teams. There are other people in those teams. I just, I, you know, I was really looking in the immediate future.

[Caller 1]

But you, but, but to go back to Thursday, you did say the 23 year old even had potential to move up in the company. So you did have a perspective on the broad picture, but you still let her go.

[Molly]

Well, I just also think that there's going to be, you know, an opportunity, you know, and I even said this, I even said this to the 23 year old. I said, look, you know, you know, when I had to let her go, which was rough, but. And she took it very well, which was great. She made that part easy for me, but she took it very well. And I said, you know, of course we think that, you know, she's been doing great work and, you know, it's just a sign of the times and that if anything changes economically, that she would be the first person we call back in. And I will, you know, as you know, I'm also leaving the company soon. So I will absolutely let the supervisor who's coming in, you know, let her, let her know, Wait, that's.

[Host 3]

We didn't know that you were leaving the company.

[Host 2]

That's new information.

[Host 1]

You're taking off.

[Molly]

Yeah, well, yeah, I'm not gonna be there for much longer.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Host 1]

You left the company in a worse place and you're not even there to clean it up.

[Molly]

I mean, I think it's a gross exaggeration to say I left the company in a worse place.

[Host 1]

You did.

[Host 3]

You said on Thursday that she was not as good of an employee.

[Host 1]

Now you Fired the better employee. Your company isn't as good today.

[Molly]

Now what left the company in a worse place is if they had to fire someone, period. And that's the company's doing, not mine.

[Host 1]

Oh, wow.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Host 1]

Here's somebody that thinks it was a good decision. Good morning. You're on Q100.

[Molly]

Good morning. This is Katiso. I really think you made the right decision because she's a single mom with three kids and the other chick, she lived at home with her mom. So obviously she don't need a job. She has a second modeling.

[Caller 1]

You don't know that. What? What about the 23 year old's family situation? Nobody knows her situation at home. Why she's living at home. Maybe she's living at home to help her mom.

[Molly]

No, she's not living at home to help her mom. She's living. You don't want to spend her own money to take care of her own self.

[Caller 1]

She's saving the money.

[Host 1]

This is a real age bias thing right here. Shantae, good morning. You're on Q100.

[Molly]

Good morning. Burn. Love you guys.

[Host 1]

Thank you for calling. What's up?

[Molly]

I am a 23 year old and I am highly upset and offended that she would make this decision. What is she saying to all the 23, 24, 25 year olds who's in corporate America that no matter how good you do, if there's a single mom, you're the first to go. And if she was leaving anyway, she should have left and kept both of them.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's a good point.

[Host 1]

What do you think about that, Molly? How do you respond to that?

[Molly]

Keeping both of them? If you were going to leave anyway, why fire either one of them? Leave now and keep both of them. But to fire the 23 year old is just what shouldn't have been an option level of position. It's a completely different level of position. Neither of. Neither of those women are qualified for my position. Apparently you aren't either. Because to make that decision was outrageous. It was. I don't think it was a smart management decision. And if she was 23 year old, if she was moving up in a company, she should have moved up into your spot.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I wonder if that had anything to do with the reason why you might have let her go. Is like as a little game of Survivor going on here.

[Molly]

I don't understand what you're talking about.

[Host 2]

Not if she's leaving anyway.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. Melissa got an email.

[Host 3]

Yeah, Bert Showlesser. Noah just sent this email. I Thought was really great. Says, you guys should remember that back in the day, males were given a higher salary than females and still do today due to the fact that the male was the head of the family while the female was working in addition to her husband, and thus did not need to earn as much. So, on that note, if you start giving single mom special treatment, you're going right back to the discrimination practices we've been trying so hard to eradicate over the past 50 years.

[Host 1]

That's a good email right there.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

After listening to all that, do you have any regrets at all? Do you still think you made the right decision?

[Molly]

You know, I'm hearing people, and I believe you me, I get that this was not the best business decision, but I'm sorry if I am a human being. Do you think I just. I went with my heart, and I. And, you know. And I get, you know, those guys out there calling me idiot or, you know, I get that. And they're. They're entitled, and that is fine. But I went with my heart. And meanwhile, it's not like I went with my heart on every decision I did in my job. I am a good manager. I'm a good supervisor. This may not have been the wisest choice. I get that. But, you know, this economic situation has put us in, you know, tough times and making tough decisions and sometimes.

[Host 1]

But you didn't make the tough decision. You didn't make the tough decision.

[Host 2]

She did, though. I mean, she made it in the best way that she thought to go.

[Host 1]

I mean, the tough decision to do

[Host 2]

it was a tough decision, which was

[Host 1]

what was right for the company.

[Host 2]

That's why it's a debate, and that's why people feel passionate about it. Because it is a difficult decision either way. I was gonna ask her, do you think you'll sleep better at night with this decision than the other one?

[Molly]

Well, yeah, I think that's why I made it.

[Host 2]

Because I think if I made the right business decision, knowing it was the right business decision, it would still keep me up at night knowing that there were three kids that weren't gonna be fed or weren't gonna have what they needed because of my business decision.

[Host 1]

I think it's also an easier decision for her to make. Cause she's not gonna be there. She's leaving.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that does add a different twist to it.

[Host 1]

So I think ethically, she could probably. Well, I don't even know. I think that could be argued also.

[Molly]

I think.

[Host 3]

You know that. I think. Because, again, I feel like you can't be black and white with business anymore. But I do believe in business streamlining it, meaning you agree to a job, to do a job and you are judged based on your performance in that job. And so I don't think it should end when a pink slip has to be given.

[Host 2]

Let me pose this question to you guys. If the kids replace the kids with a disability that held the person back from doing the job as well as the 23 year old, would it be the same business decision again?

[Host 1]

It's a brutal company decision, but I

[Host 3]

still think, I think you think you

[Host 1]

struggle with it, but I mean, you gotta do what's best for the company.

[Host 3]

And I think that we had single moms that came on last week and said, look, if you know that's your situation and you know you need to keep, keep this job, then when you're at that job, then you are the best employee at that job.

[Host 1]

Either way, I think y', all, it's

[Host 2]

a manager of the company business decision to you.

[Host 1]

It's not easy. It's certainly not easy.

[Host 3]

It is just I truly believe that if you, you, it's your responsibility as the employee to make sure that you keep your job.

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[Josh Spiegel]

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[Alex Kanchrowitz]

Hi, this is Alex Kanchrowitz. I'm the host of Big Technology Podcast, a longtime reporter and an on air contributor to cnbc. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology, I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech and outsiders trying to influence it, asking where this is all going. They come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon and plenty more. So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices, in meetings with your colleagues and at dinner parties, listen to Big Technology Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts.