Vault: Why Is She Refusing To Hire Single Women?

Summary

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The Bert Show: "Vault: She Refuses to Hire Single Women!"

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, the Bert Show team dives into a controversial workplace dilemma brought forward by a listener named Sheila. The conversation revolves around Sheila’s discomfort with a new female employee, who wore a fake engagement ring to her job interview to appear more “desirable” to employers. The deeper, more unsettling issue: Sheila’s admission that she feels uncomfortable having a single, attractive woman in her business—run alongside her husband. Ethics, legality, trust, and workplace discrimination become flashpoints as the host panel and callers weigh in, making for a heated, candid, and at times humorous debate.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Core Dilemma (01:04–04:04)

• Sheila’s Call-In: Sheila, speaking under voice disguise, describes running a small business with her husband. After hiring a woman who wore an engagement ring to her interview, Sheila discovered the new hire was actually single and had worn the ring only to increase her chances of being hired.

• Sheila’s Reaction: Sheila feels this is a form of dishonesty:
  “That’s representing yourself falsely. ...it makes me very uncomfortable.” (02:51–03:04)

• Nature of the Team: Sheila mentions her team consists of two married women and one lesbian, implying they create a balanced, safe work environment “dynamic.”

• Underlying Motivation: Sheila admits,
  “...it just makes me very uncomfortable that she's a single woman...I don't feel comfortable with her with this being mixed into the pot.” (03:39–04:04)

2. Lie or Strategy? Ethical Quandaries (04:10–08:23)

• Hosts’ Pushback: The hosts challenge Sheila on whether wearing an engagement ring constitutes a “lie” or simply strategy, exploring if social assumptions equate to personal misrepresentation.

• Cassie:
  “I have friends who have gotten jewelry from, like, their grandmothers...that only fits on that ring [finger]...” (03:04–03:16)

• Bert:
  “But I don’t think she lied to you. Unless she came out and said, 'Hi, I’m married,' and that would be a blatant lie...” (05:38–05:44)

• Kristin:
  “You know what happens when you assume—you end up looking like an idiot.” (05:51–05:55)

• Sheila doubles down in response to pushback:
  “She basically said, 'I wear this so that people will find me [a] more desirable employee...I’m representing myself falsely so that I’ll get a job.'” (05:55–06:09)

3. The Real Issue: Insecurity and Trust (06:12–09:59)

• Panel’s Probing: The hosts probe Sheila’s discomfort, shifting from “dishonesty” to her underlying anxiety about an attractive, single woman working closely with her husband.
• Sheila’s blunt admission:
  “It’s just a combination of the two things. That she lied during the interview and that…she’s an attractive single woman. I just don’t…am not comfortable with it.” (04:47–05:18)
• Host Tommy calls out the bias:
  “The problem is, is that you are not wanting single women around your husband. And what is the nature of your company?...Are you this insecure?” (09:23–09:54)
• Sheila acknowledges:
  “It’s mostly about me being insecure with someone around my husband. I would say it’s at least 50/50.” (09:59–10:09)

4. Legalities and Ethical Boundaries (10:13–13:44)

• Hosts research and explain:
  “I’m looking up the EEOC right now, because I don’t see how marital status is any different than race, gender...you can’t hire or fire people on those issues based on that. It’s illegal.” (10:15–10:56)

• Listener Calls:

  • Joe: Advises Sheila to check with the Department of Labor, expressing concern about misrepresentation but warns about legal repercussions. (08:38–09:23)
  • Jeff: States that marital status is a protected class and firing based on that would not be lawful. (11:41–12:26)

• Ethical Parallels:
  Hosts compare marital-status discrimination to firing someone over race, disability, or religion, underscoring absurdity via analogy.
  "What if she wore a cross around her neck...but then she started working for us...she's actually Islamic...I don't want one of those working for us. ...We would call you ridiculous." (12:45–13:07)

5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kristin (on legal standards):
  “Marital status is a protected entity...You cannot hire and fire somebody based on that. That is just asinine, to be honest.” (11:42–12:26)

• Sheila (on her true feelings):
  “If you were leaving right now and talking to your husband, would your first...instinct be to let her go or would it be to keep her in the office? ... I absolutely let her go.” (14:07–14:09)

• Cassie’s analogy:
  “But what Jen’s saying is: in the eyes of the law, it’s all on the same even playing field.” (11:31–11:35)

6. Conclusion: Final Thoughts

• No Resolution: Sheila remains unconvinced by legal and ethical arguments, reiterates her instinct to fire the employee, and agrees to check the law before proceeding.
• Hosts insist on a follow-up:
  “Sheila, we gotta run, but I would like to check back with you on Monday to see if you guys fired her or you kept her in the office.” (13:44–13:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:30 – Sheila joins the show on voice disguise
• 01:27 – Sheila explains the situation with the ‘engagement ring’
• 02:48 – Confrontation about the ring and the new hire’s honesty
• 03:38 – Sheila expresses discomfort about a single woman in the office
• 04:47 – Sheila admits no reason to doubt her husband, but is still uncomfortable
• 05:22 – Sheila admits new hire does her job fine
• 05:44 – Debate on whether the ring was a 'lie'
• 09:23 – Legal advice: protected classes and discrimination
• 12:26 – Strong legal advice from caller Jeff
• 13:44 – Agreement to follow up with Sheila next week

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Takeaways

This episode masterfully illustrates how personal insecurities, workplace expectations, and legal obligations can intertwine, creating challenging HR dilemmas. The hosts encourage introspection on biases and reinforce the necessity of adhering to legal protections in employment practices, all while balancing empathy and biting humor.

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For more information or to weigh in, listeners are advised to visit thebertshow.com or tune in for updates on Sheila’s decision.

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Transcript

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[D]

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[D]

The song.

[C]

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[E]

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[B]

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[C]

Kevin.

[B]

Hey.

[F]

Hey, Kevin.

[C]

Hey, Sheila. Good morning. You are on the voice disguiser. Hi.

[G]

Hi. How are you guys doing?

[C]

Goofy. It's Friday. How are you doing?

[G]

Sounds like you're having fun.

[C]

Now, I gotta tell you, at first, just at first, listen here, it sounds like you're being pretty insecure. You want to fire a girl because she's single.

[G]

No, no, no, no. It's not quite that simple.

[D]

Okay, okay, okay.

[G]

You know, my husband and I, we have a small business. We have just a few employees. We have three women. We have two married women and one lesbian who works for us.

[E]

Tough word to say.

[G]

It's a great group. I specify that just because of it's important.

[F]

Later on I'm getting it.

[G]

So we were interviewing for a new position, and this woman came in and she was wearing an engagement ring, and we ended up giving her a job. And then she's been, you know, working for us about two weeks, and I noticed that she wasn't wearing the ring anymore, you know, and I felt kind of bad. And I wasn't trying to be nosy or anything. That's what I said. I was like, you know, I'm not trying to be nosy, but I noticed that you're not wearing your ring anymore. And I'm sorry, did something happen? You know, I feel bad. And she's like, oh, no, I actually was never engaged. She just comes clean. She's like, I was never engaged. I always wear an engagement ring to job interviews because, you know, studies show that, like, engaged women and married women are more desirable employees.

[C]

So she straight up told you that?

[G]

Yeah. So I'm like, that's representing yourself. Falsely. I mean, that's just. I know she never said it out loud, but she was lying, you know, and that makes me very uncomfortable.

[D]

She wasn't necessarily lying. I mean, because I have friends who've gotten jewelry from, like, given down from their grandmothers or family jewelry that only fits on that ring, and. Yeah, that's very true.

[G]

That's true. But she specifically told me that she wore it so she'd be a more desirable employee. Now, it's the one thing. If you got a ring from her grandmother, and that's the only finger it fits on, you know, she was really honest. Did she? You know, and I do appreciate that, but we're two weeks in at this point, you know, And. And it just makes me.

[H]

First of all.

[G]

So that. That. That's, like, the main thing. It makes me very uncomfortable that she lied, you know, it's like lying on your resume or something, you know, and then it makes me very uncomfortable that she's a single woman. We have this nice little balance going on, you know, it's like me and my husband and all these women, you know, and I don't feel comfortable with her with this being mixed into the pot, basically.

[C]

Is this an agreement that you and your husband have made that you will not have single women in the office?

[G]

No, not at all. I mean, we've never. Honestly, we've never really talked about it. Well, now we're talking about it, of course, because he thinks I'm being insane, basically. He thinks I'm being ridiculous.

[H]

And

[G]

he actually said to me, now, this sounds like something from the Burt show.

[C]

And he said, great idea. I'll give him a call tomorrow.

[G]

Right? I know, I know. It sounds like something from the Burt Show. And I was like, yeah, well, why don't we call them? Because I bet that at least somebody's gonna be on my side on this.

[D]

Has your husband given you any reason to doubt him?

[G]

No, no, absolutely not. But why would I put him in that position? Why would I put him in that position? I just don't. I mean, obviously, you know, just because these other women are married doesn't mean that something couldn't happen anyway, you know? But I think it's just a combination of the two things. That she lied during the interview and that, you know, she's an attractive single woman. I just don't. I'm not comfortable with it.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

What kind of employee has she been over the past couple weeks?

[G]

Fine.

[C]

No problem.

[E]

Good. Like, would you consider her not in

[G]

the stratosphere, but perfectly adequate? I think I have grounds. Because. Because you know, of how she represented herself during the interview. Would you not agree?

[B]

But I don't think she lied to you. Unless she came out and said, hi, I'm married, and that would be a blatant lie. But she did not lie to you.

[C]

Well, she wore the ring.

[G]

I bet she lied. Basically, she said, I wear an engagement ring.

[B]

Well, she wears it.

[G]

But that's your assumption.

[E]

Yeah. You know what happens when you assume you end up looking like an idiot.

[G]

No, no, no, no. I know, but she said it. I mean, she said she's confessed. I wear this so that people will find me more desirable employee. I'm. You know, she basically said I'm represent myself. I'm representing myself falsely so that I'll get a job.

[D]

How attractive is this woman on a scale of one to ten?

[H]

I don't know.

[G]

Seven?

[C]

Seven for me.

[G]

Attractive? I am ten. No, I'm.

[C]

Is she. Is she hotter than you are?

[G]

No, she's not hotter than I am.

[C]

Is she younger than you are?

[G]

Yes, she is younger than I am.

[C]

Sarah, Good morning.

[I]

Good morning.

[C]

Good morning.

[I]

To me, it's a trust issue, too. How is she supposed to expect to trust a woman that lied about being married and then trust her around her husband?

[D]

She didn't lie. She just wore a ring.

[I]

Well, she. I mean, she was representing.

[J]

I mean,

[I]

people are going to assume if you have an engagement ring on that you are engaged. And she never denied it. She never denied it.

[C]

She did lie. I mean, she even told she did.

[I]

She's supposed to trust this woman around her husband or with a job, period. She lied. And if she's willing to do that,

[E]

that's not a lie. It's not a lie. If she had come out and asked you, which I think is illegal, or if you come out and asked her what her relationship status was and she said, I am single. That's a lie. You saw the ring and you assumed that that made her engaged.

[C]

But she even said afterwards that she purposely put that ring on to get hired as the person that was engaged.

[D]

Let me just throw this out there. What if she wore the engagement ring and then had it off two and said, oh, yeah, I'm a lesbian. I wear that because married women are more desirable to hire. And I didn't think that you would like lesbians. Would you consider her a liar and not trustworthy? Then she's just being smart and trying to get the job.

[E]

Or what if she said, yes, we broke up?

[G]

What if she said, yes, we broke up?

[E]

Then guess what? Then she really is a liar.

[G]

Right. But I wouldn't know that.

[E]

Right.

[C]

Just the confession.

[F]

I'm just.

[B]

I'm so confused.

[C]

The confession that's bothering her.

[F]

I'm not comfortable.

[E]

You mean her telling the truth?

[C]

I'm not comfortable after she lied.

[E]

She didn't lie.

[G]

She did.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

Such a fine line.

[F]

I mean, she.

[G]

That is a lie. What you know. Well, you think it's a gray area because. Yes. Was she engaged?

[E]

No.

[G]

No. Did she wear an engagement ring? Yes. Did she say I wore it purposely to get the job? Yes. Yeah.

[E]

Did you ask her why she engaged?

[G]

Did I ask her if she was

[B]

engaged during the interview?

[D]

Either way, it doesn't even matter. That shouldn't be a reason to hire or not hire somebody.

[C]

Here is Joe who agrees with Sheila. Good morning, Joe.

[H]

Good morning.

[C]

Hi.

[H]

First, don't ask the employee just yet. Don't ask her yet. Check with Department of Labor. Find out about laws on this. Basically, you got someone who misrepresented themselves going into an interview situation. And as a business owner, I have to say, well, if they'll misrepresent themselves to get in what they misrepresent themselves for.

[C]

So Sheila's security or insecurity is inconsequential to you. The fact that she lied and you define. You're defining this as a lie makes her in. She's not trustworthy.

[H]

Correct. But I would definitely check the Department of Labor first to find out, you know, what is. Is not legal reasons. Make sure that she's not about to get herself into bigger trouble, especially with today's economy, because people are looking for a reason to sue. Thank you.

[F]

Well, especially in today's economy, I got to say that you're naive as a business owner if you think that not everybody is exaggerating on their resume about their jobs. She was trying to do a tactic in order to get hired because she saw that that was more desirable thing. Like, I do think that you're being a little harsh about the. Oh, well, if they're going to lie about that, then they're going to not do a good job. I think that the problem is, is that you are not wanting single women around your husband. And what is the nature of your company? Like, I don't understand why that is such an issue. Like, are you this insecure?

[G]

I'm not going to go be specific about my company because I don't feel comfortable at that.

[F]

Well, I agree, but I'm just saying

[G]

that it's mostly about me being insecure with someone around my Husband. I would say it's at least 50. 50. I do not feel comfortable with someone who misrepresented themselves when they were interviewing. Because if you do that, that says something about your character.

[F]

It says that you want to get that job.

[D]

Yeah, I'm looking up the EEOC right now because I don't see how marital status is any different than RA gender, than, you know, than sexual preference. I don't understand why we aren't lumping all those things together in this conversation.

[C]

Well, you can't really misrepresent yourself as a white person in an interview.

[D]

Yeah, but you could misrepresent yourself as a straight person.

[F]

Well, the issue, though, is not that. The issue is that she didn't want a single woman around her husband.

[D]

But what I'm saying is you can't hire or fire people on those issues based on that. It's illegal.

[G]

Well, I.

[E]

Well, is that why you would fire her? Or would you come up with something else, like.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you're.

[E]

She walks in three minutes late today. Will you make that the issue?

[G]

No, of course not. Of course not. I would base it on what I really feel.

[D]

Or what about disability? What if she misrepresented herself and came in and walked that day, but most of the time she needs a cane, and it's. It's. Or she's. Or she's deteriorated and needs a wheelchair, and then all of a sudden, you and your husband are gonna have to spend a ton of money putting in a ramp. Like, I mean, we're talking about all of these things. Pregnancy.

[G]

Because that's someone who. That's the disenfranchised. That's somebody who's had a hard time because of a disability. That's.

[C]

But what Jen's saying is, in the eyes of the law, it's all on the same even playing field.

[H]

Right?

[E]

And your husband probably wouldn't go after a disabled woman.

[C]

Hey, Jeff. Good Morning. You're on Q100. Hi.

[J]

Hey, guys. Great show.

[C]

Thank you, sir.

[J]

Hey, this is pretty cut and dry here. And whoever it was that just read the law hit a right on the head. Marital status is a protected entity as far as also sex, race, all those. You cannot hire and fire somebody based on that. That is just asinine, to be honest. You know? And speaking, you know, there's a lot of things at work here. And the other thing is, even if she would have come out in the interview and told you, yes, I am married, that doesn't matter. Whatever she wrote down on her resume is what Matters. Whatever's in writing is what matters. She can say whatever she wants in the interview. That's not legal.

[C]

Have you heard, have you heard anything today, Sheila, that makes you think that you're. You're going to sway your decision that you will keep her in the office?

[G]

Well, I mean, obviously I don't want to get sued, but, you know, so obviously I will check into that, but other than that, no, I have not heard anything because.

[D]

Because you don't want to hear anything. Let me give you one other example. What if she wore a cross around her neck and you were like, well, she represented herself as a Christian, but then she started working for us for two weeks and she had, you know,

[E]

and she doesn't go to church.

[D]

She doesn't go to church. She's actually Islamic or she's Buddhist or whatever. And I don't want one of those working for us. I mean, we would. We would call you ridiculous.

[G]

That's ridiculous.

[D]

Of course it's ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as this marital status thing. But hear what she's saying. As ridiculous. Exactly the same thing.

[C]

Hear what she's saying, though in the eyes of the law, it all falls under the same category.

[D]

So as you're threatened because she's single, somebody else could feel threatened because she was Islamic.

[F]

But that's not her filter is her husband. That's the difference. In her mind, every argument you're giving is absolutely valid, but she's not listening to it because her filter is the religion. And everything else doesn't apply to my husband, but this single woman does apply to the threat to my husband.

[C]

Sheila, we got to run, but I would like to check back with you on Monday to see if you guys fired her or you kept her in the office.

[G]

Okay, that sounds fine with me.

[C]

If you were. You're leaving right now and you're talking to your husband, would your first. Would your instinct be to let her go, or would it be to keep her in the office? As of right now, 7:54,

[F]

you can be honest.

[G]

Oh, I. I absolutely let her go.

[C]

Let her go. Okay.

[E]

The bird show.