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- [00:09]
A
Welcome to the Big Story, a roundtable featuring members of the Ad Exchanger editorial team. Every week we bring you an in depth discussion of key developments in digital marketing and media.
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B
Hello everyone. Our Managing editor, Allison Schiff spent the first half of this week in Washington, D.C. for the IAB Public Policy and Legal Summit and then at the IAPP Global Summit where privacy professionals gather to talk about all things privacy, a scope that includes ad tech and also goes beyond it. The conference happened on the heels of the landmark Meta Settlement where it was ordered to pay $375 million for practices that harmed children. And it underscores the importance of understanding the impact of data privacy and legal rules that intersect with ad tech. But while child safety, along with protecting health data, has been a regulatory focus as of late, this conference has been dominated by AI, taken over by conversations about how it will impact the future. Sounds familiar. Because that's what's happening in adtech too. Allison will share the three things that our audience needs to take away from this conference then the Sports World is Getting the Retail Media bug. Our James Hersher wrote about the intersection between retail media and the sports world in his Commerce Media newsletter last week and we will continue that conversation on the pod the Indiana Pacers just launched their own retail media network and also Dick's Sporting Goods has one which has its own retail media network. And it owns a popular Little League and scorekeeping app, Game Changer. My son's team even uses it. And having both data and unique inventory that's not tied to sponsored listings is reminiscent perhaps of other retail media players that also sell media like Amazon with Prime Video and Walmart with Vizio. So we've got a lot to talk about. I'm Sarah Sluice, Editorial Director at Ad Exchanger, and before we dive in and talk to Ellison about her conference, I want to remind you of another conference. You can mark your calendars for May 18th to 20th in Las Vegas at the Park MGM for programmatic AI where you can get a boost on how to make smarter, make smarter decisions, be more effective and improve performance by using AI and marketing. You can use the code POD10 for a 10% discount. Thank you to our listeners who are there. We look forward to hearing your voices as well as you hearing ours when you show up. So let's dive in. Allison, you are you went from New York to D.C. and now down to Florida for the coming Passover holiday. And how is that? You know, what did you see besides cherry blossoms in dc?
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A
Well, down with bread. I am Florida for Passover. Well, so yeah, I spent the past two days with hundreds of privacy lawyers, but all like all manner of people because there are sort of like our people, quote unquote at the IAB event, people who live and breathe and think about digital advertising all the time. And then at an event like the IPP Global Summit, it's bringing together privacy professionals who spend a lot of time thinking about like data flows and data collection and science, cybersecurity and how to protect data. But it's not necessarily in an advertising context. Some of the sessions were so specific and obviously this is important to somebody. There was a session on the agenda about employee privacy and guidance for recruitment and off boarding. So I mean, yeah, I mean there are sessions for every possible privacy pro.
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B
Did they talk about Slack at all? Everyone's wondering whether companies Slack record the audio transcripts of your huddles. That was our conversation.
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A
That's funny because. So I was talking to somebody at a dinner and we were joking about what's the first question that people ask her? She's a chief privacy officer at an ad tech company. When they find out what she does and they always want to know, is my phone listening to me? That's the number one question she gets. So I guess our version of that is, is Slack listening to me?
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B
It's been a question that' up a few times lately when I've been huddling with people. Okay, so you know, we're, you're in, you're in Washington. See any, you know, people and you know, with fleets of limos and convoys
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C
or any, any celebs liberties at the Privacy lawyer conference.
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A
So actually like legit. Yes. There was a keynote from Prince Harry. Like he was there. Okay, yeah. Well, if you think about it, it kind of makes sense. He was talking about the impact of a lack of privacy on people's lives. Like what happens to them when they don't have privacy. And he would know because he's had no privacy like since he was born. Like everything he's done has been written about. He's had conversations hacked. Like he's lived in the public eye. It's this very extreme version. It's like a Panopticon with him and you know, his wife and kids and his siblings and parents at the center. So there was that. I didn't get to listen to it, but I read about it and then I didn't, I didn't get to meet Prince Harry, but I did get to meet Max Schrems. He did this AMA style session at iapp. For people who don't know, although I think everyone knows who he is or most people do. He's an Austrian lawyer and a privacy advocate and he's basically made it his life's work to be a. He's a professional thorn in the side of big tech. So he and I took a selfie after the, the Q and A. He's a very nice dude and he stood around for like 30 minutes after the Q and A taking photos and answering people's questions and just generally chatting.
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C
If you're Max Shrems, this is your spot. This is.
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B
Yeah. What is what? For those people who might need their memory jogged a little bit, they're like, oh yeah, Max Schrems, like what is he responsible for? I believe there's some cookie related things that.
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Well, primarily it's the safe harbor.
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C
So.
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A
So the transfer of data between the US and Europe. He got a couple of versions of that framework knocked down Schrems 1 and Shrems 2. And the big joke is like what is Schrems 3? So when I was waiting to talk to him, I'm like, hey, we have a Schrems comic. I'm going to pull that up and show it to him. Do you guys remember we did that? It was back in 2022.
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C
Oh, he has like sharpening a pencil.
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A
Yeah. He's leaning back in a chair. He's wearing a T shirt that says surveillance advertising on it with a strike through it. He's sharpening his pencil and he's watching. Then President Biden and the president of the European Commission on TV announce the EU US Data privacy framework for Transatlantic Data flows and he's basically like plotting how to blow it up. He has like a little raised eyebrow like I'm gonna, I'm gonna destroy this thing. He thought it was funny. He hadn't seen it.
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B
I think we might now need to tag anyone that when we use their likeness in the comic. I feel like we haven't done that because sometimes it's just for people who, who want to, want to know. But we've, we've had a lot of bold faced names in our, in our comic for those people who want, who look for it every Friday or Monday in the newsletter. Okay, so Max Shrem's citing. What about any themes that you saw that ran through the events? You posted a really funny video about AI everywhere, including honestly like the coolest laptop stickers I've ever seen. Like Oregon Trail themed data privacy stickers. I want that one.
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A
I can. So for people who are watching the video. This is it. It's so funny.
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C
It's upside down.
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B
It's upside down. And also maybe backwards because of down and backwards.
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But it says you have clicked a suspic vicious link. You have died of a data breach.
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B
So funny. In the Oregon Trail text. Yes, green and black. Remember those days? Maybe you don't, Maybe you do. I think we all do. Back to the big theme. But besides the fact that privacy lawyers have a sense of humor, which we've
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A
learned they really do, by the way. They have a really like dad joke inspired sense of humor. They really lean into puns. You notice that, or I used to notice that with the blog posts that the FTC would put out there about certain settlements. They would always lean into wordplay. Although I think that was one particular person, Leslie Fair, who has since retired. But I hate to be boring. Like an answer to your question, what was the big theme? And you already said it, like AI. It's almost like a lazy thing to say. Like, oh, everyone was talking about AI, but everyone absolutely was. Had to use it responsibly. Like, how could that not be the theme? So putting that aside, because there are still so many open questions, kids privacy came up a lot. And that makes sense too, because state laws and the ftc, they're focused on protecting children online. The FTC just had a workshop on age verification. There are also new requirements under COPPA that go into effect really soon on April 22. There were some amendments to COPPA last year that the FTC made. So you should be aware of that because there are new obligations like notices you'll have to provide to parents if you touch kids data, separate disclosures for third parties related to targeted ads and kids. And then this isn't like very sexy or whatever, but it's very real and it's very important. I'm. It's contracts. Like a bunch of people at the IAB event pointed out how some of the recent California enforcement actions are essentially just about contract failures. It's not the whole thing, but that was in there. So, like, companies either didn't have the right contracts in place to show their relationships with their ad tech partners, or they couldn't even produce them when asked because they were just like using their agency's contract like they were riding along with it. That was a big issue in the Honda settlement. So you do really need to have your contracts in place. It's pretty prosaic, but just do it.
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B
You know, a lot of people are using AI, like to do legal work for them. Like, I think there's even. I think it's a local government is like suing OpenAI for like practicing law without a license. Because this person, like filed like a dozen lawsuits with these, like, weird OpenAI things. You know, we're open. I was like, of course you're in the right and you can refile this lawsuit. What's the, what's their take on, you know, being white collar replacement by AI that.
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A
That came up during. It was a really interesting panel with Judge Boasberg, who was the judge who was presiding over the Instagram antitrust trial, and then another judge, Allison Burrows in Massachusetts. And she was talking about how she's noticed like, hallucinated citations when lawyers are presenting their cases, and it's just like, unacceptable. And there was one case where I think, I don't know, I don't remember if it was her courtroom, but she talked about it where either she or another judge had the company that had fake citations. They had to pay legal fees for the other side because the other side had spent time trying to chase these cases down. It was like a huge waste of their time. So. Yeah. And then they were basically saying, and this reminded me of how marketers talk about themselves, how we talk about ourselves, like, no, we won't be replaced. We still need to write these judgments. We have to bring our brain to it. Like, maybe it'll automate some of the manual tasks, like the copy and paste stuff, but we're still needed.
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B
Yeah. I mean, I feel like I encounter a lot of people trying to go to Chatbots for legal advice. Dane Dangerous. Okay, so what about regulators? I'm not gonna talk about Prince Harry. What a get though, from. Well, he's not a regulator.
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C
He's not a regulator.
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A
He's not even a royal anymore.
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B
He's an advocate, a privacy advocate. Prince Harry. Harry and Shrems. I want to see them in a photo together. Okay, what. What did the regulators say?
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A
Well, there were a lot of judges and lawmakers and regulators on stage and just around. I mean, I guess that's always true in D.C. but it's not like I have them. So there were state reps and state senators from New Jersey and Delaware, and there was this one panel at iab. It was really interesting. One of the people on it was this woman, Krista Griffith. She's the state rep for the 12th district of Delaware. And she gave this very clear snapshot of how privacy looks from the state perspective, like right now. And, well, two things. So one of her points, which I've heard people say many times, but it just bears repeating. States aren't silos. So they don't just watch what one state is doing or another state is doing. They actually talk to each other. They have these regular multi state calls where the AG's office and lawmakers will share notes and talk about their cases and get inspired by each other. So, you know, an infraction in one state is not just encapsulated in that state. So you really need to think about the fact that there are 50 of them. And then something else she said really struck me. She was very involved with the passage of Delaware's state privacy law in 2022 and back then. So between 2019 and when it passed in 2022 and they were trying to push it through, it was just crickets. Like that's the word she used on both sides, like the pro regulation side. She couldn't get people to pick it up and she couldn't get advocates to be interested. And then, well, there was actually so a lot of interest on the industry side to try and kill it. So basically like no one that she needed to care, like, cared. And she was also trying to like fight people that wanted to break it down. And people's eyes would glaze over when you talk to them about, about privacy. And now privacy is really important to her constituents. She called it a kitchen table topic. And it's easy to find advocacy groups that want to help promote it. And you know, there's a better back and forth with industry. And I mean, one reason is because privacy is this cultural issue now. It was after the Dobbs decision that was one wave and also immigration, which is driving the conversation now.
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C
I think it also, you know, there you start to get into like there, there starts to become an overlap with like, you mentioned like the kitchen table kind of issue because like, okay, now there is at least like a lot of concern about dynamic pricing or something like that. Like, you know, there's going to be a lot, there's a lot more digital price tags on shelves. Like there's a big Walmart rollout. And you can start to see how it's like I, you know, I've seen politicians like making this argument in places like, oh, like based on your browsing, you got paid, you're charged more. Like based on, you know, whatever you got changed, you got charged more. So people like all of a sudden you, you could see how like privacy and like, okay, like, yeah, like they
- [15:32]
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intersect and it's real. Yeah, it's becoming real. It's really Real to people.
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B
Personalized pricing. Not. Not a fan at all. I think that anyone. I feel like humans are so much more sensitive to. To loss than gain. So I feel like the idea that I might be getting more of a discount some of the time is. Is more than outweighed by maybe thinking that I would be charged a higher, higher price. So not a fan.
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A
And to not understand why either. It's a very opaque process.
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B
I know. Whereas. Whereas now it's like, now you have that. But that's like, you know, the Starbucks at the airport or something. You're like, no, that's. To that one.
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A
The $27 Starbucks in Las Vegas.
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B
I just. I went to Mexico in January and there was a Subway there. And apparently the sandwiches were like $25. Uh, my husband was scoping it out and someone was like, do not eat here.
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C
That is also personalized person.
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Yeah, it's like, okay, that might have more to do with, you know, international something or the other. The prestige. The prestige US Sandwich brand.
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The tuna's not tuna and the bread's not bread.
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But anyway, okay, we'll get back on track. Okay. Two more things I want to talk about. One is, were there any under the radar topics that you would predict are going to be more popular? We know that child privacy and child safety is super important. We know health data is also really important. AI is an area of focus. Is there going to be a next kitchen table topic or something else that's under the radar? Like, what. What's next?
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A
I wouldn't call this a kitchen table topic, but it is something that everybody should be thinking about. And it cuts through all of the things or touches all of the things that you just mention, which is data minimization. And it's not new, but it's definitely not new as a concept. And it shouldn't be new to anyone that it's on, like, regulators radar. The California Privacy Protection Agency put out a enforcement like notice basically warning people that they care about data minimization. And this was multiple years ago, but nobody really talks about it that much to me anyway, which I find kind of strange. And it is something that regulators really care about. And this whole collect everything and save everything forever mindset and just more is better is very out of step with where state laws are going and where the AGs are going. And you should really be able to say, like in a sentence, if someone asks you why you're collecting a given signal. And it should be clear not just to a regulator, but to a regular person and how Long you want to keep that thing and what you're using it for. And if you can't do that, it's
- [18:12]
B
a red flag, something to be thinking about what's passed in the OpenRTB bid requests or. I feel like sometimes this is something we see in practice. Like think about when Apple redid all of its settings, where it really was like, this app is tracking your location. Do you still want it to track? And kind of encouraging people to take a more cautious stance on not sharing their location with the flashlight app or whatever from a decade ago. But I think that continues to show up. It's hard, I think as a business to know what data you will need in the future versus what you won't need. But we'll, we'll see. I think data minimization can also be economically helpful, especially when we see how expensive it is to process things in data centers and so forth. Like maybe people, maybe that will happen due to cost versus the goodness of their hearts. I don't know.
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A
That is funny how a lot of things do happen for that reason, right? It's not like we care about the environment, but we care about less waste, like ad waste, you know, so that's why we focus on SPO or, or whatever. But, but yeah, what you're saying about consents and getting like in the moment consent, I don't, I don't mind that so much. I kind of like it because at least it's semi informed. And I think data minimization though is, is also really about just not keeping stuff forever. Like if you use, I mean, you need a reason why you're collecting something for sure. But if you've used something and it's, it's, it's really past its prime, it's a liability to you.
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C
There are so many things though. It does sort of like run contrary to like really frankly what every business wants and the kind and this sort of like ethos of like intelligence gathering, which like at the national scale is always like everything like you gather. Don't make judgments about what's good or not everything, everything, everything. And you know, like it like Amazon and Google, like everyone's like, oh, like, you know, do they, of course they benefit from having everything like, oh, like, do I need your address? No, but I just love to fill out all those data fields on my, like on my customer profiles. And it just is so hard to be like, oh, like, you know, judiciously, do I need this? It's like, well, maybe like it's going to be great.
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A
Like it's, it's hard, but it's necessary. And it was when you said intelligence gathering, I was like, oh, no, don't use that term.
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B
Thank you, Alison, for, for attending this privacy conference for us and reporting back.
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A
My distinct pleasure.
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B
And we are back. So, James, we're talking about how sports and retail media are smushing together. It's a little bit reminiscent for me about how everyone was talking about how retail media and CTV were smushing together. So this, this new data form is kind of informing data, data driven advertising and new and different and creative ways. So to start with the Pacers. The Indiana Pacers have a retail media network. Like as someone, I guess, who isn't a big sports fan. But honestly, even for those who are big sports fans, like, what the heck does a retail media network look like for a sports league?
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C
Like it is. Yeah, so specifically it is the Pacers sort of ownership group, which they also own the Indiana Fever, which is like the WNBA team and the arena. So they have lots of like ticket sales and sort of interests in concerts and you know, just also all sorts of like, events. So it is like a little broader. They could, you know, in terms of like what they can package. But yeah, sort of. We're looking. Yeah, obviously like the main focus is the NBA, WNBA stuff. And I mean, at least to start it does. They have, they have sponsors. There are a lot of advertisers who they already work with or I don't know about, you know, a lot by the standards of like a TV network or something. But you know, they have a stadium full of sponsors and like merchandise partners and food and beverage and all that. So it does make sense to, you know, start approaching them and like, oh, let's, you know, let's extend this to, you know, the backbone of it is that they've assembled this sort of first party data set of fans. You know, you connected to like merchandise, ticket sales, like as much as possible to the sort of the stadium and like the real first party data. But then you start to branch out into like social media fandoms and like websites and all that kind of thing. You know, people might go to like ESPN and like show they have like a marked preference or something like that. So assembling this nationwide or in theory like global network of fans as well as the opportunity not even to target those fans, but to target. So if someone like searches or is reading a story about the trade deadline or the Pacers or something like that, then you, you might just serve your sponsor partner there like Knowing it's about the Indiana Pacers. And even if it's, you know, you don't know who the audience target is, but there's some sort of contextual boost to being like, oh, we're the Pacer sponsor, like we want to be in this sort of around all these terms. Yeah, you know, that's, that's, that I think is the pitch. And then in theory it's going to, you know, making, making that same sales pitch to agencies and like companies who aren't your, your in stadium sponsors.
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B
Okay, so it sounds like there's all this unique fan data. We know who are the, you know, sports fans, maybe who saw the Taylor Swift concert, if you came to Indiana, all that, all that good stuff and potentially you see you know, a billboard while you're in the arena, you could get a digital one after the fact or maybe there's some measurement there. It reminds me a little bit actually of like Live Nation, which has long had an advertising business. Is that a good comparison point?
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C
Yeah, I think so. In a sense, Live Nation almost has an advantage because of they have this really strong like everyone, you know using a credit card, sign up with an account that's like your Live Nation account. Whereas I think the Pacers, like unless you're like, you know, on their newsletter or a season ticket holder or something like their, their sort of natural credit card based purchase, like first party data set is a little like harder to tie to a person and then to retarget online say. But I definitely think that that's you know, like a part of the inspiration. Although he did, you know, talking to, talking to you know, their, their VP who's in charge of this. He. Yeah, he, he talked about like Petco and Amazon. Like for him it really was this sort of the retail inspiration. But yeah, like for everyone I think it looks like low hanging fruit, like any sort of opportunity.
- [25:28]
B
Yeah. And it sounds like they're doing stuff too that's like contextual. So like it's not just like reaching you in general, but it's like, okay, you're reading some article about Caitlin Clark or you know, triple doubles game winners, trade deadline, draft lottery. And then you get that content, you know, kind of when it's contextually relevant. Which I think, you know, I think that's an improvement over just seeing the shoe ad follow you everywhere. And that's Yieldmo and Deloitte are part of this. So they've got some kind of experienced companies that can spin up retail media networks or ad tech companies there. So that's definitely an interesting one to watch. And I want to connect it to another interesting retail media sports example that you bring up in the story. Dick's Sporting Goods. I think we all know Dick's Sporting Goods. They have a retail media network that's interesting. But I think what's kind of the even more interesting connection point is that they have this app, it's called Game Changer. I know my little league team for my son used it and kind of keep score. It's just kind of like a utility type app. I feel like there was a, there were a ton of companies that like bought like apps like I think like Map my Run or some of those like running apps are owned by like athletic gear companies. So I would have kind of put it in that trend bucket. But now it's like oh it's actually in a different trend bucket of like the retail media companies that also have this like separate media supply like Walmart and Vizio or Amazon and Prime Video or Dicks and Game Changer. The app. Like what do you think of my, my hypothesis, James?
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C
It is an interesting one. Dix has had Game Changer for a decade. So it predates, it predates the media network and like really the true onset of the retail media craze. It. I think that that was a very, a very like far sighted opportunistic buy. It probably, you know, they probably got it for like next to nothing. And also like baseball is sort of occupies a very strange place in, in like sports retail because it, it, it's just like the most high profit business. Like there's the equipment and merchandise sales in baseball are like totally bonkers. So even just to sort of like Dick's just sort of owns like baseball equipment now sales, like they just own it and it's you know game Game Changer was a big part of that but definitely only you know, in the past few years it has also become I think there probably is like an actual like Game Changer plus like subscription service. They have an ad supported tier, they have live streaming of kids sports games. And so I said yeah, it's like oh, who can like hate on that Like a parent like watching their you know, their kids like baseball game or whatever game. But. But yeah it is all. It is definitely like a powerhouse data source and yeah like an interesting like add on media inventory wise like in terms of like making them the actual inventory owner and the like and not just sort of a on site search whatever. So. So yeah it is one of those things where it's like, okay, there's not a lot of that, like other, you know, big retailers making a kind of interesting purchase like that. And they make a big deal about it too. Like they're very, they're very like loud and proud on their earnings calls saying like, this is, you know, game changer. And the most recent one, just a couple weeks ago, they said game Changer and Dick's Media. The combination we think is why we're going to have profit margin expansion for the next few years.
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B
Ooh, profit margin expansion. That sounds like the, I don't know, just like a key, a key part of the retail media playbook is being able to improve margins.
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C
Yeah, definitely following the Walmart there.
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B
And I. There's two other themes that you bring up in your piece. Two big things that are disrupting the sports business, if you will. And, and one is that you have these, you know, college athletes and kind of amateur athletes that are now allowed to make money by being, I don't know, influencers. And they can accept advertising money if I'm, if I'm detailing that correctly. And then we also have people betting on everything and we have tons of money being spent on sports betting. Huge area of advertising and revenue. So how do those two things intersect? If you want to maybe tackle them one after the other or in tandem. But two big things I'm curious about.
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C
It's true. Yeah, like I don't think the data driven marketing and sports combination is like really very insidious. Like the whole, you know, Dick's Media or you know, the Pacers starting a retail media network like that all seems sort of fun and fine to me. Definitely like where sports and data driven advertising and gambling meet is a very messy intersection. And they're definitely like the whole nil, you know, nca, NCAA players getting paid now is like, you know, I think that's like a popular change. Like everyone it feels like was, you know, felt like at the ncaa like the situation was just unfair. But it is just this very messy wild west now where you have teenagers who are like get huge like marketing contracts with, you know, because the schools can give them like guaranteed co marketing deals or other schools can offer them superior co marketing deals. You know, there's a Texas like state fund now that has tens, if not like into the, you know, nine digit, hundreds of millions of dollars and they, you know, they raise money in state, raise money all over the place. They have like a plus media program and it's just about giving marketing deals to high school and college athletes so they don't go to different states. So it's, it's a total mess and there's been all sorts of, you know, there's been a lot of like investigations and, and yeah, people have like, you know, gone to jail for sort of fixing games. There's it. It is just a big problem. Part of it too is that I think the like a lot of these gambling company companies and sort of with their marketing, they're so good. Like they have such incredible data those sportsbook, you know, they know who to target, they know like who not to and yeah, it's a, it just becomes a very messy place.
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B
I think I, my personal stance, I, I think it's great that these, you know, younger athletes can make some money. But then you also have heard about how you know with people are like betting on like oh, how many you know, free throws are they going to make or something and just like booing and cheering on these college athletes because some like sub bet isn't paying off. Like it's definitely seems like it's just, it's changing. Changing how people engage with sports in a pretty, pretty substantive way. I know on the viewership side it's like improving engagement. But I don't know James, I know that you like a sports better too here or there.
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C
So that's true. Although I don't have any of like the mobile sports books probably like definitely for the best. But yeah, I mean it is just like the incentive is always there. It definitely is just like a problem for a lot of times it's people who are like, you know, it's sort of like a teenager's never made money before and, and yeah like all of a sudden like maybe there's, maybe there's tons of money. Like especially if it's like oh like March Madness, a huge like betting moment for America. Like you might yeah have some like teenager who hundreds of thousands of dollars are like swinging in live and like people are betting live. Like I think there are rules too. I was reading there's an interesting substack from a former economic director, I think Obama era kind of guy. But you know, talking about like oh some of the things that they've stopped allowing in European sports where there's a much longer history of betting and which they would never allow in like other forms of lottery marketing. Like a state lottery cannot do, cannot serve you personalized advertising and can't do a lot of this like data driven advertising, sports marketing, like sport, you know, gambling marketing in other countries have like what they call like cooling off Periods where like, yeah, DraftKings and FanDuel sort of notorious for like, they know what teams you follow, they know your bets. And if you've had like a bunch of bad beats and they know you're down, they kind of like serve you ads to like, get back in it, you know, like get back on. And so in other places there are legally enforced, like cooling off periods where you would not be allowed to market to people. No betting on like live prop bets during a game. Which happens all the time with our, with our books. Like, oh, like, is this, is this drive going to be a touchdown? Is this pitch going to be a strike or something like that? Yeah, you, you definitely reduce the, the, the problems.
- [34:42]
B
So in terms of sports, we'll, we'll wrap things up in a bow for, for our listeners. We've got leagues creating retail media networks kind of with interesting contextual extensions. We've got Dick's Sporting Goods, which has a retail media network as well as a place to, you know, perhaps buy those ads or gather further data. And then we also have a ton of money at play as people. Companies are trying to recruit people to their, you know, sports gambling apps. And then we also have all these younger athletes that get to be influencers and promote themselves. And maybe there's, you know, kind of new, new money funneling in through that way because the creator economy is another one it's going to mash up with. So very interesting, James, I appreciate you drawing all these links between these very separate but related things. And I think this is the next big mashup. Sports media and retail media. So there we are.