Vault: Usher Talks About Broadway

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Bert Show
Episode: Vault: Usher Talks About Broadway
Date: November 10, 2025
Host: The Bert Show Cast (Bert, Co-hosts)
Guest: Usher

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Episode Overview

This episode features a lively conversation with Usher, focusing on his debut on Broadway in "Chicago" as Billy Flynn. Usher shares candid insights into preparing for Broadway, addresses rumors, discusses the challenge of juggling music, acting, and personal ambitions, and provides a behind-the-scenes view into his evolving career. The tone is warm, humorous, and filled with mutual respect and entertainment industry banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Usher on Entering Broadway and Performance Preparation

• Fearlessness & Preparation:
  • Usher shares his nerves and excitement transitioning to Broadway, highlighting the unique demands of live theatre.

    "I can't say that there's no fear. I'm just anxious, I'd say, to get started, you know, it's been a lot of...a lot of rehearsal in preparation for it." – Usher [01:55]

  • He distinguishes the preparation for live performance from music videos and movies.

    "You have to search to make sure that you understand the character because you're acting live, man." – Usher [01:55]

• Method Acting:
  • The group discusses method acting with Usher elaborating on how some actors go deep into their roles.

    "Some people are method actors...they don't step outside of the character. It becomes a part of their personality." – Usher [02:41]

2. Integration into the Broadway World

• Proving Himself Among Theatre Veterans:
  • Usher admits feeling like the rookie surrounded by Broadway pros and feels he has something to prove.

    "Of course, I feel like I have something to prove to myself as well as the other people who have...conveyed trust in me playing this role." – Usher [03:29]

• Welcoming Company Culture:
  • He praises the professionalism and inclusivity of the cast.

    "They're totally professional and great professionals, really...they've been working with the company for at least, you know, a minimum of 10 years." – Usher [03:55]

3. On Career Evolution and Artistic Boundaries

• Natural Progression to Broadway:
  • Usher views Broadway as a natural next step from his work in music and acting.

    "As an artist, it will be a natural evolution to go from music to having a label...as an actor...it’s a natural evolution for me to someday go to Broadway." – Usher [04:59]

• Drawing the Line:
  • Lighthearted joking about career limits (explicitly avoiding adult films).

4. Broadway’s Demands and Sacrifices

• Schedule Intensity:
  • Performing eight shows a week is highlighted as a demanding schedule.

    "I'm playing eight shows a week...that's unheard of." – Usher [06:16]

• Family Support:
  • Usher credits his mother and family, who are traveling to see his Broadway debut.

    "My mother's always been...very supportive...a lot of it is due to her. She's my manager." – Usher [07:28]
    "I might take up the first 10 rows." (Referring to his family and friends in the theater) – Usher [08:10]

• Living in New York:
  • Usher is so busy with rehearsals he hasn’t experienced much of the city.

    "I've been so, so busy that I don't even get the opportunity to walk the streets." – Usher [06:11]

5. Rumors, Paparazzi, and Celebrity Culture

• Handling the Tabloids:
  • Usher expresses tolerance for paparazzi, citing it as part of the job, while emphasizing he tries to be courteous to fans.

    "As long as paparazzi is not disrespectful...when you sign up to become an entertainer, anonymity goes out the window." – Usher [09:32]

• Misinformation:
  • Usher debunks online rumors (such as turning down a Beyoncé video for Broadway).

    "No, that's not true. Where'd you hear that?" – Usher [08:59]

6. Personal Insights & Career Aspirations

• Legacy Goals:
  • Usher reveals ambitious plans for an EGOT (winning an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, and Tony).

    "I want a Grammy, Tony, Oscar, Emmy." – Usher [14:27]

• Personal Fulfillment:
  • He reflects on balancing career achievements with personal happiness.

    "Some people don’t find...happiness truly within themselves until later on in their life." – Usher [13:46]

• Missing Home:
  • When away, he misses Atlanta, especially his car, restaurants, and the familiar places.

    "Yeah, my Porsche GT." – Usher [16:11]
    "Lenox Mall, of course, or 6 Plaza." – Usher [16:23]

7. Future Projects

• Film & Label Updates:
  • Confirms talks about working with Denzel Washington and projects with Morgan Freeman in development.

    "Yes, there had been conversation about me being a part of a Denzel Washington film. And yes, I had been writing...with Morgan Freeman." – Usher [11:46]

  • Promotes his label's new group, One Chance, with upcoming music and a tour.

    "My label, I got One Chance...look out for One Chance later. The album be out a little bit later this year." – Usher [12:25]

  • Hints at a new album of his own:

    "My next album...I'm hoping by 2007." – Usher [13:18]

8. Memorable Banter & Good-natured Ribbing

• The conversation is peppered with friendly jabs, jokes about boundaries, and inside humor among host and guest.

  "I mean, you’re throwing it out there. That means you want to talk about it." – Bert [13:13]
  "Entertainment don't stop and it don't quit. The show must go on, man." – Usher [13:29]
  "I love you, Bert." – Usher [16:00]

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Notable Quotes (With Timestamps and Attribution)

• On facing fears and challenges:

  "I can't say that there's no fear. I'm just anxious, I'd say, to get started, you know, it's been a lot of...a lot of rehearsal in preparation for it."
  – Usher [01:55]

• On method acting:

  "Some people are method actors...they don't step outside of the character. It becomes a part of their personality."
  – Usher [02:41]

• On making the jump to Broadway:

  "As an artist, it will be a natural evolution to go from music to having a label...as an actor...it’s a natural evolution for me to someday go to Broadway."
  – Usher [04:59]

• On celebrity privacy and the press:

  "As long as paparazzi is not disrespectful...when you sign up to become an entertainer, anonymity goes out the window."
  – Usher [09:32]

• On career ambition:

  "I want a Grammy, Tony, Oscar, Emmy."
  – Usher [14:27]

• On maintaining well-being:

  "Some people don't find...happiness truly within themselves until later on in their life. I’ve learned to love myself enough to...be patient and, you know, eventually I'll make sure I get it right."
  – Usher [13:46]

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Timeline of Key Segments

• [01:05] – Conversation with Usher begins
• [01:55] – On preparing for Broadway and managing fear
• [02:41] – Method acting and seriousness of stage prep
• [03:29] – Usher reflects on being new to Broadway
• [06:16] – On the grueling schedule and physical demands
• [07:28] – Talking about family support and his mother as manager
• [09:32] – Discussion on paparazzi and celebrity culture
• [11:46] – Upcoming projects with Denzel Washington and Morgan Freeman
• [12:25] – Music updates: One Chance and future projects
• [13:18] – Hints at new album (timeline: 2007)
• [14:27] – Career ambition (EGOT)
• [16:11] – What Usher misses about Atlanta

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Tone & Style

The conversation is fast-paced, friendly, and playful, with moments of sincerity as Usher delves into career philosophy, the importance of family, and personal aspirations. The hosts' easy rapport with Usher allows for both genuine insights and comedic exchanges, reflecting the show’s goal of mixing real talk with humor.

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Takeaways

• Usher approaches every new artistic opportunity with intense preparation and respect, especially when joining established worlds like Broadway.
• Fame brings both privilege and loss of privacy, which Usher acknowledges but manages with grace.
• He is strategic about his career, continually evolving, and is driven by ambitious, multi-award-winning goals.
• Personal fulfillment, family support, and roots in Atlanta remain important anchors amid his busy career.
• Listeners are left feeling both entertained and inspired by Usher’s candor and charisma.

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For more on Usher's Broadway debut and future projects, check out the episode links and stay tuned for his new works both on stage and in music.

Transcript

[Bert]

Did I talk too much?

[Co-host 1]

Can't I just let it go?

[Usher]

Thank you so much.

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[Bert]

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[Bert]

Cmintmobile.com get it. The Birch Show. Hey, Usher. What's going on?

[Usher]

You got hate in your blood, man.

[Bert]

I'm serious, man. It just doesn't.

[Usher]

Don't hate me. Love me for being productive, man. This is what entertainment is. It doesn't just stop on the stage, man, or on television. You got to keep it moving. How y' all doing, man? Good, dude.

[Bert]

It just doesn't seem fair to me like, that God gave you all of this and we have.

[Usher]

And I'm. Man, this is. This is good, man. This has actually been. It's been a great. It's been a new experience for me, man. I've never. I never prepared for anything quite like this.

[Bert]

You're totally. I mean, we're gonna get into talking about Chicago, but I mean, you're fearless. You really, really are. Like, this is a big deal. Like, a lot of people will dabble in a lot of different areas in entertainment. I'm not trying to kiss your ass here or anything, but I mean, getting up on stage, this is a totally different arena for you. But you seem to, like, just jump right in. No fear at all.

[Usher]

Well, I can't say that there's no fear. I'm just anxious, I'd say, to get started, you know, it's been a lot of. A lot of rehearsal in preparation for it. Because, you know, differently from acting. You can cut in acting or even in doing a video. It doesn't have to be one way every time, but you have to find the moment. You have to search to make sure that you understand the character because you're acting live, man.

[Bert]

Is it really that difficult? Cause when I hear. Honestly, I mean, I've never acted in anything in my whole life, but, like, when I hear actors talk about, but.

[Usher]

You are good at acting a fool.

[Bert]

All right, I'm a natural man. But, like, when I hear these actors saying, you have to assume the role and you have to become the character, it sounds so serious to me. And, like, is that something you really have to do? Or can you just go in there and turn it on and turn it off?

[Usher]

All depending upon what reason you're doing it for. If it's that serious to you and you take your job that serious, then of course you're gonna go the full extent of what you may. What it may take in order for you to prepare for a role. Some people are method actors, and what that is is when they go so deep into character that they never. They don't. They don't. They don't step outside of the character. It becomes a part of their personality. It becomes a part of who they are.

[Co-host 2]

Isn't that what Johnny Depp does, like, with Pirates of the Caribbean or whatever? And he's still a pirate. Even if you're at dinner with him while the movie's shooting, he's still a pirate.

[Bert]

Russell Crowe is another one. He's notorious. Like, for two years before his role, he just starts talking in, like, some New York accent. If he's gonna be in a role where he has to do that, he just never breaks character.

[Usher]

And there you have it.

[Co-host 1]

Did you feel like you had something to prove to the rest of that Chicago cast? Because these are all Broadway people that have been doing this a while. Were you, like, the rookie on the. On the team?

[Usher]

Of course I am. This will be the first musical that I've ever played in, the first time I've ever. I've ever been in a musical. First time I've ever been on Broadway. So, of course, I feel like I have something to prove to myself as well as the other people who have, you know, who've conveyed trust in me playing this role.

[Bert]

Did they have kind of an attitude with you and let me just draw kind of like a little bit of an analogy.

[Usher]

Of course not, man.

[Bert]

They did.

[Usher]

They're totally professional and great professionals, really. You know, the company that I'm working with, a lot of them have toured with the show, have been working with the company for at least, you know, a minimum of 10 years.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Wow.

[Usher]

But I'd always been a fan of Bob Fosse's work. So when I heard the opportunity, you know, had prevented itself for me to play Billy Flynn, of course I jumped at it.

[Bert]

Is there any part of entertainment that you would just rather stay away from? Like, when they called, was there any part of you that said, eh, I don't think that's anything I want to do?

[Usher]

Um, man, I can't find. You know what? No, I mean. I mean, I'm not gonna get into porn. That's one. I do a little bit of everything, but I won't do.

[Bert]

There might be videos out there of.

[Co-host 1]

You that we're so disappointed. I can't go on.

[Co-host 2]

Well, see, now we know where your shortcoming is, because, you know, God can't give you everything. And if you're not willing to take your pants off, we know what he shorted you on.

[Usher]

Nah, not gonna happen. But, you know, it's important to make sure that you explore every opportunity. Like, I mean, as an artist, it will be a natural evolution to go from music to having a label. So I started a label, US Records. And, you know, as an actor, as a young actor in television, as well as growing up and then having the opportunity to be in movies, I said, you know what? It's a natural evolution for me to someday go to Broadway.

[Bert]

I mean, I get. I'm so scared just coming in here some days knowing that there's a bit at 7:15 that's gonna cause some problems. So I'm looking at you like it's pretty cool that you'll just tackle all of this stuff and have very little fear with it, that's all.

[Co-host 1]

And it definitely adds to your credibility as an entertainer to add Broadway to your list, don't you think?

[Usher]

Ah, of course, of course. And all while enjoying an audience. Enjoying and entertaining an audience.

[Bert]

I'm curious if it's actually easier for you to live in New York City and kind of escape, like, your star status, because in New York, you know, there's a whole bunch of actors and actresses that live up there, and it's not that big a deal to see, like, a list celebrities. So is there some comfort in you, like, walking around the streets or people hounding you up there the same way they do like, here in Atlanta?

[Usher]

You know what, man? I've been so, so busy that I don't even get the opportunity to walk the streets.

[Bert]

Really?

[Usher]

Yeah, man. In preparation for this, you know, I'm very focused. I'm more focused than I've been my entire career, man. You know, simply because one I want to physically be. Be able to pull this off. Biofilter choreography is isolated movement, so it's. It takes a lot of your energy, especially if you understand how to hit it and hit it right as well as I'm playing eight shows a week, so, I mean, you really. That's unheard of. Hello. Can I get a hand clap for that? Y' all a tough audience, man.

[Bert]

Dude. I mean, I know nothing about Broadway, so I don't know if eight is a lot, if it's a little nothing.

[Usher]

Listen, there's a matinee. We perform at 2 o'. Clock. We perform at 2 and also at 8 on Wednesday and Saturday. And for the rest of the week, it's just one show. The only day that we have off is Monday.

[Co-host 2]

When your mom's been so instrumental in your career and right by your side the whole way, have you reached the point where she just doesn't tell her friends what you're doing? Because their kids are like, hey, Jimmy's the manager of three quick trips now. And, oh, yeah, Usher's doing eight shows on Broadway every week.

[Usher]

I think every mother's gonna be excited about, you know, their child's accomplishments in life, you know, no matter whether it's small or big. My mother's always been, you know, very supportive. You know, as a matter of fact, a lot of it is due to her. She's my manager.

[Co-host 2]

So, you know, how many of those. Your first week of shows, how many of those is your mom gonna be at and how many people she bringing to each one? Cause I imagine they're probably selling a lot of tickets just through. Through your family alone?

[Usher]

Oh, yeah, man. Through my family alone. Well, my grandmother and my grandfather, they're traveling up to see me do my thing on Broadway. My entire staff, family, and team are gonna come up and show their support. So, yeah, you're right. I might take up the first 10 roles.

[Bert]

Talking to Usher this morning on the Bird show on all the hits. Q100.

[Usher]

What?

[Co-host 2]

To let your grandma see you perform on Broadway?

[Usher]

You know what? You know what's amazing? Broadway is something that she always wanted to do. So in a way, I feel like she would live vicariously through me.

[Co-host 1]

Definitely. She definitely will. How long are you gonna be on Broadway?

[Usher]

I'm gonna be on Broadway from Aug. 22 to Oct. 1 in the musical at the Ambassador. Chicago the Musical.

[Bert]

Are there even any tickets available for this thing? I would think it would sell out pretty quick.

[Usher]

The tickets are available as of now.

[Bert]

Okay.

[Usher]

Okay.

[Bert]

You better get them quick. If you're going up to New York City. I heard you had to make some sacrifices even before you took off, like you were supposed to be in Beyonce's video or something, and you had to turn that down because of this opportunity.

[Usher]

No, that's not true. Why don't you hear that?

[Bert]

You know, that's the thing about the Internet is you just never know what to believe and never know what to. So at least we gotta run em by to see if it's true or not.

[Usher]

I know.

[Bert]

No.

[Co-host 1]

Quick question about the paparazzi and the tabloids and all that kind of stuff. We get to talk to a lot of entertainers and actors and musicians that are. It's just. They feel like. It seems to me that the paparazzi and the tabloids are just out of control. Do you feel like part of it is good for you and part of it is bad for you? And I don't know, what's your take on the whole paparazzi tabloid hysteria going on right now?

[Usher]

Well, I feel like the world is so busy trying to worry about everybody else's business that they don't pay attention to their own. Or maybe their lives are so boring that they need to find entertainment. So, you know, there's a job for everybody. And, you know, as long as paparazzi is not disrespectful, you know, there's a lot of entertainers that, you know, they want their privacy. And, you know, unfortunately, when you sign up to become an entertainer, you know, anonymity goes out the window. So it's like, you just have to understand. You know, for me, I haven't personally, I haven't gotten so mad that I hate, you know, paparazzi. I take pictures. I try to be as courteous as I possibly can to fans when I'm out in public, but they can be a little, you know, evasive sometimes.

[Bert]

You know, I saw some of this tabloid stuff firsthand with Usher. This was months ago, and it was the Atlanta Peach party, and you were there. I said hey to you. I saw you there. Pamela Anderson was there also. And I'm watching you guys. I mean, you look like you're having a good time. You're sitting in vip, everybody's drinking together and stuff. And you and Pamela Anderson are shoulder to shoulder, right? I watched the whole thing go down, right? The next morning, I wake up and I'm doing some show prep right before we go on the air to see what's going on in the world. And all these tabloids the next morning are Pamela Anderson And Usher hooking up at a party in Atlanta. I was just there a couple hours ago. There was none of that going on at all.

[Usher]

Like, are you serious, man?

[Co-host 2]

Kid Rock is gonna kick your ass.

[Usher]

This is crazy, man. But, you know, they gotta figure out a story. You can't believe everything you hear, you know? Can't believe everything you read. Press gotta report the drama, man. Right?

[Bert]

I guess. You know what? When people do, I think, live vicariously through you, I mean, they're never gonna be celebrities like that. So to live vicariously through you is pretty much all we have.

[Usher]

Well, I'm gonna definitely entertain you. So you guys make sure you come on up here in between August 22 and October 1. Bird, I want you guys to come up here to see the show. Really? I really do. I'm asking you to.

[Bert]

I got my mom up there in New York City.

[Usher]

I'll tell you what, I'm asking you to come.

[Bert]

No, I'm saying I'll come up and visit my mom, and I'll come and I'll see the show.

[Usher]

Serious? There you go. Cool. All right.

[Bert]

Totally serious. Do you have some movie stuff going on also? Again, this is all Internet stuff, but, like, the rumors are that you may be doing something with Denzel Washington or Morgan Freeman.

[Usher]

Yes, there had been conversation about me being a part of a Denzel Washington film. And yes, I had been writing. I'd been writing a. A piece with. With Morgan Freeman. And, you know, I don't know exactly when they're going to be greenlit to go, but they're. They're in the works. There's a lot of things I got going. My label, I got one chance, and radio. We just went to radio with their record look at a feature of Fable, which you guys are playing so well. Wow, man. Thank you so much for playing. Matter of fact, can we cut into the record after we get off this phone?

[Ad/Promo Voice]

You.

[Bert]

You know, as soon as we hang up with you, we're going to do it 10 songs in a row. It's all gonna be you. It's all.

[Usher]

I love it. But you guys look out for one chance later. The album. The album be out a little bit later this year. And Rico Love, that's what I'm doing as it relates to music and giving back to, you know, the fans. There it is right there. And hopefully in the next year, you guys will hear about something.

[Bert]

Why don't you do this about something for me and music, when the CD comes out, why don't you come in here and we'll Play all the cuts if you're in here, and we'll play all the cuts right before it comes out.

[Usher]

You know what? I'd love to bring one chance up there and do that with you. Okay, that's a bet. You got it.

[Bert]

You got it.

[Co-host 2]

What about a tour? Any tour happening anytime soon?

[Usher]

Actually, they are on the Up Close and Personal tour. It's the Neo and Chris Brown tour. They'll be opening up for them, which is a real big step for them. You know, for me, I'm not touring until I get another album out. Gotcha.

[Bert]

Now, what's this thing that you keep hinting about something big? Cause, I mean, you're throwing it out there. That means you want to talk about it.

[Usher]

Something big. Well, my next album.

[Co-host 2]

Okay, you got a timeline?

[Usher]

I'm hoping by 2007. Okay. Okay.

[Bert]

You just got your hands in so much stuff. I mean, it seems like, hey, man.

[Usher]

Entertainment don't stop and it don't quit. The show must go on, man.

[Co-host 1]

You're so accomplished in your career. Do you feel like that sacrifice is parts of your personal life? Are you as satisfied in your personal life as you are in your career accomplishments?

[Usher]

You know, to be perfectly honest with you, it takes time. I mean, some people don't find, you know, happiness truly within themselves until later on in their life. I mean, I've learned to love, you know, I've learned to love myself enough to, you know, be patient and, you know, eventually I'll make sure I get it right. You know, don't jump to it too much until you hear that I was married or something like that. Might hear I was dating this person or I've been out with this person. Something like that. Don't jump until you hear it, rc that I'm married or something. Okay.

[Bert]

Okay. What is the final goal? I mean, you've got your hands in all this. I mean, you're doing so well in so many different areas. Is there a goal for you? A final like this? Is it?

[Usher]

Yeah. I can tell you what it is. Okay. I want a Grammy, Tony, Oscar, Emmy.

[Bert]

Whoa, that's a long award show.

[Co-host 2]

So that's. So you haven't set any real high goals for yourself.

[Bert]

Once you win all those, you're gonna back out.

[Usher]

There it is. All right.

[Co-host 2]

Hey, this is a totally random question. Has nothing to do with what we were talking about, but I was thinking about the number. I mean, you've been around for a while now, and you've been on the radio with us a bunch of times, and you've you know, you've done probably more interviews than you could count. And Bert and I just got back from this convention of radio people, and for the most part, all radio people are clowns. What is the worst or stupidest or however you want to phrase it, the worst question you have ever been asked during a radio interview?

[Usher]

The stupidest question I've ever been asked during radio. Yeah, you did hit me out of left field.

[Co-host 2]

I mean, maybe not stupid, like, might even. It doesn't have to be like, stupidest of all time. I don't know if you have some, like, grand trophy thing, but, like, what's an example of a really bad interview question?

[Usher]

A really bad interview question? I think the worst interviews are when, you know, you don't really have a rapport or relationship with the, you know, with the host or whatever, you know, and they just kind of invade your privacy. It's no different than talking to some random person, man. But, you know, that's probably the worst. I don't know.

[Bert]

Well, we have history. Yeah, we definitely have history.

[Co-host 2]

We're friends now.

[Usher]

We have a good history, though.

[Bert]

We do. It started rough, but we're all right.

[Usher]

I love you, Bert.

[Bert]

Now it's all good, dude. Hey, what is it about Atlanta you're missing? I mean, you're obviously gone for weeks at a time. When you're away, is there anything from Atlanta that you crave?

[Usher]

Yeah, my Porsche gt.

[Bert]

Aw, you can get that anywhere.

[Co-host 2]

Aw, nah, man.

[Usher]

It's a wonderful kind. I miss it more than anything.

[Bert]

Is there like one restaurant or South City Kitchen? Yeah.

[Usher]

Yeah. Oh, man, I love to go down to the grape and have some wine. Lenox Mall, of course, or 6 Plaza. Really?

[Bert]

And our show, of course. And of course the bird show.

[Usher]

The bird show.

[Co-host 2]

We heard you set your alarm at 5:30 and get up every morning with the 5:30 club.

[Usher]

You know I do.

[Bert]

All right. Usher. Hopefully I'm serious about coming up to New York. My mom lives up there. I'm always looking for an excuse to come up. If I do that, I would love to come check you out in Chicago, man.

[Usher]

All right, y'. All.

[Co-host 1]

And we can't say good luck this time. We have to say break a leg.

[Usher]

Don't you say good luck.

[Co-host 1]

We have to say break a leg.

[Usher]

There it is. Break a leg.

[Bert]

All right, Usher.

[Usher]

August 22nd to October 1st. You guys come up and check me out in Chicago. The musical at the Ambassador Theater. All right.

[Bert]

We're gonna actually link over to their website from ours at all the hits.

[Usher]

Q100.Com and also, Burt, put that one chance look at her featuring Faber on for me, man.

[Bert]

Dude, why don't you come in here and play with us?

[Usher]

No, listen, I'm gonna bring the entire album up there, as I told you, and play all of the music. Gonna have them sing, do some interviews and all that, man.

[Bert]

You got it? You come in here, it's done.

[Co-host 2]

He's kind of busy right now working on his Tony. Mr. Hey, funny bit at morning show boot camp winner, award winner. He's got a bigger, bigger Grammy, Tony.

[Bert]

Oscar thing going on, right? All right, hold on one sec for us, all right? All right, Josh, good talking to you.

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On his first day back in the White House, Donald Trump signed a controversial executive order stating that there are only two genders, male and female, and that those genders are tied to biological sex. This statement was simple and devastating, and it signaled that the gender backlash had reached a boiling point. I'm Julie Kohler, the host of White Picket Fence. This season, we're examining the many faces of this gender backlash, how it's showing up in our politics and culture. It's a scary time, but it's also a moment for imagination. What becomes possible when we imagine a better future? Subscribe to White Picket Fence. Wherever you listen to podcasts.

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