← The Bobby Bones Show
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- [00:01]
A
Joshua, my guy, thank you so much for taking the time and being on here. It's good to see you.
- [00:08]
B
Good to see you, man. I'm so sorry that I'm not in Austin, but I'm glad that we made the happen.
- [00:14]
A
Yeah. One of these days we'll make it. We'll. We'll get together in the same city and sometimes we're. We're both speaking at a place and we're kind of in and out. So that's. These days, that's when I do see you.
- [00:26]
B
Yeah. So we're. We're at two events, I think in March, I think, or maybe June, because I'm. We're at an event in Georgia together, and then we're at Ignite together.
- [00:38]
A
So that's Roanoke, Virginia, Lynchburg. Lynchburg, okay.
- [00:45]
B
Yeah, yeah. So the events at Liberty. Yeah.
- [00:47]
A
Okay, so you went to Liberty, right?
- [00:50]
B
Yeah.
- [00:51]
A
Okay. So three years ago, I was thinking about this last night. I was on a plane and I was in the habit about three years ago of downloading a bunch of videos to watch while I'm traveling on tour, going somewhere. And I see one. It was like very, very much clickbait for me, but it was like porn star to preacher or something like that. And it was Alan Parr. Yeah, it was Alan Parr's show. And I was like, ah, that works for me. I'll take it. So I, you know, downloaded on YouTube and. And listened to the. It was like a two hour interview. Listen to the whole thing and on the plane and was blown away by this story and just couldn't. It was so much deeper than I could possibly have imagined. Fast forward a couple years, two or last year, I'm going to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, get off of the plane, and there's this guy, it's you, right? And like, hey. And I didn't put two and two together.
- [02:09]
B
And.
- [02:09]
A
And you're like, hey, are you going to this summit? You and I are both going to this Christian Leadership Summit thing in Jackson Hole. And you're like, hey, you're going to this thing? It's like, yeah, I'm going. And you're like, well, you know, what's your story? And I was like, you know, I was in the country music industry. You're like, oh, okay, cool. And I was like, how about you? And you said, well, I was actually in the porn industry. And I was like, wait a minute, you're the guy. You're the guy. And. And then I told you, you know, about the Alan Parr interview. And then we became Friends. And it's just been, it's been fascinating to watch your journey, to read your book and to see what the Lord has done in your life. Yeah, it's nothing short of a miracle. And anytime someone even becomes a Christian, the Lord saves somebody. It's a miracle akin to the, to the creation of the earth, anyway. Yeah.
- [03:07]
B
Amen.
- [03:08]
A
And then, but, but to see something so dramatic, Your story is so dramatic as the Lord saved you. And brother, I just, I just love you, man. And I love your story and I love what the Lord has done in your life.
- [03:24]
B
Yeah, same. Same here. Huge fan of seeing you just surrender everything and just be incredibly humble. And I just love watching you from afar being a dad. You know, I've got four young kids and, you know, they're maniacs and they want to be outside. They want to do all this stuff, you know, and just like, it's, it's just amazing to see what God will do when you surrender and submit your life and say, hey, I'm going to lay down my plan. I'm going to lay down my wounds, my wins, all of it, and say, lord, I. I want to, I want to serve you in the best way I know how. I want to steward my story in a way that doesn't point people to myself, that points people to you. And also the, you know, that, that the struggle of God wanting to use you individually and, you know, same with me, it's like God wanting to use us individually to proclaim his glory, to be, you know, a carry of his word of reconciliation. But do it in a way where you're walking in humility, but you're doing it in a way that, that seems like, like, Lord, I. I don't want to be seen, but I want you to be seen, but I have to be seen for you to be seen in this way. Just like, navigating through that. Because, you know, I'm sure we'll get into my story to an extent. But for me, like, I go, you get a theological education and I wanted to teach the Bible, but I wanted to teach the Bible to, like, 15 guys in the woods, you know, like.
- [05:01]
A
Right.
- [05:01]
B
I didn't want any part of being on a stage or having a platform. I, you know, I deleted social media. I wanted no part of it.
- [05:12]
A
You deleted social media? You went all in?
- [05:14]
B
Yeah, yeah, I deleted social media. I even had, I had like, old tattoos I covered up. I had social media that I deleted. I mean, I, like, I literally tried. Tried to like, disappear. Ironically, I had a Celtic cross on My shoulder. And then I had, you know, not, not proud of it, but I'd gone out and you know, gotten, I had way too many drinks and I got a random person's name tattooed on my wrist. So I had those, I had both of those tattoos. And so I got, I got that covered up. And the, the cross. The reason I got covered up because for me it wasn't that I wanted to cover up the cross. For me, like, that was a, it was almost like a, a digital footprint of who I used to be. So like I just wanted to, you know, have a, a timestamp of like, hey, here is this on my arm? This is gone. Anything that I'm doing on this side of time, you can't attach to what I used to do. Like, I think like that to an extent made sense to me. But yeah, I got this like koi fish, like jumping out of water and like rocks and stuff. But I covered up like a really small Celtic cross I got when I was 18. Pretty sure the same one Justin Timberlake has.
- [06:36]
A
Because it represented your own life in the porn industry. Your old life in the porn industry. Is that the thinking behind that? Yeah, same with the random name on your wrist.
- [06:46]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [06:47]
A
And, and this was. So you, you come out. We're way out of order here, but you come out of the porn industry 2013, is that right?
- [06:59]
B
January. Yeah, January of 2013. Yeah. So, so there was like this, there was this three month, like just dark, dark period of. I mean we can get into it as much as you want, but like there's this three month period of where like I was struggling with suicidal ideation. Like there were people in my life that was dying left and right and they were just like death swirling around me. And then I had this like crazy interaction at this bank and called my mom and just like high tailed it, you know, out of la where it's like I don't, I don't want to have access to this place, you know, anything that's in it. And just, you know, kind of tucked my tail between my legs and ran, you know, ran home to mama in North Carolina.
- [07:48]
A
So let me see if I can get this right. You're in the porn industry for like eight or nine years.
- [07:56]
B
Like almost seven.
- [07:57]
A
Okay, almost seven. So like 06, 2006 to 2013. Yeah, you, you got into it because you were basically sweet talked as a young aspiring actor moving to la. Broken childhood.
- [08:15]
B
Yeah.
- [08:16]
A
A dad that was non existent in your life and that, that's all kind of part of your Story. You go to la. Aspiring actor, which is. It's. To me, I think it's probably harder than the country music industry, but in the same way it offers the world kind of offers the same promises of stardom and fame and money as. As in country music. So I get it. You go, you got stars in your eyes. It's exciting. California, the weather is amazing. You know, everyone's pretty and happy, it seems. They have nice cars, and it's like, I could do this, you know, and then all of a sudden you get. You get swept off your feet by these people at a restaurant. Right?
- [09:07]
B
Yeah. I mean, you, you. You painted the picture 100% correct. Where it's like, I grew up. My mom had me at, well, she got pregnant at 15, had me at 16. Super, super small town. I think a thing that kind of impacted me as a child is that my dad was in physical proximity of me in this small town, like, you know, a town of like 2,000 people. One gas station, one grocery store. So I would see the man that was my dad, but he was never my father in my life. My mom worked at a restaurant where across the street we could see a gas station. That gas station was. Was named Rogers. And my dad, that was his dad, Roger. So he was a junior, so he was, you know, Roger Dale Jr. So I would see the gas station that my grandfather owned, and I would see him often drive up in his green Z71. And I knew that was my dad, but he was never my dad. So I just think, you know, the, the way that, you know, emote like, you know, just attachment theory or just like emotions are developed where, like, as you're growing up, you have, you know, people and experiences in your life and in your brain. You. You try to navigate through what is this emotion, like, what is this emotion attached to? And regarding, you know, this conflict that I didn't have, you know, a solution for, I believed, well, if I can't understand why he doesn't want to be my dad, it must be my fault. So if, if that is the truth, then maybe I am the solution. And as most men, or most. Most people are high achievers, I thought, well, you know, if. If I can earn enough, if I can become enough, maybe I will feel as if I am enough. And what I just wanted to hear, man, was, son, I'm proud of you. I wanted to hear that so bad. And I thought, well, maybe the next best thing is becoming, you know, great student, great athlete. You know, maybe there was a conquest of achievement or an Accolade or an award or something that would mitigate that. That feeling, that wound, that deficit. And. Yeah, so, I mean, I live my life, you know, doing, you know, well, but doing well on the. In the hope of that accomplishment or affirmation would mitigate the wound that I had. And that drove me, you know, to do good things and to be successful and to work well. But, you know, the thing that was driving was unhealthy and, you know, get in a place where I started modeling and acting when I was around 12, 13 years old, predominantly modeling, studied theater in college, moved to la, had a great manager, had had great representation, but again, it was. It was almost this, like, weird thing where I wanted to succeed in acting and I was doing relatively well in modeling, but that's not what I wanted to do, which is kind of something that, you know, was in the same ecosystem. So in the middle of that, like you were saying, three headhunters came up to me. They're like, hey, would you ever, you know, be interested in doing a porn? And, you know, I had seen pornography for the first time at 13, and, you know, not. Not growing up in a home where, you know, there was a mom and dad, my. My. My grandmother and grandfather even, they slept in separate rooms. And it's like I didn't have a real. A visible representation of what intimacy was or looked like. And, you know, as Romans 12 talks about either being conformed by the world or transformed by the re your mind. And for me, the thought of what intimacy was or looked like was shown to me in the pages of a magazine when I was 13. And that the feelings and the emotions that were tied to that was like, man, in a way, if I replicate what I see, maybe I'll feel what I don't. And that took you a long time.
- [13:05]
A
To figure that out. Like, you didn't think that at the time. You know, you're very wise now, looking back that you're able to identify this is why the building blocks happened in that.
- [13:17]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, this is like, you know. Yeah, this is a, you know, 11 years removed from it. You know, counseling. Yeah, yeah, working, like, working in the mental health space myself. But, yeah, I mean, there. There's these. These building blocks for, you know, how you see the world. And it's like. I mean, that's essentially what my book is about. Like, if you believe a lie to be true, well, you will live as if that lie is truth, and you will incorporate that lie into your worldview, and that impacts the way that you Interact with people the way that you see yourself, the way that you see life, the way you see God, the way you see everything. Wow. And yeah, man, I was just, I was this broken kid that just wanted to be loved. I wanted to be needed and known. And I, it was just this, like this catastrophe of collateral damage and collateral, like bad decision after bad decision.
- [14:14]
A
Perfect storm.
- [14:15]
B
And. Yeah, and, and I think like the dangerous thing is that, you know, once I did one film and I got, you know, my, my manager like 2006. Different world on 2006. My manager's like, you did, you did a porn. Like, we can't, we can't represent you. You know, we, like, we can't, we don't want to be tied to you, you know, your likeness, you know, we, we, we can't. I, you know, I think a lot of you, but. Sorry. And then all of a sudden, you know, as a, then a 22 year old, I believed, well, you know, the only thing that is logical, the only thing that I can do is continue doing what I did that got, that got me into this mess. Which is, you know, is like the worst thinking ever. Continue doing the thing that like created, you know, this catastrophe in your life.
- [15:01]
A
But very logical outside of the Christian worldview. What you did was very logical. And the headhunters, you call them, as they came up to, you know, to recruit you in the restaurant. Yeah, it sounds very much like human trafficking.
- [15:14]
B
Oh, I would say this, you know, again, I use this language like being very much entrenched in this work on the other side. But a lot of people ask me regarding pornography, like, does force fraud or coercion, which is how someone would define trafficking, does that exist within the porn industry? I said, no, it doesn't exist. It's completely dependent. Wow. So they're synonymous. And then I've never met a person that was in the industry that was not trafficked. There's not a person that I knew that was, that was a long tenured person that was in the industry that wasn't doing, you know, escorting, that wasn't doing all this stuff. And yeah, I mean, we can get into the weeds of that to the, to the extent that you would want. But it's like, yeah, man, like those headhunters, they were being compensated by an agent where they would find someone. Even the conversation with the agent. So, you know, they, they said, hey, do you want to meet with our agent if you want to do a film? And I meet with the agent, the first question he asked me is, how did I grow up, AKA do I come from a broken home? Is there brokenness in your life that I can use as ammunition to manipulate you with my word so that you will do what I want you to do? Like, are you a broken vessel that I can extract value from so that I can manipulate you? And you know, can I frame porn in a way that, you know, okay, you want to be an actor, you want to be, you know, whatever. Well, in pornography they're moving towards like parodying movies so you can use those talents. You seem like you're a great actor, you're a good looking kid, you want to be famous, you want to make money. Well, this might not be mainstream acting, but maybe you can be a star in this world, you know, so like just taking, you know, innocent questions and manipulating a broken person to get them to do what you want, you know, that's in the, you know, is as broken as it is, man. It's not far removed from the stuff you would see in the some of the darkest places in the world, man.
- [17:21]
A
And the fact that they, that very first gig, they picked you up in a town car to take you to the shoot, that makes one, one more level of difficulty for you to back out. You don't even have your own car there.
- [17:33]
B
Yeah, I mean it's, it's almost like, you know, I, I get there, but I mean even like, I would say like, even like back up to that. It's like, okay, the first thing we need you to do is you're gonna get a full plan, full panel STD and AIDS test. They're like, you're a good looking, glad you like you. You probably like, you know, you've probably hooked up with a few girls. Like, would it hurt you to like get, get tested? I'm like, okay, you know, I've been pretty promiscuous like in college, you know, probably not, not a bad idea. So I get that. And that's kind of like, you know, your work permit. So you got it, you have to, you have to have an, a new test every depends on what company you're working for. Some, some Companies require a 14 day test where it can't be older than 14 days. The oldest test you can have like 28 days. But this is, you have to go get a test and then like to your point, they pick you up in a, in this town car. It's like, oh, we're going to take care of you. Like, don't worry about where the address is, we'll pick you up at this time. And then we'll, you know, we'll, we'll drop you off after you're done. And then you get there, and then, you know, you get there and it's like, well, this sign, this, this is how you get paid. Well, again, in retrospect, I did not read it. I just signed where, you know, here's the highlighted portions. Don't worry about reading it. Just sign here. And this is how you get paid. But what was I signing? I was signing away. I was saying, hey, I'm going to be an independent contractor that's going to be compensated a one time fee. And what they're going to get is they're going to get 100% rights to any audio, video or sound that was recorded that day. And they have the right to partition it and sell it to as many third parties or, you know, for as long as they want. And there's no limit on how many people own this. So what happens is you do one scene that all of a sudden, you know, my likeness ends up on sex toys, on dating websites, on billboards. And all of a sudden like people are asking like, oh, are you getting royalties? Royalties do not exist in the porn industry because you are not a person, you're a product. So it's like you, you know, so it's like you, you, you get paid, you know, $500 for that day and they're going to get, you know, they're going to use all that stuff. So that's how that, that was day one.
- [19:50]
A
Day one. And your story is, gets so much worse after day one. That's what's wild. That's what's wild. So let me ask you, remove your 12 years REM removed of this.
- [20:08]
B
Yeah.
- [20:08]
A
12 years.
- [20:08]
B
Yeah.
- [20:09]
A
So this month, do you still see, what, what was your name?
- [20:13]
B
Yeah, Rocco Reed.
- [20:14]
A
Do you still see Rocco? I mean, does that ever come up?
- [20:19]
B
Well, I would say there, there's not a day that goes by that I don't get some kind of notification of like someone trying to abuse my likeness. You know, it's like I, I have a really great team that, you know, we, we had to work really hard to get my imbd, like changed because it said, it didn't say like, you know, Joshua Broom, AKA like it was like, your name is Rocker Reed, also known as Joshua Broom. And you know, they were, it was just crazy. But I think, and, and I, I think there's just like really beautiful parallel to, to kind of wrap your head around where, you know, think about a troll on social media. Would Will. Do they ever have a profile picture? If they do, it's something obscure, and their username is always something random. Why? If I can remove myself from, like, who I'm identifying as, I can. I can operate in a behavior that's. That's different or apart from who I actually am. So in the porn industry, you. That from the jump. Okay, well, you're not going to go by Joshua Broom? It's like. Well, all the. Yeah. All the people that say, but I love my job. I love my job. Well, if you love it so much, why do you want to be removed from what you do? Why do you want to go by this, you know, this. This pseudonym? Because you're more willing to compromise. Because Joshua Broom wouldn't do these things, but maybe this other person would.
- [21:44]
A
Yeah, I. I think that's such a fascinating part of your story. Because when we think about the Bible and we think about God changing names, Abram, Abraham, Jacob, Israel, we think about Saul to Paul, Simon, Peter, that the name going backwards and taking your name away from you, the opposite of what God has done is what the enemy has done through that porn industry. We're going to take your name away from you so that you'll be more likely to go down the sinister road and then. Which we can get to in a minute. To the bank teller. Yeah, it was that. The impactful moment was when your name came back to you.
- [22:26]
B
Yeah, I mean, so it's like, you know, at that point, you know, I'd been in the industry, you know, well over six years, and I thought, like, you know, you know, growing up as a kid, like, you know, food stamps and, you know, I got one, like, pair of basketball shoes a year. Like, my mom's amazing. But it's like this was. This was how I grew up. And I. And I believed, well, man, if I had a million dollars and, you know, every feeling of insecurity or feeling of, like, worthlessness would just melt away, and I would just be healed miraculously because there was an additional comma in my bank account. And then I. I made that money, and guess what? Nothing changed. And then I thought, well, if I win Performer of the year, that means that the studios and the fans attached to that industry and voted that I was the Guy got nominated four years in a row. And then in 2012, I won. I won Performer of the Year. And then, you know, this crazy as this is like this, I guess in. In retrospect, in the world that we live in today, it's not that crazy. But the the award show was, was aired live on Showtime. And you think, you know, you go up, you get this award and it's like, it's this huge deal and it's like, you made it. You're the guy. And I thought, man, if I won that award, like, that means I'm somebody.
- [23:54]
A
Yeah.
- [23:54]
B
You know, and. Yeah. And in a weird way, it was like I wanted so desperately to feel chosen because I felt like my dad didn't choose me my whole life and I won that award and that was the worst I ever felt.
- [24:14]
A
Why?
- [24:16]
B
It. Because it didn't make me feel like I thought I would. It was like, I won. That's awesome. But I still felt the same. And I was like, I, I thought like when I won that. That feeling like I was not worth anything would just go away. So when that didn't work, the anxiety that I had that, that I was trying to suppress was amplified. The depression that I already had, that I tried to suppress with a million things, it was deepened. And then, man, it's just like from that moment, like, you enter into like a three month period of my life where it couldn't have been darker. And I'm literally trying to sabotage my life and trying to do things. I was trying so hard to live my life in a way where it gave me the courage to end my life.
- [25:21]
A
How soon were you realizing I'm not getting the fulfillment I thought I was going to? I mean, are we talking about that, that night you go home with it?
- [25:29]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I had like, I had one of, like, I was in a suite at the Venetian. So they always had, you know, that was where the, the award show got place and took place. And like, I didn't go to the, There was an after party at somewhere. Didn't go. I had, I was being paid to like, sit in the VIP section. It's like, you know, people would pay. It's like, you know, if you, if you pay to be in the vip, VIP section or buy a bottle, it's like you'll, you'll have access to like these people. I didn't go. I, I just went up to my room and I just like looked myself in the mirror and I thought, man, it didn't work. And I don't think I realized that.
- [26:18]
A
That was the cat. That was like a catalyst for you. That's, that was like a game changer. Winning the performer of the year in the porn industry was. That was a game changer.
- [26:31]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, it was that, that was, that was one of the lowest moments of my life because it was almost like, you know, here's, here's this thing. I mean, it's like it beautiful in that again, this is having the wisdom to look back.
- [26:47]
A
Yeah.
- [26:48]
B
You know, Roman Romans 2, 4. Talks about God's love, his kindness, his patience that leads us into repentance and think in a way God loved me enough to give me everything that I thought that I wanted so that I would realize that it wouldn't fix me.
- [27:00]
A
Amen. Yeah.
- [27:03]
B
So it's like, you know, sitting there, you know, looking myself in the mirror and then, you know, just grab the bottle and drink it until I, you know, had enough to like pass out. And then that's, that's how, you know. Yeah. Was getting calls and stuff like that and just wanted nothing to nothing, you know, didn't want to be around anyone. And it's like, man, I, I love and respect you enough to, you know, like, share this part of my story because, you know, you know, keep it, you know, ditch it up to you. But, you know, things got super dark for me really quickly. There was a. Because I, I would do like bartending, like shirtless bartending for you know, like different, like fashion designers and stuff like that. And they would pay me ridiculous amounts of money to like come to, to Paris or, or wherever they were into like the bartend parties or just like to hang out. And soon after that, I did one of those and I got, I got drugged and sexually assaulted by, you know, the, the owners of a well known designer. And after that happened, it was almost like number one, it's your. Of course this happened, you know, it's your fault for being there. This is the way I was thinking. And then I was like, you know, this is almost good because like, this is a legitimate reason for me to end my life, you know, And I couldn't, couldn't bring myself to do it. I. There was, you know, there was a bottle of pills that I had that I knew, you know, I looked up as like, if I take X amount, that's going to do the trick. And I would put it on the table, I'd line them up, I'd get the water, I'd look at them, and I just couldn't do it. And that happened probably 15 times. And then I thought, okay, well what, what do I need to do to continue to sabotage my life? And I thought, well, you know, I. This has already happened to me. And then doing porn is the only thing I can do. So maybe, you know, I, I keep getting because, like, in. In the time that I was in the industry, you were getting offers from, like, gay companies. It's like, well, if. If you will sign a contract with us, you know, name your price, we'll give you, you know, a million dollars of same, like, whatever. Like, you just tell us. And I thought, like, well, maybe if I do that, maybe if I. After I do that, maybe then I would have the confidence to end my life and I would be essentially removed from the industry in that. Because, like, in 2006, seven, eight, like, in this time period, like, girls would not work with guys who did gay porn studios. Like, straight studios would not hire guys that did gay porn. There was this, like, feeling of, you know, in that industry, in both industries really, people were dying of hiv. There was this, you know, this. This feeling towards the gay side of the industry. So I accepted a contract and I did a film. And then after doing it, I thought, okay, you know, this. There's this movie. Gosh, forget what it is. It's a Christian movie where this girl, she's, like, working at the brothel, redeeming love. She's. She's working at the brothel. She meets a guy they had. They start this great life together. And then she just gets this itch to go back into chaos. She goes and works with the brothel one more time and feels disgusting. And she's in this river and she's literally. She has a rock and she's just scrubbing her body with it to the point where she's, like, about to bleed. And she's trying to scrub off something that she feels, but that feeling's not on her skin. And that's how I felt. And then I'm like, man, maybe this. This is. This is going to be it. And I stay in that industry for a few weeks, and I did a few films like that. And then after I'd done, like, the last one, I'm like, okay, like, this is it. But then I just need one more. One more person to agree with me. You know, I. Because, you know, because I think it's in. Sometimes when we superimpose our brokenness on to intimacy and love, what we can believe is, like, intimacy is compliance, not connection. And we can try to manipulate another person to agree with us. And, you know, with. With bad theology, we could say, well, you should surrender or submit to me because I have authority in this hierarchy of you biblically. But what. But what's happening is I'm. I'm not wanting you to submit to me as a godly husband. I'M wanting to you, I'm wanting you to comply with me. So I'm trying to use my emotions to manipulate you, to get you to do something. So I feel some sort of way and I say all that to say in that thinking drove me into that bank. In that, in that bank. In that, in that bank, I had a check. And on the memo of the check, it said, you know what, what I was being compensated for. It was clear. A lot of times directors would do that, almost being antagonistic, you know, be very grotesque in the memo of the check. So normally I wouldn't take this and hand it to a teller. I would just, you know, Dropbox, acm, whatever.
- [32:47]
A
Okay, let me, let me pause you, Joshua, because this is, this is such a crazy part of your story.
- [32:53]
B
Yeah.
- [32:54]
A
And to give context, because I, I, I know I'm, I'm learning new things today, for sure, but I know a lot of your story. I've heard you say it when we're, when we're, you know, on the stage together, and I've heard you say it on different podcasts. But part of this manipulation that you're talking about, and you're in that, the gay industry for two weeks, you said, well, part of that manipulation, like, you don't, you didn't sign up when the, when the headhunters came into the restaurant. It didn't start that way. What? It wasn't like, hey, hey, buddy, do you want to do gay porn? No, it's just levels, right? It's these levels. They build you up. And you mentioned that they say things like, what's the extent of what you would be willing to do?
- [33:34]
B
Oh, yeah. So it's like, so when you get in the industry, you, you have a no list, Right. So these are, these are things that I don't want to do or people that I choose not to work with and, you know, but with, but the way it works is this, this is like four guys also, but predominantly for girls, where it's like, there's things that you're not willing to do, and time will pass, and then, you know, the girl will begin to not be as popular as she once was. And then the agent goes to the studio and auction off this thing where it's like, you know, she hasn't done this, this sex act before, and how much would you pay for her to do it? It's like, okay, top bidder, 30,000. Okay, perfect. And then the agent goes back to the girl and says, you'll never believe it. Out of nowhere, this studio Says they want to give you $30,000 if you're willing to do that thing that you've never done. And I know you said that you didn't want to do that, but just let me tell you this. You'll be relevant again. People will start booking you again. Your name will rise, and you'll be a star again. So if you just do this thing, this just one time, and they're going to pay you X amount of dollars. So in the porn industry, your no list is not really no, because you don't really have a no. If you believe that you're not someone who does porn. You are a porn star. Um, you. You know, it's like my only attachment to worth is I sell myself for sex. So if that's true, if that's the only thing that I can say yes to, what can I truly say no to? Nothing. So my. My, my no loses its validity. So I would say in the porn industry, your no doesn't mean no. Your no means how much.
- [35:28]
A
Wow. So then fast forward. You're suicidal. You've lined these pills up. You know the, the exact amount of pills to take to end your life. You get. You even have the glass of water to take the pills. And you said you did that like 15 times.
- [35:47]
B
Yeah.
- [35:47]
A
And this is the state you're in.
- [35:49]
B
Yeah.
- [35:50]
A
I mean, you spent two weeks in the, in the gay industry. You've done. You've passed all. You've surpassed all the no's that you once said you wouldn't go this far. You surpass it all. You've won performer of the year. Did you win that? How many times did you win that?
- [36:04]
B
So I got nominated for it four times, but I won it once.
- [36:07]
A
Okay, so you're suicidal. You've won the top award. And this. Now we go. Now you're going to cash a check.
- [36:15]
B
Yeah.
- [36:16]
A
Rocco is going to cash a check. You haven't even heard. Joshua's gone. Joshua's dead.
- [36:20]
B
Yeah. And, yeah, 100%. And it's like I had, you know, an LLC. You know, it was like. I don't remember what it was, but. Yeah. So like, Joshua Broome had. Had no place at the table.
- [36:32]
A
Yeah.
- [36:32]
B
And. And I'd say, I mean, we can dig into this in, in a. A little bit if you want, but it's like, for me, like when. When I got fired by. By my manager, you know, it was one thing, but, you know, being. Being from a small town, it only takes one person to know one thing about your life, for everyone to know everything. About your life. Yeah, you know, got through the grapevine that, you know, I done that. My, My uncle heard at work, and then he went and told my mom. And then my mom calls me and, you know, you know, being from the south, it's like, how much of your name gets used is how much trouble you're in. So I hear, you know, Joshua Luke Broom, like, tell me the truth right now. Like, did you do this? And. And I had to tell my mom. I did. I did do one of those films, but for me, I wasn't sure about much. Like Granger, I wasn't sure about much as a kid, but something I was super sure of was that I was my mother's son. If I needed something, she was there. No matter how hard she had to work. If I wanted, you know, somehow, some way, I don't know how she did it, but I always, I went to, you know, basketball camp at University of South Carolina every year I was in high school. I don't know how she made that stuff happen because, like, we were struggling, but she was always there for me, always protected me, you know, anything I needed, she was there. So I was, I was certain that I was my mother's son. If I didn't know anything else, I was that. And then when my mom was hurt, you know, and I told her, yeah, I did that. And then that's when Satan amplified a lie that I believed about myself. Because when I hurt her, would I hurt the only person that had never hurt me? There was a little voice in my head that's like, see, you're exactly who you thought you were. Like, that's why your dad didn't want you. You're no good. Of course, of course you did that. Of course you hurt her. Of course you made that decision. This is not something you did. This is who you are. You're exactly who you thought you were. And, man, and that caused me to believe another lie, that I disqualified myself from being her son. Like, what, what good could I do in her life?
- [38:54]
A
The only thing you knew for sure, now you're disqualified from even that.
- [38:59]
B
Yeah. So I, So she was, she was calling and texting me, but I didn't answer because what am I going to say? So it's, it's either, you know, I, I, I wallow in my shame or I run from it, you know, or, you know, I, I certainly wasn't going to own up to it at that time. So. To your point, I'm in this bank, I'm walking in with this check, and What I wanted, it was. I wanted the bank teller to take the check, to look at it and to see the memoir and to tell me, you are as disgusting as you think you are.
- [39:36]
A
What was the memo?
- [39:37]
B
You are.
- [39:37]
A
What was the memo?
- [39:38]
B
I mean, it was. It was like a. A title of a movie. I mean, it was clear that I was being compensated for sex, you know, Gotcha, gotcha. You know, so it was. It was clear that I was in a porn movie and I was being paid for my actions in it. But I just wanted, like, I wanted to heard. To agree with me so that I could do what I wanted to do. And she was unshaken by it, looked at it, you know what, you know, what's your account number? Swipe the card, you know, deposited the check. And then I'm dumbfounded. You know, I'm already shaking, pale, like, ready to die, but terrified. And then she came around the corner and said, joshua, are you okay? Joshua, how can I help you? Let me get you some help. Because it was obvious I was not okay. And that was the first time I had heard Joshua come from someone's lips talking to me in well over a year. And it is almost like it. It woke me up, you know, it woke me up out of this. This plausible reality that he created based on shame and hurt and pain and. And I felt guilty. And I felt guilty because I was withholding from my mom the thing that she more than deserved. She just wanted to know that her son was okay. Like, in this industry, you know, to this day, there's 42 people that I was friends with that have died of suicide or overdose. 42.
- [41:26]
A
I've seen interviews with Alan. It was like in the 30s. And so it's going up. It's going up now. That is unbelievable to me that. Yeah, that's one of the craziest things. I will never. I told you this in Jackson Hole. I will never forget that. You said that over 40 people you knew in that industry are now dead. So much so that you said if you watch a porn today, there's a really good chance especially the girl is dead from suicide.
- [41:56]
B
And what's. You know, and what's so twisted about it is, like, in the porn industry, when someone dies that way, they make a compilation of all their scenes and they try to monetize the thing in which they caused their demise. Yeah, man. So it's like it. That's. That's the. The reality of the industry. But, yeah, so it's like she came across, you know, she came around the corner. And you know, God, it's like.
- [42:23]
A
It's not like God spoke to you that day in the bank. Oh, you know, that's what it feels like to me. God said, yeah, you okay, Joshua?
- [42:31]
B
Anyway, and what I love is like, number one, you know, like, our names have meaning. It's like Joshua literally means Yahweh, salvation. You know, it's like, what a name.
- [42:40]
A
What a name.
- [42:42]
B
But what it did.
- [42:43]
A
People across the Jordan River. That's you, man. That's. That's your namesake.
- [42:47]
B
Yeah, man. Yeah, like to. To, you know, to. To rock a zak, you know, to. To be strong and courageous, you know.
- [42:55]
A
To my brothers Tyler and Parker. And I own this apparel company called Yi Yi. It's a lifestyle brand. We have yiyi.com. but, you know, I'm not good at that kind of technical stuff. I don't build websites. I don't take credit card information. That's where Shopify comes in. They handle all of our customer checkout. They make it super easy, and they do it for millions of companies. It's not just us. Small ones, big ones, and all the ones in between. So if you're thinking like, hey, this is the year, you know, I'm thinking 2025 is the year I want to finally start that business. Consider Shopify for your checkout needs. So upgrade your business and get the same checkout that we use at Yiyi with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period@shopify.com grainger all lowercase. Go to shopify.com grainger to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com grainger if you like the content in this podcast, hey, consider sharing it with a friend. Subscribing to this podcast, giving it a good review if you want, and commenting on the YouTube page. These are all things that help this podcast reach more people. If you want to get a hold of me personally, you can go to cameo.com grangersmith I can make you a video message for anything that you want. It could be happy birthday, happy anniversary. Maybe just a word of encouragement. Go to cameo.com grangersmith but, you know.
- [44:12]
B
So after that, so like, I. I was like, man, I gotta call my mom. And I call her, and, man, she lit me up, you know, she. She chewed me out. Cause she was hurt, you know. But then after she. After she was done, she said to me everything that I didn't think she ever would. She's like, you'll always be my son. I'll always love you. And I plea and I Beg you, please leave this place. You're so, you're worth so much more. You're so much more capable than what, what you're doing. You know, you're worth more than the way you're living. And I, I listened to her and I, I left. And it's like, mo, like so many, like so many people get my story wrong in that they're like, oh, this guy, you know, left porn to become a preacher. And it's like, man, when I left porn, I was still so far from God.
- [45:06]
A
Right, right, right.
- [45:07]
B
He, he, he was obviously, you know, interceding on my behalf and beginning to work. But when I left the porn industry, there was a two year period where, you know, the way that I describe it, I tried to put enough good dirt on my bad dirt so I didn't look dirty. You know, I, I started working in the health and fitness space and it's like, you know, essentially I did the same thing I was doing in the porn industry. You know, I, I like, okay, how can I become the most successful? It's like, okay, find a great mentor, get a, get a bunch of credentials, find the best gym to work at and then, you know, work really hard and become the best in my field and make a lot of money. And I did that.
- [45:47]
A
Is this the season where you deleted social media and covered tattoos and.
- [45:51]
B
Okay, yeah, yeah. So in the middle of this, it's like, you know, I'm, I'm. Because I was never, like, I didn't have any value. But I thought maybe, you know, the things in which my mom instilled in me was, you know, to love people well and to work really hard. Like, my mom has an incredible work ethic and it's like, man, if, like all I know, like, whether I'm eating, you know, chicken wings or, you know, playing pickleball or, you know, whatever it is, it's like, I want to win and I'm going to give it 110%. So it's like, okay, well, if I'm going to be, you know, in the health and fitness space, it's like, I want to, you know, become an expert in, you know, food. I want to, like, understand, you know, movement patterns, I want to understand exercise science, I want to understand programming. And then I just like dove into that and had a really great mentor and, you know, became really successful in that. But like, in the, in the middle of that, I just replaced one thing with another, you know, because I was trying to earn my worth and I thought if I did enough and had enough. I would feel as if I was enough.
- [46:53]
A
Right, right.
- [46:54]
B
And it, you know, it. It worked for a while because it, you know, the. The newness. Numb my pain. Until it didn't. And then two years into that, this girl comes strolling into the gym and, you know, decked out in Iowa, Hawkeye, cheerleading stuff, and. But she. She was the best athlete in the gym. You know, obviously she had a background in gymnastics, but she was the best athlete in the gym, but, you know, wasn't boastful, wasn't flirtatious, Didn't. Didn't hang around. Very introverted. Just came in, worked really hard, kept her head down and, like, left. But I was just fascinated with her. And then I asked her on a date, probably, you know, 10 times. She said. She said no in the most polite way. And she. She eventually said, well, before church on Sunday, I go for a long run, and if you want to meet me, you can meet me at this park. And I was like, I'll take whatever I can get, you know?
- [47:57]
A
Yeah.
- [47:57]
B
And I meet her at this park. And I was like, man, I was so fascinated with her. But then reality creeped into my mind. I'm like, remember who you are.
- [48:09]
A
And I'm like, the enemy was still talking to you.
- [48:12]
B
Yeah.
- [48:13]
A
You might have been two years removed from. From the hellhole, but you. The enemy was still speaking.
- [48:19]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [48:19]
A
You were still a sinner in need of a savior.
- [48:22]
B
Oh, yeah. And it's like, so, you know, we. We. Before our run even started, you know, I was like, hey, I. I just want to let you know this about me before, like, this even has the potential to become anything. I'm this kid that his daddy didn't want. And I've done a lot of stuff that I'm ashamed of. I've done pornography, and it's on the Internet for anyone to see and will probably always be there. And just so you know, I'm this really bad person. This is who I am. And, you know, she's, you know, hit with this jab to the nose of, like, something that she didn't expect to hear. So she was pretty taken back by it. But then I just saw the wheels turning, and we were kind of walking in silence, like, this very uncomfortable silence. And then she stopped and, like, gave me, know, this. This look, you know, she was an elementary school teacher, you know, so, like, she gave me, like, this look where, like, she was going to say something stern like, can't. Kind of planted her feet and said, hey. She said, hey, I want you to to know. I don't want to minimize your pain or negate anything you said, but I want you to know that you are not defined by the worst thing you've ever done. And you won't be defined by the greatest thing you'll ever do because there's an author of you, and it's not you.
- [50:05]
A
Incredible. Incredible.
- [50:09]
B
And I mean, just like, I. I mean, so, like. Like, anyone listening to this, like, if you're with us, like, in this story, it's like, I believe the absolute opposite of that.
- [50:20]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [50:22]
B
It's like, so, like, she was challenging, like, not only the way that I thought, she was challenging everything that I believe to be most true. Like, I make. I. I am defined by the worst thing I've done.
- [50:36]
A
Yeah.
- [50:36]
B
And I'm. I hope to be defined by the greatest thing I'll ever do. I'm hoping to do something great enough to cover up or overshadow the. The reality of what will never go away. And she. You know, and then she stopped. She's like, hey, like, do you know who God is? And I was like, I went. You know, I went to church a little bit as a kid, but, you know, maybe. Probably not. You know, she's like, well, I've been following Jesus since I was in the seventh grade. I'm not perfect by any means, but my life is based on a foundation that's built through my relationship with him. So what kind of food do you like? I was like, you are insane. Like, I thought I was crazy. Like, you're crazy, but, I mean, it was. I love, like, thinking about, like, Colossians 4, like, you know, Paul's, you know, imprisoned for preaching the gospel, praying for opportunities to preach the gospel, praying to walk with wisdom towards outsiders, you know, thinking, hey, let our speech be gracious and season with salt so we might know how we ought to answer each person, you know? I love this book, Master Plan of Evangelism. Robert E. Coleman. He says, most people are not looking for an explanation, they're looking for a demonstration. Um, so thinking about, like, the way in which she responded to me, it stopped me in my tracks, and it created this curiosity in me. It's like, how in the heck can she respond to what I said like that? And maybe, just maybe, is what. Is what she's saying true? So we. We walked and talked, and then she invited. And she invited me to church, and then we went to church. And I was like, I'm not sure about church, but I'm sure about wherever she's going, you know, I'm following her.
- [52:42]
A
Sure.
- [52:43]
B
And I walked into. I walked into this church in Raleigh, North Carolina. You know, not expecting much, and, you know, I'll give you the abbreviated version, but I walked in and, you know, I was expecting a legalistic presentation of how. How far I was from God and how I would never get close to him because, you know of who I am, and, you know, that was what I believed to be true. And I heard this, you know, this man, this old man that reminded me of my grandfather with tattoos on his arms, and he was wearing jeans. And he told this. This story out of 2nd Samuel, chapter 9, about Mephibosheth and how David had invited Mephibosheth into his kingdom. And Mephibosheth, you know, being the son of Jonathan, he was expecting death. And that's why he was in this place called Lo Debar. You know, this. This place of no pasture, thinking that, you know, I need to hide because if I'm found, historically, because, you know, my. My. My dad was Jonathan. My father was Saul. And now David had been chosen, anointed to be king. That meant that, you know, I'm. I'm on the outside looking in, and anyone that was attached to a family that was of a former kingdom or a potential, you know, challenger of the kingdom, that person was hunted down and eradicated. They were killed. So he thought, like, my head is on the platter. And then David invites him to his kingdom after he's been hiding. He thinks, okay, doomsday, you know, today's the day. And David instead says, hey, I'm invite you into my kingdom. You know, I want you to. I want. I want you. I want to give back to you your grandfather's land, which isn't just any land. It was part of Canaan. So he's inviting him into the kingdom of God, saying, you're gonna be part of my kingdom, and you'll have a seat at my table not for a day, not for a week, but forever. And, you know, this is a beautiful picture of grace. You know, mercy being. You know, the withholding of what we do deserve. Grace being this unmarried favor that we don't deserve. We see this and in Second Samuel, chapter nine, verse eight. But Fel Chef responds to this by saying, who am I'm but a dead dog. I don't deserve this. Don't. Essentially what I heard and the reason that part of the Bible comes so alive to me, because essentially he's saying, don't you know who I am? Yeah, don't you know who My Father is. Don't you know the sin that I'm attached to?
- [55:20]
A
Yeah.
- [55:22]
B
And then he read Hebrews 12, 2. He read that, you know, with joy set before him, that he endured the cross, you know, scorning our shame. He's seated down on the right hand of God. But it's like something about joy. Just, like, explosion happened in my head. I was like, okay, so, like, I'm. I'm with you. You're saying that Jesus, born of a virgin, fully God, fully man, lived a perfect life, face temptation, never sinned, goes to the cross. But he's God, so of course he's obedient to the Father, but he's omniscient. So he's all knowing, why would he have joy in his heart as he's going to the cross? Where does joy come from? And then it hit me. He loved me. He had joy in his heart because he loved me. And I was like. And yes, I mean, like, when. When that hit me, I fell to my face and just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. And when I stood up, I made a decision that, you know, I. I didn't have my theology perfect, but I. I believed that Jesus was real and he really. He was a real person. He really walked the earth, and he knows me, and he loved me enough to die for me. And he rose from the dead on the third day. And if I place my faith in him, then. Then not only am I saved from hell, but I'm reunited to the Father that I've never had.
- [57:16]
A
Wow.
- [57:18]
B
And, you know, that was. That was 10 years ago. You know, that was. That was 10 easters ago. And, you know, and that girl, her name's Hope, which is pretty cool. And we've been married for nine years, and we have four boys. And, like, God is taking me on this journey that, you know, like, there's. There's like, my version of what, you know, Ephesians 3:20, could be. But, like, God, you know, he far exceeded anything I could hope, dream, or imagine because we're just being loved by him is more than enough. But the fact that he would allow me to be man, that he would allow me to be a husband to a person like her and to experience the love that. That we collectively have shared. Seeing our four kids born and look at me and. And call me dad and me provide safety to them. And it's not like, it's not better than anything I ever hoped. Like, I would have never had the guts to dream of the life that I have today. And, like, all the stuff that I get to do, like, that's amazing, but just that, you know, like, do you.
- [59:01]
A
With your four boys now, how often do you kind of think about that? Think about a moment where you're talking to them and you just say, son, I'm so proud of you.
- [59:13]
B
Oh, dude, I. I mean, yeah, yesterday it's like we, we were out, you know, just playing, you know, we. We bought like a T ball set. And it's like, you know, I bought them like legitimate, like aluminum bats, you know, got some, you know, nothing crazy, just like some Eastons, you know. And so Canon is six and Lincoln, he's about to be five. And so we were out there hitting T ball, you know, he's like, you know, had his, had his. Like, Canon's a perfectionist. So he's like, you know, do I have my feet in the right place, dad? Do I have my elbow up, dad? You know, and then, you know, he's, you know, smoking him and just looks at me and like, it just, it's just such a reminder to me where like, you know, I have a tendency to, you know, want to give them the world, you know, to, to buy them stuff, to do stuff, you know, but the thing that they want most is me. And you know, like the look in his eyes where I'm like, buddy, you know, I'm so proud of you. You did such a good job. And, and just to see his eyes just melt because that's what his heart wants. And it's like just, you know, loves to draw and stuff like that. It's like every, you know, I, I travel, you know, sometimes every week. And you know, he always like, will draw like a little, you know, he'll draw something wild, but then he'll put, you know, cute, dad. Love you, Canon. Like that. I'll never get, you know, tired of that. It just, I mean, I remember like when he was born, like, you know, never been around babies or, or had been a long time. And he was born and you know, he's born, he's all like slimy and cone headed and you know, ugly and it's like. And I'm freaking out because like, so Canon was so Hope's water broke during a CrossFit cat during a CrossFit class. Like, she's doing like wall balls and deadlifts and her water breaks and I'm coaching the class and I freak out, you know, and I'm like, what do I, you know, what do I do? She's like, we're gonna, you know, we just bought our first home. And, like, we, you know, we went there and it's like, stuff was barely unpacked, and she. She had sticky notes for me. Here's a bag that I packed three months ago. Your. Your toothbrush is here. Get this, get that. And then we go there and we go to the hospital. And because her water broke and she was dilated enough, they kept her at the hospital. But it was 24 hours later that he was born. So I'm on edge for 24 hours.
- [61:56]
A
Yeah.
- [61:57]
B
So at. At 4:21, he was almost like a stoner baby. So it's 4. He was. He was born on 7 11. 4, 420, almost 421. He, you know, 421 in the morning, he's born, and I'm just like. I hadn't been asleep. I'm just like, you know, out of my mind. And the nurse is holding him, and, you know, she's wiping him off, lays him in, you know, the warmer. She's like, you can touch him. And I'm like, you know, oh, I'm gonna touch him or my hands clean, you know, And I. Oh, when I start to reach in his direction, he grabs my finger. I just started to sob. And in my spirit, I heard God say, I love you more than that. And you said, like, part of that. So that's why we. We named him Canon. Like, Canon in Hebrew means measuring stick. So it's like, for us, he's the measure of God's grace, you know? But I'll never. I'll never forget that. Like, when I. When I recall it, I always get emotional because it's like, it. I feel like, you know, I'm still, you know, it's still there, you know? Yeah. But just the. The joy of being all of their dads, you know, Abel just turned one a few weeks ago, and it's just like, you know, just started walking, and it just, like, you know, it. It. It's. It's just wild to see them. Them to get. Get older and, you know, be able to walk and then, you know, then say certain things and, you know, tie their shoes.
- [63:59]
A
Yeah, man. And you're able to see that. You're able now because you were loved.
- [64:05]
B
Yeah.
- [64:05]
A
And you were loved by God, and this is your testimony, and it's actually mine, too. And it's so many people that you're. Because you're loved, regardless of what you've done.
- [64:17]
B
Yeah.
- [64:18]
A
And regardless of all the bad things you've done. And, hey, you don't have to Be in the porn industry to be a sinner in need of a savior.
- [64:26]
B
Yeah.
- [64:27]
A
In fact, the Bible says that all of us are sin and fall short of the glory of God. So your story is. Is as dramatic as it is. It's not any worse than the man down the street that's. That's relying on his own righteousness and he's walking old ladies across the street all the time.
- [64:44]
B
Yeah.
- [64:44]
A
To God it's the same.
- [64:46]
B
Yeah. And I. And I love that. It's like. I mean, I. I love, you know, the understanding from, like, Romans 1, where, like, God has made Himself evident in his creation. And then Romans 3. 23, it's like, you know, that we've all sinned. And then Romans 6. 23, well, the wages of that sin is death. But then, like, you go back, like Romans 5. Eight, it's like, man, while knowing the worst thing you've ever done. Jesus willingly with the cross and died for you.
- [65:12]
A
Yeah.
- [65:13]
B
Not. What? Not. Not in hopes of you would become perfect. Why? Knowing the worst of you.
- [65:18]
A
Yeah.
- [65:18]
B
Jesus chose you. And it's like. And I. That's why I love Romans, where it's like, when you get to, like, Romans 12:1, it's like, therefore, you know. You know, it's like, because of all this, in view of God's mercy, like, you know, a reasonable response is for us to live as a living sacrifice, you know, not to be conformed by the world, but transformed by the renewal of our mind. Why? So that we can discern what is God's good, pleasing and perfect will. You know, what. What have you. If I understand, you know, Romans 11:39. Right. By him, for him, through him, all things. Uh, so he. He. He is the. The creator, the initiator and the sustainer of all things, including me. But he's withheld his wrath from me. Not because I deserve it, because he loves me that much, and because I've been saved from his wrath.
- [66:08]
A
Yeah.
- [66:08]
B
By his love. Because of Jesus blood. A reasonable response is for me to act like it. Not to be. Not to be perfect, but to be aware that there is a God that loves me that much and chooses to express Himself through me, through our stories, so that we can tell people of. Of His Majesty. You know, I love, like. Yeah, I had these, like, really ugly wounds, but I've got these really cool scars that point to an amazing healer.
- [66:42]
A
Yeah. Amen. Romans 5. 9. Since therefore we've been justified by his blood, how much more will we be saved by Him?
- [66:50]
B
Yeah.
- [66:51]
A
From the wrath of God, from the wrath of God that's so often lost in American Christianity. We're saved from the wrath of God by the blood of Christ. Once enemies, now adopted sons.
- [67:05]
B
Yeah.
- [67:06]
A
With an inheritance to the kingdom. When you know that when. When you've grasped that you're loved, therefore you do. Now, you could love your boys and you could. You could also tell them, boys, I will fail you. Yeah, I love you, but I will fail you. But God will not.
- [67:23]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I. I love that. You know, I. I love.
- [67:28]
A
Amazing.
- [67:29]
B
Yeah. Yes. I. I mean, and just the, you know, I love the fact that, you know, my. My boys, like, especially Canon, and sometimes Lincoln will travel with me. And it's like. It's just. It's just. I don't know, man. It's just like, you know, when. When they're at, you know, at. On Sunday, we're at church, if someone's asking them like, well, you know, what. What is. You know, what does your. Your mom and dad do? And he's like, my daddy teaches the Bible. You know?
- [68:03]
A
Amazing.
- [68:04]
B
It's just. Yeah, man, it's just like, I just love my family so much. And it's just like. And it's. It's not about like, oh, like, Dad's like, you know, did this or does that, or he's on, you know, but like, my wife will, like, send me pictures of, like, I was doing something and it was on tv, and it's like, picture, like, our little boy, like, hugging the tv, you know, it's just like, wow. It's just. It's just so cool, man. But at the end of the day, it's like, that's what I want for other people, you know, that's why. That's why I tell my story with so much vulnerability and openness. It's like, man, my hope is for you. Not that you'll live rightly, that my hope is that you experience the. The abundance that Jesus Christ died and offers to you.
- [68:52]
A
Amen.
- [68:53]
B
Because so many, like, we just need to realize, you know, like John 10:10, you know, it's like the enemy wants to steal, kill and destroy, but Jesus, he's wanting to offer you abundant life. And what that's going to look like, you know, number one, it's going to start with understanding, you know, our biggest problem is sin. And the only solution to that is Jesus Christ. And like. And from that, it's like, man, there's things that. John 15. There's going to be things that need to be cut and pruned from your life. And that Might be seasonal, but it might be, you know, it might be friends, it might be habits, whatever it is. But if I am committed to God's word and committed to doing what it says, what's going to happen is there's going to be things in my life that press against me. And I'm either going to allow those things to be shed and moved away from me because I'm going to believe that God knows better than I do, or I'm going to allow those things to conform me to something less than. And I'm going to feel empty and broken and dissatisfied, disconnected and frustrated and. And I'm going to experience anxiety and depression. And, you know, I'm going to say, well, what, you know, what am I supposed to do with my life? You know, I feel so dissatisfied, you know, and I'm going to try to medicate. It's like God's saying, you're over complicating things. It's like, love me and trust that my word is enough. And it's like, you know, when I'm. When I'm looking at John 14:15, it's not say, you know, if you. If you love me, you obey my commandments. It's not saying, hey, if you don't do what I say, I'm going to withhold my love from you, right? Or it's not, if you don't do what I'm saying, I'm going to. I'm going to come down with this iron fist like man, if you understand that I'm a loving father and the. The most important thing about you is that you're my son. And if that is the posture in which you have in your life, what you're going to experience is life the way I intended it to be for you. And that doesn't mean there's not going to be trials and tribulation and pain and hurt. Now, John 16:33 is my favorite verse. You know, I've told you all these things so that in me you can have peace, and in this world you will not. Maybe you will have tribulation, you will have trials, you have trouble, people will hurt, you will fail. There's going to be chaos that happens that you don't understand. It's going to hurt like heck sometimes. But you can take heart. You can be of good courage. Why? Because he's overcome the world, not you. Courage is not found in you. Peace is not found in you, it's found in him. If you keep going back to him over and over and over and over, Again, you'll find what you're looking for. And that's what I want. You know, it's like, I spend a lot of my time telling people, hey, this is how you stop watching porn. Or this is how you remove, you know, behaviors from your life. Or, like, when I'm working with, you know, sports teams, you know, this is how you optimize your capacity. All of it is found in the same place. Understand, your life is not about you. You were created to be connected to a creator, and the only way that you can do that is to surrender and submit your life to Jesus. And then from that, you know, it gets slightly more complicated. But if you start there, you'll find everything you're looking for.
- [72:04]
A
Wow. So, Joshua, I was speaking in at this men's conference thing in Alabama several months ago, and I opened it up to Q and A afterward, and then I said, I will stay here until the last person leaves if you have more questions. And so, inevitably, that when I do that, there are more people that have questions that are a little more private, that don't want to ask in front of everyone.
- [72:29]
B
Sure.
- [72:30]
A
So I noticed that there, you know, this line forms, and people are like, you know, it's. It's. I lost. I lost my aunt. She died of cancer. I'm struggling. And the next guy comes up and he says, you know, lost my job, and I'm struggling. I noticed there was one guy, he was a freshman at Auburn, and he was, like, making sure everyone got in front of him so he could be the last one in line. And then it comes up at the very end. There's three guys, all freshmen at Auburn, and two of them are asking me how they could better evangelize the college community. You know, give some practical ideas. And then they start to walk away. And then one peels off, and he says, can I. Can I tell you something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other two go away. He goes. And he kind of looks around the room that now is empty. Everyone's gone, even the church, that it's cleared out. And he said, I'm addicted to watching porn, and I don't know what to do, and I need help. I mean, he was desperate.
- [73:30]
B
Yeah.
- [73:31]
A
What do you. What do you say to that kid?
- [73:33]
B
Yeah, man. I would. I would tell him that, man, you have a father in heaven that loves you so much, and I'm so sorry that that is what you're wrestling with. But number one, I'm so proud of you for saying it out loud, because what the enemy doesn't want you to do the thing that feels unmentionable. He doesn't want you to say it because, you know, the way that you own your past is to own it. Like, not to not allow the past to own you. You have to own it. And the way that you own it is confession. You know, James 5:16. There's so many people that they have salvation, but they don't have freedom. You know, freedom is found. James 5. 16. When you confess unto one another, you know there can be a righteous man to pray for you so they can be healed. So there's people that have salvation, but they don't have healing. And it starts with saying, hey, man number one, I'm so proud of you. And if you haven't done that, if you're listening to this and you're in your wrestling with, whether it be pornography or gambling or whatever it is, this behavior that you have become a slave to and you feel like you can't get away from it, the first thing you need to do is to find someone that loves you, that loves Jesus, and confess it all. But what I would say is, it's so easy to be vague when we confess. And that's why, you know, if it's a man, you need to confess to a man, a woman to a woman. Find someone that you trust so that you can be honest, open, and transparent. And what I mean by that is there the level of your confession is going to equate to the depth of your freedom. Because.
- [75:07]
A
Say that again. That's good.
- [75:09]
B
The depth of your confession is going to equate to the depth of your freedom. You know, the. You know, the. And I would just say. Because it's easy to say, you know, I'm. I'm looking at that website I shouldn't look at, and, you know, end up doing something I shouldn't. It's different than saying, this is the website that I go to. This is what I put in the search bar. I masturbate, I feel terrible about it, and sometimes I go back to it and do it again the same night. And I end up crying out to God and saying, I'll never do it again. But I find myself here over and over again. I'm tired. I just want to stop. Because when you say that, sometimes externally processing something out loud, you'll say, well, you know, the. The shame that would cause you not to say what you know you were putting in the search bar is actually evidence of the brokenness that you have in your life. And it's like, man, when you when once you say that, it's like, and. And if you have someone that you trust, it's like, man, you can. You can start to kind of wrap your head around, man, there's something that is broken in my heart or my mind, and porn is just the symptom of a deeper problem. Like, there's. There's something that. Yeah, there's. You know, for me to get the fruit of freedom, I need to get to the root of the problem. And the. The root of the problem is not porn. Like, porn is a byproduct of some other brokenness in my life. Maybe someone hurt you. Maybe you, you know, you saw something that you shouldn't have saw in an early age, and you develop wrong thinking. Maybe, you know, either something was done to you or you did something, or, you know, maybe someone wasn't there for you and you're trying to use porn as a band aid to cover up the thing that really hurts. So it's like, man, that's why there's. There's, you know, the reason that people struggle with porn is. Is an individualistic problem because you've believed a lie about something.
- [77:12]
A
Yeah.
- [77:13]
B
And good. Yeah. So I would say, like, to that person, man number one, I'm so proud of you for having the guts to do the thing that many don't say, hey, I'm. I'm wrestling with this. But now let's be. Let's be honest, because are you struggling or are you willingly, you know, participating in this sin and that? You know, the Bible tells us, you know, God will not, you know, give us anything beyond what we can bear, you know, where it's like, without giving us a way out, you know?
- [77:44]
A
Yeah.
- [77:46]
B
The fact of, you know, we need to take everything captive and make it obedient to Christ, where it's like, I need to develop better emotional intelligence in that when I feel something, I don't have to be a slave to that feeling or emotion.
- [78:00]
A
Right.
- [78:01]
B
And at the same time, I need trusted people in my life. You know, Proverbs 27:6 talks about how, you know the wounds of a friend. Right. I need people in my life that will not only pat me on the back, sometimes I need to kick in the butt, you know?
- [78:15]
A
Yeah.
- [78:15]
B
Sometimes. Sometimes I need to be called out on wrong thinking or wrong behavior. So I would say to that person, man number one, proud of you. Number two, what are you willing to do to get this out of your life?
- [78:31]
A
You know, and usually they'll say, anything, Granger. Anything.
- [78:34]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Or it's like, okay, like, are you. Are you willing to get rid of your iPhone and get a flip phone? Oh, yeah.
- [78:40]
A
That's good. Yeah.
- [78:41]
B
Because. Because what we want to do is the bare minimum, you know?
- [78:44]
A
Right, Right.
- [78:46]
B
I mean, that's. That's Western. That's. That's Western thinking. You know, I don't. I don't want to develop discipline, obedience. I want an app, a pill, or a program.
- [78:57]
A
Yeah.
- [78:58]
B
But everything is. Everything that's worth anything is on the other side of obedience and discipline and consistency. So I would say, you know, what am I. You know, what. What do I need to remove from my life? I need to set. I need to, you know, I need consistent confession in my life. I need to create boundaries in my life. I need to make it harder to get to the thing that I. I don't want to do. Then also, I need to identify triggers where it's like, you know, I. I ended up on the porn site, but it started at Instagram. Maybe Instagram needs to go. Or maybe I need to take inventory of the people that I follow on Instagram and say, hey, if there's something that someone is posting that. That is catalytic in a behavior that leads me in a direction that my life doesn't want to go, well, I need to remove that thing.
- [79:52]
A
Yeah, that's good.
- [79:53]
B
If I. If I don't want any cookie, if I don't want. If I want to lose weight, I don't need to have cookies in my house, you know?
- [80:00]
A
Yeah.
- [80:00]
B
And so I need to take inventory what. What things are catalytic and wrong behaviors, and how can I get as far away from those things? Because, you know that thinking of, well, how. You know, how close to the line can I get without going over it? That's. That's ignorant. Like, why would you do that?
- [80:18]
A
It's foolish. Yeah.
- [80:20]
B
So it's like, how far. Oh, how far can I stay away from something that's going to be catalytic in me doing something I ought not to like? And even when I'm a fool, I need to. I need to admit and learn from what I did. Like, if I continue to trip over the same thing over and over again and I don't look down and don't realize, hey, there is this thing that I keep tripping over, it needs to be removed. Or I need another direction.
- [80:46]
A
Right.
- [80:46]
B
I don't need to move this way. Then I'm being, you know, foolish on myself. So I need boundaries. I need to identify triggers, and I need to commit to being honest with someone. And I would say, what's even most important. And in the same way that God used Moses to lead his people out of Egypt out of, you know, he lead the Israelites out of Egypt, God used the law to get Egypt out of them. The Bible. You know, if you are committed to prayer and reading God's word, what happens is, you know, the word of God is a two edged sword, divides bone and marrow. And what's going to happen is you're going to read God's word and it's going to conflict with how you're living. It's going to feel abrasive and that's a good thing. But what I need to do is not shun away when I'm challenged. I need to step into what God is calling me to. And what, that's what he's calling you to is man. I'm going to be responsible for my actions and I'm going to execute, you know, the thing that the last thing in the fruit of the spirit because, because I have the spirit of God living in me. Guess what I have. I have the spirit of self control. I don't have to be a slave to sin anymore. I can choose to say even if I want to do it. I'm not. That's what Christian liberty is. It's not what can I, what can I have access to doing? No. I have the power to say no to the things I even want to do. So like that, that's how you get there. So number like that's what I would say to the kid. I'm so proud, so proud of you. But man, you can't. Like, you can't stop doing something you've been doing for 10 years in 30 minutes or 30 days. You need to make a plan, a battle plan of how do I want to, you know, how can I become the person that I want to be? Well, I need to take inventory. I need to set boundaries. I need to create some core values that I'm committed to because I'm not going to do what I want. I'm going to do what I'm committed to do. You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the man that I'm committed to being. So part of that is there's a list of things where these are priorities in my life and they're not because of me, they're because of God and God's word. So I'm gonna use those things as a tool to compare and Contrast again. Romans 12:2. I'm gonna compare in contrast. Is this beneficial? Is this gonna be Edifying for me, or is it gonna lead me in the wrong direction? Is this gonna cause me to take 10 steps back?
- [83:20]
A
You know, Brilliant dude, you. Hey, Joshua, you were a man of integrity. How crazy is it to hear that. That title that.
- [83:34]
B
I don't know, man, it's just like. Like being the man that I am now, I like, it's. It's, you know, it's. It's a miracle, you know, to. To our. Any cessationist friend I have out there, I'm like, if. If miracles. If miracles are done, I'm dead. I'm dead. Yeah, I'm. I'm certainly not consistently teaching. You know, I'm. I'm speaking at two marriage conferences this month. It's like, how crazy. Like, and it's like, like, how. Well, it's like, I committed to following Jesus with all of my life, and then also I committed to loving my wife with all of my wife, but in, like, all of my life, but in the way that Scripture calls me to.
- [84:27]
A
Right?
- [84:28]
B
And, you know, and the byproduct of that is like, I. I learned a lot of, like, things of not to do. Where it's like, that's where I'm going to start. I'm like, this is wrong thinking. But again, it's like, you know, I share this in the beginning. It's like, man, love has nothing to do. And intimacy certainly has nothing to do with compliance.
- [84:48]
A
Yeah.
- [84:49]
B
It's like, man, because there's. There's. There's so many things that we learn wrongly because of. Because of sin, specifically because of pornography. It's like, man, if I'm trying to superimpose onto the person that I say that I'm dedicated to loving most, if I'm superimposing desires that I developed from a screen with my hand when I was a teenager, if I'm superimposing those things on my wife, is that love? Certainly not. So it's like. And then I can get upset with my spouse because she's not meeting my needs. Is she not meeting your needs? Or are you trapped in perversion? Because what. What actually needs to happen is your mind needs to be eradicated to the perversion so that you can understand what love is, so that you can experience it and then you can reciprocate it.
- [85:40]
A
And what's amazing is now the Lord is using you to speak into the lives of so many other people with a perspective that is very, very rare. Last thing I'll say. Do you keep in touch with anybody from that industry? Has Anyone come out of the industry and said, hey, I need to talk. Josh, I need to talk.
- [85:59]
B
Hundreds.
- [85:59]
A
Wow.
- [86:01]
B
And then, I mean, unfortunately, a lot of those. A lot of those situations, like, didn't end up like I hoped.
- [86:10]
A
Yeah, of course. That's because it's a miracle.
- [86:13]
B
Yeah. Because, I mean, I. I know two girls that have a life where they're healthy and whole, and it's because they're in. They're deeply rooted in a relationship with Jesus Christ. But, man, I don't. I don't know one man, not one man that was in the industry as long as I was, that came out that's. It's healthy and whole. But there's. There's tons of guys that are still in the industry that, you know, at one time, you know, they. They looked up to me to say, hey, how can I become like him? But what I love is there's. There's a lot of people that are, you know, that. That either text me or message me, and they're like, man, how did you get to where you are? And what they mean is that how do you get to a place where at night, you lay your head down on the pillow and you close your eyes and you're proud of the man that you are? Because, I mean, you know, this. It doesn't matter what you have. If you don't have the thing that you need most, which is a relationship with Jesus, there is going to be chaos in your soul.
- [87:25]
A
Yeah.
- [87:26]
B
And there's going to be nothing that can fill that void. So for me, it's like, man, there was a. There was a lot of things that have happened, you know, over this last decade of me following Jesus, but, like, the. The most true and most simple solution to the thing, that whatever someone is struggling with his man, fully surrender your life to Jesus. Like, lay it all down.
- [87:57]
A
Yeah.
- [87:57]
B
Like, all of the. All of the hurt, all of the pride. Like, all of it. And what's beautiful is Romans 8:28. Like, all means all. Like, he will use, like, the, you know, the worst of the worst and the best of the best, and he's going to take it all, and he's going to put it in this. This pot, and what's going to come out of it is going to blow your mind, but it's all going to be for his glory. He's going to use it all. And that's what I love. Like, there's nothing that, you know, there's no training or experiences or places that I've traveled. There's tons of Things that, like, man, obviously I shouldn't have done so many things that I've did, but in spite of me, God uses all of it, and nothing is wasted in his economy. You know, with. When we surrender and submit our lives to the person of Jesus, like Romans 8:28, is it, man, that he's going to use all things for his glory, for those who love Him So.
- [88:54]
A
Amen. I. I don't think there's a better way to end the conversation. Porn star to preacher explained best by Paul's letter to the Romans. That's what conversation's been, bro. I love you so much, man. And I love this conversation. I love you as a brother in Christ. And maybe we could have another one. I feel like we could have an entirely new conversation about different things.
- [89:22]
B
Oh, yeah. We didn't even get to.
- [89:24]
A
There's so much we didn't get to.
- [89:25]
B
Also, also, I. I know this is, like, far out, but Zach wanted me to ask you if you were good when you were in Lynchburg, if. If me, you, and him could sit down and do a podcast.
- [89:37]
A
Absolutely.
- [89:38]
B
Cool.
- [89:38]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely, man. We. We also didn't get into your book, which is incredible and so helpful. We share. We share publisher on that as well.
- [89:52]
B
Yeah.
- [89:52]
A
What are the seven lies off the top of your head?
- [89:55]
B
Yeah, I mean, the. The one. The two that I talked to most that talk about the most are purpose and intimacy. But I would say, like, that, like, the intimacy one is like the most important one. I would say, like, the count. Like this counterfeit intimacy, this imitation intimacy. Like that. That's what I'm preaching on this whole year. Because the. The thing in which, like, if you. If you find the thing that you. Your heart is. Is just yearning for.
- [90:21]
A
Yeah.
- [90:21]
B
Which is connection with God the Father, through the person of Jesus Christ. And, like, fully step into being sensitive to the spirit of God, man. The. The. That's where, like, if you understand, like, in the fullness of the Trinity, like, how much God just absolutely adores you and wants to equip you to. To walk in abundance in this world. Like, that's where it's at. And we just. We settle for so many imitations. But real intimacy, true intimacy is found in proximity to God. And that's, you know, that's. That's what I want people to understand. It's like the last. The last chapter, if I even talk about it, that would be a whole other tangent. But it's like, it's.
- [91:01]
A
Yeah. Because I think, you know, seven lies that'll ruin your life. We could go on. We could use each lie and make a different podcast and have a whole new discussion. But. But I think that. That. That'll be for another time.
- [91:13]
B
Yeah.
- [91:14]
A
I love you, bro. I'll see you in a few months, too.
- [91:17]
B
Yeah, man. Love you, bro. So good to see you.
- [91:18]
A
You too. Thank you. Thanks for joining me on the Granger Smith podcast. I appreciate all of you guys. You could help me out by rating this podcast on itunes. If you're on YouTube, subscribe to this channel. Hit that little, like, button and notifications bell so that you never miss anytime I upload a video.